Oh Guild Wars. I feel all the same thing stated in his post about Guild Wars. It is a game that has no motivational drive. The classes are potentially complex but they force you to isimplify with limited abilities.
You lost me right here.
You think that Warhammer with 3 trees that you can't really mix/match are more diverse than the classes in Guild Wars classes and almost infinite possibilities? Seriously? No kidding and for true?
Just taking one class, a warrior and mixing it with a Monk you can hurt and heal. Or a Assassin same way. Or a Ranger mixed with Necro. Or an Elementalist and a Dervish or Paragon. You can even get downright goofy and go War/Ele or Monk/Necro. Then you throw in all the crazy skills from both classes and not having to worry about the mess that is Warhammer armor specs to depend on.. I really don't see how you say a GW class is more simplified than these guys. You are limited there by your imagination. That was one of the best things about GW.. you never knew what kind of class was in there before you went in. Think your necro is gonna own? Doh. The Warrior put on a different sub. You are dead.
In Warhammer, you have 3 choices for your class, that's it. And you can't do much outside of your developer made role. You are not effective if you pick half a tree in this game. Can you even pick half a tree and half another tree? Lets see.. you can be a Swordmaster with 3 trees.. balance, tanking, dps. Oh wait.. if you show up in a scenario or mass battle as a Swordmaster DPS or balance (no shield) etc,, you get laughed off the field. Now really, which classes in which game are being 'forced' here? And if you ever see an IB doing anything but tanking, youre probably looking at a level 1 IB. Talk about forced.
You make good points in your post but saying GW classes/combinations are simplier and forced more than Warhammer isn't one of them.
Guild Wars is a simplier GAME, I'll give you that. But in no way are the classes simplier. You can't get much simplier and easier than Warhammer for PvP classes. It's all made out for you in the dev notes from inception.
To me, in my opinion, (which is the whole purpose of my post) Guild Wars takes a complex syystem and super simplifies it by forcing the player to only use 8 skills out of a selection of 50. I'd much prefer my 3 talant tree route and use all 25 skills in one battle if I want to. Even if Im not specced for a particular skill I can still use it and make it effective in certain situations.
It may be cool and all to run into someone on the battle field and not know what to expect form them, but in Guild Wars it is a very bad thing the game does not have vibrant unique spells that are INSTANTLY easily noticable for different classes. I get hit with a hex. Do I konw what the hex is? Not really because there are so many hexes with wierd pink icons that all I know is, it is bad and I use that anti hex spell to remove it.
When you play games like WoW, you konw exactly what spell effect has hit you and most likely what class. In WAR it's not as easy because all of the games spells effects haven't been given a makeover. But the spells that are there that have had their makeover int he last two patches are very unique indicators as to what is happening to me or my enemies.
Bottom line is I don't like Guild Wars skill/class system setup. I don't like spending tons of time earning 50+ skills split between 2 different classes for the ultimate in variety, then being forced to only use 8 at a time. I think there are too many options at time which has led to dominant builds that EVERYONE uses. This is one thing I don't like about skill system games. People find out the dominant strat and soon everyone is running around with their cookie cutter build. It becomes worst than any class based game, and it is much harder to balance it out so people work with other builds. Look at City of Heroes PvP. Everyone runs around with super speed, stealth, web grenades, and energy melee.
As for WAR. If you tunnel vision on the mastery paths, then your options will seem very cookie cutter and limited. But if you look at MAstery tree, Tactical slots, and the moral slots all together you get a much more complex setup. the tactical slots by themselves can have a huge difference on your build.
Currently I have not met any guilds or groups of people who reject certain builds in this game. If you play a tank, you should always have a sward and board in your inventory just in case you need to tank. Unlike WoW, a 2 hander specced tank in this game can do fine with a sword and board in hand.
Guild Wars takes a complex syystem and super simplifies it by forcing the player to only use 8 skills out of a selection of 50.
Again, who exactly is forcing you to push 8 buttons? That appears to be your hand attached to the WASD controls. If you are only using 8 when they give you a crapload, why say they are forcing you to do it? I still do not get what you are talking about, maybe someone else does here.
I'd much prefer my 3 talant tree route and use all 25 skills in one battle if I want to. Even if Im not specced for a particular skill I can still use it and make it effective in certain situations.
Here you say if your not specced for a skill, you can still use it and make it effective. This sounds like you want to use it anyways even though its weak. But yet you only use 8 'effective' ones in Guild Wars. Kinda strange.
It may be cool and all to run into someone on the battle field and not know what to expect form them, but in Guild Wars it is a very bad thing the game does not have vibrant unique spells that are INSTANTLY easily noticable for different classes
That 'coolness' is what keeps the game fresh. Sounds like you are looking for Easy Mode. There is no guaranteed victory because you could be totally mismatched in battle against a certain guy, but maybe own another guy you normally wouldnt. In Warhammer, if you are a Squid Herder, you are NEVER owning a Ironbreaker. Not possible. Roll a Rune Priest? You will die against a WE. Maurader chasing your Bright Wizard? Sorry, they just nerfed your net. He catch you, you go flat. Predictible. And this is exciting combat knowing the outcome each time? And if you were in a battle, you wouldn't know what hex is hitting you, that's the excitement factor. If I see a Magus, I know EXACTLY what his range is and what he's going to do everytime. I don't have to worry. I just lock and see exactly what status I have on me, and run and I can still cast at him, even if my character is checking out the babes on the beach. I mean, he's a Magus. Its not like he gonna hit me with a punt, only IBs can do that. Boring.
Bottom line is I don't like Guild Wars skill/class system setup. I don't like spending tons of time earning 50+ skills split between 2 different classes for the ultimate in variety, then being forced to only use 8 at a time.
I think this is the problem, you just don't like the battle system and thats fine. Everyone has different tastes. But to sit there and say the combinations in GW and never knowing which character will be there, and then what they do is boring and forced... I think you would be in a BIG minority with that opinion. It's like that Whopper Virgin commercial, and in this case you'd clearly be the Big Mac from people trying GW characters and Warhammer characters. Tons of time to earn 50+ skills? Sorry, again you are mistaken. You can take two characters to 20 in less time than you can take one in Warhammer to 40. I think anyone knows that. GW is one of the easiest games to max a character around. Are you sure you were playing Guild Wars and not a asian F2P copy called War of Guild of something?
I think there are too many options at time which has led to dominant builds that EVERYONE uses. This is one thing I don't like about skill system games. People find out the dominant strat and soon everyone is running around with their cookie cutter build. It becomes worst than any class based game, and it is much harder to balance it out so people work with other builds.
Again, you are in the minority. Most PvPers would sell their first born for MORE skill based pvp and less of this linear style. Why do you think there are so many different builds in Guild Wars? Because its skill based, and someone got tired of getting a butt whoopin and thought outside the box. They gave a rogue healing ability so now you can't just nuke it down and win. That in turn makes you take out your pure nuking mage and make something else, or get your ass handed to you each time because of your cookie cut approach. Warhammer is as cookie cut as Wow, which is ok but WoW is a PvE game and Warhammer is spose to be a PvP game. With the latest expansion, Wow pvp has because even less cookie cut than Warhammer if thats even possible.
As for WAR. If you tunnel vision on the mastery paths, then your options will seem very cookie cutter and limited. But if you look at MAstery tree, Tactical slots, and the moral slots all together you get a much more complex setup. the tactical slots by themselves can have a huge difference on your build.
You will read this a year from now, and can't believe you typed this with a straight face (I assume you having been goofing this whole time). The game itself limits you as I have said. A SM is gonna be a tank. A IB is gonna be a tank. A Rune Priest is gonna be a healer. A WH is gonna dps like mad. A Engineer is gonna be crowd control, not dps. Etc, etc etc to infinity.. this combat will never change. This is as good as it gets. The only difference ever in Warhammer is how each TEAM fights, not the characters. So the battles will ALWAYS be linear with predefined roles, no matter how different you think you are because your Bright Wizard went AoE path instead of Single Focus fire path. How's that for forced play?
Currently I have not met any guilds or groups of people who reject certain builds in this game. If you play a tank, you should always have a sward and board in your inventory just in case you need to tank. Unlike WoW, a 2 hander specced tank in this game can do fine with a sword and board in hand.
Ok, dunno what boards you've been reading but not these. This has been all the talk. SMs wanting to dual hand, not tank. "But we don't have enough tanks.. dude, put on the sword/board." "No?" "Then you suck cause you won't play like your supposed (forced) to.. you're a tank." "Your not throwing enough heals at me. Please heal the tank. What? You want to save your heals for yourself and dps down? ... You really need to get in the team and play so we all can have fun, not just you." This may sound like a WoW conversation to you, but it's all you read about a typical Warhammer battle on these threads. Even if a 2hander can do 'just fine' in War, he's not getting his 30% bonus, so he won't be allowed to play this way as hes making healers use more heals. Again, this is all you hear. Class forcing.
I've not met any guilds that reject people on the build of their toon but that doesn't mean they don't exist. There are a couple of elitists guilds on atleast every server, I avoid these guilds they take out all the fun and simplfy stratedgy to a particular set of plans every single time. I've also not gotten in any groups, guilds, or warbands where they turn you away if your not built a certain way. Most are more than thankful to get a tank or a healer of any build as long as they can do their base job. Some people may epeen and work like they did in WoW but there's alot of people who don't infact most don't from what I've garnered since launch.
As for WAR vs GW customization of toons GW wins but GW is also not the same kind of game as WAR. If we had GW's system I can only imagine the unholy balancing issues that would ensue and the "your toon must be built this way" messages that everyone would have. Skill based games in my experience or even hybrid ones like DDO have alot of really really pick ass players who want you to use a specific build since a good bit of the builds are worthless.
WAR's class & mastery system is more viable and somewhat deeper then WoW... but it can't beat skill systems like GW anyone that thinks that is out of their mind.
Atleast in WAR the game is based on large scale combat so if one or two tanks want to use a 2 hander who cares there's plenty who will use a shield. You need some diverse units on the field gives you more tactical options (if your working together and not stupidly zerging ahead of the crowd).
I've not met any guilds that reject people on the build of their toon but that doesn't mean they don't exist. There are a couple of elitists guilds on atleast every server, I avoid these guilds they take out all the fun and simplfy stratedgy to a particular set of plans every single time. I've also not gotten in any groups, guilds, or warbands where they turn you away if your not built a certain way. Most are more than thankful to get a tank or a healer of any build as long as they can do their base job. Some people may epeen and work like they did in WoW but there's alot of people who don't infact most don't from what I've garnered since launch. As for WAR vs GW customization of toons GW wins but GW is also not the same kind of game as WAR. If we had GW's system I can only imagine the unholy balancing issues that would ensue and the "your toon must be built this way" messages that everyone would have. Skill based games in my experience or even hybrid ones like DDO have alot of really really pick ass players who want you to use a specific build since a good bit of the builds are worthless. WAR's class & mastery system is more viable and somewhat deeper then WoW... but it can't beat skill systems like GW anyone that thinks that is out of their mind. Atleast in WAR the game is based on large scale combat so if one or two tanks want to use a 2 hander who cares there's plenty who will use a shield. You need some diverse units on the field gives you more tactical options (if your working together and not stupidly zerging ahead of the crowd).
This discussion between the bad and the worst is a laugh really.
GW is free to play and doesn't reach to the knees in number of Wow players. That says it all and ... since when is an instanced game where you click on the ground to advance ... a PvP game.
War is worse but that's not too difficult.
How is 61 deep talent point settings, jewel crafted spec gear and spec glyphs with the possiblity of having hybrid classes (DPS, Tank and Healing in one(!) class) less than a game with .... autofacing....
You do realise that the stats change dynamically in Wow if you can attack him from the back ?
Large scale combat? The only Siege keeps with fallen walls and rubble and full scaled tank attacks, mobile flame throwers and catapults are in that other game you know.
Dang, If this game passes 1 million people, I hope it doesn't turn into another WoW: A huge population game that's boring. Then again if this game passes 1 million people. Ok nvm I hope it doesn't The point is, this was a terrible game, I hated Warhammer so much. Everytime (2X a day) I think about returning to Warhammer I realize after level 20: The scenarios and quests are as boring as hell. And the RvR is stupid, plain stupid.
If only you found the WAR forums as boring so as you would not return here as well.
Have to agree 100%. The game play is just far too simplistic for me as well: Compared to games like WoW, EQ2 and AoC there are hardly cooldowns to manage and abilities to time. It's sort of like a PvE game with a PvP guise, since the strategy is really trivial it just takes a lot of people that aren't retarded to implement it properly.
I can't say with a straight face that WAR is a bad game, since it has some good things going for it (good PvP design, decent content, good graphics), but it's simply not my cup of tea. WAR is sort of like an open guildwars.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
popinjay, have you even played Guild Wars recently? How do you not understand the 8 skill concept. The whole damn game is based around players only using 8 moves. This has nothing to do with key binding, or keyboard skill. The game forces you to dumb down and limit you abilities to only 8. It's a cheap ploy to force team work in a game where players oculd possible run solo owning everything with the vast amount of skills they earn. So they limit the use to only 8 as a quick fix limitation. At least WARs limitation is though master trees, stats, and tactic builds, and not simply limiting you skills you can use. Login to the game and make a lvl 20 arena character and you will painfully see what I'm talking about.
I'm not looking for easy mode in a game. I never do. I pvp a good bit in CoH, and in that game your absolutely have no clue what you will encounter. But the good thing about the game is that it has decent enough spell efeects for me to visually figure out what I am up against when the fighting starts. Guild Wars does not.
If I was looking for easy mode I would play a WE, or Chosen, but I decided to play the fragile characters like Rune Priest, Shaman, and Engineer. Oh and just because I'm not specced for sa skill does not mean it is worthless. It is useful just not powerful and it can help you in combat. Try it.
Now I'm done argueing about Guild Wars with you. I used the game as an example of a successful that I don't like to counter the OPs thoughts on WAR. Whether you think the game is great and that I'm wrong doesn't matter to THIS discussion.
I've not met any guilds that reject people on the build of their toon but that doesn't mean they don't exist. There are a couple of elitists guilds on atleast every server, I avoid these guilds they take out all the fun and simplfy stratedgy to a particular set of plans every single time. I've also not gotten in any groups, guilds, or warbands where they turn you away if your not built a certain way. Most are more than thankful to get a tank or a healer of any build as long as they can do their base job. Some people may epeen and work like they did in WoW but there's alot of people who don't infact most don't from what I've garnered since launch. As for WAR vs GW customization of toons GW wins but GW is also not the same kind of game as WAR. If we had GW's system I can only imagine the unholy balancing issues that would ensue and the "your toon must be built this way" messages that everyone would have. Skill based games in my experience or even hybrid ones like DDO have alot of really really pick ass players who want you to use a specific build since a good bit of the builds are worthless. WAR's class & mastery system is more viable and somewhat deeper then WoW... but it can't beat skill systems like GW anyone that thinks that is out of their mind. Atleast in WAR the game is based on large scale combat so if one or two tanks want to use a 2 hander who cares there's plenty who will use a shield. You need some diverse units on the field gives you more tactical options (if your working together and not stupidly zerging ahead of the crowd).
This discussion between the bad and the worst is a laugh really.
GW is free to play and doesn't reach to the knees in number of Wow players. That says it all and ... since when is an instanced game where you click on the ground to advance ... a PvP game.
War is worse but that's not too difficult.
How is 61 deep talent point settings, jewel crafted spec gear and spec glyphs with the possiblity of having hybrid classes (DPS, Tank and Healing in one(!) class) less than a game with .... autofacing....
You do realise that the stats change dynamically in Wow if you can attack him from the back ?
Large scale combat? The only Siege keeps with fallen walls and rubble and full scaled tank attacks, mobile flame throwers and catapults are in that other game you know.
Better catch up with the newest developments....
Yet you forget that GW is a completely different model of game. Nothing the players do affects the world even for a temporary amount of time. PVP and PVE are all completely instanced off. THey use the Instance HUB model like DDO. Its completely reasonable to have a more advanced system for a game of that nature.
WAR's gameplay is based around alot more going on then some PVE / PVP instances. They may simplfy some things like class builds etc but there's more to take into account. Personally I could careless either way I want the game to be fun and to be able to jump in rather quick nto spend 10 years trying to maximize my character before im viable in a fight. While it is a casual attitude its one that is a perfectly acceptable way to play games.
I tend to worry less about whether im unique in skills to other players but worry more on if I can play my toon better than them. You can have exact same skills as another toon but who's the better player or better group player is really what WAR's combat comes down too and thats just fine with me.
btw you know that Keep Sieges in WAR are far superior to wows. WoW's is still an insta mode has little effect on the game world. It may crumble walls and look prettier but you know what? I really don't care Its still extremely limited in the number of players and has forced reset timers. A good guild with alliances in WAR could hold a keep for days in WoW your forced to hand it over.
WoW = lame, dead to me (mafia style not dead in player population), devs can suck my non existance balls. WoW devs are full of themselves and have been since they first introduced their over rated Raiding system. Ever since they came out and said "if you don't like to raid learn too" I've sworn off the game for life. HOnestly bodypass stop frigging trolling you'll never get results.
You know, there is the saying "you never got a 2nd chance to make a first good impression". Being the nice guy I am I usually give people as well as games 2nd chances. But truth be told, usually our first judgement is as right as it ever gets. Its more hope or want to belief that makes me try out again. In WAR it was an entire waste of time. And money. When I started WAR first I was quite delighted and enjoying it, but as with many around level 20 the fun started to dwindle a lot. I played only two chars to 30-something, an elf and a human, so I could not be too burned out by the content. However, now I have tried out the Knight a bit, it was surely an ok class, but nothing of the overpower some said. Pretty normal class imo, more or less as good as any other in WAR. Which mean, underwhelming. The new class is just as simplified as every single part of the game. I really started to feel boredom already after an hour playing it, even tho I had left the game almost 2 months ago, or so. Its like when you meet your ex, the former boy/girl of your dreams, and ever so often, when time has passes, you look at him/her and wonder, how you EVER, EVER could have loved him/her!? And so it was with WAR. Kinda. Ok I never LOVED WAR, but I liked it a lot, I had fun for quite some time, but now, after two days of gaming I felt so BORED, so WORN out of this unbelievable simplified game play... I cant say how I ever enjoyed playing this game. I must really point out that I am chronic returner; often I return and try out MMOs again, and almost everytime I at least enjoy it a few weeks. Only VERY old MMOs, like SWG or CoH, when I returned I was bored after such a short time, but usually with games I had played years. Warhammer is just an incredibly dull and boring game, now with a certain emotional distance, when I am above the waves of hype and disappointment, I sincerly feel WAR is one of the most boring, dull, repetitive MMOs I have seen for a LONG time, maybe THE most boring of all AAA titles. Its not that something is totally borked, but I totally feel zero urge to explore the world, to make a 2nd life in this game or whatever you want to call it. It just bores me to death. *shrug* I really tried to enjoy it, trust me. But this MMO really is in my perspective the failure of the decade. Even plagued MMOs like Vanguard or AoC had at least some decend fun stuff. WAR just plays like rationally designed lackluster stuff from people who really didnt care at all about it. Its so terribly sterile and dull. No offense to those who enjoy it, its just how I feel about it.
