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vampyres real or myth?
demonicdemon
Member Posts: 150
okay so this sounds a little crazy i know but i have been reading a number of vampyres books watching movies and just doing some research.
now when i say vampyres i mean the cultural myths not the dracula type stereotypes. any theories you have behind the origins of vampyres. also any factual stories you have heard such as Vlad the Impaler would be cool. Theroies can seem as real or as ludicrous as you want, an intresting one i found was that vampires are phoybiasuffers or rabies suffers and it make some logical sensedue to the fact rabies suffers are hypersensitve to sunlight, have a tendence to bite others due to the diesease affecting the brain, suffer abnormal sleeping patterns or insomnia and justifies the link between rodents, bats, wolves and vampyres.
take what you can but not what isn't yours. "fight to the end and never give your enemy the satisfaction of victory"
Comments
Another one is that Countess ? Baroness? who filled a bathtub with the blood of virgins once or twice a month so that she would stay young forever. Killed the men and women and then used the blood to soak in ...
Thats pretty gruesome ... and minght be a link to teh "they live a damn long time" rumor.
Ehhh...
A decent vampire book i once read was Lord of the Damed (or Dead cant remember exactly) the Un-official Biography of Lord Byron.
It explains reasons why people think the things they do about vampires today, based on things that happened when he was young ...
Entertaining book anyway and not your crosses ,garlic ,hate the sun ,have sex ,and drink blood book.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
hmm i remeber hearing about that. thats pretty sadistic.
hmm i will have to have a read sounds good. actaully an inrtresting point my firend showed me about the imortality aspect of vamprism is how many heroes in ancient times are seen as "immortal" and some actaully drank the blood of opponets as a form of intimidation, prehaps this is another link to vampyres?
a good series for vampyres is darrenshans series
take what you can but not what isn't yours. "fight to the end and never give your enemy the satisfaction of victory"
Its possible, of course as long as your not refering to typical fantasy vampire's we make up all the time, like dracula.
yeah i'm not talking about this whole idea about dracula sterotypes i'm talking more about the more realistic cultural beliefs we see. like i doubt vampyres burn in the sun etc. like in many cultures they don't actaully drink blood but the lifeforce of humans etc and most do not burn in sunlight.
take what you can but not what isn't yours. "fight to the end and never give your enemy the satisfaction of victory"
The supposed blood bather would be Countess Bathory.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_B%C3%A1thory
fishermage.blogspot.com
He was from Romania, that much is certain...which undoubtedly started the entire 'thing' with Romania and supernatural beings...also most of the more outrageous stores are considered by many historians to be false.
Impaling was true, but this wasn't because he 'bathed in their blood' or whatnot but more that he was making an example of the nobles when he re-established control over Wallachia while other nobles he sent to his, now ruined, castle and forced them to rebuild.
The story about Vlad Tepes nailing turbans to the heads of foreign dignitaries is also considered to be true...however where they were from is debatable.
Vlad Tepes 'vampire ways' or what he may or may have done is considered to be suspect at best, so many different stories from many cultures and walks of life, from peasants to nobles exist...and Bram Stoker was no help in sorting out these myths from facts.
Vlad Tepes was a prince and a military leader who was a rather vicious and vindictive man...he was married to a noble line and had two sons and one more from a previous marriage so it's possible his lineage carries on even today.
He was a supposed Catholic and even had the ear of the church, most of his 'conquests' were even blessed by the church...or so the story goes.
Vlad Tepes seriously underestimated the Turks, which led to his downfall...he was killed during a battle but it's unclear as to how...some reports say a Turkish spy got him, other's say he fought bravely to the end, and still others claim he was killed by his own men.
yes vlad was what the author of dracula based his book upon loosely.
if you think about it however, vampyre history dates back to the BC periods, the sumarians the oldest known civilisation had myths about vampyres as did the egyptians. when cultures had no idea that other cultures exsisted aside from those just next to them, it makes logical sense that a form of vampyre must have exsisted due to so many cultures that have no contact between them having a beleifs in a form of vampyre, and many discriptions of vampyres are quite similar between cultures
take what you can but not what isn't yours. "fight to the end and never give your enemy the satisfaction of victory"
Not necessarily, while these supposed beings were part of myth long before Vlad Tepes..the term "Vampire" came about during the 18th century...the society in which these stories were created were largely unaware of certain conditions, both medical and otherwise, that would leave these people little option but to consider said condition to be 'supernatural'
Heliophobia-fear of the sun, Staurophobia-fear of crosses, Alliumphobia-fear of garlic.
Now imagine, if you will, being an onlooker in...let's say 14th century England, and you see a man or woman who is cowering in fear over a person holding a cross...or a person who never comes out of his house during the day, now with the limited knowledge of phobias on top of these tall-tales spun by the peasantry what would be your first suspicion?
Cannibalism in all it's different forms could've been misinterpreted as vampireism as well.
Then we have a condition known as "Thalassemia" it is a bood disorder that affects hemoglobin, a person with this condition needs blood transfusions...and the time of these transfusions? around every three weeks...like in vampire lore which stated that a vampire can live several weeks without blood, usually three or four.
Lastly we have Prophyria, which is actually eight different disorders...this disorder causes blistering and burning of the skin when exposed to the sun.
Did vampires exist at one time? i doubt it, instead i believe it to be stories passed down by people who simply couldn't explain what they saw.
I can pretend to be a ghost, i can 100% convince myself that i am one....i can wear a sheet and say 'boo' to everybody i come across, does this make me a supernatural being? no.
I'm not going to put down your uncle, i didn't know the man and frankly i have no right to do so...but he wasn't a vampire, no matter how much he believed he was.
Just sayin.
well for me i know its just a myth, as you know witches and wizards are the only noted in the bible so i must sya that i do not believe in vampires however balck magic user people can transform themselves into wild animal thats why they thought its was a vampire and so noted as a vampyres hehe
Hearse.
Yeah, I've killed a few. Us Ninjas are trying to take out as many Vamps as we can.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
About the blood thing:
The drinking blood from a fallen oponent would give you the strengh and health of your victim.
It makes a lot of sense, since our blood is what keep us alive an functioning, its the one who carries all the food and oxigen arround the body.
Also, when someone is old, sick, and rich, he can get blood transplants to make him healthier.
There are a lot of stories about old people feeling "younger" for getting blood from a younger donant, as there are stories about other kinds transplants.
I started playing Pen&Paper with Vampire the Mascarade so I have been always open to the idea of vampires. But the sad truth is that in many years i have seen none. On the other hand, you have a lot of missing people per year, and vampires are suposed to be few, so numbers add up at the end.
I liked Vampire because it enphatised important points about the vampires, like their necesity for blood and how this blood gave them superhuman powers.
Anyways, after some years i have come to think that Vampires are like Reptilians. They are not real but metaphores for kinds of people. Just as Dwarves, Elves, Goblins, and the like. At the same time they are real, and they were unified people once, or they still leave in some isolated place.
Nowadays we live in the empire of man, and this races live inside that empire. But, as vampires are the dark and evil rullers of faraway lands (that don't play ball) today you have evil rulers with red berets in some faraway land (that don't play ball).
I gotta beleive in vamps....my wife is a cold, life sucking b$tch that I haven't be able to get away from for years!And if I could get away...she would suck the life right outta me...
The ancient stories about vampires are all cautionary tales.
Even the newer story of Dracula is a cautionary tale about immigration.
What constitutes a vampire in one ancient culture doesn't make one in another. Some of the cultures have vampires as ghosts that drink blood. Others have them as recently dead from the grave that drink the blood of their own family members. Another has them as a non-human creatures that attack lost travelers or travellers not sleeping indoors.
All of which are tied to cautionary tales to eat properly, stay in after dark, wash often, don't be promiscuous, be honest with people, be on your guard around stangers, etc.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Sadly I don't believe in vampires. I wish I could and I wish they were real but I don't.
Maxila
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You cook a man a meal he eats for a day;
you teach a man to cook he eats for life.
actually the term "Vampire" did come about in the 18th century but it was a english translation of "Vampyre" or "vampir" which again are the romanian and german translations (i have forgotten what they were translated from i'll look it up later) and have been around for a much longer period. of course a human with all of the disorders and phobias mentioned would most certainly have been considered a vampyre i agree and that can still be considered to be a vampyre. i did say that this thread was a disscussion of theories to say vampyres are real or not and that it was not about the more stereotypical draculas. For all we know these disorders are the cause of these myths however it does not prove vampyres to be myth only that certain aspects are myth e'g great strength and or speed. the fact that so many diseases are required also explains how rare vampyres were said to be.
also along the lines of disorders that you mentioned Prophyria is not actaully considered to be a link to the Vampyre myth. only 3 of the 8 types of prophyria cause light sensitivite and it is not believd that suffers crave human haem in our blood. the docter who made the link also started confused between cultural vampyres and the modern stereotypes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire#Porphyria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyria
i do believe that prehaps vampyres that have super speed and strength are exaggertions but that many other aspect of the vampyre are real. it is prehaps that vampyre were real while we could not explain a medical condition and so they had to do things gto stay alive or that they though would help that generated the vampyre myths that has gone on for so long but now that we have treaments for these diesease or disorders that vampyres no longer must attack ppl in the streets and drink blood or stay out of the sun etc prehaps vampyre is just what we call someone with all of the disorders mentioned or more. it doesnt mean however that vampyres are not real but only aspects are not real.
take what you can but not what isn't yours. "fight to the end and never give your enemy the satisfaction of victory"
While it is true that Prophyria isn't considered officially to be part of vampire lore we must go back to my example of 14th century England...a person who is exposed to the sun only to blister, flake and burn...with the stories passed on and with limited knowledge of said disorder(s)...what would be the normal response? i don't believe that it has to be 'official' to be a reason.
Vampire myth, as you said, has been passed down for ages and i still must believe that it was a way for others to explain something in which they had little to no understanding of....we know that Vampires, or at least some form of vampire lore exists in ancient Egyptian culture...but so did Ra who had the head of a falcon and the body of a man, should we believe that Ra existed as well?
I would like to point out that i am fascinated with all forms of myth and lore including Vampires and that i am in no way trying to disuade anybody or frown on their belief system, in fact if you haven't done so already i highly recommend a book called "I, Vampire" by Michael Romkey along with the" Vampire Papers" (avoid the rest of his drivel like the plague though, his writing style changed to a ridiculous adolescent blathering) it is a modern day view of vampires and their culture seen through the eyes of a troubled man....so far I've yet to have a complaint about this recommendation.
I understand your point, but thats a bad example, Ra is a god, even if he existed he was probably never seen directly by other human.
On the other hand, vampires are miths that are suposed to interact with humans.
Also, if Ra doesn't exist, God (the cristian), Alla, jehoba, the great spirit and a lot of other gods from other polytheistic cultures don't exist. Think about it, even if you are an atheist and you are completely sure that these do not exist, there is a lot of people ready to prove you wrong, with evidence, books, ect ( what i mean is, they are soo sure that they spended time an effort and designed a culture arround their beliefs.)
Usually, when I'm completly sure of my opinion, and my contrairs are completly sure of their opinion i come to the conclusion that we are nobody is wrong. We are just looking the picture in diferent places and too close to the canvas.
Anyways, that also remind me of a sensacionalistic documentary about vampires on the Hchanel. They mentioned that other cultures also had legends about shapeshifters and monsters that fed on the soul or blood of humans. This legends and tales came from africa, china and india (and others).
OK, here is what I have heard. Vampires have alot to do with plagues. This is due to the similarities that occur when the Black Death is in town.
Firstly, lots of deaths, vampires are known for causing this. Then lots of deaths mean shallow graves as no-one has the time to bury them all, now what happens is the stomach area is that it contracts as it rots and this causes the body to 'sit up' as if they are rising from the grave. The gums will have receeded to show longer teeth than usual, possibly with blood around them. This rising from the grave brought about the stake through the heart... what better way to make sure someone stays where they are put than actually 'nailing' them to the ground (vampire mythology allows either a wooden or iron stake)
As for if vampires really exist? Well, aside from a few loons who believe they are then the answer is no. There can't be a government conspiracy as the government is frankly useless at keeping secrets - every other week in my country our useless shower leave some top secret CD on the tube.
I understand your point, but thats a bad example, Ra is a god, even if he existed he was probably never seen directly by other human.
On the other hand, vampires are miths that are supposed to interact with humans.
I'm sorry by i must respectfully disagree, my example is valid....Ra was shown in hieroglyphics to 'walk among the people' and to 'bless' the noble families, i fail to see the difference between a God sometimes appearing to the people and a vampire sometimes appearing around people.
We can not and should not take -any- lore at face value...vampire lore has been written,re-written, packaged, sold, displayed, and glorified.
Vampires can tun into mist, vampires can't turn into mist, vampires can tun into bats and fly away, vampires cannot turn into bats and fly away, vampires have super strength/speed, vampires don't have super strength/speed, vampire need to consume mass quantities of blood, vampires only need a goblet full of blood per month, vampires can cross running water, vampires cannot cross running water....where does it end? it won't, books will still be sold....each author giving a different spin on the subject, Hollywood will continue to make movies...each a bit different that the last.
And people will believe what they wish.
Let's go back to Egyptian lore for a minute...Bastet..this goddess was changed over and over to fit certain criteria within Egyptian/Greek culture as it changed..cat's were used in Egyptian society to keep vermin at bay, the result? a goddess depicted with a head of a cat and the body of a woman and 'protector' of Egypt.
Because of certain conditions a goddess is born..this must bring me back to my theory of vampire myth and how it may have came to pass...because of certain, at the time, unexplained medical/psychological disorders a supernatural being is born.
Now, let make it even easier...i'm reminded of what Jack says in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines-
"We're living in the age of cell phone camera's kid, **** up ain't tolerated"
Humans make mistakes, we are flawed, i remember tripping on a bit of pavement and landing on my face while a very attractive woman was walking by...no way to recover from that, an accident sure but still.
Not one single vampire that supposedly 'exist' has -ever- made a mistake...funny because neither has werewolves, not one time in these myths have gone on....never captured, never seen except by these tell-tales and authors with something to sell.
A flawed specimen like a human is 'transformed' into a flawless being, incapable of being detected after all these years? not a single greedy one among the bunch that would take his/her 'powers' and display them to the world for more money and fame, not to mention the hordes of people that would worship his/her every move?
No i simply can't buy that, it goes against the core fabric of the human drive.
I understand your point, but thats a bad example, Ra is a god, even if he existed he was probably never seen directly by other human.
On the other hand, vampires are miths that are supposed to interact with humans.
I'm sorry by i must respectfully disagree, my example is valid....Ra was shown in hieroglyphics to 'walk among the people' and to 'bless' the noble families, i fail to see the difference between a God sometimes appearing to the people and a vampire sometimes appearing around people.
We can not and should not take -any- lore at face value...vampire lore has been written,re-written, packaged, sold, displayed, and glorified.
Vampires can tun into mist, vampires can't turn into mist, vampires can tun into bats and fly away, vampires cannot turn into bats and fly away, vampires have super strength/speed, vampires don't have super strength/speed, vampire need to consume mass quantities of blood, vampires only need a goblet full of blood per month, vampires can cross running water, vampires cannot cross running water....where does it end? it won't, books will still be sold....each author giving a different spin on the subject, Hollywood will continue to make movies...each a bit different that the last.
And people will believe what they wish.
Let's go back to Egyptian lore for a minute...Bastet..this goddess was changed over and over to fit certain criteria within Egyptian/Greek culture as it changed..cat's were used in Egyptian society to keep vermin at bay, the result? a goddess depicted with a head of a cat and the body of a woman and 'protector' of Egypt.
Because of certain conditions a goddess is born..this must bring me back to my theory of vampire myth and how it may have came to pass...because of certain, at the time, unexplained medical/psychological disorders a supernatural being is born.
Now, let make it even easier...i'm reminded of what Jack says in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines-
"We're living in the age of cell phone camera's kid, **** up ain't tolerated"
Humans make mistakes, we are flawed, i remember tripping on a bit of pavement and landing on my face while a very attractive woman was walking by...no way to recover from that, an accident sure but still.
Not one single vampire that supposedly 'exist' has -ever- made a mistake...funny because neither has werewolves, not one time in these myths have gone on....never captured, never seen except by these tell-tales and authors with something to sell.
A flawed specimen like a human is 'transformed' into a flawless being, incapable of being detected after all these years? not a single greedy one among the bunch that would take his/her 'powers' and display them to the world for more money and fame, not to mention the hordes of people that would worship his/her every move?
No i simply can't buy that, it goes against the core fabric of the human drive.
Ra and basket i highly doubt were humans with a medical condition that caused them to have the heads of a falcon or cats? also along the lines of vampires not showing their powers and such and being flawless, they arn't flawless if they are senstive to light or, can't like a human and on the note of going around strutting their stuff u'd think that if your being hunted and burned at the stake or stabbed with stakes they'd prefer for people not to know who they are. no cultural lore sees them as good so they would be of course hunted.
and vampires have of course made mistakes and so have werewolves on that matter as they have been hunted killed found banished etc.
take what you can but not what isn't yours. "fight to the end and never give your enemy the satisfaction of victory"
No, Ra and Bastet were Gods who were created by the Egyptians to give praise to and to explain what they considered to be otherworldly things.
Many ancient cultures worshiped the sun and many gods were born because people wanted to give meaning and symbolism to the sun..just like people have done with werewolves, vampires, ghosts and so on..".If there is no rational explanation to it then it must be supernatural" has been the mindset of many a culture and it exists to this day, but just because they believe it to be so doesn't make it true.
One again, I'm sticking to my guns...so far the argument has been this:
"Vampires might exist because we have ancient documentation that talks about them"....then by that evidence we must also deduce that Ra, dragons, centaur's, Medusa's, leprechauns and the tooth fairy do as well.
Vampires being persecuted is largely irrelevant considering that we have no evidence to support that a single vampire has ever been real let alone burned at the stake, drawn and quartered, stake through the heart or anything...unless your hinting that Bram Stoker was writing non-fiction...to hint that today's society would turn into torch and pitchfork wielders kicking down the front gate is absurd...it would be studied, it's face would be on the cover of every known paper in the world, activists would be showing up in Volkswagen's to protest it's treatment, worshipers would be coming out of the woodwork to 'praise' this creature..and the religious would denounce it as evil.
Vampires are flawless by human standards....most vampires are shown to be highly attractive and desirable to the opposite/same sex or have the ability to charm the opposite/same sex...they can live for thousands of years, are immune to most forms of mortal death, they never get sick, they never get as old as they are when they're embraced, they are usually shown to have incredible strength and agility, the ability to defend themselves...and, of course, most of them are shown to be quite refined and wealthy.
The downside: no exposure to the sun,no reflection.fear of crosses,sleeping in coffins,drinking blood to survive...oh and the possibility of some random person throwing garlic at you or the possibly a stake-wielding maniac, and i might add that all of these downsides differs between cultures while the upsides almost never do.......with the exception of Nosferatu.
Sounds like a small price to pay.
Anyways,you seem to be looking for somebody who agrees with you as opposed to somebody who can debate/counter it which is all i can really offer so I'm going to let others have a crack at it....i've pretty much said everything that needs to be said on the subject.
Us vampires to pwn j00 n00bs!!!!
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What if Paul Revere was like the boy who cried wolf....?
Originally posted by Hazmal
What does he say when people ask what he did? "My mommy was irking me yo - I wanted to keep pwning nubs on my xbox, so I roughed her up with a hardshell. That is just how I roll."