Well my friend, it all boils down to one very specific point... SOE has money, and LOTS of it. It just amazes me that with all this money to throw at the best devs, artists, programmers, engineers, etc, they still cant seem to win,,,, just like Steinbrenner and the Yankees, lol. **snip**
Developers should NEVER make sequels to an MMO. All that would need to be changed is an engine rebuild with updated graphics and additional content. I mean look at Everquest, that game has endless content and could have just had the money that EQ2 took to develop spent on updated graphics and a large expansion.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
I Agree with InTheSea. Sony makes a very good product normally. SOE just happens to be a horrible problem that they just seem to not pay any attention to. Its almost like owning a little yippie dog that pees on your carpet all the time but you cant bring yourself to get rid of it. I really hope thats how Sony sees the issue.
Same thing with Vanguard.. Although, they are to blame for the failure of the game, due to pressing Sigil to release it early
Without SOE, it's probably fair to say there would be no Vanguard at all. They saved that game from the rubbish bin. Sigil had several years of development time and money from Microsoft, and they blew it way before SOE entered the picture.
Any failures with VG at launch are firmly on Sigil's head. They're the ones that had years to get their game together, and to program it properly.
How does a company like SoE keep getting more MMO's to publish?
Simple, wither you want to admit it or not, they know their business, know their audiences, and know how to make games. Better than the players do, who are simply just wrong about 99.9% of the time.
SOE has done fine job in this regard. And has one of the strongest distribution system in the genre.
Oh god, you are such a SoE shill.
You either work for SoE, have family working there, have stocks in them or play some game from SoE you don't want to see die.
I KNOW it's one of the four. You are SO obvious.
Every time I see your avatar I have to puke in disgust when I see how biased your opinions are.
Truth Hurts, and thanks for perpetuating exactly what I was saying. My post also had nothing to do with opinions, its fact. Hence, SOE continues, and will continue to publish, create and operate games.
Originally posted by InTheSea
Originally posted by bobbler
well i did just buy a pair of $80 headphones from sony and im sure they sell many other products that people purchase.
I have a walkman and headset from Sony. There's nothing wrong with the quality of Sony products really.
It's just SoE which is a complete joke of a company. From their developers to their customer service, they are THE WORST mmo company by far.
Guess what, your wrong. They have one of the best distribution systems in the genre, and the technical knowledge is second to none as far as hosting and support of very different products.
Your personal opinion is irrelevant when answering the OPs question, as is most of the responses in this thread.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
well i did just buy a pair of $80 headphones from sony and im sure they sell many other products that people purchase.
Please to be understanding the difference between Sony, and SOE. Thanks.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I have no personal stake in the SOE debate, so take my opinion for what it's worth...
But, you have to look at major MMO publishers the same way you'd view major record labels or network television or pretty much any "suits" for that matter: they're only in it for the money. Bottom line. They don't care about art or true entertainment or creativity or any of that. They're just after that next dollar. Usually, that means catering to the mainstream and the crowds of screaming 13 year old girls that will, with 100% predictability, buy every single album from every single shitty, hacked, manufactured band that you can churn out. Want proof? Just flip over to MTV or VH1 or FM radio and check out the kind of absolute crap that, some how, rakes in the dollars. It's completely baffling. The only justice you get is in watching those same crappy music groups get booed off the stage during half time of a major college football bowl. To be honest though, that is pretty satisfying...
When you get down to it, the MMO crowd of today is no different. Every smaller title MMO gets slammed for having dated graphics or less polish or not enough "content". So, why do we act surprised when the AAA MMOs go out of their way to deliver a shiny, polished, soul less, shallow game? That's what the market demanded right?
How does a company like SoE keep getting more MMO's to publish?
Simple, wither you want to admit it or not, they know their business, know their audiences, and know how to make games. Better than the players do, who are simply just wrong about 99.9% of the time.
SOE has done fine job in this regard. And has one of the strongest distribution system in the genre.
Oh god, you are such a SoE shill.
You either work for SoE, have family working there, have stocks in them or play some game from SoE you don't want to see die.
I KNOW it's one of the four. You are SO obvious.
Every time I see your avatar I have to puke in disgust when I see how biased your opinions are.
More likely looking for some free SC (publishers now don't even hide paying off players to advertize the game).
How does a company like SoE keep getting more MMO's to publish?
Simple, wither you want to admit it or not, they know their business, know their audiences, and know how to make games. Better than the players do, who are simply just wrong about 99.9% of the time.
SOE has done fine job in this regard. And has one of the strongest distribution system in the genre.
Oh god, you are such a SoE shill.
You either work for SoE, have family working there, have stocks in them or play some game from SoE you don't want to see die.
I KNOW it's one of the four. You are SO obvious.
Every time I see your avatar I have to puke in disgust when I see how biased your opinions are.
More likely looking for some free SC (publishers now don't even hide paying off players to advertize the game).
I love how facts, reality, and logic make you a paid employee.
You guys need to wake up, and stop living in this dream land of yours.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How does a company like SoE keep getting more MMO's to publish?
Simple, wither you want to admit it or not, they know their business, know their audiences, and know how to make games. Better than the players do, who are simply just wrong about 99.9% of the time.
SOE has done fine job in this regard. And has one of the strongest distribution system in the genre.
Oh god, you are such a SoE shill.
You either work for SoE, have family working there, have stocks in them or play some game from SoE you don't want to see die.
I KNOW it's one of the four. You are SO obvious.
Every time I see your avatar I have to puke in disgust when I see how biased your opinions are.
More likely looking for some free SC (publishers now don't even hide paying off players to advertize the game).
I love how facts, reality, and logic make you a paid employee.
You guys need to wake up, and stop living in this dream land of yours.
What's the going fee of being a tin foiled SoE troll? 150 SC?
I answered the question, don’t flame me because of your personal lack of understanding, and grasping of reality.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I answered the question, don’t flame me because of your personal lack of understanding, and grasping of reality.
Naw, I'm thinking of yet another SoE fanboi posed for the photo (after buying stock in Reynolds aluminum).
I'm a fan of all games. Nothing i said was wrong.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I think the question is whether SOE is profitable or not. Personally, I don't and don't plan to play any of the SOE games. However, if they are profitable, who are we to tell them how they should be running their business?
Buying up failing game cheap (cheaper than to develop it) and milk some money out of subscribers (particularly the bundle deal) is a valid business model. It may not be very ethical, but it does bring home the bacon. It is all in whether SOE can make the financial numbers work.
they are good at publishing/distribution. And like what others said, they arent very good at manageing MMOs. The only mmo they really turned around was Vangaurd, and EQ2 is still going strong i believe too. The rest, MxO, PS, and SWG arent doing very well at all. I dont want to mention EQ because i have no idea where that game is at, atm as far as population.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Same thing with Vanguard.. Although, they are to blame for the failure of the game, due to pressing Sigil to release it early
Without SOE, it's probably fair to say there would be no Vanguard at all. They saved that game from the rubbish bin. Sigil had several years of development time and money from Microsoft, and they blew it way before SOE entered the picture.
Any failures with VG at launch are firmly on Sigil's head. They're the ones that had years to get their game together, and to program it properly.
Oh I agree 100% on the fact without SOE, Vanguard wouldnt be up and running now. But,,,, If you were in beta 2-3 like me, then you'd know SOE was the reason the game failed at launch... I remember November of 2006 Brad Mcquaid talking about revamping the character creation Screen before release, along with doing a full revamp/tune up on all the classes before release.. Not only that, but in LATE September of 2006, Sigil successfully increased the FPS of the game from roughly 50%... And in early December of 06, we had just began testing PvP... A few weeks later EVERY tester was shocked to hear the latest announcement that Vanguard would be released on January 27th of 2007... We all knew that was SOE pulling the strings from behind the scenes.. All the testers including myself ranted and pleaded with SOE/Sigil not to release the game at it's current state. It literally needed a good 6 more months of testing but SOE stated If the game didn't come out by then, Sigil along with Brad would be fired. They basically knew about the performance issue, crappy CC screen, animations that were being retuned, and every other problem plagueing the game.. But they didn't care about that,,, all they wanted was to see results and to make as much money as possible as soon as possible.
So yes, I blame SOE for VG's failure at launch. BUT, I do commend them for doing what they can to try and fix the game.. It is much better than it was at launch, but the population hasn't changed much since April of 07..
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I am thinking that when this batch of indie games hits the market that it may show people you don't need a major publisher to launch a game and make money. SOE has a lot of money. However, their market share has dwindled dramatically since 2003. Their games are widely less quality than most. Some of their games are downright horrible; MxO, SWG, PotBS, etc, etc. The Station Pass is also a good idea. It really is. You take a bunch of mediocre games and you charge one fee to allow players to play any and all of them whenever they would like to... Their lack of ethics and borderline illegal tactics have allowed me to happily NEVER play one of their games again.
MxO was not creating by SOE, they picked it up after Warner Bros dropped it
Vanguard was not created by SOE, they picked it up after the original publisher (I don't mean sigil I mean the company funding it before SOE took over) dropped it.
The only game they truly destroyed was SWG and the fans are the most to blame because I have decided they wouldn't have been satisfied either way.
I NEVER said they developed those games, I said they PUBLISH those games. I don't care who developed all those crap games the fact is that SOE is the publisher.
The "players" didn't ruin SWG, LucasArts and SOE ruined SWG by trying to steal the "WoW" formula, and failing miserable, and oh yeah, stealing subscriber money in doing so.
Anyways, development of crap games like Vanguard is one thing, but when you publish 20 MMO games that are almost ALL total crap, that's a pattern.
I am thinking that when this batch of indie games hits the market that it may show people you don't need a major publisher to launch a game and make money. SOE has a lot of money. However, their market share has dwindled dramatically since 2003. Their games are widely less quality than most. Some of their games are downright horrible; MxO, SWG, PotBS, etc, etc. The Station Pass is also a good idea. It really is. You take a bunch of mediocre games and you charge one fee to allow players to play any and all of them whenever they would like to... Their lack of ethics and borderline illegal tactics have allowed me to happily NEVER play one of their games again.
MxO was not creating by SOE, they picked it up after Warner Bros dropped it
Vanguard was not created by SOE, they picked it up after the original publisher (I don't mean sigil I mean the company funding it before SOE took over) dropped it.
The only game they truly destroyed was SWG and the fans are the most to blame because I have decided they wouldn't have been satisfied either way.
NO how dare you say it might not be SOEs fault for NGE. LA had a equal share in it. Also you can't blame them for doing it because its business but if they really lost as many subs as everyone likes to say then that is their fault for not reverting but LA proly said no.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Comments
Developers should NEVER make sequels to an MMO. All that would need to be changed is an engine rebuild with updated graphics and additional content. I mean look at Everquest, that game has endless content and could have just had the money that EQ2 took to develop spent on updated graphics and a large expansion.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
I Agree with InTheSea. Sony makes a very good product normally. SOE just happens to be a horrible problem that they just seem to not pay any attention to. Its almost like owning a little yippie dog that pees on your carpet all the time but you cant bring yourself to get rid of it. I really hope thats how Sony sees the issue.
<a href="http://www.enjin.com/"; alt="swtor guild hosting"><img src="http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-swtor/078143aeee5205ec.png"></a>;
Without SOE, it's probably fair to say there would be no Vanguard at all. They saved that game from the rubbish bin. Sigil had several years of development time and money from Microsoft, and they blew it way before SOE entered the picture.
Any failures with VG at launch are firmly on Sigil's head. They're the ones that had years to get their game together, and to program it properly.
Truth Hurts, and thanks for perpetuating exactly what I was saying. My post also had nothing to do with opinions, its fact. Hence, SOE continues, and will continue to publish, create and operate games.
Guess what, your wrong. They have one of the best distribution systems in the genre, and the technical knowledge is second to none as far as hosting and support of very different products.
Your personal opinion is irrelevant when answering the OPs question, as is most of the responses in this thread.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Please to be understanding the difference between Sony, and SOE. Thanks.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I have no personal stake in the SOE debate, so take my opinion for what it's worth...
But, you have to look at major MMO publishers the same way you'd view major record labels or network television or pretty much any "suits" for that matter: they're only in it for the money. Bottom line. They don't care about art or true entertainment or creativity or any of that. They're just after that next dollar. Usually, that means catering to the mainstream and the crowds of screaming 13 year old girls that will, with 100% predictability, buy every single album from every single shitty, hacked, manufactured band that you can churn out. Want proof? Just flip over to MTV or VH1 or FM radio and check out the kind of absolute crap that, some how, rakes in the dollars. It's completely baffling. The only justice you get is in watching those same crappy music groups get booed off the stage during half time of a major college football bowl. To be honest though, that is pretty satisfying...
When you get down to it, the MMO crowd of today is no different. Every smaller title MMO gets slammed for having dated graphics or less polish or not enough "content". So, why do we act surprised when the AAA MMOs go out of their way to deliver a shiny, polished, soul less, shallow game? That's what the market demanded right?
Oh god, you are such a SoE shill.
You either work for SoE, have family working there, have stocks in them or play some game from SoE you don't want to see die.
I KNOW it's one of the four. You are SO obvious.
Every time I see your avatar I have to puke in disgust when I see how biased your opinions are.
More likely looking for some free SC (publishers now don't even hide paying off players to advertize the game).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Oh god, you are such a SoE shill.
You either work for SoE, have family working there, have stocks in them or play some game from SoE you don't want to see die.
I KNOW it's one of the four. You are SO obvious.
Every time I see your avatar I have to puke in disgust when I see how biased your opinions are.
More likely looking for some free SC (publishers now don't even hide paying off players to advertize the game).
