You see, the thing is, I don't want to play with you people. Not at all. I generally do not like anyone I do not know.
How do you meet people if you have that type attitude?
Why did you begin playing MMO's if you don't want to play with other people and already have it in your mind that you're not going to like them?
Doesn't that statement make you "socially inept" too?
I agree, some people do act like idiots online, saying things they would never dare say in person to somebody. You just have to grow thick skin. Or even better, get even, bring a few friends and corpse camp the moron until he logs off in disgust.
Some people (myself included) still have hope for MMORPG's as much as we complain on these boards. Players do have to put their money where their mouth is too, you can't blame WoW for the state of MMO's and have an account and log in every day.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Once upon a time there was a thing called roleplaying.
Roleplayers are people who play the game thru their character. They are not defined by their character in real life and often will not allow their own real life personality to define the character they're playing. If a RPers character fails at something in the game or is slighted by another's toon it has no reflection on the RPers themselves since they are not their toon and the life of their toon is not their own. They are telling their character's story every time they login whether other people are listening or not.
You've seen them around and have probably had many laughs at their expense, but trust me when I tell you they're laughing louder at their end because it's a story that they are telling and not a life that they are living.
All of you should try roleplaying.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Good post tho OP, you started an interesting, though lopsided, debate. Reading through every post, it looks like most people disagree with you on your point, but then again, if what you said really had hit a nerve who wouldn't? And if you had hit a nerve, then some of what you originally said might be true.
Well first of all by the same criteria you could say anything designed to make you sit in front of a computer rather than a go to a party is indicating your socially inept status. So I don’t think MMO’s are an indicator of social ineptitude otherwise so would shopping online and so on.
Second Life is a decent sandbox game, not great but about the best there is.
WoW helped finalise the translation from slow progress achievement MMO’s with decent RP tools to fast progress item and award MMO’s with hardly any RP tools. So it has certainly helped ruin MMO’s.
Neither SOE, Blizzard or EA are evil. I really think people need to get some perspective here. Hitler was evil, just because you have some issues with a company does not make it evil.
I agree with your analysis about trying to make MMO’s for everyone. That was always there as a factor from the offset, the problem is that marketing and business ideology has taken over games companies. While these are both absolutely necessary to run a MMO they are now in the driving seat with creativity and artistry in the car boot.
If you have issues playing with people MMO’s are just not for you.
I do play single player games, they keep me from MMO madness.
Microtransactions concern me too, we may be seeing another fundamental shift in MMO’s. We already have seen the dropping of RP content and achievement from MMORPG’s. Now we have items, medals, titles and PvP as the gold standard. We may see MMO’s change into games where what you purchase defines what you look like and can do.
In SL there is oodles of free stuff but money maketh the man in the end. I don’t see these new brands of MMO failing and I think our old MMO’s will go the way of adventure games… relegated to the boondocks on a poor mans budget.
No long term appeal? Just about every review, opinion and from what I have seen it has tons of long term appeal. There are multiple endings, and many ways to play your character. Plus you own and decorate your own house, etc. Not to mention all the mods out there. Define long term appeal? 200+ hours? Then sure. But Fallout has 100 hours in it for sure. You get what you put into it.
I think I'd rather spend 200+ hours with other people in a MMORPG than alone in a single player RPG.
If anything I'd say the one who enjoys playing the same game, alone, for over 200+ hours is socially inept.
But, that 200+ hours could be over 100 days, two hours a day. The same can be said for MMORPGs.
So please think before you post, and don't make hasty generalizations.
The thing is, single player games dont have the reputation of addiction. This is because, by the time true addiction sets in, the game is over.
Hi, First, socially inept is way to hard. Second, Im a 23 year old guy, i live in a big city, there is nowere to go, there are no big parks, there is a lot of polution and i haven't found a place to meet people and just chat since I'm 16. Does that make me a socially inept? What is your suggestion? What do you think i should do? Maybe you will tell me, you should get a job, and i did. But I still can't find people to talk to, and besides, that is not the point of having a job. Maybe you will tell me, go to college. Socializing is not the point of going to college either. Maybe you will tell me, get a girlfriend? then i will ask you "Where?". After all the initial problem is that there is no place to hang out an meet people. Maybe you will tell me... you are just making it dificult. No I'm not! I'm a social guy, today I started a conversation with someone in the subway. And ended up having his mail. The problem is that he is arround 40 or something. I'm 23, i want to spend time with people of my age! So what is your magic suggestion now? should i addopt a kid so I can spend more time with my kids? Maybe I should stop posting in the forums and just play solitare, alone. Right now I'm not playing any online game beside savage 2. You see, your theory is right, but your point of view is completely worng. Yes MMOs addict people who don't have a social life, but that doesn't mean that they have any other place to go. Since WoW started i have seen the population grow, this is in part because big cities are becoming less social, people don't even talk anymore in my city, i don't know my neighbours, i only meet with 1 of my highscool friends, and he has a job, and he doesn't have much time to hang out. See what I mean? Yes, you are right, many people play MMOs to have a social life, others like me post in forums and some others take pictures of themelves and have flogs, or write blogs. This is not because we are incapable of socializing outside a computer, but because we don't have other place to socialize. Now, about the spit thing.... I think you are overeacting. I mean, he just typed /spit. WoW does not make comunicating between factions and easy task. It is true also that some people, given anonymity, act like morons. But this is a small portion. So, how old are your kids? have you considered that they may suffer from what other MMO gamers suffer... lack of a place to hang out with his friends? Maybe he won't because you live in the suburbs, maybe he will because you live in the big city. So, if you red this, answer somthing, just to let me know that you did, because i find important for people to understand that our society is starting to fall due to our lack of socialization, and MMOs are neither the problem nor the solution, they are just showing us what is happening with our world. PD (you don't have to answer this, is just so you know): about fallout 3 being a good book.... thats a matter of opinion, i think its a piece of crap and you have really bad taste by considering "a good book". But is my opinion, don't let it bother you much
People who think they can prove someone wrong by their "one, rare, example" are just as gulty as those who over-generalize.
