Of course, it is your game, and you are entitled to play it any way you choose. But when I play so many great single player games, I have to wonder the incentive for the solo gamer. Serious answers will be appreciated, as I am genuinely interested.
I honestly don't think its always about choosing to play a paticular way. Yes it can be and is.. but its not an aboslute.
The only single player game I've enjoyed in years has been Fallout 3.. so again point of view varies. I play a single player game to the end.. its over for me. Yes I'll admit that I played Fallout 1.. 100's of times.. but that's very rare for me in the MMO age.
Ultima Online didn't have any group mechanic when it launched. If you didn't play.. what I mean is you couldn't for a group. So you all hunted in the same area if you wanted. It also wasn't a level game so I wasn't going to out level anyone if I did solo.
In UO "grouping" was a survival mechanic more than a game mechanic. Open PvP with full loot and all that. It was pointless to group with people that were going to get you killed.. and that theme follows into most every MMO including PvE.
Grouping IS easier.. It makes time go by if you are talking.. its social.
Groups wanting to rush from Point A to Point B mean I can't explore "over that hill". Thus I solo.
I randomly make friends.. when they are on I group.
PUGs pretty much have equated to death.. while death in and of its self no longer has much of a penalty.. I end up wasting hours with a group that is destined to fail when I could have done "something" IF I was solo.
The way MMO communities have become lately I honestly don't want to group with anyone I don't know. That's the sad truth.. when it was a niche market I grouped more.. now I hardly want to group at all.
Well honestly I don't even want to play MMO's much atm mostly due to the type of people playing.
Oh and I used to run vendoers a LOT even in UO. So when I spent the majority of my time harvesting and crafting.. its semi hard to group in a positive way and do that other than to chat.
People solo in MMORPG's because they complete misunderstand the whole MMO part and think they are entitled to not have to interact with anyone yet still be able to achieve the same things. I think basically, as companies tried harder and harder to make MMO's "casual friendly", they continuously increased the ability to solo. This allowed the single player gamers to play MMO's without actually haveing to play it like an MMO. Crazy right? Why would you want to pay $15 a month to do what you can do in a single player game for the cost of the box.
No its not crazy at all. People are playing these mmos in the same way as single player games because.......
THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!!!
These so-called mmos are nothing more than single player games that have been made available to everyone over the internet and had multiplayer functionality incorporated into them. They are the same as single player games in every way. They have a story which every player must play through. They have static npcs which dish out the same quests. They all have a means of progression in the form of levels. The players unlock more of the story by moving along this progression path etc etc etc.
Everything in these mmos is set up and staged beforehand. All the player has to do is just follow the path which the game dictates for them. In what way are any of these so-called mmos different to a single player game in multiplayer mode?
The players dont misunderstand what an mmo is. Its the developers who have failed to understand how to make one. The players are simply playing the online single player games with optional multiplayer mode that has been provided to them.
Yep, that's how it is. People solo because the games are made to be solo'd -- they are online SP games with the option to group.
In more modern mmo's exploration isn't really done, you're guided on a path towards exploration, so I will agree with you on that.
The most prevalent answer likely is that whoever is playing thinks they are the BEST player in the game. Any assistance from anyone else can only slow him or her down. This statement says volumes.
"I don't want to depend on random people to advance and get stuff done, just in case those people are slow and can't get their act together." There's your answer, people. When did MMORPG turn into MMORPJ (J=Job)? I must have been absent that day.
That pretty much sums it up for me. I don't watch T.V., I play games to relax. MMO's are my downtime. After a long day at work or school I don't want to depend on others anymore to get anything done, nor do I want to ruin/restrict someone else's fun by not holding up my end of the group. I just want to relax but still have some interaction with other people (chatting, auction...)
It's simple, we do it because it's more fun (at the time anyway) than grouping. Other times are different.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
People solo in MMORPG's because they complete misunderstand the whole MMO part and think they are entitled to not have to interact with anyone yet still be able to achieve the same things. I think basically, as companies tried harder and harder to make MMO's "casual friendly", they continuously increased the ability to solo. This allowed the single player gamers to play MMO's without actually haveing to play it like an MMO. Crazy right? Why would you want to pay $15 a month to do what you can do in a single player game for the cost of the box.
Let me ask you this. Who do you think you are?
Honest question here.
Who are you, that is important enough to be able to label what something is, and to tell people theres a right way for a mmo to be played.
Did you invent the genre? Are you some godly game developer? Are you god?
What makes grouping non-stop the way to play mmos. Real life doesn't work like that. I can build things by myself, I can get into fights by myself, I can drive by myself, I can work by myself(since multiple people questing in a area but all solo is closer to what most jobs are, rather than a group mechanic)
People like playing in a online world, forcing people to group, or being group only, is not required to be a mmo and you are not important and you opinion isn't more valid than anyone else.
People solo in MMORPG's because they complete misunderstand the whole MMO part and think they are entitled to not have to interact with anyone yet still be able to achieve the same things. I think basically, as companies tried harder and harder to make MMO's "casual friendly", they continuously increased the ability to solo. This allowed the single player gamers to play MMO's without actually haveing to play it like an MMO. Crazy right? Why would you want to pay $15 a month to do what you can do in a single player game for the cost of the box.
No its not crazy at all. People are playing these mmos in the same way as single player games because.......
THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!!!
These so-called mmos are nothing more than single player games that have been made available to everyone over the internet and had multiplayer functionality incorporated into them. They are the same as single player games in every way. They have a story which every player must play through. They have static npcs which dish out the same quests. They all have a means of progression in the form of levels. The players unlock more of the story by moving along this progression path etc etc etc.
Everything in these mmos is set up and staged beforehand. All the player has to do is just follow the path which the game dictates for them. In what way are any of these so-called mmos different to a single player game in multiplayer mode?
The players dont misunderstand what an mmo is. Its the developers who have failed to understand how to make one. The players are simply playing the online single player games with optional multiplayer mode that has been provided to them.
People solo in MMORPG's because they complete misunderstand the whole MMO part and think they are entitled to not have to interact with anyone yet still be able to achieve the same things. I think basically, as companies tried harder and harder to make MMO's "casual friendly", they continuously increased the ability to solo. This allowed the single player gamers to play MMO's without actually haveing to play it like an MMO. Crazy right? Why would you want to pay $15 a month to do what you can do in a single player game for the cost of the box.
No its not crazy at all. People are playing these mmos in the same way as single player games because.......
THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!!!
These so-called mmos are nothing more than single player games that have been made available to everyone over the internet and had multiplayer functionality incorporated into them. They are the same as single player games in every way. They have a story which every player must play through. They have static npcs which dish out the same quests. They all have a means of progression in the form of levels. The players unlock more of the story by moving along this progression path etc etc etc.
Everything in these mmos is set up and staged beforehand. All the player has to do is just follow the path which the game dictates for them. In what way are any of these so-called mmos different to a single player game in multiplayer mode?
The players dont misunderstand what an mmo is. Its the developers who have failed to understand how to make one. The players are simply playing the online single player games with optional multiplayer mode that has been provided to them.
I definitely agree with you, the developers have failed to understand how to make MMOs, in a plethora of ways. But the whining of the soloers has definitely helped the genre moved in the direction it has. And the developers have sold out what MMO's were to try and appease these players in order to get money from them.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
People solo in MMORPG's because they complete misunderstand the whole MMO part and think they are entitled to not have to interact with anyone yet still be able to achieve the same things. I think basically, as companies tried harder and harder to make MMO's "casual friendly", they continuously increased the ability to solo. This allowed the single player gamers to play MMO's without actually haveing to play it like an MMO. Crazy right? Why would you want to pay $15 a month to do what you can do in a single player game for the cost of the box.
Let me ask you this. Who do you think you are?
I WAS an MMO player... Now, with the direction of current MMO's, I'm more of a poster that plays, instead of a player that posts(who can name the referece?)
Honest question here.
Who are you, that is important enough to be able to label what something is, and to tell people theres a right way for a mmo to be played.
The name says it all. MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER online role play game, not Massive single player online role play game. Pretty clear isn't it?
Did you invent the genre? Are you some godly game developer? Are you god?
No, not yet, and not yet.
What makes grouping non-stop the way to play mmos. Real life doesn't work like that. I can build things by myself, I can get into fights by myself, I can drive by myself, I can work by myself(since multiple people questing in a area but all solo is closer to what most jobs are, rather than a group mechanic)
Whoa whoa whoa? Where did I say grouping non-stop is the way to go? I think there should be solo play and group play, but what I'm more concerned about is player interaction. Players should need to rely on each other, for crafted goods, for buffs, for foods, for entertainment. SWG did this quite well, you needed entertainers to heal wounds and give buffs, doctors to heal wounds and give buffs. You needed crafters for all of your gear. Almost everyone was needed by someone else. That is no where near the case anymore. Not only can you solo pretty much the entire game, but you can do so without ever having to talk to anyone else. That is not an MMO, that is a single player game you pay to play online.
People like playing in a online world, forcing people to group, or being group only, is not required to be a mmo and you are not important and you opinion isn't more valid than anyone else.
Read above.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Yes, this is a leading question. I finally got a next-gen console and have been in heaven so far with Mass Effect, Fable II, Lost Odyessy, The Force Unleashed, and to a much lesser extent; Quake 4. Now as you may be aware from my sig, my main MMO at the moment is Lotro. Which I have noticed panders more and more towards the solo friendly player. Now before anyone bombards me with posts about Lotro being a casual friendly game, etxc, I alreadt know this. It was one of the reasons why I choose it. However, I have noticed more and more that this 'casual' style of play has been getting morphed more and more into the solo play tag. Whether by design or not, I just had to wonder why someone would choose to play an MMO mostly solo. And please bear in mind that hear is where the question is aimed. To those people who blindly ignore any other player, unless of course a quest is required. Oh, you need a party to finish off an epic story, then I'll grab a PUG, say very little. if anything, and then bugger off when the quest is done. Now, please do not answer with posts such as: 'well sometimes I like exploring and doing things on my own' that is very well, and I do it myself, or posts like 'well sometimes I only have an hour to play,'. Or the classic; 'I like to play in a MMO by myself, and like the idea that the other people are real!' - shy people in an environment that is geared towards you throwing off any social inhibidtions and allowing you to be anyone you want! So. strictly for those who I initially mentioned. The ones always solo, unless they absoloute;y have to group. Why? Is it some competitive thing? 'Look I can get to max just by solo'. What reason can there by that makes sense? Of course, it is your game, and you are entitled to play it any way you choose. But when I play so many great single player games, I have to wonder the incentive for the solo gamer. Serious answers will be appreciated, as I am genuinely interested.
while I play with groups and go on guild events, I run and have run large guilds in a couple of games now, I mostly solo so I am avalible to help lower level/skilled players in the guild when they need it, or handle problems that pop up in guild or with other guilds. I do not want to have to tell a group I am with that, "Hey we need to stop, I have to handle something" and then me spending the next 15 mins calming someone down and working out a solution.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I tend to solo when the logistical costs of forming a group are high. Long travel times. Lack of support for groups of arbitrary size (solo is supported, full group is supported, but anything in between faces either cakewalk or impossible content). Strong requirements for "balanced" parties. Quest chains that put people out of sync. Etc.
Another issue is probability someone will be interested in grouping. If I get rejected over and over when trying to form groups, I'll give up eventually. So some games I notice the culture is anti-group, so I don't bother trying to organize groups.
I group more often when either a) someone else steps up and does the organizing for me or b) the game makes it really, really easy to group or has spontaneous grouping mechanics (toontown, wizard 101). One of the things that drives me insane is when I get a group offer, and then my partner says something like "I got to go afk, you fill out the rest of the group."
I mostly solo because I am a tough vigilante hero. I will often help people in need (Lfg'ers)Once I am no longer needed (quest complete) I move on back to soloing fighting the good fight. Every now and then I will encounter an Lfg'er that I actually like. When such a rare person is encountered, I group with that person as often as humanly possible. over time I amass a small number of such people. So to answer your question, I solo because in game, much like in life, I only want to be with people I like, unfortunately such people are few and far between. But, much like life,those few people in game make it worth spending all that time soloing around until they are on or until good fortune introduces me to a new person I like.
People solo in MMO's because they don't want their enjoyment to be dependant upon others. It's not fun standing around waiting for the rest of a group to form.
Group play is fun and a solo centric gamer will group when it is fun, however, they'll solo a lot of the time as is quicker and easier to gain enjoyment than waiting for others.
I tend to solo when the logistical costs of forming a group are high. Long travel times. Lack of support for groups of arbitrary size (solo is supported, full group is supported, but anything in between faces either cakewalk or impossible content). Strong requirements for "balanced" parties. Quest chains that put people out of sync. Etc.
I've always advocated grouping and join groups whenever possible. But I think this is a large part of why I end up soloing. I could not even begin to count the number of times I've had groups fall apart before it even got started because we could find a healer or tank or crowd control. Numerous times I've suggested we try something without the ideal group or without the maximum number of people but nobody will go for it.
Duos and trios only seem to be suited for grinding higher level mobs. Any "group" content is built for the maximum group size with the ideal class makeup. So even people who like to group get fed up and go solo.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
An MMO is NOT about a world where you group. It's about a world where you experiance it with other people(which can include grouping but doesn't exclude other content).
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Whether by design or not, I just had to wonder why someone would choose to play an MMO mostly solo.
And yet they do that. So they don't seem to have a problem with it. So if there is a problem, it's yours.
Perhaps it would be better if you just minded your own business and let people enjoy games they way that like to enjoy them and for yourself to enjoy what you enjoy.
god's sake he's genuinely interested in the reason why people solo, he already admitted it's their game and people can play how they want.
He also put a restriction on some answers. IMO, that is just playing forum games.
Sadly, you had neither the patience or the understanding to grasp my discussion matter.
First of all, you took a minute quote from my post and mis-represented my arguement. Did you even read what I wrote? Or were you so desperate to try and nullify an issue, I don't think you undersrood?
If you had taken the time to actually read my post before retorting (kind of what people do in a debate - they wait for to hear the person's arguement before making up their mind), then you would have understood that I am not bashing anyone's playing style. I for one solo for quite a lot of the time, and I was curious as to this was going to be an increasing phenomenon, (which is ironic seeing as the genre is socially based).
Of course all of this was oblivious to you, and only became apparent when Nomadian illustrated how vapid and malicious your first post was.
At which point, I figure you actually went back and read my original post, and possibly skimmed some off the other posters who had contentions with my post.
This was done I guess so that you could try and redeem some form credit for not coming across as an illiterate moron, which in your final statement you lost any fragment of cred, and revealed to all that you are one of the multitude of people in today's society that need to learn to read before trying to rubbish someone's opinion.
And for your information, I did not put any restrictions on people's answers, I merely did not want to hear the same reasons that people solo, as I do! Otherwise what would be the point? My interest was in why some people solo - ALL THE TIME! It interests me because I think there is something odd happening in what is supposedly a 'social gaming genre' and wanted to hear these people's views. I expressed that I did not want to hear things like, 'ye I someyimes solo a lot, because I have not a lot of time'. and the other examples I gave - simply because I AM one of those people. Understand now?
As for your statement of forum games? I'm sorry, I am the one who does not understand this time, am are curious to what you mean?
And to everyone else who thinks I have been too hard on this guy? Well I am sorry, but when you try and start a serious debate, only to have some nugget try and de-rail it after the first post. Puts me off.
Now, I'm off to bed.
Hey, you are the one who can't figure it out despite the fact that people do solo. What you don't see is that this isn't the first time this topic has been brought up. Usually it's from a guy who doesn't like how soloing has killed his idea of the proper way to play the game.
Soloing can be fun. And soloing in an mmorpg doesn't have to be the same as in a crpg. For example, someone might be one of those people who play the market. Buying and selling for profit. Hard to do in a crpg.
I usually solo when no guildies and friends are up or at times when I feel antisocial. I also solo the first few hours with a new character. Don't want to make any stupid misstakes because I don't know the class.
An MMO is NOT about a world where you group. It's about a world where you experiance it with other people(which can include grouping but doesn't exclude other content).
Actually, for me an MMO is about a world where you group. I derive no enjoyment from MMORPG game play solo. I don't enjoy the quests, or the grinding the mobs.
If I'm going to play solo, I would MUCH rather play a single player game.
For me, it is not possible to "waste time" LFG, because without a group, there is no game. I can't really play the game until I find a group. I certainly don't care about quest grinding when the quest doesn't change the world, or mob grinding just to raise my characters skill, or levels, or get some gear. None of that is fun. Playing in a good group, now that's fun.
I"m enjoying Fallout 3, but I would not want to play it with other people. I want to take my time, and do the quests, and other people would just be an interruption and distraction.
Maybe solo players are easily amused, and they find the same enjoyment in MMORPG quests taht I do in a gmae like Fallout 3. That's the only think I can figure.
I solo a lot but am usally duo or trio boxing my own characters.
1. Because a lot of people don't take the time to learn their character and screw things up...
2. Because its faster.
3. Because its more efficent if Im healing my own tank....i know exactly how much he can take before i need to trigger than heal.
4. and yes this may be greedy. But I get to keep all the loot/rare drops etc
I also play during non peak hours...unless the game is just crammed full of people like Eq was back in the old days, its very hard for me to find a group anyway. It wastes time I don't have.
I solo a lot but am usally duo or trio boxing my own characters. 1. Because a lot of people don't take the time to learn their character and screw things up... 2. Because its faster. 3. Because its more efficent if Im healing my own tank....i know exactly how much he can take before i need to trigger than heal. 4. and yes this may be greedy. But I get to keep all the loot/rare drops etc
I also play during non peak hours...unless the game is just crammed full of people like Eq was back in the old days, its very hard for me to find a group anyway. It wastes time I don't have.
That's really funny. You're playing a game, so you can't waste time. But playing a game is a waste of time.
I understand your points, and certainly they should make solo MMORPGs for people like you that enjoy them, but that sentence struck me as funny.
Most mmos are designed in the same way that single player games are. They tell you a story and you follow the path from beginning to end. The other people in the game are not part of the story and as a result there is no real incentive to involve yourself with them. Parts of a game may very well be easier with a group......in fact some parts of a game may require a group......but in most cases teaming up with people is merely an option that is actually secondary to the game. The stories in mmos are geared towards the individual player. Every person in the game is playing their own personal copy of the same game. I personally like to get immersed in whatever game I am playing and I find that talking to other players actually breaks that feeling of immersion. It just seems really silly to me to have to go to the effort of comparing my quest list with their quest list and then both having to decide on what we are going to do and then 10 minutes later one of us has completed the quest they needed to do......but hang on! I still need to complete the "Collect 10 crabs" quest......but they have already done that quest and they are off to do the "Bash 20 Boars" quest.....and I dont want to do that quest as I finished it yesterday.......so we part company and I have to repeat the same old crappy conversation with the next Mr or Mrs Anonymous. So I dont bother with that crap most of the time and just plough my way through the quests on my own and only bother grouping up if I really feel the need to. I think this is why many people dont bother chatting to each other when they are in a PUG. Afterall why should they? What are they gonna say which hasnt already been said before a billion times? "Hello. Doing the Crab quest? Yep me too. Lets go. Done it. What do you wanna do next? Oh I've done that. I dont wanna do it again. It was boring. I'm off to bash some boars. Cya" When mmos move away from the single player design concept and actually move more towards being actual roleplaying games where people need to talk to each other and communicate their thoughts in detail to achieve their goals then things will probably change.......but as mmos cater to the solo player then we will continue to see people playing them solo. Cant blame them for playing the game the way it has been designed.
Although you put across a sound arguement, this is exactly what I do not understand about people who play MMO's solo.
Let me explain. I am a casual player, and have found myself solo-ing more and more. The irony is that my favourite part of the game is teaming up with a bunch of like minded players and exploring the world together, and tackling any quests that get thrown in our way.
Now I don't know which company started this 'casual - solo friendly' trend, I figure it might actually have been Lotro (my current no 1 game). I then began to notice that it was not just me that was not teaming up, it seemed to be common. And when any group did form, it was like a mad race to finish the instance! Hey there is a quest giver- let's ignore the text and just accept (which I hate). I mean, what is the rush?
So like you, I solo a lot. And then I thought, 'wait a miute, I am paying money for the priveldge of this?'. Oh, but people like to solo, so that they can explore the world, and do the same bog standard quests, and kill monsters, and well, that is about it! Now - let us compare this with a game like Fable 2, I played that game for hours the other night, and did literally dozens of fun things, too many to write here, and none of which even involved combat, or repetitive play!
Seriously - after playing that game, I have realised that we are getting screwed by the MMO companies. They could easily populate their games with fun and intriguing things for us to do, rather than just the mindless crap we already do. Why not include casinos? Bar-room games? Proper story-lines? Proper in game jobs? Real estate management? Aging characters? Wandering incidents so that your explorations would never be the same? And the most easy for any dev to implement, and which would have have the most dramatic effect in game - player alignment!
These are just a few suggestions. There could be a million more, and with new innovations every month to keep a game fresh.
This genre has without doubt the most potential of any out there, but it is stagnating, has been for a while now. Whilst we are content to keep forking out our monthly cash for the same brain-dead crap, do you really think any company is going to change?
For a genre that relies on being social - it is a sad state of affairs that it is its own society that is letting it down.
Will Darkfall offer the next genetic leap? Not if the moronic kids who just want to grief everyone flood it. Which would be a great shame.
Should everything be combat-centric? Perhaps the answer lies elsewhere.
I think Neonwire said it best with his last paragraph:
'When mmos move away from the single player design concept and actually move more towards being actual roleplaying games where people need to talk to each other and communicate their thoughts in detail to achieve their goals then things will probably change.......but as mmos cater to the solo player then we will continue to see people playing them solo. Cant blame them for playing the game the way it has been designed.'
I know that Bioware are making a MMO, (actually wish it was not in the SKOTOR Universe, even though I am a fan). If any of them will bring something new to the table, then hopefully it will be these guys.
Sometimes people play MMOs as a single player game with the option of grouping, not as a multiplayer game with an option of soloing.
Why don't I involve myself with anybody but my family/best friends in real life? Because the general intelligence quotient of the communities in large games is generally below that of a rock. People say how flourishing communities are in games but an example would be WoW - I could care less about what I consider constant spam and retarded bickering of pointless topics such as the shoe size that an actor wears (true topic). It is a recurring scenario that generally leads to chat just being turned off, which negates that entire situation from happening. After that I could care less if there were millions of people in the towns that I journey to, as it has the possibility of causing more lag than the servers may already be having, so everyone else is absolutely pointless to me unless I already know them.
Plus, you can never immediately trust somebody either and sometimes it's just annoying to have to do with someone who thinks that they can destroy everything in their path despite their inherent lack of common sense and awareness of others.
But hey, that's just me. That's why I play FFA games so that if someone is being an idiot in my eyes, I just kill them and take what they have if the game allows it. Simple enough.
There are actually academic papers written about this (go to scholar.google.com and search for wow).
One of the analogy used in one of the papers is the idea that people go to a Starbuck's to READ. Reading is a solo-activity. However, some people like to have people *around* them as they engage in that activity. The fact that there are people around changes the emotional state of the person.
Personally, I solo because it is too much trouble to get a group if I don't have to. However, you still want to be around people to show off your gear, to engage in trade, and so on.
I'm just not interested in making new friends and socializing most of the time, so would prefer to be on my own. And I hate being in a group and running through new content, then missing half of the experience since the group is ripping through it at a pace that's faster than I can read the quests and have much understanding of the context. I'm not much into RPing, but I do appreciate a well-written story, and I rarely have a chance to see these elements when grouped. Plus, I feel guilty about slowing down that rapid pace just so I can read through things that others don't care about or have already been through.
Lastly, I can't count the number of times I've missed quest turn ins and plot points due to a group powering forward before I even know I'm somewhere that is relevant for me. Missed item pickups, overlooked NPCs, etc., simply because I hadn't been through it before and didn't realize it was important, or the quest/mission description is tricky and I just failed to understand it fully on the first read. Then having to do it all again so I can cover that stuff.
Those are my major beefs with grouping.
Still, if the area isn't new to me, or I'm grinding or working through a really tough bit of content, I'm certainly not averse to grouping for a while. Team dynamics can be interesting, challenging and fun just on it's on ... although often the headaches outweigh the enjoyable parts.
If I can find any way of doing something alone, I usually will. And yes, I do take some measured pride and succeeding on my own when even a group would have their work cut out for them. Call it masochism or downright stubborness ... both descriptions apply.
Comments
I honestly don't think its always about choosing to play a paticular way. Yes it can be and is.. but its not an aboslute.
The only single player game I've enjoyed in years has been Fallout 3.. so again point of view varies. I play a single player game to the end.. its over for me. Yes I'll admit that I played Fallout 1.. 100's of times.. but that's very rare for me in the MMO age.
Ultima Online didn't have any group mechanic when it launched. If you didn't play.. what I mean is you couldn't for a group. So you all hunted in the same area if you wanted. It also wasn't a level game so I wasn't going to out level anyone if I did solo.
In UO "grouping" was a survival mechanic more than a game mechanic. Open PvP with full loot and all that. It was pointless to group with people that were going to get you killed.. and that theme follows into most every MMO including PvE.
Grouping IS easier.. It makes time go by if you are talking.. its social.
Groups wanting to rush from Point A to Point B mean I can't explore "over that hill". Thus I solo.
I randomly make friends.. when they are on I group.
PUGs pretty much have equated to death.. while death in and of its self no longer has much of a penalty.. I end up wasting hours with a group that is destined to fail when I could have done "something" IF I was solo.
The way MMO communities have become lately I honestly don't want to group with anyone I don't know. That's the sad truth.. when it was a niche market I grouped more.. now I hardly want to group at all.
Well honestly I don't even want to play MMO's much atm mostly due to the type of people playing.
Oh and I used to run vendoers a LOT even in UO. So when I spent the majority of my time harvesting and crafting.. its semi hard to group in a positive way and do that other than to chat.
No its not crazy at all. People are playing these mmos in the same way as single player games because.......
THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!!!
These so-called mmos are nothing more than single player games that have been made available to everyone over the internet and had multiplayer functionality incorporated into them. They are the same as single player games in every way. They have a story which every player must play through. They have static npcs which dish out the same quests. They all have a means of progression in the form of levels. The players unlock more of the story by moving along this progression path etc etc etc.
Everything in these mmos is set up and staged beforehand. All the player has to do is just follow the path which the game dictates for them. In what way are any of these so-called mmos different to a single player game in multiplayer mode?
The players dont misunderstand what an mmo is. Its the developers who have failed to understand how to make one. The players are simply playing the online single player games with optional multiplayer mode that has been provided to them.
Yep, that's how it is. People solo because the games are made to be solo'd -- they are online SP games with the option to group.
In more modern mmo's exploration isn't really done, you're guided on a path towards exploration, so I will agree with you on that.
The most prevalent answer likely is that whoever is playing thinks they are the BEST player in the game. Any assistance from anyone else can only slow him or her down. This statement says volumes.
That pretty much sums it up for me. I don't watch T.V., I play games to relax. MMO's are my downtime. After a long day at work or school I don't want to depend on others anymore to get anything done, nor do I want to ruin/restrict someone else's fun by not holding up my end of the group. I just want to relax but still have some interaction with other people (chatting, auction...)
It's simple, we do it because it's more fun (at the time anyway) than grouping. Other times are different.
Venge Sunsoar
Why Do People Solo?
Same reason dogs lick their testicles.
Let me ask you this. Who do you think you are?
Honest question here.
Who are you, that is important enough to be able to label what something is, and to tell people theres a right way for a mmo to be played.
Did you invent the genre? Are you some godly game developer? Are you god?
What makes grouping non-stop the way to play mmos. Real life doesn't work like that. I can build things by myself, I can get into fights by myself, I can drive by myself, I can work by myself(since multiple people questing in a area but all solo is closer to what most jobs are, rather than a group mechanic)
People like playing in a online world, forcing people to group, or being group only, is not required to be a mmo and you are not important and you opinion isn't more valid than anyone else.
No its not crazy at all. People are playing these mmos in the same way as single player games because.......
THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!!!
These so-called mmos are nothing more than single player games that have been made available to everyone over the internet and had multiplayer functionality incorporated into them. They are the same as single player games in every way. They have a story which every player must play through. They have static npcs which dish out the same quests. They all have a means of progression in the form of levels. The players unlock more of the story by moving along this progression path etc etc etc.
Everything in these mmos is set up and staged beforehand. All the player has to do is just follow the path which the game dictates for them. In what way are any of these so-called mmos different to a single player game in multiplayer mode?
The players dont misunderstand what an mmo is. Its the developers who have failed to understand how to make one. The players are simply playing the online single player games with optional multiplayer mode that has been provided to them.
Refer to my above post.
Who are you to dictate what a mmorpg is?
No its not crazy at all. People are playing these mmos in the same way as single player games because.......
THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!!!
These so-called mmos are nothing more than single player games that have been made available to everyone over the internet and had multiplayer functionality incorporated into them. They are the same as single player games in every way. They have a story which every player must play through. They have static npcs which dish out the same quests. They all have a means of progression in the form of levels. The players unlock more of the story by moving along this progression path etc etc etc.
Everything in these mmos is set up and staged beforehand. All the player has to do is just follow the path which the game dictates for them. In what way are any of these so-called mmos different to a single player game in multiplayer mode?
The players dont misunderstand what an mmo is. Its the developers who have failed to understand how to make one. The players are simply playing the online single player games with optional multiplayer mode that has been provided to them.
I definitely agree with you, the developers have failed to understand how to make MMOs, in a plethora of ways. But the whining of the soloers has definitely helped the genre moved in the direction it has. And the developers have sold out what MMO's were to try and appease these players in order to get money from them.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Let me ask you this. Who do you think you are?
I WAS an MMO player... Now, with the direction of current MMO's, I'm more of a poster that plays, instead of a player that posts(who can name the referece?)
Honest question here.
Who are you, that is important enough to be able to label what something is, and to tell people theres a right way for a mmo to be played.
The name says it all. MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER online role play game, not Massive single player online role play game. Pretty clear isn't it?
Did you invent the genre? Are you some godly game developer? Are you god?
No, not yet, and not yet.
What makes grouping non-stop the way to play mmos. Real life doesn't work like that. I can build things by myself, I can get into fights by myself, I can drive by myself, I can work by myself(since multiple people questing in a area but all solo is closer to what most jobs are, rather than a group mechanic)
Whoa whoa whoa? Where did I say grouping non-stop is the way to go? I think there should be solo play and group play, but what I'm more concerned about is player interaction. Players should need to rely on each other, for crafted goods, for buffs, for foods, for entertainment. SWG did this quite well, you needed entertainers to heal wounds and give buffs, doctors to heal wounds and give buffs. You needed crafters for all of your gear. Almost everyone was needed by someone else. That is no where near the case anymore. Not only can you solo pretty much the entire game, but you can do so without ever having to talk to anyone else. That is not an MMO, that is a single player game you pay to play online.
People like playing in a online world, forcing people to group, or being group only, is not required to be a mmo and you are not important and you opinion isn't more valid than anyone else.
Read above.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
while I play with groups and go on guild events, I run and have run large guilds in a couple of games now, I mostly solo so I am avalible to help lower level/skilled players in the guild when they need it, or handle problems that pop up in guild or with other guilds. I do not want to have to tell a group I am with that, "Hey we need to stop, I have to handle something" and then me spending the next 15 mins calming someone down and working out a solution.
url=http://www.enjin.com]
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they either don't have any choice because game mechanics favor soloing, or they don't know any better.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I tend to solo when the logistical costs of forming a group are high. Long travel times. Lack of support for groups of arbitrary size (solo is supported, full group is supported, but anything in between faces either cakewalk or impossible content). Strong requirements for "balanced" parties. Quest chains that put people out of sync. Etc.
Another issue is probability someone will be interested in grouping. If I get rejected over and over when trying to form groups, I'll give up eventually. So some games I notice the culture is anti-group, so I don't bother trying to organize groups.
I group more often when either a) someone else steps up and does the organizing for me or b) the game makes it really, really easy to group or has spontaneous grouping mechanics (toontown, wizard 101). One of the things that drives me insane is when I get a group offer, and then my partner says something like "I got to go afk, you fill out the rest of the group."
I mostly solo because I am a tough vigilante hero. I will often help people in need (Lfg'ers)Once I am no longer needed (quest complete) I move on back to soloing fighting the good fight. Every now and then I will encounter an Lfg'er that I actually like. When such a rare person is encountered, I group with that person as often as humanly possible. over time I amass a small number of such people. So to answer your question, I solo because in game, much like in life, I only want to be with people I like, unfortunately such people are few and far between. But, much like life,those few people in game make it worth spending all that time soloing around until they are on or until good fortune introduces me to a new person I like.
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
People solo in MMO's because they don't want their enjoyment to be dependant upon others. It's not fun standing around waiting for the rest of a group to form.
Group play is fun and a solo centric gamer will group when it is fun, however, they'll solo a lot of the time as is quicker and easier to gain enjoyment than waiting for others.
Creator of ELTank and Nostalgia
I've always advocated grouping and join groups whenever possible. But I think this is a large part of why I end up soloing. I could not even begin to count the number of times I've had groups fall apart before it even got started because we could find a healer or tank or crowd control. Numerous times I've suggested we try something without the ideal group or without the maximum number of people but nobody will go for it.
Duos and trios only seem to be suited for grinding higher level mobs. Any "group" content is built for the maximum group size with the ideal class makeup. So even people who like to group get fed up and go solo.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
An MMO is NOT about a world where you group. It's about a world where you experiance it with other people(which can include grouping but doesn't exclude other content).
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Perhaps it would be better if you just minded your own business and let people enjoy games they way that like to enjoy them and for yourself to enjoy what you enjoy.
god's sake he's genuinely interested in the reason why people solo, he already admitted it's their game and people can play how they want.
He also put a restriction on some answers. IMO, that is just playing forum games.
Sadly, you had neither the patience or the understanding to grasp my discussion matter.
First of all, you took a minute quote from my post and mis-represented my arguement. Did you even read what I wrote? Or were you so desperate to try and nullify an issue, I don't think you undersrood?
If you had taken the time to actually read my post before retorting (kind of what people do in a debate - they wait for to hear the person's arguement before making up their mind), then you would have understood that I am not bashing anyone's playing style. I for one solo for quite a lot of the time, and I was curious as to this was going to be an increasing phenomenon, (which is ironic seeing as the genre is socially based).
Of course all of this was oblivious to you, and only became apparent when Nomadian illustrated how vapid and malicious your first post was.
At which point, I figure you actually went back and read my original post, and possibly skimmed some off the other posters who had contentions with my post.
This was done I guess so that you could try and redeem some form credit for not coming across as an illiterate moron, which in your final statement you lost any fragment of cred, and revealed to all that you are one of the multitude of people in today's society that need to learn to read before trying to rubbish someone's opinion.
And for your information, I did not put any restrictions on people's answers, I merely did not want to hear the same reasons that people solo, as I do! Otherwise what would be the point? My interest was in why some people solo - ALL THE TIME! It interests me because I think there is something odd happening in what is supposedly a 'social gaming genre' and wanted to hear these people's views. I expressed that I did not want to hear things like, 'ye I someyimes solo a lot, because I have not a lot of time'. and the other examples I gave - simply because I AM one of those people. Understand now?
As for your statement of forum games? I'm sorry, I am the one who does not understand this time, am are curious to what you mean?
And to everyone else who thinks I have been too hard on this guy? Well I am sorry, but when you try and start a serious debate, only to have some nugget try and de-rail it after the first post. Puts me off.
Now, I'm off to bed.
Hey, you are the one who can't figure it out despite the fact that people do solo. What you don't see is that this isn't the first time this topic has been brought up. Usually it's from a guy who doesn't like how soloing has killed his idea of the proper way to play the game.
Soloing can be fun. And soloing in an mmorpg doesn't have to be the same as in a crpg. For example, someone might be one of those people who play the market. Buying and selling for profit. Hard to do in a crpg.
Some people just prefer solo play.
I usually solo when no guildies and friends are up or at times when I feel antisocial. I also solo the first few hours with a new character. Don't want to make any stupid misstakes because I don't know the class.
Actually, for me an MMO is about a world where you group. I derive no enjoyment from MMORPG game play solo. I don't enjoy the quests, or the grinding the mobs.
If I'm going to play solo, I would MUCH rather play a single player game.
For me, it is not possible to "waste time" LFG, because without a group, there is no game. I can't really play the game until I find a group. I certainly don't care about quest grinding when the quest doesn't change the world, or mob grinding just to raise my characters skill, or levels, or get some gear. None of that is fun. Playing in a good group, now that's fun.
I"m enjoying Fallout 3, but I would not want to play it with other people. I want to take my time, and do the quests, and other people would just be an interruption and distraction.
Maybe solo players are easily amused, and they find the same enjoyment in MMORPG quests taht I do in a gmae like Fallout 3. That's the only think I can figure.
I solo a lot but am usally duo or trio boxing my own characters.
1. Because a lot of people don't take the time to learn their character and screw things up...
2. Because its faster.
3. Because its more efficent if Im healing my own tank....i know exactly how much he can take before i need to trigger than heal.
4. and yes this may be greedy. But I get to keep all the loot/rare drops etc
I also play during non peak hours...unless the game is just crammed full of people like Eq was back in the old days, its very hard for me to find a group anyway. It wastes time I don't have.
That's really funny. You're playing a game, so you can't waste time. But playing a game is a waste of time.
I understand your points, and certainly they should make solo MMORPGs for people like you that enjoy them, but that sentence struck me as funny.
Although you put across a sound arguement, this is exactly what I do not understand about people who play MMO's solo.
Let me explain. I am a casual player, and have found myself solo-ing more and more. The irony is that my favourite part of the game is teaming up with a bunch of like minded players and exploring the world together, and tackling any quests that get thrown in our way.
Now I don't know which company started this 'casual - solo friendly' trend, I figure it might actually have been Lotro (my current no 1 game). I then began to notice that it was not just me that was not teaming up, it seemed to be common. And when any group did form, it was like a mad race to finish the instance! Hey there is a quest giver- let's ignore the text and just accept (which I hate). I mean, what is the rush?
So like you, I solo a lot. And then I thought, 'wait a miute, I am paying money for the priveldge of this?'. Oh, but people like to solo, so that they can explore the world, and do the same bog standard quests, and kill monsters, and well, that is about it! Now - let us compare this with a game like Fable 2, I played that game for hours the other night, and did literally dozens of fun things, too many to write here, and none of which even involved combat, or repetitive play!
Seriously - after playing that game, I have realised that we are getting screwed by the MMO companies. They could easily populate their games with fun and intriguing things for us to do, rather than just the mindless crap we already do. Why not include casinos? Bar-room games? Proper story-lines? Proper in game jobs? Real estate management? Aging characters? Wandering incidents so that your explorations would never be the same? And the most easy for any dev to implement, and which would have have the most dramatic effect in game - player alignment!
These are just a few suggestions. There could be a million more, and with new innovations every month to keep a game fresh.
This genre has without doubt the most potential of any out there, but it is stagnating, has been for a while now. Whilst we are content to keep forking out our monthly cash for the same brain-dead crap, do you really think any company is going to change?
For a genre that relies on being social - it is a sad state of affairs that it is its own society that is letting it down.
Will Darkfall offer the next genetic leap? Not if the moronic kids who just want to grief everyone flood it. Which would be a great shame.
Should everything be combat-centric? Perhaps the answer lies elsewhere.
I think Neonwire said it best with his last paragraph:
'When mmos move away from the single player design concept and actually move more towards being actual roleplaying games where people need to talk to each other and communicate their thoughts in detail to achieve their goals then things will probably change.......but as mmos cater to the solo player then we will continue to see people playing them solo. Cant blame them for playing the game the way it has been designed.'
I know that Bioware are making a MMO, (actually wish it was not in the SKOTOR Universe, even though I am a fan). If any of them will bring something new to the table, then hopefully it will be these guys.
Sometimes people play MMOs as a single player game with the option of grouping, not as a multiplayer game with an option of soloing.
Why don't I involve myself with anybody but my family/best friends in real life? Because the general intelligence quotient of the communities in large games is generally below that of a rock. People say how flourishing communities are in games but an example would be WoW - I could care less about what I consider constant spam and retarded bickering of pointless topics such as the shoe size that an actor wears (true topic). It is a recurring scenario that generally leads to chat just being turned off, which negates that entire situation from happening. After that I could care less if there were millions of people in the towns that I journey to, as it has the possibility of causing more lag than the servers may already be having, so everyone else is absolutely pointless to me unless I already know them.
Plus, you can never immediately trust somebody either and sometimes it's just annoying to have to do with someone who thinks that they can destroy everything in their path despite their inherent lack of common sense and awareness of others.
But hey, that's just me. That's why I play FFA games so that if someone is being an idiot in my eyes, I just kill them and take what they have if the game allows it. Simple enough.
There are actually academic papers written about this (go to scholar.google.com and search for wow).
One of the analogy used in one of the papers is the idea that people go to a Starbuck's to READ. Reading is a solo-activity. However, some people like to have people *around* them as they engage in that activity. The fact that there are people around changes the emotional state of the person.
Personally, I solo because it is too much trouble to get a group if I don't have to. However, you still want to be around people to show off your gear, to engage in trade, and so on.
I'm just not interested in making new friends and socializing most of the time, so would prefer to be on my own. And I hate being in a group and running through new content, then missing half of the experience since the group is ripping through it at a pace that's faster than I can read the quests and have much understanding of the context. I'm not much into RPing, but I do appreciate a well-written story, and I rarely have a chance to see these elements when grouped. Plus, I feel guilty about slowing down that rapid pace just so I can read through things that others don't care about or have already been through.
Lastly, I can't count the number of times I've missed quest turn ins and plot points due to a group powering forward before I even know I'm somewhere that is relevant for me. Missed item pickups, overlooked NPCs, etc., simply because I hadn't been through it before and didn't realize it was important, or the quest/mission description is tricky and I just failed to understand it fully on the first read. Then having to do it all again so I can cover that stuff.
Those are my major beefs with grouping.
Still, if the area isn't new to me, or I'm grinding or working through a really tough bit of content, I'm certainly not averse to grouping for a while. Team dynamics can be interesting, challenging and fun just on it's on ... although often the headaches outweigh the enjoyable parts.
If I can find any way of doing something alone, I usually will. And yes, I do take some measured pride and succeeding on my own when even a group would have their work cut out for them. Call it masochism or downright stubborness ... both descriptions apply.