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Some good advice from an experienced "good guy" that grew up in the harsh PvP Asherons Call Darktide
Okay, I have seen threads already for the players who are scared or worried that this game will just be a major gankfest.
I am here to tell you that based on the environment that is being promised in Darkfall, this game will be a massive change from all you mmo players that haven't lived in a PvP world like Pre-Trammel Ultima Online (before 2000), the Darktide server of Asheron's Call, or the Andred or Mordred servers of Dark Age of Camelot.
I played Lineage 2 when it released, but it just wasn't the same even with it's free-for-all PvP.
My experience comes from playing Ultima Online during its early years, followed by the Darktide server of Asheron's Call. These two realms are by far the most memorable mmo experiences I have ever had. There is nothing that can compete with the thrill you get playing in a realm like Darkfall promises. Current mmo games like World of Warcraft can't even touch it, even in it's darkest corners.
Risk vs Reward. That's what it's all about. And nothing is more rewarding that getting revenge and looting that bad ass PK that has killed you seven times in the past few days and finally figuring out how to turn the table in your favor. Whether that comes from out smarting him, or simply out skilling him, nothing beats the adrenaline obtained in those moments. I have played video games all my life for over 25 years now, and the PvP risk vs reward is bar none above all other video gaming moments added together.
Current mmo games offer no risk or very little risk if there is any. If you go up against that bad ass PK (player-killer) and get killed but lose nothing of your inventory or wielded armor and weapons, then really what risk is that? No risk equals less immersion equals less fun. Period. If you disagree with me there, then really.. go back to WoW because Darkfall will not be for you.
The first lesson you must learn when growing or skilling up in an open PvP world is to forget looking uber and cool and buying all that nice stuff early in your levels. Instead, run around and fight mobs and skill up basically nekked. Sell your loot and bank your coinage when you get enough to where it will hurt if you lose it. Use a cheap dagger or weapon and focus on learning how to kill without the advantage of all that cool loot. Then, when you do get "ganked", that 'blankety-blank' you'll call him won't be able to loot anything off your corpse that will give him any pleasure from the kill. Secondly, you won't lose anything this way, so being ganked hurts less. Once you have skilled and leveled up to a respectable level, then you may risk using all that saved up coinage to buy some needed gear and supplies. But only buy what you need.
The second lesson you need to learn is to STFU when you do get ganked. One of the main pleasures that a ganker gets is the reward of pissing noobs under him off so bad when he kills them. So you sitting there spamming him and cursing him out only adds to his pleasure and will probably mean that he'll be hunting you down for another easy kill again ASAP.. or maybe he'll just wait until your dumbass goes out and buys some more cool stuff to put on so he can kill you and loot you again and go pawn your stuff. Just shut up, take it like a man, and realize that one day, if you go out and level up instead of talking shit, you might just be able to challenge him one day, or atleast make him respect you.
The third lesson is to learn to make friends instead of enemies. This means not begging higher skilled toons for money, armor, twinking, Power-leveling, etc etc. Go out there and earn it yourself. Others WILL take notice over all the lame ass noobs sitting in spawn points spamming either BS or begging non stop. This will earn you respect which will definitely come in handy later on when they notice you getting ganked. Now they might just come up and pound that guy that just killed you to a bloody pulp and perhaps even allow you to come up and take that last death dealing blow to that 95% beaten down punk!
The fourth lesson goes opposite of all I've said so far as in when you finally get big and bad enough to kill some punks yourself. Again, when this happens STFU unless you can be classy about what you spew. Win with style and respect. Trash talking earns no respect and certainly doesn't help you when you need it the most from someone who could have saved your life or helped you with that little heal that allowed you to finish that quest you've been working to hard to finish.
It's really common sense. In a harsh world like Darkfall promises, learn not to be greedy and try to look so "uber" early on. You'll only feel and look stupid when you lose it all so quickly. Don't treat others as you wouldnt want to be treated yourself. Trash talking certainly doesn't avenge that guy who just one hit you. It just makes him laugh more at you and gives him even more pleasure. And once you grow up and one hit some punk yourself, rememeber how it felt when you was in his shoes and don't even entertain the thought of adding trash talk back at him.
Have class. Whether you decide to be a "random PK" or a "good guy" who polices and protect the innocent. You can easily play either role or anywhere in between with honor and respect. Doing this will not only aid a ton in your own enjoyment of the game, but will also help the others you play with enjoy the game as well.
Just some healthy PvP advice from someone experienced in the harshest of these realms in the "good ol days".
..Let's hope that Darkfall actually provides us all with a fresh new glimpse of the amount of fun and thrilling gaming that can only be had in a free world with completely open PvP where there is actually consequences for dying. ;-)
- Zaxx
Comments
Great post! Reading this got me that much more excited to play this game.
My only gripe is...you say youve been playing video games for 25 years. Im guessing you started around age 10..that makes you 35 give or take, and you are still using the word gay completely out of context and as an insult? Come on.
playing: darkfall
waiting: earthrise
Thanks, I started gaming very early, so I am not quite 35 yet, hehe. Also, you are correct. I am raising my teenage nephews now and find myself talking their level far too often! I've changed my bad wording "gay" as in gay noobs to "lame ass" as in lame ass noobs. Much better, right? {sarcasm}
- Zaxx
Thanks, I started gaming very early, so I am not quite 35 yet, hehe. Also, you are correct. I am raising my teenage nephews now and find myself talking their level far too often! I've changed my bad wording "gay" as in gay noobs to "lame ass" as in lame ass noobs. Much better, right? {sarcasm}
- Zaxx
Haha perfect!
I wasn't attacking you, I'll call you on your shit and I encourage you to call me on mine : )
I hope my scolding dosen't cause your great thread to be hi jacked : /
playing: darkfall
waiting: earthrise
"...and looting that bad ass PK ..."
For me it has NOTHING to do with looting all that guys gear, that I could care less about. For me it is the fact that I won, I don't need to jack all a guys gear and belongings to know that I have bested him.
Having grown up on full PvP games and the like, unfortunatley that seems like the only thing that people care about.
I don't need all your sh*t to know I have schooled you...
I hope this game is for real...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Just one comment:
Not everybody likes to play the good guy role. Eve is a perfect example.
I will agree that your way of going about true pvp is cool, and sounds familiar to my traditional style, I can tell you right off the bat that if there weren't the villians, if there weren't the assholes, if there weren't the gang of pkers that track single, weak targets, then many games would be less fun, and THIS game will be less fun if everybody followed your advice.
My current playstyle in WoW, (which you bash often- showing just how much you jump on the bandwagon) is to attack anybody of the opposite faction, anywhere that allows it. Call it what you will, I switch up my playstyles and thats why I still play mmorpgs.
AC1 was my first MMORPG.
And AC1 Darktide is a very good reason as to why this game is going to be a complete failure IF it even does manage to launch half playable.
It was ALWAYS the least populated server. Always. No more than maybe 800 or so people on it on average even during the games peak years. While all the other servers were packed with 2,000.
Nobody other than the very dedicated people had the desire to actually play on Darktide because it was that harsh. Usually people just went there to screw around for a few hours in the starting areas engaged in random Quake like PvP for some quick fun and then went back to the PvE worlds for their real playing.
I played on it towards the end of my AC playing years for a few months.. and let me tell you it is NOT FUN. It's a hassle at best and you end up quitting as soon as you get killed by someone 30 levels above you and he takes all your stuff and leaves you naked.
This game will fail for the simple fact that it will not get enough players that want to pay to be ganked and hassled constantly while playing a video game.
The ironic thing is this game is literally designed to scare people away from it. Not draw people in.
The producer(s)? of this game have absolutely no business sense or they would have never designed a MMORPG like this to try and make $ off of.