I love how facts, reality, and logic make you a paid employee.
You guys need to wake up, and stop living in this dream land of yours.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Oh god, you are such a SoE shill.
You either work for SoE, have family working there, have stocks in them or play some game from SoE you don't want to see die.
I KNOW it's one of the four. You are SO obvious.
Every time I see your avatar I have to puke in disgust when I see how biased your opinions are.
More likely looking for some free SC (publishers now don't even hide paying off players to advertize the game).
I love how facts, reality, and logic make you a paid employee.
You guys need to wake up, and stop living in this dream land of yours.
What's the going fee of being a tin foiled SoE troll? 150 SC?
Talking about working for pea-nuts!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
I answered the question, don’t flame me because of your personal lack of understanding, and grasping of reality.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Naw, I'm thinking of yet another SoE fanboi posed for the photo (after buying stock in Reynolds aluminum).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Naw, I'm thinking of yet another SoE fanboi posed for the photo (after buying stock in Reynolds aluminum).
I'm a fan of all games. Nothing i said was wrong.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I think the question is whether SOE is profitable or not. Personally, I don't and don't plan to play any of the SOE games. However, if they are profitable, who are we to tell them how they should be running their business?
Buying up failing game cheap (cheaper than to develop it) and milk some money out of subscribers (particularly the bundle deal) is a valid business model. It may not be very ethical, but it does bring home the bacon. It is all in whether SOE can make the financial numbers work.
they are good at publishing/distribution. And like what others said, they arent very good at manageing MMOs. The only mmo they really turned around was Vangaurd, and EQ2 is still going strong i believe too. The rest, MxO, PS, and SWG arent doing very well at all. I dont want to mention EQ because i have no idea where that game is at, atm as far as population.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Without SOE, it's probably fair to say there would be no Vanguard at all. They saved that game from the rubbish bin. Sigil had several years of development time and money from Microsoft, and they blew it way before SOE entered the picture.
Any failures with VG at launch are firmly on Sigil's head. They're the ones that had years to get their game together, and to program it properly.
Oh I agree 100% on the fact without SOE, Vanguard wouldnt be up and running now. But,,,, If you were in beta 2-3 like me, then you'd know SOE was the reason the game failed at launch... I remember November of 2006 Brad Mcquaid talking about revamping the character creation Screen before release, along with doing a full revamp/tune up on all the classes before release.. Not only that, but in LATE September of 2006, Sigil successfully increased the FPS of the game from roughly 50%... And in early December of 06, we had just began testing PvP... A few weeks later EVERY tester was shocked to hear the latest announcement that Vanguard would be released on January 27th of 2007... We all knew that was SOE pulling the strings from behind the scenes.. All the testers including myself ranted and pleaded with SOE/Sigil not to release the game at it's current state. It literally needed a good 6 more months of testing but SOE stated If the game didn't come out by then, Sigil along with Brad would be fired. They basically knew about the performance issue, crappy CC screen, animations that were being retuned, and every other problem plagueing the game.. But they didn't care about that,,, all they wanted was to see results and to make as much money as possible as soon as possible.
So yes, I blame SOE for VG's failure at launch. BUT, I do commend them for doing what they can to try and fix the game.. It is much better than it was at launch, but the population hasn't changed much since April of 07..
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I thought the same thing about gamengame.
MxO was not creating by SOE, they picked it up after Warner Bros dropped it
Vanguard was not created by SOE, they picked it up after the original publisher (I don't mean sigil I mean the company funding it before SOE took over) dropped it.
The only game they truly destroyed was SWG and the fans are the most to blame because I have decided they wouldn't have been satisfied either way.
I NEVER said they developed those games, I said they PUBLISH those games. I don't care who developed all those crap games the fact is that SOE is the publisher.
The "players" didn't ruin SWG, LucasArts and SOE ruined SWG by trying to steal the "WoW" formula, and failing miserable, and oh yeah, stealing subscriber money in doing so.
Anyways, development of crap games like Vanguard is one thing, but when you publish 20 MMO games that are almost ALL total crap, that's a pattern.
SOE lacks quality.
Tecmo Bowl.
MxO was not creating by SOE, they picked it up after Warner Bros dropped it
Vanguard was not created by SOE, they picked it up after the original publisher (I don't mean sigil I mean the company funding it before SOE took over) dropped it.
The only game they truly destroyed was SWG and the fans are the most to blame because I have decided they wouldn't have been satisfied either way.
NO how dare you say it might not be SOEs fault for NGE. LA had a equal share in it. Also you can't blame them for doing it because its business but if they really lost as many subs as everyone likes to say then that is their fault for not reverting but LA proly said no.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD