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What Eve & other space MMORPGs really need!
cas3369
Member Posts: 12
For a game based entirely on space travel, I was very disapointed in how unrealistic Eve's approach to it was. There are so many examples of how to do it right I was really let down by what I found. I really think that the points below are or would have been very easy to implement without taxing either the system requirements of Eve or the amount of time necessary to program the game.
1. REALISTIC STAR SYSTEMS
Eve currently uses an "EQ Zone" style of star system. You enter through a stargate and there are X amounts of planets and asteroids in fixed positions within the "zone". How hard would it have been to make those planets orbit their star, create (semi-) realistic asteroid belts in planetary orbits and in the Lagrange zones of various worlds, moons orbiting around planets, binary systems with multiple planetary sytems? All of this was executed perfectly in the game "Frontier: Elite II" which came out in the late 90's.
Why is this important? Because for people who like science fiction the science is important too. Space travel is fascinating to simulate in it's mathmatical complexities and cresting from behind a moon to see the starshine of a primary radiating on the surface of a gas giant should be prized for the unique moment that it is as the bodies move in orbit around each other. It can be handled easily by the Eve engine I'm sure.
2. REALISTIC FLIGHT PHYSICS
OK, so we take the stargate wormholes for granted and add the "warp" factor to make interplanetary travel feasable, I'm all for that. But really, why can't we have a pseudo-Newtonian flight model to make flight, combat and docking more exciting and fun? I love to actually pilot a good space sim, especially for docking manuevers. Firing thrusters in various directions and matching spin rates are what make space travel unlike any other experience available. Combat would become sweat inducing and asteroid mining would require constant, deft maniplulation, especially in a dense field.
Again, this was all done right in the game "Jumpgate" and in a few other games from the past. All easy to simulate without major changes to the Eve engine.
3. CREW AND SHIP MANAGEMENT
In Eve, even if you're in a battleship it still feels like you're flying a fighter. If I really am the captain of a multi-megaton spacecraft, where the hell is my crew? I want to hire and fire people, I want to assign duties and watch rotations, manage morale and shore leave, see skills increase and such. In combat, some crew members may die. This should be an integral part of any space simulation. It should be easy enough to create and serve the dual purpose of adding another "money sink" and trade commodity.
Ship management should also be more complex. Instead of just plugging modules in and out of slots it should be a lot more involved. Refitting spacecraft should be a major operation and shipyards should be involved. Switching engines and powerplants should require careful planning and maybe even simulated tests to measure the effectiveness of the new refits. Repairs made in space could be handled by crew in workpods, a risky business with appropriate rewards in skill for the crew involved.
CONCLUSION
Anyway, short of being able to get out of the damn ship and walk around, those would be the best three things to add to Eve that would really make me consider returning to it. I may try it out again when the new update comes out anyway.
Comments
1.
As far as i know this the EVE universe is built on realistic patterns in solar systems. I'm pretty sure it heard this from a Dev. that they have been talking to space scientists about this.
2.
Sounds like you want to play a combination of flight simulator and EVE. I wouldn't like it
3.
This is because the pod let's you have control of alot more in the ship. When the pod got intruduced the frigs whent from a crew of about 50 to 1. This i read in a chronicle, just can't remember the name of it know
http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/archive.asp
in response...
1. The patterns are realistic but static. The planets, moons and asteroids don't actually move. I know it seems like a small thing but that's exactly my point. Why not go the extra step and make the experience more realistic for those of us who really enjoy the science of science fiction? It makes travel more interesting too.
2. It's a matter of taste, I admit. Some people would like it and others wouldn't. But wouldn't you like to try REALLY flying a spaceship (even a simulated one) just once in your life? You'll probably never actually get a chance to do it IRL.
3. Well, the pods are just the game's rational for not using a crew management system. Of course it makes sense but it's not as realistic or as fun IMO. The original Star Fleet Command had a pretty good system whereby you could recruit just a half dozen or so officers and see improvements in your ship's capabilities as they gained experience. Surely it wouldn't be that hard to pull off in a MMORPG.
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The Crew thing would be good,the rest isn't that nesssary.
To be honest I think they have the play balance right.
Too much realism doent make for a good game esp' over a
network.You'd just get pissed off alot.
The way it works makes sense and is playable .This is from someone
that fights in a Frigalte fleet in FU space most nights.
Plus with shiva theres so much extra stuff...its bloody mad.
Its amazing how they got it all to work which shows the robustness
of the system and the forethought of the design.
Roll on shiva..AND ITS FREE too(every other MMORPG would charge for it,RIGHT ON CCP).
Hey! Someone resurrected one of my old whining threads!
To state my case again, I have to say that Eve is a pretty good game, as a sort of financial simulation with a chatroom... and highly stylized RPG combat system... but as a space travel simulator it is woefully inadequate.
What comes to mind when you imagine what it would be like to actually command a starship? Really? What would it involve? Constant maintenance, navigation, planning and logistics are just the beginning. The ships in Eve are just module-holders... they aren't "alive" in the same way that other fictional ships seem to be... they are just oversized "wing-commander" toys that can hold X amount of cargo and mount Y amount of weapons.
Where's the crew? Where's the heart and soul of the machine. I want a navigation officer and a chief engineer. I want status reports, maintenance and watch schedules. I want to plan for an engine overhaul on my next layover at Whateverits IV. I want to hire and fire people, tweak my loadout, carry colorful passengers with mysterious designs and such... I want to feel that MY Uber-class cruiser is different from everyone else's Uber-class cruiser.
And most of all I want to explore a dynamic, living universe full of realistic phenomena, the single most important element of which is a mathmatically sound, functioning series of star systems where the planets orbit the primary and the moons orbit the planets.
Whoever said "that would be too tough and processor-intensive for the game engine to handle" is just full of B.S. in my opinion. Computers crunch numbers like candy and it's not like the heavenly bodies are going to be whipping around each other so fast that the framerate is going to drop because of it.
The Devs were just too damn lazy to do the job right. They knew that the gamers would come for the Pavlovian reward system and be contented enough with the eye candy that they wouldn't have to go to the extra trouble of making it actually work like it should... people would keep paying even if the the occasional elf or orc popped up in a space station because that's the nature of most MMORPG fiends... click - reward - click - reward - click - reward...
Space travel is way too interesting to be subjected to such a bland treatment. If those of us interested in such things make our objection known then perhaps Eve II or whatever new space sim comes along will be a better gaming experience for it. Here's hoping anyway.
Oh, and by the way... an A.U. is an "Astronomical Unit". The distance from the Sun to the Earth, or about 10 light minutes... and no I didn't have to Google that to know it.
1. REALISTIC STAR SYSTEMS
2. REALISTIC FLIGHT PHYSICS
While it would be nice to have every one of the 50,000 or so star systems in EVE actually orbiting a star and their moons orbiting the planets the realistic element of any sci-fi game has to be balanced with playability, hardware resources and technological limitations.
The same goes for flight physics as its not a space flight simulator and supposed to be fun.
3. CREW AND SHIP MANAGEMENT
I cannot imagine the complications this would bring to the game and I do not think that EVE lends itself to this type of gameplay. However a mmorpg with these ideas and elements of a RTS like this would be interesting if anyone pulls it off Im there
(And it would be great to walk around in a station but its not going to happen any time soon if ever)
Well. EVE is not a game based entirely on space travel. Space travel in EVE is a way to get around, to do the real stuff the game is all about. Other than that, going for technical tidbits is always nice, though it has little to do with the enjoyability of a game.
Good of you to mention the latter day Elites. They sucked so bad I'd cry myself to sleep. As games they were nothing compared to the good ol' C64 Elite in playability. No idea how they worked as a physics demo, but I wouldn't pay for one anyways.
I assume you just loved the game Warhead? I liked it too, but I'd never touch EVE if it had anything resembling the controls and ingame physics of Warhead. Why? Because while it was very funny for the time it took to play the game through, it's just too hard in the long run. Granted, if I was looking a spce combat simulation - which EVE is not, and I like it that way - I might be challenging to try and do fight with realistic space physics.
When I'm driving my car, I don't think about inertia, or how much force is applied to my car when I make a turn. Instead, I have a driving wheel and a few pedals (my new car has automated gears, too) . When I turn, the car turns. When I hit the breaks, the car propably stops. I have no idea what goes on between the driving wheel and the road. If this was a rally game, I wouldn't either. Why? Because any of the car games has understood that physics don't sell. Playability, feeling of speed and the illusion of physics is what sells.
That is so very gracious of you. We'll all be waiting at the other end of the red carpet.
No, seriously. The game isn't about to change in its core mechannics any time soon, because it's working as intended (by the designers). I hope you'll find a game that you'll like, though.
I'm waiting for the day they combine a sci-fi MMORPG with a fantasy. By that I mean you can choose to start out on a planet in a fantasy or sci-fi world, do what you would normally do in a fantasy based MMORPG (or change things up and have a sci-fi world) then you could advance to space exploration and colonization. I think THAT would be cool... being able to land on planets for trade or hunting or whatever then jump and go planet to planet. It would such an immense universe.
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-EVE Online !!!
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A lot of this is personal taste in the game mechanics and what I call the "Elite vs Frontier" debate. For those that can't remember Elite was the first trully 3D space exploration, trading/combat game. Frontier was its second rendition. Elite used a control model based on aircraft flight (in essense) and Frontier used a purely newtoninan model. Elite was a massive commercial success, Frontier was too, but certainly not as massive.
I was firmly in the Frontier camp, realistic flight physics, realistic solar systems, the ability to land on planets, and If you sat there long enough you could watch sunrise, moon rise, gas giant rise or whatever the hell was going to rise around the planet you'd landed on. It made for a great feeling of reality, which personally I feel EvE Lacks currently.
The problem with all this realism is that it makes the game more inaccesible. Eve players want to be hoping stargates and blasting each other, they do not want to managing an employment dispute with ther chief engineer. Also the purely newtonian flight model is HARD. Your brain expects things to slow down if you turn the engine off. Coming to terms with the fact that it doesn't is not as easy as it sounds. Couple this with the fact that you have a movement vector, your target has a movement vector, the planet around you has a movement vector, the star system your in has a movement vector and Einstein pops up with Relativity in mind and things, frankly get unmanageable.
Eve isn't realistic, but it is a fun game and I like it for what it is. I'd like a game with more realism sure, but I guess I'm simply waiting for Elite IV to come out.
A Korpz in all things
A Korpz in all things
Give me a crew so I got something to do during space flight.
Crew manegment (trowing out the trubblemakers in to space)