It works fine as an "option" on it's own server or in FPS games like Quake where everyone is always equal but will always fail in a MMORPG.
People ask why no large studios have ever made a game like this? The answer is simple -- because they already know it won't make them any money. They have business sense and make sure to build games with wide market appeal.
This game is designed by gamers who built a game that THEY wanted to play. THAT is why this game is going to fail.
Hm..
I was looking forward to true pvp and open looting, because I never experienced it before. (open corpse looting that is). I must say that I hope you're wrong, but I most definitely cant help but heed to your advice, which seems unbiased and experienced.
Hm..
I was looking forward to true pvp and open looting, because I never experienced it before. (open corpse looting that is). I must say that I hope you're wrong, but I most definitely cant help but heed to your advice, which seems unbiased and experienced.
Oh, he is very right with respect to what he said about AC1. I was in the beta for it and played it for years after. The populations figures he mentions are about spot on. I only rolled on Darktide one time and it was because a friend of mine and I got drunk and thought it would be funny. We lasted not 5 minutes after arriving in Holtburg. We were drunk, though, so we didn't care. Those characters were deleted the next day. That's the environment DF is sure to see because you can't stop people like that from playing. You just got to live with it or move on.
And for the record (b/c ineveitably some punk will try the angle) I play COD heavily and I enjoyed RVR in DAoC. I also spent 8 years in the Army and have had a couple of experiences where my life was in danger. I'm not "scared" of some whiny punks playing a video game. That said, I honestly don't see DF having an over-population issue. There's a niche that wants this style, and if DF launches smoothly and holds all Tasos has promised it should get 50-100K subs. That is more than enough folks to make it a profitable endeavor for a small company like Adventurine in my opinion.
No, the kicker is how many of those niche players will stay around once they realize they can't always be top dog. Those players or groups of players that get top spot don't like to lose it and will do anything to keep any challengers down. In my opinion it's a matter of how much time before the "subjugated" get tired of not having a chance and quit. If anything, consider this in relation to the title of this thread: The mal-intented MMO gamer of today is more coniving, more determined, more full of cynical, sarcastic hate than in the days of UO and AC!. And there are more of them.
Time will tell. I have no ill-will toward this title. I remember, however, the days of killing deer outside Moonglow cemetery in UO and having groups of 3-5 "reds" gank me for my measily belongings. I learned to adapt, work my Magery up and perfected running away to a point I rarely got killed. But as the OP insinuates that "risk vs reward" didn't improve my sense of happiness with UO. Having to "look over your shoulder" is not a universal, factual elements that increases the fun factor of any game. It's an individual taste and should always be represented as such.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Nice post Zax
Great read, well said
This is why it will succeed and isn't dependent on huge subscription numbers. A couple healthy servers is all we need.
This is why it will succeed and isn't dependent on huge subscription numbers. A couple healthy servers is all we need.
Yep the latest reincarnation of tenspotting just does not seem to get it. This game isn't designed for huge $ and sub numbers....small target niche market and is designed for the gamers who dont have a problem with the gameplay that is usually the smallest population when you have a game with different rulesets.
you can tell the sheer hate for another game showing he isnt an actual gamer when he just makes stuff up to try and bring it down. January 22nd 2009.....it is releasing whether people like it or not...how good it is....well we will wait and see. But if it is good, trust me it will have numbers....oooh baby will it have sub numbers.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Hm..
I was looking forward to true pvp and open looting, because I never experienced it before. (open corpse looting that is). I must say that I hope you're wrong, but I most definitely cant help but heed to your advice, which seems unbiased and experienced.
Oh, he is very right with respect to what he said about AC1. I was in the beta for it and played it for years after. The populations figures he mentions are about spot on. I only rolled on Darktide one time and it was because a friend of mine and I got drunk and thought it would be funny. We lasted not 5 minutes after arriving in Holtburg. We were drunk, though, so we didn't care. Those characters were deleted the next day. That's the environment DF is sure to see because you can't stop people like that from playing. You just got to live with it or move on.
And for the record (b/c ineveitably some punk will try the angle) I play COD heavily and I enjoyed RVR in DAoC. I also spent 8 years in the Army and have had a couple of experiences where my life was in danger. I'm not "scared" of some whiny punks playing a video game. That said, I honestly don't see DF having an over-population issue. There's a niche that wants this style, and if DF launches smoothly and holds all Tasos has promised it should get 50-100K subs. That is more than enough folks to make it a profitable endeavor for a small company like Adventurine in my opinion.
No, the kicker is how many of those niche players will stay around once they realize they can't always be top dog. Those players or groups of players that get top spot don't like to lose it and will do anything to keep any challengers down. In my opinion it's a matter of how much time before the "subjugated" get tired of not having a chance and quit. If anything, consider this in relation to the title of this thread: The mal-intented MMO gamer of today is more coniving, more determined, more full of cynical, sarcastic hate than in the days of UO and AC!. And there are more of them.
Time will tell. I have no ill-will toward this title. I remember, however, the days of killing deer outside Moonglow cemetery in UO and having groups of 3-5 "reds" gank me for my measily belongings. I learned to adapt, work my Magery up and perfected running away to a point I rarely got killed. But as the OP insinuates that "risk vs reward" didn't improve my sense of happiness with UO. Having to "look over your shoulder" is not a universal, factual elements that increases the fun factor of any game. It's an individual taste and should always be represented as such.
Excellent response to the OP's post, though the OP's post was also well done. We just don't know yet how they will implement their "features" yet. We'll see shortly.
I enjoyed teh OP's post...I thought it was pretty well thought out and well written...The problem is that no one plays like that....I was there when UO was in its early stages also......It was a terrible game with a terrible community......You couldnt even walk ten feet outside the gates of Brittain without being killed..... I enver said a word or offended anyone in any way yet there were several gankers just killing noob after noob and then talking non stop smack......The problem is the average Joe cant compete with most of these guys...Many of them play alot longer than the guy that works 40-50 hours a week......
Also dont forget that UO didnt do well at all until Trammel was released.......UO's subscriptions doubled at that point......Sure it had its loyal following but overall most players didnt like being hunted 24/7.....I havent played Dakfall but if it is similar to UO pre Trammel then I dont like its chances long term.....PVP ers in general are a very vocal lot.....They make it sound like every MMO player out there wants FFA PVP...Reality is not many do........Not many people are willing to risk losing everything they have worked for.......Yes there is nothing like killing that guy that has ganked you 20 times but he will be back to gank you again.......The problem wit hFFA PVP is your highs are high but your lows are very low....Most of us jsut want an even keel emotionally....Heck life is hard enough without severe emotion swings in your gaming.
one mans failer is another mans success.
one mans hate, is another mans love.
one mans sanity is another mans insanity.
you get the picture.
even if only a few thousand people play darkfall IT WILL still be a sucess to a certain extent.
The original DT was a lot of fun.. but the poster that said it was the least popluated.. was correct. DT didn't start picking up until the gamers went to DT to play... Just a reminder.. the other players sort of grew in to DT.. and it's now the most popluated server..
"Luckily I know that while you make nonsnese baiting threads that get locked....threads I make get sticked by the mods on this forum...." -imbant (greatest board warrior EVER)
Darkfall Countdown: http://darkfallreleasedate.com/
Whilst I kind-of applaud your general sentiment, OP, was this a cut'n'paste from another game? Or do you really not know anything much about DF...?
Whilst I kind-of applaud your general sentiment, OP, was this a cut'n'paste from another game? Or do you really not know anything much about DF...?
Even in UO people were begging for money armor, power-leveling and chit. Power-leveling in UO meant someone kept you healed while you killed mobs, like lets say Trog's. They raised you if you died, healed you up then you went back to work.
I have no idea what twinking is lol.
So basically you have two thoughts here:
1) You werent good enough to play on the Darkside server
2) Its your belief that Darkfall will fail due the low popularity of PvP.
Lets focus on #2 fail or succeed depends on the goals.
50,000 monthly subscribers = fail or successful?
20,000 monthly subscribers = fail or successful?
10,000 monthly subscribers = fail or successful?
#? monthly subscribers = fail of successful?
What do you mean by fail?
There is alot of misinformation going on here.
I played Darktide and Pre-Tram UO. Both were a blast and neither one was a gankfest. There was never a day in either scenerio that I couldn't do whatever it was I intended to do that day. It was more like the occasional asshat would come and make an attempt at killing me. In UO I could usually at the very least recall away. In AC it was more important to stand and fight. Unless you were near a portal in which case you do the portal hop log out thing.
Regardless I don't think some of these "old school" players really even played these games to any great extent. More like thier first taste of beat down scared them away. Don't worry about darkfall...geeze. I've never seen such anxiety over a game before.
The game should be fun, we'll see, but it should be. But definately stop worrying about open pvp and corpse looting. IT ISN'T THE WHOLE GAME. There is going to be quests and mobs and all that other stuff everyone likes. (I don't like quests) So lets just calm down and those of us who remember playing darktide or Pre-Tram UO for more than a few minuets tell you it DOES balance out.
Kewl I'm going to jump on the assumption/opinion/broken enrgish bandwagon for a quick minute.
Most peeple love FFA PVP.......until they dye and loose some of their stough/ Then its cancell teh 16 accounts and march striaght to the furums two whine abuot balllance and damaand a PVE sevire.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Twinking is outfitting a noob character with gear that would be far beyond its level normally. This really wouldn't be a very smart thing to do in Darkfall unless you want to donate to the PK fund.
Very good post Zax... I agree with everything you said. Whining is just icing on the cake to someone who just ganked you.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
I have alot riding on this game making it, but the one thing where leaving out are the zerg guilds those are the ones that will change the game just as in ac darktide bloods ruled for the longest time and alot of us come from that mind set and remember fighting 1 vs 1 then it was 5 vs 1 then 10vs 1 haha....
I really dont know how there going to fix that no one will stay long if that starts again as for your population it was high darktide you can still login in now and see 400 to 800 now...
Its really going to take a mindset that is going to be able to handle losing possible everything you wear its not for the easy minded your not going to be able to handle it, wow has really missed up in a sense people think pvp is fun, people that come into darkfall with wow mindset are going to fall by the way side because most of them arent of the lose all your gear in a fight ...since i havent played a decent pvp game since ac this is my last hope of putting money into something that ive been waiting for awhile...
True the game isnt for everyone so if you want cute then stay in wow because your only going to be let down this game is setup for those that hate auto targetting that dislike games that require no skills to play be prepared to die alot and make alot of mistakes for those of us that can handle these types of issues in the end will be the ones at the top of the ladder hopely haha.....i might be naked and have a dagger in my hand but you know what i wouldnt trade this one shot for nothing haha!!!
This shout out to bloods carnage tr eggsbert! guilds see you guys soon hopely
I played played AC1 since late 1999 to about late 2003.
I know the game like the back of my hand and Darktide was nothing but a 100% gankfest.
That was the entire point of playing on Darktide -- to gain as many levels as you can and run around ganking everyone lower skill than you.
There is nothing that makes you quit a game faster than spending countless hours getting that new weapon or armor only to have it stolen in seconds by some jackass 50 levels higher than you just because he feels like doing it.
Supposedly DF plans to fix that by making weapons and armor very common and replaceable. But what fun is running around with weapons and armor that everybody else has?
This entire games design is Failure. It's designed as a small FPS game like Quake or BF but that doesn't work in a MMORPG.