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MMORPG.com is the bane of MMORPGs
cstriker
Member Posts: 14
You dont beleive me? Try reading their reviews for each game that comes out. I guess they get paid to talk good about a game, and dupe the community into buying bad games. Why the hell would you guys let Enotts advertise on your site. Its hard to find games these days that are not being ruined by people who trade in game items for real money. That kills a game. And you are chopping your own legs off. Lets see what explaination you guys give. I'm not expecting any because I know you dont give a shit about dedicated gamers. Go ahead and flame me now.
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Comments
That is not true at all. Our reviews are 100% the opinion of the staff members that review the games...they are influenced in no way whatsoever. You should not base your decision on whether to buy a game or not on one review. Everyone is different and likes different things - which is why you may or may not agree with our writers on every game. Or you may just be overly-negative and likely not to like any MMORPG.
As for Enott's - we actually took the time to poll our community and monitored several discussions on the matter. As it turns out - about 60% of our members don't think that there is anything wrong with currency trading. However, still concerned over the amount of people who do take offense to it we decided to create a rule here that we will only sell 15% of our available inventory to currency trading sites.
I care about this community more than you would likely ever know...but I don't expect you to believe nor understand that. Perhaps you would be happier on a site that is pounding you with pop-up ads, spyware programs and ads for dating web sites
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
"Or you may just be overly-negative and likely not to like any MMORPG."
Not like any mmorpg huh ?!? lol. I actually take the time to stick with a game long enough to see what it has to offer. Not make snap decisions. Maybe you should have a discusson forum with a few volunteer gamers who play the game, the same time your reviewers play. Then you guys maybe on the same page as some of the gamers.
"I care about this community more than you would likely ever know"
Oh but when you work for an organization and care about something so much, you dont provide back doors into it, no matter what the popular opinion is. How can you discount the fact that people are leaving games like Lineage 2, because they can not tolerate the nuisance these ebay, and online traders cause on the servers? Have you ever been personally griefed by some of these guys in a game? I dont think so. So just because it makes business sense to go with a source of funding does'nt make it right. Poison in small quantities over time still kills.
"...but I don't expect you to believe nor understand that. Perhaps you would be happier on a site that is pounding you with pop-up ads, spyware programs and ads for dating web sites
"
You are right, I will never be able to understand the logic behind your decision to go with Enotts... Although the joke about pop-up ads for dating sites was funny
.
When you add value to the MMORPG community, you should be in a position to charge people a minimun amount of money. Ever use file planet? I use their service. Not because I have an additional 6 dollars to spend every month. They have something gamers want. An additional 6 dollars a month does not put a hole in any gamers pocket. If thats the case, they would'nt be playing all these games spending 50 dollars to buy a game, and 15 dollars every month. And to sum it all, I'd be rather happy to browse a gaming site that hits me with pop up ads. Those are surely annoying, but can be taken care of by not allowing pop ups through browser features. How do you get rid of these pests that are killing the Mmorpg games by trading in game items for real cash? Only if people shut em out. Mmorpg is not one individual, but a source of information, that many mmorpg gamers follow religiously. When such an entity supports such pests, what difference can a single gamer do with his actions against such people?? You are supposed to be a role model. And by advertising enotts you are showing gamers, that there is nothing wrong in doing it. You might even be corrupting a few honest gamers that never cheated before.
Think about the long term damage you are doing to these game companies. They put a lot of effort, time, and money into making sure their games are enjoyable. When a subscriber base dies prematurely because of these pests (Happening in lineage 2 right now), so does the game and the gaming company. Only a matter of time before game companies start cracking down on these online item traders.
I hope that I've managed to persuaded mmorpg.com to re consider their thoughts and actions about supporting such people. Whatever the reason might be.
looking forward to you reply
I would have to disagree with some of your views. What is killing L2 is farming...not trading of honest currency. NCSoft needs to crack down on adena farmers...this is the real impact...at least from what I have seen playing the game and heard from other gamers. If the only money being bought and sold was done from players earning it the old fashioned way (killing mobs, crafting, etc) it would not damage the economy. I know first hand that NCSoft has been given long lists of player names of farmers and nothing has ever been done to delete the accounts or ban the users.
Currency trading has been going on in EQ and DAoC for years...yet there is no effect on these games communties dwindling. Many newer titles are even embracing currency trading. In fact the last time I spoke with Enott's they informed me that they would soon be getting a "seal of approval" from a few online game companies.
I guess the reason we have these ads here is as the owner of this site I just don't share your views on the topic. Knowing that others did have your views I took the time to see how my community felt and the majority thought it was fine and another large group not really caring and only a small group really upset about the topic.
Again on the topic of reviews...it is just an impossible task to review games that make everyone happy...all we can ask the writers to do is share their opinions. If you want the opinions of the "gamers" - look at the rating score...that is why we have it there.
All I can do is assure you is that this site would NEVER allow a game company to bribe us for reviews in ANY way...and trust me I have had a couple hint at this with things like "depending on our review score we might buy some advertising..." - not going to work here. I give an assignment to a writer and he returns with a score and a story - and the writers don't have a clue what is happening on the business side of the site.
And if you don't think I care about my community and their opinions...why is this topic still here? Most sites I know of delete topics with people complaining about things like this. But I encourage my members to question our judgement and discuss it in the open (as long as it stays clean of course!) - I may end up saying "sorry, I disagree" in the end...but I do want to hear people's opinions.
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
I have to see them ban or delete any of my post because I have a strong opinion against a game, and I never see it happen, this speak volume in itself as some peoples on this site would say.
- "EQ2 or WoW? I wont touch it! Not even with a stick!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I agree with cstriker. mmorpg.com holds a an influencial position in the general mmorpg community and imo should act in a responsible manner and in the best interest of the genre.
Ask any person if they agree with account trading or selling ingame currency for real cash and the ones that say it's ok are always thinking 1st about their bank balance and 2nd about gameplay (because of course money is more important that anything else *sigh*). Buying items for cash devalues the efforts of those that improve their game characters through proper gameplay. A fair sized part of the gameplay in mmorpgs is based around competition whether it's pvp or just the desire to be the best. Items for $$ ruins this.
I'm dissapointed to see a site I respect and consider to be the best of its type supporting & promoting something which damages the mmorpg experience. With your influence, you add an air of legitimacy to $$ item trading when in fact it could get a players account banned because on at least 90% of mmorpgs it is against the terms and conditions.
This is about games not money. IF you need money, get a job. If you want better items play the god damn game.
MuHQ :: L2HQ :: LoM HQ :: RYLHQ
MMORPG
I see nothing wrong with people selling items or in game money for real world cash. How does this hurt the game if the player doing the selling earned this stuff in game correctly?
Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
If player A does the hard work in game and collects an item in the game and then sells it to player B for real world money, all that happens in game is the item goes from Player A to Player B. This does not hurt the game in any way shape or form.
Now, in Lineage 2, there is a company that has many people farming items for it and selling them in real life. If this was hurting the game, the game developer (NCSoft) would put a stop to it. But they don't, so no harm, no foul.
NCSoft regularly and actively seek out and ban the accounts of Adena sellers. In one case they tracked movement of large amounts of Adena to one play NC account that held many other lineage 2 accounts, they where all banned. So if fact they do and your last paragraph is totally incorrect.
Economies are affected by Adena selling companies. There are teams that continually farm cash, constantly in large amounts. This cash would not be ingame if it wasn't for the website that sells the stuff. Mor cash in game reduces the value of everyone elses items. One player transferring his stuff directly to another as in your example looks harmless. The fact is though, it is done on a much bigger scale and now people simply have to get their wallet out rather than play the game. Doesn't fair gameplay and competition mean anything or should those aspects of the game that include any kind of competing be based on who has the most money irl? What a crap game concept.
MuHQ :: L2HQ :: LoM HQ :: RYLHQ
MMORPG
I am not going to post much more in this because I have already expressed my opinions I think. Basically I do not agree with those that feel this hurts games - I rather feel it is one of the cool aspects of MMORPG games...the fact that they have their own real economies and that people can work in the game and sell their time to those that don't have the time to enjoy such items. The only people this hurts is those that are annoyed because they don't think that some player should get "uber" stuff without earning it. This does not hurt the game, but rather just upsets a couple jealous players.
I do however feel that farming hurts games, and I don't think this is the same thing as legit players trading stuff they have earned with real world money.
Again, if it is such a horrible thing why are some MMO companies starting to embrace it?
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
Yeah, I'm just jealous.... I'm not even going to reply to that comment. btw, from reading many sites I believe the vast majority are against this practice and judging by your polls the community here are not representative of the mmorpg community as a whole.
If there are games and mmo companies that positively promote this, make a list then all you folk who like that type of thing can go there. Meanwhile though, you're still advertising sites that sell stuff for games where it is expressely against the Terms and condition and can result in the loss of your game account. That doesn't quite sit with your statements does it?
You say you feel farming hurts games. Where do you think the majority of the Adena comes from that sites like the one you advertise sell?
MuHQ :: L2HQ :: LoM HQ :: RYLHQ
MMORPG
Trading and selling virtual items, characters, and accounts for real life value is not a new thing - it has been going on pretty much since the invention of gaming. No, I think it's a casuistry to even claim that selling virtual goods for real value destroys a virtual economy. It has been going on since the dawn of online gaming and I don't think anyone can come up with real evidence that proves selling virtual items for real value destroys that economy.
I would highly recommend everyone to read the following article by Dave Rickey, wherein he elaborates on what impacts virtual world economies have with real-life economies and vice versa. It is a very enlightening read to say the least.
http://www.skotos.net/articles/engines10.phtml
If this is true, then they will solve the problem and so be it.
This may be so, and in that case, then let the developer stop the farming. But I really do not see the problem. If a player can sit and do whatever the farmers are doing to make money in game, then they should be bale to do it. Just because a company is getting them all together to work for them does not make it any less legit. Maybe the developer should put something in game to stop this from hapenning.
This is true, the who has the most money issue does suck. But, a player getting an item he cannot afford is not the cause of this. If I played for months and got a powerful character and then gave good items to a friend who was just starting, this owuld be no different and there was no selling of items with real life money.
If you dont want a player to be able to give another player an item, then the developer should just put restrictions on it.
Bottom line is, if someone is willing to spend real life money to get an item to save themselves real life time, then that is their business. I personally would never do it, it is a game after all. If you don't enjoy the hunt of getting the items, then why play the game.
"If this is true, then they will solve the problem and so be it.
This may be so, and in that case, then let the developer stop the farming. But I really do not see the problem. If a player can sit and do whatever the farmers are doing to make money in game, then they should be bale to do it. Just because a company is getting them all together to work for them does not make it any less legit. Maybe the developer should put something in game to stop this from hapenning."
Just because the developers haven't yet found a way to eradicate it doesn't mean it should be promoted as a legitimate activity.
The developers do put restrictions on it - it is against the terms and conditions, the restrictions are it's not allowed at all.
MuHQ :: L2HQ :: LoM HQ :: RYLHQ
MMORPG
It is so sad that we are even discussing if selling game items for real money is ethical/legitimate or not. If the game companies intended to have their games played that way, they would've been happy to sell high level accounts/currency themselves. If any game company decides to do this, well and good. But until then, when you force such a system down gamers throats with a game that does not officially condone it, its just plain wrong. And by the way selling a player account and selling in game currency are not one and the same. The first does not hurt economy. The second one does. Why?? well when farming companies sell 20 million adena online for 300 USD, in game they set up a shop with high level items priced 3 times as much as the NPC trader values. So people are forced to consider buying currency online. Do you realise how hard it is for people to make 15 million in Lineage 2. It would take 2 months to gather that kinda money, unless you play 24/7.
It is pretty apparent that someone so influential as mmorpg.com has so such a big fan base, that the potential financial benefits of condoning such online traders does not hurt their bank balance at all.
The adiminstartor obviously is the owner of the this site. He has every right to do it. But when he supports such traders, it comes off as a pure business decision to me. If he really considered the consequential damages to games, is something that is not clear. NCSOFT does not want any thing to do with any fan/gaming site that support these online traders. They make a great effort to see if a site is legitimate or not, before they provide links to it from lineage2.com. But considering how influential mmorpg.com is, I guess they could careless if a game company like NCSOFT supports them or not.
In my opinion, these people are just a new generation of cheaters and nothing more. Support it, and give any kind of justification to it. But you will still be out numbered by the number of gamers that will not support this system. And our dear admin will most certainly dismiss them saying its just a difference of opinion and he does not see it that way. As a gamer, this is the first time I've been let down by the so called representatives of the gaming community.
Hopefully someone else will come up with a mmorpg site, that will not support trading game items for real cash.
So Long.
Cstriker.
I am a major gamer when it comes to MMORPG's, (I do have a life outside the gameing world) I come to this site to find out news and undates on upcoming games and I must say im very pleased with this site, but I can see what your saying. I really hate it when people sell/buy virtual items for real life cash, not only does it ruin the game, but its just not right, Like when people like myself play for start from the ground and work up finding and earning everything that they have in the game and some newb plays for 1 minute and buys the best equipment money can buy. Thats possibly the only downfall of this site, is the advertisments that have to do with suchs things.
I beleave that the reveiws on this site are 100% opinion of the admin's.
Congrats cstriker, you bring up a very good point that I, meself will be considering for quite some time, although I wont get into this arguement online, I will argue it with my friends at school who also turn to this site for reveiws and such. Im behind you 100% on this. Good luck in the future, I hope to see more posts from you soon.
Why does this bother you? It is no different than real life. If a person has a rich uncle that gives him some item he couldn't afford, does he not deserve it? Does it upset you in real life?
There is nothing unrealistic about it. No different than inheritance, rich relatives, etc...
A player in game having better stuff than you does not ruin the game for you. Do youhave some need ot have better gear than everybody else?
Why does this bother you? It is no different than real life. If a person has a rich uncle that gives him some item he couldn't afford, does he not deserve it? Does it upset you in real life?
There is nothing unrealistic about it. No different than inheritance, rich relatives, etc...
A player in game having better stuff than you does not ruin the game for you. Do youhave some need ot have better gear than everybody else?
No, I don't have a problem with people having better gear then me, I just find it a little irritating when newbies with rich uncle's find some need to brag about items that they dont even know how to use yet. Then without accually playing they game first, they go into dueling games (At this point im refering to Diablo 2 LOD) and start killing people, or they go into games where people are accually trying to play the game, and they kill them.
I realilize how ignorant my original post made me sound and for this I apoligize.
I also apoligize in advance for this rather ignorant post (laughs). Also for any ignorance that may come from my future posts. Good day.
There are always going to be griefers no matter how they get their gear. The fact that they bought their gear online has nothing to do with the fact that they are trying to ruin the game for other people.
This is not a very good argument against people buying stuff from a source other than in game...
As long as the item was originally acquired in game fairly, then whatever the reason the item gets passed around after that, is fair.
Just because Player A give the item to Player B for real money makes no difference. What if he had given that item to Player B for nothing? Player B still has it. There still was no other item/in-game money changing hands...
If the game is designed finely, no amount of RL trading would harm the game.
I am against trading and selling RL stuff for virtual stuff. But the best way to make it irrelevant, is to developp the game accordingly.
If the player need to do anything they dont like in order to achieve something in the aspect of the game they like, then trading will prosper and harm the game(althought I would argue that trading dont harm the game, the systems enforcement is what really harm the game, the trading is like a grandma remedy, it dont do much). If players only need to do stuff they like in order to achieve what they like in the game, then trading become irrelevant.
Most MMORPG by enforcing their gameplay style over the other gameplay style(raiding, PvP or tradeskilling) actually help trading RL currency for virtual stuff, because their players rather pay then play the game, and I understand that motive very well. If the player only need to do what they like, why would they want a shortcut and enjoy the game less?
NCsoft and Cryptic are finding slowly but certainly the bane of this problem, by making players do what they like. Dont tell me Influence is worth much on the market, players earn it doing stuff they like, they wont pay much for it.
Why do you think EQ characters sell high? Because raiders dont like to group and solo and earn XP, yet, it is a prime requisite over them and they need it before they can raid, which is presponderous, and this is why some peoples pay cash for it. If been a level 1 or a level 100 make absolutely no difference in the raiding game or a very trivial difference, then the value drop, because raiders dont need what they dont want to do in game as much anymore! And the wheel goes the other ways as well, a grouper or a soloer that dont like raiding will consider paying high $ for a geared toon that only lack XP, which they love to get anyway and make them happy to earn! Some Afterlifers would have paid premium cash to get my AA maxed chanters in early 2003, because they dont want to earn that XP, raiding for the gear is what they like! Those Afterlifers would not have paid much for a chanter with onl 20 AAs but all the best gear in the game, yet some peoples that dont like raiding would. The devs are guilty, and not only in EQ, in all the games where a system is enforced on another. Soloing, grouping, raiding, PvPing and tradeskilling have almost nothing in common, you really need 5 differents systems and that is assuming raiding dont need more then 1 system alone, but a 20 persons raid have little in common with a Qarm raid force pre-LDoN. As long as they think a system is a superior form of another gameplay rather then completely different gameplay, they are doomed to have those issues.
- "EQ2 or WoW? I wont touch it! Not even with a stick!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Humbly, I think what bother you really is not even their bragging. You could maybe even live with the fact they do some stuff better then you despite the fact they are unworthy. What bother you most is the fact that the players in general are lame enought to prefer those morons in group because their raw untapped power make them better.
I think you are a true grouper, maybe even more then me. I think that you really LOOOOVE the grouping system, and seeing it been destroyed by peoples earning stuff they dont deserve kill your interest into the game. You should hate raiders as well if I am right althought, unless you like raiding yourself, raiding kill the grouping game in games like EQ. Even if you love raiding, you may still hate the fact raiding destroy the true grouping system.
- "EQ2 or WoW? I wont touch it! Not even with a stick!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
i think there is nothing wrong with selling stuff off games for real life cash because the people that buy know what they are paying for and if they think its wrong why are they doing it.
if you dont like it dont do it. because not everyone is going to stop doing it just cuz one person or some people dont like it.
put it this way have you ever played a game that you spent for ever on and built your guy up so far that you just eventually said im gonna quit? well then if you have then you know what im talking about because you arent just going to build your character up so high and then just quit and never play agian while that chracter is just chilling there and never being playe... so you sell it and you cant sell it for items on the game if you are quiting so you sell it for real cash so you get somthing out of it.
so really there is nuthing wrong with selling game items, characters etc... for real life cash.
"Everyone is intitled to there own opinions but doesnt mean its right!"
"Everyone is intitled to there own opinions but doesnt mean its right!"
Eh, I'll throw in my two cents here. Why not.... Nothing else to do this early. Heh.
Now, I personally have never bought anything from ebay or whatnot. But I also don't see how this hurts the game overly much. It can be aggrivating, sure, if you're the type who's worked their chars up from scratch. But on that note, how does it overly effect you? Sure, you might run into the dippy little guy who just spent a year's worth of lunch money on his shiney new level 60 cleric, and doesn't know how to play it, and gets half the group killed. So you toss him, find a new person. I personally don't think it effects the true in-game economy as much as people think.. I really don't. What effects in-game economy is how much the people who really play and don't ebay sell their stuff for. Really. And also what items are 'popular' right then. Sure, a couple months ago it could have been the 'Dagger of Ragnarokal Suffering', selling for millions.. A few patches later, it's worth 10k, and the 'Demon's Eye of Mass Piggies' is what's the next thing people want. Now, I will also grant part of how much people sell items for in-game, is based on how much cash is floating around on there... Which is partially why L2's economy is a bit screwed up. The farmer problem on that is more the fault that the people who buy it though. At least in my opinion. Every other game has currency selling, and most of them arn't effected as badly, or as noticably, as L2. At least in my experience.. Lord knows I could be wrong. So I just can't bring myself to care overly much about it one way or the other. If people do it, fine, I'll deal.
Now, the other thing I wanted to touch on. The Admins padding the reviews or whatever... If they do or don't, who knows. Personally, I've never read one of the staff reviews for a game. Me? I always looked at the ratings and the actual player reviews. Just have to skip past the 'coolest game evar!'. Ignore the 'dis sux monkeys'. Oh, and also disregard the 'Oh so-and-so, your review was crap. How can you say this is good/bad?'. And have the patience to search through to the rare good review. Y'know, one of the ones that takes up a good quarter of the given page of player reviews. Those ones. It's hard, I know.. But you're all MMORPG games. You should have enough patience to get through a couple pages of crap by now.
'Course, if all that fails, I also go to my old standby reviewer: My rich friend who buys every single MMO that comes out, and plays 'em for at least a month. Just gotta ask him later, and he'll give me an informed opinion that I trust. ;P
*shrug*
Your post only takes into consideration how it would affect the economy. You totally miss out any discussion of how it affects fair gameplay and the feel of the game as an online world. One aspect: mmorpgs are naturally competetive, the people buying this gear for cash do it because they want to compete with others. It's the equevelant of cheating. If i take pride in a character I built up through playing the game, it's reduced to meaning nothing when someone can simply buy the same with $$ (please don't attempt to attach some kind of jealousy tag here as is commonly done because I could easily purchase gear if I was that way inclined). Why should what another player has matter to me? Realistically, someone who buys stuff does not affect my daily hunting/playing but I like the fact that if I see X player with a particularly rare item, I know that he/she must have defeated a particularly tough enemy, it was an achievement and some respect as a gamer is deserved or respect as a hunter is deserved (after all these games have the RPG acronym on the end). I read an admin post on here soemwehre that they only list mmo's that are considered Role Playing Games. Where does buying for $$ items fit into roleplaying? If games where you can buy items is such a "cool idea" then start a site dedicated to that type of game, which is totally alien to the concept of mmoRPG.
And I'll say again regarding the economy it's not just a case of player A passing an item to player B. It is done on a large scale and the currency being transfered for the most part is generated by farmers who would not be in the game at all. Not only is it reducing the value of players items who obtained them legitimately, these farmers are doing this for a living and don't care who they grief to get paid.
MuHQ :: L2HQ :: LoM HQ :: RYLHQ
MMORPG
It is not the sell of items out of game that is ruining the game. It is the farming of items/money done by large groups (as in Lineage2). This is what should be stopped, not the outside selling of items.
These companies need to do something about that problem.
Developers really have no control of what goes on outside their game. But, they do have control of what goes on inside. The farming is happening in game. They should be able to affect that part of the problem. And that part of the problem is the real problem.
I guess the question is, where do you draw the line between fair pratices of selling accounts and items vs unfair farming and over priced sale of rare items? Who is going to control it, the Online traders ? LMAO. A game is built to be played in a certain way. By doing what is declared in the games NDA as ILLEGITIMATE, you are in violation of the agreement. How is that any different from cheating by using wall hack or such in Counter Strike or any of the other games? You are obtaining an unfair advantage over the other player who played his butt of, to achieve whatever he has to date. Do you really think, Enotts or any of the other online traders will step up and regulate farmers? Asking them to behave well in game, not to steal rooms from hunting parties, and all the other shit they do to farm the money? That will never happen. The fact is, these online traders care about one thing, and that is to squeeze as much money out of a games community, while the game is still hot.
So you have on one side, the developers of the game, who are trying to keep the cost of playing games at a minimum, and keep the games enjoyable with content, and events. On the other hand, you have some Jack Ass who had nothing better to do but setup a business with the motto of making money at all costs (Even if that means killing a game by flooding the economy with currency, and over price items). Whose side do you pick? Why is that decision hard? Maybe I'm missing something here. I'm saying I want to play a game fair, and not cheat, and some of you are saying its really ok to obtain items from questionable sources!!! A dear friend of mine is no longer interested in playing this game anymore, cause he says he cant compete with people who spend their pay checks for buying adena in lineage2 as he is a student. He moved on to play Rzyom. Would he ever consider buying anything from these people for RL cash? Never.
If you catch a cheater on a Counter Striker server, what do the admins do?? Kick the shit outta him, and ban him from the server. Why do they do that? because they want to keep their servers enjoyable to fair gamers. Who are the fair gamers? People who dont cheat, and actually invest some time to learn the game, and increase in skill or level. Did you guys ever enjoy being harrased by people, killing you every time, because they have an unfair advantage? I dont think so. Its a matter of right or wrong. Some of you being casual about such a huge problem, that will one day kill the mmorpg gaming community for good, is very puzzling. Let me know where you think I'm wrong, cause I am really trying hard to understand, what it is you guys see that some of use who oppose this dont.
And Admin, I hope you are still watching these posts.
Peace
Cstriker
Be assured, I AM.
- Malkavian
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive" - Malkavian Proverb
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
Forum Stalker
Malkavian@mmorpg.com
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive"