I went against voting for PQ's, as inovative as they are, simply because in practice they don't work.
They were theoretically great, but when used in game, most people just stuck to the better, faster content, and the PQ's ended up devolving into just grind fests akin to factions in world of warcraft.
They are a way of gently encouraging people to group together and play a MMO with other people!
For those who don't know, a PQ typically has 3 stages. The first stage is solo. The second stage 2 people of the appropriate level can complete. The third stage requires at least a tank and healer of the appropriate level, but can be completed by a larger mixed group.
There are normally 3 pq's per chapter. As you complete portions, stages, or the entire pq, you get influence points. Get enough influence points and you get 3 stages of loot. The loot is typically (half the time) a desirable upgrade.
If you don't complete the 2nd or 3rd stage in a certain period of time (first stage has no time limit) then the pq will reset to the first stage. Thus, 1 person can solo stage 1, move on to the next pq, and cycle through them to max their influence for that chapter and get the loot. 2 people can handle both stages, and if you get a group you can take all three stages.
Completing a pq gives you a random roll with a quirky system that adds to your roll based off your contribution in the pq. The top players (sometimes everyone) gets a loot bag where you decide on an item. The quality and quantity of the bag is random, but is partially based off the difficulty of the pq. The person with the highest roll gets the best quality bag. Each bag of same quality has the same items for that PQ, but different items for each of the PQs in a chapter.
This in an innovative feature that gives players encouragement to group together while allowing solo/duo players rewards for their time. The pq's that are empty of players can be fixed if you just get a group together and go there.
I don't think any of these game concepts are really that innovative. I guess if I had to pick one, it would probably be the public quests in Warhammer. I think the entire industry reeks of a lack of innovation. All I see is one copycat game after another. Age of Conan combat combo is most certainly not innovative, it has been done before in other games. As to ship combat, how is that different than ship combat in Eve? I think the jury is still out on the Council of Stellar Management in Eve, it seems more a marketing ploy than anything helpful to date. I think we have to look to the indy developers for a company to take a chance on something truely innovative, the major ones seem to avoid that lately.
I have to respectfully completely disagree:
I honestly can't remember ever seeing Age of Conan-style combat in another MMO. I'm not saying I'm king of all knowledge or anything, but to the best of my recollection, or that of anyone else that I have spoken to, we've not seen it in another MMO.
Have you played Pirates of the Burning Sea? I can't recall the last time that wind direction and strength played a role in EVE Online... given there's no wind in space. I'm not knocking EVE's combat, I'm just saying.. it's different.
The Council of Stellar Management has already made a number of differences in the direction of EVE. I wouldn't say it's any more of a marketing thing than any other feature of an MMO. when there's news about it, they send out a release. Take a look at this interview.
Honestly, and please don't take this personally, but I think you might be confused as to the meaning of the word innovation.
Invention is the creation of something completely and wholly new, while innovation is taking something that already exists and somehow changing it (generally to improve upon it).
Communities have always contributed to development decisions, The CSM takes a new spin on that and formalizes it via elections
Quests have always existed in MMOs, PQs present them in a different way, encouraging people to work together without requiring grouping
ship to ship combat has always existed, but PotBS used what they knew of nautical age of sail combat and integrated functions to replicate it.
MMOs have almost always used single key attacks, Age of Conan added a new layer to that by requiring combos to activate certain abilities.
These are all innovative features. I'm not saying they're all great, and we're not asking you what the best feature is. You don't have to like something for it to be innovative. Inf act, innovation often results in the opposite.
Point taken on both Pirates of the Burning Sea sea combat and also CSM in Eve. They both meet your definition of innovative and thank you for enlightening us on what the definition is.
As to combat in Conan. My first fight in the Conan was deja vue, I immediately knew that this was very similar to other games I have played. As to what game had it, been too many to remember the exact one. So since I can't supply a name, I will just have to disagree on this point, I know that this combat method was not new.
I don't think any of these game concepts are really that innovative. I guess if I had to pick one, it would probably be the public quests in Warhammer. I think the entire industry reeks of a lack of innovation. All I see is one copycat game after another. Age of Conan combat combo is most certainly not innovative, it has been done before in other games. As to ship combat, how is that different than ship combat in Eve? I think the jury is still out on the Council of Stellar Management in Eve, it seems more a marketing ploy than anything helpful to date. I think we have to look to the indy developers for a company to take a chance on something truely innovative, the major ones seem to avoid that lately.
I have to respectfully completely disagree:
I honestly can't remember ever seeing Age of Conan-style combat in another MMO. I'm not saying I'm king of all knowledge or anything, but to the best of my recollection, or that of anyone else that I have spoken to, we've not seen it in another MMO.
I disagree. It was not innovative and in fact has been in every mmo out there. See those icons you click on your skillbar in every mmo? Funcom added a few more on a square skillbar and then added brackets on either side of the mob to tell you which to click on.
Aoc combat was innovativie to me as it needed skills in pvp rather than loading your skills and spells by pressing 1,2,3,4,5.
I played a melee character and it was great, the way you had to double step backwards or sidewards etc to avoid swings of other characters weapons etc or to laod up specific buffs to help you survive for a few more seconds. The combo system was great and at times pulling of the combos were hard due to being outnumbered or even stunned and rooted on the last action of the combo, but atleast most fights were very different every time. Its a shame failcom lied and turned this game into an instance based empty game or i still wouldve been playing it.
Age of Conan couldve been one of the best games of all time but funcom turned it into the shambles it is now. For that they deserve an award this year from MMORPG for being the most faggiest developer around.
I voted age of conan combo. why? Even grinding was fun as you were always testing out what combos you would use on mobs if another player jumped out and attacked you. Like erm.... i would start of with this combo and then this one and then i would use the finishing blow kaboom!!!!!!! and sometimes when u finish these combos they even had a sick death move at the end of it, wow awesome I think it was innovative and thats what matters because its my vote.Its all about ME.
The game was shite..... they said it was going to be an open sandbox game and it wasnt...they said it had Directx 10 and it didnt, the pvp patch wasnt there while i played, i dont care of its there now i hate funcom .
Gaute greedy greasy german Godager was a big fat muppet who didnt give a shit about no-one. Lets wait and see what this new silmaril guy does and who knows they might have a good game by next year.
Reason I chose WARs PQ system over AoC Cobat system ( though it was close):
The PQ experience was a game wide experience. All players could enjoy the feature when logged in. In Age of Conan, if I played a pure caster (PoM, ToS, Necro, Demonologist), the combo system is worthless to me. ( Nitpicking yes, I know)
I also believe future MMO games will emulate Public Quests in their worlds one form or another. They will learn a lot from Mythics implementation and improve upon it. Age of Conans combo system will be harder to emulate. Might require too much effort that would be worth it. Why go through all the troubles of a combo when you can chain buttons together or do a heroic opportunity like in EQ2 for a special effect?
Public quests are fair on most levels. Everyone gets a shot for loot, though the scales are tipped for those who contribute more. Even if you don't have time to stay to the end or dont have enough people to do it, you can still get a reward from an influence vendor. It is a casual MMO players blessing. And casual players outnumber the hardcore ones.
So this is why I feel Public quests are so innovative for MMOs.
Public Quests would have been my choice, if it was new. EQ2 has used them in the past during Live events. According to other posters, WoW has used them. So innovative, not so much.
EVE's council, again, not new. EVE has done this before. Other MMOs have also had similar 'councils' that collect communtiy data and then meet with devs to share their collective findings.
PotBS, I don't have any experince with this game, and while it sounds intriguing to me, I can't put my vote behind somehting I'm not familiar with.
AoCs combat system for me is the most innovative feature of the three remaing that I am familiar with. The system is more than just combos, its also can involve active blocking and directional combat. I've played enough of other MMOs to know the difference between the rows of 'skills' in other games and the combat system in AoC. I still play AoC, EQ2, and EVE. I've been largely playing AoC of late. Everytime I go back to EQ2, I find the combat dull and slow. I find myself missing the interaction of the directional attacks and combos, as well as the blocking schemes.
you can't just look at a piece without considering the whole. when is the last time you were looking to buy a car and said "man, that's one sweet driver's side seat"? do you only watch cable/satellite for the local news channel?
going by the definition of innovation given in this thread; why isn't wow listed with all the items it originally innovated upon and the things it continues to innovate upon?
csm - sorry, i'm not seeing anything great coming from there that the dev team wasn't already leaning towards.
combo attacks in conan? i'm pretty sure i've played games where you have to do x and y attack to open up Z attack. i'm pretty sure that dual blades has stuff like that in cox, just off the top of my head for a recent example. didn't uo add stuff like that a long time ago? rogues in wow have to build up points with basic attacks in order to get to the "good" attack. so unless aoc's combo are something OTHER than "do x attack followed by y attack and it gives you z attack -- it's been done over and again in mmos).
regardless, if the game is a stinker (aoc); then what does any innovation matter?
which goes with potbs. again, i'm sorry, but i've seen staff here at mmorpg posting with the "you just need to give them a few more months (and continue paying a sub for a sub-par game. sub-par even in the mind of the poster supporting said game at the time).
in order to be considered, a game should be at least decent. the public quests are a great idea in a game that doesn't totally suck.
but hey, everyone has their opinion.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Going to have to go with the PQ's on this one.. CSM isnt even in a game feature, as much as a vote for the popular eve players... AoC Combo system would be my choice if they had implimented it properly and made it useful. Ship combat isnt anything new.
CSM got my vote because it was the most invasive feature out of the whole lot from a game i have actually played and liked
SQO has had a public quest like system that actually works though i haven't played war so i cant say for sure that they are a similar system
but there were no real choices in that list the csm effect can be achieved by a simple forum vote where the devs ignore the biggiest winers and go with the best option
I didn't think much of any of them.I did not understand what exactly the Warhammer idea was trying to achieve that was so innovative?Was Warhammer trying to achieve solo quests? that is what i took from it.In EQ2 last i played they were adding zones that scale down to player or players and the level of difficulty.YES these zones had quests ,so in essence they wee achieving the EXACT same thing,but again i am not sure exactly what WARHAMMEr is trying to achieve so i may be off here.
The AOC idea i guess is sort of unique but is not a good idea.I would rather learn something a little more challenging than arrow directions.Just the idea of arrow directions sounds too superficial to me,to be counted as anything exciting or challenging or thinking.This idea is actually a variation of the FINAL FANTASY [console] special attacks where by you have to enter directions and symbols to achieve the special attacks,so really it has already been done.I can't quite remember witch game it was but i think it was FF8 or FF9 or maybe it was even 10.
I do not think ANY game out there is even close to Final Fantasy when comes to innovation in combat,just because they have covered soooo many different areas in not only there console games but there FFXI as well,using the renkai chart/combos/sub classes and attacks that utilize more than one player and they have levels of renkai varying from level 1 combos to level2/3,then you can add magic bursts,geesh other games should be embarrassed at how far ahead the Final Fantasy genres are .
As far as the council of stellar management goes,that is not really unique as a whole.Sure they have 9 players i think it was ,but they are to take input from the whole community,that is something SOE did with EQ2 long ago.For a whole year at least maybe longer they put out petitions to every player ,chocked full of questions as to what they liked or did not like about the game.So in reality both ideas are taking input from the community,where as EVE is relying on the 9 players to take from all,but in reality they may ignore all and just utilize what they feel personally.I would rather choose to trust the Developer to arrange feedback rather than players in the game,as i have ALWAYS seen players to be VERY biased towards themselves, whilst not caring about the ENTIRE game community.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I don't think any of these game concepts are really that innovative. I guess if I had to pick one, it would probably be the public quests in Warhammer. I think the entire industry reeks of a lack of innovation. All I see is one copycat game after another. Age of Conan combat combo is most certainly not innovative, it has been done before in other games. As to ship combat, how is that different than ship combat in Eve? I think the jury is still out on the Council of Stellar Management in Eve, it seems more a marketing ploy than anything helpful to date. I think we have to look to the indy developers for a company to take a chance on something truely innovative, the major ones seem to avoid that lately.
I have to respectfully completely disagree:
I honestly can't remember ever seeing Age of Conan-style combat in another MMO. I'm not saying I'm king of all knowledge or anything, but to the best of my recollection, or that of anyone else that I have spoken to, we've not seen it in another MMO.
Have you played Pirates of the Burning Sea? I can't recall the last time that wind direction and strength played a role in EVE Online... given there's no wind in space. I'm not knocking EVE's combat, I'm just saying.. it's different.
The Council of Stellar Management has already made a number of differences in the direction of EVE. I wouldn't say it's any more of a marketing thing than any other feature of an MMO. when there's news about it, they send out a release. Take a look at this interview.
Honestly, and please don't take this personally, but I think you might be confused as to the meaning of the word innovation.
Invention is the creation of something completely and wholly new, while innovation is taking something that already exists and somehow changing it (generally to improve upon it).
Communities have always contributed to development decisions, The CSM takes a new spin on that and formalizes it via elections
Quests have always existed in MMOs, PQs present them in a different way, encouraging people to work together without requiring grouping
ship to ship combat has always existed, but PotBS used what they knew of nautical age of sail combat and integrated functions to replicate it.
MMOs have almost always used single key attacks, Age of Conan added a new layer to that by requiring combos to activate certain abilities.
These are all innovative features. I'm not saying they're all great, and we're not asking you what the best feature is. You don't have to like something for it to be innovative. Inf act, innovation often results in the opposite.
+5 Respect points for this post.
I agree the AoC combat system is a novel system. I also think the Murder vs Innocent Consequence PvP system is novel though. I can not think of any other game that ever have implemented such a concept. I know Fable was really doing a lot of work on this side of things but Fable again never had PvP and murderers hunting innocents and vica versa. Anyways, my vote goes to AoC for their combat system.
i pretymuch just snored through all of these. not are really inovative.
If i had to pic a inovation their really only one game that comes to mind City of heroes (and later champions Onlines) Character Creation Sytem. No other MMO comes close to that level of customizbility
some of us aren't that easily impressed. you can't just look at a piece without considering the whole. when is the last time you were looking to buy a car and said "man, that's one sweet driver's side seat"? do you only watch cable/satellite for the local news channel?
Actually, you might, if you were concerned with the ways that front sdeats operate. Maybe the front seat has a butt warnmer in it, maybe it adjusts to fit the driver... In this case, we're only looking at specific pieces of the car... you'll have your chance to vote for best overall car later on.
i pretymuch just snored through all of these. not are really inovative.
If i had to pic a inovation their really only one game that comes to mind City of heroes (and later champions Onlines) Character Creation Sytem. No other MMO comes close to that level of customizbility
I think you're missng the 2008 part... Champions han't launched yet and CoH's customization system was implemented a long time ago...
i pretymuch just snored through all of these. not are really inovative.
If i had to pic a inovation their really only one game that comes to mind City of heroes (and later champions Onlines) Character Creation Sytem. No other MMO comes close to that level of customizbility
I think you're missng the 2008 part... Champions han't launched yet and CoH's customization system was implemented a long time ago...
I think you're missing the part about any of these things on your list as being innovative. As others have even commented upon.
Council of Stellar Management (EVE) Not a feature of the game itself
Combo Combat (Age of Conan) Not a first for real time combat and has been dumbed down at that
Public Quests (Warhammer Online) Noone is wasting their time doing these now so I fail to see their importance in player enjoyment or retention (I'm sure 3-20 dudes will come to the mechanics defense on this forum but that don't mean shit to the barren PQ's found in game.)
Ship Combat (Pirates of the Burning Sea) Awesome, now my virtual avatar is a boat, I have never played a boat before /sarcasm. Nothing but a cosmetic change to essentially more of the same ol'
None of these implementations in 2008 deserve to reserve any kind of award. They either lack being original, changing game dynamics beyond appearance or actually gathered much player interest at this point and are either being ignored and retooled by devs to lose any sense of originality.
Say what you will about how Funcom aka Failcom dropped the balled, but they got one thing right. Age of Conan's Combo Combat System is by far the best combat system right not. Too bad that and the lore is the only two things the game has going for it, other than the hot graphics and the DX 10 support. Alas not enough to be the new number one for most MMO gamers.
I actually agree with that, AoC's combat system is better than every other MMO simply because of the combo system. The funny thing is, it isn't even really all that different than most other MMO's combat systems, with specials and all that. What they did was add something extra to clicking on the specials, and some very nice animations.
Too bad they released the game unfinished and have decided some of the promised features are not important enough to implement into the game. AoC is the biggest waste of potential since SWG was destroyed by SOE.
Ship Combat (Pirates of the Burning Sea) Awesome, now my virtual avatar is a boat, I have never played a boat before /sarcasm. Nothing but a cosmetic change to essentially more of the same ol'
I completely agree with that. PotBS's ship combat is not much different that normal MMO game combat, it just has ships instead of a humanoid avatar. Hell, if you want to claim having a ship instead of the usual MMO type avatar is innovative, EVE has had ship combat since it launced several years ago. Even SWG, for all its flaws (and those flaws greatly outweigh any good points that waste of an MMO has), has had ship to ship combat since the JtL expansion, which is actually different than anything found in any other MMO.
The ship combat in PotBS is in no way innovative, not even cosmetically.
Ship Combat (Pirates of the Burning Sea) Awesome, now my virtual avatar is a boat, I have never played a boat before /sarcasm. Nothing but a cosmetic change to essentially more of the same ol'
I completely agree with that. PotBS's ship combat is not much different that normal MMO game combat, it just has ships instead of a humanoid avatar. Hell, if you want to claim having a ship instead of the usual MMO type avatar is innovative, EVE has had ship combat since it launced several years ago. Even SWG, for all its flaws (and those flaws greatly outweigh any good points that waste of an MMO has), has had ship to ship combat since the JtL expansion, which is actually different than anything found in any other MMO.
The ship combat in PotBS is in no way innovative, not even cosmetically.
But dude...
it was a boat.
This is MMORPG.COM here and we like to lower the bar on standards
Edit: I guess if fallen earth releases it can let you build a dunebuggy or something similar. That has never been done before. Do I smell a potential 09' Awards: Most Inovative feature nominee?
wow's new siege vehicles allow for one player to drive/attack with the siege vehicle and several people to ride in the back, shooting at enemies AND they're pretty safe from attacks until the vehicle is destroyed. combine this with the siege vehicles are capable of destroying enemy castles and such. that is innovation on pvp play.
what about the mounts? flying and land based mounts also include mechnical flying machines, choppers/hogs and flying carpets. not sure about mounts in other games...
COx has improved qol for character creation and/or respecs. as of the release of i13 (tomorrow) there are a number of changes. villains may now respec out of their patron power set. all toons may have dual builds. day jobs gives badges/accolades/powers/buffs while your character is offline. i believe powerset proliferation was introduced this year. new powersets continue to (slowly) be added. these are very close to new classes being introduced in other games. combine all these together and only counting the new stuff in 2008 and you have quite a bit of innovation in character creation, re-creation and advancement.
depending on mounts being offered in other games, i would say the above three are all excellent innovations introduced this year.
yeah, i know mentioning wow isn't cool; but, improving upon the status quo is what blizzard (north) was known for, and this new crew at blizzard seems commited to (at least attempt) continuing this tradition.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Ship Combat (Pirates of the Burning Sea) Awesome, now my virtual avatar is a boat, I have never played a boat before /sarcasm. Nothing but a cosmetic change to essentially more of the same ol'
I completely agree with that. PotBS's ship combat is not much different that normal MMO game combat, it just has ships instead of a humanoid avatar. Hell, if you want to claim having a ship instead of the usual MMO type avatar is innovative, EVE has had ship combat since it launced several years ago. Even SWG, for all its flaws (and those flaws greatly outweigh any good points that waste of an MMO has), has had ship to ship combat since the JtL expansion, which is actually different than anything found in any other MMO.
The ship combat in PotBS is in no way innovative, not even cosmetically.
Have you played the game, or even read the article describing why it was different? Did you read my earlier post in this thread discussing how it was different? I'll grant you, you use WSAD, but the last time I checked, you don't have to worry about whether your avatar is broadside or face on, you don't generally need to worry about how the wind direction is going to effect your foot based avatar...
Seriously, maybe reading before posting a scathing criticism is in order as this matter has been addressed several times both in the article and WITHIN THIS THREAD. Just saying.
Comments
I went against voting for PQ's, as inovative as they are, simply because in practice they don't work.
They were theoretically great, but when used in game, most people just stuck to the better, faster content, and the PQ's ended up devolving into just grind fests akin to factions in world of warcraft.
Beyond that, I just flipped a coin for my choice.
PQ's in WAR FTW.
They are a way of gently encouraging people to group together and play a MMO with other people!
For those who don't know, a PQ typically has 3 stages. The first stage is solo. The second stage 2 people of the appropriate level can complete. The third stage requires at least a tank and healer of the appropriate level, but can be completed by a larger mixed group.
There are normally 3 pq's per chapter. As you complete portions, stages, or the entire pq, you get influence points. Get enough influence points and you get 3 stages of loot. The loot is typically (half the time) a desirable upgrade.
If you don't complete the 2nd or 3rd stage in a certain period of time (first stage has no time limit) then the pq will reset to the first stage. Thus, 1 person can solo stage 1, move on to the next pq, and cycle through them to max their influence for that chapter and get the loot. 2 people can handle both stages, and if you get a group you can take all three stages.
Completing a pq gives you a random roll with a quirky system that adds to your roll based off your contribution in the pq. The top players (sometimes everyone) gets a loot bag where you decide on an item. The quality and quantity of the bag is random, but is partially based off the difficulty of the pq. The person with the highest roll gets the best quality bag. Each bag of same quality has the same items for that PQ, but different items for each of the PQs in a chapter.
This in an innovative feature that gives players encouragement to group together while allowing solo/duo players rewards for their time. The pq's that are empty of players can be fixed if you just get a group together and go there.
Man...
It's been a bad year...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
This site loves EVE so much it put in a "feature" for the awards that's not even an in-game feature. That's sad, just sad.
I have to respectfully completely disagree:
I honestly can't remember ever seeing Age of Conan-style combat in another MMO. I'm not saying I'm king of all knowledge or anything, but to the best of my recollection, or that of anyone else that I have spoken to, we've not seen it in another MMO.
Have you played Pirates of the Burning Sea? I can't recall the last time that wind direction and strength played a role in EVE Online... given there's no wind in space. I'm not knocking EVE's combat, I'm just saying.. it's different.
The Council of Stellar Management has already made a number of differences in the direction of EVE. I wouldn't say it's any more of a marketing thing than any other feature of an MMO. when there's news about it, they send out a release. Take a look at this interview.
Honestly, and please don't take this personally, but I think you might be confused as to the meaning of the word innovation.
Invention is the creation of something completely and wholly new, while innovation is taking something that already exists and somehow changing it (generally to improve upon it).
Communities have always contributed to development decisions, The CSM takes a new spin on that and formalizes it via elections
Quests have always existed in MMOs, PQs present them in a different way, encouraging people to work together without requiring grouping
ship to ship combat has always existed, but PotBS used what they knew of nautical age of sail combat and integrated functions to replicate it.
MMOs have almost always used single key attacks, Age of Conan added a new layer to that by requiring combos to activate certain abilities.
These are all innovative features. I'm not saying they're all great, and we're not asking you what the best feature is. You don't have to like something for it to be innovative. Inf act, innovation often results in the opposite.
Point taken on both Pirates of the Burning Sea sea combat and also CSM in Eve. They both meet your definition of innovative and thank you for enlightening us on what the definition is.
As to combat in Conan. My first fight in the Conan was deja vue, I immediately knew that this was very similar to other games I have played. As to what game had it, been too many to remember the exact one. So since I can't supply a name, I will just have to disagree on this point, I know that this combat method was not new.
I have to respectfully completely disagree:
I honestly can't remember ever seeing Age of Conan-style combat in another MMO. I'm not saying I'm king of all knowledge or anything, but to the best of my recollection, or that of anyone else that I have spoken to, we've not seen it in another MMO.
I disagree. It was not innovative and in fact has been in every mmo out there. See those icons you click on your skillbar in every mmo? Funcom added a few more on a square skillbar and then added brackets on either side of the mob to tell you which to click on.
Not innovative, merely a GUI gimmick.
I voted PotBS. I only played the beta of that game but ship combat was by far the most interesting combat I had taken part in in a true MMORPG.
Certainly more brain power necessary than smacking 5 hotkeys in a routine order. Too bad the rest of the game was pretty crappy...
Aoc combat was innovativie to me as it needed skills in pvp rather than loading your skills and spells by pressing 1,2,3,4,5.
I played a melee character and it was great, the way you had to double step backwards or sidewards etc to avoid swings of other characters weapons etc or to laod up specific buffs to help you survive for a few more seconds. The combo system was great and at times pulling of the combos were hard due to being outnumbered or even stunned and rooted on the last action of the combo, but atleast most fights were very different every time. Its a shame failcom lied and turned this game into an instance based empty game or i still wouldve been playing it.
Age of Conan couldve been one of the best games of all time but funcom turned it into the shambles it is now. For that they deserve an award this year from MMORPG for being the most faggiest developer around.
------------------------------
I voted age of conan combo. why? Even grinding was fun as you were always testing out what combos you would use on mobs if another player jumped out and attacked you. Like erm.... i would start of with this combo and then this one and then i would use the finishing blow kaboom!!!!!!! and sometimes when u finish these combos they even had a sick death move at the end of it, wow awesome I think it was innovative and thats what matters because its my vote.Its all about ME.
The game was shite..... they said it was going to be an open sandbox game and it wasnt...they said it had Directx 10 and it didnt, the pvp patch wasnt there while i played, i dont care of its there now i hate funcom .
Gaute greedy greasy german Godager was a big fat muppet who didnt give a shit about no-one. Lets wait and see what this new silmaril guy does and who knows they might have a good game by next year.
Reason I chose WARs PQ system over AoC Cobat system ( though it was close):
The PQ experience was a game wide experience. All players could enjoy the feature when logged in. In Age of Conan, if I played a pure caster (PoM, ToS, Necro, Demonologist), the combo system is worthless to me. ( Nitpicking yes, I know)
I also believe future MMO games will emulate Public Quests in their worlds one form or another. They will learn a lot from Mythics implementation and improve upon it. Age of Conans combo system will be harder to emulate. Might require too much effort that would be worth it. Why go through all the troubles of a combo when you can chain buttons together or do a heroic opportunity like in EQ2 for a special effect?
Public quests are fair on most levels. Everyone gets a shot for loot, though the scales are tipped for those who contribute more. Even if you don't have time to stay to the end or dont have enough people to do it, you can still get a reward from an influence vendor. It is a casual MMO players blessing. And casual players outnumber the hardcore ones.
So this is why I feel Public quests are so innovative for MMOs.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Public Quests would have been my choice, if it was new. EQ2 has used them in the past during Live events. According to other posters, WoW has used them. So innovative, not so much.
EVE's council, again, not new. EVE has done this before. Other MMOs have also had similar 'councils' that collect communtiy data and then meet with devs to share their collective findings.
PotBS, I don't have any experince with this game, and while it sounds intriguing to me, I can't put my vote behind somehting I'm not familiar with.
AoCs combat system for me is the most innovative feature of the three remaing that I am familiar with. The system is more than just combos, its also can involve active blocking and directional combat. I've played enough of other MMOs to know the difference between the rows of 'skills' in other games and the combat system in AoC. I still play AoC, EQ2, and EVE. I've been largely playing AoC of late. Everytime I go back to EQ2, I find the combat dull and slow. I find myself missing the interaction of the directional attacks and combos, as well as the blocking schemes.
In summary, AoC combat system, ftw!
some of us aren't that easily impressed.
you can't just look at a piece without considering the whole. when is the last time you were looking to buy a car and said "man, that's one sweet driver's side seat"? do you only watch cable/satellite for the local news channel?
going by the definition of innovation given in this thread; why isn't wow listed with all the items it originally innovated upon and the things it continues to innovate upon?
csm - sorry, i'm not seeing anything great coming from there that the dev team wasn't already leaning towards.
combo attacks in conan? i'm pretty sure i've played games where you have to do x and y attack to open up Z attack. i'm pretty sure that dual blades has stuff like that in cox, just off the top of my head for a recent example. didn't uo add stuff like that a long time ago? rogues in wow have to build up points with basic attacks in order to get to the "good" attack. so unless aoc's combo are something OTHER than "do x attack followed by y attack and it gives you z attack -- it's been done over and again in mmos).
regardless, if the game is a stinker (aoc); then what does any innovation matter?
which goes with potbs. again, i'm sorry, but i've seen staff here at mmorpg posting with the "you just need to give them a few more months (and continue paying a sub for a sub-par game. sub-par even in the mind of the poster supporting said game at the time).
in order to be considered, a game should be at least decent. the public quests are a great idea in a game that doesn't totally suck.
but hey, everyone has their opinion.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Going to have to go with the PQ's on this one.. CSM isnt even in a game feature, as much as a vote for the popular eve players... AoC Combo system would be my choice if they had implimented it properly and made it useful. Ship combat isnt anything new.
Warp
CSM got my vote because it was the most invasive feature out of the whole lot from a game i have actually played and liked
SQO has had a public quest like system that actually works though i haven't played war so i cant say for sure that they are a similar system
but there were no real choices in that list the csm effect can be achieved by a simple forum vote where the devs ignore the biggiest winers and go with the best option
I didn't think much of any of them.I did not understand what exactly the Warhammer idea was trying to achieve that was so innovative?Was Warhammer trying to achieve solo quests? that is what i took from it.In EQ2 last i played they were adding zones that scale down to player or players and the level of difficulty.YES these zones had quests ,so in essence they wee achieving the EXACT same thing,but again i am not sure exactly what WARHAMMEr is trying to achieve so i may be off here.
The AOC idea i guess is sort of unique but is not a good idea.I would rather learn something a little more challenging than arrow directions.Just the idea of arrow directions sounds too superficial to me,to be counted as anything exciting or challenging or thinking.This idea is actually a variation of the FINAL FANTASY [console] special attacks where by you have to enter directions and symbols to achieve the special attacks,so really it has already been done.I can't quite remember witch game it was but i think it was FF8 or FF9 or maybe it was even 10.
I do not think ANY game out there is even close to Final Fantasy when comes to innovation in combat,just because they have covered soooo many different areas in not only there console games but there FFXI as well,using the renkai chart/combos/sub classes and attacks that utilize more than one player and they have levels of renkai varying from level 1 combos to level2/3,then you can add magic bursts,geesh other games should be embarrassed at how far ahead the Final Fantasy genres are .
As far as the council of stellar management goes,that is not really unique as a whole.Sure they have 9 players i think it was ,but they are to take input from the whole community,that is something SOE did with EQ2 long ago.For a whole year at least maybe longer they put out petitions to every player ,chocked full of questions as to what they liked or did not like about the game.So in reality both ideas are taking input from the community,where as EVE is relying on the 9 players to take from all,but in reality they may ignore all and just utilize what they feel personally.I would rather choose to trust the Developer to arrange feedback rather than players in the game,as i have ALWAYS seen players to be VERY biased towards themselves, whilst not caring about the ENTIRE game community.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have to respectfully completely disagree:
I honestly can't remember ever seeing Age of Conan-style combat in another MMO. I'm not saying I'm king of all knowledge or anything, but to the best of my recollection, or that of anyone else that I have spoken to, we've not seen it in another MMO.
Have you played Pirates of the Burning Sea? I can't recall the last time that wind direction and strength played a role in EVE Online... given there's no wind in space. I'm not knocking EVE's combat, I'm just saying.. it's different.
The Council of Stellar Management has already made a number of differences in the direction of EVE. I wouldn't say it's any more of a marketing thing than any other feature of an MMO. when there's news about it, they send out a release. Take a look at this interview.
Honestly, and please don't take this personally, but I think you might be confused as to the meaning of the word innovation.
Invention is the creation of something completely and wholly new, while innovation is taking something that already exists and somehow changing it (generally to improve upon it).
Communities have always contributed to development decisions, The CSM takes a new spin on that and formalizes it via elections
Quests have always existed in MMOs, PQs present them in a different way, encouraging people to work together without requiring grouping
ship to ship combat has always existed, but PotBS used what they knew of nautical age of sail combat and integrated functions to replicate it.
MMOs have almost always used single key attacks, Age of Conan added a new layer to that by requiring combos to activate certain abilities.
These are all innovative features. I'm not saying they're all great, and we're not asking you what the best feature is. You don't have to like something for it to be innovative. Inf act, innovation often results in the opposite.
+5 Respect points for this post.
I agree the AoC combat system is a novel system. I also think the Murder vs Innocent Consequence PvP system is novel though. I can not think of any other game that ever have implemented such a concept. I know Fable was really doing a lot of work on this side of things but Fable again never had PvP and murderers hunting innocents and vica versa. Anyways, my vote goes to AoC for their combat system.
i pretymuch just snored through all of these. not are really inovative.
If i had to pic a inovation their really only one game that comes to mind City of heroes (and later champions Onlines) Character Creation Sytem. No other MMO comes close to that level of customizbility
Actually, you might, if you were concerned with the ways that front sdeats operate. Maybe the front seat has a butt warnmer in it, maybe it adjusts to fit the driver... In this case, we're only looking at specific pieces of the car... you'll have your chance to vote for best overall car later on.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
I think you're missng the 2008 part... Champions han't launched yet and CoH's customization system was implemented a long time ago...
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
I think you're missng the 2008 part... Champions han't launched yet and CoH's customization system was implemented a long time ago...
I think you're missing the part about any of these things on your list as being innovative. As others have even commented upon.
None of these implementations in 2008 deserve to reserve any kind of award. They either lack being original, changing game dynamics beyond appearance or actually gathered much player interest at this point and are either being ignored and retooled by devs to lose any sense of originality.
I actually agree with that, AoC's combat system is better than every other MMO simply because of the combo system. The funny thing is, it isn't even really all that different than most other MMO's combat systems, with specials and all that. What they did was add something extra to clicking on the specials, and some very nice animations.
Too bad they released the game unfinished and have decided some of the promised features are not important enough to implement into the game. AoC is the biggest waste of potential since SWG was destroyed by SOE.
I completely agree with that. PotBS's ship combat is not much different that normal MMO game combat, it just has ships instead of a humanoid avatar. Hell, if you want to claim having a ship instead of the usual MMO type avatar is innovative, EVE has had ship combat since it launced several years ago. Even SWG, for all its flaws (and those flaws greatly outweigh any good points that waste of an MMO has), has had ship to ship combat since the JtL expansion, which is actually different than anything found in any other MMO.
The ship combat in PotBS is in no way innovative, not even cosmetically.
I completely agree with that. PotBS's ship combat is not much different that normal MMO game combat, it just has ships instead of a humanoid avatar. Hell, if you want to claim having a ship instead of the usual MMO type avatar is innovative, EVE has had ship combat since it launced several years ago. Even SWG, for all its flaws (and those flaws greatly outweigh any good points that waste of an MMO has), has had ship to ship combat since the JtL expansion, which is actually different than anything found in any other MMO.
The ship combat in PotBS is in no way innovative, not even cosmetically.
But dude...
it was a boat.
This is MMORPG.COM here and we like to lower the bar on standards
Edit: I guess if fallen earth releases it can let you build a dunebuggy or something similar. That has never been done before. Do I smell a potential 09' Awards: Most Inovative feature nominee?
ok, innovations for 2008.
wow's new siege vehicles allow for one player to drive/attack with the siege vehicle and several people to ride in the back, shooting at enemies AND they're pretty safe from attacks until the vehicle is destroyed. combine this with the siege vehicles are capable of destroying enemy castles and such. that is innovation on pvp play.
what about the mounts? flying and land based mounts also include mechnical flying machines, choppers/hogs and flying carpets. not sure about mounts in other games...
COx has improved qol for character creation and/or respecs. as of the release of i13 (tomorrow) there are a number of changes. villains may now respec out of their patron power set. all toons may have dual builds. day jobs gives badges/accolades/powers/buffs while your character is offline. i believe powerset proliferation was introduced this year. new powersets continue to (slowly) be added. these are very close to new classes being introduced in other games. combine all these together and only counting the new stuff in 2008 and you have quite a bit of innovation in character creation, re-creation and advancement.
depending on mounts being offered in other games, i would say the above three are all excellent innovations introduced this year.
yeah, i know mentioning wow isn't cool; but, improving upon the status quo is what blizzard (north) was known for, and this new crew at blizzard seems commited to (at least attempt) continuing this tradition.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I completely agree with that. PotBS's ship combat is not much different that normal MMO game combat, it just has ships instead of a humanoid avatar. Hell, if you want to claim having a ship instead of the usual MMO type avatar is innovative, EVE has had ship combat since it launced several years ago. Even SWG, for all its flaws (and those flaws greatly outweigh any good points that waste of an MMO has), has had ship to ship combat since the JtL expansion, which is actually different than anything found in any other MMO.
The ship combat in PotBS is in no way innovative, not even cosmetically.
Have you played the game, or even read the article describing why it was different? Did you read my earlier post in this thread discussing how it was different? I'll grant you, you use WSAD, but the last time I checked, you don't have to worry about whether your avatar is broadside or face on, you don't generally need to worry about how the wind direction is going to effect your foot based avatar...
Seriously, maybe reading before posting a scathing criticism is in order as this matter has been addressed several times both in the article and WITHIN THIS THREAD. Just saying.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com