SOE Games = subscriptions + microtransactions

Malvolentia

http://www.massively.com/2008/12/09/station-cash-now-available-in-eq-and-eqii/

 

Unless shelling out 50 dollars a month + a subscription sounds like a good idea to you to compete, you might want to think about moving on to a different game.  As far as I know EQ is one of the first subscription based games to also begin poking micro in. 

This after the President said it would never happen

Only a fool with a lot of money will enjoy SOE games

Valeran

I can't remember the article but Smed said his vision was to have a subscription base with microtransactions.  The store and the TCG are just the beginning...they are easing their way into it to slowly gain acceptance.

liverdamage

Is anybody honestly surprised that SOE would go this direction? They obviously can't make enough money on subscriptions because their games aren't good enough.

Like I've said before...we just have to hope that SOE fails so spectacularly with this scheme that other developers won't think about doing it.

lightning-rd

No, SWG now is:  Few subscriptions+MACROTRANSCAM via the TCG a harcore (lol) bunch of NGE fanbois who will spend hundreds of dollars on TCG "decks" to get the ever increasing in outrageousness in game items.

The NGE is now THE MOST expensive MMORPG ever released to play in terms of $$$ the publisher expects of you to experience everything. 

Sadly, I might have been willing to pay $30/mo to play a fully developed Pre-CU...  Not a broken WOW clone with lightsabers, sorry.  I'll stick with EVE which is sanbox, which has no levels, which is skills based, which has NO LIMIT to the skills you can earn, which gets an expansion every 4-6 months and it costs me nothing but my regular sub fee to get all of it.

That is why CCP is now by far a larger industry player than SOE.  There are three top names in MMORPGs today, anyone else is largely irrelevant...  Blizzard...  Turbine....  CCP.

 

Scalebane

Must be a slow news day.

Scot

We get some posting on here who think micro transactions are the way forward though I am not one of them. Where do you get the 50$ a month + subscription from? Or is this plucked out of thin air to make your OP more alarmist?

However it’s a worrying trend, I don’t see any difference between pay as you go for new content and paying for an expansion. When you start to get into the area of buying items, I do question that model. But that model is already there with gold sellers and eBay purchases, in some ways this is SOE’s way of cashing in on that rather than allowing other companies and individuals to make a profit from it. Also its not clear to me how much buying of items there is, what are TCG ‘decks’ for example?

I am happy with the idea of the games proprietors raking that money in rather than third party companies. But legitimising something that is detrimental to the game is questionable. Also unless players feel that any extra revenue is being pumped back into the game they will rightly question their continued loyalty.

Reklaw

Originally posted by Malvolentia


http://www.massively.com/2008/12/09/station-cash-now-available-in-eq-and-eqii/
 
Unless shelling out 50 dollars a month + a subscription sounds like a good idea to you to compete, you might want to think about moving on to a different game.  As far as I know EQ is one of the first subscription based games to also begin poking micro in. 
This after the President said it would never happen
Only a fool with a lot of money will enjoy SOE games

 

WOW...SOE is asking 50 dollars a month AND a subfee.............?

Kniknax

 Sorry to inject a small amount of realism into your obviously well researched post, but SOE is only asking for a subscription. But, if you want to level an alt quicker with an hour XP boost, or have a some fluff hat with no stats, you can buy it for a couple of cents. Or don't. Theres no "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS OMFGARGHHH!!!one!!".

This gives you zero advantage over anyone else, and has been used by other games to good effect. Hell, Ultima Online have been selling high level boosted characters for years!!! All SOE is doing is selling some xp boosts, which, for people who dont play 24 hours a day due to a little thing called work, is actually quite helpful as you can keep up with friends. 

 

Malvolentia

Originally posted by Scot


We get some posting on here who think micro transactions are the way forward though I am not one of them. Where do you get the 50$ a month + subscription from? Or is this plucked out of thin air to make your OP more alarmist?
However it’s a worrying trend, I don’t see any difference between pay as you go for new content and paying for an expansion. When you start to get into the area of buying items, I do question that model. But that model is already there with gold sellers and eBay purchases, in some ways this is SOE’s way of cashing in on that rather than allowing other companies and individuals to make a profit from it. Also its not clear to me how much buying of items there is, what are TCG ‘decks’ for example?
I am happy with the idea of the games proprietors raking that money in rather than third party companies. But legitimising something that is detrimental to the game is questionable. Also unless players feel that any extra revenue is being pumped back into the game they will rightly question their continued loyalty.

 

I admittingly plucked 50 dollars out of thin air.  Although consider a hypothetical scenario where many people played a micro game day and night and a big chunk of thier disposable income was available.  I think I was being kind.  If certain items were placed up for sell you'd better believe they'll be people dishing out the cash.  You're not going to?  No big deal, you'll just be left behind

Malvolentia

Originally posted by jayanti


 Sorry to inject a small amount of realism into your obviously well researched post, but SOE is only asking for a subscription. But, if you want to level an alt quicker with an hour XP boost, or have a some fluff hat with no stats, you can buy it for a couple of cents. Or don't. Theres no "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS OMFGARGHHH!!!one!!".
This gives you zero advantage over anyone else, and has been used by other games to good effect. Hell, Ultima Online have been selling high level boosted characters for years!!! All SOE is doing is selling some xp boosts, which, for people who dont play 24 hours a day due to a little thing called work, is actually quite helpful as you can keep up with friends. 
 

 

And you're seriously naive enough to think the items are going to remain fluff?  Especially after they promised you they were NEVER going to put station cash on non-station cash servers.  Get real man

Vesavius

Originally posted by jayanti


 Sorry to inject a small amount of realism into your obviously well researched post, but SOE is only asking for a subscription. But, if you want to level an alt quicker with an hour XP boost, or have a some fluff hat with no stats, you can buy it for a couple of cents. Or don't. Theres no "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS OMFGARGHHH!!!one!!".
This gives you zero advantage over anyone else, and has been used by other games to good effect. Hell, Ultima Online have been selling high level boosted characters for years!!! All SOE is doing is selling some xp boosts, which, for people who dont play 24 hours a day due to a little thing called work, is actually quite helpful as you can keep up with friends. 
 

 

God, here we go again.

• SOE is asking for a sub (essential), game/ expansion purchase (essential), Station Players extras (fluff, but should be part of a basic service), LoN purchases (fluff), and MT (a mixture). This is a lot of player 'investment' in a game that could be profitable on the original EQ model.
• SOE's MT sells xp/ mana potions to aid faster levelling and armour packages that are solid gear. These are not fluff and effect the core progression systems in these games. A player paying to use xp potions has a BIG advantage over a player choosing not to.
• If my guild usues these potions, as an example, then I will have to as well to keep with them. This removes the illusion of 'choice' that mst pro-MT people have. Once MT is in a game in truth all real choice vanishes, as demonstrated by your 'to keep up with friends' statement.
• The fact that you are paying now to level as a way of 'keeping up with friends' is EXACTLY how MT companies make money off you. In a game with alts and mentoring, these should never be required, but they know how easy a gaming addiciton is to exploit, and exploit it they will.
• Plenty of people that succeed honestly in these games work. They just succeed over a longer period of time then the hardcore levellers.
• MT is sold on the greed of the casual gamer, who wants the same as some others around him NOW, rather then waiting to put in the effort and gain the knowledge to win it in game.
• MT destroys the very core elements that makes games games. It turns MMORPG into a just a commercial virtual environment, the same as Sony's PS3 Home is. In turn, lazy instant gratification gamers are enabling them to do this, and so are themselves killing games.
• Despite the spin and propaganda given out by the big dev corps, MT benefits noone but them. Not the games, and not the gamer. They are more profitable then (the already profitable) sub model and, therefore, cost you as a player more. Those extra profits can only come from YOU. Think about that. They rely on your gaming addiciton to slowly bleed your money from your wallet in small enoug drops so you don't notice anything until it's too late.

Enough realism for you?

Pay to Exist vs Play to Achieve. I want to Play to Achieve.

obii

Ultima Online has this concept for a few years and it seems to keep the game alive.

JMadisonIV

any game that uses Microtransactions should not also use a Subscription fee. and I'd argue that they should not charge for the game itself either.

but the way I see it, F2P with Cash Shop  is going to slowly become the norm. it's been the norm for years in Asia, and it will gradually catch on in the West.  especially once some company finally manages to strike the correct balance between desirable cash shop items and not letting the cash shop unbalance the game.

also, for the people who are so vigorously against Microtransactions, I hope none of you own a Wi/PS3/XBox 360.  because when you get your Map Packs, XBLA/PSN games WiiWare, Virtual Console games and Downloadable Content...it's really no different from a Cash Shop.  You are paying real money for virtual currency in order to buy items from a virtual shop.  same idea, different product. and you pay 50 dollars a year for XBox Live on top of that.

that said, SOE sucks, they are by far the worst major MMO developer there is, and it would take a whole lot and a near-perfect game to convince me to play something bearing their logo again.

Vesavius

Originally posted by JMadisonIV


any game that uses Microtransactions should not also use a Subscription fee. and I'd argue that they should not charge for the game itself either.
but the way I see it, F2P with Cash Shop  is going to slowly become the norm. it's been the norm for years in Asia, and it will gradually catch on in the West.  especially once some company finally manages to strike the correct balance between desirable cash shop items and not letting the cash shop unbalance the game.
It's gonna become the norm because of the laziness of users will buy into the Pay to Exist model. It's for the gamer's, not the users as MT defines, but the gamers to stop this. If the gamers are seduced by the proganda and spin then they will have a clear path to full MT.
While I like a lot of what comes out of the Far East culturally, there is a lot about their gaming that I do not want here. MT is one of them. Just because it has happened in the East, it does NOT mean it's inevitable here. I honestly do not understand why so many think that.
All it takes is for real gamers, and by that I mean people who enjoy games and play to achieve as opposed to users who are happy/ brain dead enough to pay to exist, to say no.
I for one will never support a game that has any form of MT.
Take a look at PS3 Home if you want to see where corps want to see mmo spaces ending up.
Commercial virtual environments spondored by advertising and funded by MT that are full of mini games that exist only to drag you into a product and take more money off you.
This is mmo designed by accountants, not by gamers.
also, for the people who are so vigorously against Microtransactions, I hope none of you own a Wi/PS3/XBox 360.  because when you get your Map Packs, XBLA/PSN games WiiWare, Virtual Console games and Downloadable Content...it's really no different from a Cash Shop.  You are paying real money for virtual currency in order to buy items from a virtual shop.  same idea, different product. and you pay 50 dollars a year for XBox Live on top of that.
What has that got to do with mmorpgs on the PC?
It seems that you are trying to muddy the waters of the debate by talking about how another platform works... Well, I say 'who cares'?
Let the consoles do what they wanna do, there is plenty that happens gamewise on them that I do not want to see come over to PCs and mmorpgs. MT is one of them.
You seem to be a very, 'well, it's happened there, so it must happen here' kinda guy... I hope soon you realise that this isnt true, and honest, open, clear billing for the games we play is a thing to be valued and fought for.
I will say again, MT destroys the very thing that makes games games. If you are any kind of achievement gamer, and by that I mean a person who enjoys challenge and learning then beating a game by your own knowledge and skill, this should matter to you.

 

Gravarg

Coming Soon to an SOE game near you...

 

Low level with Unique gear* - $50

Mid level with Unique gear* - $100

Max Level with Unique gear* - $150

Sword of a Thousand Souls - $200  (has 50 million dps!)

Armor of the Immortal - $200 (has 50 million armor rating!)

Lootbot 9000 - $50 (auto-loots and holds unlimited items)

 

*Note - All bought characters will also recieve a special ability called OMGDEAD, you use it and it kills everything in a dungeon

 

OK so maybe I exaggerated a little, but it wouldn't suprise me if SOE started offering super elite cash-shop only items, or powerleveling services.  Most games and gamers want to get rid of goldsellers and powerlevel services, SOE wants to become one...

Scot

I don't see anything wrong with microtransaction fluff. Increased xp is questionable but as yet I see no armour sets etc up for sale, that for me would cross the line.

Ravanos

Originally posted by Malvolentia

Originally posted by jayanti


 Sorry to inject a small amount of realism into your obviously well researched post, but SOE is only asking for a subscription. But, if you want to level an alt quicker with an hour XP boost, or have a some fluff hat with no stats, you can buy it for a couple of cents. Or don't. Theres no "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS OMFGARGHHH!!!one!!".
This gives you zero advantage over anyone else, and has been used by other games to good effect. Hell, Ultima Online have been selling high level boosted characters for years!!! All SOE is doing is selling some xp boosts, which, for people who dont play 24 hours a day due to a little thing called work, is actually quite helpful as you can keep up with friends. 
 

 

And you're seriously naive enough to think the items are going to remain fluff?  Especially after they promised you they were NEVER going to put station cash on non-station cash servers.  Get real man

 

they have had RMT in game for longer than you think ... wtf do you think LON is? what that most of those players farmed those cards and got them to drop in game? no they bought them with real life cash. many bought them solely for the loot cards which have REMAINED FLUFF since the creation of LON.

if they were going to add powerful items they would have done it to LON since its the luck of the draw that determines if you get a loot card or not.

I really wonder what the reaction will be when blizzard does it ... oh wait they are always right and saints they can do no wrong!

Cik_Asalin

Whats laughable is that anyone would be surprised by microtransations since they've been prevalent in mmos over that past 20+ years, particularly in the form of gold sellers.

leinad312

Originally posted by Scot


I don't see anything wrong with microtransaction fluff. Increased xp is questionable but as yet I see no armour sets etc up for sale, that for me would cost the line.

 

The phrase is *cross the line.

Malvolentia

Originally posted by Scot


I don't see anything wrong with microtransaction fluff. Increased xp is questionable but as yet I see no armour sets etc up for sale, that for me would cost the line.

 

Then I guess we have nothing to worry about amrite?  Cause why would they ever add the most wanted equipment in the game for cash 

Slampig

"Unless shelling out 50 dollars a month + a subscription ..."

What game are you playing?

 

Just curious...

 

By the way, here we go again...thread, meet the dead horse, horse, meet yet ANOTHER played out thread...

 

I am also still wondering where it says you are forced to use the cash store...if any of you could point that out to me, that might make me take off my anti-SOE tin foil hat...then again I still wish SOE would bring back my baby...blaming those dingos....

 

Ilvaldyr

Really can't see what all the fuss is about.

It's just a business model; it'll succeed or fail depending on the customer.

If you don't like item-shops in games then don't buy things from them; if everyone has the same attitude then the item-shop model will fail and be abandoned in favour of a business model that is more profitable.

If that doesn't happen and the item-shop flourishes as the community accepts them, then you will have to accept that you're a minority and look for a niche title that better suits your needs.

MMO's can't please everyone; the big budget ones target the mainstream majority, but there will always be niche games that cater specifically to different attitudes and playstyles. It's unreasonable to expect a huge-budgeted AAA title for a niche market; it just doesn't make sense for them to do that from a business standpoint.

Liljna

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin


Whats laughable is that anyone would be surprised by microtransations since they've been prevalent in mmos over that past 20+ years, particularly in the form of gold sellers.

 

I think I mentioned this the last time you said this, so I will try again, just in another way. You continue to use the 20+ years with mmo's, so...

What mmo's were out there in 1989 and what mmo's are even older than that?

What kind of internet do you think we had back in 1989? (Hint, I told you in the last thread).

Do you know how old the whole system of microtransactions is?

 

Scot

HTTP was only invented in 1989.

MMO's in 1989 were me and my mates down the arcade playing the same game on different arcade machines and seeing who could get the furthest before ‘GAME OVER’. 

 

Reklaw

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by JMadisonIV


any game that uses Microtransactions should not also use a Subscription fee. and I'd argue that they should not charge for the game itself either.
but the way I see it, F2P with Cash Shop  is going to slowly become the norm. it's been the norm for years in Asia, and it will gradually catch on in the West.  especially once some company finally manages to strike the correct balance between desirable cash shop items and not letting the cash shop unbalance the game.
It's gonna become the norm because of the laziness of users will buy into the Pay to Exist model. It's for the gamer's, not the users as MT defines, but the gamers to stop this. If the gamers are seduced by the proganda and spin then they will have a clear path to full MT.
While I like a lot of what comes out of the Far East culturally, there is a lot about their gaming that I do not want here. MT is one of them. Just because it has happened in the East, it does NOT mean it's inevitable here. I honestly do not understand why so many think that.
All it takes is for real gamers, and by that I mean people who enjoy games and play to achieve as opposed to users who are happy/ brain dead enough to pay to exist, to say no.
I for one will never support a game that has any form of MT.
Take a look at PS3 Home if you want to see where corps want to see mmo spaces ending up.
Commercial virtual environments spondored by advertising and funded by MT that are full of mini games that exist only to drag you into a product and take more money off you.
This is mmo designed by accountants, not by gamers.
also, for the people who are so vigorously against Microtransactions, I hope none of you own a Wi/PS3/XBox 360.  because when you get your Map Packs, XBLA/PSN games WiiWare, Virtual Console games and Downloadable Content...it's really no different from a Cash Shop.  You are paying real money for virtual currency in order to buy items from a virtual shop.  same idea, different product. and you pay 50 dollars a year for XBox Live on top of that.
What has that got to do with mmorpgs on the PC?
It seems that you are trying to muddy the waters of the debate by talking about how another platform works... Well, I say 'who cares'?
Let the consoles do what they wanna do, there is plenty that happens gamewise on them that I do not want to see come over to PCs and mmorpgs. MT is one of them.
You seem to be a very, 'well, it's happened there, so it must happen here' kinda guy... I hope soon you realise that this isnt true, and honest, open, clear billing for the games we play is a thing to be valued and fought for.
I will say again, MT destroys the very thing that makes games games. If you are any kind of achievement gamer, and by that I mean a person who enjoys challenge and learning then beating a game by your own knowledge and skill, this should matter to you.

 

I definitely care and truly dislike MT, but I am afraid....very afraid that it will become a more common thing then we  "Gamers "would like it  to be, you see what people expect from games these day's, on forums countless of topics explain just how inpatients today's generation is, I see the gold sites flourishing all over the INTERNET, many if not most exist due to demand, the demand seems to be high, I am even highly surprised to have seen several people on forums like this one who I've thought to be true  "gamers" to also get into that MT type of game, where they will find all sorts of excuses, mostly related to time, it's as if they not playing a game but more working on a job.

Like another poster said that on console it's common practice to buy items/quest/updates/whatevers with extra cash and knowing we are going to get into a era where the MMORPG scene will slightly be on consoles, though I am not expecting to see the best of MMORPG on consoles with this generation, but feel that the next gen. consoles (Xbox720,PS4) might provide the beginning of the true next gen MMORPG and since it's almost common practice that most online-console players know they might need to pay a extra dime MT might already be common practice

So overall I truly fear it will become a bigger reality then we want it to be.

I don't want to pay for extra items in game that is if I am paying a monthly subfee, I don't like MT so I choose to simply not play F2P games that have any form of MT. I am glad there are games made for with MT in it so that those who want to play them have the choice to do so, but like I said I am afraid that it might be, and if not be then might become more common across all type of games not only MMORPG, but any game that is connected to the internet, and we all see that not only MMO's or Multiplayer games require a online connection, we get more and more single player games that require you to be online or login in to a account (online), We already have lots of single player games that offered different armor/weapons/items/quests that you had to buy online (Oblivion comes to mind as probably the most common but also and many more), I don't feel it will take long before some form of MT happening in even more games, even in single player games.

I am not a achiever as in someone that wants to achieve something ingame in a limited amount of time but I do want to achieve certain goals like anyone else, but I choose to do so in my own time, while my time is very limited I already know that when I find a MMORPG that suites me it is going to take me a very long time to ever even reach max lvl, but thats the thing I use to like with MMORPG, there was no rush, of course there was from many players, but it was more balanced, in my opinion, the rush type of players out number the patient type of players these day's there for MT might become a bigger reality then we "GAMERS" want to to be.

VengeSunsoar

Oh I don't think it will be gamers that will stop MT.  I've only been around in MMO's since Kunark EQ.  Gamers are the ones that were demanding MT.  Gamers have always looked for hacks, exploits, cheats, ways to take advantage of the system in MMO"s and single player gamess alike.

They have always been there, now because there are users as you define them, there are just more people looking to take advantage.

Venge Sunsoar