Why would you even want to scam someone other than just for the sake of being a douchebag?
None. Thats it exactly. The feeling of being powerful. Maybe in the real non-game world, he works at Burger King in the back cleaning hoppers. Or maybe she's a gal Friday who has to get coffee for everyone all day. Or maybe they are kids in high school who are a Columbine just waiting to happen. Who knows? Who cares about the psychology of 'why'?
Darkfall will actually DEPEND on a segment of these people. Why? Well, just as you guys want to be "good" guys and don't gank, imagine if eveyone didn't gank? Then everyone would sit around crafting all day and fishing. It would be Happyland. You need conflict in a PvP game. Its how they work. Developers have to INVENT strife in normal pvp games "Ok, heres the story. You guys hate these guys forever. Now you have to kill them." Thats it. No real animosity other than cause they say so.
But if a "douchebag" says he wants to kill you, slave you, rip you off.. now you have a REAL reason to log on. You want to find everyone in the "Douchebag United" guild and kill them whenever. And anyone they know. Their family etc. It builds REAL reason to PvP.. not fighting for points or gear. Just "I hate that guy.. everytime I see them I am planting their faces".
So you must have gankers to shoot for.. Or if you are a ganker, you must have goodie goodies.
Gankers will never overwhelm the good guys. They never do. Name a game where the few gankers ruled it? Most guilds hunted them down like dogs.
So basically because people will want to vent their nerd rage? I'm not against the concept of taking things from people they don't want taken away, as long as its within the confines of the game's mechanics. I was a fairly successful bounty hunter in pre-nge swg and I had no problems killing someone and taking away all their xp gains. In fact, having them cry and moan about it and make idle threats was part of the fun and made me want to kill them over and over again. I killed one guy so many times in one week that he begged me to stop and I heard later on that he almost quit swg and was in crying over it vent because he had lost so much xp (he was a big shit talker, which was why I targeted him).
All that being said, I would never try and scam some random player just for kicks. If was talking shit, like the guy i made cry, then I might not have a problem with it. But just scamming people for the sake of scamming and making people you don't even know pissed and angry is not my style. Call me crazy (or, knowing the DF crowd, a carebear), but I don't take pleasure in causing people trouble or grief without a really good reason. I don't think games like DF are for me I guess.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I hope that players will take a better route, there will be most likely full on ganking guilds but hopefully mature players will use good will and conscious and players will help friends when they are scammed, and if you can't get revenge on said offender he it will add to his notoriety. that guy who talked you out of your "Axe of pwn" and then you couldn't defeat him or find someone who could deserves to get away with in that environment otherwise you shouldn't have trusted that person or been dealing at all with them. but there will always be those situations where people are exploited it happens in places with rules.
Edit: Additionally if there is stuff like that someone will start an organization who goes after these type of people, that actually sounds like a fun time.
Originally posted by jakojako Since this game (which i've been looking forward to for YEARS) is supposedly coming out soon, I really want to know what their scamming policy is. What will happen when I scam somebody out of an awesome weapon and such. Will they go WoW on me and insta-ban-hammer-rape me? Or will they go Eve and tell the person who got scammed "should have been more careful!" From what i've heard about Darkfall, the most predictable method would be the Eve method, and i'd be both surprised AND disappointed if the mods stepped in and fought against scammers. Personally, I'm hoping that they will use the eve method and say "should have been more careful", but I was curious as to if anybody knows what they will actually do with scammers?
Personally, mentalities like this are what make games of this type epic fail.
I hope the community bands together to stomp attitudes like this out of existence.
Why put myself through all of that crap of ganking and being ganked when I have other games to play where I do not have to worry about that? And to me, that is the root of the issue at hand and until Adventurine answers that questions well, I am worried that Darkfall will have the playerbase it needs to sustain itself.
Don't worry, I think they knew exactly what market they are going for. They are looking for people who really want to do what they want period. This has been said over and over. I know this is not what you want, but you have to understand, you are going to get a game where it is total freedom. Freedom isn't free or without consequences, youre just going to have to wake up to that fact with any sandbox game. It may not go as you want. Its like opening up democracy and voting to Hamas. Yeah, now you have elections, but look who the people want to elect.
How many times before many, many players get tired of losing that mode, chopping that tree, hunting that mob, or getting ganked over and over again before they stop playing?
I don't know. What is your personal limit? 50 times? 25 times? 1 time? This question can only be answered by each individual player. Everyone has a different pain/pleasure threshold. This cannot be answered in a forum. And if its rhetorical, why ask it?
Sure maybe the game isn't for them but come on people, how many times are we going to say that before we have very few players left playing Darkfall? If this game isn't for 99% of the playerbase, is that 1% enough to support it?
Who says there will be very few players left in this game? Do you know how many fans already knew about the possible gankers and stupid antics? They already know and are planning to kill them on sight. Again, in your assumptions you are thinking half of more of the people playing DF will be gankers. You have no way of knowing that, you can guess but its just that. A guess. Why not assume a positive outlook that MORE people will hate the gankers and hunt them down? I do. I know of no pvp game ever made to support what you think is gonna happen, but plenty where gankers were hunted, their reps ruined and they were shunned.
This game is being advertised as almost pure anarchy and it will not work. An environment like this will only bring out the worst in people and they will do whatever they can to make people's life miserable. period...it has happened before in every PVP game and I do not expect Darkfall to be different.
Again, I understand your fear but its unfounded. You are merely thinking the worst case scenario. It will have anarchy and strife, but out of chaos eventually comes order. Its the history of the world. Just read up on your history books. If it was the way you think, there wouldn't be people at all on the planet and worldwide anarchy. Games just imitate life. You say this has happened in every PvP game before. Where? A few gankers do not ruin the whole game. They only affect YOU personally if you let it. Most people shrug them in other games.. here you can fix them but good.
And see I ask these questions as someone who is genuinely interested in the game. But without answers, I will not go drop $50 on the game. I have been burnt by AOC and WAR and their promises and other games in the past that promised the world and delivered nothing. I hope that Darkfall will be what it promises but I have nothing but empty promises to go onand that just isn't enough anymore.
It's obvious you want a game that will fit your type of gameplay thats in your mind. That will not happen. You say over/over/over your fear, your concern, your worry that Darkfall will fail because of gankers. If it does fail, that won't be the reason. That will be the reason it makes it. Do you know how many people will come from other 'pvp' games to actually play REAL pvp? Quite a bit. They will only quit if the game stinks, not if they got ganked. Only the people who don't like the constant looking over the shoulder will not come. Look at any game where there is an option to have total open PvP server. They don't lack usually. There is usually plenty to fight all the time. Adventurine knows which crowd they are going after.. truly hardcore pvpers. This hs been stated so many times, its sickening to keep going over. Its obvious you do not consider yourself hardcore but thats fine. But you cannot sit here and say you fear the game will fail because it's not to your personal liking.
There are plenty of hardcore people who will disagree with you on this point and will come here because of it. They will not stay in WAR or AoC or WoW or Lotro or GW. Or any other game that has limited pvp.
I hate to say this but, Darkfall will probably not miss your $50. They already know what market they want and anything after that (the softer pvp folks) is gravy.
Don't get me wrong, your posts are usually well thought out and presented and explain your position clear. However from reading your posts here and on other threads I am starting to think more and more that maybe this type of game isn't for you. You seem to be overly fixated on ganking/griefing and how it will kill the game or drive players away. Not sure how much experience you have in a FFA PvP game, I played on Darktide which is very similiar to what DF is claiming to be. There were no rules and noone to cry to. There were no rezzes, if you were PK'ed you lost a good chunk of loot, items, weaps, armor etc. People would camp lifestones or portal drops just to gank. If you died from a monster you had to run back from your lifestone, usually missing a piece or two of your armor, to retrieve your body and whatever was on your corpse. You would be in the middle of fighting a mob and someone would hit ya with a few debuffs and wade on it and attack you, in the middle of selling or buying at a merchant, better keep an eye out for the guy coming in to gank you. In AC you never went near any town other than your monarchy's without fully buffing protections and banes. It was a true free for all experience, back in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP. There were no guarantees, no whining, no calling finsies or time outs, it was kill or be killed. It is today's gamers that don't have any experience in a true FFA game that worry about ganking and griefing. You can trust me when I say that you will be ganked, you will be griefed, but you will have the opportunity to get even. Not attacking or flaming you, so don't think that. Just go in with an open mind. If you feel that the ganking/griefing is to much then you tried the game and it wasn't for you. But trust me when I say that no matter how much might hate the ganking/griefing there will be those that truly love it and enjoy it.
@ OP
It is my sincere hope that they will not try to micro-manage the player conduct. To me it should be short of hacks/cheats/exploits they should leave the population alone and let the players sort it out. Give us the world to play in and let the players decide what the rules and consequences shall be.
A little off topic but an example. In AC-Darktide it was anything goes, my younger brother and I played there for almost 3 years. We quit and a bit later we went back and played with our older brother on Morningthaw, which was a carebear or regular server. In AC there was no scale on xp, whatever the monster was worth was what it was worth no matter what your level. If you were level 80 and killed a level 1 monster you still got at least 1xp. If you were level one and killed a level 30 monster you got a huge chunk of xp. We took our knowledge of powerleving and such to the carebear world. There was a spot up by Neysdia castle and the Matty cave where Olthoi were positioned around a rock with a small cave beneath it. It was right next to a cliff, you could run up the rock and attack the olthoi around it. At the base of the rock an olthoi would spawn and run up and attack. Taking a higher level you could kill this one olthoi and then bring a level 1 up there and debuff the monsters and buff the hell out of the lowbie, he could kill them and level rather fast. We took our brother and some of his monarchy members and showed them this gem of a spot. Well they got a bit pissy one time so we would just run the olthoi up the rock and laugh our c0cks off when it would decimate them. They cried griefing and reported us, I was actually teleported by the GM's and confronted and told to desist immediately. This was fair in that I was playing on a regular server but still playing like I was on Darktide. It was fair in the extreme PvP world of Darktide but not ok in the regular server, what is griefing in one instance was just normal gameplay in another. On regular servers they monitored and were pretty strict on the rules, you could not do anything that would take away from anothers joy of the game. In Darktide they pretty much said, awww the hell with it, kill eachother however you want.
Damn I sure do love the TL;DR posts, sorry guys. I get started and sometimes just keep going.
well itll you sumthing else to do. i am going to be bount hunter/merc. to be hired to kill ppl who got on their nerve.
LOL what are the odd's, I was going to play an anti-merc, to be hired to hunt down and kill merc's who where hired to hunt down and kill ppl who got on other ppl's nerve's, Wow that's cosmic man, that's like fate, cya in game
well itll you sumthing else to do. i am going to be bount hunter/merc. to be hired to kill ppl who got on their nerve.
LOL what are the odd's, I was going to play an anti-merc, to be hired to hunt down and kill merc's who where hired to hunt down and kill ppl who got on other ppl's nerve's, Wow that's cosmic man, that's like fate, cya in game
well itll you sumthing else to do. i am going to be bount hunter/merc. to be hired to kill ppl who got on their nerve.
LOL what are the odd's, I was going to play an anti-merc, to be hired to hunt down and kill merc's who where hired to hunt down and kill ppl who got on other ppl's nerve's, Wow that's cosmic man, that's like fate, cya in game
Just upgrade it to killing everyone :P
No no, but I'll keep my eye on you, sounds like you could bring a lot of business my way
Can't scam people in Darkfall, theirs full loot. If you do scam them, chances are they'll kill your and get it back, and if you were stronger and win why wouldnt you just kill him in the first place and take everything?
seems the best answert.. Also if you are stupid enough to give a total stranger something you are an idiot, would you give a stranger your diamond braclet?
Ok, say you scam someone. They will inform their guild and the community of your activities. You are killed on site by anyone who remembers your name or the bounty put on your head.
You can no longer walk safely in any large city. A few days later, due to constant griefing and pressure you delete your charecter. Honestly you would be better off killing the enemy faction for loot. However, since its a sandbox game, the choice is yours.
...back in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP.
Nice post Splixx, but just wanted to discuss this point.
I played PvP EQ in '99, and griefing and ganking wasnt considered real PvP to most, anymore then training or zone plugging was. To call someone a Ganker or Griefer was an insult back then. To have a reputation of ganker or griefing was a bad thing. Both showed weak skills and both made you think twice about having them in your guild or group.
Which brings me to reputation.
In answer to the OP, I believe it will be reputation that will control scamming. Will I group with a proven scammer, or someone named a scammer by a friend I trust? Nope. Will I warn others of his actions? Yep.
DF looks like the return of accountable reputations in mmorpgs, which is fantastic. Having only 1 character per server is great
Plus, like people say, if you scam, you and your guild better be ready to fight to keep it. Again and again.
well itll you sumthing else to do. i am going to be bount hunter/merc. to be hired to kill ppl who got on their nerve.
LOL what are the odd's, I was going to play an anti-merc, to be hired to hunt down and kill merc's who where hired to hunt down and kill ppl who got on other ppl's nerve's, Wow that's cosmic man, that's like fate, cya in game
Now you arn't going to believe this but.... I was going to play the anti-merc headhunter, taking contracts on those out to kill the mercs hired to kill those who ganked the wrong man. Cyas in game.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
How about you see a ganker who's know for killing. So you pretend to 'join' him in his killing/gank sprees, expressing your distaste for carebears. Then when you guys go out, let him attack and slowly move behind the guy. Then you put about 30 arrows in his back while he gets cut down from the front. Problem solved.
Thats the ultimate funny, cause that's exactly what gankers do. I remember in Diablo, you'd get a guy would talk all nice in town "yeah, let's go kick Diablo's butt." So you hit the dungeons and for a bit, everything is fine. Then after about 10 minutes (always seemed to be the limit; I don't think they could control themselves with the anticipation) after some mob fight where you are almost dead, this guy would finish you off. I remember that happening and the first time I was really mad. Then the guy starts dropping all these other people's ears along with mine. But later, I learned to ignore those kind of guys, little clues gave it away.
Just turn the tables on a ganker if you don't like the ganking. Just gank gankers. But the key is, play how YOU want, not how developers script you to play.
If it's anything like UO, the "scammers" will be blue, and do their scamming in cities surrounded by guards. You attack them, you become a criminal, and the guard kills you. In the wilderness, you attack them, you become a criminal, and their friends kill you since you're now "grey" and can be killed with impunity.
The idea that there's any kind of justice in an online game where "death" is an inconvenience is foolish. "Kill him and take his stuff!"? Odds are, he's wearing newbie robes and the only "stuff" he will have is what he just scammed from you -- and do you think he'd scam you without an escape plan? Even if he dies 75% of the time he scams -- unlikely -- he'll still get away with loot he couldn't have gotten otherwise enough times to make it more than worth the effort. Oh, he'll get a "bad rep" and people won't deal with him? He gives all of his scammed goods to a friend, deletes his character, and rerolls. He might do this many times a day. He doesn't care about leveling up or gaining skills, he's just in it for the lulz -- what does he care how many characters he goes through? As long as he has a RL friend he trusts with the loot -- or is doing it to help out a guild -- or has a second account -- he's untouchable and unstoppable without a banhammer.
I love how people assume they'll always be the winners in any interaction. "If someone's a jerk, kill him!" Did it ever occur to you folks he'll probably kill you first? There's no magic "Kill the jerk" button, and since jerks outnumber non-jerks (just look at the people in this thread for proof), you're more likely to be the victim than the hero.
Won't be a scamming policy. Aventurine is not going to be able to afford many GM's and they will be mostly dealing with bugs, so they just won't even bother to reply to complaints of such.
As to killing, remember, you don't kill your own faction, that can lead to very bad things. I think scamming will be less likely in this game, because you will kill other factions and scamming in your own faction will get you blacklisted.
Im sure luring will be big in this game. "LFM to kill xx boss monster" and then he leads the unsuspecting out into the woods to his friends. But then you could always allow yourself to be lured and just bring more friends
...back in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP.
Nice post Splixx, but just wanted to discuss this point.
I played PvP EQ in '99, and griefing and ganking wasnt considered real PvP to most, anymore then training or zone plugging was. To call someone a Ganker or Griefer was an insult back then. To have a reputation of ganker or griefing was a bad thing. Both showed weak skills and both made you think twice about having them in your guild or group.
Which brings me to reputation.
In answer to the OP, I believe it will be reputation that will control scamming. Will I group with a proven scammer, or someone named a scammer by a friend I trust? Nope. Will I warn others of his actions? Yep.
DF looks like the return of accountable reputations in mmorpgs, which is fantastic. Having only 1 character per server is great
Plus, like people say, if you scam, you and your guild better be ready to fight to keep it. Again and again.
People don't forget things like that.
Hence the "in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP." Whatever game you might of played might of had different thoughts on a wide range of things. On Darktide it was anything goes, no rules, no whining. So if you have a world where there are simply no rules, there can be no such thing as ganking or griefing, you just had gameplay. In games today you get nice, safe, warm and fuzzy gameplay. Wanna 1 on 1 someone, just send them a duel invite. Get jumped by 2 people or someone much, much higher, scream ganker. Trying to kill a few mobs minding your own business and someone comes along attacking you or disrupting your gameplay, yell griefer. In my eyes you jump on a PvP server and you have no business or right to yell either of these, you chose a world where other players are free to attack you. In my eyes most of the PvPers today are cutting their teeth on games that offer mild PvP at best, PvP with a whole slew of rules and regulations. Is that their fault? Nope. You can only experience what games have to offer, and most new games try so hard to pander to all sides that they usually miss the mark on one of them. Look at WoW, considered by some to be a failure for PvP and look at WAR that some consider to be fail at PvE. There will be quite a few players where DF is their first ever online game or they might be very new to the genre and for those lucky few extreme Pvp will be the only kind of PvP they know. I may be in the minority on this but as far as I am concerned if you complain about griefing/ganking you do not belong on a FFA server, in fact I question your motive for even playing a PvP game. The people that scream ganking/griefing, at least to me are not serious PvPers. People want the thrill of PvP but they want a bunch of rules and regulations to make it as safe as possible. I am from a time where if I don't like your name, the spot you are hunting, your guild, you talking sh!t, hell the color of your armor I am free to kill you and kill you every time I run across you.
Anywho, kind of sad that the game you played wasn't all that hardcore. In AC the worst thing you could call someone was a Gimp, ie you're a gimp or your character is gimped etc. Guess back in EQ of 99 everyone ran around solo and only fought when the battles were even. In PvP games as far as I am concerned if you are running around solo you are just easy picking for those that are smart and run with a pack. By your thinking when I was running around in WAR on my WE and came across a lower level character that happend to be on our side of the map and I popped out and murdered him I was a ganker/griefer.
So guess this scenario makes me a griefer. As destro in Nordland you can fight the order around the 2 flags in town or the 1 at the docks. Or you could do like us and run around and get on the earthen bank for the order warcamp and run down past the patrols and get inside and massively slaughter the lowbies there. We would roll in and kill everyone we could, the players and NPC's, by your accounts we were griefing. If you wanna see some hilarious action mob into a lowbie warcamp and AoE the hell outta the place.
Won't be a scamming policy. Aventurine is not going to be able to afford many GM's and they will be mostly dealing with bugs, so they just won't even bother to reply to complaints of such.
Ozmodan seriously you are always welcome to post for good laughs but lately it has been outright trolling as you continue to post false info and crazy opinions as fact.
It seems financially they are doing fine....who are you to say they cant afford GMs? Just making stuff up since you cant call it vaporz anymore.
So they wont even bother to reply to complaints? Sorry did i miss the press annoucnement that detailed their GM policy and how they will respond to player requests?
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
...back in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP.
Nice post Splixx, but just wanted to discuss this point.
I played PvP EQ in '99, and griefing and ganking wasnt considered real PvP to most, anymore then training or zone plugging was. To call someone a Ganker or Griefer was an insult back then. To have a reputation of ganker or griefing was a bad thing. Both showed weak skills and both made you think twice about having them in your guild or group.
Which brings me to reputation.
In answer to the OP, I believe it will be reputation that will control scamming. Will I group with a proven scammer, or someone named a scammer by a friend I trust? Nope. Will I warn others of his actions? Yep.
DF looks like the return of accountable reputations in mmorpgs, which is fantastic. Having only 1 character per server is great
Plus, like people say, if you scam, you and your guild better be ready to fight to keep it. Again and again.
People don't forget things like that.
Hence the "in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP... ...The people that scream ganking/griefing, at least to me are not serious PvPers.
Whoa, easy there tiger...
I played on a open world/ contested name, no safe zone, coin/ item loot server in EQ. We fought other top level guilds in Raid Zones, and we fought to keep them out of common zones. We fought to not be ambushed when selling our items in the open world cities when there were no brokers. We fought for everything.
Call it what you want, but I consider that to be serious PvP.
If I ever call you a ganker, it's because you only attack people when they are on 50% health or less, or only attack others in zerg groups when you have a clear advantage and no risk, or whatever, and then puff your chest out and shout to everyone how 'hardcore' you are...
I would never try to stop anyone doing any one of these acts, it's hopefully a free world out there in DF, but yep I will think less of them if they repeatedly choose to, and go out of their way to, fight in a weak cowardly way. Especially if they then shout about their 'l337 sk1llz!' and how badass Dirty Harry they are... Thats just me.
Playing hardcore PvP dosent mean you have to be an asshat.
I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from.
DF is meant to be about freedom, and that means the freedom to play as I want to, as well as the freedom for you to play as you want to, without others telling me that I am not a 'serious PvPer' because of it.
I wouldnt even start this game if I wasnt up for the fight.
Anywho, kind of sad that the game you played wasn't all that hardcore.
hehe if you say so
Back on topic though, scamming will be hard I think because of, like I have said, reputation (the constantly re-rolled scamming character scenerio makes no sense at all btw) and the fact that Aventurine have already said there will be a robust trade mechanic;
"Trade your hard earned items using Darkfal's secure trade interface and in-game trade boards."
...back in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP.
Nice post Splixx, but just wanted to discuss this point.
I played PvP EQ in '99, and griefing and ganking wasnt considered real PvP to most, anymore then training or zone plugging was. To call someone a Ganker or Griefer was an insult back then. To have a reputation of ganker or griefing was a bad thing. Both showed weak skills and both made you think twice about having them in your guild or group.
Which brings me to reputation.
In answer to the OP, I believe it will be reputation that will control scamming. Will I group with a proven scammer, or someone named a scammer by a friend I trust? Nope. Will I warn others of his actions? Yep.
DF looks like the return of accountable reputations in mmorpgs, which is fantastic. Having only 1 character per server is great
Plus, like people say, if you scam, you and your guild better be ready to fight to keep it. Again and again.
People don't forget things like that.
Hence the "in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP... ...The people that scream ganking/griefing, at least to me are not serious PvPers.
Whoa, easy there tiger...
I played on a open world/ contested name, no safe zone, coin/ item loot server in EQ. We fought other top level guilds in Raid Zones, and we fought to keep them out of common zones. We fought to not be ambushed when selling our items in the open world cities when there were no brokers. We fought for everything.
Call it what you want, but I consider that to be serious PvP.
If I ever call you a ganker, it's because you only attack people when they are on 50% health or less, or only attack others in zerg groups when you have a clear advantage and no risk, or whatever, and then puff your chest out and shout to everyone how 'hardcore' you are...
I would never try to stop anyone doing any one of these acts, it's hopefully a free world out there in DF, but yep I will think less of them if they repeatedly choose to, and go out of their way to, fight in a weak cowardly way. Especially if they then shout about their 'l337 sk1llz!' and how badass Dirty Harry they are... Thats just me.
Playing hardcore PvP dosent mean you have to be an asshat.
I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from.
DF is meant to be about freedom, and that means the freedom to play as I want to, as well as the freedom for you to play as you want to, without others telling me that I am not a 'serious PvPer' because of it.
I wouldnt even start this game if I wasnt up for the fight.
Anywho, kind of sad that the game you played wasn't all that hardcore.
hehe if you say so
Back on topic though, scamming will be hard I think because of, like I have said, reputation (the constantly re-rolled scamming character scenerio makes no sense at all btw) and the fact that Aventurine have already said there will be a robust trade mechanic;
"Trade your hard earned items using Darkfal's secure trade interface and in-game trade boards."
Whoa, easy there zebra.... don't look at me you started it
Don't huff and puff and point your finger at me, point it at your fellow EQ'ers. Noone said gankers were ONLY people that attacked people ONLY at low health etc. That is your definition, if you are a pud that will sit there and wait for your enemy to regain health and buff up to fight you then I look forward to running across you at low health. If you are a white hat hero then by all means when the bad guy runs outta bullets throw your gun down and fight him hand to hand. It is comical that you even mention "ZERG" that is a concept of today's PvP games, where people whine that they are outnumbered. You might of started out in a "FFA" but you have been tamed by today's PvP standards, that much is obvious.
You call someone a ganker because they ONLY attack such and such, yet you have no clue as to whether that is all they do. You will get attacked at low health and just shout GANK, or you will get rolled up by a group of people and shout GANK. Not sure how long you will last, since your philosophy appears to be that people shouldn't attack others when they have a clear advantage, maybe you are just one of them people that sit there and spam out duel challenges who knows. I will agree with the spamming out how leet and awesome your PvP skills are, although whether it was an even fight or a "Gankfest" I don't brag either way. If I happen to win, I win, if I lose I lose.
I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from.
It is about freedom yet you are already labeling people for exercising their freedom, because someone doesn't play the way you think they should you call them gankers or griefers or zergs. If you want rules then don't bother with FFA. I will stick to my original assessment and say people that cry about FFA PvP are not serious PvP'ers. People that cry and whine about rules or the lack thereof are obviously not playing the right game to suit their playstyle. In a FFA world there is no such thing as ganking/griefing/zerging, those are just normal gameplay. If you want to be an anti or neutral PK that is your business, that is the impression I got from your post. If you are a whiner about such things, then I will repeat that you are not a serious PvP'er. If you don't like my opinion move along, trust me when I say you will not say anything to change my mind, nor should you even try. You have your ideas on what PvP is about, and what constitutes ganking/griefing/zerging and I have mine. Without PK's, anti's and neutrals might as well be playing on a regular server.
And with the whining that appears to be coming from some of the EQ crowd I do have serious doubts about how "HARDCORE" EQ was.
...back in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP.
Nice post Splixx, but just wanted to discuss this point.
I played PvP EQ in '99, and griefing and ganking wasnt considered real PvP to most, anymore then training or zone plugging was. To call someone a Ganker or Griefer was an insult back then. To have a reputation of ganker or griefing was a bad thing. Both showed weak skills and both made you think twice about having them in your guild or group.
Which brings me to reputation.
In answer to the OP, I believe it will be reputation that will control scamming. Will I group with a proven scammer, or someone named a scammer by a friend I trust? Nope. Will I warn others of his actions? Yep.
DF looks like the return of accountable reputations in mmorpgs, which is fantastic. Having only 1 character per server is great
Plus, like people say, if you scam, you and your guild better be ready to fight to keep it. Again and again.
People don't forget things like that.
Hence the "in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP... ...The people that scream ganking/griefing, at least to me are not serious PvPers.
Whoa, easy there tiger...
I played on a open world/ contested name, no safe zone, coin/ item loot server in EQ. We fought other top level guilds in Raid Zones, and we fought to keep them out of common zones. We fought to not be ambushed when selling our items in the open world cities when there were no brokers. We fought for everything.
Call it what you want, but I consider that to be serious PvP.
If I ever call you a ganker, it's because you only attack people when they are on 50% health or less, or only attack others in zerg groups when you have a clear advantage and no risk, or whatever, and then puff your chest out and shout to everyone how 'hardcore' you are...
I would never try to stop anyone doing any one of these acts, it's hopefully a free world out there in DF, but yep I will think less of them if they repeatedly choose to, and go out of their way to, fight in a weak cowardly way. Especially if they then shout about their 'l337 sk1llz!' and how badass Dirty Harry they are... Thats just me.
Playing hardcore PvP dosent mean you have to be an asshat.
I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from.
DF is meant to be about freedom, and that means the freedom to play as I want to, as well as the freedom for you to play as you want to, without others telling me that I am not a 'serious PvPer' because of it.
I wouldnt even start this game if I wasnt up for the fight.
Anywho, kind of sad that the game you played wasn't all that hardcore.
hehe if you say so
Back on topic though, scamming will be hard I think because of, like I have said, reputation (the constantly re-rolled scamming character scenerio makes no sense at all btw) and the fact that Aventurine have already said there will be a robust trade mechanic;
"Trade your hard earned items using Darkfal's secure trade interface and in-game trade boards."
Whoa, easy there zebra.... don't look at me you started it
I actually said 'nice post' to you Splix.. I wasnt looking for a petty sarcastic argument. Why are you taking this as a fight?
Don't huff and puff and point your finger at me,
Who is huffing and puffing? Who is finger pointing? I even said that I didnt know that if this was you that I was talking about...
I don't get the animosity here.
I thought we were just discussing PvP, not getting into an argument.
I also stated that DF was about the freedom for us all to play our way and impose our own defintions on our own game... Whats your beef with that?
You might of started out in a "FFA" but you have been tamed by today's PvP standards, that much is obvious.
Actually, I have always played the same.
I simply don't think you have to be a cheap asshat to play PvP.
DF offers us all what we want.. surely thats a good thing?
...duel challenges who knows.
No, I hate duels. they are pointless.
I will agree with the spamming out how leet and awesome your PvP skills are,
Well, at least theres no fight there eh?
although whether it was an even fight or a "Gankfest" I don't brag either way. If I happen to win, I win, if I lose I lose.
Why are you taking this to be all about you?
I quite clearly generalised, and even went so far as to write a disclaimer to say I didnt know if this was you or not I was talking about...
"I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from."
See?
It is about freedom yet you are already labeling people for exercising their freedom
Friend, you started with the labels, but y'know what?
Forget it.
Your way too angry to talk with. I can see why you choose to play the way that you do.
I'll leave the last, no doubt angry, words to you...
And with the whining that appears to be coming from some of the EQ crowd I do have serious doubts about how "HARDCORE" EQ was.
Whoa, easy there zebra.... don't look at me you started it I actually said 'nice post' to you Splix.. I wasnt looking for a petty sarcastic argument. Why are you taking this as a fight? Don't huff and puff and point your finger at me, Who is huffing and puffing? Who is finger pointing? I even said that I didnt know that if this was you that I was talking about... I don't get the animosity here. I thought we were just discussing PvP, not getting into an argument. I also stated that DF was about the freedom for us all to play our way and impose our own defintions on our own game... Whats your beef with that? You might of started out in a "FFA" but you have been tamed by today's PvP standards, that much is obvious. Actually, I have always played the same. I simply don't think you have to be a cheap asshat to play PvP. DF offers us all what we want.. surely thats a good thing? ...duel challenges who knows. No, I hate duels. they are pointless. I will agree with the spamming out how leet and awesome your PvP skills are, Well, at least theres no fight there eh? although whether it was an even fight or a "Gankfest" I don't brag either way. If I happen to win, I win, if I lose I lose. Why are you taking this to be all about you? I quite clearly generalised, and even went so far as to write a disclaimer to say I didnt know if this was you or not I was talking about... "I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from." See? It is about freedom yet you are already labeling people for exercising their freedom Friend, you started with the labels, but y'know what? Forget it. Your way too angry to talk with. I can see why you choose to play the way that you do. I'll leave the last, no doubt angry, words to you... And with the whining that appears to be coming from some of the EQ crowd I do have serious doubts about how "HARDCORE" EQ was. /sigh.
Oh wait I put up the disclaimers too, that makes it all ok. I was not the one that gave the appearance that EQ was soft and fuzzy, which I why I said that it was sad that the game wasn't hardcore, because it was made out to be that way. I didn't randomly bash or flame, I responded to what you wrote with what I thought was necessary. I didn't take your post as a personal attack on me either, you read what I wrote and wrote what you thought were counterpoints. I reread and it does look like my post is directed specifically at you and that wasn't necessarily intended, I was using "You" to generalize the population, although I can see a sentence or two where it wasn't clear and a few where I was actually talking to you.
You did say nice post, which is why I didn't take it as a personal attack. I used the zebra remark trying to set a lighter tone. Some of the things you said did make me question your "Hardcore or Serious PvP status". But that is my opinion on the subject, where I came from everything that people are already complaining about were just how the game was played. People want a FFA game but they immediately say well I don't want this to happen or this to happen etc. Free For All is just that, anything goes, supposedly no rules or at least not all that many. Your posts made it sound like you were either an Anti or Neutral PK, I am a PK. We will never agree on anything, two vastly different styles of gaming, but they are just that, styles of gaming. Not sure how you can construe my post as "Angry", only time I see angry posts are when I come across ones that are filled with cursing and ranting and raving like a lunatic, those people must be a riot at family reunions.
The people that are already planning the funeral service for DF based on Ganking/Griefing etc have probably not every really played a FFA game, and I am not talking about a game that says its FFA when it isn't necessarily so. Everyone bemoans ganking and griefing, yet it happens in every game that is out. Only difference is in a FFA world you actually have a chance to do something about it. There is not one person alive that plays any kind of PvP game that can say they have never ganked, griefed, or zerged. What you consider one thing, others will consider another. I am not a ganker or griefer, although I have done both. The only difference I can see is that a ganker and/or griefer goes out of their way to do these things on a fairly regular basis and with the express intent to ruin someone elses gameplay.
If my post offended you or seemed like a baseless attack on you I do apologize. I probably should of did like you and broke the post down rather than using one large lump.
*Tried to edit out a few of the things that were a bit more confusing without changing the overall gist of the message to much*
...back in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP.
Nice post Splixx, but just wanted to discuss this point.
I played PvP EQ in '99, and griefing and ganking wasnt considered real PvP to most, anymore then training or zone plugging was. To call someone a Ganker or Griefer was an insult back then. To have a reputation of ganker or griefing was a bad thing. Both showed weak skills and both made you think twice about having them in your guild or group.
Which brings me to reputation.
In answer to the OP, I believe it will be reputation that will control scamming. Will I group with a proven scammer, or someone named a scammer by a friend I trust? Nope. Will I warn others of his actions? Yep.
DF looks like the return of accountable reputations in mmorpgs, which is fantastic. Having only 1 character per server is great
Plus, like people say, if you scam, you and your guild better be ready to fight to keep it. Again and again.
People don't forget things like that.
Hence the "in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP... ...The people that scream ganking/griefing, at least to me are not serious PvPers.
Whoa, easy there tiger...
I played on a open world/ contested name, no safe zone, coin/ item loot server in EQ. We fought other top level guilds in Raid Zones, and we fought to keep them out of common zones. We fought to not be ambushed when selling our items in the open world cities when there were no brokers. We fought for everything.
Call it what you want, but I consider that to be serious PvP.
If I ever call you a ganker, it's because you only attack people when they are on 50% health or less, or only attack others in zerg groups when you have a clear advantage and no risk, or whatever, and then puff your chest out and shout to everyone how 'hardcore' you are...
I would never try to stop anyone doing any one of these acts, it's hopefully a free world out there in DF, but yep I will think less of them if they repeatedly choose to, and go out of their way to, fight in a weak cowardly way. Especially if they then shout about their 'l337 sk1llz!' and how badass Dirty Harry they are... Thats just me.
Playing hardcore PvP dosent mean you have to be an asshat.
I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from.
DF is meant to be about freedom, and that means the freedom to play as I want to, as well as the freedom for you to play as you want to, without others telling me that I am not a 'serious PvPer' because of it.
I wouldnt even start this game if I wasnt up for the fight.
Anywho, kind of sad that the game you played wasn't all that hardcore.
hehe if you say so
Back on topic though, scamming will be hard I think because of, like I have said, reputation (the constantly re-rolled scamming character scenerio makes no sense at all btw) and the fact that Aventurine have already said there will be a robust trade mechanic;
"Trade your hard earned items using Darkfal's secure trade interface and in-game trade boards."
Whoa, easy there zebra.... don't look at me you started it
I actually said 'nice post' to you Splix.. I wasnt looking for a petty sarcastic argument. Why are you taking this as a fight?
Don't huff and puff and point your finger at me,
Who is huffing and puffing? Who is finger pointing? I even said that I didnt know that if this was you that I was talking about...
I don't get the animosity here.
I thought we were just discussing PvP, not getting into an argument.
I also stated that DF was about the freedom for us all to play our way and impose our own defintions on our own game... Whats your beef with that?
You might of started out in a "FFA" but you have been tamed by today's PvP standards, that much is obvious.
Actually, I have always played the same.
I simply don't think you have to be a cheap asshat to play PvP.
DF offers us all what we want.. surely thats a good thing?
...duel challenges who knows.
No, I hate duels. they are pointless.
I will agree with the spamming out how leet and awesome your PvP skills are,
Well, at least theres no fight there eh?
although whether it was an even fight or a "Gankfest" I don't brag either way. If I happen to win, I win, if I lose I lose.
Why are you taking this to be all about you?
I quite clearly generalised, and even went so far as to write a disclaimer to say I didnt know if this was you or not I was talking about...
"I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from."
See?
It is about freedom yet you are already labeling people for exercising their freedom
Friend, you started with the labels, but y'know what?
Forget it.
Your way too angry to talk with. I can see why you choose to play the way that you do.
I'll leave the last, no doubt angry, words to you...
And with the whining that appears to be coming from some of the EQ crowd I do have serious doubts about how "HARDCORE" EQ was.
/sigh.
Oh wait I put up the disclaimers too, that makes it all ok.
If they clarify the tone of your post, then yes it does.
You jumped in the middle of a conversation I was having with someone else,
Well.. Thats just forums isnt it?
I guess you can always go to PM if you need a private conversation?
he is the one that name dropped EQ. Which I why I said that it was sad that his game wasn't hardcore, because he made it out to be that way.
Ahh.. I see... I just got splash damage eh? :P
I didn't randomly bash or flame, I responded to what you wrote with what I thought was necessary. I didn't take your post as a personal attack on me either, you read what I wrote and wrote what you thought were counterpoints. I reread and it does look like my post is directed specifically at you and that wasn't necessarily intended, I was using "You" to generalize the population,
OK, fair enough.
although I can see a sentence or two where it wasn't clear and a few where I was actually talking to you.
You did say nice post, which is why I didn't take it as a personal attack, but you went into EQ without really understanding why EQ was even brought up.
TBH, I hadnt even read a lot of the previous posts... I didnt even know EQ HAD been bought up heh.
I used the zebra remark trying to set a lighter tone.
ok, but it did come across as just sarcastic though...
Some of the things you said did make me question your "Hardcore or Serious PvP status".
I honestly think that anyone, at this point, that wants to play DF is in no doubt 'hardcore' enough.
We all understand the game and what it means, but the world WILL need explorers, crafters, adventurers, as well as killers. The server can'y simply be 100% filled with people RPing psychotic loons :P
But that is my opinion on the subject, where I came from everything that people are already complaining about were just how the game was played.
People want a FFA game but they immediately say well I don't want this to happen or this to happen etc.
I actually did say that I want that freedom, I want FFA, but a result of that freedom is my freedom to have whatver opinion I wish to about how other people choose to play.
Free For All is just that, anything goes, supposedly no rules or at least not all that many. Your posts made it sound like you were either an Anti or Neutral PK, I am a PK.
I am anti-pk, but in the most active way
We will never agree on anything, two vastly different styles of gaming, but they are just that, styles of gaming. Not sure how you can construe my post as "Angry", only time I see angry posts are when I come across ones that are filled with cursing and ranting and raving like a lunatic, those people must be a riot at family reunions.
The people that are already planning the funeral service for DF based on Ganking/Griefing etc
Well, this aint me... I'm 100% DF. It's actually my last gasp at MMORPG gaming. If this fails then I'm done. End of.
have probably not every really played a FFA game, and I am not talking about a game that says its FFA when it isn't necessarily so. Everyone bemoans ganking and griefing, yet it happens in every game that is out. Only difference is in a FFA world you actually have a chance to do something about it. There is not one person alive that plays any kind of PvP game that can say they have never ganked, griefed, or zerged. What you consider one thing, others will consider another. I am not a ganker or griefer, although I have done both. The only difference I can see is that a ganker and/or griefer goes out of their way to do these things on a fairly regular basis and with the express intent to ruin someone elses gameplay.
If my post offended you or seemed like a baseless attack on you I do apologize. I probably should of did like you and broke the post down rather than using one large lump.
Thats cool, thanks for this follow up post to clarify.
Comments
None. Thats it exactly. The feeling of being powerful. Maybe in the real non-game world, he works at Burger King in the back cleaning hoppers. Or maybe she's a gal Friday who has to get coffee for everyone all day. Or maybe they are kids in high school who are a Columbine just waiting to happen. Who knows? Who cares about the psychology of 'why'?
Darkfall will actually DEPEND on a segment of these people. Why? Well, just as you guys want to be "good" guys and don't gank, imagine if eveyone didn't gank? Then everyone would sit around crafting all day and fishing. It would be Happyland. You need conflict in a PvP game. Its how they work. Developers have to INVENT strife in normal pvp games "Ok, heres the story. You guys hate these guys forever. Now you have to kill them." Thats it. No real animosity other than cause they say so.
But if a "douchebag" says he wants to kill you, slave you, rip you off.. now you have a REAL reason to log on. You want to find everyone in the "Douchebag United" guild and kill them whenever. And anyone they know. Their family etc. It builds REAL reason to PvP.. not fighting for points or gear. Just "I hate that guy.. everytime I see them I am planting their faces".
So you must have gankers to shoot for.. Or if you are a ganker, you must have goodie goodies.
Gankers will never overwhelm the good guys. They never do. Name a game where the few gankers ruled it? Most guilds hunted them down like dogs.
So basically because people will want to vent their nerd rage? I'm not against the concept of taking things from people they don't want taken away, as long as its within the confines of the game's mechanics. I was a fairly successful bounty hunter in pre-nge swg and I had no problems killing someone and taking away all their xp gains. In fact, having them cry and moan about it and make idle threats was part of the fun and made me want to kill them over and over again. I killed one guy so many times in one week that he begged me to stop and I heard later on that he almost quit swg and was in crying over it vent because he had lost so much xp (he was a big shit talker, which was why I targeted him).
All that being said, I would never try and scam some random player just for kicks. If was talking shit, like the guy i made cry, then I might not have a problem with it. But just scamming people for the sake of scamming and making people you don't even know pissed and angry is not my style. Call me crazy (or, knowing the DF crowd, a carebear), but I don't take pleasure in causing people trouble or grief without a really good reason. I don't think games like DF are for me I guess.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I hope that players will take a better route, there will be most likely full on ganking guilds but hopefully mature players will use good will and conscious and players will help friends when they are scammed, and if you can't get revenge on said offender he it will add to his notoriety. that guy who talked you out of your "Axe of pwn" and then you couldn't defeat him or find someone who could deserves to get away with in that environment otherwise you shouldn't have trusted that person or been dealing at all with them. but there will always be those situations where people are exploited it happens in places with rules.
Edit: Additionally if there is stuff like that someone will start an organization who goes after these type of people, that actually sounds like a fun time.
well itll you sumthing else to do. i am going to be bount hunter/merc. to be hired to kill ppl who got on their nerve.
Personally, mentalities like this are what make games of this type epic fail.
I hope the community bands together to stomp attitudes like this out of existence.
GIGANTIC WALL OF TEXT ALERT!!!!!!!
Don't worry, I think they knew exactly what market they are going for. They are looking for people who really want to do what they want period. This has been said over and over. I know this is not what you want, but you have to understand, you are going to get a game where it is total freedom. Freedom isn't free or without consequences, youre just going to have to wake up to that fact with any sandbox game. It may not go as you want. Its like opening up democracy and voting to Hamas. Yeah, now you have elections, but look who the people want to elect.
I don't know. What is your personal limit? 50 times? 25 times? 1 time? This question can only be answered by each individual player. Everyone has a different pain/pleasure threshold. This cannot be answered in a forum. And if its rhetorical, why ask it?Who says there will be very few players left in this game? Do you know how many fans already knew about the possible gankers and stupid antics? They already know and are planning to kill them on sight. Again, in your assumptions you are thinking half of more of the people playing DF will be gankers. You have no way of knowing that, you can guess but its just that. A guess. Why not assume a positive outlook that MORE people will hate the gankers and hunt them down? I do. I know of no pvp game ever made to support what you think is gonna happen, but plenty where gankers were hunted, their reps ruined and they were shunned.
Again, I understand your fear but its unfounded. You are merely thinking the worst case scenario. It will have anarchy and strife, but out of chaos eventually comes order. Its the history of the world. Just read up on your history books. If it was the way you think, there wouldn't be people at all on the planet and worldwide anarchy. Games just imitate life. You say this has happened in every PvP game before. Where? A few gankers do not ruin the whole game. They only affect YOU personally if you let it. Most people shrug them in other games.. here you can fix them but good.
It's obvious you want a game that will fit your type of gameplay thats in your mind. That will not happen. You say over/over/over your fear, your concern, your worry that Darkfall will fail because of gankers. If it does fail, that won't be the reason. That will be the reason it makes it. Do you know how many people will come from other 'pvp' games to actually play REAL pvp? Quite a bit. They will only quit if the game stinks, not if they got ganked. Only the people who don't like the constant looking over the shoulder will not come. Look at any game where there is an option to have total open PvP server. They don't lack usually. There is usually plenty to fight all the time. Adventurine knows which crowd they are going after.. truly hardcore pvpers. This hs been stated so many times, its sickening to keep going over. Its obvious you do not consider yourself hardcore but thats fine. But you cannot sit here and say you fear the game will fail because it's not to your personal liking.
There are plenty of hardcore people who will disagree with you on this point and will come here because of it. They will not stay in WAR or AoC or WoW or Lotro or GW. Or any other game that has limited pvp.
I hate to say this but, Darkfall will probably not miss your $50. They already know what market they want and anything after that (the softer pvp folks) is gravy.
"TO MICHAEL!"
@ Templarga
Don't get me wrong, your posts are usually well thought out and presented and explain your position clear. However from reading your posts here and on other threads I am starting to think more and more that maybe this type of game isn't for you. You seem to be overly fixated on ganking/griefing and how it will kill the game or drive players away. Not sure how much experience you have in a FFA PvP game, I played on Darktide which is very similiar to what DF is claiming to be. There were no rules and noone to cry to. There were no rezzes, if you were PK'ed you lost a good chunk of loot, items, weaps, armor etc. People would camp lifestones or portal drops just to gank. If you died from a monster you had to run back from your lifestone, usually missing a piece or two of your armor, to retrieve your body and whatever was on your corpse. You would be in the middle of fighting a mob and someone would hit ya with a few debuffs and wade on it and attack you, in the middle of selling or buying at a merchant, better keep an eye out for the guy coming in to gank you. In AC you never went near any town other than your monarchy's without fully buffing protections and banes. It was a true free for all experience, back in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP. There were no guarantees, no whining, no calling finsies or time outs, it was kill or be killed. It is today's gamers that don't have any experience in a true FFA game that worry about ganking and griefing. You can trust me when I say that you will be ganked, you will be griefed, but you will have the opportunity to get even. Not attacking or flaming you, so don't think that. Just go in with an open mind. If you feel that the ganking/griefing is to much then you tried the game and it wasn't for you. But trust me when I say that no matter how much might hate the ganking/griefing there will be those that truly love it and enjoy it.
@ OP
It is my sincere hope that they will not try to micro-manage the player conduct. To me it should be short of hacks/cheats/exploits they should leave the population alone and let the players sort it out. Give us the world to play in and let the players decide what the rules and consequences shall be.
A little off topic but an example. In AC-Darktide it was anything goes, my younger brother and I played there for almost 3 years. We quit and a bit later we went back and played with our older brother on Morningthaw, which was a carebear or regular server. In AC there was no scale on xp, whatever the monster was worth was what it was worth no matter what your level. If you were level 80 and killed a level 1 monster you still got at least 1xp. If you were level one and killed a level 30 monster you got a huge chunk of xp. We took our knowledge of powerleving and such to the carebear world. There was a spot up by Neysdia castle and the Matty cave where Olthoi were positioned around a rock with a small cave beneath it. It was right next to a cliff, you could run up the rock and attack the olthoi around it. At the base of the rock an olthoi would spawn and run up and attack. Taking a higher level you could kill this one olthoi and then bring a level 1 up there and debuff the monsters and buff the hell out of the lowbie, he could kill them and level rather fast. We took our brother and some of his monarchy members and showed them this gem of a spot. Well they got a bit pissy one time so we would just run the olthoi up the rock and laugh our c0cks off when it would decimate them. They cried griefing and reported us, I was actually teleported by the GM's and confronted and told to desist immediately. This was fair in that I was playing on a regular server but still playing like I was on Darktide. It was fair in the extreme PvP world of Darktide but not ok in the regular server, what is griefing in one instance was just normal gameplay in another. On regular servers they monitored and were pretty strict on the rules, you could not do anything that would take away from anothers joy of the game. In Darktide they pretty much said, awww the hell with it, kill eachother however you want.
Damn I sure do love the TL;DR posts, sorry guys. I get started and sometimes just keep going.
LOL what are the odd's, I was going to play an anti-merc, to be hired to hunt down and kill merc's who where hired to hunt down and kill ppl who got on other ppl's nerve's, Wow that's cosmic man, that's like fate, cya in game
LOL what are the odd's, I was going to play an anti-merc, to be hired to hunt down and kill merc's who where hired to hunt down and kill ppl who got on other ppl's nerve's, Wow that's cosmic man, that's like fate, cya in game
Just upgrade it to killing everyone :P
O_o o_O
LOL what are the odd's, I was going to play an anti-merc, to be hired to hunt down and kill merc's who where hired to hunt down and kill ppl who got on other ppl's nerve's, Wow that's cosmic man, that's like fate, cya in game
Just upgrade it to killing everyone :P
No no, but I'll keep my eye on you, sounds like you could bring a lot of business my way
scammers will just die and drop everything lol
seems the best answert.. Also if you are stupid enough to give a total stranger something you are an idiot, would you give a stranger your diamond braclet?
Ok, say you scam someone. They will inform their guild and the community of your activities. You are killed on site by anyone who remembers your name or the bounty put on your head.
You can no longer walk safely in any large city. A few days later, due to constant griefing and pressure you delete your charecter. Honestly you would be better off killing the enemy faction for loot. However, since its a sandbox game, the choice is yours.
Watch Led Zeppelin, Darkfall Tribute
Watch Johnny Cash, Darkfall Tribute
Nice post Splixx, but just wanted to discuss this point.
I played PvP EQ in '99, and griefing and ganking wasnt considered real PvP to most, anymore then training or zone plugging was. To call someone a Ganker or Griefer was an insult back then. To have a reputation of ganker or griefing was a bad thing. Both showed weak skills and both made you think twice about having them in your guild or group.
Which brings me to reputation.
In answer to the OP, I believe it will be reputation that will control scamming. Will I group with a proven scammer, or someone named a scammer by a friend I trust? Nope. Will I warn others of his actions? Yep.
DF looks like the return of accountable reputations in mmorpgs, which is fantastic. Having only 1 character per server is great
Plus, like people say, if you scam, you and your guild better be ready to fight to keep it. Again and again.
People don't forget things like that.
LOL what are the odd's, I was going to play an anti-merc, to be hired to hunt down and kill merc's who where hired to hunt down and kill ppl who got on other ppl's nerve's, Wow that's cosmic man, that's like fate, cya in game
Now you arn't going to believe this but.... I was going to play the anti-merc headhunter, taking contracts on those out to kill the mercs hired to kill those who ganked the wrong man. Cyas in game.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
How about you see a ganker who's know for killing. So you pretend to 'join' him in his killing/gank sprees, expressing your distaste for carebears. Then when you guys go out, let him attack and slowly move behind the guy. Then you put about 30 arrows in his back while he gets cut down from the front. Problem solved.
Thats the ultimate funny, cause that's exactly what gankers do. I remember in Diablo, you'd get a guy would talk all nice in town "yeah, let's go kick Diablo's butt." So you hit the dungeons and for a bit, everything is fine. Then after about 10 minutes (always seemed to be the limit; I don't think they could control themselves with the anticipation) after some mob fight where you are almost dead, this guy would finish you off. I remember that happening and the first time I was really mad. Then the guy starts dropping all these other people's ears along with mine. But later, I learned to ignore those kind of guys, little clues gave it away.
Just turn the tables on a ganker if you don't like the ganking. Just gank gankers. But the key is, play how YOU want, not how developers script you to play.
"TO MICHAEL!"
If it's anything like UO, the "scammers" will be blue, and do their scamming in cities surrounded by guards. You attack them, you become a criminal, and the guard kills you. In the wilderness, you attack them, you become a criminal, and their friends kill you since you're now "grey" and can be killed with impunity.
The idea that there's any kind of justice in an online game where "death" is an inconvenience is foolish. "Kill him and take his stuff!"? Odds are, he's wearing newbie robes and the only "stuff" he will have is what he just scammed from you -- and do you think he'd scam you without an escape plan? Even if he dies 75% of the time he scams -- unlikely -- he'll still get away with loot he couldn't have gotten otherwise enough times to make it more than worth the effort. Oh, he'll get a "bad rep" and people won't deal with him? He gives all of his scammed goods to a friend, deletes his character, and rerolls. He might do this many times a day. He doesn't care about leveling up or gaining skills, he's just in it for the lulz -- what does he care how many characters he goes through? As long as he has a RL friend he trusts with the loot -- or is doing it to help out a guild -- or has a second account -- he's untouchable and unstoppable without a banhammer.
I love how people assume they'll always be the winners in any interaction. "If someone's a jerk, kill him!" Did it ever occur to you folks he'll probably kill you first? There's no magic "Kill the jerk" button, and since jerks outnumber non-jerks (just look at the people in this thread for proof), you're more likely to be the victim than the hero.
Won't be a scamming policy. Aventurine is not going to be able to afford many GM's and they will be mostly dealing with bugs, so they just won't even bother to reply to complaints of such.
As to killing, remember, you don't kill your own faction, that can lead to very bad things. I think scamming will be less likely in this game, because you will kill other factions and scamming in your own faction will get you blacklisted.
Im sure luring will be big in this game. "LFM to kill xx boss monster" and then he leads the unsuspecting out into the woods to his friends. But then you could always allow yourself to be lured and just bring more friends
Nice post Splixx, but just wanted to discuss this point.
I played PvP EQ in '99, and griefing and ganking wasnt considered real PvP to most, anymore then training or zone plugging was. To call someone a Ganker or Griefer was an insult back then. To have a reputation of ganker or griefing was a bad thing. Both showed weak skills and both made you think twice about having them in your guild or group.
Which brings me to reputation.
In answer to the OP, I believe it will be reputation that will control scamming. Will I group with a proven scammer, or someone named a scammer by a friend I trust? Nope. Will I warn others of his actions? Yep.
DF looks like the return of accountable reputations in mmorpgs, which is fantastic. Having only 1 character per server is great
Plus, like people say, if you scam, you and your guild better be ready to fight to keep it. Again and again.
People don't forget things like that.
Hence the "in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP." Whatever game you might of played might of had different thoughts on a wide range of things. On Darktide it was anything goes, no rules, no whining. So if you have a world where there are simply no rules, there can be no such thing as ganking or griefing, you just had gameplay. In games today you get nice, safe, warm and fuzzy gameplay. Wanna 1 on 1 someone, just send them a duel invite. Get jumped by 2 people or someone much, much higher, scream ganker. Trying to kill a few mobs minding your own business and someone comes along attacking you or disrupting your gameplay, yell griefer. In my eyes you jump on a PvP server and you have no business or right to yell either of these, you chose a world where other players are free to attack you. In my eyes most of the PvPers today are cutting their teeth on games that offer mild PvP at best, PvP with a whole slew of rules and regulations. Is that their fault? Nope. You can only experience what games have to offer, and most new games try so hard to pander to all sides that they usually miss the mark on one of them. Look at WoW, considered by some to be a failure for PvP and look at WAR that some consider to be fail at PvE. There will be quite a few players where DF is their first ever online game or they might be very new to the genre and for those lucky few extreme Pvp will be the only kind of PvP they know. I may be in the minority on this but as far as I am concerned if you complain about griefing/ganking you do not belong on a FFA server, in fact I question your motive for even playing a PvP game. The people that scream ganking/griefing, at least to me are not serious PvPers. People want the thrill of PvP but they want a bunch of rules and regulations to make it as safe as possible. I am from a time where if I don't like your name, the spot you are hunting, your guild, you talking sh!t, hell the color of your armor I am free to kill you and kill you every time I run across you.
Anywho, kind of sad that the game you played wasn't all that hardcore. In AC the worst thing you could call someone was a Gimp, ie you're a gimp or your character is gimped etc. Guess back in EQ of 99 everyone ran around solo and only fought when the battles were even. In PvP games as far as I am concerned if you are running around solo you are just easy picking for those that are smart and run with a pack. By your thinking when I was running around in WAR on my WE and came across a lower level character that happend to be on our side of the map and I popped out and murdered him I was a ganker/griefer.
So guess this scenario makes me a griefer. As destro in Nordland you can fight the order around the 2 flags in town or the 1 at the docks. Or you could do like us and run around and get on the earthen bank for the order warcamp and run down past the patrols and get inside and massively slaughter the lowbies there. We would roll in and kill everyone we could, the players and NPC's, by your accounts we were griefing. If you wanna see some hilarious action mob into a lowbie warcamp and AoE the hell outta the place.
Ozmodan seriously you are always welcome to post for good laughs but lately it has been outright trolling as you continue to post false info and crazy opinions as fact.
It seems financially they are doing fine....who are you to say they cant afford GMs? Just making stuff up since you cant call it vaporz anymore.
So they wont even bother to reply to complaints? Sorry did i miss the press annoucnement that detailed their GM policy and how they will respond to player requests?
Please.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Nice post Splixx, but just wanted to discuss this point.
I played PvP EQ in '99, and griefing and ganking wasnt considered real PvP to most, anymore then training or zone plugging was. To call someone a Ganker or Griefer was an insult back then. To have a reputation of ganker or griefing was a bad thing. Both showed weak skills and both made you think twice about having them in your guild or group.
Which brings me to reputation.
In answer to the OP, I believe it will be reputation that will control scamming. Will I group with a proven scammer, or someone named a scammer by a friend I trust? Nope. Will I warn others of his actions? Yep.
DF looks like the return of accountable reputations in mmorpgs, which is fantastic. Having only 1 character per server is great
Plus, like people say, if you scam, you and your guild better be ready to fight to keep it. Again and again.
People don't forget things like that.
Hence the "in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP... ...The people that scream ganking/griefing, at least to me are not serious PvPers.
Whoa, easy there tiger...
I played on a open world/ contested name, no safe zone, coin/ item loot server in EQ. We fought other top level guilds in Raid Zones, and we fought to keep them out of common zones. We fought to not be ambushed when selling our items in the open world cities when there were no brokers. We fought for everything.
Call it what you want, but I consider that to be serious PvP.
If I ever call you a ganker, it's because you only attack people when they are on 50% health or less, or only attack others in zerg groups when you have a clear advantage and no risk, or whatever, and then puff your chest out and shout to everyone how 'hardcore' you are...
I would never try to stop anyone doing any one of these acts, it's hopefully a free world out there in DF, but yep I will think less of them if they repeatedly choose to, and go out of their way to, fight in a weak cowardly way. Especially if they then shout about their 'l337 sk1llz!' and how badass Dirty Harry they are... Thats just me.
Playing hardcore PvP dosent mean you have to be an asshat.
I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from.
DF is meant to be about freedom, and that means the freedom to play as I want to, as well as the freedom for you to play as you want to, without others telling me that I am not a 'serious PvPer' because of it.
I wouldnt even start this game if I wasnt up for the fight.
Anywho, kind of sad that the game you played wasn't all that hardcore.
hehe if you say so
Back on topic though, scamming will be hard I think because of, like I have said, reputation (the constantly re-rolled scamming character scenerio makes no sense at all btw) and the fact that Aventurine have already said there will be a robust trade mechanic;
"Trade your hard earned items using Darkfal's secure trade interface and in-game trade boards."
Nice post Splixx, but just wanted to discuss this point.
I played PvP EQ in '99, and griefing and ganking wasnt considered real PvP to most, anymore then training or zone plugging was. To call someone a Ganker or Griefer was an insult back then. To have a reputation of ganker or griefing was a bad thing. Both showed weak skills and both made you think twice about having them in your guild or group.
Which brings me to reputation.
In answer to the OP, I believe it will be reputation that will control scamming. Will I group with a proven scammer, or someone named a scammer by a friend I trust? Nope. Will I warn others of his actions? Yep.
DF looks like the return of accountable reputations in mmorpgs, which is fantastic. Having only 1 character per server is great
Plus, like people say, if you scam, you and your guild better be ready to fight to keep it. Again and again.
People don't forget things like that.
Hence the "in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP... ...The people that scream ganking/griefing, at least to me are not serious PvPers.
Whoa, easy there tiger...
I played on a open world/ contested name, no safe zone, coin/ item loot server in EQ. We fought other top level guilds in Raid Zones, and we fought to keep them out of common zones. We fought to not be ambushed when selling our items in the open world cities when there were no brokers. We fought for everything.
Call it what you want, but I consider that to be serious PvP.
If I ever call you a ganker, it's because you only attack people when they are on 50% health or less, or only attack others in zerg groups when you have a clear advantage and no risk, or whatever, and then puff your chest out and shout to everyone how 'hardcore' you are...
I would never try to stop anyone doing any one of these acts, it's hopefully a free world out there in DF, but yep I will think less of them if they repeatedly choose to, and go out of their way to, fight in a weak cowardly way. Especially if they then shout about their 'l337 sk1llz!' and how badass Dirty Harry they are... Thats just me.
Playing hardcore PvP dosent mean you have to be an asshat.
I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from.
DF is meant to be about freedom, and that means the freedom to play as I want to, as well as the freedom for you to play as you want to, without others telling me that I am not a 'serious PvPer' because of it.
I wouldnt even start this game if I wasnt up for the fight.
Anywho, kind of sad that the game you played wasn't all that hardcore.
hehe if you say so
Back on topic though, scamming will be hard I think because of, like I have said, reputation (the constantly re-rolled scamming character scenerio makes no sense at all btw) and the fact that Aventurine have already said there will be a robust trade mechanic;
"Trade your hard earned items using Darkfal's secure trade interface and in-game trade boards."
Whoa, easy there zebra.... don't look at me you started it
Don't huff and puff and point your finger at me, point it at your fellow EQ'ers. Noone said gankers were ONLY people that attacked people ONLY at low health etc. That is your definition, if you are a pud that will sit there and wait for your enemy to regain health and buff up to fight you then I look forward to running across you at low health. If you are a white hat hero then by all means when the bad guy runs outta bullets throw your gun down and fight him hand to hand. It is comical that you even mention "ZERG" that is a concept of today's PvP games, where people whine that they are outnumbered. You might of started out in a "FFA" but you have been tamed by today's PvP standards, that much is obvious.
You call someone a ganker because they ONLY attack such and such, yet you have no clue as to whether that is all they do. You will get attacked at low health and just shout GANK, or you will get rolled up by a group of people and shout GANK. Not sure how long you will last, since your philosophy appears to be that people shouldn't attack others when they have a clear advantage, maybe you are just one of them people that sit there and spam out duel challenges who knows. I will agree with the spamming out how leet and awesome your PvP skills are, although whether it was an even fight or a "Gankfest" I don't brag either way. If I happen to win, I win, if I lose I lose.
I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from.
It is about freedom yet you are already labeling people for exercising their freedom, because someone doesn't play the way you think they should you call them gankers or griefers or zergs. If you want rules then don't bother with FFA. I will stick to my original assessment and say people that cry about FFA PvP are not serious PvP'ers. People that cry and whine about rules or the lack thereof are obviously not playing the right game to suit their playstyle. In a FFA world there is no such thing as ganking/griefing/zerging, those are just normal gameplay. If you want to be an anti or neutral PK that is your business, that is the impression I got from your post. If you are a whiner about such things, then I will repeat that you are not a serious PvP'er. If you don't like my opinion move along, trust me when I say you will not say anything to change my mind, nor should you even try. You have your ideas on what PvP is about, and what constitutes ganking/griefing/zerging and I have mine. Without PK's, anti's and neutrals might as well be playing on a regular server.
And with the whining that appears to be coming from some of the EQ crowd I do have serious doubts about how "HARDCORE" EQ was.
Nice post Splixx, but just wanted to discuss this point.
I played PvP EQ in '99, and griefing and ganking wasnt considered real PvP to most, anymore then training or zone plugging was. To call someone a Ganker or Griefer was an insult back then. To have a reputation of ganker or griefing was a bad thing. Both showed weak skills and both made you think twice about having them in your guild or group.
Which brings me to reputation.
In answer to the OP, I believe it will be reputation that will control scamming. Will I group with a proven scammer, or someone named a scammer by a friend I trust? Nope. Will I warn others of his actions? Yep.
DF looks like the return of accountable reputations in mmorpgs, which is fantastic. Having only 1 character per server is great
Plus, like people say, if you scam, you and your guild better be ready to fight to keep it. Again and again.
People don't forget things like that.
Hence the "in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP... ...The people that scream ganking/griefing, at least to me are not serious PvPers.
Whoa, easy there tiger...
I played on a open world/ contested name, no safe zone, coin/ item loot server in EQ. We fought other top level guilds in Raid Zones, and we fought to keep them out of common zones. We fought to not be ambushed when selling our items in the open world cities when there were no brokers. We fought for everything.
Call it what you want, but I consider that to be serious PvP.
If I ever call you a ganker, it's because you only attack people when they are on 50% health or less, or only attack others in zerg groups when you have a clear advantage and no risk, or whatever, and then puff your chest out and shout to everyone how 'hardcore' you are...
I would never try to stop anyone doing any one of these acts, it's hopefully a free world out there in DF, but yep I will think less of them if they repeatedly choose to, and go out of their way to, fight in a weak cowardly way. Especially if they then shout about their 'l337 sk1llz!' and how badass Dirty Harry they are... Thats just me.
Playing hardcore PvP dosent mean you have to be an asshat.
I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from.
DF is meant to be about freedom, and that means the freedom to play as I want to, as well as the freedom for you to play as you want to, without others telling me that I am not a 'serious PvPer' because of it.
I wouldnt even start this game if I wasnt up for the fight.
Anywho, kind of sad that the game you played wasn't all that hardcore.
hehe if you say so
Back on topic though, scamming will be hard I think because of, like I have said, reputation (the constantly re-rolled scamming character scenerio makes no sense at all btw) and the fact that Aventurine have already said there will be a robust trade mechanic;
"Trade your hard earned items using Darkfal's secure trade interface and in-game trade boards."
Whoa, easy there zebra.... don't look at me you started it
I actually said 'nice post' to you Splix.. I wasnt looking for a petty sarcastic argument. Why are you taking this as a fight?
Don't huff and puff and point your finger at me,
Who is huffing and puffing? Who is finger pointing? I even said that I didnt know that if this was you that I was talking about...
I don't get the animosity here.
I thought we were just discussing PvP, not getting into an argument.
I also stated that DF was about the freedom for us all to play our way and impose our own defintions on our own game... Whats your beef with that?
You might of started out in a "FFA" but you have been tamed by today's PvP standards, that much is obvious.
Actually, I have always played the same.
I simply don't think you have to be a cheap asshat to play PvP.
DF offers us all what we want.. surely thats a good thing?
...duel challenges who knows.
No, I hate duels. they are pointless.
I will agree with the spamming out how leet and awesome your PvP skills are,
Well, at least theres no fight there eh?
although whether it was an even fight or a "Gankfest" I don't brag either way. If I happen to win, I win, if I lose I lose.
Why are you taking this to be all about you?
I quite clearly generalised, and even went so far as to write a disclaimer to say I didnt know if this was you or not I was talking about...
"I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from."
See?
It is about freedom yet you are already labeling people for exercising their freedom
Friend, you started with the labels, but y'know what?
Forget it.
Your way too angry to talk with. I can see why you choose to play the way that you do.
I'll leave the last, no doubt angry, words to you...
And with the whining that appears to be coming from some of the EQ crowd I do have serious doubts about how "HARDCORE" EQ was.
/sigh.
Oh wait I put up the disclaimers too, that makes it all ok. I was not the one that gave the appearance that EQ was soft and fuzzy, which I why I said that it was sad that the game wasn't hardcore, because it was made out to be that way. I didn't randomly bash or flame, I responded to what you wrote with what I thought was necessary. I didn't take your post as a personal attack on me either, you read what I wrote and wrote what you thought were counterpoints. I reread and it does look like my post is directed specifically at you and that wasn't necessarily intended, I was using "You" to generalize the population, although I can see a sentence or two where it wasn't clear and a few where I was actually talking to you.
You did say nice post, which is why I didn't take it as a personal attack. I used the zebra remark trying to set a lighter tone. Some of the things you said did make me question your "Hardcore or Serious PvP status". But that is my opinion on the subject, where I came from everything that people are already complaining about were just how the game was played. People want a FFA game but they immediately say well I don't want this to happen or this to happen etc. Free For All is just that, anything goes, supposedly no rules or at least not all that many. Your posts made it sound like you were either an Anti or Neutral PK, I am a PK. We will never agree on anything, two vastly different styles of gaming, but they are just that, styles of gaming. Not sure how you can construe my post as "Angry", only time I see angry posts are when I come across ones that are filled with cursing and ranting and raving like a lunatic, those people must be a riot at family reunions.
The people that are already planning the funeral service for DF based on Ganking/Griefing etc have probably not every really played a FFA game, and I am not talking about a game that says its FFA when it isn't necessarily so. Everyone bemoans ganking and griefing, yet it happens in every game that is out. Only difference is in a FFA world you actually have a chance to do something about it. There is not one person alive that plays any kind of PvP game that can say they have never ganked, griefed, or zerged. What you consider one thing, others will consider another. I am not a ganker or griefer, although I have done both. The only difference I can see is that a ganker and/or griefer goes out of their way to do these things on a fairly regular basis and with the express intent to ruin someone elses gameplay.
If my post offended you or seemed like a baseless attack on you I do apologize. I probably should of did like you and broke the post down rather than using one large lump.
*Tried to edit out a few of the things that were a bit more confusing without changing the overall gist of the message to much*
Nice post Splixx, but just wanted to discuss this point.
I played PvP EQ in '99, and griefing and ganking wasnt considered real PvP to most, anymore then training or zone plugging was. To call someone a Ganker or Griefer was an insult back then. To have a reputation of ganker or griefing was a bad thing. Both showed weak skills and both made you think twice about having them in your guild or group.
Which brings me to reputation.
In answer to the OP, I believe it will be reputation that will control scamming. Will I group with a proven scammer, or someone named a scammer by a friend I trust? Nope. Will I warn others of his actions? Yep.
DF looks like the return of accountable reputations in mmorpgs, which is fantastic. Having only 1 character per server is great
Plus, like people say, if you scam, you and your guild better be ready to fight to keep it. Again and again.
People don't forget things like that.
Hence the "in AC ganking and griefing was simply called PvP... ...The people that scream ganking/griefing, at least to me are not serious PvPers.
Whoa, easy there tiger...
I played on a open world/ contested name, no safe zone, coin/ item loot server in EQ. We fought other top level guilds in Raid Zones, and we fought to keep them out of common zones. We fought to not be ambushed when selling our items in the open world cities when there were no brokers. We fought for everything.
Call it what you want, but I consider that to be serious PvP.
If I ever call you a ganker, it's because you only attack people when they are on 50% health or less, or only attack others in zerg groups when you have a clear advantage and no risk, or whatever, and then puff your chest out and shout to everyone how 'hardcore' you are...
I would never try to stop anyone doing any one of these acts, it's hopefully a free world out there in DF, but yep I will think less of them if they repeatedly choose to, and go out of their way to, fight in a weak cowardly way. Especially if they then shout about their 'l337 sk1llz!' and how badass Dirty Harry they are... Thats just me.
Playing hardcore PvP dosent mean you have to be an asshat.
I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from.
DF is meant to be about freedom, and that means the freedom to play as I want to, as well as the freedom for you to play as you want to, without others telling me that I am not a 'serious PvPer' because of it.
I wouldnt even start this game if I wasnt up for the fight.
Anywho, kind of sad that the game you played wasn't all that hardcore.
hehe if you say so
Back on topic though, scamming will be hard I think because of, like I have said, reputation (the constantly re-rolled scamming character scenerio makes no sense at all btw) and the fact that Aventurine have already said there will be a robust trade mechanic;
"Trade your hard earned items using Darkfal's secure trade interface and in-game trade boards."
Whoa, easy there zebra.... don't look at me you started it
I actually said 'nice post' to you Splix.. I wasnt looking for a petty sarcastic argument. Why are you taking this as a fight?
Don't huff and puff and point your finger at me,
Who is huffing and puffing? Who is finger pointing? I even said that I didnt know that if this was you that I was talking about...
I don't get the animosity here.
I thought we were just discussing PvP, not getting into an argument.
I also stated that DF was about the freedom for us all to play our way and impose our own defintions on our own game... Whats your beef with that?
You might of started out in a "FFA" but you have been tamed by today's PvP standards, that much is obvious.
Actually, I have always played the same.
I simply don't think you have to be a cheap asshat to play PvP.
DF offers us all what we want.. surely thats a good thing?
...duel challenges who knows.
No, I hate duels. they are pointless.
I will agree with the spamming out how leet and awesome your PvP skills are,
Well, at least theres no fight there eh?
although whether it was an even fight or a "Gankfest" I don't brag either way. If I happen to win, I win, if I lose I lose.
Why are you taking this to be all about you?
I quite clearly generalised, and even went so far as to write a disclaimer to say I didnt know if this was you or not I was talking about...
"I don't know whether this is you, but hopefully it clears up where I am coming from."
See?
It is about freedom yet you are already labeling people for exercising their freedom
Friend, you started with the labels, but y'know what?
Forget it.
Your way too angry to talk with. I can see why you choose to play the way that you do.
I'll leave the last, no doubt angry, words to you...
And with the whining that appears to be coming from some of the EQ crowd I do have serious doubts about how "HARDCORE" EQ was.
/sigh.
Oh wait I put up the disclaimers too, that makes it all ok.
If they clarify the tone of your post, then yes it does.
You jumped in the middle of a conversation I was having with someone else,
Well.. Thats just forums isnt it?
I guess you can always go to PM if you need a private conversation?
he is the one that name dropped EQ. Which I why I said that it was sad that his game wasn't hardcore, because he made it out to be that way.
Ahh.. I see... I just got splash damage eh? :P
I didn't randomly bash or flame, I responded to what you wrote with what I thought was necessary. I didn't take your post as a personal attack on me either, you read what I wrote and wrote what you thought were counterpoints. I reread and it does look like my post is directed specifically at you and that wasn't necessarily intended, I was using "You" to generalize the population,
OK, fair enough.
although I can see a sentence or two where it wasn't clear and a few where I was actually talking to you.
You did say nice post, which is why I didn't take it as a personal attack, but you went into EQ without really understanding why EQ was even brought up.
TBH, I hadnt even read a lot of the previous posts... I didnt even know EQ HAD been bought up heh.
I used the zebra remark trying to set a lighter tone.
ok, but it did come across as just sarcastic though...
Some of the things you said did make me question your "Hardcore or Serious PvP status".
I honestly think that anyone, at this point, that wants to play DF is in no doubt 'hardcore' enough.
We all understand the game and what it means, but the world WILL need explorers, crafters, adventurers, as well as killers. The server can'y simply be 100% filled with people RPing psychotic loons :P
But that is my opinion on the subject, where I came from everything that people are already complaining about were just how the game was played.
People want a FFA game but they immediately say well I don't want this to happen or this to happen etc.
I actually did say that I want that freedom, I want FFA, but a result of that freedom is my freedom to have whatver opinion I wish to about how other people choose to play.
Free For All is just that, anything goes, supposedly no rules or at least not all that many. Your posts made it sound like you were either an Anti or Neutral PK, I am a PK.
I am anti-pk, but in the most active way
We will never agree on anything, two vastly different styles of gaming, but they are just that, styles of gaming. Not sure how you can construe my post as "Angry", only time I see angry posts are when I come across ones that are filled with cursing and ranting and raving like a lunatic, those people must be a riot at family reunions.
The people that are already planning the funeral service for DF based on Ganking/Griefing etc
Well, this aint me... I'm 100% DF. It's actually my last gasp at MMORPG gaming. If this fails then I'm done. End of.
have probably not every really played a FFA game, and I am not talking about a game that says its FFA when it isn't necessarily so. Everyone bemoans ganking and griefing, yet it happens in every game that is out. Only difference is in a FFA world you actually have a chance to do something about it. There is not one person alive that plays any kind of PvP game that can say they have never ganked, griefed, or zerged. What you consider one thing, others will consider another. I am not a ganker or griefer, although I have done both. The only difference I can see is that a ganker and/or griefer goes out of their way to do these things on a fairly regular basis and with the express intent to ruin someone elses gameplay.
If my post offended you or seemed like a baseless attack on you I do apologize. I probably should of did like you and broke the post down rather than using one large lump.
Thats cool, thanks for this follow up post to clarify.