why wouldnt they cater to the masses? And a guild can own a keep, not sure why people keep saying you cant. Seems like most of you havent even made it to t4 yet.
Even then though would it be enough for this game? After all whats the point of owning something if
1. You gain nothing from owning it
2. Other people are not affected by you owning it
3. Other players can just wander on by and leave you to it
So a guild plonks their name on a Keep. So what? Who cares? If however the owners of the Keep were able to make the surrounding areas more hostile to players of the enemy faction by increasing the number of roaming npc mobs then it might be a different matter. Ownership of a keep might even allow them to lock down certain areas for questing. There could also be a number of world effecting abilities only useable from with the Keep, such as being able to send an npc patrol out to certain areas once an hour........and the longer the Keep stayed under the players control the more defencible and powerful it becomes.
All of these are really just obvious and basic suggestions. Why couldnt Mythic think of any of this? Oh yeah thats right because it didnt fit into their "Lets copy WoW" game design.
Well Neon,
I've already been informed on another post that they already HAVE keep ownership or 'claiming' in the game. I swear, I never, EVER knew it existed! LOL! Guess most level 20s somethings wouldn't have known that on release without being in beta....
I think it may have been because my server, Tor Achere, never had any population whatsoever, and guilds never even got that far to discussing that. I doubt if most knew it, or if they do, its of so little consequence its not worth talking about. Which is a shame. Keeps should be a very integral part of the game. It seems as though now, they are so trivialized that few guilds would even want to own one.
So, apparantly.. yes, they already have this feature in there. If this is in there, and no one is using it, its a real shame. It's the best idea I could come up with to spice up Warhammer for me personally. Meh..
people are using it. Every day I attack a keep that is owned by a guild. It used to be really expensive to own a keep but they changed that so people are claiming keeps.
LOL.. have you even played WAR? You CAN put your guilds name on a keep when you claim it, and you get significant bonuses for doing so, both in terms of guild xp earned as well as stat and earnings increases (chosen from an extension list and placed on your guilds standard) for those within range of it.
Seriously, how can anyone that actually played not know that?
You've asked before. Yes I played. But at release, this keep "ownership" was not well known to everyone. I don't think many still know about it. You play now, but it's not like you know every facet of Warhammer I don't think.
If this is such a well known thing, then why don't guilds strive to own them? Why don't they own them? I don't think you should act like this is common knowledge to everyone when I'm sure people reading this thread right now who played didn't know you could 'own' keeps in Warhammer.
people are using it. Every day I attack a keep that is owned by a guild. It used to be really expensive to own a keep but they changed that so people are claiming keeps.
You can only speak to your server, as only grunties or anyone else can. Just because you have some guilds using it on your server, does not mean they are used on all or most of the servers, or people there even about it in the first place.
That is like when people say their server is empty, someone replies "Not mine server.. it's poppin". Or they say they have major lag on one and you say "Oh, thats not my server. you must be on a GOA one". Or CTD. "Not my server." Or anything else. YMMV, remember? I don't think on the servers where it's low/low theres a lot of guilds owning things. As someone pointed out, what would be the point of that?
Warhammer is not a consistant fluid game, I think we all know this. What is on or happens on one server is not likely to be the same experience on another, no?
It's best to either A) Reroll (Which you shoulnt have to) or Bitch at Mythic till you get free transfers/server merges. But that so early in a games life spells disaster Example: POTBS.
so far in my 7-day trial, I've played a couple of Order characters (White Lion, ArchMage, Witch Hunter) and a Destruction character (Magus) and so far it's not as bad as its been made out to be on these forums. perhaps it just gets worse at higher levels I guess.
so far in my 7-day trial, I've played a couple of Order characters (White Lion, ArchMage, Witch Hunter) and a Destruction character (Magus) and so far it's not as bad as its been made out to be on these forums. perhaps it just gets worse at higher levels I guess.
the Magus is really cool, imo.
Very cool you are enjoying the game Jmad^^.. your experience so far is what most go through early, par for the course, lots of fun. Around level 20ish people's opinions... shall we say... digress a bit.
Just keep an open mind and enjoy the game!
*EDIT: BTW JMad.. your guild CAN own the keeps in the game^^ I don't want you playing Warhammer without knowing that
LOL.. have you even played WAR? You CAN put your guilds name on a keep when you claim it, and you get significant bonuses for doing so, both in terms of guild xp earned as well as stat and earnings increases (chosen from an extension list and placed on your guilds standard) for those within range of it.
Seriously, how can anyone that actually played not know that?
You've asked before. Yes I played. But at release, this keep "ownership" was not well known to everyone. I don't think many still know about it. You play now, but it's not like you know every facet of Warhammer I don't think.
If this is such a well known thing, then why don't guilds strive to own them? Why don't they own them? I don't think you should act like this is common knowledge to everyone when I'm sure people reading this thread right now who played didn't know you could 'own' keeps in Warhammer.
It's not like its highly touted or highly used.
Popinjay, you are massively getting on my nerves now. If i recollect you kept abusing me for the heinous crime of saying that a lot of people disenchanted with the game, especially at release, didn't really know how to play it properly and aren't aware of the feature it has. After all that hysterical abuse you now go saying "oh lol there's keep ownership, lol!" after authoritatively proclaiming how there isn't any and thats one of the reasons it sucks - this is getting really rich. Really really rich.
Actually I don't know what I'm trying to say here. I'm not trying to discredit you or anything its just I'm wondering why should I post anymore on these boards. There is no fact-checking here and unintentional ignorance gets accepted as a "fact" and "common knowledge" if enough people shout it loud enough. It's a shouting match really, what's the point?
Popinjay, you are massively getting on my nerves now. If i recollect you kept abusing me for the heinous crime of saying that a lot of people disenchanted with the game, especially at release, didn't really know how to play it properly and aren't aware of the feature it has. After all that hysterical abuse you now go saying "oh lol there's keep ownership, lol!" after authoritatively proclaiming how there isn't any and thats one of the reasons it sucks - this is getting really rich. Really really rich. Actually I don't know what I'm trying to say here. I'm not trying to discredit you or anything its just I'm wondering why should I post anymore on these boards. There is no fact-checking here and unintentional ignorance gets accepted as a "fact" and "common knowledge" if enough people shout it loud enough. It's a shouting match really, what's the point?
Sad thing is, this happens to alot of games on these boards, a bunch of people spout non-sense that keeps newbies from buying or even trying these games, when in reality, they just hate the game and the game isn't that bad.
on the down side of this...RVR is a laggy mess for me. I attribute that to me not having a top-of-the-line rig though. my graphics card is only a GeForce 7600.
Manufacturer:
Dell Computer Corporation
Processor:
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.66GHz
Memory:
1790MB RAM
Hard Drive:
60 GB
Video Card:
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS
Monitor:
Dell E770p
Sound Card:
SoundMAX Digital Audio
that's my rig. it USED to be mid-range, but I imagine that it is now within the realm of "shitty computer", right? I run WoW, Guild Wars, LOTRO, Ryzom, and DAoC with no problems though.
They should have grew some balls and allowed players on one side get to a point where they own all the territory. I would love to fight a battle from a last stand position.
Territory ownership would really turn this game around IMO. Being able to put your guild's name on a keep or a section would have been a definite motivator for more open PvP battles, which in turn would have lead to more city assault attempts. I'm not sure their plans for being able to place catapults here/here or moving the door or NPC to a different side in a keep or whatever is enough of a carrot inducement for most.
Ownership gives a sense of pride ultimately and encourages more people to join guilds, which would automatically translate into more organized RvR warbands instead of just roaming mobs of zergers. Gives you a goal to aim for other than just getting gear, which is usually the knock on WoW.
Would have been nice to have ownership of something tangible and concrete there while I was playing, it might have made a difference cause I thought the game was fair and boring, but not bad. Just killing for renown points got kind of aimless.
If a Mythic employer is reading this they need to take note. This is the only thing that would make me come back. I want to be in a situation where I log on and I see order has lost 4 keeps and destruction have us surrounded. In that situation Order would need to group and you would see mass battles to take back choke points like bridges etc. And yes guilds should be able to be recognised for their effort and can fight for medals or standards from the enemy. I enjoyed the game up to level 15 but then I realised you basically level through each tier and leave the last one behind for good. I for one don't mind a non sandbox based game but being pushed through a funnel is something I can not take.
After thought, imagine if guilds can build their own fortifications and war machines on set nodes. This could be recorded and the amount of kills they rack up with the machine is listed on an order website.
I am still very surprised they went down the route they did. It feels like they tried to cater for the mases and really fell short catering for any one group.
What you described in the first paragraph is almost EXACTLY what WAR T4 endgame is like (at least solely on the open RvR level). Again, how can you justify being such an "authorative" critic of WAR you've been playing at for the past 3 months while being COMPLETELY unaware of the MAIN point of the game and the way it works?
Oh wait, you left at rank 15. That's T2. Did you even siege a keep?
As I mentioned in another post we had a 6-alliance vent based RvR event across all pairings in T4 this saturday. There were 8-10 warbands (200ish) players coordinated simultaneously in order to take over zones from overpopulated destros. Warbands were rotating from their open RvR posts - assault, defense and support as well as hard difficulty PQs (thats raid PvE) and pre-made scenario runs to obtain the necessary amount of VPs. Pure "taking keeps" and holding "strategic chokepoints" (bridges in Dragonwake lol) was just ONE of the considerations we had to take into account - at the same time we had to keep both winning instanced scenarios and completing hard (raid-level) PvE Public quests.
At the moment I'd say that the biggest flaw of WAR's RvR endgame is that it is TOO COMPLEX. It requires a massive coordination on the level of a whole server to pull it off. After witnessing and participating in several endgame "events", whether staging or reacting to them, I find statements that endgame is simple or not challenging enough completely laughable, especially coming from people who never played T4 RvR.
Just because you have a certain vision how a server-wide PvP mmo might work it doesn't mean it is the only possible way. It doesnt have to be an open map with keeps strewn around - who takes most wins. This is an extremely simplicistic way of doing it and it is full of horrifying game-design problems - just look at AoC's endgame PvP which naively tried to go that route and hit a brick wall of serious inherent flaws they had to patch over with fixes which made the game much less open ended than it would have been with a more focused system.
Oh and BTW keeps can be claimed by guilds, starting from guild rank 14 and they already may be upgraded according to guild needs - with specific guild tactic sets that are placed on banners. Your guild earns banner tactics (boost to stats, AP regeneration, crit chance etc) and can place their combinations on banners they can carry into battle. When a guild claims a keep those buffs apply to all allies in the keeps vicinity - basically acting as upgrades. More advanced guild, better buffs.
Oh and you CAN take over other guilds banners and shame them by it. Taking guild banners further opens up specific guild unlocks for the glory of your guild.
Popinjay, you are massively getting on my nerves now. If i recollect you kept abusing me for the heinous crime of saying that a lot of people disenchanted with the game, especially at release, didn't really know how to play it properly and aren't aware of the feature it has. After all that hysterical abuse you now go saying "oh lol there's keep ownership, lol!" after authoritatively proclaiming how there isn't any and thats one of the reasons it sucks - this is getting really rich. Really really rich.
Actually I don't know what I'm trying to say here. I'm not trying to discredit you or anything its just I'm wondering why should I post anymore on these boards. There is no fact-checking here and unintentional ignorance gets accepted as a "fact" and "common knowledge" if enough people shout it loud enough. It's a shouting match really, what's the point?
I'm truly sorry Markaraos, I didn't realize my posting upset you so.
Is there a way that you can /blist me so you don't have to see what I type? I'm not sure if there is or not.
But I hope you feel better later, anyways... Merry Christmas to you and Happy New Year!
Popinjay, you are massively getting on my nerves now. If i recollect you kept abusing me for the heinous crime of saying that a lot of people disenchanted with the game, especially at release, didn't really know how to play it properly and aren't aware of the feature it has. After all that hysterical abuse you now go saying "oh lol there's keep ownership, lol!" after authoritatively proclaiming how there isn't any and thats one of the reasons it sucks - this is getting really rich. Really really rich.
Actually I don't know what I'm trying to say here. I'm not trying to discredit you or anything its just I'm wondering why should I post anymore on these boards. There is no fact-checking here and unintentional ignorance gets accepted as a "fact" and "common knowledge" if enough people shout it loud enough. It's a shouting match really, what's the point?
I'm truly sorry Markaraos, I didn't realize my posting upset you so.
Is there a way that you can /blist me so you don't have to see what I type? I'm not sure if there is or not.
But I hope you feel better later, anyways... Merry Christmas to you and Happy New Year!
Lol, who are you and what did you do the real popinjay?! Do you have an evil brother that logs in here while you're asleep?
Anywayz, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you as well.
people are using it. Every day I attack a keep that is owned by a guild. It used to be really expensive to own a keep but they changed that so people are claiming keeps.
You can only speak to your server, as only grunties or anyone else can. Just because you have some guilds using it on your server, does not mean they are used on all or most of the servers, or people there even about it in the first place.
That is like when people say their server is empty, someone replies "Not mine server.. it's poppin". Or they say they have major lag on one and you say "Oh, thats not my server. you must be on a GOA one". Or CTD. "Not my server." Or anything else. YMMV, remember? I don't think on the servers where it's low/low theres a lot of guilds owning things. As someone pointed out, what would be the point of that?
Warhammer is not a consistant fluid game, I think we all know this. What is on or happens on one server is not likely to be the same experience on another, no?
Alright, lets say that I believed you that you really didn't know. Which is cool by the way, I have no problem with people not knowing all the ins and outs of the game, it happens. Its true that keep ownership and how RvR works was public info long before release in the newsletters, on the mythic website, as well as talked about a lot on these boards before and after release... but lets say that someone missed all that for whatever reason, there are legitimate reasons after all.
I would expect someone that really didn't know what was in the game to ask sincerely 'is there anything like this in the game?' instead of declaring with full certainty 'There is none of this in the game! It should get some or its not worth playing!'
The latter I would expect from someone who had an agenda and really wanted to lead people to think the game didn't have these things. We have seen that sort of behavior from people on these boards in the past, from fans of other games, who intentionally wanted to drive away people interested in WAR. I would hope you aren't one of those people, and were simply not familiar with the game, but usually people who genuinely don't know are a little more... humble about declaring the state of things. They are less insistent and more open to finding out that their limited experience is just that.
Even now, you still insist that your view on claiming keeps is the more widespread and correct one, that on the whole it is never used, is useless, etc, even at the same time you declare that everyone whose experience differs from yours 'only applies to their own server'.
Why does your personal experience not 'only apply to your own server'?
Either way, I hope the experience and your blunder humbles you a bit, if you really werent out to spread misinformation, and that you endeavor to confirm the facts before posting. Merry Christmas.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence. Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
Yeah and I am quite picky when it comes to MMORPGs. Havent liked any of them since AC DT. Was surprised that I had so fun in this game. I spend most of my time PvP and get exp at the same time. How awesome isnt that?
Good luck post level 22+ when the level curve surfaces and the grind starts.
Its true that keep ownership and how RvR works was public info long before release in the newsletters, on the mythic website, as well as talked about a lot on these boards before and after release... but lets say that someone missed all that for whatever reason, there are legitimate reasons after all.
Like someone who doesn't follow the pre-hype boards of a game? Or someone who never knew about the Warhammer universe and lore? Or someone who just sees what new game is coming out and waits? Guilty. Got me.
I would expect someone that really didn't know what was in the game to ask sincerely 'is there anything like this in the game?' instead of declaring with full certainty 'There is none of this in the game! It should get some or its not worth playing!
This was not typed and shouted. (I guess you're using hyperbole for effect, but ok). Again on Tor Achere before it closed down, this was not a common discussion over chat. Heck, there WAS hardly any 'common' discussions over chat channels back then. No one knew anything other than beta folks. No one knew other people existed, cause you didn't SEE many and there was so little 'Common' chat to prove they were there at all.
The Warhammer box on my shelf has no mention of guilds "owning" or claiming keeps as a key design feature on its cover. The whopping 37-page Warhammer manual (of which 26 are relavant, the rest is "credits" and crap) that come with the box game doensn't mention guilds "owing" keeps. Maybe I skimmed through that too and missed it, but I sure didn't see it in there either, maybe its on the disk itself lol. But it certainly isn't as readily available information as you make it out to be for someone picking up the game, loading it, reading the manual and playing it. Might be on their sites in a "conspicuous" space right as you log in, but how many people go to the site to read that crap? Maybe later, but in the first month, everything I need to know about the game should be mostly in the manual, and I go with that.
The latter I would expect from someone who had an agenda and really wanted to lead people to think the game didn't have these things. We have seen that sort of behavior from people on these boards in the past, from fans of other games, who intentionally wanted to drive away people interested in WAR. I would hope you aren't one of those people, and were simply not familiar with the game, but usually people who genuinely don't know are a little more... humble about declaring the state of things. They are less insistent and more open to finding out that their limited experience is just that.
What you need to do right now to allay these fears building in your mind as you say, is to go through my posts. Check them and see where I said Warhammer is a shitty game ever. See where I said Warhammer is a terrible game. See where I said Warhammer should be scrapped and microwaved. As much as I post here, you should have plenty of ammo, friend.
You'll never see anything I said about Warhammer other than: Good game (when I was actually playing it around level 10ish or so), Fair game (as I got higher) and boring game (when I couldn't force myself to log on anymore due to the repetition and aimless fighting after level 26ish). If you find where I said any of that other stuff, I'll give you a big, fat cookie.
Until you do, you can go right ahead and believe that I am actually NOT trying to make the game fail, but rather bring a dose of reality and counterbalance to the more "rah rah Mythic" types who are misleading a lot of new folks by saying they play Warhammer "wrong", that's why they don't have fun. It's too complex for them, etc etc. Cow poopy.
My sig says what it says cause its a F A C T, it was said, and by a leading person in the Mythic food chain. It's not a flame; if someone makes that kind of statement, are they optimistic or crazy? Being he's in a "responsible" corporate position, that's a fair discussion to have, but a Warboi will see that as a open flame. Meh... eye of the beholder and all that.
Why does your personal experience not 'only apply to your own server'?
I think I explained this well enough in the last post. Servers are different, even though they have the same content. Some have CTD, some don't. Some have lag, some don't. Some have a lot of people who have played since Day1 of beta, some have mostly noobs. What is common knowledge on a few, isn't necessarily known throughout the Warhammer land.
Either way, I hope the experience and your blunder humbles you a bit, if you really werent out to spread misinformation, and that you endeavor to confirm the facts before posting. Merry Christmas.
Thanks grunties, you as well Don't drink too much egg nog!
grunties, well, would you believe Popinjay once posted this:
well, I know one thing.. I used to let my 10 year old son do all the pvp grinding in WoW. it was that simple to do.. no strategy involved. he just used macros i had made. There also wasnt any reason to pvp in WoW other than for gear to go PvE, that was it. At least in War, there is a purpose in the "endgame". Sieges, city battles, extra dungeons, etc.. that really does make a difference and you wont see a lot of ppl going AFK like in WoW pvp and racking up badges/points while others do the work. (yeah, I was one of those, but I was mainly PvE for gear to raid so I didnt care about WoW pvp) The concept of no real goal for pvping other than "just to kill the other guy" was about as mindless as PvE quests to go "kill X amount of Bolusian Tree Squirrels". It just might be the thing a PvP hater such as myself needs to get interested in it. I will be giving War a shot (and wont be letting my son play it this time) :P
Or this? (I guess I owe some WoW fans an apology now)
I play Wow and War as well, and War did one smart thing. They focus on the PvP. WoW focuses on the PvE. So at best, all War will get from WoW is the much younger kid "YEAHBOI! FUCK IT I OWZYOOSE ALL UBER L33T" population that gave WoW a bad name in the first place probably. Warhammer will not pull WoWs base, which is about raiding and endgame dungeoning. That will stay there with the mandatory raiding times and gear driven play. That base that plays WoW likes it just that way. They wont be coming here, esp with Wrath of the Lich King coming and NEW raiding and gear to worry about. lol There is a segment who play Wow who just want to pvp. Thats it. They dont wanna do anything else. That crowd will get siphoned off WoW and come here. But that crowd will make such a small dent leaving it wont be missed, esp when you can replace it with customers FASTER than will leave WoW. (which they are doing btw) War is a good game so far (7/10) and will not fail. Its not a niche game, as there is a big and growing population of new gamers who want to meet people and kill them. But owning WoW? Only if you like PvP will it "own" WoW.
Man, I was dead wrong on a couple things in the second one, lol! NOW I'm humbled.
Sorry Wow fans, you have my sincere apologies; you were mostly right.
Im loving this game.I dont undertand what people mean thats its get grindy after rank 15 or 22 or 31.This is mass combat verse other players, real people not npcs.I found other mmos grindy.Kill this then that take something here then there or go into the npc dungeon for hours.I think this game has less grind then any other game.I cant wait to get into a wb to siege a keep or defend one.Or if i want i can go killcomputer monsters.Just love the mmo PvP.
player cities yes....???? no...??? or guild cities built around keeps....they got the influence system down....now give us one more reason to Orvr
WAR is not a guild-based game. It is not a guild vs guild game. It is a REALM vs REALM game. Guilds in WAR were originally called "regiments" because that's what they are - permanent military units that work together.
How hard is it to understand? It was never the intention of WAR devs to make guilds the top level of player loyalty (like WoW, EvE or AoC for example). In WAR your whole FACTION is your guild. Therefore - the CAPITAL CITY is your "guild" city. It levels through ranks and there'll be more of them coming up. They'll probably level beyond rank 5 as the game gets mature, unlocking new content etc.
Again - what you're proposing would be great for a GUILD-BASED game. However WAR is not guild-based, it is REALM-BASED. Making guilds too powerful or overly competetive would completely defeat the basic premise of the game - all members of a faction are together in the same boat - basically all your faction mates are your guildies you depend upon.
I've seen those "me-me-me" guilds on our server being formed at the start of the game. Most of those "leet" guys thought they're going to be the "uber" guild better than anyone else - cause they though it is the point of the game like in the games I mentioned. It is not. It is a REALM BASED game. After a "learning period" most guilds are now smaller in size and comprised of people who reall like to play together - as it should be. When numbers are needed then alliances come into play and finally server-wide coordination.
And why is all that? Because, unlike in those other games, a single guild or even a single alliance cannot even think of attempting the endgame alone. For that you need the whole server to work together. All guilds are truly part of a huge super guild that is called the REALM.
Why am I saying this? Because it is quite obvious to me that people calling for keep "ownership" havent yet grasped what WAR is - a REALM based game. In WAR your guild holds a keep for its REALM and not for itself. You can hold that keep - and it'll be a great source of pride and rewards for your guild - but it is your REALM'S keep primarily and your whole realm will help you defend it.
WAR is not a Darkfall or AoC or even WoW in that respect - and I'm thankful for it. Finally a game without guild leetness and consequent nazism and bullying which made me almost leave the mmos altogether.
Hope this helps. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Yeah and I am quite picky when it comes to MMORPGs. Havent liked any of them since AC DT. Was surprised that I had so fun in this game. I spend most of my time PvP and get exp at the same time. How awesome isnt that?
Good luck post level 22+ when the level curve surfaces and the grind starts.
What grind ? It's only a grind if you make it so ( aka , trying to rank up as fast as possible). I rerolled a KoTbS and am having a blast in t3 rvr. I don't "grind" . I come in and go around the zones. 90%+ of the time their is some major pvp happening. I am R28 RR27 and i didn't even see the level fly by , so much fun i am having.
Comments
why wouldnt they cater to the masses? And a guild can own a keep, not sure why people keep saying you cant. Seems like most of you havent even made it to t4 yet.
Well Neon,
I've already been informed on another post that they already HAVE keep ownership or 'claiming' in the game. I swear, I never, EVER knew it existed! LOL! Guess most level 20s somethings wouldn't have known that on release without being in beta....
I think it may have been because my server, Tor Achere, never had any population whatsoever, and guilds never even got that far to discussing that. I doubt if most knew it, or if they do, its of so little consequence its not worth talking about. Which is a shame. Keeps should be a very integral part of the game. It seems as though now, they are so trivialized that few guilds would even want to own one.
So, apparantly.. yes, they already have this feature in there. If this is in there, and no one is using it, its a real shame. It's the best idea I could come up with to spice up Warhammer for me personally. Meh..
"TO MICHAEL!"
people are using it. Every day I attack a keep that is owned by a guild. It used to be really expensive to own a keep but they changed that so people are claiming keeps.
You've asked before. Yes I played. But at release, this keep "ownership" was not well known to everyone. I don't think many still know about it. You play now, but it's not like you know every facet of Warhammer I don't think.
If this is such a well known thing, then why don't guilds strive to own them? Why don't they own them? I don't think you should act like this is common knowledge to everyone when I'm sure people reading this thread right now who played didn't know you could 'own' keeps in Warhammer.
It's not like its highly touted or highly used.
"TO MICHAEL!"
You can only speak to your server, as only grunties or anyone else can. Just because you have some guilds using it on your server, does not mean they are used on all or most of the servers, or people there even about it in the first place.
That is like when people say their server is empty, someone replies "Not mine server.. it's poppin". Or they say they have major lag on one and you say "Oh, thats not my server. you must be on a GOA one". Or CTD. "Not my server." Or anything else. YMMV, remember? I don't think on the servers where it's low/low theres a lot of guilds owning things. As someone pointed out, what would be the point of that?
Warhammer is not a consistant fluid game, I think we all know this. What is on or happens on one server is not likely to be the same experience on another, no?
"TO MICHAEL!"
It's best to either A) Reroll (Which you shoulnt have to) or
Bitch at Mythic till you get free transfers/server merges. But that so early in a games life spells disaster Example: POTBS.
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
so far in my 7-day trial, I've played a couple of Order characters (White Lion, ArchMage, Witch Hunter) and a Destruction character (Magus) and so far it's not as bad as its been made out to be on these forums. perhaps it just gets worse at higher levels I guess.
the Magus is really cool, imo.
Very cool you are enjoying the game Jmad^^.. your experience so far is what most go through early, par for the course, lots of fun. Around level 20ish people's opinions... shall we say... digress a bit.
Just keep an open mind and enjoy the game!
*EDIT: BTW JMad.. your guild CAN own the keeps in the game^^ I don't want you playing Warhammer without knowing that
"TO MICHAEL!"
Yea mid game it starts to feel pretty bad, but at T4, its really great.
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
You've asked before. Yes I played. But at release, this keep "ownership" was not well known to everyone. I don't think many still know about it. You play now, but it's not like you know every facet of Warhammer I don't think.
If this is such a well known thing, then why don't guilds strive to own them? Why don't they own them? I don't think you should act like this is common knowledge to everyone when I'm sure people reading this thread right now who played didn't know you could 'own' keeps in Warhammer.
It's not like its highly touted or highly used.
Popinjay, you are massively getting on my nerves now. If i recollect you kept abusing me for the heinous crime of saying that a lot of people disenchanted with the game, especially at release, didn't really know how to play it properly and aren't aware of the feature it has. After all that hysterical abuse you now go saying "oh lol there's keep ownership, lol!" after authoritatively proclaiming how there isn't any and thats one of the reasons it sucks - this is getting really rich. Really really rich.
Actually I don't know what I'm trying to say here. I'm not trying to discredit you or anything its just I'm wondering why should I post anymore on these boards. There is no fact-checking here and unintentional ignorance gets accepted as a "fact" and "common knowledge" if enough people shout it loud enough. It's a shouting match really, what's the point?
Sad thing is, this happens to alot of games on these boards, a bunch of people spout non-sense that keeps newbies from buying or even trying these games, when in reality, they just hate the game and the game isn't that bad.
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
on the down side of this...RVR is a laggy mess for me. I attribute that to me not having a top-of-the-line rig though. my graphics card is only a GeForce 7600.
that's my rig. it USED to be mid-range, but I imagine that it is now within the realm of "shitty computer", right? I run WoW, Guild Wars, LOTRO, Ryzom, and DAoC with no problems though.
Territory ownership would really turn this game around IMO. Being able to put your guild's name on a keep or a section would have been a definite motivator for more open PvP battles, which in turn would have lead to more city assault attempts. I'm not sure their plans for being able to place catapults here/here or moving the door or NPC to a different side in a keep or whatever is enough of a carrot inducement for most.
Ownership gives a sense of pride ultimately and encourages more people to join guilds, which would automatically translate into more organized RvR warbands instead of just roaming mobs of zergers. Gives you a goal to aim for other than just getting gear, which is usually the knock on WoW.
Would have been nice to have ownership of something tangible and concrete there while I was playing, it might have made a difference cause I thought the game was fair and boring, but not bad. Just killing for renown points got kind of aimless.
If a Mythic employer is reading this they need to take note. This is the only thing that would make me come back. I want to be in a situation where I log on and I see order has lost 4 keeps and destruction have us surrounded. In that situation Order would need to group and you would see mass battles to take back choke points like bridges etc. And yes guilds should be able to be recognised for their effort and can fight for medals or standards from the enemy. I enjoyed the game up to level 15 but then I realised you basically level through each tier and leave the last one behind for good. I for one don't mind a non sandbox based game but being pushed through a funnel is something I can not take.
After thought, imagine if guilds can build their own fortifications and war machines on set nodes. This could be recorded and the amount of kills they rack up with the machine is listed on an order website.
I am still very surprised they went down the route they did. It feels like they tried to cater for the mases and really fell short catering for any one group.
What you described in the first paragraph is almost EXACTLY what WAR T4 endgame is like (at least solely on the open RvR level). Again, how can you justify being such an "authorative" critic of WAR you've been playing at for the past 3 months while being COMPLETELY unaware of the MAIN point of the game and the way it works?
Oh wait, you left at rank 15. That's T2. Did you even siege a keep?
As I mentioned in another post we had a 6-alliance vent based RvR event across all pairings in T4 this saturday. There were 8-10 warbands (200ish) players coordinated simultaneously in order to take over zones from overpopulated destros. Warbands were rotating from their open RvR posts - assault, defense and support as well as hard difficulty PQs (thats raid PvE) and pre-made scenario runs to obtain the necessary amount of VPs. Pure "taking keeps" and holding "strategic chokepoints" (bridges in Dragonwake lol) was just ONE of the considerations we had to take into account - at the same time we had to keep both winning instanced scenarios and completing hard (raid-level) PvE Public quests.
At the moment I'd say that the biggest flaw of WAR's RvR endgame is that it is TOO COMPLEX. It requires a massive coordination on the level of a whole server to pull it off. After witnessing and participating in several endgame "events", whether staging or reacting to them, I find statements that endgame is simple or not challenging enough completely laughable, especially coming from people who never played T4 RvR.
Just because you have a certain vision how a server-wide PvP mmo might work it doesn't mean it is the only possible way. It doesnt have to be an open map with keeps strewn around - who takes most wins. This is an extremely simplicistic way of doing it and it is full of horrifying game-design problems - just look at AoC's endgame PvP which naively tried to go that route and hit a brick wall of serious inherent flaws they had to patch over with fixes which made the game much less open ended than it would have been with a more focused system.
Oh and BTW keeps can be claimed by guilds, starting from guild rank 14 and they already may be upgraded according to guild needs - with specific guild tactic sets that are placed on banners. Your guild earns banner tactics (boost to stats, AP regeneration, crit chance etc) and can place their combinations on banners they can carry into battle. When a guild claims a keep those buffs apply to all allies in the keeps vicinity - basically acting as upgrades. More advanced guild, better buffs.
Oh and you CAN take over other guilds banners and shame them by it. Taking guild banners further opens up specific guild unlocks for the glory of your guild.
I'm truly sorry Markaraos, I didn't realize my posting upset you so.
Is there a way that you can /blist me so you don't have to see what I type? I'm not sure if there is or not.
But I hope you feel better later, anyways... Merry Christmas to you and Happy New Year!
"TO MICHAEL!"
I'm truly sorry Markaraos, I didn't realize my posting upset you so.
Is there a way that you can /blist me so you don't have to see what I type? I'm not sure if there is or not.
But I hope you feel better later, anyways... Merry Christmas to you and Happy New Year!
Lol, who are you and what did you do the real popinjay?! Do you have an evil brother that logs in here while you're asleep?
Anywayz, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you as well.
My problem's with war are very simple. There are only 2 actually.
1- t4 rvr sucks on my top of the line rig due to lag/bad performance
2- pve REQUIRED to complete PVP objectives.
Nuff said back to EVE i went:)
You can only speak to your server, as only grunties or anyone else can. Just because you have some guilds using it on your server, does not mean they are used on all or most of the servers, or people there even about it in the first place.
That is like when people say their server is empty, someone replies "Not mine server.. it's poppin". Or they say they have major lag on one and you say "Oh, thats not my server. you must be on a GOA one". Or CTD. "Not my server." Or anything else. YMMV, remember? I don't think on the servers where it's low/low theres a lot of guilds owning things. As someone pointed out, what would be the point of that?
Warhammer is not a consistant fluid game, I think we all know this. What is on or happens on one server is not likely to be the same experience on another, no?
Alright, lets say that I believed you that you really didn't know. Which is cool by the way, I have no problem with people not knowing all the ins and outs of the game, it happens. Its true that keep ownership and how RvR works was public info long before release in the newsletters, on the mythic website, as well as talked about a lot on these boards before and after release... but lets say that someone missed all that for whatever reason, there are legitimate reasons after all.
I would expect someone that really didn't know what was in the game to ask sincerely 'is there anything like this in the game?' instead of declaring with full certainty 'There is none of this in the game! It should get some or its not worth playing!'
The latter I would expect from someone who had an agenda and really wanted to lead people to think the game didn't have these things. We have seen that sort of behavior from people on these boards in the past, from fans of other games, who intentionally wanted to drive away people interested in WAR. I would hope you aren't one of those people, and were simply not familiar with the game, but usually people who genuinely don't know are a little more... humble about declaring the state of things. They are less insistent and more open to finding out that their limited experience is just that.
Even now, you still insist that your view on claiming keeps is the more widespread and correct one, that on the whole it is never used, is useless, etc, even at the same time you declare that everyone whose experience differs from yours 'only applies to their own server'.
Why does your personal experience not 'only apply to your own server'?
Either way, I hope the experience and your blunder humbles you a bit, if you really werent out to spread misinformation, and that you endeavor to confirm the facts before posting. Merry Christmas.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
Good luck post level 22+ when the level curve surfaces and the grind starts.
10 print "go home"
20 goto 10
Like someone who doesn't follow the pre-hype boards of a game? Or someone who never knew about the Warhammer universe and lore? Or someone who just sees what new game is coming out and waits? Guilty. Got me.
This was not typed and shouted. (I guess you're using hyperbole for effect, but ok). Again on Tor Achere before it closed down, this was not a common discussion over chat. Heck, there WAS hardly any 'common' discussions over chat channels back then. No one knew anything other than beta folks. No one knew other people existed, cause you didn't SEE many and there was so little 'Common' chat to prove they were there at all.
The Warhammer box on my shelf has no mention of guilds "owning" or claiming keeps as a key design feature on its cover. The whopping 37-page Warhammer manual (of which 26 are relavant, the rest is "credits" and crap) that come with the box game doensn't mention guilds "owing" keeps. Maybe I skimmed through that too and missed it, but I sure didn't see it in there either, maybe its on the disk itself lol. But it certainly isn't as readily available information as you make it out to be for someone picking up the game, loading it, reading the manual and playing it. Might be on their sites in a "conspicuous" space right as you log in, but how many people go to the site to read that crap? Maybe later, but in the first month, everything I need to know about the game should be mostly in the manual, and I go with that.
What you need to do right now to allay these fears building in your mind as you say, is to go through my posts. Check them and see where I said Warhammer is a shitty game ever. See where I said Warhammer is a terrible game. See where I said Warhammer should be scrapped and microwaved. As much as I post here, you should have plenty of ammo, friend.
You'll never see anything I said about Warhammer other than: Good game (when I was actually playing it around level 10ish or so), Fair game (as I got higher) and boring game (when I couldn't force myself to log on anymore due to the repetition and aimless fighting after level 26ish). If you find where I said any of that other stuff, I'll give you a big, fat cookie.
Until you do, you can go right ahead and believe that I am actually NOT trying to make the game fail, but rather bring a dose of reality and counterbalance to the more "rah rah Mythic" types who are misleading a lot of new folks by saying they play Warhammer "wrong", that's why they don't have fun. It's too complex for them, etc etc. Cow poopy.
My sig says what it says cause its a F A C T, it was said, and by a leading person in the Mythic food chain. It's not a flame; if someone makes that kind of statement, are they optimistic or crazy? Being he's in a "responsible" corporate position, that's a fair discussion to have, but a Warboi will see that as a open flame. Meh... eye of the beholder and all that.
I think I explained this well enough in the last post. Servers are different, even though they have the same content. Some have CTD, some don't. Some have lag, some don't. Some have a lot of people who have played since Day1 of beta, some have mostly noobs. What is common knowledge on a few, isn't necessarily known throughout the Warhammer land.Thanks grunties, you as well
Don't drink too much egg nog!
"TO MICHAEL!"
grunties, well, would you believe Popinjay once posted this:
Or this? (I guess I owe some WoW fans an apology now)
Man, I was dead wrong on a couple things in the second one, lol! NOW I'm humbled.
Sorry Wow fans, you have my sincere apologies; you were mostly right.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Im loving this game.I dont undertand what people mean thats its get grindy after rank 15 or 22 or 31.This is mass combat verse other players, real people not npcs.I found other mmos grindy.Kill this then that take something here then there or go into the npc dungeon for hours.I think this game has less grind then any other game.I cant wait to get into a wb to siege a keep or defend one.Or if i want i can go killcomputer monsters.Just love the mmo PvP.
Compared to MMO released in 2008 WAR is far much better amongst them.
I do play WAR and I do enjoy it at the moment but I wouldnt call it a game that I would want to play on for years
Just waiting for something better to come along.Hopefully Darkfall wont disappoint
player cities yes....???? no...??? or guild cities built around keeps....they got the influence system down....now give us one more reason to Orvr
WAR is not a guild-based game. It is not a guild vs guild game. It is a REALM vs REALM game. Guilds in WAR were originally called "regiments" because that's what they are - permanent military units that work together.
How hard is it to understand? It was never the intention of WAR devs to make guilds the top level of player loyalty (like WoW, EvE or AoC for example). In WAR your whole FACTION is your guild. Therefore - the CAPITAL CITY is your "guild" city. It levels through ranks and there'll be more of them coming up. They'll probably level beyond rank 5 as the game gets mature, unlocking new content etc.
Again - what you're proposing would be great for a GUILD-BASED game. However WAR is not guild-based, it is REALM-BASED. Making guilds too powerful or overly competetive would completely defeat the basic premise of the game - all members of a faction are together in the same boat - basically all your faction mates are your guildies you depend upon.
I've seen those "me-me-me" guilds on our server being formed at the start of the game. Most of those "leet" guys thought they're going to be the "uber" guild better than anyone else - cause they though it is the point of the game like in the games I mentioned. It is not. It is a REALM BASED game. After a "learning period" most guilds are now smaller in size and comprised of people who reall like to play together - as it should be. When numbers are needed then alliances come into play and finally server-wide coordination.
And why is all that? Because, unlike in those other games, a single guild or even a single alliance cannot even think of attempting the endgame alone. For that you need the whole server to work together. All guilds are truly part of a huge super guild that is called the REALM.
Why am I saying this? Because it is quite obvious to me that people calling for keep "ownership" havent yet grasped what WAR is - a REALM based game. In WAR your guild holds a keep for its REALM and not for itself. You can hold that keep - and it'll be a great source of pride and rewards for your guild - but it is your REALM'S keep primarily and your whole realm will help you defend it.
WAR is not a Darkfall or AoC or even WoW in that respect - and I'm thankful for it. Finally a game without guild leetness and consequent nazism and bullying which made me almost leave the mmos altogether.
Hope this helps. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Good luck post level 22+ when the level curve surfaces and the grind starts.
What grind ? It's only a grind if you make it so ( aka , trying to rank up as fast as possible). I rerolled a KoTbS and am having a blast in t3 rvr. I don't "grind" . I come in and go around the zones. 90%+ of the time their is some major pvp happening. I am R28 RR27 and i didn't even see the level fly by , so much fun i am having.
http://revolutionwar.guildlaunch.com/