Like I mentioned before "generalization" to me, means "higher percentage of". You may be very well limited in your choices, but you are not the norm.
You ask what have I done? I have started to call and hang out with my friends more often and I am giving my family more time. And if there is one person who reads my post and does the same, then I have done my job.
But then, of course, there will be cases like you. You have come up with just about every excuse under the sun NOT to socialize with the outside. And you went at great length to justify it.
Finally, this is my last point on Fallout 3. I think a lot of you are taking my "good book" quote too literally. Fallout 3 is one the highest rated RPGs of this year. It will most likely win a game of the year award. I am totally enjoying the quests and the storyline to this point. I have always felt that people on the MMORPG boards are elitists, and telling someone they have bad taste because they like Fallout 3 is just plain dumb.
Originally posted by donjn The thing is, single player games dont have the reputation of addiction. This is because, by the time true addiction sets in, the game is over.
MMO addiction is nothing more than yet another socio-political bandwagon that's rolled out and merrily jumped upon by media organisations seeking sensationalism and political parties seeking to explain away the decline of moral values without acknowledging failures in their own policies.
The phenomenon simply does not exist (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7746471.stm) in any meaningful sense. One can be addicted to literally anything if your personality is sufficiently flawed.
Yes, including single-player games and forum trolling.
You can attempt to hide behind your generalisations by blurring the lines with "possibly" and "maybe", but they don't protect you from a good solid flaming for making a silly generalisation in the first place.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
You see, the thing is, I don't want to play with you people. Not at all. I generally do not like anyone I do not know.
How do you meet people if you have that type attitude?
Unless I am at work, I usually do not meet new people. I am lucky in that I have grown up and known 4 great friends who have not moved and lived in Los Angeles with me for 30 years. I have a wife and two kids, and have 3 friends at work, who I hang out with sometimes. I don't need to meet new people. Now, if I am at a party and meet new people, I certainly won't tell them "I dont like to meet new people"...lol
Why did you begin playing MMO's if you don't want to play with other people and already have it in your mind that you're not going to like them?
I began playing Ultima Online when I was 27 in 1997. It was amazing. And the first person I met online was a 15 year old girl in Austraillia who was excited about seeing Jurassic Park II: Lost World premiere there the next day. She had her tickets ready and could not wait. It was so amazing to me that I could chat with someone while we had characters in a game. Although this was not my first online conversation (80's Commodore 128 "Quantum Link" and early 90's BBS was before that), the conversation i had with her was my most memorable. Since then I have made new friends online. However, as the years have gone on I have met my share of jerks who ruin everything. And I am tired. For 10 years I have looked for groups and started new conversations. I am tired. I am tired of talking to people online...
Doesn't that statement make you "socially inept" too?
Yes and this is the WHOLE point of my topic. I am socially inept because I have spent too much time raiding and not enough times with my real life family and friends. I was hoping you guys could read between the lines a bit. But I am correcting things now..
I agree, some people do act like idiots online, saying things they would never dare say in person to somebody. You just have to grow thick skin. Or even better, get even, bring a few friends and corpse camp the moron until he logs off in disgust.
If in 10 years of playing MMOs I have not developed thick skin then I never will. What people say about me bothers me. I wish it didn't. Call me insecure or whatever you, but its the truth.
Some people (myself included) still have hope for MMORPG's as much as we complain on these boards. Players do have to put their money where their mouth is too, you can't blame WoW for the state of MMO's and have an account and log in every day.
I wish more of us at MMORPG would put their money where their mouth is. A lot of us talk about quitting but very few have. And yes, I am sure I will return again if the game is right. I am basically just taking a long break..
Originally posted by donjn The thing is, single player games dont have the reputation of addiction. This is because, by the time true addiction sets in, the game is over.
MMO addiction is nothing more than yet another socio-political bandwagon that's rolled out and merrily jumped upon by media organisations seeking sensationalism and political parties seeking to explain away the decline of moral values without acknowledging failures in their own policies.
The phenomenon simply does not exist (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7746471.stm) in any meaningful sense. One can be addicted to literally anything if your personality is sufficiently flawed.
Yes, including single-player games and forum trolling.
You can attempt to hide behind your generalisations by blurring the lines with "possibly" and "maybe", but they don't protect you from a good solid flaming for making a silly generalisation in the first place.
Conspiracy theory much? So you are going to actually tell me that MMOs do not have "time sinks" and "carrot on a stick" ways to keep people online and addicted? The point is YES ANYTHING CAN BECOME AND ADDICTION. However, MMOs PURPOSELY GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO LURE YOU INTO THE ADDICTION. You are completely missing my point.
I am sorry, but I wont stand for you mis-reading what I wrote and then justifying it as flame bait.
My point still stands. I used "possibly and maybe". You failed to read them and completely skipped those words. That is your problem with reading comprehension. It is not my issue. Don't confuse your reading comprehension issues with someone blurring the lines. Clearly "possibly and maybe" mean "not everyone".
I don't play MMORPGs anymore either, but that's because I play games for a different reason than most MMORPG players. Most of the people on this site are looking for escape from real life and "immersion" in a fantasy world. I play for compitition and diversion from everyday life so "immersion" isn't a big deal to me. Although the people on this site are little different from people I've actually met in MMORPGs.
For the most part I think you're dead on about people using MMORPGs as a proxy for a social life. I tend to use my job in this manner. I remember running into a woman at work a couple of years back that I was suprised to find out played Second Life. It was surprising to me because she seemed like the kind of person I would find playing cards on Yahoo rather than someone computer savy enough for SL(she was a 60 year old grandmother of three). Generally, the people that I meet in MMORPGs are just there to hang out with other people. But back to my original point....
I play probably just as many hours of CoD4, Dawn of War, Soul Calibur, as well as older games like Quake 3, Counter-Strike and Starcraft. I'm not playing multiplayer games out of any need to be social, although I occasionally get some good conversations in RTS games and during fighting games on XBox live; I'm playing multiplayer games to compete and take my mind off of everyday matters for awhile. You can see games as movies or theme park rides, but not everyone feels that way.
MMOs are nothing but a Pavlovian Experiment to Addict the Socially Inept
I hear a lot of you saying if X happens I am leaving MMOs for good. Well I ask, why not now? That is what I am doing and I have never been happier. Day after day on this message board the posts all look the same. People complain about the following things in new posts over and over:
• Why aren't there any good sandbox games?
• WoW has ruined MMOs
• SoE is evil, EA is evil, Blizzard is evil
MMOs fail because the whole idea behind them is flawed. You cannot please everyone. EA could never please both the Mage who waits outside of Britan ready to one shot PKIll you and the Tinker who wants to mine in the Minoc Mountains without getting ganked. So in order to be successful MMOs these days are made to please everyone. It is a lot like the movie industry. Look at the box office. Usually (but not always) crappy movies where the director wanted to appeal to everyone make the most money.
We log on to MMOs because there is possibly something socially that is lacking on our lives, at least for those who are addicted. I have a friend who is a guild master in World of Warcraft and he is a "star" online. Everyone PMs him when he logs in. I know this person. It is so funny seeing people suck up to him when he is online. No wonder why he is addicted and returning to his mundane lifestyle is not an option. Now, I am not saying this is the exact same case for all of us, but I do feel that anyone who is addicted to an MMO has some issues.
You see, the thing is, I don't want to play with you people. Not at all. I generally do not like anyone I do not know. Sure sometimes in groups I will meet a nice person but that one time I meet a jerk it would drive me nuts. In World of Warcraft sometimes a member of the horde would "/spit" on me after killing me. This would bug me so much that I would actually log on my horde alt and ask them why they did it? I would keep pursuing this matter until I got an answer I was happy with. I finally got that answer when I read about the "Greater Internet Dickwad Theory" by John Gabriel. This basically states that any given person, given anonymity and an audience can and oftentimes does become a total dickwad on the internet. Now, knowing that this means myself as well, I finally was able to understand that which is inside us. It is human nature.
Why not play some great single player games? Right now I am playing Fallout3 and Fable 2 and I have several more games lined up afterwards. These games have a main storyline, much like reading a good novel, that has an end. I dont feel that I am "missing" anything when I am not playing them. I am spending more time with my kids and when I have time, enjoying the "good book" that Fallout 3 is without dealing with having to spam chat channels to find groups, or deal with any of you. And now that Microtransactions are just about here, there is no reason under the sun to be playing MMOs, at all. There should be more of an outrage. MMOs are a total insult. In an MMO there is no ending, and they are purposely designed to string you along so you can get that next piece of loot, again and again.
But you continue to sit there and take it. Posting your displeasure on a message board is not enough. Uninstall.... Peace
I guess good riddens, I dont' want to play with you either. I may be an addict, but I talk to more people than you ever will. I'm like your friend, I log into a game and get a minimum of 20 PMs and I like it that way. I never leave my house and my doctor thinks that the ability to communicate with others in anyway is better than just sitting around inside. So yeah I'm addicted to social interaction, so how am I socially inept?
Originally posted by donjnYes and this is the WHOLE point of my topic. I am socially inept because I have spent too much time raiding and not enough times with my real life family and friends. I was hoping you guys could read between the lines a bit. But I am correcting things now..
Here we have the crux of the thread.
You're an antisocial MMO player who wants to "blame" the MMO genre for your social ineptness.
"It weren't me, guv.. it were the MMO wot done it."
Sorry, but no. If it wasn't MMOs, it would have been some other form of escapism that you would have gravitated towards.
I applaud your decision to resolve the flaws in your character, but not the manner in which you're deflecting "the blame" for them onto an external source.
At some point in time, you made a conscious decision to become the man you are today.
Your fault, no-one elses.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Originally posted by donjn Conspiracy theory much? So you are going to actually tell me that MMOs do not have "time sinks" and "carrot on a stick" ways to keep people online and addicted? The point is YES ANYTHING CAN BECOME AND ADDICTION. However, MMOs PURPOSELY GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO LURE YOU INTO THE ADDICTION. You are completely missing my point. I'm really not, you're merely attempting to deflect the cause of your social problems onto an external source. If the MMO made you socially inept, then it's not really your fault, is it? Yup, sorry. It really is. I am sorry, but I wont stand for you mis-reading what I wrote and then justifying it as flame bait. My point still stands. I used "possibly and maybe". You failed to read them and completely skipped those words. That is your problem with reading comprehension. It is not my issue. Don't confuse your reading comprehension issues with someone blurring the lines. Clearly "possibly and maybe" mean "not everyone". But please go on...this is entertaining.. I skipped them because they were redundant. Imagine if one was to say: "If you see an <insert ethnic group here> in the street then you're probably going to get robbed or maybe killed." If I was <insert ethnic group here> I might get a tad insulted at this statement, no? Adding "fluff" words doesn't detract from the generalisation one iota.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
People don't become addicted because they are socially inept.
It's because the brain gives of dopamine on succeses.
Have you ever wondered why everything in MMO is about succeses??
-LEVELS
-ITEMS
-RAID KILLS
-PROFESSION SKILL UPS
-QUEST SUCCESES
It's called rewarding. This stimulates the brain and triggers dopamine releases. Why MMO are adictive has been established for a while now. And although socialising is part of it, the big reason is the rewards that trigger dopamine.
Someone did a brain scan when someone was playing a game, that's what they saw.
Originally posted by donjn The point is YES ANYTHING CAN BECOME AND ADDICTION. However, MMOs PURPOSELY GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO LURE YOU INTO THE ADDICTION. You are completely missing my point.
That's why cheating is so succesfull in these games.
That's why people grind. That's why people who are honest people WANT to cheat.
It's the dopamine releases in their brain, or rather, the successes that trigger it, AKA the grind.
But it is not just because players are socially inept. A LOT of MMO players are socially adept but they still get addicted. It's the dopamine.
MMOs are nothing but a Pavlovian Experiment to Addict the Socially Inept
I hear a lot of you saying if X happens I am leaving MMOs for good. Well I ask, why not now? That is what I am doing and I have never been happier. Day after day on this message board the posts all look the same. People complain about the following things in new posts over and over:
• Why aren't there any good sandbox games?
• WoW has ruined MMOs
• SoE is evil, EA is evil, Blizzard is evil
MMOs fail because the whole idea behind them is flawed. You cannot please everyone. EA could never please both the Mage who waits outside of Britan ready to one shot PKIll you and the Tinker who wants to mine in the Minoc Mountains without getting ganked. So in order to be successful MMOs these days are made to please everyone. It is a lot like the movie industry. Look at the box office. Usually (but not always) crappy movies where the director wanted to appeal to everyone make the most money.
We log on to MMOs because there is possibly something socially that is lacking on our lives, at least for those who are addicted. I have a friend who is a guild master in World of Warcraft and he is a "star" online. Everyone PMs him when he logs in. I know this person. It is so funny seeing people suck up to him when he is online. No wonder why he is addicted and returning to his mundane lifestyle is not an option. Now, I am not saying this is the exact same case for all of us, but I do feel that anyone who is addicted to an MMO has some issues.
You see, the thing is, I don't want to play with you people. Not at all. I generally do not like anyone I do not know. Sure sometimes in groups I will meet a nice person but that one time I meet a jerk it would drive me nuts. In World of Warcraft sometimes a member of the horde would "/spit" on me after killing me. This would bug me so much that I would actually log on my horde alt and ask them why they did it? I would keep pursuing this matter until I got an answer I was happy with. I finally got that answer when I read about the "Greater Internet Dickwad Theory" by John Gabriel. This basically states that any given person, given anonymity and an audience can and oftentimes does become a total dickwad on the internet. Now, knowing that this means myself as well, I finally was able to understand that which is inside us. It is human nature.
Why not play some great single player games? Right now I am playing Fallout3 and Fable 2 and I have several more games lined up afterwards. These games have a main storyline, much like reading a good novel, that has an end. I dont feel that I am "missing" anything when I am not playing them. I am spending more time with my kids and when I have time, enjoying the "good book" that Fallout 3 is without dealing with having to spam chat channels to find groups, or deal with any of you. And now that Microtransactions are just about here, there is no reason under the sun to be playing MMOs, at all. There should be more of an outrage. MMOs are a total insult. In an MMO there is no ending, and they are purposely designed to string you along so you can get that next piece of loot, again and again.
But you continue to sit there and take it. Posting your displeasure on a message board is not enough. Uninstall.... Peace
I guess good riddens, I dont' want to play with you either. I may be an addict, but I talk to more people than you ever will. I'm like your friend, I log into a game and get a minimum of 20 PMs and I like it that way. I never leave my house and my doctor thinks that the ability to communicate with others in anyway is better than just sitting around inside. So yeah I'm addicted to social interaction, so how am I socially inept?
I had a response planned but never mind. I can't stop laughing at your avatar. Very funny.
People don't become addicted because they are socially inept. It's because the brain gives of dopamine on succeses. Have you ever wondered why everything in MMO is about succeses?? -LEVELS -ITEMS -RAID KILLS -PROFESSION SKILL UPS -QUEST SUCCESES
It's called rewarding. This stimulates the brain and triggers dopamine releases. Why MMO are adictive has been established for a while now. And although socialising is part of it, the big reason is the rewards that trigger dopamine. Someone did a brain scan when someone was playing a game, that's what they saw.
Yes, but people can BECOME socially inept trying to obtain those things..
People don't become addicted because they are socially inept. It's because the brain gives of dopamine on succeses. Have you ever wondered why everything in MMO is about succeses?? -LEVELS -ITEMS -RAID KILLS -PROFESSION SKILL UPS -QUEST SUCCESES
It's called rewarding. This stimulates the brain and triggers dopamine releases. Why MMO are adictive has been established for a while now. And although socialising is part of it, the big reason is the rewards that trigger dopamine. Someone did a brain scan when someone was playing a game, that's what they saw.
Yes, but people can BECOME socially inept trying to obtain those things..
I'm not so sure about the wording you use though. I think people can become enclosed and shut themselves off.
Once you are socially adept, and understand how to sociallise, I don't think you can 'unlearn' it. Yes they will enclose themselves more but they should still be socially adept.
Originally posted by donjn I'm really not, you're merely attempting to deflect the cause of your social problems onto an external source. If the MMO made you socially inept, then it's not really your fault, is it? Yup, sorry. It really is. So you are going to say that addictions are the cognitive fault of the addicted and not their immediate surroundings, ingredients, or at birth pre-determined endorphin stimulation levels? I skipped them because they were redundant. Imagine if one was to say: "If you see an <insert ethnic group here> in the street then you're probably going to get robbed or maybe killed." You know darn well racial stereotypes are a WAY more sensitive issue. I appauld the strategic effort of using race, but now you are playing dirty.. If I was <insert ethnic group here> I might get a tad insulted at this statement, no? Adding "fluff" words doesn't detract from the generalisation one iota. We will have to agree to disagree here. I used those words because it it may not be true in all cases.
Hi, First, socially inept is way to hard. Second, Im a 23 year old guy, i live in a big city, there is nowere to go, there are no big parks, there is a lot of polution and i haven't found a place to meet people and just chat since I'm 16. Does that make me a socially inept? What is your suggestion? What do you think i should do? Maybe you will tell me, you should get a job, and i did. But I still can't find people to talk to, and besides, that is not the point of having a job. Maybe you will tell me, go to college. Socializing is not the point of going to college either. Maybe you will tell me, get a girlfriend? then i will ask you "Where?". After all the initial problem is that there is no place to hang out an meet people. Maybe you will tell me... you are just making it dificult. No I'm not! I'm a social guy, today I started a conversation with someone in the subway. And ended up having his mail. The problem is that he is arround 40 or something. I'm 23, i want to spend time with people of my age! So what is your magic suggestion now? should i addopt a kid so I can spend more time with my kids? Maybe I should stop posting in the forums and just play solitare, alone. Right now I'm not playing any online game beside savage 2. You see, your theory is right, but your point of view is completely worng. Yes MMOs addict people who don't have a social life, but that doesn't mean that they have any other place to go. Since WoW started i have seen the population grow, this is in part because big cities are becoming less social, people don't even talk anymore in my city, i don't know my neighbours, i only meet with 1 of my highscool friends, and he has a job, and he doesn't have much time to hang out. See what I mean? Yes, you are right, many people play MMOs to have a social life, others like me post in forums and some others take pictures of themelves and have flogs, or write blogs. This is not because we are incapable of socializing outside a computer, but because we don't have other place to socialize. Now, about the spit thing.... I think you are overeacting. I mean, he just typed /spit. WoW does not make comunicating between factions and easy task. It is true also that some people, given anonymity, act like morons. But this is a small portion. So, how old are your kids? have you considered that they may suffer from what other MMO gamers suffer... lack of a place to hang out with his friends? Maybe he won't because you live in the suburbs, maybe he will because you live in the big city. So, if you red this, answer somthing, just to let me know that you did, because i find important for people to understand that our society is starting to fall due to our lack of socialization, and MMOs are neither the problem nor the solution, they are just showing us what is happening with our world. PD (you don't have to answer this, is just so you know): about fallout 3 being a good book.... thats a matter of opinion, i think its a piece of crap and you have really bad taste by considering "a good book". But is my opinion, don't let it bother you much
People who think they can prove someone wrong by their "one, rare, example" are just as gulty as those who over-generalize.
Like I mentioned before "generalization" to me, means "higher percentage of". You may be very well limited in your choices, but you are not the norm.
You ask what have I done? I have started to call and hang out with my friends more often and I am giving my family more time. And if there is one person who reads my post and does the same, then I have done my job.
But then, of course, there will be cases like you. You have come up with just about every excuse under the sun NOT to socialize with the outside. And you went at great length to justify it.
Finally, this is my last point on Fallout 3. I think a lot of you are taking my "good book" quote too literally. Fallout 3 is one the highest rated RPGs of this year. It will most likely win a game of the year award. I am totally enjoying the quests and the storyline to this point. I have always felt that people on the MMORPG boards are elitists, and telling someone they have bad taste because they like Fallout 3 is just plain dumb.
But my point was, you are trying to generalize, but i tell you there is another generalization. Maybe you are talking about th 50% of the players, Im talking about the 30% and there is still another 20%.
Anyways, about fallout, that is why I left it for the end. Is a matter of opinion, I think the game is not very fallout, i hate how it looks and i think the dialogs are very, very bad. But i guess you like it....
That also proves how much you know the gaming world and its people.
Originally posted by donjn I'm really not, you're merely attempting to deflect the cause of your social problems onto an external source. If the MMO made you socially inept, then it's not really your fault, is it? Yup, sorry. It really is. So you are going to say that addictions are the cognitive fault of the addicted and not their immediate surroundings, ingredients, or at birth pre-determined endorphin stimulation levels?
Yup, if you become addicted to MMO's then it's your fault, not the MMOs. Anything else is just a cowardly attempt to not take responsibility for your own actions. I skipped them because they were redundant. Imagine if one was to say: "If you see an <insert ethnic group here> in the street then you're probably going to get robbed or maybe killed." You know darn well racial stereotypes are a WAY more sensitive issue. I appauld the strategic effort of using race, but now you are playing dirty.. Sorry, was there a question/statement in there somewhere, or were you just attempting to deflect a valid point? A generalisation is a generalisation regardless of the subject matter. If I was <insert ethnic group here> I might get a tad insulted at this statement, no? Adding "fluff" words doesn't detract from the generalisation one iota. We will have to agree to disagree here. I used those words because it it may not be true in all cases. If you're accepting that the basis of your argument is flawed, then you're also accepting that your argument is baseless.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Anyways, about fallout, that is why I left it for the end. Is a matter of opinion, I think the game is not very fallout, i hate how it looks and i think the dialogs are very, very bad. But i guess you like it.... That also proves how much you know the gaming world and its people.
Heh? So because I like Fallout and you dont that means I am out of touch with the "gaming world and it's people"?? I did not know that you represent the final word on Fallout. I seem to be reading that the game is quite popular with gamers AND critically acclaimed. I never said the writing is great. But immersion, overall story, combat, graphics, etc make it enjoyable. Now, I have read many fans of Fallout 1 and 2 who have their issues but nostalgia is a powerful drug. I dare you to go back and play those games. Some of the dialogue is brutal.
Yup, if you become addicted to MMO's then it's your fault, not the MMOs. Anything else is just a cowardly attempt to not take responsibility for your own actions. What about other addictions? Careful here... Because you lumped MMO addictions with all other addictions. If you're accepting that the basis of your argument is flawed, then
The condescending response you wrote above proves why I just don't like some people. The need you have to be "right" shows how flawed your personality is, and how insecure you are. So, you think that all arguments have a "winner" and a "loser", and you aren't going to stop until you win.
Comments
How do you meet people if you have that type attitude?
Why did you begin playing MMO's if you don't want to play with other people and already have it in your mind that you're not going to like them?
Doesn't that statement make you "socially inept" too?
I agree, some people do act like idiots online, saying things they would never dare say in person to somebody. You just have to grow thick skin. Or even better, get even, bring a few friends and corpse camp the moron until he logs off in disgust.
Some people (myself included) still have hope for MMORPG's as much as we complain on these boards. Players do have to put their money where their mouth is too, you can't blame WoW for the state of MMO's and have an account and log in every day.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Once upon a time there was a thing called roleplaying.
Roleplayers are people who play the game thru their character. They are not defined by their character in real life and often will not allow their own real life personality to define the character they're playing. If a RPers character fails at something in the game or is slighted by another's toon it has no reflection on the RPers themselves since they are not their toon and the life of their toon is not their own. They are telling their character's story every time they login whether other people are listening or not.
You've seen them around and have probably had many laughs at their expense, but trust me when I tell you they're laughing louder at their end because it's a story that they are telling and not a life that they are living.
All of you should try roleplaying.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Can I have your stuff?
ahahaha. Possibly the best post on this thread.
Good post tho OP, you started an interesting, though lopsided, debate. Reading through every post, it looks like most people disagree with you on your point, but then again, if what you said really had hit a nerve who wouldn't? And if you had hit a nerve, then some of what you originally said might be true.
Which FF Character Are You?
Well first of all by the same criteria you could say anything designed to make you sit in front of a computer rather than a go to a party is indicating your socially inept status. So I don’t think MMO’s are an indicator of social ineptitude otherwise so would shopping online and so on.
Second Life is a decent sandbox game, not great but about the best there is.
WoW helped finalise the translation from slow progress achievement MMO’s with decent RP tools to fast progress item and award MMO’s with hardly any RP tools. So it has certainly helped ruin MMO’s.
Neither SOE, Blizzard or EA are evil. I really think people need to get some perspective here. Hitler was evil, just because you have some issues with a company does not make it evil.
I agree with your analysis about trying to make MMO’s for everyone. That was always there as a factor from the offset, the problem is that marketing and business ideology has taken over games companies. While these are both absolutely necessary to run a MMO they are now in the driving seat with creativity and artistry in the car boot.
If you have issues playing with people MMO’s are just not for you.
I do play single player games, they keep me from MMO madness.
Microtransactions concern me too, we may be seeing another fundamental shift in MMO’s. We already have seen the dropping of RP content and achievement from MMORPG’s. Now we have items, medals, titles and PvP as the gold standard. We may see MMO’s change into games where what you purchase defines what you look like and can do.
In SL there is oodles of free stuff but money maketh the man in the end. I don’t see these new brands of MMO failing and I think our old MMO’s will go the way of adventure games… relegated to the boondocks on a poor mans budget.
I think I'd rather spend 200+ hours with other people in a MMORPG than alone in a single player RPG.
If anything I'd say the one who enjoys playing the same game, alone, for over 200+ hours is socially inept.
But, that 200+ hours could be over 100 days, two hours a day. The same can be said for MMORPGs.
So please think before you post, and don't make hasty generalizations.
The thing is, single player games dont have the reputation of addiction. This is because, by the time true addiction sets in, the game is over.
People who think they can prove someone wrong by their "one, rare, example" are just as gulty as those who over-generalize.
Like I mentioned before "generalization" to me, means "higher percentage of". You may be very well limited in your choices, but you are not the norm.
You ask what have I done? I have started to call and hang out with my friends more often and I am giving my family more time. And if there is one person who reads my post and does the same, then I have done my job.
But then, of course, there will be cases like you. You have come up with just about every excuse under the sun NOT to socialize with the outside. And you went at great length to justify it.
Finally, this is my last point on Fallout 3. I think a lot of you are taking my "good book" quote too literally. Fallout 3 is one the highest rated RPGs of this year. It will most likely win a game of the year award. I am totally enjoying the quests and the storyline to this point. I have always felt that people on the MMORPG boards are elitists, and telling someone they have bad taste because they like Fallout 3 is just plain dumb.
MMO addiction is nothing more than yet another socio-political bandwagon that's rolled out and merrily jumped upon by media organisations seeking sensationalism and political parties seeking to explain away the decline of moral values without acknowledging failures in their own policies.
The phenomenon simply does not exist (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7746471.stm) in any meaningful sense. One can be addicted to literally anything if your personality is sufficiently flawed.
Yes, including single-player games and forum trolling.
You can attempt to hide behind your generalisations by blurring the lines with "possibly" and "maybe", but they don't protect you from a good solid flaming for making a silly generalisation in the first place.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
How do you meet people if you have that type attitude?
Unless I am at work, I usually do not meet new people. I am lucky in that I have grown up and known 4 great friends who have not moved and lived in Los Angeles with me for 30 years. I have a wife and two kids, and have 3 friends at work, who I hang out with sometimes. I don't need to meet new people. Now, if I am at a party and meet new people, I certainly won't tell them "I dont like to meet new people"...lol
Why did you begin playing MMO's if you don't want to play with other people and already have it in your mind that you're not going to like them?
I began playing Ultima Online when I was 27 in 1997. It was amazing. And the first person I met online was a 15 year old girl in Austraillia who was excited about seeing Jurassic Park II: Lost World premiere there the next day. She had her tickets ready and could not wait. It was so amazing to me that I could chat with someone while we had characters in a game. Although this was not my first online conversation (80's Commodore 128 "Quantum Link" and early 90's BBS was before that), the conversation i had with her was my most memorable. Since then I have made new friends online. However, as the years have gone on I have met my share of jerks who ruin everything. And I am tired. For 10 years I have looked for groups and started new conversations. I am tired. I am tired of talking to people online...
Doesn't that statement make you "socially inept" too?
Yes and this is the WHOLE point of my topic. I am socially inept because I have spent too much time raiding and not enough times with my real life family and friends. I was hoping you guys could read between the lines a bit. But I am correcting things now..
I agree, some people do act like idiots online, saying things they would never dare say in person to somebody. You just have to grow thick skin. Or even better, get even, bring a few friends and corpse camp the moron until he logs off in disgust.
If in 10 years of playing MMOs I have not developed thick skin then I never will. What people say about me bothers me. I wish it didn't. Call me insecure or whatever you, but its the truth.
Some people (myself included) still have hope for MMORPG's as much as we complain on these boards. Players do have to put their money where their mouth is too, you can't blame WoW for the state of MMO's and have an account and log in every day.
I wish more of us at MMORPG would put their money where their mouth is. A lot of us talk about quitting but very few have. And yes, I am sure I will return again if the game is right. I am basically just taking a long break..
MMO addiction is nothing more than yet another socio-political bandwagon that's rolled out and merrily jumped upon by media organisations seeking sensationalism and political parties seeking to explain away the decline of moral values without acknowledging failures in their own policies.
The phenomenon simply does not exist (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7746471.stm) in any meaningful sense. One can be addicted to literally anything if your personality is sufficiently flawed.
Yes, including single-player games and forum trolling.
You can attempt to hide behind your generalisations by blurring the lines with "possibly" and "maybe", but they don't protect you from a good solid flaming for making a silly generalisation in the first place.
Conspiracy theory much? So you are going to actually tell me that MMOs do not have "time sinks" and "carrot on a stick" ways to keep people online and addicted? The point is YES ANYTHING CAN BECOME AND ADDICTION. However, MMOs PURPOSELY GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO LURE YOU INTO THE ADDICTION. You are completely missing my point.
I am sorry, but I wont stand for you mis-reading what I wrote and then justifying it as flame bait.
My point still stands. I used "possibly and maybe". You failed to read them and completely skipped those words. That is your problem with reading comprehension. It is not my issue. Don't confuse your reading comprehension issues with someone blurring the lines. Clearly "possibly and maybe" mean "not everyone".
But please go on...this is entertaining..
So what about regular multiplayer games?
I don't play MMORPGs anymore either, but that's because I play games for a different reason than most MMORPG players. Most of the people on this site are looking for escape from real life and "immersion" in a fantasy world. I play for compitition and diversion from everyday life so "immersion" isn't a big deal to me. Although the people on this site are little different from people I've actually met in MMORPGs.
For the most part I think you're dead on about people using MMORPGs as a proxy for a social life. I tend to use my job in this manner. I remember running into a woman at work a couple of years back that I was suprised to find out played Second Life. It was surprising to me because she seemed like the kind of person I would find playing cards on Yahoo rather than someone computer savy enough for SL(she was a 60 year old grandmother of three). Generally, the people that I meet in MMORPGs are just there to hang out with other people. But back to my original point....
I play probably just as many hours of CoD4, Dawn of War, Soul Calibur, as well as older games like Quake 3, Counter-Strike and Starcraft. I'm not playing multiplayer games out of any need to be social, although I occasionally get some good conversations in RTS games and during fighting games on XBox live; I'm playing multiplayer games to compete and take my mind off of everyday matters for awhile. You can see games as movies or theme park rides, but not everyone feels that way.
I guess good riddens, I dont' want to play with you either. I may be an addict, but I talk to more people than you ever will. I'm like your friend, I log into a game and get a minimum of 20 PMs and I like it that way. I never leave my house and my doctor thinks that the ability to communicate with others in anyway is better than just sitting around inside. So yeah I'm addicted to social interaction, so how am I socially inept?
Here we have the crux of the thread.
You're an antisocial MMO player who wants to "blame" the MMO genre for your social ineptness.
"It weren't me, guv.. it were the MMO wot done it."
Sorry, but no. If it wasn't MMOs, it would have been some other form of escapism that you would have gravitated towards.
I applaud your decision to resolve the flaws in your character, but not the manner in which you're deflecting "the blame" for them onto an external source.
At some point in time, you made a conscious decision to become the man you are today.
Your fault, no-one elses.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
There is no way your K is only 6%...
- Burying Threads Since 1979 -
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
People don't become addicted because they are socially inept.
It's because the brain gives of dopamine on succeses.
Have you ever wondered why everything in MMO is about succeses??
-LEVELS
-ITEMS
-RAID KILLS
-PROFESSION SKILL UPS
-QUEST SUCCESES
It's called rewarding. This stimulates the brain and triggers dopamine releases. Why MMO are adictive has been established for a while now. And although socialising is part of it, the big reason is the rewards that trigger dopamine.
Someone did a brain scan when someone was playing a game, that's what they saw.
That's why cheating is so succesfull in these games.
That's why people grind. That's why people who are honest people WANT to cheat.
It's the dopamine releases in their brain, or rather, the successes that trigger it, AKA the grind.
But it is not just because players are socially inept. A LOT of MMO players are socially adept but they still get addicted. It's the dopamine.
I guess good riddens, I dont' want to play with you either. I may be an addict, but I talk to more people than you ever will. I'm like your friend, I log into a game and get a minimum of 20 PMs and I like it that way. I never leave my house and my doctor thinks that the ability to communicate with others in anyway is better than just sitting around inside. So yeah I'm addicted to social interaction, so how am I socially inept?
I had a response planned but never mind. I can't stop laughing at your avatar. Very funny.
Yes, but people can BECOME socially inept trying to obtain those things..
Yes, but people can BECOME socially inept trying to obtain those things..
I'm not so sure about the wording you use though. I think people can become enclosed and shut themselves off.
Once you are socially adept, and understand how to sociallise, I don't think you can 'unlearn' it. Yes they will enclose themselves more but they should still be socially adept.
People who think they can prove someone wrong by their "one, rare, example" are just as gulty as those who over-generalize.
Like I mentioned before "generalization" to me, means "higher percentage of". You may be very well limited in your choices, but you are not the norm.
You ask what have I done? I have started to call and hang out with my friends more often and I am giving my family more time. And if there is one person who reads my post and does the same, then I have done my job.
But then, of course, there will be cases like you. You have come up with just about every excuse under the sun NOT to socialize with the outside. And you went at great length to justify it.
Finally, this is my last point on Fallout 3. I think a lot of you are taking my "good book" quote too literally. Fallout 3 is one the highest rated RPGs of this year. It will most likely win a game of the year award. I am totally enjoying the quests and the storyline to this point. I have always felt that people on the MMORPG boards are elitists, and telling someone they have bad taste because they like Fallout 3 is just plain dumb.
But my point was, you are trying to generalize, but i tell you there is another generalization. Maybe you are talking about th 50% of the players, Im talking about the 30% and there is still another 20%.
Anyways, about fallout, that is why I left it for the end. Is a matter of opinion, I think the game is not very fallout, i hate how it looks and i think the dialogs are very, very bad. But i guess you like it....
That also proves how much you know the gaming world and its people.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift