The whole idea behind this game is the war ... not some small skirmish ... but a WAR between the Sith and the Jedi.
Jedi are more than plentiful (as are sith) at this period of time, and the war is supposed to be MASSIVE!
So, it looks like those of you that want a Jedi-less game are going to have to find a different MMO to play ... I hear Stargate is coming along nicely.
i have a feeling, those UnTeam Players. will ruin most fun to game.
i'm going to have a hunch and say that bioware is goign to take a lot of use to ur force powers...
why i rating what i did, is every one just is thinking how kotor is, think about it. everybody just cant be a jedi and rush into every battle being the same spec, theres going to have to be different kind of classes, and different variation of jedi to acomplish your goal.
for solo Gamers, learn to be a team player, stop being a jerk and being selfish.
------
For light side, probably going to have buffer's and healer's in battles.
+
For dark, probably have a person who lays curse's, and people who rage the other siths to fight harder.
After reading the original post, and it's subsequent responses, I was moved to comment on whether SW:TOR would "have a gabillion Jedi running around"! I think that everyone has overlooked the fact that Star Wars, like *every other* warriors' tale is always based on the basic premise of the lone, often misunderstood and aimless hero. The hero is given a quest by a powerful being, a quest which, in it's overwhelming complexity and difficulty, often demands he have help from an assortment of friends and cohorts! The odds are overwhelming, the villain all-powerful, the situation hopeless....In order to find his way, the protaganist must unite his friends, develop his skills, face the villain( who almost always, in a so-called twist, is actually tied to the hero in some overlooked but often surprising manner), and save the day.
All warrior tales since the original Chinese warrior tales of a thousand years ago have had this basic formula, and what makes them interesting is the immense characters, environments and locations that can be inserted in the build-a-story template.
The Jedi were based on the Samurai culture of the Asian continent, and George Lucas would be the first to admit it, and has on many occasions! The reason I mention this is because the Star Wars Galaxy, in any iteration, would not be the same without them, for they are the very reason Star Wars exists. What Star Wars Galaxy failed to do, and I hope sincerely that TOR finally gets right, is to realize that an MMO is always, always, *always* about the journey, not the destination!
Players should *never*, *ever* be allowed to start as a Jedi! And they must never be restricted from BECOMING a Jedi, either! Each player, as in life, must begin a journey based on their likes and dislikes, their upbringing and their hidden fantasies about their own lives! How many people do you know, including yourself, are doing today the exact thing, in the exact manner, for a living that they dreamed of being as a child? Not many, I would wager! i wanted to be an astronaut, a fireman and a policeman at different times in my early childhood, and today I have fulfilled only one of these goals, and the round about way in which I accomplished it would not be the way that most would have done it.....and yet, it is my experience in reaching this goal that has defined me as a person!
What would make TOR an unqualified success(other than the obvious), would be to make the journey to the top level in the 1st iteration of the game, the journey to actually become a Jedi or whatever character you choose to become! In other words, Luke did not choose to be a Jedi before he met Obi-Wan, and Leia did not choose to become a diplomat while she was playing Galactic Barbie...these choices were arrived at based on their experiences! TOR could make this the most enjoyable, exciting and must-be-played MMO of all time by simply allowing the journey to be *completely* determined by the players' choices!
After all, the Star Wars Galaxy and Mythos are filled with Jedi who became Jedi only after a lifetime of other experiences( especially KOTOR!) Purchase the game and pay attention to the back stories of the characters, and you will see that a number of the non-Jedi display Jedi-like abilities, which KOTOR 2 actually made a part of the gameplay!
The basic message of my response is that TOR's first 40(or 50, I don't know how many the game will have in actual first issue release) levels should be completed in order to determine the actual direction your character determines he would like to go! Can you imagine the pre-orders for the 1st expansion, not to mention the hype and interest in the community at-large! What the majority of MMO's do is get everyone to level cap as quickly as possible with a determined premise and storyline, and from then on, the character can no longer mature and grow! A character you have devoted hundreds of hours to, and suddenly, not with a bang but a whimper, there is no longer anything to do with it but stand around in the markets or beginner area and make stupid jokes and fire off lame emotes from then on! Or, Joy of Joys, start farming with it(whoop - ti-doo!).
So , I hope that TOR finally gets it right, by realizing that an MMO should constantly move forward, should constantly expand, and should constantly re-invent itself, just as we do in real life! Thanks for reading this, and good luck on *your* journey!
******************************"Impressive...most impressive! Your skills are complete!"
After reading the original post, and it's subsequent responses, I was moved to comment on whether SW:TOR would "have a gabillion Jedi running around"! I think that everyone has overlooked the fact that Star Wars, like *every other* warriors' tale is always based on the basic premise of the lone, often misunderstood and aimless hero. The hero is given a quest by a powerful being, a quest which, in it's overwhelming complexity and difficulty, often demands he have help from an assortment of friends and cohorts! The odds are overwhelming, the villain all-powerful, the situation hopeless....In order to find his way, the protaganist must unite his friends, develop his skills, face the villain( who almost always, in a so-called twist, is actually tied to the hero in some overlooked but often surprising manner), and save the day. All warrior tales since the original Chinese warrior tales of a thousand years ago have had this basic formula, and what makes them interesting is the immense characters, environments and locations that can be inserted in the build-a-story template. The Jedi were based on the Samurai culture of the Asian continent, and George Lucas would be the first to admit it, and has on many occasions! The reason I mention this is because the Star Wars Galaxy, in any iteration, would not be the same without them, for they are the very reason Star Wars exists. What Star Wars Galaxy failed to do, and I hope sincerely that TOR finally gets right, is to realize that an MMO is always, always, *always* about the journey, not the destination! Players should *never*, *ever* be allowed to start as a Jedi! And they must never be restricted from BECOMING a Jedi, either! Each player, as in life, must begin a journey based on their likes and dislikes, their upbringing and their hidden fantasies about their own lives! How many people do you know, including yourself, are doing today the exact thing, in the exact manner, for a living that they dreamed of being as a child? Not many, I would wager! i wanted to be an astronaut, a fireman and a policeman at different times in my early childhood, and today I have fulfilled only one of these goals, and the round about way in which I accomplished it would not be the way that most would have done it.....and yet, it is my experience in reaching this goal that has defined me as a person! What would make TOR an unqualified success(other than the obvious), would be to make the journey to the top level in the 1st iteration of the game, the journey to actually become a Jedi or whatever character you choose to become! In other words, Luke did not choose to be a Jedi before he met Obi-Wan, and Leia did not choose to become a diplomat while she was playing Galactic Barbie...these choices were arrived at based on their experiences! TOR could make this the most enjoyable, exciting and must-be-played MMO of all time by simply allowing the journey to be *completely* determined by the players' choices! After all, the Star Wars Galaxy and Mythos are filled with Jedi who became Jedi only after a lifetime of other experiences( especially KOTOR!) Purchase the game and pay attention to the back stories of the characters, and you will see that a number of the non-Jedi display Jedi-like abilities, which KOTOR 2 actually made a part of the gameplay! The basic message of my response is that TOR's first 40(or 50, I don't know how many the game will have in actual first issue release) levels should be completed in order to determine the actual direction your character determines he would like to go! Can you imagine the pre-orders for the 1st expansion, not to mention the hype and interest in the community at-large! What the majority of MMO's do is get everyone to level cap as quickly as possible with a determined premise and storyline, and from then on, the character can no longer mature and grow! A character you have devoted hundreds of hours to, and suddenly, not with a bang but a whimper, there is no longer anything to do with it but stand around in the markets or beginner area and make stupid jokes and fire off lame emotes from then on! Or, Joy of Joys, start farming with it(whoop - ti-doo!). So , I hope that TOR finally gets it right, by realizing that an MMO should constantly move forward, should constantly expand, and should constantly re-invent itself, just as we do in real life! Thanks for reading this, and good luck on *your* journey!
If jedi are not a starting option, I will not start playing this game. I didn't play SWG for the same reason. It just wouldn't be star wars to me.
After reading the original post, and it's subsequent responses, I was moved to comment on whether SW:TOR would "have a gabillion Jedi running around"! I think that everyone has overlooked the fact that Star Wars, like *every other* warriors' tale is always based on the basic premise of the lone, often misunderstood and aimless hero. The hero is given a quest by a powerful being, a quest which, in it's overwhelming complexity and difficulty, often demands he have help from an assortment of friends and cohorts! The odds are overwhelming, the villain all-powerful, the situation hopeless....In order to find his way, the protaganist must unite his friends, develop his skills, face the villain( who almost always, in a so-called twist, is actually tied to the hero in some overlooked but often surprising manner), and save the day. All warrior tales since the original Chinese warrior tales of a thousand years ago have had this basic formula, and what makes them interesting is the immense characters, environments and locations that can be inserted in the build-a-story template. The Jedi were based on the Samurai culture of the Asian continent, and George Lucas would be the first to admit it, and has on many occasions! The reason I mention this is because the Star Wars Galaxy, in any iteration, would not be the same without them, for they are the very reason Star Wars exists. What Star Wars Galaxy failed to do, and I hope sincerely that TOR finally gets right, is to realize that an MMO is always, always, *always* about the journey, not the destination! Players should *never*, *ever* be allowed to start as a Jedi! And they must never be restricted from BECOMING a Jedi, either! Each player, as in life, must begin a journey based on their likes and dislikes, their upbringing and their hidden fantasies about their own lives! How many people do you know, including yourself, are doing today the exact thing, in the exact manner, for a living that they dreamed of being as a child? Not many, I would wager! i wanted to be an astronaut, a