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I've come to a conclusion

ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931

It's become obvious that some people will say, and perhaps believe, anything they like in order to try to save or protect their online happy place.  Some may get paid to do it, others may be staff doing it in their spare time, and I'm sure many are just players that don't want to lose their virtual experience.

I'll be honest, I didn't want to lose my virtual experience either.  Who does?  MMOs create emotional attachments and people get invested in their progress.  Nobody wants to lose this, but would you lie to protect it?

Would you say that the loot vehicles offer no advantages when information has been clearly posted saying that they do?  Would you say that SOE can be counted on to listen to their players when time and time again they have failed to do so?  Would you suggest that one example of listening to a players request could possibly offset all of the deceptions and broken promises of the past 5 years?  Would you say that loot cards do not give player buffs? 

How 'bout this one:  Would you be happy that SOE is squeezing large amounts of cash from fellow gamers via their TCG game of chance because it means you may get some of the content you've been hoping for?

Would you pull up laws from another country to try to defend actions taking place in the United States?  Would you say that the NGE and the TCG have been well received, and that it's only a vocal minority that complain about them?

Some people would.  Every one of these examples can be found somewhere on these boards and more.  We can provide these people over and over again with factual information.  We can provide quotes from devs, from Smed or from other internet sources to back it up, and it won't matter.  Why not?  Because the truth does not fit with their agenda. 

Hopefully I'll remember this and spare myself some frustration in future discussions lol; I guess we'll see :).

 

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Comments

  • ScalebaneScalebane Member UncommonPosts: 1,883
    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    It's become obvious that some people will say, and perhaps believe, anything they like in order to try to save or protect their online happy place.  Some may get paid to do it, others may be staff doing it in their spare time, and I'm sure many are just players that don't want to lose their virtual experience.
    I'll be honest, I didn't want to lose my virtual experience either.  Who does?  MMOs create emotional attachments and people get invested in their progress.  Nobody wants to lose this, but would you lie to protect it?
    Would you say that the loot vehicles offer no advantages when information has been clearly posted saying that they do?  Would you say that SOE can be counted on to listen to their players when time and time again they have failed to do so?  Would you suggest that one example of listening to a players request could possibly offset all of the deceptions and broken promises of the past 5 years?  Would you say that loot cards do not give player buffs? 
    How 'bout this one:  Would you be happy that SOE is squeezing large amounts of cash from fellow gamers via their TCG game of chance because it means you may get some of the content you've been hoping for?
    Would you pull up laws from another country to try to defend actions taking place in the United States?  Would you say that the NGE and the TCG have been well received, and that it's only a vocal minority that complain about them?
    Some people would.  Every one of these examples can be found somewhere on these boards and more.  We can provide these people over and over again with factual information.  We can provide quotes from devs, from Smed or from other internet sources to back it up, and it won't matter.  Why not?  Because the truth does not fit with their agenda. 
    Hopefully I'll remember this and spare myself some frustration in future discussions lol; I guess we'll see :).
     

     

    yeah its sad your world got taken from you, but why put that punishment on newer people who enjoy the game, yes i know its strange that people can enjoy a game no matter all the bad things that have happened but its true.  Does it really bother you that much? why can't they just be happy playing the game they enjoy at this point, many many years later, did they ask you to protect them for SOE? i mean really if i see anyone here defend the game or say the like it they get trashed and called names, if i see anyone post negative comments they get trashed, your all guilty, hell i'm guilty of it at times. 

    Why do topics keep getting locked? because even though you are good about discussing things, others run in screaming viral marketer and fanboi and others run in screaming omg hater, maybe when people grow up some this place won't have to be regulated so much.  There are rules here, people shouldn't cry if they get in trouble for not following them.

    I'm sure there are other places to post if they feel the need to cuss and argue and call names.

    All i'll say is who's truth?  i read around here a lot and people seem to have their own truth for everything. same with facts, everyone says their facts, but they are nothing but opinion.

    image

    "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
    - Lewis Thomas

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by Scalebane

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    It's become obvious that some people will say, and perhaps believe, anything they like in order to try to save or protect their online happy place.  Some may get paid to do it, others may be staff doing it in their spare time, and I'm sure many are just players that don't want to lose their virtual experience.
    I'll be honest, I didn't want to lose my virtual experience either.  Who does?  MMOs create emotional attachments and people get invested in their progress.  Nobody wants to lose this, but would you lie to protect it?
    Would you say that the loot vehicles offer no advantages when information has been clearly posted saying that they do?  Would you say that SOE can be counted on to listen to their players when time and time again they have failed to do so?  Would you suggest that one example of listening to a players request could possibly offset all of the deceptions and broken promises of the past 5 years?  Would you say that loot cards do not give player buffs? 
    How 'bout this one:  Would you be happy that SOE is squeezing large amounts of cash from fellow gamers via their TCG game of chance because it means you may get some of the content you've been hoping for?
    Would you pull up laws from another country to try to defend actions taking place in the United States?  Would you say that the NGE and the TCG have been well received, and that it's only a vocal minority that complain about them?
    Some people would.  Every one of these examples can be found somewhere on these boards and more.  We can provide these people over and over again with factual information.  We can provide quotes from devs, from Smed or from other internet sources to back it up, and it won't matter.  Why not?  Because the truth does not fit with their agenda. 
    Hopefully I'll remember this and spare myself some frustration in future discussions lol; I guess we'll see :).
     

     

    yeah its sad your world got taken from you, but why put that punishment on newer people who enjoy the game, yes i know its strange that people can enjoy a game no matter all the bad things that have happened but its true.  Does it really bother you that much? why can't they just be happy playing the game they enjoy at this point, many many years later, did they ask you to protect them for SOE? i mean really if i see anyone here defend the game or say the like it they get trashed and called names, if i see anyone post negative comments they get trashed, your all guilty, hell i'm guilty of it at times. 

    Why do topics keep getting locked? because even though you are good about discussing things, others run in screaming viral marketer and fanboi and others run in screaming omg hater, maybe when people grow up some this place won't have to be regulated so much.  There are rules here, people shouldn't cry if they get in trouble for not following them.

    I'm sure there are other places to post if they feel the need to cuss and argue and call names.

    All i'll say is who's truth?  i read around here a lot and people seem to have their own truth for everything. same with facts, everyone says their facts, but they are nothing but opinion.

    Oh hi Scalebane :)  Actually I'm glad people are having fun in SWG.

     

    Also, I don't have a problem with any locked posts.  I don't think I mentioned anything about that?  Maybe that's a carry over from another conversation that I'm not part of.

    I'm also talking about actually lying to preserve something you enjoy.  You know like "the loot cards do not give players any ingame advantages."  "SWG doesn't have a population problem."  "The new game changes are being well received."  Simple obvious things like that.  Some people will say them, and if you point out simple facts, they won't hear you, will change the subject, or will come back with something like, "Smed does NOTsleep with sheep!"  Erm, who said he did?  Lol, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

    As for, "whose truth?"  I'm a pretty existential guy actually, post-modern and all that.  Different points of view can all have equal validity, but this doesn't justify outright lying.  Either the loot cards give advantages or they don't, for instance.  Saying that they don't, isn't a point of view.  It's a lie.  Saying that there is no population problem isn't a point of view.  It's a lie.  People have been hollering about the empty servers for between 2 and 3 years now.  Smed promised to fast track server mergers because of the problem, and now they're finally doing transfers. 

