It has to do with the breakdown of players in terms of who likes to do what. The % of players who really want a lot of non-combat play is dwarfed by the number of players who want mostly combat play. A good number like to have some kind of non-combat play strictly for variety's sake or filler here and there, but the moment you make that kind of play rewarding, the complaints start about "crafted items being too uber" and so forth. The reality is that the largest segment of the playerbase by far prefers combat to any other kind of gameplay. That's why a game like WAR can get away with having a ridiculous crafting system -- most of the people who play the game couldn't care less.
I am so with OP I wold like to see this genre EVOLVE instead of DEvolve, as OP state's why all this combat ONLY in our MMORPG's, numerous of games in dfifferent genres then MMORPG do combat so much better where a MMORPG use to be a mix of all sorts of players, those who enjoy combat and those who don't like combat, or don't prefure 100% combat but a mix of things to do in such a virtual world..
You (novaseeker) just made me sad by telling the TRUTH as yeah! also are right, the numbers will bring in the cash. And we who prefure more from a MMORPG seem to be in the minority, else I am sure this genre would be different then it is today.
And yeah I still remember lots of ignorance going on in games/forums about people who said "go play The Sims" or Secondlife" as those type of people who say things like that just do not understand a thing about what a MMORPG "can" be, else they would never even consider saying something like that to MMORPG players.
It's true.
I mean there have been MMOs released with quite good crafting systems -- EQ2 and Vanguard come to mind here, as well as Ryzom. And crafting can be fun in those games. But I think that overall, even those games are skewed towards combat in order to get materials to craft. EVE has perhaps the greatest separation, but it's more of a market/industrialist simulation rather than a real "crafting" experience.
It's worth noting, though, that 2008's two big releases (AoC and WAR) both have crap crafting systems, and seem pretty unapologetic about it.
Not to sound like a corporate shill, but, if you want an online game with NO COMBAT whatsoever, keep an eye out for CitiesXL in 2009. It's a sim-city style city building game, but it will release with an online component, called the Planet Offer. You'll build your cities on a shared server, and compete with the other players around everything from money to citizens to resources. They;re also including mini-tycoon games in each city.
And NO COMBAT! Just strategic, thought-challenging, competition.
Planned cost of the Planet Offer: 5 dollars per month.
Isn't anyone else bothered by so many games have a theme that to succeed you have to kill things? I enjoy a good slaughterfest like Quake or Mortal Kombat but I always believe that games should be more varied. That is why I admire games that try to put you in more relaxed gaming environment where people can be social with each other instead of being distracted by gameplay like Animal Crossing or Dreamscape. Animal Crossing is a essentially a farming game and I find that type of gameplay relaxing since you have to wait for crops to grow and the only stressful thing in the game is Nanook. Dreamscape is an old mmo but still is a lot of fun. It doesn't funnel you into raiding scenarios or tries to mix in pvp and just pissing you off because it is done poorly. Instead it relies on allowing players to create their own online events and they can be hit or miss but a good social experience overall. How come we don't see good games that don't focus on combat?
Because violence is a part of our primal instinct?
I hate animal crossing. It is boring and feels mundane. I would much rather play Diablo, hack-n-slash some mobs and get cool treasure.
MUSHs were always far less popular than hack and slash MUDs. To such a point that many people have never heard of a MUSH.
It has always been this way. This is nothing new. Even MUDs with entire crafting professions far more hardcore than anything seen in an MMO had combat as the core of the game.
You can stand around and watch corn grow in real life. But you can't kill dragons or or people in real life.
Well, you can't kill Dragons...
literal lol.
How dare you present him with logic! Don't you understand? He fights epic fights, in epic games, with epic toons....eats epic food and takes epic dumps! He has more e..pic..icity...ness in his little finger than you have in your whole unepic body! - ChicagoCub
Combat signifies the competition for scarce resources. When you get down to the base reasons for any war, it is ultimately about resources. If you control an area, you can exploit it, have your people settle it, etc. This is simulated in mmos through wiping out a bandit camp, for instance, raiding, crafting. Could it be expanded to make room for soldiering and town-living? It's possible but it would take a lot of creative thinking. A training program, like in Eve, for townsmen and tradesmen and a separate advancement line. We all don't make our livings through hunting and gathering, so there has to be alternate ways to making a living. Those who choose to be townsfolk have to have ways to earn money without necessarily having to interact with other players. Just like soldiers go out and find stuff to kill, townsfolk will have to have NPC options to make money to buy tools and equipment, etc., to build a business.
It's making that stuff exciting and worth the effort that's the problem. Especially to get it done without having to fight. Not many of us get excited about going to work each day, and for sure, it's usually not a roller-coaster ride of excitement - unless, of course, you work on a roller coaster!
It's making that stuff exciting and worth the effort that's the problem. Especially to get it done without having to fight. Not many of us get excited about going to work each day, and for sure, it's usually not a roller-coaster ride of excitement - unless, of course, you work on a roller coaster!
Sunzu speaks: It is not supremacy to defeat you'r enemy in battle. Supremacy is when you defeat his army without fighting a battle...
But it is true, there should be other ways thn just the warrior to go by. Thiefs sneaks around and should be able to avoid battle that way. Spellcasters might use charms to get by. charming persons should be able to talk/flirt themselves around many fights. A scary looking person could scare away many opponents.
In a pen and paper RPG you have always other options, in a MMO it is always about combat. And sure, some fight might be a must but it is far too many of those right now.
Combat is really fun but having to constantly fight everything get's old fast. My hopes for this are to Bioware, they use to have lotsa ways to do the quests in their old games.
UO was the only virtual world in the "early days". So, saying MMOs were virtual worlds 1st is kind of false. EQ dwarfed UO in popularity and subscriptions and it had nothing WOW doesn't have. EQ was the king of the 1st generation MMOs, NOT UO. If UO had any defining qualities, we'd be playing UO clones, not EQ clones, wouldn't we? Yup.
Comments
I am so with OP I wold like to see this genre EVOLVE instead of DEvolve, as OP state's why all this combat ONLY in our MMORPG's, numerous of games in dfifferent genres then MMORPG do combat so much better where a MMORPG use to be a mix of all sorts of players, those who enjoy combat and those who don't like combat, or don't prefure 100% combat but a mix of things to do in such a virtual world..
You (novaseeker) just made me sad by telling the TRUTH
as yeah! also are right, the numbers will bring in the cash. And we who prefure more from a MMORPG seem to be in the minority, else I am sure this genre would be different then it is today.
And yeah I still remember lots of ignorance going on in games/forums about people who said "go play The Sims" or Secondlife" as those type of people who say things like that just do not understand a thing about what a MMORPG "can" be, else they would never even consider saying something like that to MMORPG players.
It's true.
I mean there have been MMOs released with quite good crafting systems -- EQ2 and Vanguard come to mind here, as well as Ryzom. And crafting can be fun in those games. But I think that overall, even those games are skewed towards combat in order to get materials to craft. EVE has perhaps the greatest separation, but it's more of a market/industrialist simulation rather than a real "crafting" experience.
It's worth noting, though, that 2008's two big releases (AoC and WAR) both have crap crafting systems, and seem pretty unapologetic about it.
Not to sound like a corporate shill, but, if you want an online game with NO COMBAT whatsoever, keep an eye out for CitiesXL in 2009. It's a sim-city style city building game, but it will release with an online component, called the Planet Offer. You'll build your cities on a shared server, and compete with the other players around everything from money to citizens to resources. They;re also including mini-tycoon games in each city.
And NO COMBAT! Just strategic, thought-challenging, competition.
Planned cost of the Planet Offer: 5 dollars per month.
You can check out more at www.citiesxl.com.
Because violence is a part of our primal instinct?
I hate animal crossing. It is boring and feels mundane. I would much rather play Diablo, hack-n-slash some mobs and get cool treasure.
MUSHs were always far less popular than hack and slash MUDs. To such a point that many people have never heard of a MUSH.
It has always been this way. This is nothing new. Even MUDs with entire crafting professions far more hardcore than anything seen in an MMO had combat as the core of the game.
Well, you can't kill Dragons...
literal lol.
How dare you present him with logic! Don't you understand? He fights epic fights, in epic games, with epic toons....eats epic food and takes epic dumps! He has more e..pic..icity...ness in his little finger than you have in your whole unepic body! - ChicagoCub
A tale in the Desert is actually a non-combat game and is focusing everything into crafting.
Combat signifies the competition for scarce resources. When you get down to the base reasons for any war, it is ultimately about resources. If you control an area, you can exploit it, have your people settle it, etc. This is simulated in mmos through wiping out a bandit camp, for instance, raiding, crafting. Could it be expanded to make room for soldiering and town-living? It's possible but it would take a lot of creative thinking. A training program, like in Eve, for townsmen and tradesmen and a separate advancement line. We all don't make our livings through hunting and gathering, so there has to be alternate ways to making a living. Those who choose to be townsfolk have to have ways to earn money without necessarily having to interact with other players. Just like soldiers go out and find stuff to kill, townsfolk will have to have NPC options to make money to buy tools and equipment, etc., to build a business.
It's making that stuff exciting and worth the effort that's the problem. Especially to get it done without having to fight. Not many of us get excited about going to work each day, and for sure, it's usually not a roller-coaster ride of excitement - unless, of course, you work on a roller coaster!
Sunzu speaks: It is not supremacy to defeat you'r enemy in battle. Supremacy is when you defeat his army without fighting a battle...
But it is true, there should be other ways thn just the warrior to go by. Thiefs sneaks around and should be able to avoid battle that way. Spellcasters might use charms to get by. charming persons should be able to talk/flirt themselves around many fights. A scary looking person could scare away many opponents.
In a pen and paper RPG you have always other options, in a MMO it is always about combat. And sure, some fight might be a must but it is far too many of those right now.
Combat is really fun but having to constantly fight everything get's old fast. My hopes for this are to Bioware, they use to have lotsa ways to do the quests in their old games.
UO was the only virtual world in the "early days". So, saying MMOs were virtual worlds 1st is kind of false. EQ dwarfed UO in popularity and subscriptions and it had nothing WOW doesn't have. EQ was the king of the 1st generation MMOs, NOT UO. If UO had any defining qualities, we'd be playing UO clones, not EQ clones, wouldn't we? Yup.