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Why is Tabula Rasa closing but AO is still around? and why this is a bad thing.
Dedthom
Member Posts: 541
I am trying to understand why TR is closing down. I understand that the game has issues, a few for some many for others. Even with all the issues TR has it is still, IMHO, a better game then AO but AO has been around for years and TR has been out for what less then what, 2, and AO doesn't seem to be getting better or going away anytime soon.
Is the reason that NCSoft would rather cut their loses now while Funcom made AO when it was relatively cheap to make an MMO so they can afford to run the game now because its paid for?
Also, I feel that despite all of the problems that TR had its closure is going to do more harm than good in the MMO industry. Future devs maybe decide to not invest time and resources into a sci fi MMO feeling that the risk is to great.
Mean while there is really no impetious for Funcom to improve AO because there is no real competition for the niche it fills.
I understand the need to wait for titles like SGW and STO to hit the market, but if we continue to have MMO after MMO based on character rather then ship play, go the way of TR or worse languish in obscurity like some thing that languishes in obscurity then AO maybe the only thing sci fi gamers wanting to go dirtside have to look forward to.
Note: I haven't forgotten about other MMOs like SWG, Planetside or other sci fi titles coming out. TR and AO seem to be the best examples for the point I am trying to make but SWG could be used in place of AO if you like.
""But Coyote, you could learn! You only prefer keyboard and mouse because that's all you've ever known!" You might say right before you hug a rainforest and walk in sandals to your drum circle where you're trying to raise group consciousness of ladybugs or whatever it is you dirty goddamn hippies do when you're not busy smoking pot and smelling bad."
Coyote's Howling: Death of the Computer
Comments
If Funcom wants to survive the Conan fiasco, then they *must* reskin AO with the same glossy gfx as AoC.
Once AO gets an engine/gfx update - it will rank among top notch contenders once again.
I can't really comment on the shape of AO.. but I thought from what I've read on their forums.. that the player base thinks the game has improved... at times.
AO is still running because of the "froob" program. You play for free.. but see ads (unless you upgrade to a subscription). The Ad company pays... Funcom. This is getting put into more online products.
I saw an interview with an Auto Assault Developer. He said considering the cost why would you close an MMO... you can scale back the team to the point that it makes money (like soe does). AA and TR both had people who would play... even if it was a small amount relativley it was enough with a small team and a few servers to make money. The main thing being the cost to develop.. shutting down ensures you have lost money.
NC Soft has done this at least twice.
Then again EA has shut down a few.. Motor City Online, Sims Online (twice) and Earth and Beyond. I didn't list UO2 or UxO as those were canned while still in development.
Maybe I missed some... and other than AC2 has any other MMO shut down?
Hell horizons is still around... altho they changed the name I think *looks left* ya its Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted now apparantly.
Honestly after trying it out this game was crap and everyone knew it. The game needed much much MUCH more development but the devs put it out anyways. After the open beta everyone told them that they needed more development but yet they shiped the game. This isn't a suprise that teh game was shut down.
Sure it had plenty of potential but given that this is a business you cut off something that will require much more moeny to fix than to trash and start again.
Because Richard Garriot has decided to give up his life of gaming and become an astronaught!
How do you figure? I mean AoC doesn't even rank among top notch contenders even with its "good" graphics. I personally think the graphics suck because the graphics engine doesn't allow of seamless zones, but whatever .
There has been a lot written about this in the past few months.
TR is the victim of a lot of different things.
Many of those other games you named peaked and died down like SWG.
The primary difference between AO and TR I would imagine is that AO probably paid for itself a long time ago and makes money (at least enough to pay for itself) as it was made when MMOs where much less expensive to produce and did enjoy a relative amount of succes where TR, at the rate it was going, was losing money monthly (according to the CEO of NCSoft) and cost an enormous amount of money and resources. Had TR at any point made a bit of profit it may have encouraged NC to keep it running but it never did.
How do you figure? I mean AoC doesn't even rank among top notch contenders even with its "good" graphics. I personally think the graphics suck because the graphics engine doesn't allow of seamless zones, but whatever .
You are confusing AO with AoC!
AO is a decent niche game. AoC is a "me too" generic (but glossy) clone MMO.
i'd say its because to improve TR (in order to gain more money out of it) they would need to spend quite a bit of cash. AO has easily broke even already, TR (and most MMO's) would not break even until the 3-4 year mark
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Never played TR but I can attest to Anarchy Online was fun to play, maybe that is the difference. All the fancy graphics in the world can't make up for poor game play.
TR is closing down because it's run by NCSoft. They don't seem to support low-sub model MMOGs. Damned shame, really...if they had an All Access Pass like SOE you'd still have TR and AA around to be able to enjoy from time to time.
How do you figure? I mean AoC doesn't even rank among top notch contenders even with its "good" graphics. I personally think the graphics suck because the graphics engine doesn't allow of seamless zones, but whatever .
You are confusing AO with AoC!
AO is a decent niche game. AoC is a "me too" generic (but glossy) clone MMO.
Clone? What is it a copy of? Please don't say WoW.
TR was fun to play. Its main downfall was lack of character development and content.
Notably these are two things AO has a lot of.
I am a complete Sci-Fi fan and TR was cool and all but AO was great. Still is in my opinion, it is exactly what a sci fi mmo should be i think once they do the revamp it will be even greater.
TR is closing because NCsoft can not figure out a way to run it that would allow it to pay back its development costs, let alone make a profit.
At some point you just have to give up instead of continously throwing money away. My understanding is they'd need a subscriber base of around 300k on average over the life of the game to pay back its development costs.
That just isn't going to ever happen.
Most of you make valid points, but I side with the few that state "why not keep it open but cut back like other companies". Have MMOs become so much more expensive to maintain that this is no longer an option?
Also, what of my point about TR closing being a bad thing? I know we cannot view every branch of reality to see every outcome of an event but do you think that if TR did stay open, even in its current state, the MMO industry would be better or worse off?
I enjoy AO, and play from time to time but find I play when I just can't take fantasy anymore, which is often nowadays. I enjoy the fast paced game play of TR over the game play of AO by a long ways. But AO is much more intricate in crafting and character development.
I would like to put forth this idea. AOs launch was rough, game was laggy and buggy, but in the past the market was much more forgiving.
TR had a bad launch, game was shallow and short, but the current market is much less forgiving.
This may seem obvious to others but just trying to mix the conversation up a bit by blaming the players
""But Coyote, you could learn! You only prefer keyboard and mouse because that's all you've ever known!" You might say right before you hug a rainforest and walk in sandals to your drum circle where you're trying to raise group consciousness of ladybugs or whatever it is you dirty goddamn hippies do when you're not busy smoking pot and smelling bad."
Coyote's Howling: Death of the Computer
Choice...
Waste resources and time on a product that will never pay back what has been spent on it.
Or cut your losses and invest the resources and time in something that will produce money.
No, I don't think running TR in anways is costing more than it brings in, but NCSoft are going to just be looking at the bigger picture. I'm sure if someone put together a good business plan with the right fee they could buy the license to operate TR for NCSoft. But NCSoft themselves would probably just like to close that chapter of their business and write off TR's development costs in one go and get over it.
I'm sorry to tell you this But AO is ten times the game TR is.
Sure the graphix kill any possibility of new players playing AO but it has a hardcore Niche playerbase and a froob community that runs the client with Ads that give failcom cash.
I'm sure the TR community is smaller then the AO community and that AO generates more cash then TR.
Also NCsoft seems quick to pull the trigger on games. If they were smart they would make TR free condense all the servers to one or two, add some dinky social cash shop with XP items and mounts and toss ADs in for extra revenue.
Failcom has already done this with AO and its pretty successful I believe AO has about 30-50k subs that actually PAY a monthly sub and probably another 30K that are froobs.
Also you seem to forget AO actually has stuff to do at level cap, AO has years of Content , TR after three weeks the game is already boring.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
While everything you say is more or less true, my concern is that the closing of TR by NCsoft is going to stunt devs from creating games that are sci fi.
Maybe when (or if) Funcom updates AO it will cause more companies to look at this genre. Of course if one of the sci fi MMOs currently in the shoot hits big then maybe we will get a wider variety and more innovative MMOs of this ilk.
I suppose my biggest concer, from where I am sitting, is that the health of the MMO industry is poor and sci fi MMOs double so.
""But Coyote, you could learn! You only prefer keyboard and mouse because that's all you've ever known!" You might say right before you hug a rainforest and walk in sandals to your drum circle where you're trying to raise group consciousness of ladybugs or whatever it is you dirty goddamn hippies do when you're not busy smoking pot and smelling bad."
Coyote's Howling: Death of the Computer
It is very sad that TR is being killed. It was a very inovative engine and play style. I agree that the should do free to play with ads. I have played AO since day 1 on and off. that game has more content then any other game. The Sci-Fi MMO genre needs to be bigger. They need to look at being more inovative and different from the normal MMO type game. Make it more fast paced and unforgiving (like an FPS. Necron2 had a good system). Add in stuff like corporate wars (like AO was intended but failed) where guilds can own building that can be raided by other guilds. PVP is a must!!! I think a more "Cyberpunk" style would better fit the style of games. Very Dark and patch work cybernetics for those that want them. Magic hindered by Cybernetics. full body conversions paid for buy guilds/Corps. Just a few ideas that would keep the genre from keeling over.
<a href="http://www.enjin.com/"; alt="swtor guild hosting"><img src="http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-swtor/078143aeee5205ec.png"></a>;
Both Wow and AoC are "clones" or "inspired" by Everquest.
Its unethical to bleed money out of subscribers. Better to end it early and compensate the current subscribers, then stop development and continue charging until there aren't enough subscribers to keep the servers online.
AO, and AOC are doing just fine. Many people here confuse "The game failed me" with "The game failed". Neither of the games have failed, and are (as far as we know right now) profitable. TR on the other hand has too much to overcome, and was not, and is not being received very well at all, to the point of closure.
It’s really that simple.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Even if the game is published by the same company, does not mean that it was made and ran by the same people.
Do you think it would be fair if NCSoft says to the guys that run AO that they need to shut their game down because TR isn't doing well?
Also, the other problem is that TR didn't meet expectations, meaning that it was having a low income and they couldn't stabilize their income/outcome, while AO is an old game and has been stable for years from a financial standpoint. The servers cost a lot less probably since it doesn't require powerful machines to host the servers while TR is quite a new game, meaning more maintance and money to keep up the servers.
OP, what is hard to understand? I will break it down for you, with fictional numbers:
Investment: 10mil
Boxes sold: 1mil
Monthly income from subs: 500k
Monthly costs of servers: 300k
Monthly cost of dev. team on 3 people: 150k
So they have 9mil to pay off to break even and they are generating 50k a month. So they will break even in 180 months or 15 years. While these numbers are fictional, why can't you understand some investments are not worth keeping? You suggest we have less servers and less dev team? So we'll say the servers are 150k and the dev team is 1 person at 50k. So now they are making 300k a month, will take 2.5 years to pay off and you believe that is worth it for them. But that assumption assumes you will lose 0 subs from cutting the servers in half and reducing the dev team by 66%, which is terribly wrong.
AO was successful for many years, the servers are already paid for, the investment paid off, and they can maintain the servers with the current subs and advertisements, TR obviously cannot. Get over it, I am positive they did the math.
That would only happen, if AO got the combat system of AoC. New engine plus new combat system, might equal a top notch contender for AO.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!