I sincerely hope that Bioware COMPLETELY ignores the wishes of the SWG crafting community. I personally don't want any element of that crap in this game. Frankly I wish they would create a whole new massive called World of OnlyCraft that catered completely to the crafters and merchants so that they won't play whatever game I am playing.
Why are you so hostile towards crafters?
How did we ruin the SWG experience for you?
Will someone in this forum community please explain to me why there is so much subtle(and not so subtle) hostility towards crafting and crafters? (in general,irregardless of a particular game)
I really am at a loss?
Because the economy, the accumulation of wealth, and the inevitable necessity of replacing your kit was the centerpiece of the game, rather than, you know... Star Wars.
What became the "centerpiece" of the game was not designed by the crafting community.
Crafters simply opted to make the most of the game design that was presented to them.<-----This was our crime? Pfft!
Your explanation does not justify the hostility that was and is leveled at the crafting community of SWG.
I sincerely hope that Bioware COMPLETELY ignores the wishes of the SWG crafting community. I personally don't want any element of that crap in this game. Frankly I wish they would create a whole new massive called World of OnlyCraft that catered completely to the crafters and merchants so that they won't play whatever game I am playing.
Why are you so hostile towards crafters?
How did we ruin the SWG experience for you?
Will someone in this forum community please explain to me why there is so much subtle(and not so subtle) hostility towards crafting and crafters? (in general,irregardless of a particular game)
I really am at a loss?
Because the economy, the accumulation of wealth, and the inevitable necessity of replacing your kit was the centerpiece of the game, rather than, you know... Star Wars.
What became the "centerpiece" of the game was not designed by the crafting community.
Crafters simply opted to make the most of the game design that was presented to them.<-----This was our crime? Pfft!
Your explanation does not justify the hostility that was and is leveled at the crafting community of SWG.
It wasn't my fault they left the bank vault open, I simply made the most of the opportunity presented to me.
And seriously, can we stop equating "crafters" with merchants?
I could not agree more. I can only hope that Bioware can bring the Star Wars community back together, or at least bring back the epic struggle of Light vs. Dark. I dont mind the crafters, though. I played a lot late at night and most of the time the server was a bit empty. Of course that became much more noticeable as they changed the game to make it more like WOW. If we had wanted to play WOW we would have bought and subscribed to WOW. But as I would play alone sometimes it was nice to have harvestor to check on and resources to craft new weapons and/or armor to pass the time. It was nice being able to PVP if you wanted and craft when you didnt have people online to PVP with. Nevertheless it is really a mute point now. SWG is dead for intense purposes. Our sad devotion to this ancient games hasnt help us convince the Devlopers to change the game to how we want it. There unwavering belief that they have always improved the game has been our demise. We are all thats left of this dying culture. And it is time to move on. I am glad LA (Lucas Arts) went to bioware. I hope that can give us a game to bring the Star Wars fans back together in a world filled with turmoil and new challenges. Give us a game that will have us playing till the server resets!!! Thats what we all want.!!!
SWG was awful at launch. Really, but that did not keep people from loving it. And for good reasons. Even though the game was horrible (by default) it featured alot that at least I never could have guessed a game could offer. It was unique, deep and gave the whole "roleplaying" aspect a new fresh look. Today, post NGE, I pity anyone who says anything positive about the product. It no longer deserves to be called SWG. It's name, is NGE.
so let me guess you like to play that WoW piece of crap of a game. Yes i still play SWG or NGE or SWGNGE or what ever the hell you want to call it, i do it becuase its my money and i do whatever the hell i want to. And those are your opinions and you do what ever you want to bottom line. There are people that like the game still and still there are alot that hate the game.
I think it is unfair to equate the idea of a more action-oriented game with WOW. I don't understand why people always seem to make that jump... if its not super-sandbox like SWG, then its WOW. By this reasoning, there are only two types of game. This is a flawed argument and it is not at all what I think most of us non-crafters want.
Just because many of us don't want a game that is as heavily craft-oriented as SWG doesn't mean we want the game to be like WOW! I personally am hoping for something very far from WOW (even though I played it for a very long time). For me, the idea of a highly story-driven MMORPG in the Bioware tradition sounds great! WOW is not at all the same type of game. What Bioware is talking about has really never been done before. A game that is always different depending on the personal choices of your character... A game where the quests are not always EXACTLY the same and your actions can actually have a lasting effect on the world. I can't tell you how appealing that is to me.
Some of you might argue that SWG had this lasting effect element I am talking about, but I disagree... The only thing that actually really changed on the planets were the houses and the player-vendors. It never had anything to do with the story or the conflict. In fact, that whole element of the game was stagnant and unchanging from day one. Before SWG came out, I wondered how they were going to make an interesting game set in a time-period that can't move or change at all due to the movie-based storyline. As it turned out, they failed to do that. Thats probably why I never felt immersed... That and the fact that I don't like to make or sell digital goods.
I think it is unfair to equate the idea of a more action-oriented game with WOW. I don't understand why people always seem to make that jump... if its not super-sandbox like SWG, then its WOW. By this reasoning, there are only two types of game. This is a flawed argument and it is not at all what I think most of us non-crafters want. Just because many of us don't want a game that is as heavily craft-oriented as SWG doesn't mean we want the game to be like WOW! I personally am hoping for something very far from WOW (even though I played it for a very long time). For me, the idea of a highly story-driven MMORPG in the Bioware tradition sounds great! WOW is not at all the same type of game. What Bioware is talking about has really never been done before. A game that is always different depending on the personal choices of your character... A game where the quests are not always EXACTLY the same and your actions can actually have a lasting effect on the world. I can't tell you how appealing that is to me. Some of you might argue that SWG had this lasting effect element I am talking about, but I disagree... The only thing that actually really changed on the planets were the houses and the player-vendors. It never had anything to do with the story or the conflict. In fact, that whole element of the game was stagnant and unchanging from day one. Before SWG came out, I wondered how they were going to make an interesting game set in a time-period that can't move or change at all due to the movie-based storyline. As it turned out, they failed to do that. Thats probably why I never felt immersed... That and the fact that I don't like to make or sell digital goods.
I agree,it is unfair and innappropriate to divide every game developed into either one of two camps.
It is also equally unfair and inappropriate(and IMO illegal or it should be) for the publishers and developers of online games to market EVERY game released,under the umbrella term MMORPG. I am not an attorney or market analyst,it is just the humble opinion and unshakeable belief of this layman that this "umbrella" practice of marketing online games is at the least false advertising and at worst outright fraud. It needs to STOP.
For the record,I don't want Bioware to develop SWG 2. I have absolutely no beef with Bioware's vision and development of SW:TOR. I simply want truth and transparency to become the SOP of game designers and publishers.
Is a "mission statement" or basic template of game design revealed to the public far in advance of launch to much to ask for from the developers? No vital facts or anything that would jeopardize the propriety of the product, just the basics.(of game type)
I and am positve 10's of thousands like me(at least) are fed up with the vague,misleading and overly hyped dev blogs and the constant obfuscation of what these products really are.
I could really careless if another online game is ever developed that appeals to my playstyle,let the market and the majority opinion of the playerbase rule....BUT..... stop redefining and using the term MMORPG as an umbrella term to market games that fall so far outside the original definition of the term at the time it was coined and as it pertained to the products of the day that defined it. This is IMO grossly inappropiate at best.
I am the last person to call for any restrictions or regulation of the free market and I find myself quite surprised to be making this suggestion, but perhaps it is time for an independent body using a standardized rating system (not unlike the movie rating system) to be forcefully implemented on the developer/publisher before the marketing of these games can commence.
When a developer(Bioware) makes a blanket statement regarding their current project SW:TOR to the affect of "The game will have something for everybody old and new alike"(sorry I know this is not verbatim) whether you are a fan or foe of the game can you honestly defend this statement as being "responsible or ethical"? It is akin IMO to marketing a unicycle as having "something for everyone",it is absurd.
The playerbase/public/consumer has been abused and buffaloed long enough. Time for a change.
Did you play SWG? Look, post this question in the SWG section where it belongs. This game isnt SWG its SWTOR so stop falling into your memories because when you all find out this game isnt anything like SWG you'll remember how many people u agrivated talking about it. Anyways heres a section of an msn convo I had with a mate of mine whos a PreCU PreNGE SWG player:
"""
Zeiyan - Oh theres a forum thread on jedi not being a starting class, when it obviously will be.
Dark - thats good that means u will have 2 earn it. it was main screw up of nge was making jedi a playerble class
Zeiyan - yeah a big part of this game "TOR" is about being a jedi, doing the training in an academy living like a jedi embracing the game like that, and dark this is TOR not SWG, its bioware not soe. I know swg is your heart an soul but u gotta come around that an see TOR for what it is, its starwars but its a different game
Dark - i know but making jedi a beginner class would mess it up straight away
Zeiyan - No, no it wouldnt. it wont so trust bioware
Dark - yea it would if u want a entire server full of jedi lol
Zeiyan - they know their shit and lucas arts watched swg crumble, they know what to do an when to do it, Dark trust them.
"""
SWG players, EX- SWG players give it a rest. This is SW yes but its a different game. Dont compare the two games please. Bioware aren't making this game because people miss SWG an want a new one, they made it to carry the story of KOTOR on a bigger scale. TOR wont be a refuge for SWG or Ex- SWG players will it? No. Because its a DIFFERENT GAME. Sooo get over it. xD Thanks for reading my rant.
Originally posted by Jackarro It is also equally unfair and inappropriate(and IMO illegal or it should be) for the publishers and developers of online games to market EVERY game released,under the umbrella term MMORPG. I am not an attorney or market analyst,it is just the humble opinion and unshakeable belief of this layman that this "umbrella" practice of marketing online games is at the least false advertising and at worst outright fraud. It needs to STOP.
No offense, but you're just being silly. The term MMORPG has meant different things to different people since it was first coined over ten years ago. Hell, most gamers still can't agree with consensus about what even the term RPG means.
Originally posted by Jackarro It is also equally unfair and inappropriate(and IMO illegal or it should be) for the publishers and developers of online games to market EVERY game released,under the umbrella term MMORPG. I am not an attorney or market analyst,it is just the humble opinion and unshakeable belief of this layman that this "umbrella" practice of marketing online games is at the least false advertising and at worst outright fraud. It needs to STOP.
No offense, but you're just being silly. The term MMORPG has meant different things to different people since it was first coined over ten years ago. Hell, most gamers still can't agree with consensus about what even the term RPG means.
No offense taken. And you may be surprised that I agree with your above statement 100%.
Which is why I suggested later in my post that it is long past due that set of "defined" standards be imposed upon this industry by an independent and impartial body.(as much as I find that suggestion abhorrent to my idealology)
I have read enough of your posts to know,that despite your subtle sarcasm and occasional use of carefully worded contempt,that you are a smart,knowlegable and experienced man. I personally appreciate your confrontational style. With that said....
I can't imagine that you would disagree with my assessment that this industry has long since passed it's "wild west/snake oil salesman days". This is a worldwide,multi-billion dollar business now....not a bunch of GenX'ers(like us) just tossing out games into a dark,untested market trying to get a bite. The industry has matured and IMO is in dire need of policing...IF of course the industry cannot or will not police themselves.
I am the owner and operator of a multi-generational,food production and service corporation.
Do you want the standards of me or my competitors to determine the quality of the food produced and served to the public by myself and my competitors? I doubt you would.
Are you going to trust me..or the FDA? My bet is the FDA,and this is fair and reasonable.
Do you have any idea,by what percentage I or my competitors could improve our profit margins if the FDA did not exist and our "definitions" would become the standard of quality. $$CHA-CHING$$
I know that an MMO game will not give you salmonella or trichonosis but certain principles are simply absolute.
By the way...I am never silly about my time or money. Had to get a jab in there somewhere.
The FDA is the most corrupt organization on the planet. If you disagree than tell me how they are not when they allow food to be sold that is grown using deadly salmonella. Also consider then the deadly additives namely high fructose corn syrup that are subsidized by the government. High fructose corn syrup, if you did not know causes ADHD. FDA should be protecting us, the point is they are not, instead the drug and food companies use their huge profits to put there own ceo's in high ranking positions in the FDA so that they can do what ever the hell they want, kinda like the the federal reserve handing out 7 billion to companies who have put their former employees on the board of directors of the federal reserve. All done with out the consent of the now powerless congress.
It is just funny that you picked the worst example to use as a trustworthy organization.
@ Jackarro The FDA is the most corrupt organization on the planet. If you disagree than tell me how they are not when they allow food to be sold that is grown using deadly salmonella. Also consider then the deadly additives namely high fructose corn syrup that are subsidized by the government. High fructose corn syrup, if you did not know causes ADHD. FDA should be protecting us, the point is they are not, instead the drug and food companies use their huge profits to put there own ceo's in high ranking positions in the FDA so that they can do what ever the hell they want, kinda like the the federal reserve handing out 7 billion to companies who have put their former employees on the board of directors of the federal reserve. All done with out the consent of the now powerless congress.
It is just funny that you picked the worst example to use as a trustworthy organization.
I never have or ever will claim that the FDA is without fault,trustworthy. Many of their rulings both past and present I find to be dubious at best and downright unconscienable at worst.
However....
If I am to do business(and stay in business) I must pay them fealty. What do I mean by stay in business? Without FDA regulations and enforcement I would have to either abandon my personal business standards and ethics(not to mention my morals and conscience) in order to not be run out of business by a less scrupulous competitor.
Doesn't this seem to be where the MMO industry is today? Do you actually believe that developers really want to develop and be forced to be deceptive about the low quality products that they make? These people are smart and in tune....but for the sake of their jobs they are gagged by the moneymen.
If I defy the FDA they can shut me down and fine me into the poor house(not to mention it would cost 274 other people their jobs,and I would rather not have that on my conscience). Either way you have to play ball. In a "perfect" world the industry would regulate itself and nobody would ever get sick or die from tainted food products...this perfect world is simply not reality.
It is however the reality for the MMO industry because....they have no oversight and regulation. Of course illness and possible death are not consequences the consumer will suffer for the industry's fraudelent marketing and a non-existant system of oversight...irregardless..ethical business practices are ethical business practices and they are IMO absolute. I draw no distinction,and the paying public deserves complete and correct knowledge of the goods and services that they buy....voluntarily would be preferable or forced if necessary.
Trust me friend when I say,the overwhelming majority of regulations enforced by the FDA are very essential,sensible and time tested.And these regulations do protect the public. Is the system perfect?, by no means,but to dismiss it entirely,is not sensible or responsible. I shudder to imagine what the market would be like without the FDA,salmonella and ADHD would be the least of your concerns...try some mad cow or botchulism(Mmm! yummy)
For example...I am NOT forced by the FDA to use MSG or Aspartame in my products even though they are legal food additives. I simply refuse to market to the public what I consider to be poison. This business decision amounts to a considerable loss of revinue....but my grateful customer base appreciates my efforts and my sales volume more than makeup for any loss. The FDA was and is dead wrong in their rulings on these products.
I am NOT forced to post warning labels on any of my products that may contain peanuts. I do however,for good reason..because for a small segment of the population peanuts can be a lethal allergen.
What is your position on this? Do you believe mandatory enforcement of warning labels by the FDA would be adequate? Or..Do you believe that the FDA is being negligent in not banning peanuts entirely from the food supply? To do nothing would is unconscienable,doing to much would be brutally unfair at best.IMO the FDA should enforce labeling.
Life is not as black and white as we would like it to be. The human race is and always has been in pursuit of truth and transparency,pass or fail we should never give up the quest.
The MMO industry needs to become part of that quest.(kicking and screaming is fine with me) That is my story and I'm sticking to it.
Originally posted by Jackarro It is also equally unfair and inappropriate(and IMO illegal or it should be) for the publishers and developers of online games to market EVERY game released,under the umbrella term MMORPG. I am not an attorney or market analyst,it is just the humble opinion and unshakeable belief of this layman that this "umbrella" practice of marketing online games is at the least false advertising and at worst outright fraud. It needs to STOP.
No offense, but you're just being silly. The term MMORPG has meant different things to different people since it was first coined over ten years ago. Hell, most gamers still can't agree with consensus about what even the term RPG means.
No offense taken. And you may be surprised that I agree with your above statement 100%.
Which is why I suggested later in my post that it is long past due that set of "defined" standards be imposed upon this industry by an independent and impartial body.(as much as I find that suggestion abhorrent to my idealology)
I have read enough of your posts to know,that despite your subtle sarcasm and occasional use of carefully worded contempt,that you are a smart,knowlegable and experienced man. I personally appreciate your confrontational style. With that said....
I can't imagine that you would disagree with my assessment that this industry has long since passed it's "wild west/snake oil salesman days". This is a worldwide,multi-billion dollar business now....not a bunch of GenX'ers(like us) just tossing out games into a dark,untested market trying to get a bite. The industry has matured and IMO is in dire need of policing...IF of course the industry cannot or will not police themselves.
I am the owner and operator of a multi-generational,food production and service corporation.
Do you want the standards of me or my competitors to determine the quality of the food produced and served to the public by myself and my competitors? I doubt you would.
Are you going to trust me..or the FDA? My bet is the FDA,and this is fair and reasonable.
Do you have any idea,by what percentage I or my competitors could improve our profit margins if the FDA did not exist and our "definitions" would become the standard of quality. $$CHA-CHING$$
I know that an MMO game will not give you salmonella or trichonosis but certain principles are simply absolute.
By the way...I am never silly about my time or money. Had to get a jab in there somewhere.
Yes, it's an industry, but it's also art (and yes, sometimes "bad" art). I just don't believe it's always that simple to shoehorn into specific, rigidly defined categories or definitions. It's incredibly subjective, especially when you get into the realm of the fusion of different mediums/genres and innovation.
Believe you me, I wish it was as clear-cut as the food industry (as relatively clear-cut as that is), but it isn't. I also wish it wasn't so heavily influenced by marketing and smarmy PR stooges. For better or worse, as consumers we have to rely on reviews, word of mouth, and websites such as this. That said, one thing I would like to see more of are demos and free trials.
Yes, it's an industry, but it's also art (and yes, sometimes "bad" art). I just don't believe it's always that simple to shoehorn into specific, rigidly defined categories or definitions. It's incredibly subjective, especially when you get into the realm of the fusion of different mediums/genres and innovation. Believe you me, I wish it was as clear-cut as the food industry (as relatively clear-cut as that is), but it isn't. I also wish it wasn't so heavily influenced by marketing and smarmy PR stooges. For better or worse, as consumers we have to rely on reviews, word of mouth, and websites such as this. That said, one thing I would like to see more of are demos and free trials. BTW, thanks for the compliments!
Comments
Why are you so hostile towards crafters?
How did we ruin the SWG experience for you?
Will someone in this forum community please explain to me why there is so much subtle(and not so subtle) hostility towards crafting and crafters? (in general,irregardless of a particular game)
I really am at a loss?
Because the economy, the accumulation of wealth, and the inevitable necessity of replacing your kit was the centerpiece of the game, rather than, you know... Star Wars.
What became the "centerpiece" of the game was not designed by the crafting community.
Crafters simply opted to make the most of the game design that was presented to them.<-----This was our crime? Pfft!
Your explanation does not justify the hostility that was and is leveled at the crafting community of SWG.
Why are you so hostile towards crafters?
How did we ruin the SWG experience for you?
Will someone in this forum community please explain to me why there is so much subtle(and not so subtle) hostility towards crafting and crafters? (in general,irregardless of a particular game)
I really am at a loss?
Because the economy, the accumulation of wealth, and the inevitable necessity of replacing your kit was the centerpiece of the game, rather than, you know... Star Wars.
What became the "centerpiece" of the game was not designed by the crafting community.
Crafters simply opted to make the most of the game design that was presented to them.<-----This was our crime? Pfft!
Your explanation does not justify the hostility that was and is leveled at the crafting community of SWG.
It wasn't my fault they left the bank vault open, I simply made the most of the opportunity presented to me.
And seriously, can we stop equating "crafters" with merchants?
The horrible expansions killed any hope for this game.
I could not agree more. I can only hope that Bioware can bring the Star Wars community back together, or at least bring back the epic struggle of Light vs. Dark. I dont mind the crafters, though. I played a lot late at night and most of the time the server was a bit empty. Of course that became much more noticeable as they changed the game to make it more like WOW. If we had wanted to play WOW we would have bought and subscribed to WOW. But as I would play alone sometimes it was nice to have harvestor to check on and resources to craft new weapons and/or armor to pass the time. It was nice being able to PVP if you wanted and craft when you didnt have people online to PVP with. Nevertheless it is really a mute point now. SWG is dead for intense purposes. Our sad devotion to this ancient games hasnt help us convince the Devlopers to change the game to how we want it. There unwavering belief that they have always improved the game has been our demise. We are all thats left of this dying culture. And it is time to move on. I am glad LA (Lucas Arts) went to bioware. I hope that can give us a game to bring the Star Wars fans back together in a world filled with turmoil and new challenges. Give us a game that will have us playing till the server resets!!! Thats what we all want.!!!
SWG RIP 4/26/05
so let me guess you like to play that WoW piece of crap of a game. Yes i still play SWG or NGE or SWGNGE or what ever the hell you want to call it, i do it becuase its my money and i do whatever the hell i want to. And those are your opinions and you do what ever you want to bottom line. There are people that like the game still and still there are alot that hate the game.
I think it is unfair to equate the idea of a more action-oriented game with WOW. I don't understand why people always seem to make that jump... if its not super-sandbox like SWG, then its WOW. By this reasoning, there are only two types of game. This is a flawed argument and it is not at all what I think most of us non-crafters want.
Just because many of us don't want a game that is as heavily craft-oriented as SWG doesn't mean we want the game to be like WOW! I personally am hoping for something very far from WOW (even though I played it for a very long time). For me, the idea of a highly story-driven MMORPG in the Bioware tradition sounds great! WOW is not at all the same type of game. What Bioware is talking about has really never been done before. A game that is always different depending on the personal choices of your character... A game where the quests are not always EXACTLY the same and your actions can actually have a lasting effect on the world. I can't tell you how appealing that is to me.
Some of you might argue that SWG had this lasting effect element I am talking about, but I disagree... The only thing that actually really changed on the planets were the houses and the player-vendors. It never had anything to do with the story or the conflict. In fact, that whole element of the game was stagnant and unchanging from day one. Before SWG came out, I wondered how they were going to make an interesting game set in a time-period that can't move or change at all due to the movie-based storyline. As it turned out, they failed to do that. Thats probably why I never felt immersed... That and the fact that I don't like to make or sell digital goods.
I agree,it is unfair and innappropriate to divide every game developed into either one of two camps.
It is also equally unfair and inappropriate(and IMO illegal or it should be) for the publishers and developers of online games to market EVERY game released,under the umbrella term MMORPG. I am not an attorney or market analyst,it is just the humble opinion and unshakeable belief of this layman that this "umbrella" practice of marketing online games is at the least false advertising and at worst outright fraud. It needs to STOP.
For the record,I don't want Bioware to develop SWG 2. I have absolutely no beef with Bioware's vision and development of SW:TOR. I simply want truth and transparency to become the SOP of game designers and publishers.
Is a "mission statement" or basic template of game design revealed to the public far in advance of launch to much to ask for from the developers? No vital facts or anything that would jeopardize the propriety of the product, just the basics.(of game type)
I and am positve 10's of thousands like me(at least) are fed up with the vague,misleading and overly hyped dev blogs and the constant obfuscation of what these products really are.
I could really careless if another online game is ever developed that appeals to my playstyle,let the market and the majority opinion of the playerbase rule....BUT..... stop redefining and using the term MMORPG as an umbrella term to market games that fall so far outside the original definition of the term at the time it was coined and as it pertained to the products of the day that defined it. This is IMO grossly inappropiate at best.
I am the last person to call for any restrictions or regulation of the free market and I find myself quite surprised to be making this suggestion, but perhaps it is time for an independent body using a standardized rating system (not unlike the movie rating system) to be forcefully implemented on the developer/publisher before the marketing of these games can commence.
When a developer(Bioware) makes a blanket statement regarding their current project SW:TOR to the affect of "The game will have something for everybody old and new alike"(sorry I know this is not verbatim) whether you are a fan or foe of the game can you honestly defend this statement as being "responsible or ethical"? It is akin IMO to marketing a unicycle as having "something for everyone",it is absurd.
The playerbase/public/consumer has been abused and buffaloed long enough. Time for a change.
Did you play SWG? Look, post this question in the SWG section where it belongs. This game isnt SWG its SWTOR so stop falling into your memories because when you all find out this game isnt anything like SWG you'll remember how many people u agrivated talking about it. Anyways heres a section of an msn convo I had with a mate of mine whos a PreCU PreNGE SWG player:
"""
Zeiyan - Oh theres a forum thread on jedi not being a starting class, when it obviously will be.
Dark - thats good that means u will have 2 earn it. it was main screw up of nge was making jedi a playerble class
Zeiyan - yeah a big part of this game "TOR" is about being a jedi, doing the training in an academy living like a jedi embracing the game like that, and dark this is TOR not SWG, its bioware not soe. I know swg is your heart an soul but u gotta come around that an see TOR for what it is, its starwars but its a different game
Dark - i know but making jedi a beginner class would mess it up straight away
Zeiyan - No, no it wouldnt. it wont so trust bioware
Dark - yea it would if u want a entire server full of jedi lol
Zeiyan - they know their shit and lucas arts watched swg crumble, they know what to do an when to do it, Dark trust them.
"""
SWG players, EX- SWG players give it a rest. This is SW yes but its a different game. Dont compare the two games please. Bioware aren't making this game because people miss SWG an want a new one, they made it to carry the story of KOTOR on a bigger scale. TOR wont be a refuge for SWG or Ex- SWG players will it? No. Because its a DIFFERENT GAME. Sooo get over it. xD Thanks for reading my rant.
Zeiyan xD
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
No offense, but you're just being silly. The term MMORPG has meant different things to different people since it was first coined over ten years ago. Hell, most gamers still can't agree with consensus about what even the term RPG means.
No offense, but you're just being silly. The term MMORPG has meant different things to different people since it was first coined over ten years ago. Hell, most gamers still can't agree with consensus about what even the term RPG means.
No offense taken.
And you may be surprised that I agree with your above statement 100%.
Which is why I suggested later in my post that it is long past due that set of "defined" standards be imposed upon this industry by an independent and impartial body.(as much as I find that suggestion abhorrent to my idealology)
I have read enough of your posts to know,that despite your subtle sarcasm and occasional use of carefully worded contempt,that you are a smart,knowlegable and experienced man. I personally appreciate your confrontational style. With that said....
I can't imagine that you would disagree with my assessment that this industry has long since passed it's "wild west/snake oil salesman days". This is a worldwide,multi-billion dollar business now....not a bunch of GenX'ers(like us) just tossing out games into a dark,untested market trying to get a bite. The industry has matured and IMO is in dire need of policing...IF of course the industry cannot or will not police themselves.
I am the owner and operator of a multi-generational,food production and service corporation.
Do you want the standards of me or my competitors to determine the quality of the food produced and served to the public by myself and my competitors? I doubt you would.
Are you going to trust me..or the FDA? My bet is the FDA,and this is fair and reasonable.
Do you have any idea,by what percentage I or my competitors could improve our profit margins if the FDA did not exist and our "definitions" would become the standard of quality. $$CHA-CHING$$
I know that an MMO game will not give you salmonella or trichonosis but certain principles are simply absolute.
By the way...I am never silly about my time or money.
Had to get a jab in there somewhere.
sandbox + skill tree system = love
Retired From: L2, SWG, RFO, WoW, War, Aion
Waiting For: Tera, Blade & Soul, Huxley, SWTOR,
@ Jackarro
The FDA is the most corrupt organization on the planet. If you disagree than tell me how they are not when they allow food to be sold that is grown using deadly salmonella. Also consider then the deadly additives namely high fructose corn syrup that are subsidized by the government. High fructose corn syrup, if you did not know causes ADHD. FDA should be protecting us, the point is they are not, instead the drug and food companies use their huge profits to put there own ceo's in high ranking positions in the FDA so that they can do what ever the hell they want, kinda like the the federal reserve handing out 7 billion to companies who have put their former employees on the board of directors of the federal reserve. All done with out the consent of the now powerless congress.
It is just funny that you picked the worst example to use as a trustworthy organization.
I never have or ever will claim that the FDA is without fault,trustworthy. Many of their rulings both past and present I find to be dubious at best and downright unconscienable at worst.
However....
If I am to do business(and stay in business) I must pay them fealty. What do I mean by stay in business? Without FDA regulations and enforcement I would have to either abandon my personal business standards and ethics(not to mention my morals and conscience) in order to not be run out of business by a less scrupulous competitor.
Doesn't this seem to be where the MMO industry is today? Do you actually believe that developers really want to develop and be forced to be deceptive about the low quality products that they make? These people are smart and in tune....but for the sake of their jobs they are gagged by the moneymen.
If I defy the FDA they can shut me down and fine me into the poor house(not to mention it would cost 274 other people their jobs,and I would rather not have that on my conscience). Either way you have to play ball. In a "perfect" world the industry would regulate itself and nobody would ever get sick or die from tainted food products...this perfect world is simply not reality.
It is however the reality for the MMO industry because....they have no oversight and regulation. Of course illness and possible death are not consequences the consumer will suffer for the industry's fraudelent marketing and a non-existant system of oversight...irregardless..ethical business practices are ethical business practices and they are IMO absolute. I draw no distinction,and the paying public deserves complete and correct knowledge of the goods and services that they buy....voluntarily would be preferable or forced if necessary.
Trust me friend when I say,the overwhelming majority of regulations enforced by the FDA are very essential,sensible and time tested.And these regulations do protect the public. Is the system perfect?, by no means,but to dismiss it entirely,is not sensible or responsible. I shudder to imagine what the market would be like without the FDA,salmonella and ADHD would be the least of your concerns...try some mad cow or botchulism(Mmm! yummy)
For example...I am NOT forced by the FDA to use MSG or Aspartame in my products even though they are legal food additives. I simply refuse to market to the public what I consider to be poison. This business decision amounts to a considerable loss of revinue....but my grateful customer base appreciates my efforts and my sales volume more than makeup for any loss. The FDA was and is dead wrong in their rulings on these products.
I am NOT forced to post warning labels on any of my products that may contain peanuts. I do however,for good reason..because for a small segment of the population peanuts can be a lethal allergen.
What is your position on this? Do you believe mandatory enforcement of warning labels by the FDA would be adequate? Or..Do you believe that the FDA is being negligent in not banning peanuts entirely from the food supply? To do nothing would is unconscienable,doing to much would be brutally unfair at best.IMO the FDA should enforce labeling.
Life is not as black and white as we would like it to be. The human race is and always has been in pursuit of truth and transparency,pass or fail we should never give up the quest.
The MMO industry needs to become part of that quest.(kicking and screaming is fine with me) That is my story and I'm sticking to it.
SWG the Best Game about Star Wars, a never see Game Best's SWG on Star Wars
and i think SWG Very Original
and Kotor make some enother real of SW, not on books....
No offense, but you're just being silly. The term MMORPG has meant different things to different people since it was first coined over ten years ago. Hell, most gamers still can't agree with consensus about what even the term RPG means.
No offense taken.
And you may be surprised that I agree with your above statement 100%.
Which is why I suggested later in my post that it is long past due that set of "defined" standards be imposed upon this industry by an independent and impartial body.(as much as I find that suggestion abhorrent to my idealology)
I have read enough of your posts to know,that despite your subtle sarcasm and occasional use of carefully worded contempt,that you are a smart,knowlegable and experienced man. I personally appreciate your confrontational style. With that said....
I can't imagine that you would disagree with my assessment that this industry has long since passed it's "wild west/snake oil salesman days". This is a worldwide,multi-billion dollar business now....not a bunch of GenX'ers(like us) just tossing out games into a dark,untested market trying to get a bite. The industry has matured and IMO is in dire need of policing...IF of course the industry cannot or will not police themselves.
I am the owner and operator of a multi-generational,food production and service corporation.
Do you want the standards of me or my competitors to determine the quality of the food produced and served to the public by myself and my competitors? I doubt you would.
Are you going to trust me..or the FDA? My bet is the FDA,and this is fair and reasonable.
Do you have any idea,by what percentage I or my competitors could improve our profit margins if the FDA did not exist and our "definitions" would become the standard of quality. $$CHA-CHING$$
I know that an MMO game will not give you salmonella or trichonosis but certain principles are simply absolute.
By the way...I am never silly about my time or money.
Had to get a jab in there somewhere.
Yes, it's an industry, but it's also art (and yes, sometimes "bad" art). I just don't believe it's always that simple to shoehorn into specific, rigidly defined categories or definitions. It's incredibly subjective, especially when you get into the realm of the fusion of different mediums/genres and innovation.
Believe you me, I wish it was as clear-cut as the food industry (as relatively clear-cut as that is), but it isn't. I also wish it wasn't so heavily influenced by marketing and smarmy PR stooges. For better or worse, as consumers we have to rely on reviews, word of mouth, and websites such as this. That said, one thing I would like to see more of are demos and free trials.
BTW, thanks for the compliments!
haha good thinks
