Part of the problem with alot of these gaming companies is the first thing they do when they start development is get al lthe programmers 5000 dollar PCs with all the very best hardware they can get....... Then when teh game is almost finished they wonder why none of us can run their game very well....ALso where does all this money go?? 100 million for tabula rasa? I never know what to beleive I always hear different amounts and usually they are way apart......
Where the money goes? It doesn't go into development only. It goes into perks. Today it maybe different, but in the heyday of the internet, millions were spend on setting up lounges; sports/weight rooms and a host of other non-gaming related things. True, near the grind time before release devs spend 80hr days at the office, but only at crunch time.
Secondly, the other thing that goes on is product managers tend to like to siphon funds for pet projects (developing some other concept/game off the official tab, as a means to get the sketches beyond paper. It's backdoor funding -- what's a couple mil anyway????).
The biggest problem in these dev houses is that they haven't seen a penny they haven't or don't wish to spend. There's little incentive to save money, when they think contracting to Hollywood for not only CGI help; actors for voice overs; sound production, etc.. is the only way to produce a "good" game. It's also why games have taken a visual focus, as that's what Hollywood movie studios are good at. The visual focus makes gameplay a backseat driver, which is why we get these visually stunning games with crappy gameplay and storylines (Hollywood hasn't been very original in scripts for a l-o-n-g time).
Originally posted by Vestas That said, there are some trends people need to be aware of. You can get a VERY good gaming PC for about $600 (see www.Tomshardware.com for low cost gaming rig specs). You can get respectable gaming laptops (laptops are beating desktops in sales) for $1350 from expensive stores like Best Buy, even cheaper if you shop around. And the prices are falling fast.
Yes, but the average person doesn't want to buy a PC from someplace special, shop around, compare specs, custom build and the like. The average person buys an off the shelf PC at Best Buy that he can use for email and pictures and MP3s. He isn't a computerphile. Consoles make it easy on the consumer -- one thing, buy the box, that's it. It appeals to people who play games but are not tech geeks.
Computer gaming is more of a tech geek area, for the most part. There are some titles that have broken out of that -- notably the ones made by Blizzard -- but really, for the most part the average person with the average computer prefers to play consoles because he doesn't want to spend either the money for a gaming rig, or the time to learn about how to put together a gaming rig -- he just doesn't want to spend his time that way. And the number of people like that vastly, vastly outnumbers the number of people who are rig-o-philes.
PC gaming, because of this, will likely not grow beyond its current market share. It's just too geeky, too upgrade intensive, and therefore perceived to be too expensive, by the average person who plays games. Now we might say that's fine, these people have no business polluting our PC games with their noobish ignorance of technology ... but that right there indicates we're becoming more of a niche market.
In terms of MMOs, one of the main reasons WoW has been so successful is precisely because it has always run on Joe Blow's kinda old, non-gaming-optimized PC. They designed it that way deliberately as a business decision, and it worked -- of course it ticked off the core PC enthusiasts, but that wasn't the market Blizzard was going for. I'm no fan of Blizzard and what their product has done to the MMO market, but as a business venture, Blizzard "gets" the marketplace better than anyone else, and that's one of the main reasons why they are winning in the marketplace, imo.
Originally posted by Vestas That said, there are some trends people need to be aware of. You can get a VERY good gaming PC for about $600 (see www.Tomshardware.com for low cost gaming rig specs). You can get respectable gaming laptops (laptops are beating desktops in sales) for $1350 from expensive stores like Best Buy, even cheaper if you shop around. And the prices are falling fast.
Yes, but the average person doesn't want to buy a PC from someplace special, shop around, compare specs, custom build and the like. The average person buys an off the shelf PC at Best Buy that he can use for email and pictures and MP3s. He isn't a computerphile. Consoles make it easy on the consumer -- one thing, buy the box, that's it. It appeals to people who play games but are not tech geeks.
Building computers today grandma can do it. It wasn't like in the day of my first computer -- that it had to be literally soldered together to work.
Now, the hardest thing to do is to install all of the software, as plug n play has automated much of tweaking even needed to build a computer. What used to take hours of time even from a networking engineer (like solving IRC conflicts; setting up a network by hand), now mom can do with an installation disk and a v-e-r-y easy to read brochure, that has like at most 10 steps to complete.
Takes me no more than an hour to build a brand new system (a couple more hours to make a extreme OCing rig with polishing the proc and heatsink, and installing aftermarket coolers for air cooled rigs; and the same for watercoolers -- Peltiers take longer, as there's a lot of sealing to do and for it to cure, let alone figuring the best way to eliminate the heat it can generate as a byproduct).
But for the average gamer, takes nothing more than knowing your needs and going to sites like Newegg and buying the pieces and putting them together. Everything now just snaps into place -- it's a tech job, not a mechanic one.
Originally posted by UNATCOII Building computers today grandma can do it. It wasn't like in the day of my first computer -- that it had to be literally soldered together to work. Now, the hardest thing to do is to install all of the software, as plug n play has automated much of tweaking even needed to build a computer. What used to take hours of time even from a networking engineer (like solving IRC conflicts; setting up a network by hand), now mom can do with an installation disk and a v-e-r-y easy to read brochure, that has like at most 10 steps to complete. Takes me no more than an hour to build a brand new system (a couple more hours to make a extreme OCing rig with polishing the proc and heatsink, and installing aftermarket coolers for air cooled rigs; and the same for watercoolers -- Peltiers take longer, as there's a lot of sealing to do and for it to cure, let alone figuring the best way to eliminate the heat it can generate as a byproduct). But for the average gamer, takes nothing more than knowing your needs and going to sites like Newegg and buying the pieces and putting them together. Everything now just snaps into place -- it's a tech job, not a mechanic one.
It's true that building a pc is not very hard these days but that's still not going to encourage the average person to even consider opening up the case and start messing about with the components. Most people view it as the same a televison or an any other electrical device and they don't realise that it's basically mechano. It still does require a lot of knowledge that has to be researched and is not intuitive. How do you know what kind of graphics card slot your motherboard has for instance? Most people don't even know what a graphics card looks like let alone what different types there are.
I have never purchased a store built pc, when I built my first pc I bought a book on pc assembly and then ordered the components. Doing this is far too much effort for almost everyone who just wants a pc for general use, this is fully understandable.
Console gaming is easy, you just by it and plug it into the TV and don't have to worry about games not running until the next generation of hardware comes out 5 years later. It's no wonder that it is a lot more popular.
It's true that building a pc is not very hard these days but that's still not going to encourage the average person to even consider opening up the case and start messing about with the components. Most people view it as the same a televison or an any other electrical device and they don't realise that it's basically mechano. It still does require a lot of knowledge that has to be researched and is not intuitive. How do you know what kind of graphics card slot your motherboard has for instance? Most people don't even know what a graphics card looks like let alone what different types there are. I have never purchased a store built pc, when I built my first pc I bought a book on pc assembly and then ordered the components. Doing this is far too much effort for almost everyone who just wants a pc for general use, this is fully understandable. Console gaming is easy, you just by it and plug it into the TV and don't have to worry about games not running until the next generation of hardware comes out 5 years later. It's no wonder that it is a lot more popular.
While that is true most people do have a friend (like me) who build it for them... I build the stuff for most of my friends or help the insecure with it including picking hardware.
I rather not have people who don't know what a gfx card in my guild anyways
I do have a PS3 myself, usually it is for playing games like guitarr hero or some fighting game together with a few beer before hitting the Pub.
Real gaming I do on the PC. But it wouldn't really be a big deal to me if the game I played were also possible to play on console.
Yes, but the average person doesn't want to buy a PC from someplace special, shop around, compare specs, custom build and the like. The average person buys an off the shelf PC at Best Buy that he can use for email and pictures and MP3s. He isn't a computerphile. Consoles make it easy on the consumer -- one thing, buy the box, that's it. It appeals to people who play games but are not tech geeks.
But the average person can walk into Best Buy, choose a $500 HP, Gateway or Dell, have the tech in teh store put in a $120 9800GT video card and call it done, all for the price of a playstation 3. They can also spend $800 on a Gateway FX computer that already comes fully loaded and game worthy. Sure, it's a gateway. Computer geeks around the world cringe, but joe consumer, t he one so worried about here, will actually feel good about his little orange machine.
You don't need to be a computer nerd to get a decent game machine for $700-800. Only if you want to get the same machine or better for under $600. However that price floor is dropping rapidly every year. Consoles are becoming PC's and PC's are gravitating to an all-in-one box mentality as well. This only benefits gamers in the long run.
It's true that building a pc is not very hard these days but that's still not going to encourage the average person to even consider opening up the case and start messing about with the components. Most people view it as the same a televison or an any other electrical device and they don't realise that it's basically mechano. It still does require a lot of knowledge that has to be researched and is not intuitive. How do you know what kind of graphics card slot your motherboard has for instance? Most people don't even know what a graphics card looks like let alone what different types there are. I have never purchased a store built pc, when I built my first pc I bought a book on pc assembly and then ordered the components. Doing this is far too much effort for almost everyone who just wants a pc for general use, this is fully understandable. Console gaming is easy, you just by it and plug it into the TV and don't have to worry about games not running until the next generation of hardware comes out 5 years later. It's no wonder that it is a lot more popular.