fireman and a policeman at different times in my early childhood, and today I have fulfilled only one of these goals, and the round about way in which I accomplished it would not be the way that most would have done it.....and yet, it is my experience in reaching this goal that has defined me as a person! What would make TOR an unqualified success(other than the obvious), would be to make the journey to the top level in the 1st iteration of the game, the journey to actually become a Jedi or whatever character you choose to become! In other words, Luke did not choose to be a Jedi before he met Obi-Wan, and Leia did not choose to become a diplomat while she was playing Galactic Barbie...these choices were arrived at based on their experiences! TOR could make this the most enjoyable, exciting and must-be-played MMO of all time by simply allowing the journey to be *completely* determined by the players' choices! After all, the Star Wars Galaxy and Mythos are filled with Jedi who became Jedi only after a lifetime of other experiences( especially KOTOR!) Purchase the game and pay attention to the back stories of the characters, and you will see that a number of the non-Jedi display Jedi-like abilities, which KOTOR 2 actually made a part of the gameplay! The basic message of my response is that TOR's first 40(or 50, I don't know how many the game will have in actual first issue release) levels should be completed in order to determine the actual direction your character determines he would like to go! Can you imagine the pre-orders for the 1st expansion, not to mention the hype and interest in the community at-large! What the majority of MMO's do is get everyone to level cap as quickly as possible with a determined premise and storyline, and from then on, the character can no longer mature and grow! A character you have devoted hundreds of hours to, and suddenly, not with a bang but a whimper, there is no longer anything to do with it but stand around in the markets or beginner area and make stupid jokes and fire off lame emotes from then on! Or, Joy of Joys, start farming with it(whoop - ti-doo!). So , I hope that TOR finally gets it right, by realizing that an MMO should constantly move forward, should constantly expand, and should constantly re-invent itself, just as we do in real life! Thanks for reading this, and good luck on *your* journey!
If jedi are not a starting option, I will not start playing this game. I didn't play SWG for the same reason. It just wouldn't be star wars to me.
what i have to say to u, then dont play...
im with dark on most things, but the bioware altering the mmo all the time. it takes them lots of money and devotion of time to do that, not to mention. u played kotor. u know how long it takes to write all those conversations? i can see making a expansion for new levels and stuff and conversations.or some patch adding end time things. but u dont want to make the game to long to level, or people will be fed up.
now to freddy. just getting jedi when start out is like. getting a credit card with no limit at age 5. its being complete spoiled, and you have nothing to work at. u acomplished nothing. you didnt even get the other weapons a try, and probably will be a nub jedi from not even experiancing basic combat swords.
~now i agree on working on it, to know the mechanics, to not just get the most credited class in the game. and I think i can speak for most and say We dont want this to 'Be Like WOW'.
<snip> ...What Star Wars Galaxy failed to do, and I hope sincerely that TOR finally gets right, is to realize that an MMO is always, always, *always* about the journey, not the destination! Players should *never*, *ever* be allowed to start as a Jedi! And they must never be restricted from BECOMING a Jedi, either! ... <snip>
Doesn't this contradict itself? Then players would simply be worried about the destination of becoming a jedi, not the journey.
I suspect it isn't a question of whether players will be Jedi, rather the decision will be, what path does your Jedi follow, and what type of jedi powers will you focus on?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Of course the game will cater to the Jedi crowd. Don't set yourself up for disappointment by hoping otherwise. The masses love cliche, and nothing is more cliche than a mystical sword-wielding holier-than-thou monk (or worse, the dark side version) with godlike powers and a penchant for quoting zen nonsense.
To most people, SW = Jedi, and while this is unfortunate and incredibly short-sighted, it is what it is. Play table-top and make your own stories if you want to get away from the Jedi status quo.
Lets do a thought experiment... Lets remove this from Star Wars: -Starships (TIE Fighters, X-Wings. Star Destroyers etc) -Stormtroopers (The soldiers) -Alien Races (Bothans, wokiees, Rodians etc) -Pirates/Smuggler/Bountyhunters (The scum of a glaxy) -Speederbikes (Including pods) -Alien planets (Tattooine, Endor, Coruscant etc.) -Blasters (Laser, blaster, kinetic weapons of all kinds that are not lightsabres)
What Star Wars is left, when all but lightsabres have been removed? Nothing... Or even remove one of these above..and you still would have lost the Star Wars. But remove the lightsabre, and Star Wars is still there.....
remove the lightsaber and star wars is still there? sorry i just cant follow thinking we have to remove anything. Do you people not understand that Bioware is creating a massive star wars universe. "The game has more content then every game weve made put together." So why does it even matter about lightsabers. Just pull up your panties make a character that shoots a pistol and stay on your side of the universe.
haha, no kidding, i wish you werent able to even play a jedi. kind of like lotro, where you cant be a wizard...because they are too powerful.
Or maybe it was becuase there are a grand total of what? 8 magic users or some other really low number. During the OR jedi were common. There were whole armies of them unlike LOTR elders.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Lets do a thought experiment... Lets remove this from Star Wars: -Starships (TIE Fighters, X-Wings. Star Destroyers etc) -Stormtroopers (The soldiers) -Alien Races (Bothans, wokiees, Rodians etc) -Pirates/Smuggler/Bountyhunters (The scum of a glaxy) -Speederbikes (Including pods) -Alien planets (Tattooine, Endor, Coruscant etc.) -Blasters (Laser, blaster, kinetic weapons of all kinds that are not lightsabres)
What Star Wars is left, when all but lightsabres have been removed? Nothing... Or even remove one of these above..and you still would have lost the Star Wars. But remove the lightsabre, and Star Wars is still there.....
No then you have a science fiction game. Yes those things are SW but all Sci-fi IPs have spaceships exotic races and blasters. LS are SW trademark just as the enterprise is to ST. Its the one thing that everyone would recongize in a instant that make the IP.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
There will be other characters to play other than Jedi but the main focus will be on the Jedi/Sith war. I really don't think any catering to one specific class will be happening.
Lets do a thought experiment... Lets remove this from Star Wars: -Starships (TIE Fighters, X-Wings. Star Destroyers etc) -Stormtroopers (The soldiers) -Alien Races (Bothans, wokiees, Rodians etc) -Pirates/Smuggler/Bountyhunters (The scum of a glaxy) -Speederbikes (Including pods) -Alien planets (Tattooine, Endor, Coruscant etc.) -Blasters (Laser, blaster, kinetic weapons of all kinds that are not lightsabres)
What Star Wars is left, when all but lightsabres have been removed? Nothing... Or even remove one of these above..and you still would have lost the Star Wars. But remove the lightsabre, and Star Wars is still there.....
remove the lightsaber and star wars is still there? sorry i just cant follow thinking we have to remove anything. Do you people not understand that Bioware is creating a massive star wars universe. "The game has more content then every game weve made put together." So why does it even matter about lightsabers. Just pull up your panties make a character that shoots a pistol and stay on your side of the universe.
Dark Forces was a much more Star Wars type game than SWG ever was. The X-Wing and Tie Fighter games were much more Star Wars games than SWG ever was. None of those games included Jedi. You can easily do Star Wars without lightsabers. Hell, those games were much more like Star Wars than almost every other Star Wars game. The Jedi Knight games were the only other Star Wars games that felt like they had a part in the Star Wars universe, and they did of course involve Jedi.
That said, TOR is set in a time period that Jedi are plentiful. Jedi will be a signifiacnt part of the game, and it won't detract from the Star Wars ness of the game. There is plenty that BioWare can do to screw TOR up, but including Jedi, as a starting class, is among the least.
Lets do a thought experiment... Lets remove this from Star Wars: -Starships (TIE Fighters, X-Wings. Star Destroyers etc) -Stormtroopers (The soldiers) -Alien Races (Bothans, wokiees, Rodians etc) -Pirates/Smuggler/Bountyhunters (The scum of a glaxy) -Speederbikes (Including pods) -Alien planets (Tattooine, Endor, Coruscant etc.) -Blasters (Laser, blaster, kinetic weapons of all kinds that are not lightsabres)
What Star Wars is left, when all but lightsabres have been removed? Nothing... Or even remove one of these above..and you still would have lost the Star Wars. But remove the lightsabre, and Star Wars is still there.....
remove the lightsaber and star wars is still there? sorry i just cant follow thinking we have to remove anything. Do you people not understand that Bioware is creating a massive star wars universe. "The game has more content then every game weve made put together." So why does it even matter about lightsabers. Just pull up your panties make a character that shoots a pistol and stay on your side of the universe.
Dark Forces was a much more Star Wars type game than SWG ever was. The X-Wing and Tie Fighter games were much more Star Wars games than SWG ever was. None of those games included Jedi. You can easily do Star Wars without lightsabers. Hell, those games were much more like Star Wars than almost every other Star Wars game. The Jedi Knight games were the only other Star Wars games that felt like they had a part in the Star Wars universe, and they did of course involve Jedi.
That said, TOR is set in a time period that Jedi are plentiful. Jedi will be a signifiacnt part of the game, and it won't detract from the Star Wars ness of the game. There is plenty that BioWare can do to screw TOR up, but including Jedi, as a starting class, is among the least.
i pretty much agree with everything u have stated in that. some of these people are closed minded, and prided. to only have it where they think "If Its not exactly how i want every detail, i wont play". well the thing 1vote makes a difference. doesn't really act, when another vote thinks to differ. also u have to under stand the company, they cant snap there finger. bam its done. why dont u kind of people try to write a game?
now, was a lil off topic relating to my quote on ur post. but yes, i dont think most people even played the old star wars games that are mainly talking here. for all we know they could be little kids, or teens; that are only familar to games like: Force unleashed, Jedi Outcast, jedi academy. which were all based on jedi's. playing this factor of jedi being the "All powerfull" source of fighting. and wide range of abilities. GG Lucas Arts For this Concept focused on jedi's?
There will be other characters to play other than Jedi but the main focus will be on the Jedi/Sith war. I really don't think any catering to one specific class will be happening.
The main focus will be on the Sith/Republic war/armistice. The fiction behind the game is that the Sith conquered their way through Coronet, and then agreed to a cease fire with the agreement that they were given several of the Republic's worlds to control. The game is set where the cease fire is still on, but that hostilities are still ongoing. The Jedi are supposed to be kindasorta split from the Republic at this point.
There will be non-Jedi on both sides, and players will be able to play those non-Jedi. We are currently hearing so much about Jedi because LucasArts has been convinced that Jedi is the single most important part of Star Wars since SOE sold them on the NGE. That line of thinking will be reinforced by the majority of the folks who play TOR, who will create a Jedi character, be it Jedi or Sith.
I don't think it is so much that Jedi attract more players, than it is that when given the choice, players will give Jedi a try. I really hope BioWare spends some time on giving people a reason to play non-Jedi characters, without making Jedi unfun to play. Just think how much SWG would have been improved if the lesser used professions were given a reason to play, as opposed to being removed and replaced by nine crappy classes.
Make the non-Jedi classes fun to play and people will play them.
Thinking back to all the problems that started in SWG (Yes I know this game is not SWG or SOE) but I am getting the feeling looking at all the "Can I be a Jedi posts" that there is gonna be more Jedi in this game running around then the other classes (if there are any) in the game.
Sure, sure I know it is set thousands of years before Anakin is born and such but what roles and possibilities can be produced by giving bonuses to a world/universe filled with Jedi players and 20 gabillion Jedi counsels being set up in a game? I'm starting to worry not because of the game's dynamic but because of the nature of people's playing (History always repeats itself).
I can see your worries; that having billions of counsels and sith orders would spoil the role playing atmosphere like in a game which shall not be named. lol Purple wookies running around with names like Chewtaco.
These are major issues on any MMORPG, for the fact that roleplaying isn't exactly enforced. Players just do whatever they want and assume a second life that goes outside of the lore of the game they are playing.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
Why should Jedi NOT be a starting profession? (For the purposes of this post, "Jedi" refers to both Jedi and Sith force users).
Lets break down the arguments
FOR Jedi being a starting profession
THIS ISN'T SWG LOLOLOL
Correct, but SWG's failures and successes can be looked at and used to make this game better. Devs at SWG had a very hard time decided how to best implement Jedi into the game, so SWG cannot be discredited in this context.
There are loads of Jedis in KOTOR, we should be allowed to be one!!
Yes, you played a Jedi that meant you interacted with many fellow Jedi, conversely a grunt on the frontline would rarely see any Jedi or be involved in Jedi affairs, and even though there were a lot more than the timeline set in the film, they were still a vast minority. The percentage of "normal people" (normal people being your Republic/Sith soldiers, bounty hunters, pilots, or anything likeable to the classes that are likely to appear in the game) is incredibly disproportionate to the amount of jedi there would be. This simple illustration means that Jedi is unsuitable to be a bog standard class.
AGAINST Jedi being a starting profession
Jedi are too powerful to be a normal, starting class. (If lore is to be followed).
Correct, look at what a Jedi is, an individual of enormous power. It simply does not make sense to offer Jedi as a starting profession if it is going to have equal offensive capability as your standard fighting class, as that is grossly inconsistent with the lore. If on the other hand they were more powerful, this would make all other offensive classes redundant and underplayed.
Jedi should be something that must be worked towards/unlocked.
Agreed. Because of the above reasons, it would be daft to offer Jedi as a starting profession, as there is no feasible way to implement it, but rather have a system similar to hologrind/village (a system where you need to work towards becoming a Jedi rather, not an exact replica of the hologring/village), Blizzard wanted to do this with the DK class (a questline) but ended up just giving them away to anyone who had a character above lvl 55.
The NGE is a great example of how instant Jedi fails.
Agreed. Whilst the NGE brought widespread changes which annoyed the SWG vets, I can remember logging in and absoloutely EVERYONE was wearing padawan robes and holding a lightsaber. The NGE is proof that Jedi should be reserved for those willing to work for it. Yes, I can hear people saying ITS ANOTHER GAME FFS/THIS ISNT SOE OR SWG blah blah blah. The NGE is real life, market tested proof that used the system of instant Jedi, and it was a commercial failure. How is the TOR system going to have a different effect? It won't.
-------------------------------
So the main issue facing TOR developers regarding Jedi is this:
"Do we offer Jedi as a starting profession?" Yes/No
"Are Jedi players going to be more powerful than other offensive classes?" Yes/No
No matter what the outcome is, there are going to be inconsistencies and more problems arising.
-------------------------------
I'm an objective person, and whilst I've looked at this, I've used reasonable judgment and existing evidence to come to a conclusion. I don't think anyone can disagree with what I've written, (however people undoubtedly will) so I challenge anyone to try and debunk my argument.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
i hated seeing my jedi in swg using the light saber as a bat. If they are swinging around glowing bats in this game i a going to laugh my ass off.
but the only way I can see them getting around this is if they make EVERYONE a jedi, and make the majority of fights blocking each other with one hit kills.
or
make noone a jedi, make them npc controlled and decently rare, but INCREDIBLY powerful, one hit kill. This system keeps seeing a jedi fight a thrilling experience. I think any other system will end up like swg where seeing a jedi eventually went from "WOW... did you see that jedi!?" to the point where it was just another class you saw walking around
Im thinking that they should do something like WOW does with the death knight. say you have to have a character to a certain level before you can make a jedi.
Comments
The whole idea behind this game is the war ... not some small skirmish ... but a WAR between the Sith and the Jedi.
Jedi are more than plentiful (as are sith) at this period of time, and the war is supposed to be MASSIVE!
So, it looks like those of you that want a Jedi-less game are going to have to find a different MMO to play ... I hear Stargate is coming along nicely.
Personally I can't wait for this game.
i have a feeling, those UnTeam Players. will ruin most fun to game.
i'm going to have a hunch and say that bioware is goign to take a lot of use to ur force powers...
why i rating what i did, is every one just is thinking how kotor is, think about it. everybody just cant be a jedi and rush into every battle being the same spec, theres going to have to be different kind of classes, and different variation of jedi to acomplish your goal.
for solo Gamers, learn to be a team player, stop being a jerk and being selfish.
------
For light side, probably going to have buffer's and healer's in battles.
+
For dark, probably have a person who lays curse's, and people who rage the other siths to fight harder.
--------------
After reading the original post, and it's subsequent responses, I was moved to comment on whether SW:TOR would "have a gabillion Jedi running around"! I think that everyone has overlooked the fact that Star Wars, like *every other* warriors' tale is always based on the basic premise of the lone, often misunderstood and aimless hero. The hero is given a quest by a powerful being, a quest which, in it's overwhelming complexity and difficulty, often demands he have help from an assortment of friends and cohorts! The odds are overwhelming, the villain all-powerful, the situation hopeless....In order to find his way, the protaganist must unite his friends, develop his skills, face the villain( who almost always, in a so-called twist, is actually tied to the hero in some overlooked but often surprising manner), and save the day.
All warrior tales since the original Chinese warrior tales of a thousand years ago have had this basic formula, and what makes them interesting is the immense characters, environments and locations that can be inserted in the build-a-story template.
The Jedi were based on the Samurai culture of the Asian continent, and George Lucas would be the first to admit it, and has on many occasions! The reason I mention this is because the Star Wars Galaxy, in any iteration, would not be the same without them, for they are the very reason Star Wars exists. What Star Wars Galaxy failed to do, and I hope sincerely that TOR finally gets right, is to realize that an MMO is always, always, *always* about the journey, not the destination!
Players should *never*, *ever* be allowed to start as a Jedi! And they must never be restricted from BECOMING a Jedi, either! Each player, as in life, must begin a journey based on their likes and dislikes, their upbringing and their hidden fantasies about their own lives! How many people do you know, including yourself, are doing today the exact thing, in the exact manner, for a living that they dreamed of being as a child? Not many, I would wager! i wanted to be an astronaut, a fireman and a policeman at different times in my early childhood, and today I have fulfilled only one of these goals, and the round about way in which I accomplished it would not be the way that most would have done it.....and yet, it is my experience in reaching this goal that has defined me as a person!
What would make TOR an unqualified success(other than the obvious), would be to make the journey to the top level in the 1st iteration of the game, the journey to actually become a Jedi or whatever character you choose to become! In other words, Luke did not choose to be a Jedi before he met Obi-Wan, and Leia did not choose to become a diplomat while she was playing Galactic Barbie...these choices were arrived at based on their experiences! TOR could make this the most enjoyable, exciting and must-be-played MMO of all time by simply allowing the journey to be *completely* determined by the players' choices!
After all, the Star Wars Galaxy and Mythos are filled with Jedi who became Jedi only after a lifetime of other experiences( especially KOTOR!) Purchase the game and pay attention to the back stories of the characters, and you will see that a number of the non-Jedi display Jedi-like abilities, which KOTOR 2 actually made a part of the gameplay!
The basic message of my response is that TOR's first 40(or 50, I don't know how many the game will have in actual first issue release) levels should be completed in order to determine the actual direction your character determines he would like to go! Can you imagine the pre-orders for the 1st expansion, not to mention the hype and interest in the community at-large! What the majority of MMO's do is get everyone to level cap as quickly as possible with a determined premise and storyline, and from then on, the character can no longer mature and grow! A character you have devoted hundreds of hours to, and suddenly, not with a bang but a whimper, there is no longer anything to do with it but stand around in the markets or beginner area and make stupid jokes and fire off lame emotes from then on! Or, Joy of Joys, start farming with it(whoop - ti-doo!).
So , I hope that TOR finally gets it right, by realizing that an MMO should constantly move forward, should constantly expand, and should constantly re-invent itself, just as we do in real life! Thanks for reading this, and good luck on *your* journey!
******************************"Impressive...most impressive! Your skills are complete!"
If jedi are not a starting option, I will not start playing this game. I didn't play SWG for the same reason. It just wouldn't be star wars to me.
If jedi are not a starting option, I will not start playing this game. I didn't play SWG for the same reason. It just wouldn't be star wars to me.
what i have to say to u, then dont play...
im with dark on most things, but the bioware altering the mmo all the time. it takes them lots of money and devotion of time to do that, not to mention. u played kotor. u know how long it takes to write all those conversations? i can see making a expansion for new levels and stuff and conversations.or some patch adding end time things. but u dont want to make the game to long to level, or people will be fed up.
now to freddy. just getting jedi when start out is like. getting a credit card with no limit at age 5. its being complete spoiled, and you have nothing to work at. u acomplished nothing. you didnt even get the other weapons a try, and probably will be a nub jedi from not even experiancing basic combat swords.
~now i agree on working on it, to know the mechanics, to not just get the most credited class in the game. and I think i can speak for most and say We dont want this to 'Be Like WOW'.
Doesn't this contradict itself? Then players would simply be worried about the destination of becoming a jedi, not the journey.
I suspect it isn't a question of whether players will be Jedi, rather the decision will be, what path does your Jedi follow, and what type of jedi powers will you focus on?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you ever played KOTRO and KOTOR2, you would know that you dont even get a friggin light saber till near the end of the game. Pissed me off tbh
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
Of course the game will cater to the Jedi crowd. Don't set yourself up for disappointment by hoping otherwise. The masses love cliche, and nothing is more cliche than a mystical sword-wielding holier-than-thou monk (or worse, the dark side version) with godlike powers and a penchant for quoting zen nonsense.
To most people, SW = Jedi, and while this is unfortunate and incredibly short-sighted, it is what it is. Play table-top and make your own stories if you want to get away from the Jedi status quo.
this isint swg kthxbye
remove the lightsaber and star wars is still there? sorry i just cant follow thinking we have to remove anything. Do you people not understand that Bioware is creating a massive star wars universe. "The game has more content then every game weve made put together." So why does it even matter about lightsabers. Just pull up your panties make a character that shoots a pistol and stay on your side of the universe.
I hope they just do Jedi. All the classes as different types of Jedi would be fine with me. :P
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Or maybe it was becuase there are a grand total of what? 8 magic users or some other really low number. During the OR jedi were common. There were whole armies of them unlike LOTR elders.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
No then you have a science fiction game. Yes those things are SW but all Sci-fi IPs have spaceships exotic races and blasters. LS are SW trademark just as the enterprise is to ST. Its the one thing that everyone would recongize in a instant that make the IP.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
There will be other characters to play other than Jedi but the main focus will be on the Jedi/Sith war. I really don't think any catering to one specific class will be happening.
remove the lightsaber and star wars is still there? sorry i just cant follow thinking we have to remove anything. Do you people not understand that Bioware is creating a massive star wars universe. "The game has more content then every game weve made put together." So why does it even matter about lightsabers. Just pull up your panties make a character that shoots a pistol and stay on your side of the universe.
Dark Forces was a much more Star Wars type game than SWG ever was. The X-Wing and Tie Fighter games were much more Star Wars games than SWG ever was. None of those games included Jedi. You can easily do Star Wars without lightsabers. Hell, those games were much more like Star Wars than almost every other Star Wars game. The Jedi Knight games were the only other Star Wars games that felt like they had a part in the Star Wars universe, and they did of course involve Jedi.
That said, TOR is set in a time period that Jedi are plentiful. Jedi will be a signifiacnt part of the game, and it won't detract from the Star Wars ness of the game. There is plenty that BioWare can do to screw TOR up, but including Jedi, as a starting class, is among the least.
i think u just got unlucky lol.. i had my light saber in kotor 1. half way, and kotor 2. half way (only cuz i snatched one off some random sith)
remove the lightsaber and star wars is still there? sorry i just cant follow thinking we have to remove anything. Do you people not understand that Bioware is creating a massive star wars universe. "The game has more content then every game weve made put together." So why does it even matter about lightsabers. Just pull up your panties make a character that shoots a pistol and stay on your side of the universe.
Dark Forces was a much more Star Wars type game than SWG ever was. The X-Wing and Tie Fighter games were much more Star Wars games than SWG ever was. None of those games included Jedi. You can easily do Star Wars without lightsabers. Hell, those games were much more like Star Wars than almost every other Star Wars game. The Jedi Knight games were the only other Star Wars games that felt like they had a part in the Star Wars universe, and they did of course involve Jedi.
That said, TOR is set in a time period that Jedi are plentiful. Jedi will be a signifiacnt part of the game, and it won't detract from the Star Wars ness of the game. There is plenty that BioWare can do to screw TOR up, but including Jedi, as a starting class, is among the least.
i pretty much agree with everything u have stated in that. some of these people are closed minded, and prided. to only have it where they think "If Its not exactly how i want every detail, i wont play". well the thing 1vote makes a difference. doesn't really act, when another vote thinks to differ. also u have to under stand the company, they cant snap there finger. bam its done. why dont u kind of people try to write a game?
now, was a lil off topic relating to my quote on ur post. but yes, i dont think most people even played the old star wars games that are mainly talking here. for all we know they could be little kids, or teens; that are only familar to games like: Force unleashed, Jedi Outcast, jedi academy. which were all based on jedi's. playing this factor of jedi being the "All powerfull" source of fighting. and wide range of abilities. GG Lucas Arts For this Concept focused on jedi's?
The main focus will be on the Sith/Republic war/armistice. The fiction behind the game is that the Sith conquered their way through Coronet, and then agreed to a cease fire with the agreement that they were given several of the Republic's worlds to control. The game is set where the cease fire is still on, but that hostilities are still ongoing. The Jedi are supposed to be kindasorta split from the Republic at this point.
There will be non-Jedi on both sides, and players will be able to play those non-Jedi. We are currently hearing so much about Jedi because LucasArts has been convinced that Jedi is the single most important part of Star Wars since SOE sold them on the NGE. That line of thinking will be reinforced by the majority of the folks who play TOR, who will create a Jedi character, be it Jedi or Sith.
I don't think it is so much that Jedi attract more players, than it is that when given the choice, players will give Jedi a try. I really hope BioWare spends some time on giving people a reason to play non-Jedi characters, without making Jedi unfun to play. Just think how much SWG would have been improved if the lesser used professions were given a reason to play, as opposed to being removed and replaced by nine crappy classes.
Make the non-Jedi classes fun to play and people will play them.
I can see your worries; that having billions of counsels and sith orders would spoil the role playing atmosphere like in a game which shall not be named. lol Purple wookies running around with names like Chewtaco.
These are major issues on any MMORPG, for the fact that roleplaying isn't exactly enforced. Players just do whatever they want and assume a second life that goes outside of the lore of the game they are playing.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
this game is all about everyone being a jedi/hero. this game is not for you. don't play it. go play SWG and role an entertainer.
My blog:
Why should Jedi NOT be a starting profession? (For the purposes of this post, "Jedi" refers to both Jedi and Sith force users).
Lets break down the arguments
FOR Jedi being a starting profession
Correct, but SWG's failures and successes can be looked at and used to make this game better. Devs at SWG had a very hard time decided how to best implement Jedi into the game, so SWG cannot be discredited in this context.
Yes, you played a Jedi that meant you interacted with many fellow Jedi, conversely a grunt on the frontline would rarely see any Jedi or be involved in Jedi affairs, and even though there were a lot more than the timeline set in the film, they were still a vast minority. The percentage of "normal people" (normal people being your Republic/Sith soldiers, bounty hunters, pilots, or anything likeable to the classes that are likely to appear in the game) is incredibly disproportionate to the amount of jedi there would be. This simple illustration means that Jedi is unsuitable to be a bog standard class.
AGAINST Jedi being a starting profession
Correct, look at what a Jedi is, an individual of enormous power. It simply does not make sense to offer Jedi as a starting profession if it is going to have equal offensive capability as your standard fighting class, as that is grossly inconsistent with the lore. If on the other hand they were more powerful, this would make all other offensive classes redundant and underplayed.
Agreed. Because of the above reasons, it would be daft to offer Jedi as a starting profession, as there is no feasible way to implement it, but rather have a system similar to hologrind/village (a system where you need to work towards becoming a Jedi rather, not an exact replica of the hologring/village), Blizzard wanted to do this with the DK class (a questline) but ended up just giving them away to anyone who had a character above lvl 55.
Agreed. Whilst the NGE brought widespread changes which annoyed the SWG vets, I can remember logging in and absoloutely EVERYONE was wearing padawan robes and holding a lightsaber. The NGE is proof that Jedi should be reserved for those willing to work for it. Yes, I can hear people saying ITS ANOTHER GAME FFS/THIS ISNT SOE OR SWG blah blah blah. The NGE is real life, market tested proof that used the system of instant Jedi, and it was a commercial failure. How is the TOR system going to have a different effect? It won't.
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So the main issue facing TOR developers regarding Jedi is this:
"Do we offer Jedi as a starting profession?" Yes/No
"Are Jedi players going to be more powerful than other offensive classes?" Yes/No
No matter what the outcome is, there are going to be inconsistencies and more problems arising.
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I'm an objective person, and whilst I've looked at this, I've used reasonable judgment and existing evidence to come to a conclusion. I don't think anyone can disagree with what I've written, (however people undoubtedly will) so I challenge anyone to try and debunk my argument.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.
The NGE has proven that "everyone's a hero" is a commercial failure.
This won't be anything different.
It forgoes the whole concept of MMORPGs, the whole point is you are a small part of something big, this bring people together towards a common goal.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.
i hated seeing my jedi in swg using the light saber as a bat. If they are swinging around glowing bats in this game i a going to laugh my ass off.
but the only way I can see them getting around this is if they make EVERYONE a jedi, and make the majority of fights blocking each other with one hit kills.
or
make noone a jedi, make them npc controlled and decently rare, but INCREDIBLY powerful, one hit kill. This system keeps seeing a jedi fight a thrilling experience. I think any other system will end up like swg where seeing a jedi eventually went from "WOW... did you see that jedi!?" to the point where it was just another class you saw walking around
Im thinking that they should do something like WOW does with the death knight. say you have to have a character to a certain level before you can make a jedi.