I used to buy 2-3 PlayStation games per week from 1995-1999. I basically bought almost every game released in that time period. As soon as I got into EverQuest beta, I never bought a console game ever again lol. I've saved a small fortune playing MMOGS. 15 bucks a month is the best pound for pound entertainment deal on the planet. I don't play any silly F2P games with micro transactions so I've never spent a single penny outside my subs. Love it!
2-3 games per week for 4 years?? 208 (weeks) x 2 (games) = 414 ps games!!!!! Where do you keep them?
Methinks that many of you are missing the point. Yes, MMOs are cheaper than movies, cable TV, beer, whores, etc.... And yes, the cost of one, and exactly one, MMO isn't going to drive anyone to bankruptcy.... BUT how much value do MMOs deliver in comparison to OTHER GAMES? It's not an unreasonable question. Consider the fact that I bought The Orange Box almost a year ago, haven't paid anything since and I still play TF2. CoD4 has been out for over a year and there are still people playing the hell out of it. You can buy Battlefield 2 and all of its expansions for $30 and there are still tons of people playing the game regularly. Hell, Madden players drop $50 a year for an entire year of playing. BTW, there are still people playing the original Neverwinter Nights. There are still people playing Quake 3. There are still people playing Dawn of War. None of those games have a monthly fee. Pay once, play forever. Since I normally only play games online and don't bother with single player games, I only buy about three or four games a year. To make it even cheaper, I buy used and rent games. You can't do either with an MMO. From the pure numbers, MMOs are a giant waste of cash when compared to other genres of games.
Value is subjective. People determine for themselves what is a value and what is not. If people enjoy one game over another and it provides them the level and quality of entertainment they desire, then it would obviously be of greater value than one that doesn't.
MMORPGs are not a ripoff for those who enjoy the entertainment they bring over other forms of entertainment.
I buy maybe two games a year off Steam and that's it.
I got rid of my TV since I get all my news & movies online (yes, legally)
That also means no cable / satellite bill (except for internet access)
So it saves me quite a bit of money. But I don't like to rent and I don't like non-persistent online games. It has different value for different people.
Right........... However if you're a "gamer" then youw ill be buying all the other games so the whole it saves you money argument doesn't hold up. If I'm going to be paying a monthly sub then I expect that to include services like character transfers and expansions/content for free. What pisses me off again is when they feel the need to add in micro transactions and in game advertising even though we're paying for all the other stuff.
So really; - One paid subscription where everythign else is free
Or
- Subscription free but make us pay for all the other stuff.
Currently everyones being ripped off because they do all of them at the same time.
I also find the argument of having 30 days of entertainment funny because really you don't play each and every day cause not only does that make for a sad life but it's impossible. Also I could play Left 4 Dead for the same amount of time as an mmorpg and I'm not being charged anything and when new content comes out I wont be charged for that too. Yet oh look L4D has given me more value for money than any movie or whatever so :S I think that argument is abit dumb.
I could play The Helicopter game for 30 days and thats free.
Why oh why exactly do you think character name changes or transfers should be "included in the subscription fee"? where does it reads? What other games offer such services for free?
As for "micro-transactions", you cannot really compare TCG to that right? Well, I am not familiar with SWG's TCG, but WoW's one is not even handled by Blizzard, but by a third party company and all the stuff you get from the cards is just nice fluff.
Yeah, you can go on a rocket or get yourself a picnic umbrealla, but you do not really get anything that affect the game mechanics, just stuff you could get normally, only looking different.
And yes, you could play Left 4 Dead for way cheaper than a MMo, but how much content are you getting added to left 4 dead mmmh? I mean, from the company, not from fan mods that are free? Yes, everyone patches their game, but Single Player games rarely add content and when they do, it is in minimal form.
MMOs, hell entire new dungeons, regions or even gameplay types get added with free patches every month!
so in the end, no, I do not feel ripped off my 13 euros a month.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
The OP makes an interesting point, and I think people are mixing apples and oranges (please see above posts comparing playing World of Warcraft to eating dinner, which is a necessity).
The retail price in addition to monthly fee amounts to an expensive game - and customers should rightfully expect more when a monthly fee is levied. Speaking for myself, though price is a minor (minor) factor, I am about to quit MMORPGs altogether because I have not found one with with the creativity, depth, sophistication, and immersion that Everquest (the original had). In fact, I have multiple accounts at Everquest - but this title has been dry since the game became raid-focused, anti-community guild, and abandoned challenging/rewarding group gameplay.
The "new" MMORPGs are not worth the retail price, let alone 15.00 a month for me to (1) grind and (2) raid.
Edit
I would gladly (glady) pay 15.00 if a game had world immersion, character customization, deep/optional Questing, and more.
Today, these developers/companies want me to pay retail and 15.00 a month to (1) grind and (2) raid or (3) PvP - and I dislike ALL three.I want to (1) customize my character; (2) explore a world; and (3) participate in deep, but optional, Quests. I will pay you for that.
Been there. Done that. What happened to innovation (player empowerment, evolving world)?
Aside
Briefly, linear gameplay is intellectualyl offensive because it limits options (and freedom) and makes gamers feel stupid; some of us want to develop, explore, and "build" our characters in a unique, and authentic, way.
I have not bought an MMORPG since Vanguard - and I am a "gamer." I used to buy them all just to try them for a month. Not anymore. I am wiser consumer in this industry.
Me subscribing 4 ppl to an MMO so me and my family/friends can play together? $60.
Buying a newly released video game, one copy for myself solo? $50-60
Buying a newly released video game, 4 copies, for everyone? $200-240.
Average lifespan of a video game for me? Two weeks to One month.
Result? MMORPG's are EXTREMELY cheap. I can subscribe to FOUR MMO's for the price of ONE PS3 or PC game...
In fact... I can't, or atleast dont want to, spend as much as $100 a month just to play ONE video game with me and one other friend/family. $50 is a lot to spend, and I dont want to just cash out $100 on a whim every 2-4 weeks on a game I may or may not play for very long.
Miniature games? To buy one of those- atleast $80 for EACH player's army. 80xPlayers = Expensive.
RPG's? Rulebooks are usually $30-40, and with atleast two supplements, thats $40-70 more. To play one PnP RPG nicely, thats $70-$110.
With MMO's, I can try them first for 7-14 days, then subscribe 4 players for only $60. That's Extremely. Extremely. Extremely cheap.
I may not be "every man", but I am the only one who has the money to spend on entertainment (friend and nephew dont have the money) and I also am always the one who has to spearhead the idea to them, or else we'd simply only play free, boring, flash games or SNES Roms all day, lol.
So since I have to spearhead the idea, everyone else is rather apathetic or otherwise boring, I have to provide for everything we do. Miniature gaming cost me HUNDREDS, PC games cost me $100-150 minimum, console games are mostly singleplayer, PnP RPG's cost a good amount plus TONS of time reading and studying, going out to eat can cost $30 for just two ppl...
MMORPG's are $15 each, w/ a trial. That is the CHEAPEST form of entertainment there is for me. Not just that, but it provides the most time entertaining. So not just the cheapest, but the most efficient for the $/Time ratio.
BTW, few MMORPG's are hyped enough for me to buy them when they come out (costing $35 + 15 for the free month, $50)
Ive been around MMORPG's since UO and EQ, and it is always the same. The price of the box goes down very quickly to $30, and then even sooner disappears to a free trial + $15 subscription, or a free trial + $10-20 box charge, and with the free first month, it equates to an extra $5 at most, or a minimum of $10 for the first month and $15 afterwards.
That means after a short while, MMO's would only cost me $40 for 6 weeks of subscription for FOUR people. $10x4 (box, which includes 1 free month) + 14 day trial.
Originally posted by ArchAngel102 Average lifespan of a video game for me? Two weeks to One month.
Result? MMORPG's are EXTREMELY cheap. I can subscribe to FOUR MMO's for the price of ONE PS3 or PC game...
You are playing the wrong games. Ha, ha ha! Aside: I wish people with your "financial logic" would shop at my brother's online store more.
I play Warcraft III online, for free, in fact playing as I type this. I play online regularly. The game is timeless, and players can customize all sorts of maps from roleplaying to PvP style to more strategy - you name it.
I also play CoD online. I continuously play Sim City as well. My games have a much (much) longer lifespan than yours.
See I still don't get the logic of saying "they're cheap because they give me a whole months play time for only $15 when I would be buying games for $40 so I'm saving money"...... No you're buying games anyways cause when a Fallout is released or a GTA is released then you go out and buy them, so I don't really see how the argument holds up. If you're not chosing to buy games and only play WOW or something then developers are right WOW is killing PC gaming, I just don't see how that can be the case when you love to play games and will buy other games.
You could play GTA4 for a month or CS or Fallout 3 and you're not paying a monthly fee. So does that give them the right to charge me a monthly fee? Just because Valve are putting new content in TF2 and L4D does that give them the right to charge me a monthly fee and I should feel privileged they're doing so because somehow it's saving me money? No all it's doing is costing you money.
Now publishers are getting smarter and realising that people will throw money away because they're stupid. So they're starting to put micro transactions in the game which you can't get these items unless you pay extra for them like loot cards in SWG. So you're telling me I have to pay a subscription and on top of that I have to spend MORE money to get extra stuff? In EQ2 SOE charged you extra for that EQ2 players service and then charged you for content that should have been free with Adventure packs.
the difference is (lets use COD4 for example) i bought it when it came out $50-60 dollars. 1 week later, i beat it, and the story ends, no further continuing or content (unless you mod it, but lets keep it to base products distributed by the developer just like mmorpgs).
Now, i beat it, great, 1 week, probably only 6 game hours and i blew threw the content. Fine. Lets take it online!. How long will it be until you see every board? say you only play 1 scenario/board a day. The game will last you what? another 3 weeks? Now, you have seen/done every board/scenario there is. Now its time to repeat it all over again, over and over, repeatedly.
MMORPGs, unlike console games, will have a staying power of NEW content/additions which are included into monthly subs. Look at games like LOTRO, WoW, EQ2, etc, where they add, even if it is just a region/zone/dungeon every 2 or 3 months, they are still supplying you with new content. And take into affect, that say you play COD4 for 1 game hour a day, you could logically beat it in a week or 2 (tops). How long until, in an mmorpg, you see all the content in MOST mmorpgs (i say most cause there is the occasional screwball mmorpg with no content) playing the same amount of time?
The worlds, time, playability, content differences are huge. And like stated, i am not talking about modding, cause you really cant mod content in mmorpgs, so i am trying to keep the playing field even.
You're also paying to use their servers to play the game. I mean, those aren't free to run. Other games that you play aren't hosted on the company's servers.
There is more content released in MMOs than other games. If you look at a game like Fallout 3 for example, its a great game. There's a whole lot you can do in the game but once you finish that its done. You don't get to help a friend accomplish anything. You play by yourself, and once you've done everything thats it. Now, they're releasing DLC for Fallout, but guess what? You have to pay for it.
I just don't really understand your logic complaining about paying to use their servers to play a game. Paying so they can continue to update a game and try to balance things at a regular pace. Can you really name one game that isn't a MMO that has released as much new content without an expansion as LOTRO?
$200 bucks to play an MMO for an entire year, thats really gonna break the bank lmfao. I'm having a hard enough time finding an MMO to play let alone caring about such a paltry cost for a hobby.
I spend $200 bucks drinking piss on a saturday night.
I think it isnt much. If you like it, you dont give up your life for it, so be it.. Hobby like all others. Other hobbies are really more rip-off: week of skiing cost much more then 200$ (or smth like that). That only ONE WEEK!. That was just example.. There is many morie hobbies which cost which cost more.
There isnt much discussion here... Simply there is 2 sides and each have their view. It is imposibble to prove one right. I would gladly pay 200$/month if it would give me enough excitment and satisfaction...
As an above poster stated, it is only a rip-off if you are paying for something you do not enjoy. I only consider things 'rip-offs' if they are essential to everyday living (food, fuel, heating etc.)
MMO's are a hobby and therefore it is down to the discretion of the customer whether or not they pay for the service. The only people that moan about MMO's being a rip-off are people who can't live without them and can't afford the sub. And that's just sad.
on the one hand i agree with the op and i would expect every mmo company to invest at least 1/3rd of the monthly fee in free content. and i dont mean balancing some statistics or fixing bugs that shouldnt be in there the 1st place. also they force you to pay if you want to play at all so after the initial free month they kind of kidnapped your game and even if they do not develope new content you are forced to pay them if you want to play the game wich isnt the case with single player games.
on the other hand i too see that i get a lot more value from mmo then from classic games. if i compare age of conan for example with many conan games bevore (mostly jump & run/ hack & slash) aoc offers a lot more content even compared to modern single player games like tomb raider or prince of persia.
if your bored, visit my blog at: http://craylon.wordpress.com/ dealing with the look of mmos with the nvidia 3d vision glasses
So, you're saying it costs me like $230 per year to play MMORPG's for an unlimited amount of time? Yep, sounds like a pretty bad deal to me. When will you learn that there isn't an amount of money that Blizzard 'deserves' to earn. (or not earn). They deserve to earn as much as they can milk out of their customer base. If they could double the rates tomorrow and have everyone still pay for it, they would deserve it. Its called free market capitalism and its how our economy works. Now, my game, EVE does not charge me for expansions, so I guess I get a better deal? But that's not why I play, nor would I care if they did charge, its just a nice perc. In fact, if I was so motivated, I could go out and sell time cards for ISK , and spend even more money on this game. Doesn't bother me a bit. MMO's are the best entertainment value out there today, (cost me more to take my wife and son to the movies (40 bucks) last night than almost all 3 of my EVE subs for the month.
Just want to echo some of what Kyleran says here. Subscription fees are what the market will currently bare. There's really not much more to the issue really.
Besides, imo, $15 per month is relatively cheap considering the amount of entertainment I receive in return. You can't sneeze in a bar for less than that, and that's just one evening. For that amount, I get a fun reliable game I can play with thousands of other people.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
$15 a month = $180 a year + retail cost and yet you're expected to pay for expansions even though people like Valve can keep updating their games without a monthly fee. Then on top of all that there are the micro transactions like the whole TCG type thing in mmorpgs such as SWG where if you want certain in game items the only way you're able to get them is by paying until you're lucky enough to get it. Not only that but you're paying for features that should come as standard with your monthly fee like what WOW charges you for like changing your character name or transfering your character to another server. I mean to me that is something that you expect as part of the service you want under you montly fee and a standard feature you would want in mmorpgs. Most the time you meet people who play the same game as you but you're normally on different servers and yet your subscription fee doesn't cover that : People say oh but that $15 goes towards server charges..... WOW makes over $1 billion a year so really they probbaly could charge everyone $5 a month and still be making more than enough. Yet soon we're going to enter in the territory where these companies start charging you $15 a month + retail + expansions + in game advertising + micro transactions + anything else they can think of and when are people going to say I've had enough of being taken a fool of? Guild Wars can survive without subscripton fee's so why don#t everyone else frop them if they expect us to pay for all this other crap? They still host every single server and still have to host every instance.
If you think it is a rip off, don't pay and don't play. It is a free market. Obviously Blizzard and many have shown that whatever they are charging is NOT driving customers away. There is no reason why they should lower the price if they can get away with this one.
Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe Methinks that many of you are missing the point. Yes, MMOs are cheaper than movies, cable TV, beer, whores, etc.... And yes, the cost of one, and exactly one, MMO isn't going to drive anyone to bankruptcy.... BUT how much value do MMOs deliver in comparison to OTHER GAMES? It's not an unreasonable question. Consider the fact that I bought The Orange Box almost a year ago, haven't paid anything since and I still play TF2. CoD4 has been out for over a year and there are still people playing the hell out of it. You can buy Battlefield 2 and all of its expansions for $30 and there are still tons of people playing the game regularly. Hell, Madden players drop $50 a year for an entire year of playing. BTW, there are still people playing the original Neverwinter Nights. There are still people playing Quake 3. There are still people playing Dawn of War. None of those games have a monthly fee. Pay once, play forever. Since I normally only play games online and don't bother with single player games, I only buy about three or four games a year. To make it even cheaper, I buy used and rent games. You can't do either with an MMO. From the pure numbers, MMOs are a giant waste of cash when compared to other genres of games.
You can't compare Valve to MMO developers.
Most of the servers we play Valve games on are owned by game communities (www.5e-community.com for instance)and not Valve themselves. They don't have near the overhead that an MMO developer has.
Also Valve is also a distributor. They have other streams of income to offset the need for a monthly subscription. Most of the games on Steam are not made by Valve yet they get a nice percentage of all the games purchased through them.
Valve games are tiny in relation to MMO's. Look at TF2. Tiny maps. So they made some tiny maps slapped together some animations and poof they make money. Most MMO's are huge. They have 1000's of servers in their server farm. It takes alot of techs to keep all that running, patched and customers happy. The overhead is expensive.
Now that said. $15 month is not that much. If Valve could get people to pay that.. they would!
Let's compare the costs of a typical MMO game versus the costs of a game that has a high degree of replayability:
Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided $50x2= $100
Jump to Lightspeed $30x2= $60
Rage of the Wookiees $30x2= $60
Subs account 1: 27mox$15= $405
Subs account 2: 24mox$15= $360
________________________________
Total: $885
Compare that with Sim City IV, which I purchased a few months earlier:
Sim City IV: $50
Rush Hour: $30
__________________
Total: $80
Or a game I purchased after SWG:
Rome: Total War: $50
Barbarian Invasion: $30
___________________
Total: $80
These games are just as good to play and as challenging as when I bought them. SWG, however, was changeed against my will into something I don't even know how to play anymore. So I paid ten times the price for my SWG experience as I did for my Sim City IV or Rome: Total War experience, but got less than half of the amount of play value out of SWG, because of the MMO developers need to mess with my software.
Value is indeed subjective, but the shelf life of the software is not. MMOs are by their nature short lived, because once the publisher quits supporting the game, the software is useless. I'm sure Tabula Rasa fans or Asheron's Call II fans would love to keep on playing the games they enjoy, but this isn't within their power to decide. Just think about how much money they could save if they found a game they could enjoy for just as long of a time for just the box price?
So, in short, MMOs are indeed a ripoff, because you pay a lot more for this version of computer entertainment, and have absolutely no say when or if it will be continually available for your enjoyment. You pay much more, and get much less say over what you get.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Beatnik59 I agree with the OP: MMOs are complete rip offs. Let's compare the costs of a typical MMO game versus the costs of a game that has a high degree of replayability: Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided $50x2= $100 Jump to Lightspeed $30x2= $60 Rage of the Wookiees $30x2= $60 Subs account 1: 27mox$15= $405 Subs account 2: 24mox$15= $360 ________________________________ Total: $885Compare that with Sim City IV, which I purchased a few months earlier: Sim City IV: $50 Rush Hour: $30 __________________ Total: $80
Or a game I purchased after SWG: Rome: Total War: $50 Barbarian Invasion: $30 ___________________ Total: $80 These games are just as good to play and as challenging as when I bought them. SWG, however, was changeed against my will into something I don't even know how to play anymore. So I paid ten times the price for my SWG experience as I did for my Sim City IV or Rome: Total War experience, but got less than half of the amount of play value out of SWG, because of the MMO developers need to mess with my software. Value is indeed subjective, but the shelf life of the software is not. MMOs are by their nature short lived, because once the publisher quits supporting the game, the software is useless. I'm sure Tabula Rasa fans or Asheron's Call II fans would love to keep on playing the games they enjoy, but this isn't within their power to decide. Just think about how much money they could save if they found a game they could enjoy for just as long of a time for just the box price? So, in short, MMOs are indeed a ripoff, because you pay a lot more for this version of computer entertainment, and have absolutely no say when or if it will be continually available for your enjoyment. You pay much more, and get much less say over what you get.
EQ has been going for 10 years. SOE still supports it and still releases expansions. Show me 1 game out of the box without monthly fees that matches that?
People are saying MMOs last longer than other games, but thats just because they dilute content through level-grind.
Its like going to a bar, paying 15 dollars for a gyn tonic and find that the gyn has been waterd down.
I think people are forgeting about property. Its like the blue rays, you don't buy the disk, you just "rent" the tecnology from sony
Just think about it, you have already paid for the game box, the same amount you could have payed for any single player game, but after the first month you have yo continue paying if you wan't to playing. Why did you have to pay for the box then? Its not like you can continue playing ofline, neither you can start your own server (like with neverwinter)
Also, i remember back then, when WoW was about to be released many people thought that paying monthly for an game was insane. To counter this WoW promised an "evolving" world (it was in the box) in which content would be added on a regular basis, still most of WoW patches have been to adress balance issues, which should have been fixed from the beginning. (for the 1º year there wasn't really new content added and after that, only a camp here and there where added)
It should be worth mentioning LOTRO, which is kinda faithfull to its players and has expanded with many new features that didn't ask for extra money, like housing or being able to dress as you like.
Its funny how in this modern times companies can screw their customers demanding more and more from them and striping them from the rights of owning what they have paid for, and people is still happy to accept the companies terms, instead of rising against them claming that, after all "The customer is always right".
Originally posted by bluesession People are saying MMOs last longer than other games, but thats just because they dilute content through level-grind. Its like going to a bar, paying 15 dollars for a gyn tonic and find that the gyn has been waterd down.
I think people are forgeting about property. Its like the blue rays, you don't buy the disk, you just "rent" the tecnology from sony Just think about it, you have already paid for the game box, the same amount you could have payed for any single player game, but after the first month you have yo continue paying if you wan't to playing. Why did you have to pay for the box then? Its not like you can continue playing ofline, neither you can start your own server (like with neverwinter)
Also, i remember back then, when WoW was about to be released many people thought that paying monthly for an game was insane. To counter this WoW promised an "evolving" world (it was in the box) in which content would be added on a regular basis, still most of WoW patches have been to adress balance issues, which should have been fixed from the beginning. (for the 1º year there wasn't really new content added and after that, only a camp here and there where added)
It should be worth mentioning LOTRO, which is kinda faithfull to its players and has expanded with many new features that didn't ask for extra money, like housing or being able to dress as you like.
Its funny how in this modern times companies can screw their customers demanding more and more from them and striping them from the rights of owning what they have paid for, and people is still happy to accept the companies terms, instead of rising against them claming that, after all "The customer is always right".
No.. i buy the blu-ray discs then download the movies and burn them myself.. i own them usually just after they hit the big screen
Seriously at $10 a ticket they are asking for it... nay begging for it.
People are saying MMOs last longer than other games, but thats just because they dilute content through level-grind.
Its like going to a bar, paying 15 dollars for a gyn tonic and find that the gyn has been waterd down.
I think people are forgeting about property. Its like the blue rays, you don't buy the disk, you just "rent" the tecnology from sony
Just think about it, you have already paid for the game box, the same amount you could have payed for any single player game, but after the first month you have yo continue paying if you wan't to playing. Why did you have to pay for the box then? Its not like you can continue playing ofline, neither you can start your own server (like with neverwinter)
Also, i remember back then, when WoW was about to be released many people thought that paying monthly for an game was insane. To counter this WoW promised an "evolving" world (it was in the box) in which content would be added on a regular basis, still most of WoW patches have been to adress balance issues, which should have been fixed from the beginning. (for the 1º year there wasn't really new content added and after that, only a camp here and there where added)
It should be worth mentioning LOTRO, which is kinda faithfull to its players and has expanded with many new features that didn't ask for extra money, like housing or being able to dress as you like.
Its funny how in this modern times companies can screw their customers demanding more and more from them and striping them from the rights of owning what they have paid for, and people is still happy to accept the companies terms, instead of rising against them claming that, after all "The customer is always right".
No.. i buy the blu-ray discs then download the movies and burn them myself.. i own them usually just after they hit the big screen
Seriously at $10 a ticket they are asking for it... nay begging for it.
I prefer getting them a week or so BEFORE they hit the big screen, myself.
Comments
Trolls = Hardcore
Fanbois = Carebears
The only posts I read in threads are my own.
Value is subjective. People determine for themselves what is a value and what is not. If people enjoy one game over another and it provides them the level and quality of entertainment they desire, then it would obviously be of greater value than one that doesn't.
MMORPGs are not a ripoff for those who enjoy the entertainment they bring over other forms of entertainment.
MMOs actually save me a great deal of money.
I pay $220 a year for two Eve subs.
So it saves me quite a bit of money. But I don't like to rent and I don't like non-persistent online games. It has different value for different people.
Why oh why exactly do you think character name changes or transfers should be "included in the subscription fee"? where does it reads? What other games offer such services for free?
As for "micro-transactions", you cannot really compare TCG to that right? Well, I am not familiar with SWG's TCG, but WoW's one is not even handled by Blizzard, but by a third party company and all the stuff you get from the cards is just nice fluff.
Yeah, you can go on a rocket or get yourself a picnic umbrealla, but you do not really get anything that affect the game mechanics, just stuff you could get normally, only looking different.
And yes, you could play Left 4 Dead for way cheaper than a MMo, but how much content are you getting added to left 4 dead mmmh? I mean, from the company, not from fan mods that are free? Yes, everyone patches their game, but Single Player games rarely add content and when they do, it is in minimal form.
MMOs, hell entire new dungeons, regions or even gameplay types get added with free patches every month!
so in the end, no, I do not feel ripped off my 13 euros a month.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
The OP makes an interesting point, and I think people are mixing apples and oranges (please see above posts comparing playing World of Warcraft to eating dinner, which is a necessity).
The retail price in addition to monthly fee amounts to an expensive game - and customers should rightfully expect more when a monthly fee is levied. Speaking for myself, though price is a minor (minor) factor, I am about to quit MMORPGs altogether because I have not found one with with the creativity, depth, sophistication, and immersion that Everquest (the original had). In fact, I have multiple accounts at Everquest - but this title has been dry since the game became raid-focused, anti-community guild, and abandoned challenging/rewarding group gameplay.
The "new" MMORPGs are not worth the retail price, let alone 15.00 a month for me to (1) grind and (2) raid.
Edit
I would gladly (glady) pay 15.00 if a game had world immersion, character customization, deep/optional Questing, and more.
Today, these developers/companies want me to pay retail and 15.00 a month to (1) grind and (2) raid or (3) PvP - and I dislike ALL three.I want to (1) customize my character; (2) explore a world; and (3) participate in deep, but optional, Quests. I will pay you for that.
Been there. Done that. What happened to innovation (player empowerment, evolving world)?
Aside
Briefly, linear gameplay is intellectualyl offensive because it limits options (and freedom) and makes gamers feel stupid; some of us want to develop, explore, and "build" our characters in a unique, and authentic, way.
I have not bought an MMORPG since Vanguard - and I am a "gamer." I used to buy them all just to try them for a month. Not anymore. I am wiser consumer in this industry.
These companies will not fool me - again.
Me subscribing 4 ppl to an MMO so me and my family/friends can play together? $60.
Buying a newly released video game, one copy for myself solo? $50-60
Buying a newly released video game, 4 copies, for everyone? $200-240.
Average lifespan of a video game for me? Two weeks to One month.
Result? MMORPG's are EXTREMELY cheap. I can subscribe to FOUR MMO's for the price of ONE PS3 or PC game...
In fact... I can't, or atleast dont want to, spend as much as $100 a month just to play ONE video game with me and one other friend/family. $50 is a lot to spend, and I dont want to just cash out $100 on a whim every 2-4 weeks on a game I may or may not play for very long.
Miniature games? To buy one of those- atleast $80 for EACH player's army. 80xPlayers = Expensive.
RPG's? Rulebooks are usually $30-40, and with atleast two supplements, thats $40-70 more. To play one PnP RPG nicely, thats $70-$110.
With MMO's, I can try them first for 7-14 days, then subscribe 4 players for only $60. That's Extremely. Extremely. Extremely cheap.
I may not be "every man", but I am the only one who has the money to spend on entertainment (friend and nephew dont have the money) and I also am always the one who has to spearhead the idea to them, or else we'd simply only play free, boring, flash games or SNES Roms all day, lol.
So since I have to spearhead the idea, everyone else is rather apathetic or otherwise boring, I have to provide for everything we do. Miniature gaming cost me HUNDREDS, PC games cost me $100-150 minimum, console games are mostly singleplayer, PnP RPG's cost a good amount plus TONS of time reading and studying, going out to eat can cost $30 for just two ppl...
MMORPG's are $15 each, w/ a trial. That is the CHEAPEST form of entertainment there is for me. Not just that, but it provides the most time entertaining. So not just the cheapest, but the most efficient for the $/Time ratio.
BTW, few MMORPG's are hyped enough for me to buy them when they come out (costing $35 + 15 for the free month, $50)
Ive been around MMORPG's since UO and EQ, and it is always the same. The price of the box goes down very quickly to $30, and then even sooner disappears to a free trial + $15 subscription, or a free trial + $10-20 box charge, and with the free first month, it equates to an extra $5 at most, or a minimum of $10 for the first month and $15 afterwards.
That means after a short while, MMO's would only cost me $40 for 6 weeks of subscription for FOUR people. $10x4 (box, which includes 1 free month) + 14 day trial.
Talk about CHEAP!
You are playing the wrong games. Ha, ha ha! Aside: I wish people with your "financial logic" would shop at my brother's online store more.
I play Warcraft III online, for free, in fact playing as I type this. I play online regularly. The game is timeless, and players can customize all sorts of maps from roleplaying to PvP style to more strategy - you name it.
I also play CoD online. I continuously play Sim City as well. My games have a much (much) longer lifespan than yours.
See I still don't get the logic of saying "they're cheap because they give me a whole months play time for only $15 when I would be buying games for $40 so I'm saving money"...... No you're buying games anyways cause when a Fallout is released or a GTA is released then you go out and buy them, so I don't really see how the argument holds up. If you're not chosing to buy games and only play WOW or something then developers are right WOW is killing PC gaming, I just don't see how that can be the case when you love to play games and will buy other games.
You could play GTA4 for a month or CS or Fallout 3 and you're not paying a monthly fee. So does that give them the right to charge me a monthly fee? Just because Valve are putting new content in TF2 and L4D does that give them the right to charge me a monthly fee and I should feel privileged they're doing so because somehow it's saving me money? No all it's doing is costing you money.
Now publishers are getting smarter and realising that people will throw money away because they're stupid. So they're starting to put micro transactions in the game which you can't get these items unless you pay extra for them like loot cards in SWG. So you're telling me I have to pay a subscription and on top of that I have to spend MORE money to get extra stuff? In EQ2 SOE charged you extra for that EQ2 players service and then charged you for content that should have been free with Adventure packs.
the difference is (lets use COD4 for example) i bought it when it came out $50-60 dollars. 1 week later, i beat it, and the story ends, no further continuing or content (unless you mod it, but lets keep it to base products distributed by the developer just like mmorpgs).
Now, i beat it, great, 1 week, probably only 6 game hours and i blew threw the content. Fine. Lets take it online!. How long will it be until you see every board? say you only play 1 scenario/board a day. The game will last you what? another 3 weeks? Now, you have seen/done every board/scenario there is. Now its time to repeat it all over again, over and over, repeatedly.
MMORPGs, unlike console games, will have a staying power of NEW content/additions which are included into monthly subs. Look at games like LOTRO, WoW, EQ2, etc, where they add, even if it is just a region/zone/dungeon every 2 or 3 months, they are still supplying you with new content. And take into affect, that say you play COD4 for 1 game hour a day, you could logically beat it in a week or 2 (tops). How long until, in an mmorpg, you see all the content in MOST mmorpgs (i say most cause there is the occasional screwball mmorpg with no content) playing the same amount of time?
The worlds, time, playability, content differences are huge. And like stated, i am not talking about modding, cause you really cant mod content in mmorpgs, so i am trying to keep the playing field even.
You're also paying to use their servers to play the game. I mean, those aren't free to run. Other games that you play aren't hosted on the company's servers.
There is more content released in MMOs than other games. If you look at a game like Fallout 3 for example, its a great game. There's a whole lot you can do in the game but once you finish that its done. You don't get to help a friend accomplish anything. You play by yourself, and once you've done everything thats it. Now, they're releasing DLC for Fallout, but guess what? You have to pay for it.
I just don't really understand your logic complaining about paying to use their servers to play a game. Paying so they can continue to update a game and try to balance things at a regular pace. Can you really name one game that isn't a MMO that has released as much new content without an expansion as LOTRO?
Whoop-dee-fucking-doo!
$200 bucks to play an MMO for an entire year, thats really gonna break the bank lmfao. I'm having a hard enough time finding an MMO to play let alone caring about such a paltry cost for a hobby.
I spend $200 bucks drinking piss on a saturday night.
O_o o_O
I think it isnt much. If you like it, you dont give up your life for it, so be it.. Hobby like all others. Other hobbies are really more rip-off: week of skiing cost much more then 200$ (or smth like that). That only ONE WEEK!. That was just example.. There is many morie hobbies which cost which cost more.
There isnt much discussion here... Simply there is 2 sides and each have their view. It is imposibble to prove one right. I would gladly pay 200$/month if it would give me enough excitment and satisfaction...
As an above poster stated, it is only a rip-off if you are paying for something you do not enjoy. I only consider things 'rip-offs' if they are essential to everyday living (food, fuel, heating etc.)
MMO's are a hobby and therefore it is down to the discretion of the customer whether or not they pay for the service. The only people that moan about MMO's being a rip-off are people who can't live without them and can't afford the sub. And that's just sad.
im undecided as well
on the one hand i agree with the op and i would expect every mmo company to invest at least 1/3rd of the monthly fee in free content. and i dont mean balancing some statistics or fixing bugs that shouldnt be in there the 1st place. also they force you to pay if you want to play at all so after the initial free month they kind of kidnapped your game and even if they do not develope new content you are forced to pay them if you want to play the game wich isnt the case with single player games.
on the other hand i too see that i get a lot more value from mmo then from classic games. if i compare age of conan for example with many conan games bevore (mostly jump & run/ hack & slash) aoc offers a lot more content even compared to modern single player games like tomb raider or prince of persia.
if your bored, visit my blog at:
http://craylon.wordpress.com/ dealing with the look of mmos with the nvidia 3d vision glasses
Just want to echo some of what Kyleran says here. Subscription fees are what the market will currently bare. There's really not much more to the issue really.
Besides, imo, $15 per month is relatively cheap considering the amount of entertainment I receive in return. You can't sneeze in a bar for less than that, and that's just one evening. For that amount, I get a fun reliable game I can play with thousands of other people.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
OH NOES!!! I had to pay phone bill today --> phones are complete rip offs
If you think it is a rip off, don't pay and don't play. It is a free market. Obviously Blizzard and many have shown that whatever they are charging is NOT driving customers away. There is no reason why they should lower the price if they can get away with this one.
Welcome to capitalism, the naive one.
You can't compare Valve to MMO developers.
Most of the servers we play Valve games on are owned by game communities (www.5e-community.com for instance)and not Valve themselves. They don't have near the overhead that an MMO developer has.
Also Valve is also a distributor. They have other streams of income to offset the need for a monthly subscription. Most of the games on Steam are not made by Valve yet they get a nice percentage of all the games purchased through them.
Valve games are tiny in relation to MMO's. Look at TF2. Tiny maps. So they made some tiny maps slapped together some animations and poof they make money. Most MMO's are huge. They have 1000's of servers in their server farm. It takes alot of techs to keep all that running, patched and customers happy. The overhead is expensive.
Now that said. $15 month is not that much. If Valve could get people to pay that.. they would!
Make a difference!
I agree with the OP: MMOs are complete rip offs.
Let's compare the costs of a typical MMO game versus the costs of a game that has a high degree of replayability:
Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided $50x2= $100
Jump to Lightspeed $30x2= $60
Rage of the Wookiees $30x2= $60
Subs account 1: 27mox$15= $405
Subs account 2: 24mox$15= $360
________________________________
Total: $885
Compare that with Sim City IV, which I purchased a few months earlier:
Sim City IV: $50
Rush Hour: $30
__________________
Total: $80
Or a game I purchased after SWG:
Rome: Total War: $50
Barbarian Invasion: $30
___________________
Total: $80
These games are just as good to play and as challenging as when I bought them. SWG, however, was changeed against my will into something I don't even know how to play anymore. So I paid ten times the price for my SWG experience as I did for my Sim City IV or Rome: Total War experience, but got less than half of the amount of play value out of SWG, because of the MMO developers need to mess with my software.
Value is indeed subjective, but the shelf life of the software is not. MMOs are by their nature short lived, because once the publisher quits supporting the game, the software is useless. I'm sure Tabula Rasa fans or Asheron's Call II fans would love to keep on playing the games they enjoy, but this isn't within their power to decide. Just think about how much money they could save if they found a game they could enjoy for just as long of a time for just the box price?
So, in short, MMOs are indeed a ripoff, because you pay a lot more for this version of computer entertainment, and have absolutely no say when or if it will be continually available for your enjoyment. You pay much more, and get much less say over what you get.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
EQ has been going for 10 years. SOE still supports it and still releases expansions. Show me 1 game out of the box without monthly fees that matches that?
Make a difference!
People are saying MMOs last longer than other games, but thats just because they dilute content through level-grind.
Its like going to a bar, paying 15 dollars for a gyn tonic and find that the gyn has been waterd down.
I think people are forgeting about property. Its like the blue rays, you don't buy the disk, you just "rent" the tecnology from sony
Just think about it, you have already paid for the game box, the same amount you could have payed for any single player game, but after the first month you have yo continue paying if you wan't to playing
. Why did you have to pay for the box then? Its not like you can continue playing ofline, neither you can start your own server (like with neverwinter)
Also, i remember back then, when WoW was about to be released many people thought that paying monthly for an game was insane. To counter this WoW promised an "evolving" world (it was in the box) in which content would be added on a regular basis, still most of WoW patches have been to adress balance issues, which should have been fixed from the beginning. (for the 1º year there wasn't really new content added and after that, only a camp here and there where added)
It should be worth mentioning LOTRO, which is kinda faithfull to its players and has expanded with many new features that didn't ask for extra money, like housing or being able to dress as you like.
Its funny how in this modern times companies can screw their customers demanding more and more from them and striping them from the rights of owning what they have paid for, and people is still happy to accept the companies terms, instead of rising against them claming that, after all "The customer is always right".
No.. i buy the blu-ray discs then download the movies and burn them myself.. i own them usually just after they hit the big screen
Seriously at $10 a ticket they are asking for it... nay begging for it.
Make a difference!
No.. i buy the blu-ray discs then download the movies and burn them myself.. i own them usually just after they hit the big screen
Seriously at $10 a ticket they are asking for it... nay begging for it.
I prefer getting them a week or so BEFORE they hit the big screen, myself.