This was my point precisely.
I think there is a gulf of understanding here between techophiles and everyone else. The only person I know in my personal group of friends and work colleagues (all highly educated folks who *use* computers a whole lot) who has even opened their PC at all is my ex-brother-in-law, who is a professional programmer, and of course builds his own PCs. Everyone else I know just buys it off the shelf or from Dell or something like that. They don't know a motherboard from a power supply -- and, here is the key, they *DO NOT WANT TO KNOW*, either. It's like Blod says, they see it as an appliance like any other. They want to know how to use it, like they know how to use their TV, DVD player, or microwave ... but that doesn't mean they want to invest any time at all in understanding how it works, never mind how to select parts for, and custom build. A console demands none of this -- nothing more than knowing how to hook it up to your TV, the power outlet and the internet.
So while I'll agree that it isn't "hard" if someone is willing to do the research, I can say in my personal experience, not working in a tech field or being surrounded by tech workers, techophiles or PC game enthusiasts, that most people look at their PCs like another appliance. They want to understand just enough to be able to select a useful unit and use it, but that's it. Anything else, the eyes glaze over and so forth because they just don't want to invest the time to learn about it -- it is not important to them. And because of that, I think many are reluctant to spend money to regularly upgrade their PC to play the latest games -- something which is inevitably necessary.
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They can also spend $800 on a Gateway FX computer that already comes fully loaded and game worthy. Sure, it's a gateway. Computer geeks around the world cringe, but joe consumer, t he one so worried about here, will actually feel good about his little orange machine.
Yes those are actually not bad for gaming. But the trouble is, if you buy one say in April 2008, when Age of NextGen releases in November 2009, that rig is probably not going to run it well. So ... you're back to the upgrade situation again. Whereas your PS3 is the same as it ever was and can play a November 2009 title the same way it played an April 2008 title. That's yet another issue.
A gaming PC just doesn't continue to make sense anymore. The only games that are really PC specific anymore are MMO's and building a $1300 computer ever 2 years to just play those one or two games doesn't make fiscal sense.
I've been building pc's forever now and I think that's the one reason why I still build a gaming machine. I just really enjoy the process, but when you're trying to code for 1000's of different hardware/software configs.... it all starts to come together. You will always have an operating system that is not built around gaming holding you back. It's so much easier and not to mention cheaper, for a company to develop a game around a central system like an xbox or a ps3.
The only games that are really PC specific anymore are MMO's
R U SRS?
LOL! Maverick you can't be serious.......
Only MMOs? Did you forget RTS? hell most of the games on PC have awesome Mod communities that keep PC gaming far ahead of console gaming in replay value. these days almost every good console game also shows up on PC (with the exception of madden 09, god i hate EA) .
If it wasn't for Madden my Xbox would have two inches of dust on it atm.
Originally posted by metalhead980 It almost feels like PC game developers are taking advantage of PC gamers since we tend to spend more on computer hardware.
Well, I would say that they cater a LOT to the graphics wh0res (most PC enthusiasts), probably because they are graphics wh0res themselves.
The only games that are really PC specific anymore are MMO's
R U SRS?
LOL! Maverick you can't be serious.......
Only MMOs? Did you forget RTS? hell most of the games on PC have awesome Mod communities that keep PC gaming far ahead of console gaming in replay value. these days almost every good console game also shows up on PC (with the exception of madden 09, god i hate EA) .
If it wasn't for Madden my Xbox would have two inches of dust on it atm.
I'm completely serious.... Most blockbuster PC Games come out for the consoles as well if they didn't launch there first. Your starting to see strategy games port to consoles now too. Trust me it'll be twice as bad with the next gen of consoles.
To the original post by the OP, I personally don't think the next generation MMO will be on a PC. Sure there will be MMO's going out but not the WoW-Killer that everyone hopes for for some unknown reason.
The next generation MMO could possibly be on other Consoles or if technology allows, a virtual reality "console" if you will may dominate the MMO Industry.
Purpose in life is not to gain things, but experience. - Rover64dd
Computer games are bound to fail because piracy is too easy on the computer. Every one who grows up with a computer knows how to pirate anything they want. PC's are just stealing made easy for everyone- you don't need an education with computers to download a game. Consoles, on the otherhand, are much harder to pirate games for. I don't even know how myself
Computer games are bound to fail because piracy is too easy on the computer. Every one who grows up with a computer knows how to pirate anything they want. PC's are just stealing made easy for everyone- you don't need an education with computers to download a game. Consoles, on the otherhand, are much harder to pirate games for. I don't even know how myself
Well there is hamachi for anything without a persistant world. Unless MMO's are able to keep pc gaming going, everything will just shift to the console.
I've been listening to "PC Gaming is dying!" for about 20 years now. Times change, technology changes, but here's the console vs PC facts that have never changed:
It costs about 10 times as much to game on a PC as a console
The above point means that PC gamers take their hobby more seriously that console gamers, because they spent a great deal of $$$ on it
Which means that good PC games tend to have far more depth than good console games, because PC gamers' idea of a good value for the money is totally different than console gamers'
Graphics, sounds, and other technical effects are always better on a good gaming PC, unless it's right at the start of a new console cycle, during which time they'll be about even.
Some game genres unsuitable for a console controller (RTS, anything that requires text input)
... and most importantly, new genres and new styles of gameplay *always* appear on the PC first, then make their way to the console if they're successful, with the notable exception of the Wii (which is why it's doing so well, IMO. Console gamers have never seen true innovation since everything prior was tried and tested in a PC game first)
So, yes, I'm sure we'll see a good console MMO eventually. There's already been some attempts and they'll get better - the market is just bigger. But PC MMOs will still be in a different category as a console MMO will be casual almost by definition, and while that might suck away a lot of WoW's thunder (something will, sooner or later) there's plenty of MMOs out right now that are plugging away just fine and don't cater to casuals at all.
And, whatever the Next Big Gaming Thing is, I'm 100% sure we'll see it on a PC first. It's held true for nearly everything so far, no reason the trend shouldn't continue.
Thats the reasons developers are still making games for the PC. Other than the Sims franchise there hasn't been a single player game come anywhere closer to the sales of console games.
I sure if people could "pirate" subscription based mmorpg's they would do so.
But "next gen mmorpg" refers to more than just graphics. AI, vehicles, interactive enviroments, physics etc. All those features require lots of processing power. Just dont see how developers can bring out a new a mmorpg with much better features than WoW but with the same hardware requirements. As people have pointed out in this thread the majority of people arent willing to upgrade regularly. While lotr and AoC offer better graphics they offer very little in the way of new gameplay. Just making more detailed graphics isn't really a solution. Just because something has a high polygon count doesn't automatically mean its more appealling to the human eye. While Blizzard hasn't put a lot of time into the techincal aspect of WoW's graphics they have put immense time and effort into the artistic and aesthetic implementation of their graphics.
All I see is in the mmorpg market is dozens of games coming out with the same development problems and offering the same crap. Titles rushed out because the backers want a return on their investment. What the mmorpg market doesnt need is more half-arsed junk but joint development. Funcom and Mythic and maybe Sony get together and make a game properly (if they can). But they're still going to face the issue of putting in new features into a game and still have it run on the same hardware as WoW since the only way to get more than 1 million subscribers would be to start taking players away from WoW.
I notice people say that developers need to make gameplay better but thats not easy. To get gameplay right you need a lot of luck or, more importantly, a lot of testing done properly. I just dont see any developers willing to put the massive amount of time or money into developing a game correctly. This is where a joint development could come in. The amount of time and money being put into the testing process currently
Since new mmorpg's are limited by having the game run on older hardware new features are going to have be of a gameplay nature. But that requires massive amounts of testing which no mmorpg developer is willing or able to.
I've been listening to "PC Gaming is dying!" for about 20 years now. Times change, technology changes, but here's the console vs PC facts that have never changed:
It costs about 10 times as much to game on a PC as a console The above point means that PC gamers take their hobby more seriously that console gamers, because they spent a great deal of $$$ on it Which means that good PC games tend to have far more depth than good console games, because PC gamers' idea of a good value for the money is totally different than console gamers' Graphics, sounds, and other technical effects are always better on a good gaming PC, unless it's right at the start of a new console cycle, during which time they'll be about even. Some game genres unsuitable for a console controller (RTS, anything that requires text input) ... and most importantly, new genres and new styles of gameplay *always* appear on the PC first, then make their way to the console if they're successful, with the notable exception of the Wii (which is why it's doing so well, IMO. Console gamers have never seen true innovation since everything prior was tried and tested in a PC game first)
So, yes, I'm sure we'll see a good console MMO eventually. There's already been some attempts and they'll get better - the market is just bigger. But PC MMOs will still be in a different category as a console MMO will be casual almost by definition, and while that might suck away a lot of WoW's thunder (something will, sooner or later) there's plenty of MMOs out right now that are plugging away just fine and don't cater to casuals at all. And, whatever the Next Big Gaming Thing is, I'm 100% sure we'll see it on a PC first. It's held true for nearly everything so far, no reason the trend shouldn't continue.
This is becoming less and less true. Now that consoles are using powerful hardware and use aa/af and hdr etc etc.... not to mention play @ 1920x1080.
So to play Fallout 3 for example and make it look as nice as it does on say a 360, I have to have a monitor that supports 1080p, aa/af on around 4x/aa/8xaf, 3-4 gb's of ram if you're on vista... at least a 9800gt and a powerful dual core.
That price tag adds up real fast, and my 2 year old computer (e6400 c2d, 8800gts 320, 3 gb ram) can't run it @ those settings even at only 1280x1024.... but a two year old 360 can.
This is becoming less and less true. Now that consoles are using powerful hardware and use aa/af and hdr etc etc.... not to mention play @ 1920x1080.
At the increasing costs of having what again?
A computer.
Which means...there's no shortcut to better game performance. Either fork it over on the latest and greatest console, or putting the money in parts to build the latest and greatest computer.
Instead of marketing a console for $99, with $10 games, you now have $500+ consoles with $60 games (which can't be modded like PC games, to extend their life -- which further enforces bad development of throw away games).
Keeps coming back full circle, as technology tends to get more complex, not simplier.
This is becoming less and less true. Now that consoles are using powerful hardware and use aa/af and hdr etc etc.... not to mention play @ 1920x1080.
At the increasing costs of having what again?
A computer.
Which means...there's no shortcut to better game performance. Either fork it over on the latest and greatest console, or putting the money in parts to build the latest and greatest computer.
Instead of marketing a console for $99, with $10 games, you now have $500+ consoles with $60 games (which can't be modded like PC games, to extend their life -- which further enforces bad development of throw away games).
Keeps coming back full circle, as technology tends to get more complex, not simplier.
Gamestop would probably be out of business though if it wasnt for these guys buying 60 dollar games then selling them back at a fraction of the cost a week later.......Then Gamestop can bump the price back up to about the same as the new one and the cycle keeps going.....Thats why there are over 5000 Gamestops alone in the US.......
Originally posted by UNATCOII Which means...there's no shortcut to better game performance. Either fork it over on the latest and greatest console, or putting the money in parts to build the latest and greatest computer.
This is true, but the upgrade cycle is very different. The consoles are running on a 3-4 year cycle, meaning 3-4 years without hardware upgrading. PCs, on the other hand, need upgrading once a year or so to keep up with new games, and can in no realistic way be stretched to 3-4 years without upgrading unless one wants to play older games only. That's the rub. The cost of upgrade the PC is not a big one, but it's a big psychological issue -- a lot of people struggle with the idea of upgrading their hardware to play a new game.
Future of pc gaming seems very bleak, its indeed dying but its fault of pc owners themselfs well many anyway not all.
Again and again i see people even on offcial forums saying in not so many words dl game free, even friend s of mine there the evil force that eventually force gamemakers to develop only for consoles and give pc cheap port's that suck.
MMO'S will eventually all move to consoles, pc is dying platform im affraid:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Comments
Where the money goes? It doesn't go into development only. It goes into perks. Today it maybe different, but in the heyday of the internet, millions were spend on setting up lounges; sports/weight rooms and a host of other non-gaming related things. True, near the grind time before release devs spend 80hr days at the office, but only at crunch time.
Secondly, the other thing that goes on is product managers tend to like to siphon funds for pet projects (developing some other concept/game off the official tab, as a means to get the sketches beyond paper. It's backdoor funding -- what's a couple mil anyway????).
The biggest problem in these dev houses is that they haven't seen a penny they haven't or don't wish to spend. There's little incentive to save money, when they think contracting to Hollywood for not only CGI help; actors for voice overs; sound production, etc.. is the only way to produce a "good" game. It's also why games have taken a visual focus, as that's what Hollywood movie studios are good at. The visual focus makes gameplay a backseat driver, which is why we get these visually stunning games with crappy gameplay and storylines (Hollywood hasn't been very original in scripts for a l-o-n-g time).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Yes, but the average person doesn't want to buy a PC from someplace special, shop around, compare specs, custom build and the like. The average person buys an off the shelf PC at Best Buy that he can use for email and pictures and MP3s. He isn't a computerphile. Consoles make it easy on the consumer -- one thing, buy the box, that's it. It appeals to people who play games but are not tech geeks.
Computer gaming is more of a tech geek area, for the most part. There are some titles that have broken out of that -- notably the ones made by Blizzard -- but really, for the most part the average person with the average computer prefers to play consoles because he doesn't want to spend either the money for a gaming rig, or the time to learn about how to put together a gaming rig -- he just doesn't want to spend his time that way. And the number of people like that vastly, vastly outnumbers the number of people who are rig-o-philes.
PC gaming, because of this, will likely not grow beyond its current market share. It's just too geeky, too upgrade intensive, and therefore perceived to be too expensive, by the average person who plays games. Now we might say that's fine, these people have no business polluting our PC games with their noobish ignorance of technology ... but that right there indicates we're becoming more of a niche market.
In terms of MMOs, one of the main reasons WoW has been so successful is precisely because it has always run on Joe Blow's kinda old, non-gaming-optimized PC. They designed it that way deliberately as a business decision, and it worked -- of course it ticked off the core PC enthusiasts, but that wasn't the market Blizzard was going for. I'm no fan of Blizzard and what their product has done to the MMO market, but as a business venture, Blizzard "gets" the marketplace better than anyone else, and that's one of the main reasons why they are winning in the marketplace, imo.
Building computers today grandma can do it. It wasn't like in the day of my first computer -- that it had to be literally soldered together to work.
Now, the hardest thing to do is to install all of the software, as plug n play has automated much of tweaking even needed to build a computer. What used to take hours of time even from a networking engineer (like solving IRC conflicts; setting up a network by hand), now mom can do with an installation disk and a v-e-r-y easy to read brochure, that has like at most 10 steps to complete.
Takes me no more than an hour to build a brand new system (a couple more hours to make a extreme OCing rig with polishing the proc and heatsink, and installing aftermarket coolers for air cooled rigs; and the same for watercoolers -- Peltiers take longer, as there's a lot of sealing to do and for it to cure, let alone figuring the best way to eliminate the heat it can generate as a byproduct).
But for the average gamer, takes nothing more than knowing your needs and going to sites like Newegg and buying the pieces and putting them together. Everything now just snaps into place -- it's a tech job, not a mechanic one.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
It's true that building a pc is not very hard these days but that's still not going to encourage the average person to even consider opening up the case and start messing about with the components. Most people view it as the same a televison or an any other electrical device and they don't realise that it's basically mechano. It still does require a lot of knowledge that has to be researched and is not intuitive. How do you know what kind of graphics card slot your motherboard has for instance? Most people don't even know what a graphics card looks like let alone what different types there are.
I have never purchased a store built pc, when I built my first pc I bought a book on pc assembly and then ordered the components. Doing this is far too much effort for almost everyone who just wants a pc for general use, this is fully understandable.
Console gaming is easy, you just by it and plug it into the TV and don't have to worry about games not running until the next generation of hardware comes out 5 years later. It's no wonder that it is a lot more popular.
While that is true most people do have a friend (like me) who build it for them... I build the stuff for most of my friends or help the insecure with it including picking hardware.
I rather not have people who don't know what a gfx card in my guild anyways
I do have a PS3 myself, usually it is for playing games like guitarr hero or some fighting game together with a few beer before hitting the Pub.
Real gaming I do on the PC. But it wouldn't really be a big deal to me if the game I played were also possible to play on console.
Yes, but the average person doesn't want to buy a PC from someplace special, shop around, compare specs, custom build and the like. The average person buys an off the shelf PC at Best Buy that he can use for email and pictures and MP3s. He isn't a computerphile. Consoles make it easy on the consumer -- one thing, buy the box, that's it. It appeals to people who play games but are not tech geeks.
But the average person can walk into Best Buy, choose a $500 HP, Gateway or Dell, have the tech in teh store put in a $120 9800GT video card and call it done, all for the price of a playstation 3. They can also spend $800 on a Gateway FX computer that already comes fully loaded and game worthy. Sure, it's a gateway. Computer geeks around the world cringe, but joe consumer, t he one so worried about here, will actually feel good about his little orange machine.
You don't need to be a computer nerd to get a decent game machine for $700-800. Only if you want to get the same machine or better for under $600. However that price floor is dropping rapidly every year. Consoles are becoming PC's and PC's are gravitating to an all-in-one box mentality as well. This only benefits gamers in the long run.
This was my point precisely.
I think there is a gulf of understanding here between techophiles and everyone else. The only person I know in my personal group of friends and work colleagues (all highly educated folks who *use* computers a whole lot) who has even opened their PC at all is my ex-brother-in-law, who is a professional programmer, and of course builds his own PCs. Everyone else I know just buys it off the shelf or from Dell or something like that. They don't know a motherboard from a power supply -- and, here is the key, they *DO NOT WANT TO KNOW*, either. It's like Blod says, they see it as an appliance like any other. They want to know how to use it, like they know how to use their TV, DVD player, or microwave ... but that doesn't mean they want to invest any time at all in understanding how it works, never mind how to select parts for, and custom build. A console demands none of this -- nothing more than knowing how to hook it up to your TV, the power outlet and the internet.
So while I'll agree that it isn't "hard" if someone is willing to do the research, I can say in my personal experience, not working in a tech field or being surrounded by tech workers, techophiles or PC game enthusiasts, that most people look at their PCs like another appliance. They want to understand just enough to be able to select a useful unit and use it, but that's it. Anything else, the eyes glaze over and so forth because they just don't want to invest the time to learn about it -- it is not important to them. And because of that, I think many are reluctant to spend money to regularly upgrade their PC to play the latest games -- something which is inevitably necessary.
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They can also spend $800 on a Gateway FX computer that already comes fully loaded and game worthy. Sure, it's a gateway. Computer geeks around the world cringe, but joe consumer, t he one so worried about here, will actually feel good about his little orange machine.
Yes those are actually not bad for gaming. But the trouble is, if you buy one say in April 2008, when Age of NextGen releases in November 2009, that rig is probably not going to run it well. So ... you're back to the upgrade situation again. Whereas your PS3 is the same as it ever was and can play a November 2009 title the same way it played an April 2008 title. That's yet another issue.
A gaming PC just doesn't continue to make sense anymore. The only games that are really PC specific anymore are MMO's and building a $1300 computer ever 2 years to just play those one or two games doesn't make fiscal sense.
I've been building pc's forever now and I think that's the one reason why I still build a gaming machine. I just really enjoy the process, but when you're trying to code for 1000's of different hardware/software configs.... it all starts to come together. You will always have an operating system that is not built around gaming holding you back. It's so much easier and not to mention cheaper, for a company to develop a game around a central system like an xbox or a ps3.
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It pisses me off so much that I have to upgrade mysystem for games every 2-3 years.
I wish developers could optimize games to run on old systems.
IM about to do what my brother does and stick with a five year old MMO and CS for gaming on PC and buy more games for my Xbox360.
Its a lot cheaper to just buy a new game system every 5-7 years instead of a new computer system that costs three times as much every 2-3.
It almost feels like PC game developers are taking advantage of PC gamers since we tend to spend more on computer hardware.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
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LOL! Maverick you can't be serious.......
Only MMOs? Did you forget RTS? hell most of the games on PC have awesome Mod communities that keep PC gaming far ahead of console gaming in replay value. these days almost every good console game also shows up on PC (with the exception of madden 09, god i hate EA) .
If it wasn't for Madden my Xbox would have two inches of dust on it atm.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Well, I would say that they cater a LOT to the graphics wh0res (most PC enthusiasts), probably because they are graphics wh0res themselves.
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LOL! Maverick you can't be serious.......
Only MMOs? Did you forget RTS? hell most of the games on PC have awesome Mod communities that keep PC gaming far ahead of console gaming in replay value. these days almost every good console game also shows up on PC (with the exception of madden 09, god i hate EA) .
If it wasn't for Madden my Xbox would have two inches of dust on it atm.
I'm completely serious.... Most blockbuster PC Games come out for the consoles as well if they didn't launch there first. Your starting to see strategy games port to consoles now too. Trust me it'll be twice as bad with the next gen of consoles.
To the original post by the OP, I personally don't think the next generation MMO will be on a PC. Sure there will be MMO's going out but not the WoW-Killer that everyone hopes for for some unknown reason.
The next generation MMO could possibly be on other Consoles or if technology allows, a virtual reality "console" if you will may dominate the MMO Industry.
Purpose in life is not to gain things, but experience. - Rover64dd
Computer games are bound to fail because piracy is too easy on the computer. Every one who grows up with a computer knows how to pirate anything they want. PC's are just stealing made easy for everyone- you don't need an education with computers to download a game. Consoles, on the otherhand, are much harder to pirate games for. I don't even know how myself
How do you pirate online games?
Well there is hamachi for anything without a persistant world. Unless MMO's are able to keep pc gaming going, everything will just shift to the console.
I've been listening to "PC Gaming is dying!" for about 20 years now. Times change, technology changes, but here's the console vs PC facts that have never changed:
So, yes, I'm sure we'll see a good console MMO eventually. There's already been some attempts and they'll get better - the market is just bigger. But PC MMOs will still be in a different category as a console MMO will be casual almost by definition, and while that might suck away a lot of WoW's thunder (something will, sooner or later) there's plenty of MMOs out right now that are plugging away just fine and don't cater to casuals at all.
And, whatever the Next Big Gaming Thing is, I'm 100% sure we'll see it on a PC first. It's held true for nearly everything so far, no reason the trend shouldn't continue.
Thats the reasons developers are still making games for the PC. Other than the Sims franchise there hasn't been a single player game come anywhere closer to the sales of console games.
I sure if people could "pirate" subscription based mmorpg's they would do so.
But "next gen mmorpg" refers to more than just graphics. AI, vehicles, interactive enviroments, physics etc. All those features require lots of processing power. Just dont see how developers can bring out a new a mmorpg with much better features than WoW but with the same hardware requirements. As people have pointed out in this thread the majority of people arent willing to upgrade regularly. While lotr and AoC offer better graphics they offer very little in the way of new gameplay. Just making more detailed graphics isn't really a solution. Just because something has a high polygon count doesn't automatically mean its more appealling to the human eye. While Blizzard hasn't put a lot of time into the techincal aspect of WoW's graphics they have put immense time and effort into the artistic and aesthetic implementation of their graphics.
All I see is in the mmorpg market is dozens of games coming out with the same development problems and offering the same crap. Titles rushed out because the backers want a return on their investment. What the mmorpg market doesnt need is more half-arsed junk but joint development. Funcom and Mythic and maybe Sony get together and make a game properly (if they can). But they're still going to face the issue of putting in new features into a game and still have it run on the same hardware as WoW since the only way to get more than 1 million subscribers would be to start taking players away from WoW.
I notice people say that developers need to make gameplay better but thats not easy. To get gameplay right you need a lot of luck or, more importantly, a lot of testing done properly. I just dont see any developers willing to put the massive amount of time or money into developing a game correctly. This is where a joint development could come in. The amount of time and money being put into the testing process currently
Since new mmorpg's are limited by having the game run on older hardware new features are going to have be of a gameplay nature. But that requires massive amounts of testing which no mmorpg developer is willing or able to.
This is becoming less and less true. Now that consoles are using powerful hardware and use aa/af and hdr etc etc.... not to mention play @ 1920x1080.
So to play Fallout 3 for example and make it look as nice as it does on say a 360, I have to have a monitor that supports 1080p, aa/af on around 4x/aa/8xaf, 3-4 gb's of ram if you're on vista... at least a 9800gt and a powerful dual core.
That price tag adds up real fast, and my 2 year old computer (e6400 c2d, 8800gts 320, 3 gb ram) can't run it @ those settings even at only 1280x1024.... but a two year old 360 can.
At the increasing costs of having what again?
A computer.
Which means...there's no shortcut to better game performance. Either fork it over on the latest and greatest console, or putting the money in parts to build the latest and greatest computer.
Instead of marketing a console for $99, with $10 games, you now have $500+ consoles with $60 games (which can't be modded like PC games, to extend their life -- which further enforces bad development of throw away games).
Keeps coming back full circle, as technology tends to get more complex, not simplier.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
At the increasing costs of having what again?
A computer.
Which means...there's no shortcut to better game performance. Either fork it over on the latest and greatest console, or putting the money in parts to build the latest and greatest computer.
Instead of marketing a console for $99, with $10 games, you now have $500+ consoles with $60 games (which can't be modded like PC games, to extend their life -- which further enforces bad development of throw away games).
Keeps coming back full circle, as technology tends to get more complex, not simplier.
Gamestop would probably be out of business though if it wasnt for these guys buying 60 dollar games then selling them back at a fraction of the cost a week later.......Then Gamestop can bump the price back up to about the same as the new one and the cycle keeps going.....Thats why there are over 5000 Gamestops alone in the US.......
This is true, but the upgrade cycle is very different. The consoles are running on a 3-4 year cycle, meaning 3-4 years without hardware upgrading. PCs, on the other hand, need upgrading once a year or so to keep up with new games, and can in no realistic way be stretched to 3-4 years without upgrading unless one wants to play older games only. That's the rub. The cost of upgrade the PC is not a big one, but it's a big psychological issue -- a lot of people struggle with the idea of upgrading their hardware to play a new game.
It still levels out. Each platform requires upgrading.
I'd rather upgrade something that has more use to it than playing games.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Future of pc gaming seems very bleak, its indeed dying but its fault of pc owners themselfs well many anyway not all.
Again and again i see people even on offcial forums saying in not so many words dl game free, even friend s of mine there the evil force that eventually force gamemakers to develop only for consoles and give pc cheap port's that suck.
MMO'S will eventually all move to consoles, pc is dying platform im affraid:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.