"I was thinking about what games would be hit hardest after seeing comms in AoC about DF and who were interested in trying it out. To my surprise a lot were still going to stick with AoC. However I don't think WAR will be so lucky, my thoughts:
A) WAR has positioned itself as open RvR but I left the game due to it being a linear RvR. e.g. I hit level 13 in the middle of a RvR battle and I could not participate any more. Darkfall has true open PvP
Darfkall is a sandbox game and I realise WAR isn't but it has no RP element for guilds either or options to really own your own place or land. DF is sandbox with options for guilds to really carve out their own destiny.
C) War does not have great PvE like other titles such as Vanguard, AoC, LotRo etc. So the PvE lovers will probably stick with other titles but WAR does not have this hold.
D) PvP in WAR is too easy and dull IMO. PvPers will migrate to Darkfall as its a true PvP game.
In short WAR does not deliver enough in one area to really keep its numbers and Darkfall is positioned to take a lot of players who wanted large open PvP.
I may be wrong but as it stands I see the numbers falling on Xfire and I can see Darfall hitting WAR more than any other title. "
Isn't there a "Hate on WAR" thread here already?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Warhammer has and always will have a huge army of fans that will probably remain loyal to the IP no matter what , and to be fair it is a very solid game. ( although I personally have stopped playing)
I think the game in danger of being mostly affected by Darkfalls release will probably be Spellborn mainly because they release around about the same time and Spellborn have screwed up already with ridiculous IP blocking and splitting their playerbase up all over the place.
Anothe poster said that some Warhammer players probably wont even know Darkfall has released .. and dont forget whilst Darkfall seems to have a huge fanbase base, it does'nt mean to to say everybody is fan .
I havent been following the game - so what reason is there to pvp in Darkfall. When I have a craving for skill based pvp - I go get my butt kicked in an online shooter - like BF2 or Counter-strike.
What would make a casual player want to pay for the privilege of getting their butt kicked?
Don't worry, not everyone misunderstood your post.
To answer your question, darkfall has a much higher chance of actually developing a community which may attract people regardless of thes different style of PvP. From what is promised the game looks to be a lot deeper than Warhammer which is very shallow in its activities. I doubt the pull of darkfall will attract to many casuals, but you never know.
I think sandboxes will be the hardest hit (like EvE or UO). Followed by FFA PvP games, like Lin2 or SB (what's left of them). Then, yes, games with other kind of PvP implementation, like WAR, GW or what's left of DAoC. Finally, MMOs focused on PvE, like WoW or EQ2 (while they do have some pvp their main focus is PvE).
But all MMOs will be hit... unless they lose not even one account to DFO. How much will be the hit? We will have to wait and see what's DFO finally is... another DnL or the promised land? Or something in the middle?
FFA PvP with full loot and in a sandbox environment is a niche MMO, imho.
If you think playing Darkfall as a casual player will be hard, then you're completely wrong!Darkfall is a skill based game, there is no levels. You can put on any piece of armor, hold any weapon, and block with any shield from the first second you log into the game.
You can't use every skill in the game. A small number of skills are restricted by race. Most skills need to be purchased by getting training from an NPC. Certain skills can be gotten under the training of an actual player. Some skills can't be used until you reach a specific skill level of a prerequisite.
Hopefully this post clears up most misconceptions about skills.
I havent been following the game - so what reason is there to pvp in Darkfall. When I have a craving for skill based pvp - I go get my butt kicked in an online shooter - like BF2 or Counter-strike.
What would make a casual player want to pay for the privilege of getting their butt kicked?
So simple-minded you are. It's like you need every bit of reasoning explained to you.
Yep he is a prime example of a gamer who just isnt cut out for Darkfall. Not saying im better than you are you arent "leet" enough but just your attitude shows you aren't into the playstyle that the niche of Darkfall caters too.
You just dont "get it" and need a hand to hold. Which again is totally fine and whatever way you get enjoyment out of a game is good because thats what the games are here for.
But the last line in the original above quote is just so cringe worthy...it is like you are giving up before you even try.
This proves shadow's earlier post about the elitist snobbery. "If you don't get it, why should I bother trying to explain" You just aren't cut out to support the game that I think I would like to play, take your money elsewhere. Darkfall and Aventurine will run patches/updates/expansions on funding from hopes and dreams.
I don't think this game is cut out to last long, hopefully players that don't frequent forums such as this will not have the same attitude. I think it will give CS:S a run for its money in the worst community awards.
I havent been following the game - so what reason is there to pvp in Darkfall. When I have a craving for skill based pvp - I go get my butt kicked in an online shooter - like BF2 or Counter-strike.
What would make a casual player want to pay for the privilege of getting their butt kicked?
So simple-minded you are. It's like you need every bit of reasoning explained to you.
Yep he is a prime example of a gamer who just isnt cut out for Darkfall. Not saying im better than you are you arent "leet" enough but just your attitude shows you aren't into the playstyle that the niche of Darkfall caters too.
You just dont "get it" and need a hand to hold. Which again is totally fine and whatever way you get enjoyment out of a game is good because thats what the games are here for.
But the last line in the original above quote is just so cringe worthy...it is like you are giving up before you even try.
This proves shadow's earlier post about the elitist snobbery. "If you don't get it, why should I bother trying to explain" You just aren't cut out to support the game that I think I would like to play, take your money elsewhere. Darkfall and Aventurine will run patches/updates/expansions on funding from hopes and dreams.
I don't think this game is cut out to last long, hopefully players that don't frequent forums such as this will not have the same attitude. I think it will give CS:S a run for its money in the worst community awards.
Oh i have no problem trying to explain it to him, it is just that he has been around these forums long enough and has had it explained to him....but like many...he enjoys restating his opinion over and over and does not offer any discussion or even entertain the idea that he may be wrong or that others think differently.
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Oh i have no problem trying to explain it to him, it is just that he has been around these forums long enough and has had it explained to him....but like many...he enjoys restating his opinion over and over and does not offer any discussion or even entertain the idea that he may be wrong or that others think differently.
Of course I'm basing my judgments on the time I started looking at this game section again.
Edit - So what I meant by that is that I don't know poster's history, just going off what I read initially.
Once players discover that "sandbox" games are in fact "empty" games and "hardcore" gamers are "e-peen-stroking gankers" the small population left to fight over the gigantic world of Darkfall will make only a negligible impact on all current MMO games after the initial free trial is over.
Even the Darkfall forums here on MMORPG.com will be just as busy, at least for a while, with the gloating fanbois replaced by derisive ex-players who listened to the hype rather than learning what this game is really about (and avoiding it).
Once players discover that "sandbox" games are in fact "empty" games and "hardcore" gamers are "e-peen-stroking gankers" the small population left to fight over the gigantic world of Darkfall will make only a negligible impact on all current MMO games after the initial free trial is over. Even the Darkfall forums here on MMORPG.com will be just as busy, at least for a while, with the gloating fanbois replaced by derisive ex-players who listened to the hype rather than learning what this game is really about (and avoiding it).
I disagree with teh characterization of sandbox games. I would say that this does describe some attempts to create sandbox games, but we have yet to see a very well polished, elegantly designed sandbox game.
I don't think we will see the true potential of sandbox design until a company like Blizzard releases a truly polished, AAA sandbox title.
Take the sandbox design, adn do to that what Blizzard did to EQ, adn then will will know if it works or not. So far we've seen buggy games, games with missing features, and games with flawed features so it's really hard to judge the potential of this genre.
Obviously I don't expect this out of Aventurine. If they produce a solid game that can survive, good and well, it's another small step in the right direction. I don't expect an inexperienced team to be Blizzard right out of the gate.
I was thinking about what games would be hit hardest after seeing comms in AoC about DF and who were interested in trying it out. To my surprise a lot were still going to stick with AoC. However I don't think WAR will be so lucky, my thoughts: A) WAR has positioned itself as open RvR but I left the game due to it being a linear RvR. e.g. I hit level 13 in the middle of a RvR battle and I could not participate any more. Darkfall has true open PvP
Darfkall is a sandbox game and I realise WAR isn't but it has no RP element for guilds either or options to really own your own place or land. DF is sandbox with options for guilds to really carve out their own destiny.
C) War does not have great PvE like other titles such as Vanguard, AoC, LotRo etc. So the PvE lovers will probably stick with other titles but WAR does not have this hold. D) PvP in WAR is too easy and dull IMO. PvPers will migrate to Darkfall as its a true PvP game. In short WAR does not deliver enough in one area to really keep its numbers and Darkfall is positioned to take a lot of players who wanted large open PvP. I may be wrong but as it stands I see the numbers falling on Xfire and I can see Darfall hitting WAR more than any other title.
From someone that tries to convince people that AOC is a great game in EVERY single post, I find this post interesting. Enough said.
I think stating I try and convince people that AoC is a great game in EVERY single post is a little over the top don't you think? I may post about AoC on other threads because I do get annoyed at some of the blatant lies people spew about the game and considering what is out there its not a bad alternative at all.
In saying all that I wrote this thread because A) I played WAR because I am a huge fan of the lore and some retard developer spewed about how much PvP there would be 2 years prior to launch. So for everyone else stating that the crowd in WAR is different to DF are wrong. Myself and my friends bought WAR at launch thinking it would be open RvR but it didn't live up to the hype and so we quit. Most of us are playing AoC but I can safely say we will all be buying DF at launch. If it fails I will remain with AoC until Jumpgate Evolution comes out.
So yes I enjoy AoC and yes I will be jumping into DF at launch, I can enjoy more than one game you know.
Warhammer has and always will have a huge army of fans that will probably remain loyal to the IP no matter what , and to be fair it is a very solid game. ( although I personally have stopped playing) I think the game in danger of being mostly affected by Darkfalls release will probably be Spellborn mainly because they release around about the same time and Spellborn have screwed up already with ridiculous IP blocking and splitting their playerbase up all over the place. Anothe poster said that some Warhammer players probably wont even know Darkfall has released .. and dont forget whilst Darkfall seems to have a huge fanbase base, it does'nt mean to to say everybody is fan .
QFT especially since TCoS PvP servers are FFA - also TCoS had no real ub3r loot as per say, so thier potential playerbase would be better suited to adjusting to the full loot mentality since they were originally going to play a more 'skill' driven game.
Once players discover that "sandbox" games are in fact "empty" games and "hardcore" gamers are "e-peen-stroking gankers" the small population left to fight over the gigantic world of Darkfall will make only a negligible impact on all current MMO games after the initial free trial is over. Even the Darkfall forums here on MMORPG.com will be just as busy, at least for a while, with the gloating fanbois replaced by derisive ex-players who listened to the hype rather than learning what this game is really about (and avoiding it).
I disagree with teh characterization of sandbox games. I would say that this does describe some attempts to create sandbox games, but we have yet to see a very well polished, elegantly designed sandbox game.
I don't think we will see the true potential of sandbox design until a company like Blizzard releases a truly polished, AAA sandbox title.
Take the sandbox design, adn do to that what Blizzard did to EQ, adn then will will know if it works or not. So far we've seen buggy games, games with missing features, and games with flawed features so it's really hard to judge the potential of this genre.
Obviously I don't expect this out of Aventurine. If they produce a solid game that can survive, good and well, it's another small step in the right direction. I don't expect an inexperienced team to be Blizzard right out of the gate.
You're absolutely right of course - the potential does exist for a company to make a truly excellent, truly immersive 'sandbox' title where freedom of playstyle coexists with a strong and dynamic content base. But I'm glad we agree that Aventurine's garage-band approach to MMO development is highly unlikely to yield that result.
i think DF will attract people from a lot of MMOs. in terms of pure numbers, WAR and WOW will be the hardest hit, so many people in both those games are fed up with the dumbed-down world model and meaningless PVP found in both those games.
it won't happen on release like the mass-marketed MMOs, it will grow gradually over time.
even now, almost 50% of the almost 250K DF beta applicants come from WOW.
i think DF will attract people from a lot of MMOs. in terms of pure numbers, WAR and WOW will be the hardest hit, so many people in both those games are fed up with the dumbed-down world model and meaningless PVP found in both those games.
it won't happen on release like the mass-marketed MMOs, it will grow gradually over time.
even now, almost 50% of the almost 250K DF beta applicants come from WOW.
I would find it amazingly hard to believe that a single WOW player who is used to polish and content would quit WOW for a game that has no beta test, no press reviews and is reusing most of the failed systems from a game that is 11 years old.
And do people really think this game is going to launch in 18 days?
I have tried *almost* every large scale/mainstream MMO ever. Nothing has satisifed me since UO/AC (yes, I know, another UO junkie, but bear with it) and I've finally started to realize why. I won't cover every title here, but a few:
I'll skip EQ1 and all the horror that is held, even while being addicting at the same time.
LoTRO has some GREAT PvE. It's a social game. A Theme Park.
WoW, essentially the same.
EQ2 was a great re-hash/update to EQ1. But still essentially the same game. Theme Park.
FFXI: possibly the greatest Theme Park ever built. This game is for hardcore PvE players, IMO. If there is such a thing as "hardcore PvE", I'll leave that up to you.
AoC: I think a lot of people were hopeful about this because of it's highly anticipated skill based PVP. But it failed to deliver out of the gate and so lost a ton of fans. That plus extremely high hardware reqs.
WAR: another PvP dissapoint for MANY (not all). Fact is, you're pretty much stuck to grinding instances (mass group on group with USUALLY very little communication/tactics) or stuck with raiding - mass zerg on zerg with some tactics, but rarely any satisfying 1 on 1. In fact my entire time playing WAR I could count my 1 on 1s on.. 1 hand. (about 3 months, to be exact)
This is why EVERY MMO will lose subscribers if Darkfall (or Mortal Online, for that matter) succeeds. Because there are people playing all of these games, who are just like me (And some of you). We have been missing/waiting for something. Something open, free, etc. So that's why so many of us are so hopeful, even while some are still plodding away in WoW, WAR, etc.
Again, before you start listing games that I DIDN'T mention, note my first statement. I've played almost every "large scale/mainstream" MMO. Yes, there have been many other MMO's with subscription bases that equal some of the ones I listed, but I guess I still consider even very successful games like Lineage or EVE to be kinda outta the mainstream, for whatever reasons. So please don't take offense to that.
No it won't. WAR and DF are representing the two opposite sides of PvP gaming. DF is totaly hardcore with full loot. WAR on the other hand is casual, you jump in a scenario and out without risking anything. DF is trying to get the same playerbase that did (and might still ) played UO, DAoC, EQ and Linage. WAR will get it tough from Aion and Guildwars 2. Particulary the last one will be really tough, it's verion of RvR sounds really good and the original GW have still almostdouble WARs playerbase (active, Source X-fire). DF seems to be aiming on old school gamers and maybe to get in some FPS players too. Mythic do have good reasons to worry right now, 2009 seems to be an intresting year and WAR really need it's missing content and those RvR fixes fast but I don't see DF as a big Nemesis. Also, the intrest for DF seems to be a lot bigger in EU than US and WAR do have a lot fewer players in EU anyways.
Troll: LAWL Mythicz done lowereded teh server capz so it done lookz liek dere's moar peoplez playin LAWL
Logical person: People got betrayed by the hype and their own expectations, quit in disappointment, but are now meandering back. Recruit-a-Friend 7 day trials help alot too.
Now, will those people stay? Judging by this site, probably not. But we all know how many people like WoW, which people link closely to WAR, and they're NOT on this site. It's full of sandbox lovers/MMO vets who like to Grumble An' Mutter.
No offense, if I were one of you I'd do the same
However, my point is that even if WAR does take hits with Aion or GW2, it won't be anything too bad. People will quit for the hype of launch and then will probably come back, or maybe quit MMOs altogether if that was the last straw. In the meantime WAR will continue to improve. The most annoying people are the ones who say they quit over core gameplay flaws (such as "I don't like the four Tier system!!!), decide to give the game another try a couple of months later, and then rant on these boards about "how stupid the Tier system is!!!"
Good thing is I haven't noticed those kinds of people since launch. OP, I don't think WAR will take a major hit from Darkfall. Yeah, there are some people playing it who will jump ship once it comes out, but not many. They're different types of games, Darkfall is a niche - said so by imbant, a fanboi, himself.
I was thinking about what games would be hit hardest after seeing comms in AoC about DF and who were interested in trying it out. To my surprise a lot were still going to stick with AoC. However I don't think WAR will be so lucky, my thoughts: A) WAR has positioned itself as open RvR but I left the game due to it being a linear RvR. e.g. I hit level 13 in the middle of a RvR battle and I could not participate any more. Darkfall has true open PvP
Darfkall is a sandbox game and I realise WAR isn't but it has no RP element for guilds either or options to really own your own place or land. DF is sandbox with options for guilds to really carve out their own destiny.
C) War does not have great PvE like other titles such as Vanguard, AoC, LotRo etc. So the PvE lovers will probably stick with other titles but WAR does not have this hold. D) PvP in WAR is too easy and dull IMO. PvPers will migrate to Darkfall as its a true PvP game. In short WAR does not deliver enough in one area to really keep its numbers and Darkfall is positioned to take a lot of players who wanted large open PvP. I may be wrong but as it stands I see the numbers falling on Xfire and I can see Darfall hitting WAR more than any other title.
You forget one importend thing most WAR players knew already it is themepark so pvp without any risk so if WAR is failing then they just flock to back to WoW similar game or AoC or one of those others themepark games without any risk.
A few maybe dare to take a GIANT LEAP and gonne play Darkfall but its harcore pvp full loot and no savezones and hardcore Sandbox i realy doub many WAR will play Darkfall its just to hardcore.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I still belive the biggest loser of any succesful MMORPG is Blizzard. Now percentage wise WAR may be more impacted but pure numbers wise, It will likely be WOW
I was thinking about what games would be hit hardest after seeing comms in AoC about DF and who were interested in trying it out. To my surprise a lot were still going to stick with AoC. However I don't think WAR will be so lucky, my thoughts: A) WAR has positioned itself as open RvR but I left the game due to it being a linear RvR. e.g. I hit level 13 in the middle of a RvR battle and I could not participate any more. Darkfall has true open PvP
Darfkall is a sandbox game and I realise WAR isn't but it has no RP element for guilds either or options to really own your own place or land. DF is sandbox with options for guilds to really carve out their own destiny.
C) War does not have great PvE like other titles such as Vanguard, AoC, LotRo etc. So the PvE lovers will probably stick with other titles but WAR does not have this hold. D) PvP in WAR is too easy and dull IMO. PvPers will migrate to Darkfall as its a true PvP game. In short WAR does not deliver enough in one area to really keep its numbers and Darkfall is positioned to take a lot of players who wanted large open PvP. I may be wrong but as it stands I see the numbers falling on Xfire and I can see Darfall hitting WAR more than any other title.
Nope, cause the people that Play WAR arent the same type of players that will enjoy DF.
These WAR players like not losing gear and they like the fast respawn after you die.
I think DF has to first come out and deliver on some of its promises before WAR or any other game has anything to worry about. Either way, this long development fiasco will come to an end in just a few short weeks as the big release date is fast approaching.
Assuming that Darkfall really does launch on the 22nd, I would say that Vanguard's PvP server will dry up completely, and that a few folks from other games will drift over to try it because it's new.
The real test is how many people stay after the free play period. Games might launch strong, but it's the player retention that matters more.
OLD thread lol anyway a thing for OP you cant compare apples vs oranges soo your discussion is useless ppl who play war will stay on war and on DF will play ppl from games like EvE UO L2 etc
Comments
The hundreds of thousands of people who play Warhammer Online won't even notice Darkfall got released if it even does get released.
You people are funny if you think this thing releasing is going to have any kind of affect at all on any of the big name titles...
common sense closed another thread. Thanks for reading.
"I was thinking about what games would be hit hardest after seeing comms in AoC about DF and who were interested in trying it out. To my surprise a lot were still going to stick with AoC. However I don't think WAR will be so lucky, my thoughts:
A) WAR has positioned itself as open RvR but I left the game due to it being a linear RvR. e.g. I hit level 13 in the middle of a RvR battle and I could not participate any more. Darkfall has true open PvP
C) War does not have great PvE like other titles such as Vanguard, AoC, LotRo etc. So the PvE lovers will probably stick with other titles but WAR does not have this hold.
D) PvP in WAR is too easy and dull IMO. PvPers will migrate to Darkfall as its a true PvP game.
In short WAR does not deliver enough in one area to really keep its numbers and Darkfall is positioned to take a lot of players who wanted large open PvP.
I may be wrong but as it stands I see the numbers falling on Xfire and I can see Darfall hitting WAR more than any other title. "
Isn't there a "Hate on WAR" thread here already?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Warhammer has and always will have a huge army of fans that will probably remain loyal to the IP no matter what , and to be fair it is a very solid game. ( although I personally have stopped playing)
I think the game in danger of being mostly affected by Darkfalls release will probably be Spellborn mainly because they release around about the same time and Spellborn have screwed up already with ridiculous IP blocking and splitting their playerbase up all over the place.
Anothe poster said that some Warhammer players probably wont even know Darkfall has released .. and dont forget whilst Darkfall seems to have a huge fanbase base, it does'nt mean to to say everybody is fan .
Don't worry, not everyone misunderstood your post.
To answer your question, darkfall has a much higher chance of actually developing a community which may attract people regardless of thes different style of PvP. From what is promised the game looks to be a lot deeper than Warhammer which is very shallow in its activities. I doubt the pull of darkfall will attract to many casuals, but you never know.
I think sandboxes will be the hardest hit (like EvE or UO). Followed by FFA PvP games, like Lin2 or SB (what's left of them). Then, yes, games with other kind of PvP implementation, like WAR, GW or what's left of DAoC. Finally, MMOs focused on PvE, like WoW or EQ2 (while they do have some pvp their main focus is PvE).
But all MMOs will be hit... unless they lose not even one account to DFO. How much will be the hit? We will have to wait and see what's DFO finally is... another DnL or the promised land? Or something in the middle?
FFA PvP with full loot and in a sandbox environment is a niche MMO, imho.
You can't use every skill in the game.
A small number of skills are restricted by race.
Most skills need to be purchased by getting training from an NPC.
Certain skills can be gotten under the training of an actual player.
Some skills can't be used until you reach a specific skill level of a prerequisite.
Hopefully this post clears up most misconceptions about skills.
So simple-minded you are. It's like you need every bit of reasoning explained to you.
Yep he is a prime example of a gamer who just isnt cut out for Darkfall. Not saying im better than you are you arent "leet" enough but just your attitude shows you aren't into the playstyle that the niche of Darkfall caters too.
You just dont "get it" and need a hand to hold. Which again is totally fine and whatever way you get enjoyment out of a game is good because thats what the games are here for.
But the last line in the original above quote is just so cringe worthy...it is like you are giving up before you even try.
This proves shadow's earlier post about the elitist snobbery. "If you don't get it, why should I bother trying to explain" You just aren't cut out to support the game that I think I would like to play, take your money elsewhere. Darkfall and Aventurine will run patches/updates/expansions on funding from hopes and dreams.
I don't think this game is cut out to last long, hopefully players that don't frequent forums such as this will not have the same attitude. I think it will give CS:S a run for its money in the worst community awards.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
So simple-minded you are. It's like you need every bit of reasoning explained to you.
Yep he is a prime example of a gamer who just isnt cut out for Darkfall. Not saying im better than you are you arent "leet" enough but just your attitude shows you aren't into the playstyle that the niche of Darkfall caters too.
You just dont "get it" and need a hand to hold. Which again is totally fine and whatever way you get enjoyment out of a game is good because thats what the games are here for.
But the last line in the original above quote is just so cringe worthy...it is like you are giving up before you even try.
This proves shadow's earlier post about the elitist snobbery. "If you don't get it, why should I bother trying to explain" You just aren't cut out to support the game that I think I would like to play, take your money elsewhere. Darkfall and Aventurine will run patches/updates/expansions on funding from hopes and dreams.
I don't think this game is cut out to last long, hopefully players that don't frequent forums such as this will not have the same attitude. I think it will give CS:S a run for its money in the worst community awards.
Oh i have no problem trying to explain it to him, it is just that he has been around these forums long enough and has had it explained to him....but like many...he enjoys restating his opinion over and over and does not offer any discussion or even entertain the idea that he may be wrong or that others think differently.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Of course I'm basing my judgments on the time I started looking at this game section again.
Edit - So what I meant by that is that I don't know poster's history, just going off what I read initially.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
Once players discover that "sandbox" games are in fact "empty" games and "hardcore" gamers are "e-peen-stroking gankers" the small population left to fight over the gigantic world of Darkfall will make only a negligible impact on all current MMO games after the initial free trial is over.
Even the Darkfall forums here on MMORPG.com will be just as busy, at least for a while, with the gloating fanbois replaced by derisive ex-players who listened to the hype rather than learning what this game is really about (and avoiding it).
I disagree with teh characterization of sandbox games. I would say that this does describe some attempts to create sandbox games, but we have yet to see a very well polished, elegantly designed sandbox game.
I don't think we will see the true potential of sandbox design until a company like Blizzard releases a truly polished, AAA sandbox title.
Take the sandbox design, adn do to that what Blizzard did to EQ, adn then will will know if it works or not. So far we've seen buggy games, games with missing features, and games with flawed features so it's really hard to judge the potential of this genre.
Obviously I don't expect this out of Aventurine. If they produce a solid game that can survive, good and well, it's another small step in the right direction. I don't expect an inexperienced team to be Blizzard right out of the gate.
From someone that tries to convince people that AOC is a great game in EVERY single post, I find this post interesting. Enough said.
In saying all that I wrote this thread because A) I played WAR because I am a huge fan of the lore and some retard developer spewed about how much PvP there would be 2 years prior to launch. So for everyone else stating that the crowd in WAR is different to DF are wrong. Myself and my friends bought WAR at launch thinking it would be open RvR but it didn't live up to the hype and so we quit. Most of us are playing AoC but I can safely say we will all be buying DF at launch. If it fails I will remain with AoC until Jumpgate Evolution comes out.
So yes I enjoy AoC and yes I will be jumping into DF at launch, I can enjoy more than one game you know.
QFT especially since TCoS PvP servers are FFA - also TCoS had no real ub3r loot as per say, so thier potential playerbase would be better suited to adjusting to the full loot mentality since they were originally going to play a more 'skill' driven game.
- Syn
I disagree with teh characterization of sandbox games. I would say that this does describe some attempts to create sandbox games, but we have yet to see a very well polished, elegantly designed sandbox game.
I don't think we will see the true potential of sandbox design until a company like Blizzard releases a truly polished, AAA sandbox title.
Take the sandbox design, adn do to that what Blizzard did to EQ, adn then will will know if it works or not. So far we've seen buggy games, games with missing features, and games with flawed features so it's really hard to judge the potential of this genre.
Obviously I don't expect this out of Aventurine. If they produce a solid game that can survive, good and well, it's another small step in the right direction. I don't expect an inexperienced team to be Blizzard right out of the gate.
You're absolutely right of course - the potential does exist for a company to make a truly excellent, truly immersive 'sandbox' title where freedom of playstyle coexists with a strong and dynamic content base. But I'm glad we agree that Aventurine's garage-band approach to MMO development is highly unlikely to yield that result.
Blizzard wasn't an experienced team are you trying to be funny?
EDIT: typo
www.scarybadguys.com
i think DF will attract people from a lot of MMOs. in terms of pure numbers, WAR and WOW will be the hardest hit, so many people in both those games are fed up with the dumbed-down world model and meaningless PVP found in both those games.
it won't happen on release like the mass-marketed MMOs, it will grow gradually over time.
even now, almost 50% of the almost 250K DF beta applicants come from WOW.
I would find it amazingly hard to believe that a single WOW player who is used to polish and content would quit WOW for a game that has no beta test, no press reviews and is reusing most of the failed systems from a game that is 11 years old.
And do people really think this game is going to launch in 18 days?
Well, to say this as clearly as possible:
I have tried *almost* every large scale/mainstream MMO ever. Nothing has satisifed me since UO/AC (yes, I know, another UO junkie, but bear with it) and I've finally started to realize why. I won't cover every title here, but a few:
I'll skip EQ1 and all the horror that is held, even while being addicting at the same time.
LoTRO has some GREAT PvE. It's a social game. A Theme Park.
WoW, essentially the same.
EQ2 was a great re-hash/update to EQ1. But still essentially the same game. Theme Park.
FFXI: possibly the greatest Theme Park ever built. This game is for hardcore PvE players, IMO. If there is such a thing as "hardcore PvE", I'll leave that up to you.
AoC: I think a lot of people were hopeful about this because of it's highly anticipated skill based PVP. But it failed to deliver out of the gate and so lost a ton of fans. That plus extremely high hardware reqs.
WAR: another PvP dissapoint for MANY (not all). Fact is, you're pretty much stuck to grinding instances (mass group on group with USUALLY very little communication/tactics) or stuck with raiding - mass zerg on zerg with some tactics, but rarely any satisfying 1 on 1. In fact my entire time playing WAR I could count my 1 on 1s on.. 1 hand. (about 3 months, to be exact)
This is why EVERY MMO will lose subscribers if Darkfall (or Mortal Online, for that matter) succeeds. Because there are people playing all of these games, who are just like me (And some of you). We have been missing/waiting for something. Something open, free, etc. So that's why so many of us are so hopeful, even while some are still plodding away in WoW, WAR, etc.
Again, before you start listing games that I DIDN'T mention, note my first statement. I've played almost every "large scale/mainstream" MMO. Yes, there have been many other MMO's with subscription bases that equal some of the ones I listed, but I guess I still consider even very successful games like Lineage or EVE to be kinda outta the mainstream, for whatever reasons. So please don't take offense to that.
Most likely. But Phoenix Throne had a short server queue again, since September, a few days ago. (i520.photobucket.com/albums/w325/kelansan/screenshot_000.jpg). Now here's two perspectives on that fact:
Troll: LAWL Mythicz done lowereded teh server capz so it done lookz liek dere's moar peoplez playin LAWL
Logical person: People got betrayed by the hype and their own expectations, quit in disappointment, but are now meandering back. Recruit-a-Friend 7 day trials help alot too.
Now, will those people stay? Judging by this site, probably not. But we all know how many people like WoW, which people link closely to WAR, and they're NOT on this site. It's full of sandbox lovers/MMO vets who like to Grumble An' Mutter.
No offense, if I were one of you I'd do the same
However, my point is that even if WAR does take hits with Aion or GW2, it won't be anything too bad. People will quit for the hype of launch and then will probably come back, or maybe quit MMOs altogether if that was the last straw. In the meantime WAR will continue to improve. The most annoying people are the ones who say they quit over core gameplay flaws (such as "I don't like the four Tier system!!!), decide to give the game another try a couple of months later, and then rant on these boards about "how stupid the Tier system is!!!"
Good thing is I haven't noticed those kinds of people since launch. OP, I don't think WAR will take a major hit from Darkfall. Yeah, there are some people playing it who will jump ship once it comes out, but not many. They're different types of games, Darkfall is a niche - said so by imbant, a fanboi, himself.
You forget one importend thing most WAR players knew already it is themepark so pvp without any risk so if WAR is failing then they just flock to back to WoW similar game or AoC or one of those others themepark games without any risk.
A few maybe dare to take a GIANT LEAP and gonne play Darkfall but its harcore pvp full loot and no savezones and hardcore Sandbox i realy doub many WAR will play Darkfall its just to hardcore.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I still belive the biggest loser of any succesful MMORPG is Blizzard. Now percentage wise WAR may be more impacted but pure numbers wise, It will likely be WOW
MMORPG Characters immortalized!
LLyncu: Star Wars Galaxies (Chimaera)
Xiode: Age of Conan (Mannanan)
Nope, cause the people that Play WAR arent the same type of players that will enjoy DF.
These WAR players like not losing gear and they like the fast respawn after you die.
They also like Instanced pvp.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I think DF has to first come out and deliver on some of its promises before WAR or any other game has anything to worry about. Either way, this long development fiasco will come to an end in just a few short weeks as the big release date is fast approaching.
Assuming that Darkfall really does launch on the 22nd, I would say that Vanguard's PvP server will dry up completely, and that a few folks from other games will drift over to try it because it's new.
The real test is how many people stay after the free play period. Games might launch strong, but it's the player retention that matters more.
OLD thread lol
anyway a thing for OP you cant compare apples vs oranges soo your discussion is useless
ppl who play war will stay on war and on DF will play ppl from games like EvE UO L2 etc
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