One of the major shortcummings of dying mmo's though, is that they are dying for a reason. Whether it's flawed game design/mechanics or a poor management/development team that lack skill and talent, the reasons for failing are deeply rooted in the game and are difficult to correct.
SWG might be able to make a temporary comeback with a precu patch, because frankly the game died before its time because they changed core game mechanics and it was unpalatable to most. I think the graphics, although dated, are still adequate though. Perhaps they could also be slightly upgraded.
Other than that, mmo's that crash and burn serve as examples to the rest. If you make a crap game you will fail. This is how it should be.
Well you mentioned pirates of the burning sea and I was in that launch.
The biggest issue is that the people who bought your game at launch were "your shot" at least in my opinion. Has there ever been a serious study on the percentage of people who would even give a game a second change? I mean when you think how few percentage wise even use forums.. We don't really have any feedback from them.
Dying to me tho would mean so few subs that they cannot make a profit.
You can consolidate servers.. you can cut staff. If its possible to reach a "profit point" then you can still run that small MMO for years. People who stick through a bad launch are going to form a very loyal community.
None of them have made a come back that I'm really aware of.. there are quite a few that have been able to make a profit and stick around tho.
Since I saw it mentioned here.
I loved SWG Pre-CU. At best I believe they could definitely run Pre-CU server(s) and make a profit. I am talking strictly that they would make a bit of money and not lose it.
There wouldn't be any return to 350,000 accounts.
Pre-CU used a different system than most MMO's (more UO like than EQ or poorly implemented EQ.. yes to me WoW is just an EQ clone.. my perspective.. might not be yours).
Its .. Star Wars.
When ToR launches it will most likely be the same design type (levels.. uber loot etc) and it will be done much better than the NGE...
So with that paticular game imho.. They will either launch Pre-CU server(s) and milk that.. or as Smedley has finally talk about recently.. they will sunset the game.
So after that long ramble.. again my opinion is:
If you have enough people who like your product to be able to cut down to a "profit making level" you can be around for years.
If you can't even retain that.. I don't think your game really has much of a chance to be revived.
(that's just my opinion.. but so far I think its also historicly accurate with MMO's. maybe that's just me wanting to be right? and I'm wrong lol /shrug )
Well I guess, it wont be possible since to begin with, the game died for a reason. It might often be the game is entirely bad, and the only way to solve this is to overhaul the game completely or develop a new one.
EVE Online is an example of a game having such a poor launch and it coulda soo easily just died by 2004. Instead they made the right fixes people who liked the game wanted and it attracted newer players and they just keep improving the game.
PotBS is beyond fixing though because the core mechanics suck and it would be easier to make a whole new game. SWG could have been revived because the core mechanics were great and like EVE Online it just needed fixing and content added to it. Now however they got rid of their original dev team and it would cost too much money to revive.
It all depends on how good the core game is.
EVE is a different matter. They did not launch a technical disaster like Vanguard or AoC which were essentually unplayable messes.
EVE had a modest launch and it built on that and like you said, the dev team made the right choices and did all the right things to keep it growing. At no point did EVE have the technical issues that kills off 90% of these games. It has the challenge of having a very nitche form of gameplay.
EVE wasn't "revived" from the dead, it grew from humble beginnings. Lineage 2 sorta experienced that for a few years also. L2 grew in the west until about Q1 or Q2 2007 from a handful of about 30k players in 04 to over 115k in 07 before it platued off but that is a completely different situation.
SWG...core mechanics were not "great" they were broken and a mess, it played like a flying bowling ball.
SWG...core mechanics were not "great" they were broken and a mess, it played like a flying bowling ball.
I agree completely. In spite of that, t was still the single best game I've ever played and nothing has come close to it. If they had just fixed the bugs and tweaked the mechanics SWG would be going strong.
SWG...core mechanics were not "great" they were broken and a mess, it played like a flying bowling ball.
I agree completely. In spite of that, t was still the single best game I've ever played and nothing has come close to it. If they had just fixed the bugs and tweaked the mechanics SWG would be going strong.
When I look back at all that SWG stuff, I think about how if they had just delayed for 6 more months at the very least... just 6 lousy, stinking months... they would have avoided ALL the problems SWG had. I mean, if you think about it... those first six months basically ruined the game, and the mistakes made in that short period of time, directly correlated to what the game is today.
However, I will argue that I think SOE would have pulled an NGE no matter what. SWG was the complete opposite of WoW, and well... it was designed with an old school direction at heart.
If someone could make a new, beefed up version of SWG, with all of today's niche markets... it would be superior jazz, man. I've recently looked into Earthrise... here's hoping that game get's it.
i honestly don't think so. I recently read about Pirates of the Burning Sea's new avatar combat revamp. For those who missed that boat, PotBS was a very unique and interesting game, but failed to succeed because it really wasnt finished. The biggest cons were heavy instancing and crappy avatar combat. Now that one is being fixed, the devs are obviously looking for a revival. The game released January and is currently in cardiac arrest. They merged servers and are getting down to just one. Now, pirates isnt the only example of my point. If SWG released a miracle patch theres no way in hell it would come back. What does everyone else thing? Once a game trips is it doomed for good? Every revival attempt I've seen has failed.
Agreed, once a certain damage is done, you never revive a game. Never really seen it happen. There are just way too many MMOs by now, by the way.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Maplestory. People are hitting the max level and realizing the game is worthless, and they're quickly losing players & money. Their "revival" (by this I mean gaining as much money as they were before, since this is all they care about) is by doing ridiculous things like selling experience, and selling in-game money in their cash shop.
ROSE Online. They tried to "save" the game by making it F2P. The economy became completely gang-raped by old abandoned accounts being unlocked with Pre-Evo stuff that was worth ridiculous amounts (now worthless). This ended up causing many of us--including me--to quit. Another fail revival.
Star Wars has probably the largest non-game fan base. Those of us that saw it originally in the 70's, our kids with the new & re-releases, their kids with the cartoons and comic books. If they could fix the game, yes it probably could come back. There's so many that WANT to play a Star Wars game. Whiether or not SW:KoTOR can capitalize on that remains to be seen.
The same could be said for the future Stargate and Star Trek games. They both have fan bases already in place and just like SWG, those people are going to play and forgive SOME of the mistakes. Once it goes over the edge, you'd still have the hardcore fans playing, but the rest would go elsewhere but in the back of their minds would always be 'if they fix it, I will return'.
For PoTBS. It was a niche game from the start and yes I was in one pre-launch because I liked the period/style it was suppose to be. It didn't deliever and I can't see it coming back to life, because it doesn't have a genre fan base and once people move on from it, they'll stay gone.
I dont think so. Take for example MU online. Although it had its share of spotlight last 3 years ago, its currently dying out since the game itself is too old for most gamers today.
I'm currently playing this new Free 2 Play MMORPG calle Atlantica Online. And I am having a blast playing it. hehe. Thanks!
i honestly don't think so. I recently read about Pirates of the Burning Sea's new avatar combat revamp. For those who missed that boat, PotBS was a very unique and interesting game, but failed to succeed because it really wasnt finished. The biggest cons were heavy instancing and crappy avatar combat. Now that one is being fixed, the devs are obviously looking for a revival. The game released January and is currently in cardiac arrest. They merged servers and are getting down to just one. Now, pirates isnt the only example of my point. If SWG released a miracle patch theres no way in hell it would come back. What does everyone else thing? Once a game trips is it doomed for good? Every revival attempt I've seen has failed.
I would have to say it certainly wouldn't be easy but possible, the thing is in general it takes a pretty bad management style to fail as epically as most "failures" do. Companies with well known IPs' to design games around and such are as pointed out some of the biggest offenders therefore it is usually not easy for them to actually figure out how to succeed or they most likely would have done so in the first place. Most of these games have circumstances that certainly allow them to stay afloat much longer than others but wether one of these games can ever fail and at a later time have a much larger population is a tough task and at the least would probably be only successful under new management.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Comments
One of the major shortcummings of dying mmo's though, is that they are dying for a reason. Whether it's flawed game design/mechanics or a poor management/development team that lack skill and talent, the reasons for failing are deeply rooted in the game and are difficult to correct.
SWG might be able to make a temporary comeback with a precu patch, because frankly the game died before its time because they changed core game mechanics and it was unpalatable to most. I think the graphics, although dated, are still adequate though. Perhaps they could also be slightly upgraded.
Other than that, mmo's that crash and burn serve as examples to the rest. If you make a crap game you will fail. This is how it should be.
Well you mentioned pirates of the burning sea and I was in that launch.
The biggest issue is that the people who bought your game at launch were "your shot" at least in my opinion. Has there ever been a serious study on the percentage of people who would even give a game a second change? I mean when you think how few percentage wise even use forums.. We don't really have any feedback from them.
Dying to me tho would mean so few subs that they cannot make a profit.
You can consolidate servers.. you can cut staff. If its possible to reach a "profit point" then you can still run that small MMO for years. People who stick through a bad launch are going to form a very loyal community.
None of them have made a come back that I'm really aware of.. there are quite a few that have been able to make a profit and stick around tho.
Since I saw it mentioned here.
I loved SWG Pre-CU. At best I believe they could definitely run Pre-CU server(s) and make a profit. I am talking strictly that they would make a bit of money and not lose it.
There wouldn't be any return to 350,000 accounts.
Pre-CU used a different system than most MMO's (more UO like than EQ or poorly implemented EQ.. yes to me WoW is just an EQ clone.. my perspective.. might not be yours).
Its .. Star Wars.
When ToR launches it will most likely be the same design type (levels.. uber loot etc) and it will be done much better than the NGE...
So with that paticular game imho.. They will either launch Pre-CU server(s) and milk that.. or as Smedley has finally talk about recently.. they will sunset the game.
So after that long ramble.. again my opinion is:
If you have enough people who like your product to be able to cut down to a "profit making level" you can be around for years.
If you can't even retain that.. I don't think your game really has much of a chance to be revived.
(that's just my opinion.. but so far I think its also historicly accurate with MMO's. maybe that's just me wanting to be right? and I'm wrong lol /shrug )
Well I guess, it wont be possible since to begin with, the game died for a reason. It might often be the game is entirely bad, and the only way to solve this is to overhaul the game completely or develop a new one.
________________________________________________________________________________________
I play Atlantica Online, level 35.
EVE is a different matter. They did not launch a technical disaster like Vanguard or AoC which were essentually unplayable messes.
EVE had a modest launch and it built on that and like you said, the dev team made the right choices and did all the right things to keep it growing. At no point did EVE have the technical issues that kills off 90% of these games. It has the challenge of having a very nitche form of gameplay.
EVE wasn't "revived" from the dead, it grew from humble beginnings. Lineage 2 sorta experienced that for a few years also. L2 grew in the west until about Q1 or Q2 2007 from a handful of about 30k players in 04 to over 115k in 07 before it platued off but that is a completely different situation.
SWG...core mechanics were not "great" they were broken and a mess, it played like a flying bowling ball.
Going free (with a cash shop) could do it. It astounds me how few western developers/publishers consider doing that.
It would work especially well for something like Star Wars, which has a gigantic fanbase.
Of course, if it didn't work, it might drive away the paying customers. But for a game on its last legs, it might be worth a shot.
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
I agree completely. In spite of that, t was still the single best game I've ever played and nothing has come close to it. If they had just fixed the bugs and tweaked the mechanics SWG would be going strong.
I agree completely. In spite of that, t was still the single best game I've ever played and nothing has come close to it. If they had just fixed the bugs and tweaked the mechanics SWG would be going strong.
When I look back at all that SWG stuff, I think about how if they had just delayed for 6 more months at the very least... just 6 lousy, stinking months... they would have avoided ALL the problems SWG had. I mean, if you think about it... those first six months basically ruined the game, and the mistakes made in that short period of time, directly correlated to what the game is today.
However, I will argue that I think SOE would have pulled an NGE no matter what. SWG was the complete opposite of WoW, and well... it was designed with an old school direction at heart.
If someone could make a new, beefed up version of SWG, with all of today's niche markets... it would be superior jazz, man. I've recently looked into Earthrise... here's hoping that game get's it.
Agreed, once a certain damage is done, you never revive a game. Never really seen it happen. There are just way too many MMOs by now, by the way.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Maplestory. People are hitting the max level and realizing the game is worthless, and they're quickly losing players & money. Their "revival" (by this I mean gaining as much money as they were before, since this is all they care about) is by doing ridiculous things like selling experience, and selling in-game money in their cash shop.
ROSE Online. They tried to "save" the game by making it F2P. The economy became completely gang-raped by old abandoned accounts being unlocked with Pre-Evo stuff that was worth ridiculous amounts (now worthless). This ended up causing many of us--including me--to quit. Another fail revival.
It's not working. So, the answer is NO.
Anarchy Online had probably the worst launch a mmo has ever seen
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_Online
the game did improve and is still ongoing 7 years later
EQ2 fan sites
I see it coming down to -
'Does the game have a built in fan base already?'
Star Wars has probably the largest non-game fan base. Those of us that saw it originally in the 70's, our kids with the new & re-releases, their kids with the cartoons and comic books. If they could fix the game, yes it probably could come back. There's so many that WANT to play a Star Wars game. Whiether or not SW:KoTOR can capitalize on that remains to be seen.
The same could be said for the future Stargate and Star Trek games. They both have fan bases already in place and just like SWG, those people are going to play and forgive SOME of the mistakes. Once it goes over the edge, you'd still have the hardcore fans playing, but the rest would go elsewhere but in the back of their minds would always be 'if they fix it, I will return'.
For PoTBS. It was a niche game from the start and yes I was in one pre-launch because I liked the period/style it was suppose to be. It didn't deliever and I can't see it coming back to life, because it doesn't have a genre fan base and once people move on from it, they'll stay gone.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
I dont think so. Take for example MU online. Although it had its share of spotlight last 3 years ago, its currently dying out since the game itself is too old for most gamers today.
I'm currently playing this new Free 2 Play MMORPG calle Atlantica Online. And I am having a blast playing it. hehe. Thanks!
I would have to say it certainly wouldn't be easy but possible, the thing is in general it takes a pretty bad management style to fail as epically as most "failures" do. Companies with well known IPs' to design games around and such are as pointed out some of the biggest offenders therefore it is usually not easy for them to actually figure out how to succeed or they most likely would have done so in the first place. Most of these games have circumstances that certainly allow them to stay afloat much longer than others but wether one of these games can ever fail and at a later time have a much larger population is a tough task and at the least would probably be only successful under new management.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....