The point is this is not exclusive to NCsoft, it's a huge problem every MMO faces. People have been burned in the past with L2 so it's natural for them to freak. I never played L2 that much so I don't see the big issue, I dealt with bots and gold sellers in all other MMOs too. It takes months for new MMOs to get a grib on it after release. So we'll see if this is still a huge problem this time next year, then I and many others will be bitching along with everyone else.
There's one BIG difference between AION and L2. You CAN'T attack (and kill) players of the same faction.
What does that have to do with anything? If L2 was so great about self policing themselves through PvP, why is there so much QQing?
Sellers and bots are a bigger problem then that, unfortunately.
The point is this is not exclusive to NCsoft, it's a huge problem every MMO faces. People have been burned in the past with L2 so it's natural for them to freak. I never played L2 that much so I don't see the big issue, I dealt with bots and gold sellers in all other MMOs too. It takes months for new MMOs to get a grib on it after release. So we'll see if this is still a huge problem this time next year, then I and many others will be bitching along with everyone else.
There's one BIG difference between AION and L2. You CAN'T attack (and kill) players of the same faction.
What does that have to do with anything? If L2 was so great about self policing themselves through PvP, why is there so much QQing?
Sellers and bots are a bigger problem then that, unfortunately.
I believe the direction he is going is instead of decreasing a flagged bot's XP and drop rate, why not flag them as KoS to everyone?
Just while I was playing last night in the starter zone I watched five bots chasing around mobs. I would love to kill them and have them banned later than ban them but give the botter time to gather more cash/items before the GMs get around to it.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
Banning those guys/gals is a waste of time, they come back in 30 seconds flat with another bot or even worse, then to top that of some get ticked and start malicious actions.
The penilty is not strong enough that is the damn problem and it's a joke to them.. they do not care and why would they.
lol, I remember when Final Fantasy XI had that massive ban of bots. It was during my trial month when I was playing the game. I agree with the poster that said you cant stop it, all you can do is hope to contain it. I think the only thing they can do really is just have a bot ban every month. Also the idea using the bot button that decreses XP gain is a very bad idea. I think it should be used to flag the accunt so they can start watching it and make sure that it is indeed a bot and then ban it.
I believe the direction he is going is instead of decreasing a flagged bot's XP and drop rate, why not flag them as KoS to everyone? Just while I was playing last night in the starter zone I watched five bots chasing around mobs. I would love to kill them and have them banned later than ban them but give the botter time to gather more cash/items before the GMs get around to it.
Yeah that would be a better idea, what they are going with now sounds really lame and inefectual... ><;
I believe the direction he is going is instead of decreasing a flagged bot's XP and drop rate, why not flag them as KoS to everyone? Just while I was playing last night in the starter zone I watched five bots chasing around mobs. I would love to kill them and have them banned later than ban them but give the botter time to gather more cash/items before the GMs get around to it.
Yeah that would be a better idea, what they are going with now sounds really lame and inefectual... ><;
The thing is if NCsoft opened botters up to KoS it would not only keep the profit from the botters coming in, but it would make the players happy since it would always be open season on botters.
I could see epic sieges on the likes of botters, would be great fun.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
Disturbing news, and the new graphs in there about quest exp vs grind exp seems to say that despite assurances from many sources, Aion is in fact, and typical grindfest game.
Of course, what you can't tell is..how fast does exp go up? If I can grind to level 50 with not a lot of effort, then the raw numbers don't matter much.
But if it takes years like it could with L2, then no thanks.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Disturbing news, and the new graphs in there about quest exp vs grind exp seems to say that despite assurances from many sources, Aion is in fact, and typical grindfest game. Of course, what you can't tell is..how fast does exp go up? If I can grind to level 50 with not a lot of effort, then the raw numbers don't matter much. But if it takes years like it could with L2, then no thanks.
I can't speak for the grind in the higher levels but even into the teens leveling takes about the same time it took in EQ2 back before it got all squishy. It does take a lot more time than WoW does but this could also be because I can't read any Korean and basically have to "feel" my way around.
I played an Elyos Gladiator in open beta and made mid teens. I just started playing a Asmodian Assassin the other night and it took me a few hours to get level 10 and finish my wings. Again most of this is due to having no idea what to do.
Few pics from the Ascension quest for Asmodians just cause I am bored.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
3000 bots is 6% of Aion's subscriptions...and it was likely higher, because i just did the math with Aion's current amount of subs, which is growing rapidly.
I can't speak for the grind in the higher levels but even into the teens leveling takes about the same time it took in EQ2 back before it got all squishy. It does take a lot more time than WoW does but this could also be because I can't read any Korean and basically have to "feel" my way around.
I consider WOW the fastest leveling p2p game
I played EQ2 on its release and it seemed 3 times slower than WOW on release
but EQ2 was still *much faster* than Everquest
I dont think players care about leveling speed as much as what they have to do for leveling
both EQ2 and WOW offered more quests than you needed to level
I like to quest but enjoy killing stuff in groups too
They need to do it like WoW take out the massive grind factor and make all the good items soulbound.. that way it eliminates the need for a middleman (gold/item farmerS). The gold farming infestation can't really be eliminated thru bannings but it can be eliminated with the proper game design.
What? WoW is full to the gills with gold sellers. The most assuredly do not have the proper game design. Sorry.
So true lol. Sad to say, WoW fanboi are so blind -_______- to the obvious.
WoW doesnt have a good design either, it all repetitive, even the quests are the same. The graphics (below average) and the combat are all the same. The tooltip and system UI needs improvements. The crafting system is imperfect.
Each expansion will add 10 more levels. At the end of the day, it is still about grinding to lvl 100 and beyond, but released in a slow way. Most Korean MMO allow the players to hit 60 pretty fast.
It must be noted that WoW is 4 years old and going to 5 soon. And the max lvl is currently 80 and once your sub expires, you do not own the account anymore. Only by continue ur sub, can you own your account and uber powerful characters.
The only fun part about WoW is, the player feels powerful.
So true lol. Sad to say, WoW fanboi are so blind -_______- to the obvious. WoW doesnt have a good design either, it all repetitive, even the quests are the same. The graphics (below average) and the combat are all the same. The tooltip and system UI needs improvements. The crafting system is imperfect. Each expansion will add 10 more levels. At the end of the day, it is still about grinding to lvl 100 and beyond, but released in a slow way. Most Korean MMO allow the players to hit 60 pretty fast. It must be noted that WoW is 4 years old and going to 5 soon. And the max lvl is currently 80 and once your sub expires, you do not own the account anymore. Only by continue ur sub, can you own your account and uber powerful characters. The only fun part about WoW is, the player feels powerful.
Sorry, but you've just described Aion.
Most MMO, with the exception of original EQ and some new japanese MMO are exactly like this. BORING.
They need to do it like WoW take out the massive grind factor and make all the good items soulbound.. that way it eliminates the need for a middleman (gold/item farmerS). The gold farming infestation can't really be eliminated thru bannings but it can be eliminated with the proper game design.
What? WoW is full to the gills with gold sellers. The most assuredly do not have the proper game design. Sorry.
So true lol. Sad to say, WoW fanboi are so blind -_______- to the obvious.
WoW doesnt have a good design either, it all repetitive, even the quests are the same. The graphics (below average) and the combat are all the same. The tooltip and system UI needs improvements. The crafting system is imperfect.
Each expansion will add 10 more levels. At the end of the day, it is still about grinding to lvl 100 and beyond, but released in a slow way. Most Korean MMO allow the players to hit 60 pretty fast.
It must be noted that WoW is 4 years old and going to 5 soon. And the max lvl is currently 80 and once your sub expires, you do not own the account anymore. Only by continue ur sub, can you own your account and uber powerful characters.
The only fun part about WoW is, the player feels powerful.
You have a lot of flawed arguments. Sad to say you as a WoW hater is so blind to the obvious. Can't you understand the simple wisdom "different strokes for different folks"?
Arguing about number of levels. It does not matter if the number of level cap is 100 or 10 or 120000. If it takes a lot of pain to get there, level 2 is too much. If its fun to get there, I hardly care how long it gets me to level cap. I am enjoying every day of it.
Aion and many grinders are annoying not b/c of bots or levels alone. I play my game and I m not jealous of the bots. They are rich so bloody what. I feel weary of the grinders b/c apart from grinding the same mob there is nothing else in the game until I ding. And what after I ding? Grinding the next batch of mobs.
As for owning anything in the game, no you never own anything, you hired a log in and you play while you pay. You never buy shares of the company and naturally you own nothing.
The only fun part about WoW is what you feel fun. You like to feel powerful, good. Not all players do. One of my friends never care about uber loot or levelling. He is busy trying out all the crazy achievements. He is the first to tell us where to jump 10000 feet and ends up with only 1 hp, just to get the achievement. He spent a week dropping to death in every possible place, just to find the spot where you ends up with 1hp. Does he feel powerful? No, he has no gear. Does he feel fun, yes.
So true lol. Sad to say, WoW fanboi are so blind -_______- to the obvious. WoW doesnt have a good design either, it all repetitive, even the quests are the same. The graphics (below average) and the combat are all the same. The tooltip and system UI needs improvements. The crafting system is imperfect. Each expansion will add 10 more levels. At the end of the day, it is still about grinding to lvl 100 and beyond, but released in a slow way. Most Korean MMO allow the players to hit 60 pretty fast. It must be noted that WoW is 4 years old and going to 5 soon. And the max lvl is currently 80 and once your sub expires, you do not own the account anymore. Only by continue ur sub, can you own your account and uber powerful characters. The only fun part about WoW is, the player feels powerful.
Sorry, but you've just described Aion.
Most MMO, with the exception of original EQ and some new japanese MMO are exactly like this. BORING.
Original EQ had most of this. Repetitive, level grind, cumbersome crafting, bad UI, added levels with expansion, gear grind.
The only thing it didn't have was obvious quests. They were there, and repetitive, just not obvious. But as it was my first, it seemed awesome.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
They just made another ban list but this time they went through all the KSSN numbers and banned all of those that matched the banned bots.
So even if you did not bot but your kssn matched at bot that was banned then you got the boot also.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Hmmm, I played lineage2 for a long time and for some reason this does not suprise me. It would seem that NCsoft doesn't care about bots as long as the subs are good.
Lineage 2 is a grind game. And Aion is not. But like I said to everyone else talking about shit they dont know about Aion, "hope you stay in Lord of the rings when Aion has release"
To gain max level in Lineage 2 for 1 class .. and we are not talking hero class now but 1 max level. It would take you about 8 hours a day for about 1 and a half year !! I know since I played Lineage 2 since beta and beyond. But this was when the max level before so its prolly more now. No one wants to spend this time sitting at the computer that is why they got alot of bots.
Lineage 2 is a grind game. And Aion is not. But like I said to everyone else talking about shit they dont know about Aion, "hope you stay in Lord of the rings when Aion has release"
To gain max level in Lineage 2 for 1 class .. and we are not talking hero class now but 1 max level. It would take you about 8 hours a day for about 1 and a half year !! I know since I played Lineage 2 since beta and beyond. But this was when the max level before so its prolly more now. No one wants to spend this time sitting at the computer that is why they got alot of bots.
maybe i didnt understand the problem at hand but it seems like people are not using bots for leveling. only goldsellers farming low level areas and i can understand its annoying to see some character stuck to a tree branch trying to run through.
Comments
You guys think this is so easy to abuse? Geez, NCsoft guys aren't that bad.
Probably, like in L2, you can't report the same person if you belong to the same guild or party.
There's one BIG difference between AION and L2. You CAN'T attack (and kill) players of the same faction.
What does that have to do with anything? If L2 was so great about self policing themselves through PvP, why is there so much QQing?
Sellers and bots are a bigger problem then that, unfortunately.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
There's one BIG difference between AION and L2. You CAN'T attack (and kill) players of the same faction.
What does that have to do with anything? If L2 was so great about self policing themselves through PvP, why is there so much QQing?
Sellers and bots are a bigger problem then that, unfortunately.
I believe the direction he is going is instead of decreasing a flagged bot's XP and drop rate, why not flag them as KoS to everyone?
Just while I was playing last night in the starter zone I watched five bots chasing around mobs. I would love to kill them and have them banned later than ban them but give the botter time to gather more cash/items before the GMs get around to it.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
Banning those guys/gals is a waste of time, they come back in 30 seconds flat with another bot or even worse, then to top that of some get ticked and start malicious actions.
The penilty is not strong enough that is the damn problem and it's a joke to them.. they do not care and why would they.
lol, I remember when Final Fantasy XI had that massive ban of bots. It was during my trial month when I was playing the game. I agree with the poster that said you cant stop it, all you can do is hope to contain it. I think the only thing they can do really is just have a bot ban every month. Also the idea using the bot button that decreses XP gain is a very bad idea. I think it should be used to flag the accunt so they can start watching it and make sure that it is indeed a bot and then ban it.
Just type in anything with AION Cheats or Botz even bots for hire. it's staggering to say the least....
Start putting some of these guys on the end of a Shovel for a while like a year or two instead of cotton slaps.
Yeah that would be a better idea, what they are going with now sounds really lame and inefectual... ><;
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
Mod locked thread, going to post the video here:
www.youtube.com/watch
3k in context to what?
when Blizzard trumpets announcements like banning 30,000 back in 2006
arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060612-7033.html
that was out of 6.5 million
ie. less than 5% of their subscriber base
I'm not bashing blizzard
but illustrating that 3k may be alot depending on how many subs Aion has
EQ2 fan sites
3k in context to what?
when Blizzard trumpets announcements like banning 30,000 back in 2006
arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060612-7033.html
that was out of 6.5 million
ie. less than 5% of their subscriber base
I'm not bashing blizzard
but illustrating that 3k may be alot depending on how many subs Aion has
Pretty sure its under 1% - but the real question is what percentage of botters have been banned not what percentage of players.
------------------------------
Yeah that would be a better idea, what they are going with now sounds really lame and inefectual... ><;
The thing is if NCsoft opened botters up to KoS it would not only keep the profit from the botters coming in, but it would make the players happy since it would always be open season on botters.
I could see epic sieges on the likes of botters, would be great fun.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
Disturbing news, and the new graphs in there about quest exp vs grind exp seems to say that despite assurances from many sources, Aion is in fact, and typical grindfest game.
Of course, what you can't tell is..how fast does exp go up? If I can grind to level 50 with not a lot of effort, then the raw numbers don't matter much.
But if it takes years like it could with L2, then no thanks.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I can't speak for the grind in the higher levels but even into the teens leveling takes about the same time it took in EQ2 back before it got all squishy. It does take a lot more time than WoW does but this could also be because I can't read any Korean and basically have to "feel" my way around.
I played an Elyos Gladiator in open beta and made mid teens. I just started playing a Asmodian Assassin the other night and it took me a few hours to get level 10 and finish my wings. Again most of this is due to having no idea what to do.
Few pics from the Ascension quest for Asmodians just cause I am bored.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
3000 bots is 6% of Aion's subscriptions...and it was likely higher, because i just did the math with Aion's current amount of subs, which is growing rapidly.
I consider WOW the fastest leveling p2p game
I played EQ2 on its release and it seemed 3 times slower than WOW on release
but EQ2 was still *much faster* than Everquest
I dont think players care about leveling speed as much as what they have to do for leveling
both EQ2 and WOW offered more quests than you needed to level
I like to quest but enjoy killing stuff in groups too
EQ2 fan sites
What? WoW is full to the gills with gold sellers. The most assuredly do not have the proper game design. Sorry.
So true lol. Sad to say, WoW fanboi are so blind -_______- to the obvious.
WoW doesnt have a good design either, it all repetitive, even the quests are the same. The graphics (below average) and the combat are all the same. The tooltip and system UI needs improvements. The crafting system is imperfect.
Each expansion will add 10 more levels. At the end of the day, it is still about grinding to lvl 100 and beyond, but released in a slow way. Most Korean MMO allow the players to hit 60 pretty fast.
It must be noted that WoW is 4 years old and going to 5 soon. And the max lvl is currently 80 and once your sub expires, you do not own the account anymore. Only by continue ur sub, can you own your account and uber powerful characters.
The only fun part about WoW is, the player feels powerful.
Sorry, but you've just described Aion.
Most MMO, with the exception of original EQ and some new japanese MMO are exactly like this. BORING.
haha so true.
What? WoW is full to the gills with gold sellers. The most assuredly do not have the proper game design. Sorry.
So true lol. Sad to say, WoW fanboi are so blind -_______- to the obvious.
WoW doesnt have a good design either, it all repetitive, even the quests are the same. The graphics (below average) and the combat are all the same. The tooltip and system UI needs improvements. The crafting system is imperfect.
Each expansion will add 10 more levels. At the end of the day, it is still about grinding to lvl 100 and beyond, but released in a slow way. Most Korean MMO allow the players to hit 60 pretty fast.
It must be noted that WoW is 4 years old and going to 5 soon. And the max lvl is currently 80 and once your sub expires, you do not own the account anymore. Only by continue ur sub, can you own your account and uber powerful characters.
The only fun part about WoW is, the player feels powerful.
You have a lot of flawed arguments. Sad to say you as a WoW hater is so blind to the obvious. Can't you understand the simple wisdom "different strokes for different folks"?
Arguing about number of levels. It does not matter if the number of level cap is 100 or 10 or 120000. If it takes a lot of pain to get there, level 2 is too much. If its fun to get there, I hardly care how long it gets me to level cap. I am enjoying every day of it.
Aion and many grinders are annoying not b/c of bots or levels alone. I play my game and I m not jealous of the bots. They are rich so bloody what. I feel weary of the grinders b/c apart from grinding the same mob there is nothing else in the game until I ding. And what after I ding? Grinding the next batch of mobs.
As for owning anything in the game, no you never own anything, you hired a log in and you play while you pay. You never buy shares of the company and naturally you own nothing.
The only fun part about WoW is what you feel fun. You like to feel powerful, good. Not all players do. One of my friends never care about uber loot or levelling. He is busy trying out all the crazy achievements. He is the first to tell us where to jump 10000 feet and ends up with only 1 hp, just to get the achievement. He spent a week dropping to death in every possible place, just to find the spot where you ends up with 1hp. Does he feel powerful? No, he has no gear. Does he feel fun, yes.
Sorry, but you've just described Aion.
Most MMO, with the exception of original EQ and some new japanese MMO are exactly like this. BORING.
Original EQ had most of this. Repetitive, level grind, cumbersome crafting, bad UI, added levels with expansion, gear grind.
The only thing it didn't have was obvious quests. They were there, and repetitive, just not obvious. But as it was my first, it seemed awesome.
Venge Sunsoar
www.youtube.com/watch
nice vid
maybe they can put a wandering elite mob to those locations one that requires teamplay, which players can choose to aviod.
I need more vespene gas.
They just made another ban list but this time they went through all the KSSN numbers and banned all of those that matched the banned bots.
So even if you did not bot but your kssn matched at bot that was banned then you got the boot also.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Lineage 2 is a grind game. And Aion is not. But like I said to everyone else talking about shit they dont know about Aion, "hope you stay in Lord of the rings when Aion has release"
To gain max level in Lineage 2 for 1 class .. and we are not talking hero class now but 1 max level. It would take you about 8 hours a day for about 1 and a half year !! I know since I played Lineage 2 since beta and beyond. But this was when the max level before so its prolly more now. No one wants to spend this time sitting at the computer that is why they got alot of bots.
maybe i didnt understand the problem at hand but it seems like people are not using bots for leveling. only goldsellers farming low level areas and i can understand its annoying to see some character stuck to a tree branch trying to run through.
I need more vespene gas.