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"A" for effort
Any company that developes an MMORPG which eliminates the level grind mechanics deserves my respect. I appluad Mutable Realm for steping up to the plate and taking the MMORPG genre to next level, something most developers, including the "big name developers", are unwilling to do. I say let them stagnate and produce EQ clones, as long as this game stays on the track to becoming a truely original and innovative MMORPG I will remain a loyal fan. KEep up the good work.
Comments
Amen to that, brother. They deserve to succeed.
Otto!
I'm looking for some friends that I lost contact with over the years...
EQ: Horlain (Firiona Vie)
DAOC: Kaizur (Guinevere)
We have addressed "the grind" in a number of ways:
1) Advancing your character is not the focus of the game. Unlike most MMOs, the focus of Wish is on story and socialization, and not character advancement. Character advancement is a mechanism that supports you as you play the game and have fun. It is not the focus of the game, or something to be conquered before you can have fun.
2) Our power curve is relatively flat. This means that someone who is skill level 50 is not infinitely better than someone who is skill level 45. In fact, someone who is skill level 25 is roughly half as talented as someone who is 50. This means that while advancing your skills is obviously useful, it is not the be all and end all of the game. By making it less important, we help shift the focus off of it.
3) These changes to the power curve ensure that players can play together from any level and contribute in a meaningful way. We don't want the game to decide (based on your time investment) to decide who you can and cannot play with. We want you to.
Will this eliminate the grind and the treadmill? It can if you let it. In the end, players can invent their own treadmill in any system that involves advancement if they so choose. What we have done is remove the necessity of it.
Dana Massey
Wish, World Designer
http://www.wishgame.com/
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Hey the coolest part about this is reps from the game come here to post and actually respond to questions
You can say that agin! I love wish...and yet i have never been in there beta test!
Dec-1 i will be there!
Ives
That is really impressive, in most MMO's it's hard enough getting the dev's to respond on their own message boards. Wow. As easily won over as I may seem, I've never seen that type of dedication to customers, let alone protective customers. Guess where I'm headed right now? To their site to seriously check into this game.
Big time thanks to Ms. Massey for taking the time to respond to my question. Hopefully I'll see you in-game in the future.
Otto!
I'm looking for some friends that I lost contact with over the years...
EQ: Horlain (Firiona Vie)
DAOC: Kaizur (Guinevere)
Mr. Massey
Glad I could help
Dana Massey
Wish, World Designer
http://www.wishgame.com/
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Well, From what I read on wish this looks like the game for me... Level grinding tends to be the down fall of many games , always the same. I defeinatley hope I can get into beta to test this out.
MR Massey could I get a beta entry please
......
heh yeah i am brown noser
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Control is an illusion!
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Control is an illusion!
[QUOTE
Any company that developes an MMORPG which eliminates the level grind mechanics deserves my respect.
[/QUOTE]
They didn't say they got rid of it. They said that the content of the game will be player/social aspects which reads .... game with no content.
Please, just because they tell us there is no treadmill and that a 50th level player is just like a 45th... when has that EVER been true? Never once. Any claims to have removed the leveling treadmill are purely from their perspective not the players.
Unless this game makes MAJOR overhauls since the last beta stage (I was in it) I won't bother. The PnC and graphics were topmost on my list of hated things. And who wants to kill chickens and goats, domesticated .... This game brings nothing new to the genre so far.
Truely original and innovative MMORPG? Please... they have yet to do a single thing that hasn't already been done.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
post deleted
mmm?
Mr. Massey is male
The previous poster had said Ms.
Dana Massey
Wish, World Designer
http://www.wishgame.com/
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Heh can we say ouch
I read that , and thats why i said MR
This to me is awful news. Every game that has tried to eliminate the so called grind has failed and flopped. Speeding up leveling and dumbing down games to make trhem easier for slower players kills games. It forces games to come up with new content as people speed through lvls.
Rather than speedijng up leveling games need to focus on making leveling fun, The grind is why we play the game. Fighting is the content of all these games. If you eliminate you have no game. If you change the focus from combat to something else then you have Horizons.
In every beta I have been slower players who can not play other mmorpgs either because of a lack of skill or lack of time or both continually flood game boards with whines about the grind. The grind is not the problem it is the game. The problem is some people are poor players, have no attention span and need constant gratification.
These same people that whine for less of a grind are always the first pones to complain and leave games. It is the hardcore players that play the game while the others who do not have the skills to play spend thier time whining on boards.
My solution would be to make a game for hardcore people and forget the whiners and you will have a game that will last. Extend the grind and make lvls unlimited. Add meaning to lvls rather than water them down to please people that will leave your game in 4 weeks. Concentrate on making the game fun.
The WoW stress test is a perfect example of an alternative approach. They make the game fun with quests. The only question is will the game last longer than a mopnth. Will they cater to casual whiners and make it to easy or will they build a game that lasts.
Terrible news wish you are doomed for failure.
I have to admit I am very impressed with the staff of Wish as well as the idea they propose. I would love to know how they propose to create constant new quests for a possible community of I believe 10,000 characters. Not making fun, just curious because I genuinely love the potential of this game and the idea of a game where the individual could possibly make a difference, and where the story truly matters.
And Zippy, the grind is not always the problem, nor is attention span. you could make a game where you gain a level for every monster you killed and have an infinite number of one hit creatures to kill and the whiners would complain that the designers didn't make it possible for the player to use telepathy so they didn't have to push a button or click the mouse.
Whiners just whine, doesn't matter what about, but I know a lot of gamers who hate the fact that the game was created around a story and no one follows it. (SWG for example, rebels and imperials in the same guild?)
All I know is if you don't like the game it isn't doomed to failure. Look at some of the games to the left under 'released' that you don't like and they still exist, though you, or I depending on the game will probably never know why its still around.
I like the idea of wish and I already know what to expect: It will have its ups and downs, the first four to five months will be buggy (please prove me wrong there!) and it will become a steady game with its own following.
ROFL Zippy -- Said like a True PowerGamer
If thats what you truely believe & like ...Then I'd say Wish is not or ever will be a game for you,But on the other hand it is a game that is for a lot of people .I for one was in no way impressed by those crappy repeditive quests in the WOW Beta ..Not my type of fun at all
Wish isn't speeding up leveling ..They are making it so you don't have a need to level to do what you want,when you want
Sounds Like EQ is a Game you should LOVE
I have to agree with most of the previous posts. First let me say that I am a powergamer and I do enjoy the levleing grind and being recognized as one of the 1st people to reach the level cap on my server. Even though I will always enjoy the everquest types of games; however over the past few months I have found myself wanting something different and refreshing to play because I am tired of the same old thing.
I played Ryzom, and it was definately lacking content. I am very excited about wish and have been for the past 6 months...I am hoping that they aren't done giving out beta invites though
. I like the idea of a skill system based game and I LOVE the idea of there not being camps of mobs, that your surroundings are constantly changing. Also I might actually make my main a rogue or thief for once. The idea of having fame in certain cities and a warrant out for my arrest sounds very kool. For the power gamer in me wish offers the skill system so I will probably spend alot of time fighting upon release in order to raise my skill level quickly. I like that the fact that on days when I feel burnt out on mob hunting and slaughtering I can go back and do quests or enjoy the designer's content at my leisure.
I believe that wish will be very successful in finding a niche in the mmorpg world. It will have alot of subscribers and the ones that don't lose interest in the first few months will be around for a long time to come. I for one am definately going to play this game whether or not I am still enjoying WoW or EQ2 at the time of it's release; and I will be keeping my subscription active because the Wish designers deserve to be succesfull for all of the many innovations that this game will contain.
I think there are a few general misconceptions here.
If you were going to reference Beta 1.0, and look at everything outside of the Live Story, then all you had to look at was the treadmill. What was there to do? Absolutely all the same stuff in any other MMOG...advance, go see new content (not even much of that even because it was such an early beta), rinse, repeat. That's the definition of a treadmill, and it was experienced in Beta 1.0.
However, those who participated in the Live Story will tell you they didn't feel the treadmill during the story. Why? Because they were too busy having fun and being entertained. When you're trying to piece together who the Sea Hag is, the Troll King, maybe if they had anything to do with Lord Aaron's assassination, or how you were going to kill Mors next time he came around, or all the other things that kept people occupied, you really aren't as concerned about raising your hilted from 5 to 5.1. But guess what? It happened on it's own just by taking part in the story.
Now Live Content isn't what was seen in Beta 1, so well have to save judgment, but it sounds logical enough to produce (and most of the disgruntled gamers have been asking for it in one form or another since the beginning) and looks to be based off the crude Live Story tools, cept more automated and a ton more in depth.
So the lack of treadmill has nothing to do with the speed you raise your skills. The lack of the feel of the treadmill has to do with actually being entertained rather than the entire entertainment being derived from killing ad nausea.
Very few people playing PnP sat around the tabletop thinking "Hmm, I need to kill 18 more of these gnolls to level". They were normally too busy being entertained. Advancing and loot were byproducts rather than the focus.
Anyway, there are plenty of people that do love treadmills. It's not a bad thing to like them. It's just a personal preference. And there are games that are going to fulfill those needs. And do it splendidly. WoW does what it does exceptionally, and is amazingly smoothe. And I have little doubt EQII will do the same. But Wish is trying to entertain people through stories and getting them involved in the stories rather than having the treadmill itself be the entertainment.
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Otto!
I'm looking for some friends that I lost contact with over the years...
EQ: Horlain (Firiona Vie)
DAOC: Kaizur (Guinevere)
I just wanted to state for the record that *I* do not play mmorpgs for the grind, and I really wish people would speak for themselves and not for others
At any rate I'm glad to see that there will be a focus on something other than loot and levels, but my concern is similar to those that have been raised already. Horizons and Ryzom both were supposed to have an emphasis on the story, however what I found myself doing on a daily basis was the grind. I hope Wish is more successful than those products.