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PVP not equal
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Excuse the ignorant question, but didn't L2 have something like Aion for a hero status?
Yes it does. And I'm actually for this. I know many who are not, but I like the idea of working for something and becoming very powerful because of it. It's an interesting concept and though I don't see myself ever becoming a hero I like the concept. Perhaps there will be a bit more balancing so that they are not "too" much of a god. Then again, this seems to be a very western notion that everyone has to be equal.
In Lineage 2, the clan leader has more power then the rest of the clan and has more abilities such as riding a Wyvern or claming a castle. I don't see why players who are willing to be at the forefront can't also be singled out for greater rewards.
Except let's hope it's implemented in Aion in such a way that it can't be exploited as it is in L2.
Getting Hero in L2 isn't "won" (with very few exceptions). It's arranged, and controlled, by only the most powerful clans/allies on the server.
It's decided who is going to be the Hero for a given class, then that player is "fed" points by clan/ally mates and/or others, to make sure they have enough to win it.
If you're a "nobody", and you try for Hero when it was "someone else's turn", don't be surprised when their clan, ally and/or their friends declare war and gank you and your clan-mates... as punishment, for trying to "take it without their permission". This has happened many times before.
I don't even consider anyone who Hero to be anything special. It was "their turn", nothing more. It's not "may the best fighter win". It's "may the next person in line please step forward".
I've seen people openly laughed at when they got Hero, because it's well known that they're one of the worst of their class on the server. They couldn't PvP their way out of a wet paper bag with instructions and a starter hole when faced with even a decent match. Yet, they're awarded a status intended to be held by the best of their class.
A friend of mine wants Hero, not because he thinks it's something special. He knows it's a joke. He just wants to be able to talk in Hero chat.
In concept, the Hero system is great. If it's handled differently in Aion, it'll be fine. If it's broken as badly as it is in L2.. it'll be a joke all over again.
And I don't say that out of bitterness or jealousy. I've had no delusions of ever getting Hero. I just don't play at that level. But I do hate when a game system is so horribly exploited and abused, that it's basically pointless.
I could agree with that.
My thought of the L2 hero is similar to yours but there is a caveat. One that I'm not thrilled about but I can see the logic in it.
L2 has always been about clan and alliances. The game is set up this way. Many people have trouble with the game because they don't quite understand this.
So "yes" it's tough to get good equipment or greater rewards if one thinks of themselves. But get a whole clan out there working toward getting mats and leveling their crafters/scavengers and it becomes a lot easier.
Now, bring this to the whole hero system and it becomes more of a lesson in one clan or alliance creating their hero.
Sure, it is a bit less about personal ability but it is more about the group picking their champion/hero.
Western players seem to have a problem with this because we are a bit more oriented to the individual and what the individual can accomplish. change the paradigm and it is about what the clan/alliance can accomplish. this is why feeding points makes sense.
See.. I can see the "clan/ally" effort in other aspects of the game... allies showing up to help defend a castle, etc.
However, the Olympiad, as it's explained, is supposed to be a direct competition between players... Me Vs. You and may the best combatant win. The status of Hero is the reward for defeating all challengers.
However, what the allies are doing is undermining that system by deliberately giving up points to declare someone the Hero. The points aren't being "won". They're willingly handed over. And I seriously don't think that's the way NC intended it to be used. They're not playing it as intended, they're exploiting a flaw in the design.
So, I would agree with you on the clan/ally effort thing in other aspects of the game... because those are all things that are wide-open and group on group... fighting for raid bosses, castle sieges, fort sieges, etc. But.. Olympiad is very deliberately set up as a series of one-on-one competitions, not a "group effort". By feeding points, they are circumventing and undermining the system... not following it.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
PVP needs to be equal or only a few will keep killing everyone else. Why would I play a game where I ONLY get killed by players with more time on their hands than me.
ALL PLAYERS should have a chance to have fun in PVP..............REPEAT............ALL PLAYERS....not only grind 24/7 NO LIFERS ok. WE all pay the same amount for the game not? Why would the players stay with Aion when a few no life get so much power when other games let them have fun too.
This is grinder or get killed after level 40.
You can't battle in Abyss if you're not part of the high end guilds because you just get melee killed or AE destroyed by Heroes.
If you have no life, GRATS, you can play too and be special too. Sucks for everyone else.
Or you can get together with your guild, make a plan and take down the heroes. In Lineage 2 they were not invulnerable. Groups that worked together were able to take down heroes. there were difficulties but I've seen it done often enough.
My thought is that people can either complain about it or come up with a way to deal with it. And again, this is a korean game. Seems to me that they have different ideas as to how gameplay should be. Heroes in L2, These heroes in Aion. Seems to me that it's a theme that some of the developers are interested in exploring.
Everyone can take part in pvp, your role might be different than others. And as I and many have said, this is not a 1 vs 1 game. Just like L2 it is a group game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Excuse the ignorant question, but didn't L2 have something like Aion for a hero status?
Yes it does. And I'm actually for this. I know many who are not, but I like the idea of working for something and becoming very powerful because of it. It's an interesting concept and though I don't see myself ever becoming a hero I like the concept. Perhaps there will be a bit more balancing so that they are not "too" much of a god. Then again, this seems to be a very western notion that everyone has to be equal.
In Lineage 2, the clan leader has more power then the rest of the clan and has more abilities such as riding a Wyvern or claming a castle. I don't see why players who are willing to be at the forefront can't also be singled out for greater rewards.
Except let's hope it's implemented in Aion in such a way that it can't be exploited as it is in L2.
Getting Hero in L2 isn't "won" (with very few exceptions). It's arranged, and controlled, by only the most powerful clans/allies on the server.
It's decided who is going to be the Hero for a given class, then that player is "fed" points by clan/ally mates and/or others, to make sure they have enough to win it.
If you're a "nobody", and you try for Hero when it was "someone else's turn", don't be surprised when their clan, ally and/or their friends declare war and gank you and your clan-mates... as punishment, for trying to "take it without their permission". This has happened many times before.
I don't even consider anyone who Hero to be anything special. It was "their turn", nothing more. It's not "may the best fighter win". It's "may the next person in line please step forward".
I've seen people openly laughed at when they got Hero, because it's well known that they're one of the worst of their class on the server. They couldn't PvP their way out of a wet paper bag with instructions and a starter hole when faced with even a decent match. Yet, they're awarded a status intended to be held by the best of their class.
A friend of mine wants Hero, not because he thinks it's something special. He knows it's a joke. He just wants to be able to talk in Hero chat.
In concept, the Hero system is great. If it's handled differently in Aion, it'll be fine. If it's broken as badly as it is in L2.. it'll be a joke all over again.
And I don't say that out of bitterness or jealousy. I've had no delusions of ever getting Hero. I just don't play at that level. But I do hate when a game system is so horribly exploited and abused, that it's basically pointless.
I could agree with that.
My thought of the L2 hero is similar to yours but there is a caveat. One that I'm not thrilled about but I can see the logic in it.
L2 has always been about clan and alliances. The game is set up this way. Many people have trouble with the game because they don't quite understand this.
So "yes" it's tough to get good equipment or greater rewards if one thinks of themselves. But get a whole clan out there working toward getting mats and leveling their crafters/scavengers and it becomes a lot easier.
Now, bring this to the whole hero system and it becomes more of a lesson in one clan or alliance creating their hero.
Sure, it is a bit less about personal ability but it is more about the group picking their champion/hero.
Western players seem to have a problem with this because we are a bit more oriented to the individual and what the individual can accomplish. change the paradigm and it is about what the clan/alliance can accomplish. this is why feeding points makes sense.
See.. I can see the "clan/ally" effort in other aspects of the game... allies showing up to help defend a castle, etc.
However, the Olympiad, as it's explained, is supposed to be a direct competition between players... Me Vs. You and may the best combatant win. The status of Hero is the reward for defeating all challengers.
However, what the allies are doing is undermining that system by deliberately giving up points to declare someone the Hero. The points aren't being "won". They're willingly handed over. And I seriously don't think that's the way NC intended it to be used. They're not playing it as intended, they're exploiting a flaw in the design.
So, I would agree with you on the clan/ally effort thing in other aspects of the game... because those are all things that are wide-open and group on group... fighting for raid bosses, castle sieges, fort sieges, etc. But.. Olympiad is very deliberately set up as a series of one-on-one competitions. By feeding points, they are circumventing and undermining the system... not following it.
Though you may agree with it in other aspects of the game, it seems to me that the developers have other ideas. If they wanted to mitigate this they could. But they don't. It seems to me that they want this aspect to permeate the entirety of the game. So then the Olympiad isn't a me vs you but a group vs group.
As much as players might want it to be one way the devs seem to have a different idea. I don't see this as bad but I do see it as a paradigm shift that many aren't willing to make.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This system is unfair and just by this news i know at least 7 people (my best friends) just lost interest on this game and trust me we were waiting for this game like hawks. And please dont talk about changing the wow system we saw some youtube videos including tutorials and the game is a wow clone with better grafix which is not all that, gameplay, plot is what we need not some shiny grafix. Well so long aion hopefully codename rapture wont take long...come on SE give us news.
By the way FFXI has nothing to do with any other mmorpg its the only unique mmo out there to date, all the other mmos are clones like it or not.
I'm going to add something here.
In a game of chess, not all pieces are equal in power but when used in conjunction, they all can make a significant difference.
Certainly a knight is not as powerful as a queen but it's unique abilities can make it devastating. Along with that, a pawn, for all the derogatory meaning that its name can conjure is still very useful and can even turn the tide of the game.
It's my feeling that these games utilize a similar philosophy. we don't all get to be queens but we get to become part of a greater whole depending upon our gaming style as well as how we work together.
The problem is that everyone wants to automatically be made a Queen when some of us are naturally rooks or knights.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The system is not unfair in any shape or form. A terrible player being given the same rank as an awesome player is unfair - and I presume that is what you want.
------------------------------
So what? So you think that 100 hero players are going to be "ruin" the game for EVERY other player on the server? Thats just retarded. I think its great that for once in an mmo some people can actually climb to the top and actually BE at the top as opposed to games like WoW where everyone can reach the top and everyone is a hero which is just stupid.
Go and watch any fantasy film and you will see that that there are a number of characters that are more powerful than everyone else. You dont get an army of people who are all equal do you? No. Everyone simply plays their part. It might shock you to realise that in an mmo people can work together to help each other so if you want to take down the big old hero guy then you will need to team up with comapnions to do it. This is a good thing. Actually I'm glad you made this post as I might pay a bit of attention to this game now. Anything that pisses off the mainstream players is good in my book.
If your only reason for playing a game is to "be the bestest" then thats your problem. You simply need to grow up.
See.. I can see the "clan/ally" effort in other aspects of the game... allies showing up to help defend a castle, etc.
However, the Olympiad, as it's explained, is supposed to be a direct competition between players... Me Vs. You and may the best combatant win. The status of Hero is the reward for defeating all challengers.
However, what the allies are doing is undermining that system by deliberately giving up points to declare someone the Hero. The points aren't being "won". They're willingly handed over. And I seriously don't think that's the way NC intended it to be used. They're not playing it as intended, they're exploiting a flaw in the design.
So, I would agree with you on the clan/ally effort thing in other aspects of the game... because those are all things that are wide-open and group on group... fighting for raid bosses, castle sieges, fort sieges, etc. But.. Olympiad is very deliberately set up as a series of one-on-one competitions. By feeding points, they are circumventing and undermining the system... not following it.
Though you may agree with it in other aspects of the game, it seems to me that the developers have other ideas. If they wanted to mitigate this they could. But they don't. It seems to me that they want this aspect to permeage the entirety of the game. So then the Olympiad isn't a me vs you but a group vs group.
As much as players might want it to be one way the devs seem to have a different idea. I don't see this as bad but I do see it as a paradigm shift that many aren't willing to make.
Then I'll have to respectfully agree to disagree.
I don't think people getting into the arena and deliberately losing to feed points to the one person that is chosen to be the next hero is what NC intended. I don't think they intended people who are known as among the worst at playing their class to be given a status designated as "best of class" and its very significant rewards.
If that were the case, why even bother implementing such an involved system? Simply have the system set up where each Hero is selected by popular vote... Wouldn't be too different from how it's done now; only each "vote" is cast by people feeding their points, instead of casting a "ballot".
NC could fix, or mitigate, many things in the game that are screwed up, but don't... botting, hacking... the list goes on. I'd say the reason is more that they don't give a crap enough to bother, as long as they get their subscription fee.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I will love to see your face when the hero guy rape your s over and over till u get numb lmao....and when i say over and over to unlimited, and you know why cause that guy dont have more skills then you but he is a loser who dont work and has the time to grind long enough to get hero. In other words the losers will rule in this game a normal player will be his biatch for ever. Now thats fair to losers and unfair for the rest.
Then I'll have to respectfully agree to disagree.
I don't think people getting into the arena and deliberately losing to feed points to the one person that is chosen to be the next hero is what NC intended. I don't think they intended people who are known as among the worst at playing their class to be given a status designated as "best of class" and its very significant rewards.
If that were the case, why even bother implementing such an involved system? Simply have the system set up where each Hero is selected by popular vote... Wouldn't be too different from how it's done now; only each "vote" is cast by people feeding their points, instead of casting a "ballot".
NC could fix, or mitigate, many things in the game that are screwed up, but don't. I'd say the reason is more that they don't give a crap, as long as they get their subscription fee.
Well, I think the reason they don't change this might be more to do with other things.
My initial guess is that A, they do intend for players to rally behind one player and help them or B, (and this is more my thought) that Korean players don't do this. That they actually treat the arena as it was intended and would find it distasteful to feed points.
It might be somewhat similiar in spirit to a time when some players figured out that they could lure a specific npc mob from a siege into a town to kill other players who were in shop mode.
When the discussion was in full swing, someone posed the question as to why the devs hadn't forseen this. This is when the current cm came and stated (paraphrased) because the korean players are too busy playing the game the way it was designed.
So it would seem that the western players are more apt to find exploits and use them.
"hurray" for us.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
So what you're saying is that only "losers" are able to become hero and no one of merit. I think I'll disagree with that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Argue over internet is like running in the special olympics even if you win you still "special"
Then I'll have to respectfully agree to disagree.
I don't think people getting into the arena and deliberately losing to feed points to the one person that is chosen to be the next hero is what NC intended. I don't think they intended people who are known as among the worst at playing their class to be given a status designated as "best of class" and its very significant rewards.
If that were the case, why even bother implementing such an involved system? Simply have the system set up where each Hero is selected by popular vote... Wouldn't be too different from how it's done now; only each "vote" is cast by people feeding their points, instead of casting a "ballot".
NC could fix, or mitigate, many things in the game that are screwed up, but don't. I'd say the reason is more that they don't give a crap, as long as they get their subscription fee.
Well, I think the reason they don't change this might be more to do with other things.
My initial guess is that A, they do intend for players to rally behind one player and help them or B, (and this is more my thought) that Korean players don't do this. That they actually treat the arena as it was intended and would find it distasteful to feed points.
It might be somewhat similiar in spirit to a time when some players figured out that they could lure a specific npc mob from a siege into a town to kill other players who were in shop mode.
When the discussion was in full swing, someone posed the question as to why the devs hadn't forseen this. This is when the current cm came and stated (paraphrased) because the korean players are too busy playing the game the way it was designed.
So it would seem that the western players are more apt to find exploits and use them.
"hurray" for us.
Now that, option B, I can agree with.
The typical Western mentality is that cheating/exploiting is a valid tactic. They spend more time trying to figure out how to circumvent the game than they do actually playing it. And, they always have the (intellectually dishonest) justification that "well, they don't prevent me from doing it, so it must be allowed". I doubt there's a single person out there who says that and truly believes it.
Of course, when the developer does say "that's an unintended glitch and it's considered an exploit, don't do it", those same people cry foul, for "limiting their gameplay".
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
lol, I was about to make a very distastful joke but thought better of it. I'll be a bit pc.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
WINS THE GAME ?
I did not know this was a single player game. J/K
I would prefer to see the Hero skills go more towards party buffs and not to attack skills, This way it will make him lean more to group play and not solo play.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
WINS THE GAME ?
I did not know this was a single player game. J/K
I would prefer to see the Hero skills go more towards party buffs and not to attack skills, This way it will make him lean more to group play and not solo play.
That's a very good idea.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
WINS THE GAME ?
I did not know this was a single player game. J/K
I would prefer to see the Hero skills go more towards party buffs and not to attack skills, This way it will make him lean more to group play and not solo play.
That's a very good idea.
Meh, similarily, I would like to see chanters (the healer classes) lean more towards healing (ie what they are supposed to do) than attack skills.
------------------------------
WINS THE GAME ?
I did not know this was a single player game. J/K
I would prefer to see the Hero skills go more towards party buffs and not to attack skills, This way it will make him lean more to group play and not solo play.
That's a very good idea.
Meh, similarily, I would like to see chanters (the healer classes) lean more towards healing (ie what they are supposed to do) than attack skills.
hmmm, this I disagree with. I think that everyone should be able to hold their own. I do believe that pure damage dealers should be just that.
But even in Guild Wars, the healers can do damage. it adds a nice level of usefulness. Of course, perhaps there is a way to slide your character more toward one and away from the other.
Also, to others, as Neyon pointed out in another thread, just because you have the points, doesn't mean that you will get the rewards in Abyss pvp. Apparently there are other factors as well. So grinding out points will only get you the ticket for admission.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
WINS THE GAME ?
I did not know this was a single player game. J/K
I would prefer to see the Hero skills go more towards party buffs and not to attack skills, This way it will make him lean more to group play and not solo play.
That's a very good idea.
Meh, similarily, I would like to see chanters (the healer classes) lean more towards healing (ie what they are supposed to do) than attack skills.
hmmm, this I disagree with. I think that everyone should be able to hold their own. I do believe that pure damage dealers should be just that.
But even in Guild Wars, the healers can do damage. it adds a nice level of usefulness. Of course, perhaps there is a way to slide your character more toward one and away from the other.
Also, to others, as Neyon pointed out in another thread, just because you have the points, doesn't mean that you will get the rewards in Abyss pvp. Apparently there are other factors as well. So grinding out points will only get you the ticket for admission.
Yes, I have played GW for a long time but monks have never been considered damage dealers. I understand the need for all classes to hold their own - but healers are healers not damage dealers.
Healers should be good in pvp cuz they are hard to kill not cuz they pwn everything - and should get abyssal points for healing faction members too. It is simply unfair to make them good at killing and good at healing - other classes don't get such abilities.
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I tihnk in the grand scheme of things it doesnt realy make a difference. If both sides have them then no one really has an advantage. I guess it lessens the personal impact of non heroes relatively on the battlefield. I know I myself would never become a hero. That doesn't really turn me off from the game though. If the hero is as strong as it looks though it could be serioulsy boring to play against one. If he engages you its over before it starts. I mean i know you ahve allies but he was shrugging off alot of fire.
I really like the idea and I would love to see the hero from each side duking it out in the abyss. It would be clash of the titans. I think the system is fair and equal. Both sides can have one hero so if you spend equal amount of time played as the guys competing for hero then it really just boils down to who is the best out of that group to earn the title. I will more then likely never come anywhere close to getting that title and I don't plan to either. I still think it's a neat idea to have an exclusive reward like that.
New quote for my sig is what that is!! Wootz, well said. *clap*
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
OMFG!! The ONLY way this game is a WoW clone is when talking about the leveling curve!!!!!!!!!!!!!
People really do read only what they want to. Honestly.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
Unfair ?? hahaha
( you based your comments on a few youtube vids) hahaha
never even played it yet and already your calling it unfair.
And please don't comment on game play until you have atleast tried it. because it makes you look quit foolish.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Unfair ?? hahaha
( you based your comments on a few youtube vids) hahaha
never even played it yet and already your calling it unfair.
And please don't comment on game play until you have atleast tried it. because it makes you look quit foolish.
Faction based games don't intrest me too much, I don't get over hyped about them or anything. But ones that were time>skill instantly get the no vote from me.
Edit: I've looked at more info since this post, maybe it won't be too bad but it still looks like time>skill for the most part. Furthermore, any system were the top players remain the top players permantly also gets a no vote from me because that means the first player to achive the rank will always have it because the abilities awarded by that rank are more powerful than what others have access to.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher