to you people who seem to think WoW is dying, and/or dead. Thus anything new should cater to them since they arn't playing WoW anymore. you make me sick. There is nothing worse in this world than egoists who think the world owes them something since they started everything themselves. And how they complain incessantly about how the kids these days and their new fangled contraptions just don't "toot" their respective horns. And thus'ly the world should cater to them. They just don't get it. When McDonalds came out with its substandard quality and fried disgusting mess the old timers first claimed it could never replace the sit down family restaurant. Then it started to become a success started to pop up everywhere. Suddenly there was fast food everywhere they went. They claimed the quality was bad there was no nutritional value. They complained their ears off. But the world didn't listen the new generation found value in the fast easy food given their busy lives. So the new fast food industry blossomed and continues to do so today. You can still find new family restaurants opening up with the lone old timer sitting in it to have his morning coffee and breakfast. And these same restaurants close their doors soon after opening for lack of customers. If you have a hard time seeing the message in this story then you need to grow a pair and accept reality for what it is. Hardcore, sandbox, full loot, PvP games are simply not what the main stream player is looking for and they outnumber your assess 1000 to 1. Not saying you wont get a few title catering to you but the analogy here is not far off of reality. The reality is restaurants do offer better food and nice atmosphere but the majority of people just don't have the time to sit down and wait for their food and eat it. Let alone in a sandbox world they even have to make it themselves. Is it better and more fun for those who have time yes. For the majority of player base who does not it is not only not fun, but annoying. If I want to be a commercial success and tap an already flooded market the only way to get that market share is do what the others are doing. Only better. People go to theme parks to have fun once in a while. To escape from their mundane lives. The hardcore crowd would rather live in their daily life. The majority of people don't want that you lot just need to wake up and realize your just a bunch of crotchety old men on a porch whining about the good old days.
And you're full of shit.
THE PROBLEM WITH MMOS IS THEY ARE TRYING TO DO IT BETTER THAN WOW!
We have enough WoWs! Jesus Christ Almighty! Darkfall isn't going to be a huge success like WoW, but it's still gonna be successful if it does most of what it says correctly.
I don't want to play WoW. I've played it already. Give me something different! I WANT VARIETY!
and guess what...I'm not a whiny old crotchety guy who sits on their front porch and complains about things changing.
I was brought into the genre by WoW and Runescape. So I'm that terrible WoW kiddie that everyone talks about. I'm part of the game that's "ruining" the industry, but I don't want to play WoW anymore. I want something different.
I liked neocron and RF online better then WoW... can't wait to play DF.
to you people who seem to think WoW is dying, and/or dead. Thus anything new should cater to them since they arn't playing WoW anymore. you make me sick. There is nothing worse in this world than egoists who think the world owes them something since they started everything themselves. And how they complain incessantly about how the kids these days and their new fangled contraptions just don't "toot" their respective horns. And thus'ly the world should cater to them. They just don't get it. When McDonalds came out with its substandard quality and fried disgusting mess the old timers first claimed it could never replace the sit down family restaurant. Then it started to become a success started to pop up everywhere. Suddenly there was fast food everywhere they went. They claimed the quality was bad there was no nutritional value. They complained their ears off. But the world didn't listen the new generation found value in the fast easy food given their busy lives. So the new fast food industry blossomed and continues to do so today. You can still find new family restaurants opening up with the lone old timer sitting in it to have his morning coffee and breakfast. And these same restaurants close their doors soon after opening for lack of customers. If you have a hard time seeing the message in this story then you need to grow a pair and accept reality for what it is. Hardcore, sandbox, full loot, PvP games are simply not what the main stream player is looking for and they outnumber your assess 1000 to 1. Not saying you wont get a few title catering to you but the analogy here is not far off of reality. The reality is restaurants do offer better food and nice atmosphere but the majority of people just don't have the time to sit down and wait for their food and eat it. Let alone in a sandbox world they even have to make it themselves. Is it better and more fun for those who have time yes. For the majority of player base who does not it is not only not fun, but annoying. If I want to be a commercial success and tap an already flooded market the only way to get that market share is do what the others are doing. Only better. People go to theme parks to have fun once in a while. To escape from their mundane lives. The hardcore crowd would rather live in their daily life. The majority of people don't want that you lot just need to wake up and realize your just a bunch of crotchety old men on a porch whining about the good old days.
And you're full of shit.
THE PROBLEM WITH MMOS IS THEY ARE TRYING TO DO IT BETTER THAN WOW!
We have enough WoWs! Jesus Christ Almighty! Darkfall isn't going to be a huge success like WoW, but it's still gonna be successful if it does most of what it says correctly.
I don't want to play WoW. I've played it already. Give me something different! I WANT VARIETY!
and guess what...I'm not a whiny old crotchety guy who sits on their front porch and complains about things changing.
I was brought into the genre by WoW and Runescape. So I'm that terrible WoW kiddie that everyone talks about. I'm part of the game that's "ruining" the industry, but I don't want to play WoW anymore. I want something different.
I actually think there are a lot of people like you Capn23, lurking in the dark possibly interested in Darkfall if it delivers, will be interesting to see what happens in the coming months.
I atleast have total confidence in the devs, it might be blind fate, but so be it!
You know what really is very curious and interesting about...hmmm, well let's say 99% of all posts promoting Darkfall?
It's the fact that they apparently cannot do without insulting not only other types of games, but also players who enjoy other types of games. Reading these forums, I really can't help but shake my head when DF Fans then come out of the woodwork and ask, wide-eyed and innocent, why there is so much hate against the DF community.
Read through all posts promoting DF and you will always, always find a smackdown on other games and more importantly, on the people who play other games that do not conform to the Darkfall model.
Instead of just being happy and promoting Darkfall as what it is, a return to a model of gaming systems that has long been ignored because of lack of interest in the grand scheme of things, instead of being happy about that and telling people just why they should be looking forward to DF in simple, positive words for DF, the majority of posts have to bash other games and their players.
Can the DF Fanbois please tell me why? Why do you have to overinflate your ego so much by trying to put yourselves above the rest of the gaming-community which doesn't really like your type of game but which is just indifferent to DF. Why alienate other players with your elitist attitude towards everything that is not Darkfall-like, why insult the large portion of the gaming community with your constant glorification of one gaming experience over another?
Can you please tell me that? I really do not understand it. It doesn't matter what discussion goes on, sooner or later the DF brigade will storm in and claim that only Darkfall does things right and anyone enjoying anything else has no idea about the true concept of anything. Be that PvP, be that PvE, be that Roleplaying...anything.
Any answers? Or just more of the same?
Well said, singsofdeath.
I doubt you will get any honest answers though.
I as well wonder where this type of attitude will lead to.
IF DarkFall does ultimately become a success... it will definitely be overcoming some very big obstacles.
It will be interesting to see if some of it's ardent supporters recognize what some of those obstacles may be, and if they will modify their tactics... or, if they choose... let the consequences be damned?
One way or the other it will make for an interesting analysis in the upcoming years.
Thanks and ya, I know people will not answer. Most likely because they have no answer.
But I agree, the coming weeks and then the months after DF's release will be highly interesting.
Edit: @hidden1: I know not all people supporting DF are like that. And I certainly hope that it's only a very loud minority that acts like it, or the community of this game is gonna be a surefire killer. That's also why I said 99% of the posts here. And not 99% of DF supporters.
You know what really is very curious and interesting about...hmmm, well let's say 99% of all posts promoting Darkfall?
It's the fact that they apparently cannot do without insulting not only other types of games, but also players who enjoy other types of games. Reading these forums, I really can't help but shake my head when DF Fans then come out of the woodwork and ask, wide-eyed and innocent, why there is so much hate against the DF community.
Read through all posts promoting DF and you will always, always find a smackdown on other games and more importantly, on the people who play other games that do not conform to the Darkfall model.
Instead of just being happy and promoting Darkfall as what it is, a return to a model of gaming systems that has long been ignored because of lack of interest in the grand scheme of things, instead of being happy about that and telling people just why they should be looking forward to DF in simple, positive words for DF, the majority of posts have to bash other games and their players.
Can the DF Fanbois please tell me why? Why do you have to overinflate your ego so much by trying to put yourselves above the rest of the gaming-community which doesn't really like your type of game but which is just indifferent to DF. Why alienate other players with your elitist attitude towards everything that is not Darkfall-like, why insult the large portion of the gaming community with your constant glorification of one gaming experience over another?
Can you please tell me that? I really do not understand it. It doesn't matter what discussion goes on, sooner or later the DF brigade will storm in and claim that only Darkfall does things right and anyone enjoying anything else has no idea about the true concept of anything. Be that PvP, be that PvE, be that Roleplaying...anything.
Any answers? Or just more of the same?
Well said, singsofdeath.
I doubt you will get any honest answers though.
I as well wonder where this type of attitude will lead to.
IF DarkFall does ultimately become a success... it will definitely be overcoming some very big obstacles.
It will be interesting to see if some of it's ardent supporters recognize what some of those obstacles may be, and if they will modify their tactics... or, if they choose... let the consequences be damned?
One way or the other it will make for an interesting analysis in the upcoming years.
Thanks and ya, I know people will not answer. Most likely because they have no answer.
But I agree, the coming weeks and then the months after DF's release will be highly interesting.
Edit: @hidden1: I know not all people supporting DF are like that. And I certainly hope that it's only a very loud minority that acts like it, or the community of this game is gonna be a surefire killer. That's also why I said 99% of the posts here. And not 99% of DF supporters.
I don't have an over inflated ego, but I am a fan of Darkfall, and hungry to play it.
When was the last time you played an MMO where the death penalty really made you fearful of dying?
FFXI for me.
You just hit level 70, put on that brand new gear you bought two levels ago and stuck in the locker. Looking good! Go out to get some exp and fun, get a stinky group, party-wipe and now you are naked because you DE-leveled to 69 and already sold your old gear off.
That is a penalty, and I miss that kind of character responsiblity.
*sniff* for good gaming penalties..
I must put FFXI in here also for a game where death sucks, FFXI is the only game I can really play, its been dumbed down a good amount but some of the old MMO feelings like the impact of death are still there. I even got lost two days ago in the game. I was on a firends character who had not done the map quest for an area and realized I had no idea where I was.
------------------------------------------------- Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
Originally posted by Capn23 And you're full of shit. THE PROBLEM WITH MMOS IS THEY ARE TRYING TO DO IT BETTER THAN WOW! We have enough WoWs! Jesus Christ Almighty! Darkfall isn't going to be a huge success like WoW, but it's still gonna be successful if it does most of what it says correctly. I don't want to play WoW. I've played it already. Give me something different! I WANT VARIETY! and guess what...I'm not a whiny old crotchety guy who sits on their front porch and complains about things changing. I was brought into the genre by WoW and Runescape. So I'm that terrible WoW kiddie that everyone talks about. I'm part of the game that's "ruining" the industry, but I don't want to play WoW anymore. I want something different.
I suspect that you are one of a very large group of people, much larger than most people on this site would imagine. All those people that bought AoC and WAR and eventually went back to WoW are all looking for the same thing, something different. And then of course there are all the people that waited to see if those games would take off and the people that would tag along to a new game at the drop of a hat if their friends did. I'm not saying DF will deliver the game these people want but the market for a new product is massive and getting more impatient. People do not want to play the same game for 5 years because no company is able to provide an alternative. As soon as somebody makes a viable alternative WoWs subs will fall off a cliff face.
Originally posted by Capn23 And you're full of shit. THE PROBLEM WITH MMOS IS THEY ARE TRYING TO DO IT BETTER THAN WOW! We have enough WoWs! Jesus Christ Almighty! Darkfall isn't going to be a huge success like WoW, but it's still gonna be successful if it does most of what it says correctly. I don't want to play WoW. I've played it already. Give me something different! I WANT VARIETY! and guess what...I'm not a whiny old crotchety guy who sits on their front porch and complains about things changing. I was brought into the genre by WoW and Runescape. So I'm that terrible WoW kiddie that everyone talks about. I'm part of the game that's "ruining" the industry, but I don't want to play WoW anymore. I want something different.
I suspect that you are one of a very large group of people, much larger than most people on this site would imagine. All those people that bought AoC and WAR and eventually went back to WoW are all looking for the same thing, something different. And then of course there are all the people that waited to see if those games would take off and the people that would tag along to a new game at the drop of a hat if their friends did. I'm not saying DF will deliver the game these people want but the market for a new product is massive and getting more impatient. People do not want to play the same game for 5 years because no company is able to provide an alternative. As soon as somebody makes a viable alternative WoWs subs will fall off a cliff face.
"... WoW subs will fall off a cliff face." Like lemmings.
When was the last time you played an MMO where the death penalty really made you fearful of dying?
FFXI for me.
You just hit level 70, put on that brand new gear you bought two levels ago and stuck in the locker. Looking good! Go out to get some exp and fun, get a stinky group, party-wipe and now you are naked because you DE-leveled to 69 and already sold your old gear off.
That is a penalty, and I miss that kind of character responsiblity.
*sniff* for good gaming penalties..
I must put FFXI in here also for a game where death sucks, FFXI is the only game I can really play, its been dumbed down a good amount but some of the old MMO feelings like the impact of death are still there. I even got lost two days ago in the game. I was on a firends character who had not done the map quest for an area and realized I had no idea where I was.
I have a lot of respect for FFXI, and I agree with both of you on death stinging. I really enjoy that game as I have gone back to play it several times over the years. I think it is probably the best pure PvE MMO you can play, especially given the price. The interface is ass, but once you get over it, there is enough content to hold over even a serious player for a long time.
I really feel like anyone who targets anyone but the general WoW/Halo public should be praised even if they don't do it perfectly. I'm not just talking about making games more hardcore... but also for making games that are really just goofy.
I just played the 360 game "Conan." I'd never heard anything about it and it was aimed at a very different crowd than I'm used to... but it was fun as hell. Praise unto the devs for making a fun game without it being grey/brown gritty realism.
Same goes for MMOs. I don't want instances and penalty-free PvP. I want something DIFFERENT. Seeing as most devs have too big a budget and too much to lose you pretty much only get one flavor... over and over and over and over.
Originally posted by Capn23 And you're full of shit. THE PROBLEM WITH MMOS IS THEY ARE TRYING TO DO IT BETTER THAN WOW! We have enough WoWs! Jesus Christ Almighty! Darkfall isn't going to be a huge success like WoW, but it's still gonna be successful if it does most of what it says correctly. I don't want to play WoW. I've played it already. Give me something different! I WANT VARIETY! and guess what...I'm not a whiny old crotchety guy who sits on their front porch and complains about things changing. I was brought into the genre by WoW and Runescape. So I'm that terrible WoW kiddie that everyone talks about. I'm part of the game that's "ruining" the industry, but I don't want to play WoW anymore. I want something different.
I suspect that you are one of a very large group of people, much larger than most people on this site would imagine. All those people that bought AoC and WAR and eventually went back to WoW are all looking for the same thing, something different. And then of course there are all the people that waited to see if those games would take off and the people that would tag along to a new game at the drop of a hat if their friends did. I'm not saying DF will deliver the game these people want but the market for a new product is massive and getting more impatient. People do not want to play the same game for 5 years because no company is able to provide an alternative. As soon as somebody makes a viable alternative WoWs subs will fall off a cliff face.
"... WoW subs will fall off a cliff face." Like lemmings.
This is the wrong mentality. If you look at everone who is available to play any MMO like a pie that is divided up by what would be their perfect mmo it would still have WoW as the largest chunk. That's not a bad thing. I'll NEVER say what you love is wrong. If you love nothing more than playing minesweeper all day, that's great!
Now, there is a slice of that pie who want something with open PvP yadda yadda yadda that would be satisfied with the Darkfall that has been promised. THAT SLICE SHOULD BE EXCITED THAT THEY ARE GETTING A GAME THAT IS AIMED AT THEM. They SHOULD NOT be pointing fingers at the large WoW chunk and saying "you will now die because I found something better" They SHOULD be reaching out to the other people on their slice and telling them all about it.
In other genres: If I'm loving Left 4 Dead (shooter where it's you and up to 3 friends against a city full of zombies) I'm going to tell my friends who also love shooters and co-op games that they should try it. I'm not going to call my friend who only plays sports games and demand that he break his sports games in half and buy this immediatly because its quality dicates the end of everything he has prevously enjoyed.
I also don't expect my sports game junkie friend to call me to tell me that Left 4 Dead sucks and that I shouldn't be playing it. I should be playing the games that he plays and that Left 4 Dead is a failure.
There is a big difference between people who realize this and people who don't.
I've already emailed a bunch of my oldschool EQ friends to let them know about Darkfall. Not because it's a garanteed homerun... but because it sounds like something they should also be researching... especially since most of them have been out of the MMO scene for so long.
I'm not posting on WoW forums that their game is about to be killed by Darkfall. If WoW players want to try Darkfall... by all means I'll tell you everything I know. I'm not about to go in there guns blazing trying to be some kind of missionary.
"You know what really is very curious and interesting about...hmmm, well let's say 99% of all posts promoting Darkfall?"
"It's the fact that they apparently cannot do without insulting not only other types of games, but also players who enjoy other types of games. Reading these forums, I really can't help but shake my head when DF Fans then come out of the woodwork and ask, wide-eyed and innocent, why there is so much hate against the DF community."
"Read through all posts promoting DF and you will always, always find a smackdown on other games and more importantly, on the people who play other games that do not conform to the Darkfall model."
That's called someone making an opinion. Didn't know there was something wrong with doing that. If someone finds it unagreeable, they can ignore it, or fight it. The sad thing is that 99% of other MMOs don't conform to the DF model, so you can see why so many have so much to complain about.
"Instead of just being happy and promoting Darkfall as what it is, a return to a model of gaming systems that has long been ignored because of lack of interest in the grand scheme of things, instead of being happy about that and telling people just why they should be looking forward to DF in simple, positive words for DF, the majority of posts have to bash other games and their players."
Quite a few of us from forumfall bash other games for an understandable reason. We hate them. We've played them, and now despise them. Most of us were playing MMOs before the majority of gamers entered the spectrum. The majority of gamers started with RS or WoW.
Those game were specifically catered and dumbed down to attract a large crowd of those who never played MMOs before. You can say they are the side of MMOs that are easier to get into, but also dumbed down and repetitive as a consequence.
The difference is this. Some people like to play it safe and easy, they do gokarts at Fiddlesticks and others want freedom and a true challenge, they go street racing.
"Can the DF Fanbois please tell me why? Why do you have to overinflate your ego so much by trying to put yourselves above the rest of the gaming-community which doesn't really like your type of game but which is just indifferent to DF. Why alienate other players with your elitist attitude towards everything that is not Darkfall-like, why insult the large portion of the gaming community with your constant glorification of one gaming experience over another?"
Back to my previous point. Also, alienating other players who don't fit in with DF community is fine. We don't want gamers who don't fully understand what they are getting into.
For intance: If you think pets would fit well in DF, or full loot wouldn't work, or that RPing won't happen in DF, then you fundamentally don't understand the game or the community.
"Can you please tell me that? I really do not understand it. It doesn't matter what discussion goes on, sooner or later the DF brigade will storm in and claim that only Darkfall does things right and anyone enjoying anything else has no idea about the true concept of anything. Be that PvP, be that PvE, be that Roleplaying...anything."
Well, if you feel that the DF fans are unjustified in their claims, I'm not sure what your are doing here. If you don't like the game, or the people who do, find another forum with a game you like with posters who share your perspective, and stay there? People who come here to complain about the game and its community only feed the hatred and then expect a nice response?
Any answers? Or just more of the same?
This is another one of those "I tried to fit in and failed, so it must not be my fault" posts. We get plenty of these topics on the DF newcomer forums. My responses are in italics.
And the last word:
The Darkfall community may not be for everyone. Most of forumfall consists of adults and experienced gamers. The mods give us a lot of leeway in discussions because they know we are mature enough to handle it. Our OT section isn't filled with "wats ur favorite anime" or "whats your first crush xD" topics. We discuss world affairs, touchy controversies, and even many conspiracy theories. This community is definitely different. But anyone can adapt. I know an 11yr old kid from a guild of mine who fits in perfectly with the DF community. This game naturally caters to a crowd with balls. That is Forumfall.
Seems my first post was lost on a lot of you. The idea in the OP was that if DF comes out it will be so profound as to change the course of all MMO's. This is simply not true. There has already been a growth of the industry away from the UO's and early sandbox, open world, PvP, free loot games. The industry evolved to something of a more instant gratificationformat of the wow games with penalty free pvp, instanced "your the hero story modes" and quest based leveling systems.
I was not saying that MMO's like wow are for people who play tetris i am saying the system intself and it's features cater to people who want that instant gratification. People want to level, they want to look cool and unique from everyone else, they want to fight other people but not if it means they have to pay for it with hard earned gear or death penalties. The reason WoW was successful was because they did exactly that. They asked the question. Looking at todays MMO's (EQ, UO etc...) what do they do right and what do they do wrong? And what don;t they do at all. Then how can we then make this all appealing to broad audience. And they did just that.
I was one of the OU people who thought WoW was pathetic kiddie game. I hated it with every fiber of my being. I was an EQ, EQ2 and UO player and loved them with all my heart. I did not even touch WoW until 2006. Only because my younger brother gave me the game for christmas. I installed it and... as much as i hate to admit it... I had fun... I had lot and lots of fun. I then tried other MMO's even korean free ones I used to degrade constantly. And I had fun. I was able to do much more in less time. I was able to accomplish things without the stress and worry of the old UO world. While they were not neccessarily as deep or involved as UO they offered good old wholesome fun. Something I had forgotten about playing UO. Which had become like a second job for me. I played it because it was part of my life and involved. But it was not neccessarily fun.
I am excited to try out darkfall, but I do not in anyway think that any success darkfall has will change the current state of MMO's, the only game that has a chance to change anything is the game that pulls away 40% or more of WoW's market share.
There is not enough of the current player base that has grown up with this instant gratification system that can live with the harsh world that darkfall offers. They have grown up with a system that gave them everything they wanted at their finger tips. If Darkfall had any chance of doing that EVE would have already taken at least a larger market share than it has. The genre of harsh worlds of grinding madness and death around everycorner to whipe out all your hard work just wont appeal to them and their need for quick fast easy gratification.
Anyone claiming or wishing for anything other than a marginal success is fooling themselves. Will Darkfall succeed in it's endeavour to serve the community it seeks to? Hell YEAH! Will it come close to changing the MMO universe? No way in HELL! Anyone wishing or hoping for that is the "crotchety old man sitting on his pourch (with his shotgun)."
Gom276 Prolific MMO player Just can't say no to any mmo
I am excited to try out darkfall, but I do not in anyway think that any success darkfall has will change the current state of MMO's, the only game that has a chance to change anything is the game that pulls away 40% or more of WoW's market share.
incorrect.
If they can prove that enough people exist outside of the WoW/Halo market then other small dev teams will be motivated to develope games for other markets instead of trying to "pull away 40% of WoW's market share."
Again, you are falling for fake arguments. They don't matter, they don't help anything, and they don't solve anything. Sales numbers mean nothing when taken at face value. If you look at Clerks vs Batman: The Dark Night then Clerks is a failure. If you realize that Clerks only cost 10,000 to make... all of a sudden making a couple hundred thousand dollars doesn't look so bad, does it?
It's the mentality of "if the most popular game doesn't lose half it's subs this new game is a failure" that is the problem right now. If it was a billion dollar game that REQUIRED that ammount of success... then yes... your argument is valid. Something tells me that Darkfall will not require "40% of WoW's market share" to be a financial success.
And success with a nitche of the market with something cheap (relative) will inspire other small teams to do the same... thus... the point of the OP.
I am excited to try out darkfall, but I do not in anyway think that any success darkfall has will change the current state of MMO's, the only game that has a chance to change anything is the game that pulls away 40% or more of WoW's market share.
incorrect.
If they can prove that enough people exist outside of the WoW/Halo market then other small dev teams will be motivated to develope games for other markets instead of trying to "pull away 40% of WoW's market share."
Again, you are falling for fake arguments. They don't matter, they don't help anything, and they don't solve anything. Sales numbers mean nothing when taken at face value. If you look at Clerks vs Batman: The Dark Night then Clerks is a failure. If you realize that Clerks only cost 10,000 to make... all of a sudden making a couple hundred thousand dollars doesn't look so bad, does it?
It's the mentality of "if the most popular game doesn't lose half it's subs this new game is a failure" that is the problem right now. If it was a billion dollar game that REQUIRED that ammount of success... then yes... your argument is valid. Something tells me that Darkfall will not require "40% of WoW's market share" to be a financial success.
And success with a nitche of the market with something cheap (relative) will inspire other small teams to do the same... thus... the point of the OP.
No any success that Darkfall will have will be because they pull people from Eve, UO and other already sandbox games that are old and tired and they will be looking for something new. As I said if you read the whole way through. I am damn positive Darkfall will succeed in it target market. Hell I will be playing it right along with everyone else. I love to be challenged. But I am also not blind to the fact that the market share that darkfall takes if it is as good as they say it is is not big enough that another studio can compete with darkfall and both be financially viable.
Sure darkfall succeeds everyone runs out to make a new free loot pvp on the cheap over 8 years. Will they be able to take away darkfalls users... maybe in 8 years. But anything short of on the scale of darkfall is going to be labled a darkfall clone and fail. If it has enough success to siphon players from darkfall then both will end up in trouble.
As stated they may be able to reach 200-500k if they are lucky based on if they can pull away enough players from various other titles out today. Some of those numbers of course will be higher day one but may dwindle as more people experience the harshness of the world and decide it's not for them. Say at cruising speed they can maintain 200-500k though. If another title comes out that market share is going to get split or if the other product is better they may drop to below 100k. At some point they become financially unable to keep costs in check and have to close shop.
My comment is simply that the total player base for this genre of MMO is not large enough to support the level of competition you guys want from other products. There are so many WoW clones because they know that even if they get 200k subs another MMO can still succeed because there are still 11 million other subs they can steal from WoW. Anyone who would leave WoW for darkfall will do so on day one, if they havn't already.
There are not enough players that play this style of game to make it a financially sound risk to compete against the current champ of the genre. Anyone who could would do so at a risk that they would have to steal 50% or more of darkfalls player base to be financially sound.
If person A see's a family restaurant succeeding and then proceeds to build one their own that better than the previous one but there are only enough people in the area who eat at family restaurants to support one to be financially sound what happens. One fails or they both do. When I create a financial investment I would be safer going against the 3 fast food chains that have enough customers that even if i only steal 10% of their market we can both be financially sound. Which one is the better investment.
That is why WoW clones exist and will continue into the forseeable future.
Gom276 Prolific MMO player Just can't say no to any mmo
I am excited to try out darkfall, but I do not in anyway think that any success darkfall has will change the current state of MMO's, the only game that has a chance to change anything is the game that pulls away 40% or more of WoW's market share.
incorrect.
If they can prove that enough people exist outside of the WoW/Halo market then other small dev teams will be motivated to develope games for other markets instead of trying to "pull away 40% of WoW's market share."
Again, you are falling for fake arguments. They don't matter, they don't help anything, and they don't solve anything. Sales numbers mean nothing when taken at face value. If you look at Clerks vs Batman: The Dark Night then Clerks is a failure. If you realize that Clerks only cost 10,000 to make... all of a sudden making a couple hundred thousand dollars doesn't look so bad, does it?
It's the mentality of "if the most popular game doesn't lose half it's subs this new game is a failure" that is the problem right now. If it was a billion dollar game that REQUIRED that ammount of success... then yes... your argument is valid. Something tells me that Darkfall will not require "40% of WoW's market share" to be a financial success.
And success with a nitche of the market with something cheap (relative) will inspire other small teams to do the same... thus... the point of the OP.
No any success that Darkfall will have will be because they pull people from Eve, UO and other already sandbox games that are old and tired and they will be looking for something new. As I said if you read the whole way through. I am damn positive Darkfall will succeed in it target market. Hell I will be playing it right along with everyone else. I love to be challenged. But I am also not blind to the fact that the market share that darkfall takes if it is as good as they say it is is not big enough that another studio can compete with darkfall and both be financially viable.
Sure darkfall succeeds everyone runs out to make a new free loot pvp on the cheap over 8 years. Will they be able to take away darkfalls users... maybe in 8 years. But anything short of on the scale of darkfall is going to be labled a darkfall clone and fail. If it has enough success to siphon players from darkfall then both will end up in trouble.
As stated they may be able to reach 200-500k if they are lucky based on if they can pull away enough players from various other titles out today. Some of those numbers of course will be higher day one but may dwindle as more people experience the harshness of the world and decide it's not for them. Say at cruising speed they can maintain 200-500k though. If another title comes out that market share is going to get split or if the other product is better they may drop to below 100k. At some point they become financially unable to keep costs in check and have to close shop.
My comment is simply that the total player base for this genre of MMO is not large enough to support the level of competition you guys want from other products. There are so many WoW clones because they know that even if they get 200k subs another MMO can still succeed because there are still 11 million other subs they can steal from WoW. Anyone who would leave WoW for darkfall will do so on day one, if they havn't already.
There are not enough players that play this style of game to make it a financially sound risk to compete against the current champ of the genre. Anyone who could would do so at a risk that they would have to steal 50% or more of darkfalls player base to be financially sound.
If person A see's a family restaurant succeeding and then proceeds to build one their own that better than the previous one but there are only enough people in the area who eat at family restaurants to support one to be financially sound what happens. One fails or they both do. When I create a financial investment I would be safer going against the 3 fast food chains that have enough customers that even if i only steal 10% of their market we can both be financially sound. Which one is the better investment.
That is why WoW clones exist and will continue into the forseeable future.
Perhaps you are right and Darkfall will pull most people away from EVE and UO (hell I have even played EVE since 2004, but I also played WoW and yes I enjoyed it at the start) , but I think you are badly underestimating all the people currently playing WoW who are on the lookout for something new.
If Darkfall delivers on its features and the word spreads there might be a lot of people coming from WoW just to give it a try , what if half of those people, hell even just a quarter of those people stay and find a new game, a new playstyle, a new world in Darkfall? This would be significant enough for other small dev teams or perhaps even bigger ones to stop and think: An MMO like this can be succesfull, there is a market for these games.
If this happens many things can change for the MMO World, because let us be honoust, we do need a change, dont we? We have seen WoW clone afther WoW clone, its time for something new.
Let us hope, fainboys - haters and everyone else alike - that Darkfall succeeds, it can only mean good things for the genre!
First of all I have no idea why anyone is aruing over a game that hasn't even been released nor is there any signs of prerelease ordering of any kind two weeks before its scheduled launch. Although not a major concern, that's still a concern for me personally. (Please no arugments on that).
Secondly whats wrong with liking or at least having an interest in what this game proposes to deliver? So we can't like the way a game sounds now because one of you thinks it won't work? And because someone finds the features appealing to them they are a fanboi? Explain to me how you can be a fanboi for game that isn't even live yet? What the hell is wrong with finding a game that sounds fun and being anxious about it? If you don't liek it, fine. Don't play it. But don't come in here and bash the game, bash the people interested in it and resort to name calling. Grow the **** up please. Thank you.
Lastly. why does every game's future depend on have to be associated with WoW? I played WoW for over a year, ran a medium sized guild that was very successful but I left WoW. I don't like WoW. I will never play WoW again. that being said i respect WoW. It's success is undeniable. But this notion that a starter game has to "pull" people from another game? The MMO market is huge and continues to grow at an astonishing rate. New MMO productions are announced and go live yearly. Look at the pre-release list on this website. But the idea that everyone has to bitchslap WoW to be a success is a joke.
I agree with many of the people that this game sounds very promising. If it lives up to many of the promises from the developers it could be a great game. Lets leave it at that and see what they deliver before the DF "fanbois" and other skeptics weigh in on its success or failure.
Comments
And you're full of shit.
THE PROBLEM WITH MMOS IS THEY ARE TRYING TO DO IT BETTER THAN WOW!
We have enough WoWs! Jesus Christ Almighty! Darkfall isn't going to be a huge success like WoW, but it's still gonna be successful if it does most of what it says correctly.
I don't want to play WoW. I've played it already. Give me something different! I WANT VARIETY!
and guess what...I'm not a whiny old crotchety guy who sits on their front porch and complains about things changing.
I was brought into the genre by WoW and Runescape. So I'm that terrible WoW kiddie that everyone talks about. I'm part of the game that's "ruining" the industry, but I don't want to play WoW anymore. I want something different.
I liked neocron and RF online better then WoW... can't wait to play DF.
And you're full of shit.
THE PROBLEM WITH MMOS IS THEY ARE TRYING TO DO IT BETTER THAN WOW!
We have enough WoWs! Jesus Christ Almighty! Darkfall isn't going to be a huge success like WoW, but it's still gonna be successful if it does most of what it says correctly.
I don't want to play WoW. I've played it already. Give me something different! I WANT VARIETY!
and guess what...I'm not a whiny old crotchety guy who sits on their front porch and complains about things changing.
I was brought into the genre by WoW and Runescape. So I'm that terrible WoW kiddie that everyone talks about. I'm part of the game that's "ruining" the industry, but I don't want to play WoW anymore. I want something different.
I actually think there are a lot of people like you Capn23, lurking in the dark possibly interested in Darkfall if it delivers, will be interesting to see what happens in the coming months.
I atleast have total confidence in the devs, it might be blind fate, but so be it!
good post OP, it's nice to read the posts of people who "get it", if only others had your perspective...
everyone benefits if a game like DF is highly successful as it would shake up the tired "wow clone" model the MMORPG genre is currently stuck in.
Well said, singsofdeath.
I doubt you will get any honest answers though.
I as well wonder where this type of attitude will lead to.
IF DarkFall does ultimately become a success... it will definitely be overcoming some very big obstacles.
It will be interesting to see if some of it's ardent supporters recognize what some of those obstacles may be, and if they will modify their tactics... or, if they choose... let the consequences be damned?
One way or the other it will make for an interesting analysis in the upcoming years.
Thanks and ya, I know people will not answer. Most likely because they have no answer.
But I agree, the coming weeks and then the months after DF's release will be highly interesting.
Edit: @hidden1: I know not all people supporting DF are like that. And I certainly hope that it's only a very loud minority that acts like it, or the community of this game is gonna be a surefire killer. That's also why I said 99% of the posts here. And not 99% of DF supporters.
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Well said, singsofdeath.
I doubt you will get any honest answers though.
I as well wonder where this type of attitude will lead to.
IF DarkFall does ultimately become a success... it will definitely be overcoming some very big obstacles.
It will be interesting to see if some of it's ardent supporters recognize what some of those obstacles may be, and if they will modify their tactics... or, if they choose... let the consequences be damned?
One way or the other it will make for an interesting analysis in the upcoming years.
Thanks and ya, I know people will not answer. Most likely because they have no answer.
But I agree, the coming weeks and then the months after DF's release will be highly interesting.
Edit: @hidden1: I know not all people supporting DF are like that. And I certainly hope that it's only a very loud minority that acts like it, or the community of this game is gonna be a surefire killer. That's also why I said 99% of the posts here. And not 99% of DF supporters.
I don't have an over inflated ego, but I am a fan of Darkfall, and hungry to play it.
FFXI for me.
You just hit level 70, put on that brand new gear you bought two levels ago and stuck in the locker. Looking good! Go out to get some exp and fun, get a stinky group, party-wipe and now you are naked because you DE-leveled to 69 and already sold your old gear off.
That is a penalty, and I miss that kind of character responsiblity.
*sniff* for good gaming penalties..
I must put FFXI in here also for a game where death sucks, FFXI is the only game I can really play, its been dumbed down a good amount but some of the old MMO feelings like the impact of death are still there. I even got lost two days ago in the game. I was on a firends character who had not done the map quest for an area and realized I had no idea where I was.
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I suspect that you are one of a very large group of people, much larger than most people on this site would imagine. All those people that bought AoC and WAR and eventually went back to WoW are all looking for the same thing, something different. And then of course there are all the people that waited to see if those games would take off and the people that would tag along to a new game at the drop of a hat if their friends did. I'm not saying DF will deliver the game these people want but the market for a new product is massive and getting more impatient. People do not want to play the same game for 5 years because no company is able to provide an alternative. As soon as somebody makes a viable alternative WoWs subs will fall off a cliff face.
I suspect that you are one of a very large group of people, much larger than most people on this site would imagine. All those people that bought AoC and WAR and eventually went back to WoW are all looking for the same thing, something different. And then of course there are all the people that waited to see if those games would take off and the people that would tag along to a new game at the drop of a hat if their friends did. I'm not saying DF will deliver the game these people want but the market for a new product is massive and getting more impatient. People do not want to play the same game for 5 years because no company is able to provide an alternative. As soon as somebody makes a viable alternative WoWs subs will fall off a cliff face.
"... WoW subs will fall off a cliff face." Like lemmings.
FFXI for me.
You just hit level 70, put on that brand new gear you bought two levels ago and stuck in the locker. Looking good! Go out to get some exp and fun, get a stinky group, party-wipe and now you are naked because you DE-leveled to 69 and already sold your old gear off.
That is a penalty, and I miss that kind of character responsiblity.
*sniff* for good gaming penalties..
I must put FFXI in here also for a game where death sucks, FFXI is the only game I can really play, its been dumbed down a good amount but some of the old MMO feelings like the impact of death are still there. I even got lost two days ago in the game. I was on a firends character who had not done the map quest for an area and realized I had no idea where I was.
I have a lot of respect for FFXI, and I agree with both of you on death stinging. I really enjoy that game as I have gone back to play it several times over the years. I think it is probably the best pure PvE MMO you can play, especially given the price. The interface is ass, but once you get over it, there is enough content to hold over even a serious player for a long time.
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I really feel like anyone who targets anyone but the general WoW/Halo public should be praised even if they don't do it perfectly. I'm not just talking about making games more hardcore... but also for making games that are really just goofy.
I just played the 360 game "Conan." I'd never heard anything about it and it was aimed at a very different crowd than I'm used to... but it was fun as hell. Praise unto the devs for making a fun game without it being grey/brown gritty realism.
Same goes for MMOs. I don't want instances and penalty-free PvP. I want something DIFFERENT. Seeing as most devs have too big a budget and too much to lose you pretty much only get one flavor... over and over and over and over.
It's time people start taking chances.
I suspect that you are one of a very large group of people, much larger than most people on this site would imagine. All those people that bought AoC and WAR and eventually went back to WoW are all looking for the same thing, something different. And then of course there are all the people that waited to see if those games would take off and the people that would tag along to a new game at the drop of a hat if their friends did. I'm not saying DF will deliver the game these people want but the market for a new product is massive and getting more impatient. People do not want to play the same game for 5 years because no company is able to provide an alternative. As soon as somebody makes a viable alternative WoWs subs will fall off a cliff face.
"... WoW subs will fall off a cliff face." Like lemmings.
This is the wrong mentality. If you look at everone who is available to play any MMO like a pie that is divided up by what would be their perfect mmo it would still have WoW as the largest chunk. That's not a bad thing. I'll NEVER say what you love is wrong. If you love nothing more than playing minesweeper all day, that's great!
Now, there is a slice of that pie who want something with open PvP yadda yadda yadda that would be satisfied with the Darkfall that has been promised. THAT SLICE SHOULD BE EXCITED THAT THEY ARE GETTING A GAME THAT IS AIMED AT THEM. They SHOULD NOT be pointing fingers at the large WoW chunk and saying "you will now die because I found something better" They SHOULD be reaching out to the other people on their slice and telling them all about it.
In other genres: If I'm loving Left 4 Dead (shooter where it's you and up to 3 friends against a city full of zombies) I'm going to tell my friends who also love shooters and co-op games that they should try it. I'm not going to call my friend who only plays sports games and demand that he break his sports games in half and buy this immediatly because its quality dicates the end of everything he has prevously enjoyed.
I also don't expect my sports game junkie friend to call me to tell me that Left 4 Dead sucks and that I shouldn't be playing it. I should be playing the games that he plays and that Left 4 Dead is a failure.
There is a big difference between people who realize this and people who don't.
I've already emailed a bunch of my oldschool EQ friends to let them know about Darkfall. Not because it's a garanteed homerun... but because it sounds like something they should also be researching... especially since most of them have been out of the MMO scene for so long.
I'm not posting on WoW forums that their game is about to be killed by Darkfall. If WoW players want to try Darkfall... by all means I'll tell you everything I know. I'm not about to go in there guns blazing trying to be some kind of missionary.
Don't know about anyone else in here but if Darkfall does deliver what Aventurine promises.. I'll be the first to unsubscribe to my WoW account.
This is another one of those "I tried to fit in and failed, so it must not be my fault" posts. We get plenty of these topics on the DF newcomer forums. My responses are in italics.
And the last word:
The Darkfall community may not be for everyone. Most of forumfall consists of adults and experienced gamers. The mods give us a lot of leeway in discussions because they know we are mature enough to handle it. Our OT section isn't filled with "wats ur favorite anime" or "whats your first crush xD" topics. We discuss world affairs, touchy controversies, and even many conspiracy theories. This community is definitely different. But anyone can adapt. I know an 11yr old kid from a guild of mine who fits in perfectly with the DF community. This game naturally caters to a crowd with balls. That is Forumfall.
Seems my first post was lost on a lot of you. The idea in the OP was that if DF comes out it will be so profound as to change the course of all MMO's. This is simply not true. There has already been a growth of the industry away from the UO's and early sandbox, open world, PvP, free loot games. The industry evolved to something of a more instant gratificationformat of the wow games with penalty free pvp, instanced "your the hero story modes" and quest based leveling systems.
I was not saying that MMO's like wow are for people who play tetris i am saying the system intself and it's features cater to people who want that instant gratification. People want to level, they want to look cool and unique from everyone else, they want to fight other people but not if it means they have to pay for it with hard earned gear or death penalties. The reason WoW was successful was because they did exactly that. They asked the question. Looking at todays MMO's (EQ, UO etc...) what do they do right and what do they do wrong? And what don;t they do at all. Then how can we then make this all appealing to broad audience. And they did just that.
I was one of the OU people who thought WoW was pathetic kiddie game. I hated it with every fiber of my being. I was an EQ, EQ2 and UO player and loved them with all my heart. I did not even touch WoW until 2006. Only because my younger brother gave me the game for christmas. I installed it and... as much as i hate to admit it... I had fun... I had lot and lots of fun. I then tried other MMO's even korean free ones I used to degrade constantly. And I had fun. I was able to do much more in less time. I was able to accomplish things without the stress and worry of the old UO world. While they were not neccessarily as deep or involved as UO they offered good old wholesome fun. Something I had forgotten about playing UO. Which had become like a second job for me. I played it because it was part of my life and involved. But it was not neccessarily fun.
I am excited to try out darkfall, but I do not in anyway think that any success darkfall has will change the current state of MMO's, the only game that has a chance to change anything is the game that pulls away 40% or more of WoW's market share.
There is not enough of the current player base that has grown up with this instant gratification system that can live with the harsh world that darkfall offers. They have grown up with a system that gave them everything they wanted at their finger tips. If Darkfall had any chance of doing that EVE would have already taken at least a larger market share than it has. The genre of harsh worlds of grinding madness and death around everycorner to whipe out all your hard work just wont appeal to them and their need for quick fast easy gratification.
Anyone claiming or wishing for anything other than a marginal success is fooling themselves. Will Darkfall succeed in it's endeavour to serve the community it seeks to? Hell YEAH! Will it come close to changing the MMO universe? No way in HELL! Anyone wishing or hoping for that is the "crotchety old man sitting on his pourch (with his shotgun)."
Gom276
Prolific MMO player
Just can't say no to any mmo
Kudos to the OP!
Very well written and I could not agree more.
It's nice to find a good read after wading through so much nonsense cluttering these forums.
incorrect.
If they can prove that enough people exist outside of the WoW/Halo market then other small dev teams will be motivated to develope games for other markets instead of trying to "pull away 40% of WoW's market share."
Again, you are falling for fake arguments. They don't matter, they don't help anything, and they don't solve anything. Sales numbers mean nothing when taken at face value. If you look at Clerks vs Batman: The Dark Night then Clerks is a failure. If you realize that Clerks only cost 10,000 to make... all of a sudden making a couple hundred thousand dollars doesn't look so bad, does it?
It's the mentality of "if the most popular game doesn't lose half it's subs this new game is a failure" that is the problem right now. If it was a billion dollar game that REQUIRED that ammount of success... then yes... your argument is valid. Something tells me that Darkfall will not require "40% of WoW's market share" to be a financial success.
And success with a nitche of the market with something cheap (relative) will inspire other small teams to do the same... thus... the point of the OP.
incorrect.
If they can prove that enough people exist outside of the WoW/Halo market then other small dev teams will be motivated to develope games for other markets instead of trying to "pull away 40% of WoW's market share."
Again, you are falling for fake arguments. They don't matter, they don't help anything, and they don't solve anything. Sales numbers mean nothing when taken at face value. If you look at Clerks vs Batman: The Dark Night then Clerks is a failure. If you realize that Clerks only cost 10,000 to make... all of a sudden making a couple hundred thousand dollars doesn't look so bad, does it?
It's the mentality of "if the most popular game doesn't lose half it's subs this new game is a failure" that is the problem right now. If it was a billion dollar game that REQUIRED that ammount of success... then yes... your argument is valid. Something tells me that Darkfall will not require "40% of WoW's market share" to be a financial success.
And success with a nitche of the market with something cheap (relative) will inspire other small teams to do the same... thus... the point of the OP.
No any success that Darkfall will have will be because they pull people from Eve, UO and other already sandbox games that are old and tired and they will be looking for something new. As I said if you read the whole way through. I am damn positive Darkfall will succeed in it target market. Hell I will be playing it right along with everyone else. I love to be challenged. But I am also not blind to the fact that the market share that darkfall takes if it is as good as they say it is is not big enough that another studio can compete with darkfall and both be financially viable.
Sure darkfall succeeds everyone runs out to make a new free loot pvp on the cheap over 8 years. Will they be able to take away darkfalls users... maybe in 8 years. But anything short of on the scale of darkfall is going to be labled a darkfall clone and fail. If it has enough success to siphon players from darkfall then both will end up in trouble.
As stated they may be able to reach 200-500k if they are lucky based on if they can pull away enough players from various other titles out today. Some of those numbers of course will be higher day one but may dwindle as more people experience the harshness of the world and decide it's not for them. Say at cruising speed they can maintain 200-500k though. If another title comes out that market share is going to get split or if the other product is better they may drop to below 100k. At some point they become financially unable to keep costs in check and have to close shop.
My comment is simply that the total player base for this genre of MMO is not large enough to support the level of competition you guys want from other products. There are so many WoW clones because they know that even if they get 200k subs another MMO can still succeed because there are still 11 million other subs they can steal from WoW. Anyone who would leave WoW for darkfall will do so on day one, if they havn't already.
There are not enough players that play this style of game to make it a financially sound risk to compete against the current champ of the genre. Anyone who could would do so at a risk that they would have to steal 50% or more of darkfalls player base to be financially sound.
If person A see's a family restaurant succeeding and then proceeds to build one their own that better than the previous one but there are only enough people in the area who eat at family restaurants to support one to be financially sound what happens. One fails or they both do. When I create a financial investment I would be safer going against the 3 fast food chains that have enough customers that even if i only steal 10% of their market we can both be financially sound. Which one is the better investment.
That is why WoW clones exist and will continue into the forseeable future.
Gom276
Prolific MMO player
Just can't say no to any mmo
incorrect.
If they can prove that enough people exist outside of the WoW/Halo market then other small dev teams will be motivated to develope games for other markets instead of trying to "pull away 40% of WoW's market share."
Again, you are falling for fake arguments. They don't matter, they don't help anything, and they don't solve anything. Sales numbers mean nothing when taken at face value. If you look at Clerks vs Batman: The Dark Night then Clerks is a failure. If you realize that Clerks only cost 10,000 to make... all of a sudden making a couple hundred thousand dollars doesn't look so bad, does it?
It's the mentality of "if the most popular game doesn't lose half it's subs this new game is a failure" that is the problem right now. If it was a billion dollar game that REQUIRED that ammount of success... then yes... your argument is valid. Something tells me that Darkfall will not require "40% of WoW's market share" to be a financial success.
And success with a nitche of the market with something cheap (relative) will inspire other small teams to do the same... thus... the point of the OP.
No any success that Darkfall will have will be because they pull people from Eve, UO and other already sandbox games that are old and tired and they will be looking for something new. As I said if you read the whole way through. I am damn positive Darkfall will succeed in it target market. Hell I will be playing it right along with everyone else. I love to be challenged. But I am also not blind to the fact that the market share that darkfall takes if it is as good as they say it is is not big enough that another studio can compete with darkfall and both be financially viable.
Sure darkfall succeeds everyone runs out to make a new free loot pvp on the cheap over 8 years. Will they be able to take away darkfalls users... maybe in 8 years. But anything short of on the scale of darkfall is going to be labled a darkfall clone and fail. If it has enough success to siphon players from darkfall then both will end up in trouble.
As stated they may be able to reach 200-500k if they are lucky based on if they can pull away enough players from various other titles out today. Some of those numbers of course will be higher day one but may dwindle as more people experience the harshness of the world and decide it's not for them. Say at cruising speed they can maintain 200-500k though. If another title comes out that market share is going to get split or if the other product is better they may drop to below 100k. At some point they become financially unable to keep costs in check and have to close shop.
My comment is simply that the total player base for this genre of MMO is not large enough to support the level of competition you guys want from other products. There are so many WoW clones because they know that even if they get 200k subs another MMO can still succeed because there are still 11 million other subs they can steal from WoW. Anyone who would leave WoW for darkfall will do so on day one, if they havn't already.
There are not enough players that play this style of game to make it a financially sound risk to compete against the current champ of the genre. Anyone who could would do so at a risk that they would have to steal 50% or more of darkfalls player base to be financially sound.
If person A see's a family restaurant succeeding and then proceeds to build one their own that better than the previous one but there are only enough people in the area who eat at family restaurants to support one to be financially sound what happens. One fails or they both do. When I create a financial investment I would be safer going against the 3 fast food chains that have enough customers that even if i only steal 10% of their market we can both be financially sound. Which one is the better investment.
That is why WoW clones exist and will continue into the forseeable future.
Perhaps you are right and Darkfall will pull most people away from EVE and UO (hell I have even played EVE since 2004, but I also played WoW and yes I enjoyed it at the start) , but I think you are badly underestimating all the people currently playing WoW who are on the lookout for something new.
If Darkfall delivers on its features and the word spreads there might be a lot of people coming from WoW just to give it a try , what if half of those people, hell even just a quarter of those people stay and find a new game, a new playstyle, a new world in Darkfall? This would be significant enough for other small dev teams or perhaps even bigger ones to stop and think: An MMO like this can be succesfull, there is a market for these games.
If this happens many things can change for the MMO World, because let us be honoust, we do need a change, dont we? We have seen WoW clone afther WoW clone, its time for something new.
Let us hope, fainboys - haters and everyone else alike - that Darkfall succeeds, it can only mean good things for the genre!
First of all I have no idea why anyone is aruing over a game that hasn't even been released nor is there any signs of prerelease ordering of any kind two weeks before its scheduled launch. Although not a major concern, that's still a concern for me personally. (Please no arugments on that).
Secondly whats wrong with liking or at least having an interest in what this game proposes to deliver? So we can't like the way a game sounds now because one of you thinks it won't work? And because someone finds the features appealing to them they are a fanboi? Explain to me how you can be a fanboi for game that isn't even live yet? What the hell is wrong with finding a game that sounds fun and being anxious about it? If you don't liek it, fine. Don't play it. But don't come in here and bash the game, bash the people interested in it and resort to name calling. Grow the **** up please. Thank you.
Lastly. why does every game's future depend on have to be associated with WoW? I played WoW for over a year, ran a medium sized guild that was very successful but I left WoW. I don't like WoW. I will never play WoW again. that being said i respect WoW. It's success is undeniable. But this notion that a starter game has to "pull" people from another game? The MMO market is huge and continues to grow at an astonishing rate. New MMO productions are announced and go live yearly. Look at the pre-release list on this website. But the idea that everyone has to bitchslap WoW to be a success is a joke.
I agree with many of the people that this game sounds very promising. If it lives up to many of the promises from the developers it could be a great game. Lets leave it at that and see what they deliver before the DF "fanbois" and other skeptics weigh in on its success or failure.