Wow, I wish I didn't agree with you but sadly I do, 100%. I also am a chronic returner and I also recently returned to WAR, I had fun with it for about one night and now it's just sitting on my hard drive again.
It's just so boring, there is not much else to say, all the builds are cookie cutters, death has no penalty, the only point to pvp is to grind your charecter, it's everything I was hopeing it woulden't be.
Why they didnt take more from DAOC and implement it I have no idea.
There was a time when people had to wind a crank on their car to turn the engine over. Sound fun?
WAR is not the most dynamic game on the market, but a large part of its appeal is the fact that you can jump right in and feel like you are having an immediate impact on fights large or small.
Winning is predicated on fun in this game, since everything done is reversible. As far as class balance, some are better prepared for combat than others, and for good reason.
WoW's still the king of the hill and not showing signs of fading. That being said, who's to note that WAR isn't such a bad title, it just isn't the most popular by any stretch of the imagination.
There really needs to be a more respectful tone taken between fans of one mmo over another. Its all just a game in the end.
Because they didn't want to compete with their own game which is rather smart. Hardcore RVRers are supposd to love DAoC the most. New comers or people just looking for casual PVP are meant to like WAR the most.
I don't remember which video / interview it was but the dev's did said they did not want WAR to compete directly with DAoC which is why they did not create a sequal. Doing so would of destroyed DAoC's populations like EQ2 did to EQ1.
I'm not looking for easy mode in a game. I never do
Hmm.. Then you better look around in your basement. Cause when you went to the john, someone ran upstairs and typed this on your computer:
I don't like spending tons of time earning 50+ skills split between 2 different classes for the ultimate in variety, then being forced to only use 8 at a time. I think there are too many options at time which has led to dominant builds that EVERYONE uses. This is one thing I don't like about skill system games.
Too many options for you, you don't like 'skill' based games, rather follow a nice, simple tree. Translation: Easy Mode. This is about as plain as saying it without saying it as you can get. You don't want s k i l l. You want a laid out t r e e.
If I was looking for easy mode I would play a WE, or Chosen, but I decided to play the fragile characters like Rune Priest, Shaman, and Engineer. Oh and just because I'm not specced for sa skill does not mean it is worthless. It is useful just not powerful and it can help you in combat. Try it.
Useful is nice. But Rune Priest no one cares how its specced. Its a... say it... healer. Even not in a pure healing tree, a Rune Priest is the best healer on either side. So what's your point? You picked the Easiest Mode healer, Rune Priest. (try and say that's wrong) Thats fine though, play how you like.
Now I'm done argueing about Guild Wars with you.
Call it what you like, but I pointed out your glaring ignorance on this one. You claimed a Warhammer class character is more diverse than a Guild Wars character. Again, anyone in his right mind, whether they played Guild Wars 3 years ago or yesterday, and then Warhammer would be able to tell which characters have more diversity and require more skill to operate. You really can't clean that claim up you made, its just clueless. Now, the fact you read about some magic "8 step system".. snore. Again, if your personal skill is not good enough to overcome these guys, its obvious you need to try and make a build to defeat it, not read up and see which build beats the "8 step" guys. How do you think those gurus got all those different builds in the first place? Trial and error. There is no trial and error in Warhammer classes. Just go right down the tree, easy as pie.
If you are done talking about Guild Wars, good. Just stop spreading bad information when its clear to everyone you are wrong, your 'personal' opinion aside. Your facts are just bad and not well formed. Let me recap and make it easy for you:
Guild Wars vs Warhammer classes: GW superior class diversity and player skill needed to operate them. Warhammer classes- Follow the tree faithfully, put on the right matching gear (Initiative, Int, Ballistic) and get rewarded by the developers with a fire and forget system.
Guild Wars vs Warhammer teamplay: Warhammer-better TEAM and pre-structured play with groups over Guild Wars in huge areas, keeps, etc. GW-better with guerrila type fighting tactics in smaller areas and scenario type places.
Guild Wars vs Warhammer game: Warhammer- Much bigger with more to do overall diversity wise in the GAME. Guild Wars- fastest leveling, least amount of time to get right into the PvP action.
Popin, you get an F+ for reading comprehension, and you are getting the on the borer of stupidity in your arguement. Here let me make things easy for you by bolding the important information that you ignore.
"I don't like spending tons of time earning 50+ skills split between 2 different classes for the ultimate in variety, then being forced to only use 8 at a time. I think there are too many options at time which has led to dominant builds that EVERYONE uses. This is one thing I don't like about skill system games."
Notice in this paragraph my arguement is not that the amount of skill. It is the fact that I earn so many skills then Im forced into not using hardly any of them. There is nothing mentioned about me being overwhelmed or seeking easy gameplay. Your grade "F".
My arguement about the game having too many skills was to point out the deleima of ALL skill based game. Dominant builds. The more options for customization you add to a game the fewer those options get used and the more people will use only one set of options. Gaming companies call this the "Dominant Strategy". The dominant strat has always hindered games and devs are constantly trying to balance their games to prevent this. Your complrehension grade for this "D+".
You wrote:
"Useful is nice. But Rune Priest no one cares how its specced. Its a... say it... healer. Even not in a pure healing tree, a Rune Priest is the best healer on either side. So what's your point? You picked the Easiest Mode healer, Rune Priest. (try and say that's wrong) Thats fine though, play how you like."
Which is not that simple. Yes Runepriest are healers. But you can spec for single target direct impact heals. HoTs and long term buffs. Lastly, Area affect HoTs and instant heals. Each build has huge strength and weakenss. I am an AE priest therefore I am horrible at keeping a main tank alive. However I can heal all the casters. The fact that all DPS classes can kill me and that I pretty much cannot kill anything without having a 5 minute long battle makes my class difficult. My class MUST work in a team and support the team. If I don't, Im usless. Now a WE on the other hand can go run off solo and kill a few people. A Chosen can simply equip a 2 hander and run into the thick of battle with very little team support. A Runepriest cannot do any of that.
That statement in red above is wrong. Go to Warhammer aLlience and ask wihich classes are the best in healing power. Everyone will say Archmage and Shaman, but Runepriest do better at healing multiple targets.
YouR biggest failure out of all this is ASSUMING, that I think Guild War's skill system is not as complex as WAR's or better. It is better. I JUST DON'T LIKE IT!!! Get it through your head.
THE WHOLE PRUPOSE OF MY ORIGINAL POST WAS TO SAY THAT, JUST BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE SOMETHING DOESN'T MEAN IT IS NOT WELL DESIGNED!!!! THAT WAS THE WHOLE REASON I USED GUILD WARS AS AN EXAMPLE. GOT IT NOW? ARE YOU SURE YOU UNDERSTAND NOW? ARE YOU STILL TUNNEL VISIONED ON MY COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE GAMES SKILL SYSTEM? ARE YOU EVEN READING THIS NOW OR ARE YOU STILL RAGING ABOUT MY DISLIKE OF GUILD WARS?
I admit I dont like skill systems where you grind skills like old fashioned UO but I enjoy hybrids like DDO's class, level, skill system. You can really come up with some crazy builds..some good some bad. Some just plain laughable like tanks trying to be casters rofl.
You know i wonder if anyone has even remotely considered the Renown System does creately affect your character's build. but whatever this topic has gone way of subject now.
THE WHOLE PRUPOSE OF MY ORIGINAL POST WAS TO SAY THAT, JUST BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE SOMETHING DOESN'T MEAN IT IS NOT WELL DESIGNED!!!! THAT WAS THE WHOLE REASON I USED GUILD WARS AS AN EXAMPLE. GOT IT NOW? ARE YOU SURE YOU UNDERSTAND NOW? ARE YOU STILL TUNNEL VISIONED ON MY COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE GAMES SKILL SYSTEM? ARE YOU EVEN READING THIS NOW OR ARE YOU STILL RAGING ABOUT MY DISLIKE OF GUILD WARS?
Doh, I apologize. I touched a nerve and you are into touchy-time feelings and emotions now. I won't post with your quotes anymore of you contradicting yourself or making strange claims. Sorry.
Just because you fail to read my comments correctly doesn't mean they contradict. That's your failure and its sad that I spent the last 3 post writing out half page summaries just trying to explain one simple fact to you and yet you STILL don't get it.
Hell you don't even understand the game mechanics of Guild Wars yet you think you understand my post. Failure is on you bud. Anyone else here who played Guild Wars understands the 8 skills systems.
And I don't need you stupid sarcasm. Don't act like your apologising when your mocking someone. You're not some quirky smart ass who outwits people. You are a troll with lack of understnaidng of what people write.
I fail to see how the gameplay is unbelievably simplified , especially not the combat... When we compare the combat to say , the biggest MMO of all time WoW, a game that is often held as the standard for other games, we see that the combat in WAR is much more complicated than WoW and ever bit as fluid. In WAR you have tactics and morale abilities as well as "masteries" which is something WoW does sort of have,, which add a whole SLEW of customization and options. You could have a chosen who has the same masteries as someone else of his same class (happens ALL the time in WoW , because there are many cookie cutter classes, as with all games) but with completely different tactics and morale abilities , or maybe the same morale abilities with different tactics or vice versa. So i fail to see how the gameplay , especially combat, is "unbelievably simplified." On a different note , sorry things couldnt have gone better for you.
I just highlighted the obvious fan boy words in this man's post. With all respect for your game, but ... You may be the biggest Wow hater in the world, most acknowledge the fluid controls of the Wow's avatar are unmatched these days. Now add: Autofacing in War (terrible). Attacks in the back ignores dodge and other advantages in Wow. Non existent counter and counter counter spells in War (ask a frost mage in Wow what it is for example). Wow hybrid like classes in which you play a full tank a full healer and a full DPS, all with one character. 61 points of talent settings that add much more variety. The latest glyphs enhancments for combat/healing customisation. Not even speaking of the upcoming dual talented class. So even on the micro scale I don't see anything innovative. As for tactics and strategy... that applies to all games. You don't win anything without tactics and strategy, not even WSG.
<Mod edit> First of all, I've never even heard of the warhammer franchise until the game was released, the only way i heard about it was because i played DAOC.
No shit if you are attacked from behind you dont have a chance to dodge it , you were sneak attacked!! (simple in wow you dodge no matter where you are attacked from , no point in ever moving in combat)
Great , now we only need one class because we have a class that is 3 archetypes rolled into one , say goodbye to groups!!(you say WAR is simple..)
Give WAR 3+ years of being live and see what "enhancements" they finally put in.
Go troll somewhere elts
----------------------------- Real as Reality Television!!!
I think the game would suck, and im not goig to rashly waste my money, so I only wish they had a trial, cause u cant really judge a game by its beta...
WoW does have a good class and talent system. The game was just not well designed for PvP in mind. It shows in the mechanics of the Warlock which has been argued for years as being an overpowered class. The lack of collission detection is also one of those flaws that makes PvP in WoW not so good.
Elikal is so right. This should serve as a big warning and to be considered for any new people looking into warhammer. especially the last couple sentances. save your money wait 6 months
Comments
You lost me right here.
You think that Warhammer with 3 trees that you can't really mix/match are more diverse than the classes in Guild Wars classes and almost infinite possibilities? Seriously? No kidding and for true?
Just taking one class, a warrior and mixing it with a Monk you can hurt and heal. Or a Assassin same way. Or a Ranger mixed with Necro. Or an Elementalist and a Dervish or Paragon. You can even get downright goofy and go War/Ele or Monk/Necro. Then you throw in all the crazy skills from both classes and not having to worry about the mess that is Warhammer armor specs to depend on.. I really don't see how you say a GW class is more simplified than these guys. You are limited there by your imagination. That was one of the best things about GW.. you never knew what kind of class was in there before you went in. Think your necro is gonna own? Doh. The Warrior put on a different sub. You are dead.
In Warhammer, you have 3 choices for your class, that's it. And you can't do much outside of your developer made role. You are not effective if you pick half a tree in this game. Can you even pick half a tree and half another tree? Lets see.. you can be a Swordmaster with 3 trees.. balance, tanking, dps. Oh wait.. if you show up in a scenario or mass battle as a Swordmaster DPS or balance (no shield) etc,, you get laughed off the field. Now really, which classes in which game are being 'forced' here? And if you ever see an IB doing anything but tanking, youre probably looking at a level 1 IB. Talk about forced.
You make good points in your post but saying GW classes/combinations are simplier and forced more than Warhammer isn't one of them.
Guild Wars is a simplier GAME, I'll give you that. But in no way are the classes simplier. You can't get much simplier and easier than Warhammer for PvP classes. It's all made out for you in the dev notes from inception.
To me, in my opinion, (which is the whole purpose of my post) Guild Wars takes a complex syystem and super simplifies it by forcing the player to only use 8 skills out of a selection of 50. I'd much prefer my 3 talant tree route and use all 25 skills in one battle if I want to. Even if Im not specced for a particular skill I can still use it and make it effective in certain situations.
It may be cool and all to run into someone on the battle field and not know what to expect form them, but in Guild Wars it is a very bad thing the game does not have vibrant unique spells that are INSTANTLY easily noticable for different classes. I get hit with a hex. Do I konw what the hex is? Not really because there are so many hexes with wierd pink icons that all I know is, it is bad and I use that anti hex spell to remove it.
When you play games like WoW, you konw exactly what spell effect has hit you and most likely what class. In WAR it's not as easy because all of the games spells effects haven't been given a makeover. But the spells that are there that have had their makeover int he last two patches are very unique indicators as to what is happening to me or my enemies.
Bottom line is I don't like Guild Wars skill/class system setup. I don't like spending tons of time earning 50+ skills split between 2 different classes for the ultimate in variety, then being forced to only use 8 at a time. I think there are too many options at time which has led to dominant builds that EVERYONE uses. This is one thing I don't like about skill system games. People find out the dominant strat and soon everyone is running around with their cookie cutter build. It becomes worst than any class based game, and it is much harder to balance it out so people work with other builds. Look at City of Heroes PvP. Everyone runs around with super speed, stealth, web grenades, and energy melee.
As for WAR. If you tunnel vision on the mastery paths, then your options will seem very cookie cutter and limited. But if you look at MAstery tree, Tactical slots, and the moral slots all together you get a much more complex setup. the tactical slots by themselves can have a huge difference on your build.
Currently I have not met any guilds or groups of people who reject certain builds in this game. If you play a tank, you should always have a sward and board in your inventory just in case you need to tank. Unlike WoW, a 2 hander specced tank in this game can do fine with a sword and board in hand.
Again, who exactly is forcing you to push 8 buttons? That appears to be your hand attached to the WASD controls. If you are only using 8 when they give you a crapload, why say they are forcing you to do it? I still do not get what you are talking about, maybe someone else does here.
Here you say if your not specced for a skill, you can still use it and make it effective. This sounds like you want to use it anyways even though its weak. But yet you only use 8 'effective' ones in Guild Wars. Kinda strange.
That 'coolness' is what keeps the game fresh. Sounds like you are looking for Easy Mode. There is no guaranteed victory because you could be totally mismatched in battle against a certain guy, but maybe own another guy you normally wouldnt. In Warhammer, if you are a Squid Herder, you are NEVER owning a Ironbreaker. Not possible. Roll a Rune Priest? You will die against a WE. Maurader chasing your Bright Wizard? Sorry, they just nerfed your net. He catch you, you go flat. Predictible. And this is exciting combat knowing the outcome each time? And if you were in a battle, you wouldn't know what hex is hitting you, that's the excitement factor. If I see a Magus, I know EXACTLY what his range is and what he's going to do everytime. I don't have to worry. I just lock and see exactly what status I have on me, and run and I can still cast at him, even if my character is checking out the babes on the beach. I mean, he's a Magus. Its not like he gonna hit me with a punt, only IBs can do that. Boring.
I think this is the problem, you just don't like the battle system and thats fine. Everyone has different tastes. But to sit there and say the combinations in GW and never knowing which character will be there, and then what they do is boring and forced... I think you would be in a BIG minority with that opinion. It's like that Whopper Virgin commercial, and in this case you'd clearly be the Big Mac from people trying GW characters and Warhammer characters. Tons of time to earn 50+ skills? Sorry, again you are mistaken. You can take two characters to 20 in less time than you can take one in Warhammer to 40. I think anyone knows that. GW is one of the easiest games to max a character around. Are you sure you were playing Guild Wars and not a asian F2P copy called War of Guild of something?
Again, you are in the minority. Most PvPers would sell their first born for MORE skill based pvp and less of this linear style. Why do you think there are so many different builds in Guild Wars? Because its skill based, and someone got tired of getting a butt whoopin and thought outside the box. They gave a rogue healing ability so now you can't just nuke it down and win. That in turn makes you take out your pure nuking mage and make something else, or get your ass handed to you each time because of your cookie cut approach. Warhammer is as cookie cut as Wow, which is ok but WoW is a PvE game and Warhammer is spose to be a PvP game. With the latest expansion, Wow pvp has because even less cookie cut than Warhammer if thats even possible.
You will read this a year from now, and can't believe you typed this with a straight face (I assume you having been goofing this whole time). The game itself limits you as I have said. A SM is gonna be a tank. A IB is gonna be a tank. A Rune Priest is gonna be a healer. A WH is gonna dps like mad. A Engineer is gonna be crowd control, not dps. Etc, etc etc to infinity.. this combat will never change. This is as good as it gets. The only difference ever in Warhammer is how each TEAM fights, not the characters. So the battles will ALWAYS be linear with predefined roles, no matter how different you think you are because your Bright Wizard went AoE path instead of Single Focus fire path. How's that for forced play?
Ok, dunno what boards you've been reading but not these. This has been all the talk. SMs wanting to dual hand, not tank. "But we don't have enough tanks.. dude, put on the sword/board." "No?" "Then you suck cause you won't play like your supposed (forced) to.. you're a tank." "Your not throwing enough heals at me. Please heal the tank. What? You want to save your heals for yourself and dps down? ... You really need to get in the team and play so we all can have fun, not just you." This may sound like a WoW conversation to you, but it's all you read about a typical Warhammer battle on these threads. Even if a 2hander can do 'just fine' in War, he's not getting his 30% bonus, so he won't be allowed to play this way as hes making healers use more heals. Again, this is all you hear. Class forcing.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I've not met any guilds that reject people on the build of their toon but that doesn't mean they don't exist. There are a couple of elitists guilds on atleast every server, I avoid these guilds they take out all the fun and simplfy stratedgy to a particular set of plans every single time. I've also not gotten in any groups, guilds, or warbands where they turn you away if your not built a certain way. Most are more than thankful to get a tank or a healer of any build as long as they can do their base job. Some people may epeen and work like they did in WoW but there's alot of people who don't infact most don't from what I've garnered since launch.
As for WAR vs GW customization of toons GW wins but GW is also not the same kind of game as WAR. If we had GW's system I can only imagine the unholy balancing issues that would ensue and the "your toon must be built this way" messages that everyone would have. Skill based games in my experience or even hybrid ones like DDO have alot of really really pick ass players who want you to use a specific build since a good bit of the builds are worthless.
WAR's class & mastery system is more viable and somewhat deeper then WoW... but it can't beat skill systems like GW anyone that thinks that is out of their mind.
Atleast in WAR the game is based on large scale combat so if one or two tanks want to use a 2 hander who cares there's plenty who will use a shield. You need some diverse units on the field gives you more tactical options (if your working together and not stupidly zerging ahead of the crowd).
This discussion between the bad and the worst is a laugh really.
GW is free to play and doesn't reach to the knees in number of Wow players. That says it all and ... since when is an instanced game where you click on the ground to advance ... a PvP game.
War is worse but that's not too difficult.
How is 61 deep talent point settings, jewel crafted spec gear and spec glyphs with the possiblity of having hybrid classes (DPS, Tank and Healing in one(!) class) less than a game with .... autofacing....
You do realise that the stats change dynamically in Wow if you can attack him from the back ?
Large scale combat? The only Siege keeps with fallen walls and rubble and full scaled tank attacks, mobile flame throwers and catapults are in that other game you know.
Better catch up with the newest developments....
If only you found the WAR forums as boring so as you would not return here as well.
lmao
Have to agree 100%. The game play is just far too simplistic for me as well: Compared to games like WoW, EQ2 and AoC there are hardly cooldowns to manage and abilities to time. It's sort of like a PvE game with a PvP guise, since the strategy is really trivial it just takes a lot of people that aren't retarded to implement it properly.
I can't say with a straight face that WAR is a bad game, since it has some good things going for it (good PvP design, decent content, good graphics), but it's simply not my cup of tea. WAR is sort of like an open guildwars.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
popinjay, have you even played Guild Wars recently? How do you not understand the 8 skill concept. The whole damn game is based around players only using 8 moves. This has nothing to do with key binding, or keyboard skill. The game forces you to dumb down and limit you abilities to only 8. It's a cheap ploy to force team work in a game where players oculd possible run solo owning everything with the vast amount of skills they earn. So they limit the use to only 8 as a quick fix limitation. At least WARs limitation is though master trees, stats, and tactic builds, and not simply limiting you skills you can use. Login to the game and make a lvl 20 arena character and you will painfully see what I'm talking about.
I'm not looking for easy mode in a game. I never do. I pvp a good bit in CoH, and in that game your absolutely have no clue what you will encounter. But the good thing about the game is that it has decent enough spell efeects for me to visually figure out what I am up against when the fighting starts. Guild Wars does not.
If I was looking for easy mode I would play a WE, or Chosen, but I decided to play the fragile characters like Rune Priest, Shaman, and Engineer. Oh and just because I'm not specced for sa skill does not mean it is worthless. It is useful just not powerful and it can help you in combat. Try it.
Now I'm done argueing about Guild Wars with you. I used the game as an example of a successful that I don't like to counter the OPs thoughts on WAR. Whether you think the game is great and that I'm wrong doesn't matter to THIS discussion.
This discussion between the bad and the worst is a laugh really.
GW is free to play and doesn't reach to the knees in number of Wow players. That says it all and ... since when is an instanced game where you click on the ground to advance ... a PvP game.
War is worse but that's not too difficult.
How is 61 deep talent point settings, jewel crafted spec gear and spec glyphs with the possiblity of having hybrid classes (DPS, Tank and Healing in one(!) class) less than a game with .... autofacing....
You do realise that the stats change dynamically in Wow if you can attack him from the back ?
Large scale combat? The only Siege keeps with fallen walls and rubble and full scaled tank attacks, mobile flame throwers and catapults are in that other game you know.
Better catch up with the newest developments....
Yet you forget that GW is a completely different model of game. Nothing the players do affects the world even for a temporary amount of time. PVP and PVE are all completely instanced off. THey use the Instance HUB model like DDO. Its completely reasonable to have a more advanced system for a game of that nature.
WAR's gameplay is based around alot more going on then some PVE / PVP instances. They may simplfy some things like class builds etc but there's more to take into account. Personally I could careless either way I want the game to be fun and to be able to jump in rather quick nto spend 10 years trying to maximize my character before im viable in a fight. While it is a casual attitude its one that is a perfectly acceptable way to play games.
I tend to worry less about whether im unique in skills to other players but worry more on if I can play my toon better than them. You can have exact same skills as another toon but who's the better player or better group player is really what WAR's combat comes down too and thats just fine with me.
btw you know that Keep Sieges in WAR are far superior to wows. WoW's is still an insta mode has little effect on the game world. It may crumble walls and look prettier but you know what? I really don't care
Its still extremely limited in the number of players and has forced reset timers. A good guild with alliances in WAR could hold a keep for days in WoW your forced to hand it over.
WoW = lame, dead to me (mafia style not dead in player population), devs can suck my non existance balls. WoW devs are full of themselves and have been since they first introduced their over rated Raiding system. Ever since they came out and said "if you don't like to raid learn too" I've sworn off the game for life. HOnestly bodypass stop frigging trolling you'll never get results.
WoW sucks even with its 13+ million subscribers.
Wow, I wish I didn't agree with you but sadly I do, 100%. I also am a chronic returner and I also recently returned to WAR, I had fun with it for about one night and now it's just sitting on my hard drive again.
It's just so boring, there is not much else to say, all the builds are cookie cutters, death has no penalty, the only point to pvp is to grind your charecter, it's everything I was hopeing it woulden't be.
Why they didnt take more from DAOC and implement it I have no idea.
There is a market for simplicity in products.
There was a time when people had to wind a crank on their car to turn the engine over. Sound fun?
WAR is not the most dynamic game on the market, but a large part of its appeal is the fact that you can jump right in and feel like you are having an immediate impact on fights large or small.
Winning is predicated on fun in this game, since everything done is reversible. As far as class balance, some are better prepared for combat than others, and for good reason.
WoW's still the king of the hill and not showing signs of fading. That being said, who's to note that WAR isn't such a bad title, it just isn't the most popular by any stretch of the imagination.
There really needs to be a more respectful tone taken between fans of one mmo over another. Its all just a game in the end.
Because they didn't want to compete with their own game which is rather smart. Hardcore RVRers are supposd to love DAoC the most. New comers or people just looking for casual PVP are meant to like WAR the most.
I don't remember which video / interview it was but the dev's did said they did not want WAR to compete directly with DAoC which is why they did not create a sequal. Doing so would of destroyed DAoC's populations like EQ2 did to EQ1.
Hmm.. Then you better look around in your basement. Cause when you went to the john, someone ran upstairs and typed this on your computer:
Too many options for you, you don't like 'skill' based games, rather follow a nice, simple tree. Translation: Easy Mode. This is about as plain as saying it without saying it as you can get. You don't want s k i l l. You want a laid out t r e e. Useful is nice. But Rune Priest no one cares how its specced. Its a... say it... healer. Even not in a pure healing tree, a Rune Priest is the best healer on either side. So what's your point? You picked the Easiest Mode healer, Rune Priest. (try and say that's wrong) Thats fine though, play how you like. Call it what you like, but I pointed out your glaring ignorance on this one. You claimed a Warhammer class character is more diverse than a Guild Wars character. Again, anyone in his right mind, whether they played Guild Wars 3 years ago or yesterday, and then Warhammer would be able to tell which characters have more diversity and require more skill to operate. You really can't clean that claim up you made, its just clueless. Now, the fact you read about some magic "8 step system".. snore. Again, if your personal skill is not good enough to overcome these guys, its obvious you need to try and make a build to defeat it, not read up and see which build beats the "8 step" guys. How do you think those gurus got all those different builds in the first place? Trial and error. There is no trial and error in Warhammer classes. Just go right down the tree, easy as pie.If you are done talking about Guild Wars, good. Just stop spreading bad information when its clear to everyone you are wrong, your 'personal' opinion aside. Your facts are just bad and not well formed. Let me recap and make it easy for you:
Guild Wars vs Warhammer classes: GW superior class diversity and player skill needed to operate them. Warhammer classes- Follow the tree faithfully, put on the right matching gear (Initiative, Int, Ballistic) and get rewarded by the developers with a fire and forget system.
Guild Wars vs Warhammer teamplay: Warhammer-better TEAM and pre-structured play with groups over Guild Wars in huge areas, keeps, etc. GW-better with guerrila type fighting tactics in smaller areas and scenario type places.
Guild Wars vs Warhammer game: Warhammer- Much bigger with more to do overall diversity wise in the GAME. Guild Wars- fastest leveling, least amount of time to get right into the PvP action.
You can go now, Urrelles.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Popin, you get an F+ for reading comprehension, and you are getting the on the borer of stupidity in your arguement. Here let me make things easy for you by bolding the important information that you ignore.
"I don't like spending tons of time earning 50+ skills split between 2 different classes for the ultimate in variety, then being forced to only use 8 at a time. I think there are too many options at time which has led to dominant builds that EVERYONE uses. This is one thing I don't like about skill system games."
Notice in this paragraph my arguement is not that the amount of skill. It is the fact that I earn so many skills then Im forced into not using hardly any of them. There is nothing mentioned about me being overwhelmed or seeking easy gameplay. Your grade "F".
My arguement about the game having too many skills was to point out the deleima of ALL skill based game. Dominant builds. The more options for customization you add to a game the fewer those options get used and the more people will use only one set of options. Gaming companies call this the "Dominant Strategy". The dominant strat has always hindered games and devs are constantly trying to balance their games to prevent this. Your complrehension grade for this "D+".
You wrote:
"Useful is nice. But Rune Priest no one cares how its specced. Its a... say it... healer. Even not in a pure healing tree, a Rune Priest is the best healer on either side. So what's your point? You picked the Easiest Mode healer, Rune Priest. (try and say that's wrong) Thats fine though, play how you like."
Which is not that simple. Yes Runepriest are healers. But you can spec for single target direct impact heals. HoTs and long term buffs. Lastly, Area affect HoTs and instant heals. Each build has huge strength and weakenss. I am an AE priest therefore I am horrible at keeping a main tank alive. However I can heal all the casters. The fact that all DPS classes can kill me and that I pretty much cannot kill anything without having a 5 minute long battle makes my class difficult. My class MUST work in a team and support the team. If I don't, Im usless. Now a WE on the other hand can go run off solo and kill a few people. A Chosen can simply equip a 2 hander and run into the thick of battle with very little team support. A Runepriest cannot do any of that.
That statement in red above is wrong. Go to Warhammer aLlience and ask wihich classes are the best in healing power. Everyone will say Archmage and Shaman, but Runepriest do better at healing multiple targets.
YouR biggest failure out of all this is ASSUMING, that I think Guild War's skill system is not as complex as WAR's or better. It is better. I JUST DON'T LIKE IT!!! Get it through your head.
THE WHOLE PRUPOSE OF MY ORIGINAL POST WAS TO SAY THAT, JUST BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE SOMETHING DOESN'T MEAN IT IS NOT WELL DESIGNED!!!! THAT WAS THE WHOLE REASON I USED GUILD WARS AS AN EXAMPLE. GOT IT NOW? ARE YOU SURE YOU UNDERSTAND NOW? ARE YOU STILL TUNNEL VISIONED ON MY COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE GAMES SKILL SYSTEM? ARE YOU EVEN READING THIS NOW OR ARE YOU STILL RAGING ABOUT MY DISLIKE OF GUILD WARS?
Hehe nice summary there Popinjay lol
I admit I dont like skill systems where you grind skills like old fashioned UO but I enjoy hybrids like DDO's class, level, skill system. You can really come up with some crazy builds..some good some bad. Some just plain laughable like tanks trying to be casters rofl.
You know i wonder if anyone has even remotely considered the Renown System does creately affect your character's build. but whatever this topic has gone way of subject now.
Doh, I apologize. I touched a nerve and you are into touchy-time feelings and emotions now. I won't post with your quotes anymore of you contradicting yourself or making strange claims. Sorry.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Just because you fail to read my comments correctly doesn't mean they contradict. That's your failure and its sad that I spent the last 3 post writing out half page summaries just trying to explain one simple fact to you and yet you STILL don't get it.
Hell you don't even understand the game mechanics of Guild Wars yet you think you understand my post. Failure is on you bud. Anyone else here who played Guild Wars understands the 8 skills systems.
And I don't need you stupid sarcasm. Don't act like your apologising when your mocking someone. You're not some quirky smart ass who outwits people. You are a troll with lack of understnaidng of what people write.
First of all, I've never even heard of the warhammer franchise until the game was released, the only way i heard about it was because i played DAOC.
No shit if you are attacked from behind you dont have a chance to dodge it , you were sneak attacked!! (simple in wow you dodge no matter where you are attacked from , no point in ever moving in combat)
Great , now we only need one class because we have a class that is 3 archetypes rolled into one , say goodbye to groups!!(you say WAR is simple..)
Give WAR 3+ years of being live and see what "enhancements" they finally put in.
Go troll somewhere elts
-----------------------------
Real as Reality Television!!!
I think the game would suck, and im not goig to rashly waste my money, so I only wish they had a trial, cause u cant really judge a game by its beta...
WoW does have a good class and talent system. The game was just not well designed for PvP in mind. It shows in the mechanics of the Warlock which has been argued for years as being an overpowered class. The lack of collission detection is also one of those flaws that makes PvP in WoW not so good.
Elikal is so right. This should serve as a big warning and to be considered for any new people looking into warhammer. especially the last couple sentances. save your money wait 6 months