    I've just decided that some people find accurate information threatening, and they'll say or do anything to try to deny things that really aren't that hard for people to see.

    I'm thinking out loud that debating with these folks is a waste of my time and energy.  I really don't think it takes a brain surgeon to spot when someone repeatedly says things that are obvious fabrications.  This should make some SOE defenders happy actually lol.  They can pretty much say what they like at this point, and I'm not likely to respond.  I think it's all just so obviously silly at this point that nothing more needs to be said.  Hopefully that clarifies things a bit :)

    I also think some people (very few current players mind you) will indeed keep lying to try to keep their game afloat, and I think SOE will keep using these people until the whole thing inevitably implodes.  Ah well, what can ya do eh?  It's bound to happen, and reason won't make a difference apparently, so I think I should just sit back and let nature take it's course.  When you fight reality, it always wins in the end, and the longer you fight the bigger ass-kicking you usually get lol.

     

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Scalebane

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    It's become obvious that some people will say, and perhaps believe, anything they like in order to try to save or protect their online happy place.  Some may get paid to do it, others may be staff doing it in their spare time, and I'm sure many are just players that don't want to lose their virtual experience.
    I'll be honest, I didn't want to lose my virtual experience either.  Who does?  MMOs create emotional attachments and people get invested in their progress.  Nobody wants to lose this, but would you lie to protect it?
    Would you say that the loot vehicles offer no advantages when information has been clearly posted saying that they do?  Would you say that SOE can be counted on to listen to their players when time and time again they have failed to do so?  Would you suggest that one example of listening to a players request could possibly offset all of the deceptions and broken promises of the past 5 years?  Would you say that loot cards do not give player buffs? 
    How 'bout this one:  Would you be happy that SOE is squeezing large amounts of cash from fellow gamers via their TCG game of chance because it means you may get some of the content you've been hoping for?
    Would you pull up laws from another country to try to defend actions taking place in the United States?  Would you say that the NGE and the TCG have been well received, and that it's only a vocal minority that complain about them?
    Some people would.  Every one of these examples can be found somewhere on these boards and more.  We can provide these people over and over again with factual information.  We can provide quotes from devs, from Smed or from other internet sources to back it up, and it won't matter.  Why not?  Because the truth does not fit with their agenda. 
    Hopefully I'll remember this and spare myself some frustration in future discussions lol; I guess we'll see :).
     

     

    yeah its sad your world got taken from you, but why put that punishment on newer people who enjoy the game, yes i know its strange that people can enjoy a game no matter all the bad things that have happened but its true.  Does it really bother you that much? why can't they just be happy playing the game they enjoy at this point, many many years later, did they ask you to protect them for SOE? i mean really if i see anyone here defend the game or say the like it they get trashed and called names, if i see anyone post negative comments they get trashed, your all guilty, hell i'm guilty of it at times. 

    Why do topics keep getting locked? because even though you are good about discussing things, others run in screaming viral marketer and fanboi and others run in screaming omg hater, maybe when people grow up some this place won't have to be regulated so much.  There are rules here, people shouldn't cry if they get in trouble for not following them.

    I'm sure there are other places to post if they feel the need to cuss and argue and call names.

    All i'll say is who's truth?  i read around here a lot and people seem to have their own truth for everything. same with facts, everyone says their facts, but they are nothing but opinion.

    Oh hi Scalebane :)  Actually I'm glad people are having fun in SWG.

     

    Also, I don't have a problem with any locked posts.  I don't think I mentioned anything about that?  Maybe that's a carry over from another conversation that I'm not part of.

    I'm also talking about actually lying to preserve something you enjoy.  You know like "the loot cards do not give players any ingame advantages."  "SWG doesn't have a population problem."  "The new game changes are being well received."  Simple obvious things like that.  Some people will say them, and if you point out simple facts, they won't hear you, will change the subject, or will come back with something like, "Smed does NOTsleep with sheep!"  Erm, who said he did?  Lol, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

    As for, "whose truth?"  I'm a pretty existential guy actually, post-modern and all that.  Different points of view can all have equal validity, but this doesn't justify outright lying.  Either the loot cards give advantages or they don't, for instance.  Saying that they don't, isn't a point of view.  It's a lie.  Saying that there is no population problem isn't a point of view.  It's a lie.  People have been hollering about the empty servers for between 2 and 3 years now.  Smed promised to fast track server mergers because of the problem, and now they're finally doing transfers. 

    I've just decided that some people find accurate information threatening, and they'll say or do anything to try to deny things that really aren't that hard for people to see.

    I'm thinking out loud that debating with these folks is a waste of my time and energy.  I really don't think it takes a brain surgeon to spot when someone repeatedly says things that are obvious fabrications.  This should make some SOE defenders happy actually lol.  They can pretty much say what they like at this point, and I'm not likely to respond.  I think it's all just so obviously silly at this point that nothing more needs to be said.  Hopefully that clarifies things a bit :)

    I also think some people (very few current players mind you) will indeed keep lying to try to keep their game afloat, and I think SOE will keep using these people until the whole thing inevitably implodes.  Ah well, what can ya do eh?  It's bound to happen, and reason won't make a difference apparently, so I think I should just sit back and let nature take it's course.  When you fight reality, it always wins in the end, and the longer you fight the bigger ass-kicking you usually get lol.

     

     

    I usually agree with you bro, but if different points of view have equal validity, then there is no truth, then there is no such thing as lying -- that is why post-modernism collapses in upon itself in its own self contradiction.

     

     

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Scalebane

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    It's become obvious that some people will say, and perhaps believe, anything they like in order to try to save or protect their online happy place.  Some may get paid to do it, others may be staff doing it in their spare time, and I'm sure many are just players that don't want to lose their virtual experience.
    I'll be honest, I didn't want to lose my virtual experience either.  Who does?  MMOs create emotional attachments and people get invested in their progress.  Nobody wants to lose this, but would you lie to protect it?
    Would you say that the loot vehicles offer no advantages when information has been clearly posted saying that they do?  Would you say that SOE can be counted on to listen to their players when time and time again they have failed to do so?  Would you suggest that one example of listening to a players request could possibly offset all of the deceptions and broken promises of the past 5 years?  Would you say that loot cards do not give player buffs? 
    How 'bout this one:  Would you be happy that SOE is squeezing large amounts of cash from fellow gamers via their TCG game of chance because it means you may get some of the content you've been hoping for?
    Would you pull up laws from another country to try to defend actions taking place in the United States?  Would you say that the NGE and the TCG have been well received, and that it's only a vocal minority that complain about them?
    Some people would.  Every one of these examples can be found somewhere on these boards and more.  We can provide these people over and over again with factual information.  We can provide quotes from devs, from Smed or from other internet sources to back it up, and it won't matter.  Why not?  Because the truth does not fit with their agenda. 
    Hopefully I'll remember this and spare myself some frustration in future discussions lol; I guess we'll see :).
     

     

    yeah its sad your world got taken from you, but why put that punishment on newer people who enjoy the game, yes i know its strange that people can enjoy a game no matter all the bad things that have happened but its true.  Does it really bother you that much? why can't they just be happy playing the game they enjoy at this point, many many years later, did they ask you to protect them for SOE? i mean really if i see anyone here defend the game or say the like it they get trashed and called names, if i see anyone post negative comments they get trashed, your all guilty, hell i'm guilty of it at times. 

    Why do topics keep getting locked? because even though you are good about discussing things, others run in screaming viral marketer and fanboi and others run in screaming omg hater, maybe when people grow up some this place won't have to be regulated so much.  There are rules here, people shouldn't cry if they get in trouble for not following them.

    I'm sure there are other places to post if they feel the need to cuss and argue and call names.

    All i'll say is who's truth?  i read around here a lot and people seem to have their own truth for everything. same with facts, everyone says their facts, but they are nothing but opinion.

    Oh hi Scalebane :)  Actually I'm glad people are having fun in SWG.

     

    Also, I don't have a problem with any locked posts.  I don't think I mentioned anything about that?  Maybe that's a carry over from another conversation that I'm not part of.

    I'm also talking about actually lying to preserve something you enjoy.  You know like "the loot cards do not give players any ingame advantages."  "SWG doesn't have a population problem."  "The new game changes are being well received."  Simple obvious things like that.  Some people will say them, and if you point out simple facts, they won't hear you, will change the subject, or will come back with something like, "Smed does NOTsleep with sheep!"  Erm, who said he did?  Lol, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

    As for, "whose truth?"  I'm a pretty existential guy actually, post-modern and all that.  Different points of view can all have equal validity, but this doesn't justify outright lying.  Either the loot cards give advantages or they don't, for instance.  Saying that they don't, isn't a point of view.  It's a lie.  Saying that there is no population problem isn't a point of view.  It's a lie.  People have been hollering about the empty servers for between 2 and 3 years now.  Smed promised to fast track server mergers because of the problem, and now they're finally doing transfers. 

    I've just decided that some people find accurate information threatening, and they'll say or do anything to try to deny things that really aren't that hard for people to see.

    I'm thinking out loud that debating with these folks is a waste of my time and energy.  I really don't think it takes a brain surgeon to spot when someone repeatedly says things that are obvious fabrications.  This should make some SOE defenders happy actually lol.  They can pretty much say what they like at this point, and I'm not likely to respond.  I think it's all just so obviously silly at this point that nothing more needs to be said.  Hopefully that clarifies things a bit :)

    I also think some people (very few current players mind you) will indeed keep lying to try to keep their game afloat, and I think SOE will keep using these people until the whole thing inevitably implodes.  Ah well, what can ya do eh?  It's bound to happen, and reason won't make a difference apparently, so I think I should just sit back and let nature take it's course.  When you fight reality, it always wins in the end, and the longer you fight the bigger ass-kicking you usually get lol.

     

     

    I usually agree with you bro, but if different points of view have equal validity, then there is no truth, then there is no such thing as lying -- that is why post-modernism collapses in upon itself in its own self contradiction.

     

     

    Hiya Fish!  Sweet, a philosophical dialogue :).  I'm with you actually.  I think there are certain unalterable truths.  Post-modernism for me (heh how post-modern is that?) is more that there is more than one valid point of view at times.  I want to emphasize at times. 

     

    Here's an example.  What tastes better, chocolate pudding or vanilla?  There's some subjective reality going on there.  Acknowledging subjective reality for me, isn't an outright dismissal of objective truth.

    What's fun?  That's another subjective reality issue.  People can say, "SWG is fun!"  Cool, I believe them.  It's fun for them, no argument.

    However, when you say buffs don't...buff you, well that's just a lie.  What do you think of that?

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Scalebane

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    It's become obvious that some people will say, and perhaps believe, anything they like in order to try to save or protect their online happy place.  Some may get paid to do it, others may be staff doing it in their spare time, and I'm sure many are just players that don't want to lose their virtual experience.
    I'll be honest, I didn't want to lose my virtual experience either.  Who does?  MMOs create emotional attachments and people get invested in their progress.  Nobody wants to lose this, but would you lie to protect it?
    Would you say that the loot vehicles offer no advantages when information has been clearly posted saying that they do?  Would you say that SOE can be counted on to listen to their players when time and time again they have failed to do so?  Would you suggest that one example of listening to a players request could possibly offset all of the deceptions and broken promises of the past 5 years?  Would you say that loot cards do not give player buffs? 
    How 'bout this one:  Would you be happy that SOE is squeezing large amounts of cash from fellow gamers via their TCG game of chance because it means you may get some of the content you've been hoping for?
    Would you pull up laws from another country to try to defend actions taking place in the United States?  Would you say that the NGE and the TCG have been well received, and that it's only a vocal minority that complain about them?
    Some people would.  Every one of these examples can be found somewhere on these boards and more.  We can provide these people over and over again with factual information.  We can provide quotes from devs, from Smed or from other internet sources to back it up, and it won't matter.  Why not?  Because the truth does not fit with their agenda. 
    Hopefully I'll remember this and spare myself some frustration in future discussions lol; I guess we'll see :).
     

     

    yeah its sad your world got taken from you, but why put that punishment on newer people who enjoy the game, yes i know its strange that people can enjoy a game no matter all the bad things that have happened but its true.  Does it really bother you that much? why can't they just be happy playing the game they enjoy at this point, many many years later, did they ask you to protect them for SOE? i mean really if i see anyone here defend the game or say the like it they get trashed and called names, if i see anyone post negative comments they get trashed, your all guilty, hell i'm guilty of it at times. 

    Why do topics keep getting locked? because even though you are good about discussing things, others run in screaming viral marketer and fanboi and others run in screaming omg hater, maybe when people grow up some this place won't have to be regulated so much.  There are rules here, people shouldn't cry if they get in trouble for not following them.

    I'm sure there are other places to post if they feel the need to cuss and argue and call names.

    All i'll say is who's truth?  i read around here a lot and people seem to have their own truth for everything. same with facts, everyone says their facts, but they are nothing but opinion.

    Oh hi Scalebane :)  Actually I'm glad people are having fun in SWG.

     

    Also, I don't have a problem with any locked posts.  I don't think I mentioned anything about that?  Maybe that's a carry over from another conversation that I'm not part of.

    I'm also talking about actually lying to preserve something you enjoy.  You know like "the loot cards do not give players any ingame advantages."  "SWG doesn't have a population problem."  "The new game changes are being well received."  Simple obvious things like that.  Some people will say them, and if you point out simple facts, they won't hear you, will change the subject, or will come back with something like, "Smed does NOTsleep with sheep!"  Erm, who said he did?  Lol, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

    As for, "whose truth?"  I'm a pretty existential guy actually, post-modern and all that.  Different points of view can all have equal validity, but this doesn't justify outright lying.  Either the loot cards give advantages or they don't, for instance.  Saying that they don't, isn't a point of view.  It's a lie.  Saying that there is no population problem isn't a point of view.  It's a lie.  People have been hollering about the empty servers for between 2 and 3 years now.  Smed promised to fast track server mergers because of the problem, and now they're finally doing transfers. 

    I've just decided that some people find accurate information threatening, and they'll say or do anything to try to deny things that really aren't that hard for people to see.

    I'm thinking out loud that debating with these folks is a waste of my time and energy.  I really don't think it takes a brain surgeon to spot when someone repeatedly says things that are obvious fabrications.  This should make some SOE defenders happy actually lol.  They can pretty much say what they like at this point, and I'm not likely to respond.  I think it's all just so obviously silly at this point that nothing more needs to be said.  Hopefully that clarifies things a bit :)

    I also think some people (very few current players mind you) will indeed keep lying to try to keep their game afloat, and I think SOE will keep using these people until the whole thing inevitably implodes.  Ah well, what can ya do eh?  It's bound to happen, and reason won't make a difference apparently, so I think I should just sit back and let nature take it's course.  When you fight reality, it always wins in the end, and the longer you fight the bigger ass-kicking you usually get lol.

     

     

    I usually agree with you bro, but if different points of view have equal validity, then there is no truth, then there is no such thing as lying -- that is why post-modernism collapses in upon itself in its own self contradiction.

     

     

    Hiya Fish!  Sweet, a philosophical dialogue :).  I'm with you actually.  I think there are certain unalterable truths.  Post-modernism for me (heh how post-modern is that?) is more that there is more than one valid point of view at times.  I want to emphasize at times. 

     

    Here's an example.  What tastes better, chocolate pudding or vanilla?  There's some subjective reality going on there.  Acknowledging subjective reality for me, isn't an outright dismissal of objective truth.

    What's fun?  That's another subjective reality issue.  People can say, "SWG is fun!"  Cool, I believe them.  It's fun for them, no argument.

    However, when you say buffs don't...buff you, well that's just a lie.  What do you think of that?

     

    Ah, okay. Those aren't questions about truth as such, but about preference. In that, subjectivism FTW.

    As a philosophical doctrine, however, it is self-collapsing :)

    Howeever, it a testable, observable fact that SWG is NOT fun. That is a metaphysical, unalterable truth of reality ;)

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Scalebane

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    It's become obvious that some people will say, and perhaps believe, anything they like in order to try to save or protect their online happy place.  Some may get paid to do it, others may be staff doing it in their spare time, and I'm sure many are just players that don't want to lose their virtual experience.
    I'll be honest, I didn't want to lose my virtual experience either.  Who does?  MMOs create emotional attachments and people get invested in their progress.  Nobody wants to lose this, but would you lie to protect it?
    Would you say that the loot vehicles offer no advantages when information has been clearly posted saying that they do?  Would you say that SOE can be counted on to listen to their players when time and time again they have failed to do so?  Would you suggest that one example of listening to a players request could possibly offset all of the deceptions and broken promises of the past 5 years?  Would you say that loot cards do not give player buffs? 
    How 'bout this one:  Would you be happy that SOE is squeezing large amounts of cash from fellow gamers via their TCG game of chance because it means you may get some of the content you've been hoping for?
    Would you pull up laws from another country to try to defend actions taking place in the United States?  Would you say that the NGE and the TCG have been well received, and that it's only a vocal minority that complain about them?
    Some people would.  Every one of these examples can be found somewhere on these boards and more.  We can provide these people over and over again with factual information.  We can provide quotes from devs, from Smed or from other internet sources to back it up, and it won't matter.  Why not?  Because the truth does not fit with their agenda. 
    Hopefully I'll remember this and spare myself some frustration in future discussions lol; I guess we'll see :).
     

     

    yeah its sad your world got taken from you, but why put that punishment on newer people who enjoy the game, yes i know its strange that people can enjoy a game no matter all the bad things that have happened but its true.  Does it really bother you that much? why can't they just be happy playing the game they enjoy at this point, many many years later, did they ask you to protect them for SOE? i mean really if i see anyone here defend the game or say the like it they get trashed and called names, if i see anyone post negative comments they get trashed, your all guilty, hell i'm guilty of it at times. 

    Why do topics keep getting locked? because even though you are good about discussing things, others run in screaming viral marketer and fanboi and others run in screaming omg hater, maybe when people grow up some this place won't have to be regulated so much.  There are rules here, people shouldn't cry if they get in trouble for not following them.

    I'm sure there are other places to post if they feel the need to cuss and argue and call names.

    All i'll say is who's truth?  i read around here a lot and people seem to have their own truth for everything. same with facts, everyone says their facts, but they are nothing but opinion.

    Oh hi Scalebane :)  Actually I'm glad people are having fun in SWG.

     

    Also, I don't have a problem with any locked posts.  I don't think I mentioned anything about that?  Maybe that's a carry over from another conversation that I'm not part of.

    I'm also talking about actually lying to preserve something you enjoy.  You know like "the loot cards do not give players any ingame advantages."  "SWG doesn't have a population problem."  "The new game changes are being well received."  Simple obvious things like that.  Some people will say them, and if you point out simple facts, they won't hear you, will change the subject, or will come back with something like, "Smed does NOTsleep with sheep!"  Erm, who said he did?  Lol, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

    As for, "whose truth?"  I'm a pretty existential guy actually, post-modern and all that.  Different points of view can all have equal validity, but this doesn't justify outright lying.  Either the loot cards give advantages or they don't, for instance.  Saying that they don't, isn't a point of view.  It's a lie.  Saying that there is no population problem isn't a point of view.  It's a lie.  People have been hollering about the empty servers for between 2 and 3 years now.  Smed promised to fast track server mergers because of the problem, and now they're finally doing transfers. 

    I've just decided that some people find accurate information threatening, and they'll say or do anything to try to deny things that really aren't that hard for people to see.

    I'm thinking out loud that debating with these folks is a waste of my time and energy.  I really don't think it takes a brain surgeon to spot when someone repeatedly says things that are obvious fabrications.  This should make some SOE defenders happy actually lol.  They can pretty much say what they like at this point, and I'm not likely to respond.  I think it's all just so obviously silly at this point that nothing more needs to be said.  Hopefully that clarifies things a bit :)

    I also think some people (very few current players mind you) will indeed keep lying to try to keep their game afloat, and I think SOE will keep using these people until the whole thing inevitably implodes.  Ah well, what can ya do eh?  It's bound to happen, and reason won't make a difference apparently, so I think I should just sit back and let nature take it's course.  When you fight reality, it always wins in the end, and the longer you fight the bigger ass-kicking you usually get lol.

     

     

    I usually agree with you bro, but if different points of view have equal validity, then there is no truth, then there is no such thing as lying -- that is why post-modernism collapses in upon itself in its own self contradiction.

     

     

    Hiya Fish!  Sweet, a philosophical dialogue :).  I'm with you actually.  I think there are certain unalterable truths.  Post-modernism for me (heh how post-modern is that?) is more that there is more than one valid point of view at times.  I want to emphasize at times. 

     

    Here's an example.  What tastes better, chocolate pudding or vanilla?  There's some subjective reality going on there.  Acknowledging subjective reality for me, isn't an outright dismissal of objective truth.

    What's fun?  That's another subjective reality issue.  People can say, "SWG is fun!"  Cool, I believe them.  It's fun for them, no argument.

    However, when you say buffs don't...buff you, well that's just a lie.  What do you think of that?

     

    Ah, okay. Those aren't questions about truth as such, but about preference. In that, subjectivism FTW.

    As a philosophical doctrine, however, it is self-collapsing :)

    Howeever, it a testable, observable fact that SWG is NOT fun. That is a metaphysical, unalterable truth of reality ;)



     

    Lol, okay that's just funny :)  Also, I agree if everything is relative and we can each define reality in our own terms, we're fooked lol. 

    Here's some more of those outright falsehoods there's just no point arguing about that I mean:

    "The only thing people lost with the NGE was the creature handler necklace."  Lol, someone actually told me that.  Another one was even more silly: "The only thing people lost with the NGE was their Master Jedi title."  Wth?  There was no Master jedi title just before the NGE came out.

    More things would be like "it's just the vocal minority of whiners that doesn't like (enter unwanted game change of your choice here)."  That' would go back to the population problem...that allegedly doesn't exist :P.

    These aren't subjective things.  They're not preferences or perceptions.  If people can't admit things that are plain for everyone else to see, well you just can't talk to them.  Truth is outside of their awareness it would seem, so using it in conversation is of little value. 

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Scalebane

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    It's become obvious that some people will say, and perhaps believe, anything they like in order to try to save or protect their online happy place.  Some may get paid to do it, others may be staff doing it in their spare time, and I'm sure many are just players that don't want to lose their virtual experience.
    I'll be honest, I didn't want to lose my virtual experience either.  Who does?  MMOs create emotional attachments and people get invested in their progress.  Nobody wants to lose this, but would you lie to protect it?
    Would you say that the loot vehicles offer no advantages when information has been clearly posted saying that they do?  Would you say that SOE can be counted on to listen to their players when time and time again they have failed to do so?  Would you suggest that one example of listening to a players request could possibly offset all of the deceptions and broken promises of the past 5 years?  Would you say that loot cards do not give player buffs? 
    How 'bout this one:  Would you be happy that SOE is squeezing large amounts of cash from fellow gamers via their TCG game of chance because it means you may get some of the content you've been hoping for?
    Would you pull up laws from another country to try to defend actions taking place in the United States?  Would you say that the NGE and the TCG have been well received, and that it's only a vocal minority that complain about them?
    Some people would.  Every one of these examples can be found somewhere on these boards and more.  We can provide these people over and over again with factual information.  We can provide quotes from devs, from Smed or from other internet sources to back it up, and it won't matter.  Why not?  Because the truth does not fit with their agenda. 
    Hopefully I'll remember this and spare myself some frustration in future discussions lol; I guess we'll see :).
     

     

    yeah its sad your world got taken from you, but why put that punishment on newer people who enjoy the game, yes i know its strange that people can enjoy a game no matter all the bad things that have happened but its true.  Does it really bother you that much? why can't they just be happy playing the game they enjoy at this point, many many years later, did they ask you to protect them for SOE? i mean really if i see anyone here defend the game or say the like it they get trashed and called names, if i see anyone post negative comments they get trashed, your all guilty, hell i'm guilty of it at times. 

    Why do topics keep getting locked? because even though you are good about discussing things, others run in screaming viral marketer and fanboi and others run in screaming omg hater, maybe when people grow up some this place won't have to be regulated so much.  There are rules here, people shouldn't cry if they get in trouble for not following them.

    I'm sure there are other places to post if they feel the need to cuss and argue and call names.

    All i'll say is who's truth?  i read around here a lot and people seem to have their own truth for everything. same with facts, everyone says their facts, but they are nothing but opinion.

    Oh hi Scalebane :)  Actually I'm glad people are having fun in SWG.

     

    Also, I don't have a problem with any locked posts.  I don't think I mentioned anything about that?  Maybe that's a carry over from another conversation that I'm not part of.

    I'm also talking about actually lying to preserve something you enjoy.  You know like "the loot cards do not give players any ingame advantages."  "SWG doesn't have a population problem."  "The new game changes are being well received."  Simple obvious things like that.  Some people will say them, and if you point out simple facts, they won't hear you, will change the subject, or will come back with something like, "Smed does NOTsleep with sheep!"  Erm, who said he did?  Lol, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

    As for, "whose truth?"  I'm a pretty existential guy actually, post-modern and all that.  Different points of view can all have equal validity, but this doesn't justify outright lying.  Either the loot cards give advantages or they don't, for instance.  Saying that they don't, isn't a point of view.  It's a lie.  Saying that there is no population problem isn't a point of view.  It's a lie.  People have been hollering about the empty servers for between 2 and 3 years now.  Smed promised to fast track server mergers because of the problem, and now they're finally doing transfers. 

    I've just decided that some people find accurate information threatening, and they'll say or do anything to try to deny things that really aren't that hard for people to see.

    I'm thinking out loud that debating with these folks is a waste of my time and energy.  I really don't think it takes a brain surgeon to spot when someone repeatedly says things that are obvious fabrications.  This should make some SOE defenders happy actually lol.  They can pretty much say what they like at this point, and I'm not likely to respond.  I think it's all just so obviously silly at this point that nothing more needs to be said.  Hopefully that clarifies things a bit :)

    I also think some people (very few current players mind you) will indeed keep lying to try to keep their game afloat, and I think SOE will keep using these people until the whole thing inevitably implodes.  Ah well, what can ya do eh?  It's bound to happen, and reason won't make a difference apparently, so I think I should just sit back and let nature take it's course.  When you fight reality, it always wins in the end, and the longer you fight the bigger ass-kicking you usually get lol.

     

     

    I usually agree with you bro, but if different points of view have equal validity, then there is no truth, then there is no such thing as lying -- that is why post-modernism collapses in upon itself in its own self contradiction.

     

     

    Hiya Fish!  Sweet, a philosophical dialogue :).  I'm with you actually.  I think there are certain unalterable truths.  Post-modernism for me (heh how post-modern is that?) is more that there is more than one valid point of view at times.  I want to emphasize at times. 

     

    Here's an example.  What tastes better, chocolate pudding or vanilla?  There's some subjective reality going on there.  Acknowledging subjective reality for me, isn't an outright dismissal of objective truth.

    What's fun?  That's another subjective reality issue.  People can say, "SWG is fun!"  Cool, I believe them.  It's fun for them, no argument.

    However, when you say buffs don't...buff you, well that's just a lie.  What do you think of that?

     

    Ah, okay. Those aren't questions about truth as such, but about preference. In that, subjectivism FTW.

    As a philosophical doctrine, however, it is self-collapsing :)

    Howeever, it a testable, observable fact that SWG is NOT fun. That is a metaphysical, unalterable truth of reality ;)



     

    Lol, okay that's just funny :)  Also, I agree if everything is relative and we can each define reality in our own terms, we're fooked lol. 

    Here's some more of those outright falsehoods there's just no point arguing about that I mean:

    "The only thing people lost with the NGE was the creature handler necklace."  Lol, someone actually told me that.  Another one was even more silly: "The only thing people lost with the NGE was their Master Jedi title."  Wth?  There was no Master jedi title just before the NGE came out.

    More things would be like "it's just the vocal minority of whiners that doesn't like (enter unwanted game change of your choice here)."  That' would go back to the population problem...that allegedly doesn't exist :P.

    These aren't subjective things.  They're not preferences or perceptions.  If people can't admit things that are plain for everyone else to see, well you just can't talk to them.  Truth is outside of their awareness it would seem, so using it in conversation is of little value. 

     

    I perceive much truth in your statements.

  • lightning-rdlightning-rd Member Posts: 123

    The fanbois right now feel they HAVE to go out and say whatever they have to say to protect the NGE because the writing of it's obutuary is already on the wall with SWTOR.

    There is no way in hell LEC is going to consent to the NGE remaining active even if it's sub base is miniscule because they will want everyone they can get in SWTOR, where the money and development effort are.  The mere fact that they picked Bioware over SOE alone pretty much spell curtains for the NGE.

    When the NGE shuts down, that's it, it is GONE.  DONE.  It will NEVER exist again in any form.  No one wants to emulate it, mostly because the majority who played it doesn't want it on LIVE even.

     

     

  • SlampigSlampig Member UncommonPosts: 2,342

    Another thread about the evil SOE...

    What happens when you get the wrong order at the drive-thru? Do you come back to that same drive-thru day after day after day saying the exact same thing over and over and over?

    Actually, for some reason that wouldn't surprise me.

    Anyway, by your way of thinking and my posting, does this mean I am paid by SOE?

    Because I am tired to DEATH of reading the same threads day in and day out? Because I don't understand why someone liking SWG means they are an idiot, or "fanboY", or are  paid by Sony.

    It is a waste of time beating this dead horse, your time the players that enjoy the games time, and my time.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by Slampig


    Another thread about the evil SOE...
    What happens when you get the wrong order at the drive-thru? Do you come back to that same drive-thru day after day after day saying the exact same thing over and over and over?
    Actually, for some reason that wouldn't surprise me.
    Anyway, by your way of thinking and my posting, does this mean I am paid by SOE?
    Because I am tired to DEATH of reading the same threads day in and day out? Because I don't understand why someone liking SWG means they are an idiot, or "fanboY", or are  paid by Sony.
    It is a waste of time beating this dead horse, your time the players that enjoy the games time, and my time.

     

    If you are tired to death of it, why do you continue? Seems the one beating the dead horse is you.

  • liverdamageliverdamage Member Posts: 79
    Originally posted by Slampig


    Another thread about the evil SOE...
    What happens when you get the wrong order at the drive-thru? Do you come back to that same drive-thru day after day after day saying the exact same thing over and over and over?
    Actually, for some reason that wouldn't surprise me.
    Anyway, by your way of thinking and my posting, does this mean I am paid by SOE?
    Because I am tired to DEATH of reading the same threads day in and day out? Because I don't understand why someone liking SWG means they are an idiot, or "fanboY", or are  paid by Sony.
    It is a waste of time beating this dead horse, your time the players that enjoy the games time, and my time.

    If I get the wrong order at a drive through I go back and the restaurant admits they made a mistake and fixes the problem. SOE has never admitted the NGE was wrong and they have never done anything to fix the problem.

    And if you're so sick and tired of reading these threads then why are you still here?

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by Slampig


    Another thread about the evil SOE...
    What happens when you get the wrong order at the drive-thru? Do you come back to that same drive-thru day after day after day saying the exact same thing over and over and over?
    Actually, for some reason that wouldn't surprise me.
    Anyway, by your way of thinking and my posting, does this mean I am paid by SOE?
    Because I am tired to DEATH of reading the same threads day in and day out? Because I don't understand why someone liking SWG means they are an idiot, or "fanboY", or are  paid by Sony.
    It is a waste of time beating this dead horse, your time the players that enjoy the games time, and my time.

    Erm, you don't actually seem to be responding to what I really said.  But that's ok lol.  Really it is.  You can think it's an SOE is evil thread, even if it's not, and you can think I'm calling you a viral marketter, even though I didn't.  It's really ok lol.  Hey this is fun, very liberating :)

    P.S. Kind of ironic too.  It's actually a thread about how useless is it to repeat facts to someone who is unwilling or unable to hear them.   You know, people that only hear what they want to hear, or what they expect to hear, and respond accordingly.

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by liverdamage

    Originally posted by Slampig


    Another thread about the evil SOE...
    What happens when you get the wrong order at the drive-thru? Do you come back to that same drive-thru day after day after day saying the exact same thing over and over and over?
    Actually, for some reason that wouldn't surprise me.
    Anyway, by your way of thinking and my posting, does this mean I am paid by SOE?
    Because I am tired to DEATH of reading the same threads day in and day out? Because I don't understand why someone liking SWG means they are an idiot, or "fanboY", or are  paid by Sony.
    It is a waste of time beating this dead horse, your time the players that enjoy the games time, and my time.

    If I get the wrong order at a drive through I go back and the restaurant admits they made a mistake and fixes the problem. SOE has never admitted the NGE was wrong and they have never done anything to fix the problem.

    And if you're so sick and tired of reading these threads then why are you still here?

    Really, I would never keep doing something I was 'sick and tired" of unless someon was paying me for it. Even then, no job is worth it to keep doing if you are sick and tired of it.

    Hmmmm. I must ponder this.

  • GutboyGutboy Member Posts: 630

    As far as the loot card speeders being the "best" I ran the official racetracks with my Command BARC (you can only get that by ranking up in the GCW officer ranks to colonel and then buying it with ingame credits) vs all of the loot card speeders.

    The command BARC beat each one with ease.

     

     

     

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931

    Lol this is priceless.  I make a thread about how no matter what you say, some SOE defenders won't accept facts, even established by neutral third parties, and what do I get?  People responding to things that weren't actually said and another denial of the speed advantage offered by the loot cards LOL!  Man that's just classic :)  And, this denial comes from a guy that told me all of the loot cards are cosmetic...oops forgot about the buff cards, and the ad for the podracer calling it the fastest personal vehicle in the game.

  • IcoGamesIcoGames Member Posts: 2,360

    I know what you mean OP; kind of like when 'vets' look back at the pre-CU through rose-colored glasses.  You'd think SWG was the best thing since sliced bread.  

    Ico
    Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.

  • GutboyGutboy Member Posts: 630
    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    Lol this is priceless.  I make a thread about how no matter what you say, some SOE defenders won't accept facts, even established by neutral third parties, and what do I get?  People responding to things that weren't actually said and another denial of the speed advantage offered by the loot cards LOL!  Man that's just classic :)  And, this denial comes from a guy that told me all of the loot cards are cosmetic...oops forgot about the buff cards, and the ad for the podracer calling it the fastest personal vehicle in the game.



     

    I tested the claim in the real game, where such things as terrain makes a huge difference, the HUGE podracer is faster on level clear terrain, it sucks when it has to avoid any rocks,trees, buildings, you know the stuff that is in the game. The Sith speeder is fast on level ground, try to climb a hill and the command barc shoots right by it.

    The loot buffs, forgot to mention you can get the same power of buffs for free ingame on Mustafar, where they have a 100% chance of dropping for free no less.

     

     

  • GravezGravez Member Posts: 249
    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    Lol this is priceless.  I make a thread about how no matter what you say, some SOE defenders won't accept facts, even established by neutral third parties, and what do I get?  People responding to things that weren't actually said and another denial of the speed advantage offered by the loot cards LOL!  Man that's just classic :)  And, this denial comes from a guy that told me all of the loot cards are cosmetic...oops forgot about the buff cards, and the ad for the podracer calling it the fastest personal vehicle in the game.



     

    It's like trying to argue with religous fanatics, that's why I don't even bother anymore. Part of me feels bad for some of these people if they ever shut SWG down and part of me wants to laugh in their faces.

  • GutboyGutboy Member Posts: 630

    I do find it funny that the disgruntled vets would accept what the SOE ad states over an actual ingame test of the speed of the Loot speeders.

    I thought no disgruntled vet ever took what SOE said was the truth?

  • SuvrocSuvroc Member Posts: 2,383
    Originally posted by Gutboy

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    Lol this is priceless.  I make a thread about how no matter what you say, some SOE defenders won't accept facts, even established by neutral third parties, and what do I get?  People responding to things that weren't actually said and another denial of the speed advantage offered by the loot cards LOL!  Man that's just classic :)  And, this denial comes from a guy that told me all of the loot cards are cosmetic...oops forgot about the buff cards, and the ad for the podracer calling it the fastest personal vehicle in the game.



     

    I tested the claim in the real game, where such things as terrain makes a huge difference, the HUGE podracer is faster on level clear terrain, it sucks when it has to avoid any rocks,trees, buildings, you know the stuff that is in the game.  



     

    So, aside from the terrain hindering it's ability to achieve a higher speed is it the fastest speeder in game?

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by Gutboy

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    Lol this is priceless.  I make a thread about how no matter what you say, some SOE defenders won't accept facts, even established by neutral third parties, and what do I get?  People responding to things that weren't actually said and another denial of the speed advantage offered by the loot cards LOL!  Man that's just classic :)  And, this denial comes from a guy that told me all of the loot cards are cosmetic...oops forgot about the buff cards, and the ad for the podracer calling it the fastest personal vehicle in the game.



     

    I tested the claim in the real game, where such things as terrain makes a huge difference, the HUGE podracer is faster on level clear terrain, it sucks when it has to avoid any rocks,trees, buildings, you know the stuff that is in the game. The Sith speeder is fast on level ground, try to climb a hill and the command barc shoots right by it.

    The loot buffs, forgot to mention you can get the same power of buffs for free ingame on Mustafar, where they have a 100% chance of dropping for free no less.

     

     

    I want to thank you for finally acknowledging that the podracer is the fastest vehicle on clear terrain.  It has by far the highest open ground top speed of any vehicle.  This is an honest post on your part, and I want to acknowledge this.  At least it's possible to have a dialogue when simple facts are acknowledged rather than denied.

    As for believing what SOE says lol (your other post), the speed comments were provided online in ads for the loot items, in wikis and by friends that I know and trust.  I don't believe that everything SOE says is a lie; that would be a break from realilty on my part.  In this case they told the truth.  However, because of their history of providing misleading information, I didn't believe it until I verified it with two other sources, which I did.  I then posted this information, and had people deny it outright.  This is a refreshing change and a pleasant surprise.

    Also, saying that loot buffs are available in the paid expansion (Mustafar) is quite different than saying that the loot cards don't give ingame advantages.

    If we're really on a path to embracing honesty, I think it would be fair to mention that the loot buff is available ingame only via the paid expansion, so no the word "free" once again does not apply.  You have to pay SOE extra to get this.  Furthermore, my understanding is that new loot buffs are available in the TCG expansion that are more powerful than the buff you can get in the expansion. 

    I haven't taken the time to confirm this information about Mustafar and about then new loot buffs.  Anyone care to comment?  Is the ingame loot buff only available via a paid expansion?  Are the new loot buffs in the TCG expansion even more powerful?

  • SharkypalSharkypal Member Posts: 1,137
    Originally posted by ArcAngel3

    Originally posted by Gutboy

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    Lol this is priceless.  I make a thread about how no matter what you say, some SOE defenders won't accept facts, even established by neutral third parties, and what do I get?  People responding to things that weren't actually said and another denial of the speed advantage offered by the loot cards LOL!  Man that's just classic :)  And, this denial comes from a guy that told me all of the loot cards are cosmetic...oops forgot about the buff cards, and the ad for the podracer calling it the fastest personal vehicle in the game.



     

    I tested the claim in the real game, where such things as terrain makes a huge difference, the HUGE podracer is faster on level clear terrain, it sucks when it has to avoid any rocks,trees, buildings, you know the stuff that is in the game. The Sith speeder is fast on level ground, try to climb a hill and the command barc shoots right by it.

    The loot buffs, forgot to mention you can get the same power of buffs for free ingame on Mustafar, where they have a 100% chance of dropping for free no less.

     

     

    I want to thank you for finally acknowledging that the podracer is the fastest vehicle on clear terrain.  It has by far the highest open ground top speed of any vehicle.  This is an honest post on your part, and I want to acknowledge this.  At least it's possible to have a dialogue when simple facts are acknowledged rather than denied.

    As for believing what SOE says lol (your other post), the speed comments were provided online in ads for the loot items, in wikis and by friends that I know and trust.  I don't believe that everything SOE says is a lie; that would be a break from realilty on my part.  In this case they told the truth.  However, because of their history of providing misleading information, I didn't believe it until I verified it with two other sources, which I did.  I then posted this information, and had people deny it outright.  This is a refreshing change and a pleasant surprise.

    Also, saying that loot buffs are available in the paid expansion (Mustafar) is quite different than saying that the loot cards don't give ingame advantages.

    If we're really on a path to embracing honesty, I think it would be fair to mention that the loot buff is available ingame only via the paid expansion, so no the word "free" once again does not apply.  You have to pay SOE extra to get this.  Furthermore, my understanding is that new loot buffs are available in the TCG expansion that are more powerful than the buff you can get in the expansion. 

    I haven't taken the time to confirm this information about Mustafar and about then new loot buffs.  Anyone care to comment?  Is the ingame loot buff only available via a paid expansion?  Are the new loot buffs in the TCG expansion even more powerful?



     

    I cant say for sure but Im fairly certain that the Muur Talisman, Sanyassan Skull and Gorax ear are better than anything that drops on Musty. I think he is talking about the injector and if memory serves, the TCG buffs are slightly better.

    S

    N.B. I might be wrong about this and I have deleted my client and cancelled my subs so I cant log in to check :(

  • ummaxummax Member Posts: 779
    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    It's become obvious that some people will say, and perhaps believe, anything they like in order to try to save or protect their online happy place.  Some may get paid to do it, others may be staff doing it in their spare time, and I'm sure many are just players that don't want to lose their virtual experience.
    I'll be honest, I didn't want to lose my virtual experience either.  Who does?  MMOs create emotional attachments and people get invested in their progress.  Nobody wants to lose this, but would you lie to protect it?
    Would you say that the loot vehicles offer no advantages when information has been clearly posted saying that they do?  Would you say that SOE can be counted on to listen to their players when time and time again they have failed to do so?  Would you suggest that one example of listening to a players request could possibly offset all of the deceptions and broken promises of the past 5 years?  Would you say that loot cards do not give player buffs? 
    How 'bout this one:  Would you be happy that SOE is squeezing large amounts of cash from fellow gamers via their TCG game of chance because it means you may get some of the content you've been hoping for?
    Would you pull up laws from another country to try to defend actions taking place in the United States?  Would you say that the NGE and the TCG have been well received, and that it's only a vocal minority that complain about them?
    Some people would.  Every one of these examples can be found somewhere on these boards and more.  We can provide these people over and over again with factual information.  We can provide quotes from devs, from Smed or from other internet sources to back it up, and it won't matter.  Why not?  Because the truth does not fit with their agenda. 
    Hopefully I'll remember this and spare myself some frustration in future discussions lol; I guess we'll see :).
     



     

    1) information has also been posted to the opposite that the "loot vehicle" I'm assuming your speaking of the trading card ones are no faster then other top end vehicles.    One person is providing inaccurate information however there is no proof as to what "side" is as you seem to feel "lying".  Lie is a strong word, but if you insist on using it since I am 100% positive that the loot vehicles in fact provide 0% advantage in the game to any player I will use such a strong word here and that the "lying" is on the other side of the argument regarding these vehicles.  One small bit of information keeps being left out about these vehicles is that combat from vehilces is in fact impossible.  Being on a vehicle makes it only possible to escape, but youc an't call it if you are in combat so you must already be on it in order of it to be of any use.  It must also have a pretty sizeable glancing blow avoidance bonus plus a great deal of hit points in order to be of any help what so ever.  To date no one on a sith speeder has managed to escape me in fact quite the opposite occurs I can one shot them on that vehicle and dismount them which is why I can unequivocally tell you that the fact is they have given zero advantage due to lack of both glancing blow bonus AND hit points. 

    2) The cash is voluntary. *I* and others dont pay anything to SOE above and beyond what we in fact *choose* to pay.  So like any business they are in fact not squeezing anything out of anyone.  Entertainment is a choice and a luxury and non -essential service.  I and others can and have walked away from various forms of entertainment on and off without having sony, blizzard, ea or anyone else coming to our door or putting us into shackls telling us that we must must must pay them money and play their game.  If on the other hand sony was the one and only health care provider in my country and the one and only ambulance service in my country or offered the one and only telephone service in my country then they would indeed be squeezing money out of me if i needed an operation or had to make a phone call or god forbid get into an ambulance.   So no one is forced into anything.  Now usually when people stop playing games they stop paying and walk away.  They had their fun and suddenly it became "unfun" for them and they left.   I know this is true because I myself have walked away from many games including at times ones by sony.  I dont always pay money for a station pass account but its winter so i play all games.  I dont always have 3 accounts open to play SWG, but at the moment I do because I *choose* to.  When I no longer *choose* to I will stop paying for all those accounts and go back to having only one open, but rest assured no one is holding a gun to my head or squeezing a single dime out of me I dont want to willingly pay them.

    3) I was unaware that the reason for the TCG was to pay for content for any of their games.  I personally was under the impression that money for TCG's is for the TCG.  I have heard this "excuse" for the TCG before.  I simply dont believe it.  Sony is a business they have a TCG like other companies and make money off of it and put it in the bank. pay people or have wild parties ... TCG money is for the TCG and I have not heard sony state otherwise.  If this is untrue then I guess I'm pretty stingy and possibly selfish cause I refuse to pay money to sony I dont want to pay them for a TCG....

    4)  The NGE was not well received and no there was no vocal minority people ranted about it daily ingame.  The TCG on the other hand is a different story.  No one rants about it in the game, there are no "nekid server sit ins" no attempt to crash servers only 20 people possibly maybe 5 with alt accounts trying to look like 20 people spamming threads at the rate of 5 or 6 per day but the thread starters if you watch are always the same few people.  These are two seperate incidents and I would imagine the outcry is not the same because people are not being affected on a wide scale because there are actually very few benefits to the thing and it *is* only a card game and many people *do* enjoy it especially when they are at end game and want something else to do.

    5) never seen anyone using laws from other countries defending american actions, but I could be wrong and to be honest the ones screaming the loudest are for the most part americans with a few rare exceptions.   I have however seen people attempting to use foreign law to do the opposite but again its rare as most of the really bad posters on the main forums at this point in time have an average age of about 15 or 16.  I know this because I know a couple of these people personally and they are kids who spend a lot of time smacktalking on vent and doing the omgwtfpwnbbq thing.  I and many others dont post on the main forums because most of the time we are knee deep in teenagers and really can't be bothered to get involved in "your mom sucks" reasons for not liking something.

    6) re agendas;  I believe you think that many people are putting more thought and care more about the issues being brought up then they actually do.  I know people seem to think i'm incredibly passionate about the entire mess.  I am not really and if john smedly got arrested tomorrow and the TCG was shut down and they painted SWG's landscape fluorescent orange I would be like many people rather amused and walk away and find another game to play.  I highly doubt many people have agendas here I know I don't despite people's claims that I do.  The only thing that irks me is that a lot of information stated as fact is actually pretty subjective.  Then there are people who are upset because sony doesn't publish numbers on server populations for instance.  Well no one seems to believe what sony does say with regards to other issues like say vehicle speeds so I see no reason they would belive sony on other things.   I think many people have a sliding scale of "believe" and like to cherry pick what is in fact truth and simply toss out what they choose to not believe as a "lie" despite the fact that there are sources that say otherwise (wait I think you just said this but used it to support the "other side" of the "war").  It does in fact go both ways and I hate to say it a great deal of what has been said recently has been more then just a little bit inaccurate and is quite obviously third hand information that has not been validated as fact, but simply has been assumed to be "fact" and become "fact" because its used so often.   Kinda like "the world is flat" thing.  Enough people said it that it was thought to be fact then some dude came by one day and tried to say otherwise and well a bunch of people got really mad at him because the world as we all know it is indeed flat.

     

  • GutboyGutboy Member Posts: 630
    Originally posted by Suvroc

    Originally posted by Gutboy

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3


    Lol this is priceless.  I make a thread about how no matter what you say, some SOE defenders won't accept facts, even established by neutral third parties, and what do I get?  People responding to things that weren't actually said and another denial of the speed advantage offered by the loot cards LOL!  Man that's just classic :)  And, this denial comes from a guy that told me all of the loot cards are cosmetic...oops forgot about the buff cards, and the ad for the podracer calling it the fastest personal vehicle in the game.



     

    I tested the claim in the real game, where such things as terrain makes a huge difference, the HUGE podracer is faster on level clear terrain, it sucks when it has to avoid any rocks,trees, buildings, you know the stuff that is in the game.  



     

    So, aside from the terrain hindering it's ability to achieve a higher speed is it the fastest speeder in game?

    The whole point of every objection to the loot cards is that the loot gives those players an advantage over players that do not spend the cash to obtain TCG loot cards, or am I wrong?

     

    The fact is because of terrain none of the loot card speeders have an advantage over speeders that can be obtained by ingame activity. I further submit that the "buffs" you can get from the TCG use the same buff slots as ingame obtained buffs.

    Also the current leader in combat buff's is the "radio" collection you get from killing 5 different boss's in the Hoth instance, it give you +250 damage on every attack you make for 30 seconds with a 1 hour cooldown. It trumps a buff you get that lets you survive in effect 1 special from 1 player that you can get from the TCG system.

    The new V-wing is just a different skin for a A-Wing no advantage since it's mass is so low (66K mass).

    The barn's only extra function (ability to park creatures outside of your datapad) is being given in a upcoming publish to any beastmaster.

  • liverdamageliverdamage Member Posts: 79
    Originally posted by Gutboy



    The whole point of every objection to the loot cards is that the loot gives those players an advantage over players that do not spend the cash to obtain TCG loot cards, or am I wrong?

    Yes, you're wrong. There is also the fact that all of these card game rewards should be made by crafters instead of being handed out by lottery. I know SOE likes to pretend that crafters don't exist other than being used as alts for loot vendors but I remember  time when crafting, entertainment and combat were all viable styles of play.

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