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Observations regarding recruiting people for SWG.
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I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
I have to agree. Some of these posts are most likely from some "disgruntled vet". Its pretty obvious to me. Whats funny, though, is that someone unfamiliar with swg probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have people like Obriak and (more specifically) Badgersmacker spreading misinformation and telling outright lies about the state of swg. Whether its fun or not or if its significantly better than when the nge first came out is debatable. However, theres no way in hell theres more people playing now than when the nge first launched. Badgersmacker has claimed on several occasions that theres more people playing today and Obriak uses the population of his server to "prove" swg has lots of people still playing. Theres way too much evidence to the contrary, like every server but 4 or 5 being light or very light and the upcoming free server transfers.
But yeah, if anyone is misrepresenting themselves while posting here it only serves to make them look bad.
Hmm, how does the fact that 4 or 5 servers are heavy now, disprove that there were less people when the NGE launched, for you have not statistics/server loads to offer on that period. The only "evidence" involved in any of this post is the fact that two people who play the game, and are generally honest and helpful people if you look at their post history on various forums, have put their word against yours, and since they have produced more evidence than you, as they play the game, (and you have motive to not be telling the truth since you like to bash the game, and they are clearly not trying to recruit as they'd much rather you didnt resub) then surely they are right, considering this situation.
Your act is getting extremely old. Why not try another?
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
I have to agree. Some of these posts are most likely from some "disgruntled vet". Its pretty obvious to me. Whats funny, though, is that someone unfamiliar with swg probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have people like Obriak and (more specifically) Badgersmacker spreading misinformation and telling outright lies about the state of swg. Whether its fun or not or if its significantly better than when the nge first came out is debatable. However, theres no way in hell theres more people playing now than when the nge first launched. Badgersmacker has claimed on several occasions that theres more people playing today and Obriak uses the population of his server to "prove" swg has lots of people still playing. Theres way too much evidence to the contrary, like every server but 4 or 5 being light or very light and the upcoming free server transfers.
But yeah, if anyone is misrepresenting themselves while posting here it only serves to make them look bad.
Hmm, how does the fact that 4 or 5 servers are heavy now, disprove that there were less people when the NGE launched, for you have not statistics/server loads to offer on that period. The only "evidence" involved in any of this post is the fact that two people who play the game, and are generally honest and helpful people if you look at their post history on various forums, have put their word against yours, and since they have produced more evidence than you, as they play the game, (and you have motive to not be telling the truth since you like to bash the game, and they are clearly not trying to recruit as they'd much rather you didnt resub) then surely they are right, considering this situation.
While I don't like swg or what happened, I wouldn't consider myself an "angry vet". I've actually moved on to a game that I really like and only like to make the occasional comment on swg. Its not like I've devoted my life to the extinction of swg by writing letters, proposing boycotts or making my own anti-soe/swg website.
Please show a screen shot of those 4 or 5 servers on heavy, because EVERY screen shot I've seen, from the "vets" and "fanbois", shows about 20 servers at light or very light, 3 or 4 at med. and 1 or 2 at heavy. Obriak himself said just a few months ago that theres only 4 or 5 servers that even hit medium. Before the nge, almost every server was either at med. or heavy, with 4 or 5 at light or very light. Players have been crying for years now about dead servers and now theres going to be free server transfers, which is never a good sign for a games population. Also, those 2 aren't always honest about the state of the game and summarily dismiss whats been done to the game in the past as no big deal. I doubt the population is anywhere near what the "angry vets" claim (anywhere from 2-10k) but there certainly isn't over 100k, which Badgersmacker claims is very much possible.
If people enjoy the game as it is, then thats fine. People have different tastes and I'd never tell anyone what they can and can't have fun with. All I ask is people be honest.
Edit: Sorry Saay. I edited out something here. I got you confused with someone else. My apologies.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
How can people still be emotional over a video game? They are meant for leisure, nothing more.
BUT, to sit and deny the presence of an SOE viral marketing campaign is just ridiculous. It's been going on for years now. It's always the same. The posts are the same (with minor changes to fit the circumstance) and the poster always goes away afterwards.
It isn't a big secret.
Nothing SOE does surprises me and I will NEVER do business with them again, but I certainly can't get emotional over the game. We all got burned, don't let it happen again. I pity the people who still play SWG because quite frankly, it's horrible, and if they are willing to pay to play it then there is some seriously questionable lack of logic going on in their thought-process.
Paying to play a beta? LMAO. No thanks...
Tecmo Bowl.
This has been my experience as well but to be completely honest I think the 4 heavy servers is possible to. It's likely a result of people looking ahead to the server transfers and getting their new housing spot picked out and settling in with maybe some harvies as well.
It's one thing to say there are 4 heavy servers (because of the implications of increased subscription numbers) but in fact it may very well be as simple as draining away numbers from the lesser populated servers.
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Many of the person in question's posts contain references to "greedy crafters" not affecting him anymore - as of now, theres no way that ingame, crafters have been shafted, you still need to go to them for almost all weapons, armor, BM equiptment, many looted schems, resources, most furniture etc etc - if this is SOE, why would they put in these statements. You may reply, because they plan to remove/nerf them in the future - but think about it, some of the following updates are addressing crafters and they recently did the huge WS update, why would they shaft them now. Time will disprove it, lets see.
Also, where is the proof of consistent viral marketing on MMORPG forums for SOE games? One thing you can not deny is that the vets on this forum love to have a rant about SWG and insult it, so how is it unfair to blame them. Regardless of what you may think about SOE employees, they do know that angry vets are convinced of a certain NGE stereotype, so why would they come to this forum of all forums, and make posts that clearly display this?
Listen, I am not saying John.galt is an SOE employee trying to market to the vets. He is obviously not what he is trying to present to the community here, I already pointed that out. It is a very bad attempt to portrait something and I think I was the first to point it out. Vet/SOE/whatever he really is it doesn't matter and is in no way related to my observations.
John.galt is NOT an example of what I was describing. He doesn't follow the template of a post trying to market the game to new players. You are right, SOE would be very unlikely to post in the vet refuge. The other SWG and SOE game forums sure, but here in this specific forum no. SOE already markets to everyone here with free vet trials so the effort would be redundant even if they did try.
Why would SOE do it in other forums? Because it is free. Posting on a message forums costs nothing, just like it costs them nothing to send out emails enticing vets to come back. Free is about the budget the game warrents. It would take someone a few hours a month to post virally on a few forums after each game gets some new feature. Card game, expansion, hoth or whatever. Go back a few months and look at some of the "new/returning player" posts, the check list of items I describe, their post history and creation date (new or many moths old). The pattern is there. They post over the top reviews of the game and then disappear.
Many times I have seen SOE fans or defenders try to shift blame for a myriad of problems onto players who are unhappy with SOE. I am not a believer in this type of deflection, but for what I described in my first post in this thread there is no chance at all that these are angry vet trying to do what I described. There is a pretty clear viral marketing effort that springs up every now and then. It also follows a pattern that several divisions of Sony have adopted, so it lends credibility to what I suggest.
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
I have to agree. Some of these posts are most likely from some "disgruntled vet". Its pretty obvious to me. Whats funny, though, is that someone unfamiliar with swg probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have people like Obriak and (more specifically) Badgersmacker spreading misinformation and telling outright lies about the state of swg. Whether its fun or not or if its significantly better than when the nge first came out is debatable. However, theres no way in hell theres more people playing now than when the nge first launched. Badgersmacker has claimed on several occasions that theres more people playing today and Obriak uses the population of his server to "prove" swg has lots of people still playing. Theres way too much evidence to the contrary, like every server but 4 or 5 being light or very light and the upcoming free server transfers.
But yeah, if anyone is misrepresenting themselves while posting here it only serves to make them look bad.
Hmm, how does the fact that 4 or 5 servers are heavy now, disprove that there were less people when the NGE launched, for you have not statistics/server loads to offer on that period. The only "evidence" involved in any of this post is the fact that two people who play the game, and are generally honest and helpful people if you look at their post history on various forums, have put their word against yours, and since they have produced more evidence than you, as they play the game, (and you have motive to not be telling the truth since you like to bash the game, and they are clearly not trying to recruit as they'd much rather you didnt resub) then surely they are right, considering this situation.
I hope that you are not saying that Badgersmacker and Obriak are honest. Both have mislead or just plain lied about game issues. I have logged into several servers over the past 3 years and have seen for myself what the populations look like. The game is not healthy IMHO. Server populations are a far cry from pre-CU levels. Using server population labels (heavy, medium, etc.) is meaningless since there is no way of comparing actual numbers.
This has been my experience as well but to be completely honest I think the 4 heavy servers is possible to. It's likely a result of people looking ahead to the server transfers and getting their new housing spot picked out and settling in with maybe some harvies as well.
It's one thing to say there are 4 heavy servers (because of the implications of increased subscription numbers) but in fact it may very well be as simple as draining away numbers from the lesser populated servers.
perhaps the meaning of heavy has changed?
what is heavy and who says that x number is heavy?
servers might have had a cap of 6000players and 5500 was considered heavy and now they might have caped it at 2000 and 1500 is considered heavy... 5500>1500
is this info public?
ill believe they are REALLY heavy when i see a screeny of a pvp war of more more than 75 players AT ONCE oh and one more thing, can't be restus... (and yes i still have a coule of pictures of a 75+ man rebel versus imperial war with ONLY 2 jedi... and their skills got hurt badly after that war.
This has been my experience as well but to be completely honest I think the 4 heavy servers is possible to. It's likely a result of people looking ahead to the server transfers and getting their new housing spot picked out and settling in with maybe some harvies as well.
It's one thing to say there are 4 heavy servers (because of the implications of increased subscription numbers) but in fact it may very well be as simple as draining away numbers from the lesser populated servers.
perhaps the meaning of heavy has changed?
what is heavy and who says that x number is heavy?
servers might have had a cap of 6000players and 5500 was considered heavy and now they might have caped it at 2000 and 1500 is considered heavy... 5500>1500
is this info public?
ill believe they are REALLY heavy when i see a screeny of a pvp war of more more than 75 players AT ONCE oh and one more thing, can't be restus... (and yes i still have a coule of pictures of a 75+ man rebel versus imperial war with ONLY 2 jedi... and their skills got hurt badly after that war.
/agree
Factor in an obviously altered server population rating system, the idea that people are HAVING to migrate to other servers to enjoy the game and the Xmas break - there is little left to wonder about in terms of the recent so called upswing.
Frankly, for a game that once had atleast 200,000 - 4 so called full servers is kinda pathetic.
Oh and liked the blog, Squal'Zell. Will be linking to it.
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
I have to agree. Some of these posts are most likely from some "disgruntled vet". Its pretty obvious to me. Whats funny, though, is that someone unfamiliar with swg probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have people like Obriak and (more specifically) Badgersmacker spreading misinformation and telling outright lies about the state of swg. Whether its fun or not or if its significantly better than when the nge first came out is debatable. However, theres no way in hell theres more people playing now than when the nge first launched. Badgersmacker has claimed on several occasions that theres more people playing today and Obriak uses the population of his server to "prove" swg has lots of people still playing. Theres way too much evidence to the contrary, like every server but 4 or 5 being light or very light and the upcoming free server transfers.
But yeah, if anyone is misrepresenting themselves while posting here it only serves to make them look bad.
Hmm, how does the fact that 4 or 5 servers are heavy now, disprove that there were less people when the NGE launched, for you have not statistics/server loads to offer on that period. The only "evidence" involved in any of this post is the fact that two people who play the game, and are generally honest and helpful people if you look at their post history on various forums, have put their word against yours, and since they have produced more evidence than you, as they play the game, (and you have motive to not be telling the truth since you like to bash the game, and they are clearly not trying to recruit as they'd much rather you didnt resub) then surely they are right, considering this situation.
While I don't like swg or what happened, I wouldn't consider myself an "angry vet". I've actually moved on to a game that I really like and only like to make the occasional comment on swg. Its not like I've devoted my life to the extinction of swg by writing letters, proposing boycotts or making my own anti-soe/swg website.
Please show a screen shot of those 4 or 5 servers on heavy, because EVERY screen shot I've seen, from the "vets" and "fanbois", shows about 20 servers at light or very light, 3 or 4 at med. and 1 or 2 at heavy. Obriak himself said just a few months ago that theres only 4 or 5 servers that even hit medium. Before the nge, almost every server was either at med. or heavy, with 4 or 5 at light or very light. Players have been crying for years now about dead servers and now theres going to be free server transfers, which is never a good sign for a games population. Also, those 2 aren't always honest about the state of the game and summarily dismiss whats been done to the game in the past as no big deal. I doubt the population is anywhere near what the "angry vets" claim (anywhere from 2-10k) but there certainly isn't over 100k, which Badgersmacker claims is very much possible.
If people enjoy the game as it is, then thats fine. People have different tastes and I'd never tell anyone what they can and can't have fun with. All I ask is people be honest.
Edit: Sorry Saay. I edited out something here. I got you confused with someone else. My apologies.
You are still completely ignoring the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that more people played at the beginning of the NGE - I know very well populations aren't ant any of the Pre-NGE levels, i played before NGE as well and I'm not naive. I just don't understand how you can ask people to be honest when many of you here are simply making unfounded claims, and the most proof some of you guys have is logging onto a dead server and going to MO at 3am and claiming the game is dead. (im talking generally, no personal attack on you)
Daffid: If SOE are regularly viral marketing in such a way, firstly, wheres the evidence? and secondly if they no people can just do the SWG trial, why would they need to do such marketting? anyone who has a mind of their own, will want to try the game for themselves (providing not too much of the false claims from these forums have affected them), and anybody who doesnt like it will not continue to play it - thus viral marketting would be pointless, especially on these forums.
Finally, i cant talk for BadgerSmaker, but Obraik, whom i happen to know quite well, is as honest as it gets; show me one instance where he has lied.
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
I have to agree. Some of these posts are most likely from some "disgruntled vet". Its pretty obvious to me. Whats funny, though, is that someone unfamiliar with swg probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have people like Obriak and (more specifically) Badgersmacker spreading misinformation and telling outright lies about the state of swg. Whether its fun or not or if its significantly better than when the nge first came out is debatable. However, theres no way in hell theres more people playing now than when the nge first launched. Badgersmacker has claimed on several occasions that theres more people playing today and Obriak uses the population of his server to "prove" swg has lots of people still playing. Theres way too much evidence to the contrary, like every server but 4 or 5 being light or very light and the upcoming free server transfers.
But yeah, if anyone is misrepresenting themselves while posting here it only serves to make them look bad.
It's also my impression (can't prove anything of course) that some of the recent (yoo should try NGE cuz' you can be a jeedai) posts may be from a "disgruntled vet." I don't have any inside information btw lol, just thinking out loud, analytically (it's a hobby :P).
What's interesting about these recent posts is that they do read an awful lot like genuine marketting posts. However, they tend to highlight some of the silliness behind the marketting posts as well. In a true marketting post, you'll get the message that paying SOE a hundred bucks for a new speeder really is a "cool new idea." In some of what I'll call "parody posts" the flawed logic of this message is made more plain.
Also, there have been a real influx of "I've just come back to SWG, and I love it" posts on the boards here. They all happen to coincide with a real push on the O-boards for free marketting on behalf of SOE and SWG. Well "happen to coincide" is really giving people the benefit of the doubt lol.
It wouldn't surprise me if a disgruntled vet saw what was going on, felt disgusted (understandably), and decided to fill the boards with posts that are a parody of these and make some of the ridiculous logic behind them more overt.
I view the posts as a possible counter-marketting response. They remind me of those cartoons you see in the paper that make fun of politicians. They usually highlight a politician's silliness by exaggerating it, making it more obvious for people to see. In the paper's, however, there is an overt attempt to also entertain with humour. Also, in the paper, you know that's what's going on in this section (i.e. there's no hidden agenda). My two cents.
I tell you lol, the moderators really deserve a lot of appreciation for trying to keep our debates civil and informative.
Come on Saay, anyone can log into the game at any time during the day and see a mostly deserted server. You act like people need to go out of their way to falsify their findings just to make the game look dead. The current players have been begging for server mergers for years. Smedly acknowledged populations are not healthy at the player meeting and promised to fast track server mergers (which never happened, because he is so far out of touch with his customers). The CEO admitted a long time ago there are problems. The devs have been working beyond their capacity to "solve" the problem with LFG tools and other plans that can't remedy lack of players. The only people that talk about healthy servers and populations are the overly devoted SWG fans. Everyone elese including SOE admits the problem.
As for the viral marketing, it is free, it is effective. People do come to this site to see opinions and ratings on games. That is the entire purpose of this site, just look at all the game adverts on this page. People who don't know about the trial can't download it can they? Games that get positive discussion entice people to try it. Games that have negative buzz tend to get people that move to another game. Marketing is an effective way to get people to try a product. It is astounding that you try to ignore that.
I simply pointed out my observations. Never did I say I had proof, but you can put my theory to the test if you cared to. I am fairly confident that you would find what I have noticed is a trend and can be seen in a number of posts. It is pretty obvious who benefits from this type of viral marketing and who has a company wide history of doing this for their products. I might be wrong, but I doubt it.
Come on Saay, anyone can log into the game at any time during the day and see a mostly deserted server. You act like people need to go out of their way to falsify their findings just to make the game look dead. The current players have been begging for server mergers for years. Smedly acknowledged populations are not healthy at the player meeting and promised to fast track server mergers (which never happened, because he is so far out of touch with his customers). The CEO admitted a long time ago there are problems. The devs have been working beyond their capacity to "solve" the problem with LFG tools and other plans that can't remedy lack of players. The only people that talk about healthy servers and populations are the overly devoted SWG fans. Everyone elese including SOE admits the problem.
As for the viral marketing, it is free, it is effective. People do come to this site to see opinions and ratings on games. That is the entire purpose of this site, just look at all the game adverts on this page. People who don't know about the trial can't download it can they? Games that get positive discussion entice people to try it. Games that have negative buzz tend to get people that move to another game. Marketing is an effective way to get people to try a product. It is astounding that you try to ignore that.
I simply pointed out my observations. Never did I say I had proof, but you can put my theory to the test if you cared to. I am fairly confident that you would find what I have noticed is a trend and can be seen in a number of posts. It is pretty obvious who benefits from this type of viral marketing and who has a company wide history of doing this for their products. I might be wrong, but I doubt it.
P.S. I agree with your observations Daffid, and you have a lot of evidence to support your conclusions.
Regarding Obraik. I agree that he has a real honesty to his posts. I assume that overtly lying is against his values. That's one thing I appreciate about the guy.
At the same time, he and others have a hard time acknowledging when SOE is doing something that is harmful to the game and it's players. These actions tend to be rationalized or obscured. For example, suggesting that AT ST's might be available outside the Hoth Instance isn't a lie. At the same time, Smed saying, "how would you like to see guild controlled star destroyers" wasn't exactly a lie either. It was, however, misleading by suggestion.
Also, people will highlight the need for product promotionals in the U.S. to have a "no purchase necessary" clause in them to avoid allegations of running an illegal game of chance. Obraik's response has never been dishonest. He simply says that this isn't true in New Zealand. O.k., this may be an honest response; however, at the same time it obsures the issue: SOE is in the U.S. and should therefore follow U.S. guidelines.
I remember when Obraik used to focus on simply sharing accurate information about enjoyable aspects of the game. I always enjoyed the updates. I'd often point people to his posts, and get my own questions answered as well. It doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to go back to that. Frankly, Smed and the gang seem to use a lot of suggestion, misdirection and obfuscation. I don't see them as positive role-models for successful marketting. Obraik, tbh, can do a lot better when he wants to.
[snip]perhaps the meaning of heavy has changed?
what is heavy and who says that x number is heavy?
servers might have had a cap of 6000players and 5500 was considered heavy and now they might have caped it at 2000 and 1500 is considered heavy... 5500>1500
is this info public?
ill believe they are REALLY heavy when i see a screeny of a pvp war of more more than 75 players AT ONCE oh and one more thing, can't be restus... (and yes i still have a coule of pictures of a 75+ man rebel versus imperial war with ONLY 2 jedi... and their skills got hurt badly after that war.
/agree
Factor in an obviously altered server population rating system, the idea that people are HAVING to migrate to other servers to enjoy the game and the Xmas break - there is little left to wonder about in terms of the recent so called upswing.
Frankly, for a game that once had atleast 200,000 - 4 so called full servers is kinda pathetic.
Oh and liked the blog, Squal'Zell. Will be linking to it.
cool thanks glad you enjoyed it (one is coming soon about the holidays), there is a weekly comic too (updated Mondays)
but yeah i have yet to see any screenies or any kind of indication that there is a upswing of people playing swg. in fact i actually see more proof of the contrary. server migration is all the indication i need. and SW TOR launch (or for that matter, beta) will be a decisive moment in SWG history, and in either case SWG will stay as it is or get worse.
Come on Saay, anyone can log into the game at any time during the day and see a mostly deserted server. You act like people need to go out of their way to falsify their findings just to make the game look dead. The current players have been begging for server mergers for years. Smedly acknowledged populations are not healthy at the player meeting and promised to fast track server mergers (which never happened, because he is so far out of touch with his customers). The CEO admitted a long time ago there are problems. The devs have been working beyond their capacity to "solve" the problem with LFG tools and other plans that can't remedy lack of players. The only people that talk about healthy servers and populations are the overly devoted SWG fans. Everyone elese including SOE admits the problem.
As for the viral marketing, it is free, it is effective. People do come to this site to see opinions and ratings on games. That is the entire purpose of this site, just look at all the game adverts on this page. People who don't know about the trial can't download it can they? Games that get positive discussion entice people to try it. Games that have negative buzz tend to get people that move to another game. Marketing is an effective way to get people to try a product. It is astounding that you try to ignore that.
I simply pointed out my observations. Never did I say I had proof, but you can put my theory to the test if you cared to. I am fairly confident that you would find what I have noticed is a trend and can be seen in a number of posts. It is pretty obvious who benefits from this type of viral marketing and who has a company wide history of doing this for their products. I might be wrong, but I doubt it.
Thats the thing, you completely ignore everything ive said and just claim that all the servers are dead. Yes, quite a few of them are, im saying alls dandy and fine, as you say, we've needed server merges for along time. And also, thats the thing, many of the vets, and im not neccessarily pointing at you, do feel the need to falsify/twist their findings - so much so that any post (the normal ones, not the John.Galt ones) that actually in some way praises the game a little, is suddenly claimed to be viral marketing - thats how desperate and pathetic it gets (you know the sort of person who can find things wrong with everything just because they are unhappy, through fault of their own usually). Most people do NOT come to this site to get opinions on SWG, you get a few every now and then at most - John.Galt's marketing is hardly effective anyway. only those who know very little of MMOs do, and they soon learn not to come here. Not many who know anything about the MMO world/community will come here to research SWG. Of course marketing is an effective way to get people to try a product, its one of the only ways, viral marketing, not so much, if its done in they way you're claiming they are doing it.
You cannot call it viral marketing without proof that SOE have undertaken this - its just a sad way to try to avoid the fact that some people actually like the game.
"Dead Servers" is a relative statement. When compared to what the servers had pre-NGE/CU all servers could be classified as dead. However...for the NGE period specific there are 3-5 servers that have a much larger population compared to the others which can be classified regardless of era as "Dead".
Do some people like the game? Sure...but the game is only marketed to former players where by far the majority has made up its mind not to return via paying.
Again if the game was good then much more people would be playing it and there wouldn't be a need for server merges/free CTS.
Many people say "What do you expect from a 5 year old title"...WoW is not far behind SWG in age and is certainly going strong. That is a huge indictment of SOE management considering the IP in question.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
A) I never said all the servers are dead. I know I can log into a majority of the servers and find those to be dead. I'm willing to bet I could even log into servers that are reported to be healthy and find cast stretches of deserted game world. Player cities, points of interest and just about anywhere I chose to go. Outside of maybe a few player organized events and maybe a few starports I would find the game deserted and I am not talking about in comparison to SWG of years ago, but how the game is today.
C) Sure there are people who like the game and post their opinions, kudos to them. I never said EVERYONE of those posts fits my findings. Stop painting everything as an absolute.
D) I can post my SUSPISCIONS about SOE virally marketing the game all I like. Nothing I have said is beyond a reasonal expectation of this company. I am not avoiding the fact that people like this game. Some people collect postage stamps, but I don't make up stories about the post office to deny their pleasures just like I did not here. What I have said is very believable and has some past company history to corroborate that Sony does indeed engage in this very sort of activity. If you choose not to agree with that fine, but don't play internet psychologist to discredit me.
HALF the servers ARE dead. As evidenced by the fact that SOE offers free transfers from them to the other half.
IMHO, the mistake is to not declare 20 of the 25 dead and to move everyone to 5 that could be made viable.
Which is logical considering the game is down 85-90% from it's peak.
If somehow things recover (ha ha ha) then re open servers.
More than half of them are dead. I'd say three servers have a somewhat decent population. The rest are just different degrees of empty.
I agree - well more than half the servers are dead and $OE needed to include more servers on the 'transfer from' list. In fact, there are many posts from players that had hoped that their server would be on the 'transfer from' server list and are now very disapppointed. I believe there will be another free CTS when it is evident that there are still dead servers after this first go-around. $OE will still collect transfer fees until then.
A) I never said all the servers are dead. I know I can log into a majority of the servers and find those to be dead. I'm willing to bet I could even log into servers that are reported to be healthy and find cast stretches of deserted game world. Player cities, points of interest and just about anywhere I chose to go. Outside of maybe a few player organized events and maybe a few starports I would find the game deserted and I am not talking about in comparison to SWG of years ago, but how the game is today.
C) Sure there are people who like the game and post their opinions, kudos to them. I never said EVERYONE of those posts fits my findings. Stop painting everything as an absolute.
D) I can post my SUSPISCIONS about SOE virally marketing the game all I like. Nothing I have said is beyond a reasonal expectation of this company. I am not avoiding the fact that people like this game. Some people collect postage stamps, but I don't make up stories about the post office to deny their pleasures just like I did not here. What I have said is very believable and has some past company history to corroborate that Sony does indeed engage in this very sort of activity. If you choose not to agree with that fine, but don't play internet psychologist to discredit me.
I think you are very wrong to assume that even the populated servers are dead - they are well populated, thats the point I and others are trying to get across. But then again, its just your word against mine, so not much to be said.
I also agree there have been many good things, but various bad decisions have been made - im one of those who hates the TCG to be quite honest.
I did state that i wasnt neccessarily pointing at you, but you know there are many vets that do do what ive said, however im certainly not painting everyone black or white, there are in betweeens, like the various vets who i disagree with, but respect, then the ones i dont...
Well, there isnt any evidence to suspect SOE has undertaken viral marketing, but it doesnt matter anyway now, since i was right, it was confirmed that Wildcat is behind these posts. (checkout mmofringe for proof)
"Dead Servers" is a relative statement. When compared to what the servers had pre-NGE/CU all servers could be classified as dead. However...for the NGE period specific there are 3-5 servers that have a much larger population compared to the others which can be classified regardless of era as "Dead".
Do some people like the game? Sure...but the game is only marketed to former players where by far the majority has made up its mind not to return via paying.
Again if the game was good then much more people would be playing it and there wouldn't be a need for server merges/free CTS.
Many people say "What do you expect from a 5 year old title"...WoW is not far behind SWG in age and is certainly going strong. That is a huge indictment of SOE management considering the IP in question.
While dead servers can be used as relative, as almost anything can be construed as relative, I would propose to use it simply in terms of whether there is considerable life/activity about on the server in various places, things going on etc, and if we take this definition quite a few servers are far from dead.
The game is also marketed to brand new players, many of whom ive seen join and stick with the game, though not all of them do. It is fair to say that if the game wa good more people would be playing it, but i dont believe its that simple - while it is true to an extent, people can be put off playing it even if they may like it because of the fact they hate SOE, or because their friends have hang ups about SOE etc etc and that hasnt helped the game.
About Free CTS, as many have stated, this has been called for and needed since the beggining of the NGE, so no change here, it doesnt really mean anything other than that they should have done it a while ago. And WoW - WoW is an example of a sad fact about the world...most people are stupid. Its the reason why good hardcore games like Darkfall etc will never have as large populations, it doesnt mean they are not better. Plus WoW can pretty much be played on any thing that can be dubbed a computer, due to its graphics, which is clever il admit, but not something I would want have to put up with.
"Dead Servers" is a relative statement. When compared to what the servers had pre-NGE/CU all servers could be classified as dead. However...for the NGE period specific there are 3-5 servers that have a much larger population compared to the others which can be classified regardless of era as "Dead".
Do some people like the game? Sure...but the game is only marketed to former players where by far the majority has made up its mind not to return via paying.
Again if the game was good then much more people would be playing it and there wouldn't be a need for server merges/free CTS.
Many people say "What do you expect from a 5 year old title"...WoW is not far behind SWG in age and is certainly going strong. That is a huge indictment of SOE management considering the IP in question.
While dead servers can be used as relative, as almost anything can be construed as relative, I would propose to use it simply in terms of whether there is considerable life/activity about on the server in various places, things going on etc, and if we take this definition quite a few servers are far from dead.
The game is also marketed to brand new players, many of whom ive seen join and stick with the game, though not all of them do. It is fair to say that if the game wa good more people would be playing it, but i dont believe its that simple - while it is true to an extent, people can be put off playing it even if they may like it because of the fact they hate SOE, or because their friends have hang ups about SOE etc etc and that hasnt helped the game.
About Free CTS, as many have stated, this has been called for and needed since the beggining of the NGE, so no change here, it doesnt really mean anything other than that they should have done it a while ago. And WoW - WoW is an example of a sad fact about the world...most people are stupid. Its the reason why good hardcore games like Darkfall etc will never have as large populations, it doesnt mean they are not better. Plus WoW can pretty much be played on any thing that can be dubbed a computer, due to its graphics, which is clever il admit, but not something I would want have to put up with.
The ONLY marketing SOE does in regards to new players with the SWG is via their website...nothing else. All other marketing is done via former players. I would submit that more marketing is done here with the vets recommending that new players utilize the trial than what SOE does at all.
The bottom line compared to what the servers were before the NGE/CU the servers are dead. That is a fact. It is interesting that you admit that CTS/server merges havee been needed since the NGE.
As for WoW...like it or not...their product sells and sells well. Pre-CU had between 200-300k subs. Of course WoW blew that away but it is the exception in the industry which has been proven. I 'm sure SOE wishes they had that 200-300k back now.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
I have to agree. Some of these posts are most likely from some "disgruntled vet". Its pretty obvious to me. Whats funny, though, is that someone unfamiliar with swg probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have people like Obriak and (more specifically) Badgersmacker spreading misinformation and telling outright lies about the state of swg. Whether its fun or not or if its significantly better than when the nge first came out is debatable. However, theres no way in hell theres more people playing now than when the nge first launched. Badgersmacker has claimed on several occasions that theres more people playing today and Obriak uses the population of his server to "prove" swg has lots of people still playing. Theres way too much evidence to the contrary, like every server but 4 or 5 being light or very light and the upcoming free server transfers.
But yeah, if anyone is misrepresenting themselves while posting here it only serves to make them look bad.
Hmm, how does the fact that 4 or 5 servers are heavy now, disprove that there were less people when the NGE launched, for you have not statistics/server loads to offer on that period. The only "evidence" involved in any of this post is the fact that two people who play the game, and are generally honest and helpful people if you look at their post history on various forums, have put their word against yours, and since they have produced more evidence than you, as they play the game, (and you have motive to not be telling the truth since you like to bash the game, and they are clearly not trying to recruit as they'd much rather you didnt resub) then surely they are right, considering this situation.
While I don't like swg or what happened, I wouldn't consider myself an "angry vet". I've actually moved on to a game that I really like and only like to make the occasional comment on swg. Its not like I've devoted my life to the extinction of swg by writing letters, proposing boycotts or making my own anti-soe/swg website.
Please show a screen shot of those 4 or 5 servers on heavy, because EVERY screen shot I've seen, from the "vets" and "fanbois", shows about 20 servers at light or very light, 3 or 4 at med. and 1 or 2 at heavy. Obriak himself said just a few months ago that theres only 4 or 5 servers that even hit medium. Before the nge, almost every server was either at med. or heavy, with 4 or 5 at light or very light. Players have been crying for years now about dead servers and now theres going to be free server transfers, which is never a good sign for a games population. Also, those 2 aren't always honest about the state of the game and summarily dismiss whats been done to the game in the past as no big deal. I doubt the population is anywhere near what the "angry vets" claim (anywhere from 2-10k) but there certainly isn't over 100k, which Badgersmacker claims is very much possible.
If people enjoy the game as it is, then thats fine. People have different tastes and I'd never tell anyone what they can and can't have fun with. All I ask is people be honest.
Edit: Sorry Saay. I edited out something here. I got you confused with someone else. My apologies.
You are still completely ignoring the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that more people played at the beginning of the NGE - I know very well populations aren't ant any of the Pre-NGE levels, i played before NGE as well and I'm not naive. I just don't understand how you can ask people to be honest when many of you here are simply making unfounded claims, and the most proof some of you guys have is logging onto a dead server and going to MO at 3am and claiming the game is dead. (im talking generally, no personal attack on you)
Daffid: If SOE are regularly viral marketing in such a way, firstly, wheres the evidence? and secondly if they no people can just do the SWG trial, why would they need to do such marketting? anyone who has a mind of their own, will want to try the game for themselves (providing not too much of the false claims from these forums have affected them), and anybody who doesnt like it will not continue to play it - thus viral marketting would be pointless, especially on these forums.
Finally, i cant talk for BadgerSmaker, but Obraik, whom i happen to know quite well, is as honest as it gets; show me one instance where he has lied.
While no one has any diect evidence that SOE is using paid viral marketers to plague these boards, SONY has been caught doing similar things in the past:
www.itwire.com/content/view/8138/53/
We know the people we are dealing with are not above using underhanded tactics to market their products, and have created false internet personas to do so.
It is quite likely they would do so here. Looking at the repetitious nature of certain posts around here and the completely tenacious and irrational love these folks seem to have for SOE, it makes sense to assume it is highly likely that these folks, or at least some of them, are SONY created fakes.
Had SONY not been already known for doing these things, I could see being incredulous. In that this is not the case, one has to regard all pro-SONY internet chat as being suspect. That's all SONY's fault. They wrecked their own credibility forever. That's done.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
I have to agree. Some of these posts are most likely from some "disgruntled vet". Its pretty obvious to me. Whats funny, though, is that someone unfamiliar with swg probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have people like Obriak and (more specifically) Badgersmacker spreading misinformation and telling outright lies about the state of swg. Whether its fun or not or if its significantly better than when the nge first came out is debatable. However, theres no way in hell theres more people playing now than when the nge first launched. Badgersmacker has claimed on several occasions that theres more people playing today and Obriak uses the population of his server to "prove" swg has lots of people still playing. Theres way too much evidence to the contrary, like every server but 4 or 5 being light or very light and the upcoming free server transfers.
But yeah, if anyone is misrepresenting themselves while posting here it only serves to make them look bad.
Hmm, how does the fact that 4 or 5 servers are heavy now, disprove that there were less people when the NGE launched, for you have not statistics/server loads to offer on that period. The only "evidence" involved in any of this post is the fact that two people who play the game, and are generally honest and helpful people if you look at their post history on various forums, have put their word against yours, and since they have produced more evidence than you, as they play the game, (and you have motive to not be telling the truth since you like to bash the game, and they are clearly not trying to recruit as they'd much rather you didnt resub) then surely they are right, considering this situation.
While I don't like swg or what happened, I wouldn't consider myself an "angry vet". I've actually moved on to a game that I really like and only like to make the occasional comment on swg. Its not like I've devoted my life to the extinction of swg by writing letters, proposing boycotts or making my own anti-soe/swg website.
Please show a screen shot of those 4 or 5 servers on heavy, because EVERY screen shot I've seen, from the "vets" and "fanbois", shows about 20 servers at light or very light, 3 or 4 at med. and 1 or 2 at heavy. Obriak himself said just a few months ago that theres only 4 or 5 servers that even hit medium. Before the nge, almost every server was either at med. or heavy, with 4 or 5 at light or very light. Players have been crying for years now about dead servers and now theres going to be free server transfers, which is never a good sign for a games population. Also, those 2 aren't always honest about the state of the game and summarily dismiss whats been done to the game in the past as no big deal. I doubt the population is anywhere near what the "angry vets" claim (anywhere from 2-10k) but there certainly isn't over 100k, which Badgersmacker claims is very much possible.
If people enjoy the game as it is, then thats fine. People have different tastes and I'd never tell anyone what they can and can't have fun with. All I ask is people be honest.
Edit: Sorry Saay. I edited out something here. I got you confused with someone else. My apologies.
You are still completely ignoring the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that more people played at the beginning of the NGE - I know very well populations aren't ant any of the Pre-NGE levels, i played before NGE as well and I'm not naive. I just don't understand how you can ask people to be honest when many of you here are simply making unfounded claims, and the most proof some of you guys have is logging onto a dead server and going to MO at 3am and claiming the game is dead. (im talking generally, no personal attack on you)
Daffid: If SOE are regularly viral marketing in such a way, firstly, wheres the evidence? and secondly if they no people can just do the SWG trial, why would they need to do such marketting? anyone who has a mind of their own, will want to try the game for themselves (providing not too much of the false claims from these forums have affected them), and anybody who doesnt like it will not continue to play it - thus viral marketting would be pointless, especially on these forums.
Finally, i cant talk for BadgerSmaker, but Obraik, whom i happen to know quite well, is as honest as it gets; show me one instance where he has lied.
While no one has any diect evidence that SOE is using paid viral marketers to plague these boards, SONY has been caught doing similar things in the past:
www.itwire.com/content/view/8138/53/
We know the people we are dealing with are not above using underhanded tactics to market their products, and have created false internet personas to do so.
It is quite likely they would do so here. Looking at the repetitious nature of certain posts around here and the completely tenacious and irrational love these folks seem to have for SOE, it makes sense to assume it is highly likely that these folks, or at least some of them, are SONY created fakes.
Had SONY not been already known for doing these things, I could see being incredulous. In that this is not the case, one has to regard all pro-SONY internet chat as being suspect. That's all SONY's fault. They wrecked their own credibility forever. That's done.
Those most recent and repetitive posts are those of Wildcat, he admitted it essentially. Hypocracy.