I was running SP the other day, cause I logged on and order had almost locked the tier, only needed like 3 VP's for the lock and the fortress raid.
I went in once with a guildie, I was R32, he was R34....and order premades wiped the floor with us.
Instead of jumping right back into that, we got a group of guildies together. You know what our "hardcore" premade was?
Two R40's, an R36, an R35, an R34 and an R32.
We ran against full premades of R40 order, and some pugs, depending on the scenario, and we ran something like a 10-1 record.
If you run a scenario at R30 solo, guess what, you're gonna get rolled. If you run a scenario solo at R40...you'll live a bit longer, but you'll still get rolled by premades.
So...you don't need to be all 40's...you just need to have a group rather than random people, and a little organization.
I even do well in RvR. Sure, I get killed, but I kill R40's also. Just use your head a bit, and try not to roll pugs where no one is watching your back.
Keeps do need some work. Not because they don't function..but because they get repetetive pretty fast, and the RvR lakes are too small to promote the meta games of small group warfare that DAOC had.
There is much room for improvement, but it's not nearly as dismal as the OP makes it out to be.
I am a level 40.. But my renown is only 34. I have no plans on grinding renown it would bore the crap out of me. But I do agree renown needs to be looked at better. I think I speak for quiet a few of us that think that it would have been nice just to have hit 40 and just RvR with our main, and not to worry about renown.
I saw were they are shortening the amount of time it takes to level, maybe they will look at renown time next.
..is simple. The disparity between lame lvl40's - who can't kill people in ORvR, come into Scenarios where low level 30's are trying to progress - is just too great. I'm on my 3rd alt now in T4 - because end game on my main is so boring - and being killed in a second is no fun for obvious reasons. T4 takes a decent while to get through, and consequently people will just 'ragequit' because it is futile to try and complete with a series of level 40's who can kill very easily. Because end game is so lame, Scenarios are where high end guilds get their kicks. Guilds such as Nagarythe Corps and Boss - who fancy themselves as 'leet' - gather on TS and massage their epeens to beat the lowbies. The truth is, you guys suck balls. Don't you want a challenge? Mythic, why are these losers even allowed in T4 Scenarios? Have you played a lvl30 versus a RR50+ lately? Absolutely clueless you are when it comes to a reasonably level playing field. I've played this game since the start, and all I see now, is lose on all fronts. Games are supposed to be fun, this set up is not. The answer seems quite logical to me. 1. Scenarios should be 28-33 and 34-39. There should be separate Scenarios for level 40's who still want to play them outside of zone locking. 2. Re-design how low level stats are revised to enable them to compete with 40's, if no 1 is too hard for you to manage. At the moment, giving an HP buff equates to trying to sell ice cream in the Arctic.
So, let me understand this post... since you get waxed with your alts at low 30's T4 is a failure? Guess you never went into a scenario around level 3 or 4 with level 11's and people dinging 12 during the scenario? Or ever do anything but go into a scenario until you were at the end of the tier so you could do what you are saying others are doing? With your logic then instead of a 4 tier game you want an 8 tier one, then whats to keep the next... individual... from complaining that he gets killed in no time at level 1 by a level 5?
I am on my second t4 toon and as long as it's not serpent's passage its a toss up as to who will win. If it's SP then pretty much always order seems to win unless we run organized ones but, then again.... why even bother with the scenarios. Open RVR is where its at additionally you don't earn influence for running around in scenarios
Except no-one is complaining about that. In fact people are re-rolling alts to get back to T1-T3 because it was fun and enjoyable. T4 is totally different. People quitting or being disapointed and re-rolling should be enough proof of that.
Pay NO attention to Spaceweed! He's just a hater and a bad player who' whines about Warhammer because his lovely Wow/Darkfall/AoC stinks and is losing subs everyday while WAR is gaining massive subs and he's a kid who lives in his momma's basement and he's got a crappy computer and he's a troll. And his name is stupid too. /in before fanbois.
Yes Server merges = gaining subscriptions lmao. Adding servers, like WoW = losing subscriptions.
Really? Is this all thats left playing WAR is idiots with no common sense? Just incase, the above sentence was sacrcasm. WAR is still losing subscriptions at a high rate.
yeah, T4 is an utter failure. I wish someone would tell that to some of the order on my server so that we could at least have close to equal numbers out there. :cP
There seems to be a consesus with the OP and few opposing viewpoints so far. I'm finally getting into T4, looking forward to it less now
Actually it's more annoying than devastating! Plus some scenarios like Serpent's Passage do play okay for all levels for some reason and you can still get renown. The high lvl players get very little renown for slaughtering low lvl players but the low lvl players get an okay amount when grouping together and taking out a high lvl player.
There seems to be a consesus with the OP and few opposing viewpoints so far. I'm finally getting into T4, looking forward to it less now
Actually it's more annoying than devastating! Plus some scenarios like Serpent's Passage do play okay for all levels for some reason and you can still get renown. The high lvl players get very little renown for slaughtering low lvl players but the low lvl players get an okay amount when grouping together and taking out a high lvl player.
Agreed, at least for me it seems to twitch between being annoying & unplayable, to bizarrely rewarding.
Last night I played 'Celadon Woods' twice in quick succession. The first time I was repeatedly slaughtered within seconds of respawning & earning almost nothing for 10 minutes of pure frustration, but the second time I earned over 6k renown as only a Lvl 30 DoK & hardly died at all.
Unfortunately the former experience is far more common than the latter, but hopefully things will improve as I slowly edge my way up Tier 4.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
I don't really like Warhammer, it has a lot of problems that make it something less than "meh," but I have to say the funnest part of the game I ever experienced was backed up against the ship in Serpent's Passage. I'd save my knockback morale ability for just the right time - I'd wait till someone got lured to the front of the wagon, then I'd move just in front of him/her and knock them into the Champions. Sure, I usually died a few times myself, but there was nothing better than making someone who was being just a little too cocky pay for it.
Plus, if more than one of us was doing it, and the healers had to get close to raise 'em, we'd often get a few more kills and eventually steamroll the entire group. Sometimes we'd even get 80 or 160 capture points before the scenario ended that way.
Seriously - the T4 PvP rocks if you have a group on Vent. The campaign needs tweaking for sure but the PvP you can have after patch 1.1 (did alot to the game) is golden if you do play with a regular group and do not follow the zerg.
Originally posted by Sikhander Seriously - the T4 PvP rocks if you have a group on Vent. The campaign needs tweaking for sure but the PvP you can have after patch 1.1 (did alot to the game) is golden if you do play with a regular group and do not follow the zerg.
Vent probably does make it better, but being able to talk with other people doesn't help your gold bag drop for you with your items. Or it doesn't fix a crash, or a lockout from a fort siege.
Vent is good but unless it comes with it's own debugger, T4 is always gonna remain poorly implemented.
T4 RvR sucks but it has nothing to do with having Vent, l33t buds in your guild, 40s vs. 31s or any of that crap. It sucks for 2 simple reasons:
1. Once everyone has their full bag of tricks it becomes obvious that this game was never playtested in any meaningful way with an eye to T4 balance. Some classes get "I win!" CC skills that make other classes nothing more than free kills that can't fight back. This is tolerable up to T3 (even though Tor Arnorc is just about having great knock-your-ass-into-the-lava skills) because all the uber CC is not yet in play so most classes have a chance to fight back. Class balance totally falls apart at R40.
2. The game gives you all kinds of incentives (RR and inf rewards) to not fight each other and just run around killing PvE mobs in RvR lakes to flip keeps and battlefield objectives so you can get your goodies (gold bag drops and inf rewards) faster. Mythic's obsession with how potentially exploitable gaining renown through player killls could be (through coordination with your other low-life buddy who plays on the other side) dominates their thinking to the point that killing others is a waste of time that people engage in only due to sheer boredom.
Those would be the real reasons.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
T4 RvR sucks but it has nothing to do with having Vent, l33t buds in your guild, 40s vs. 31s or any of that crap. It sucks for 2 simple reasons: 1. Once everyone has their full bag of tricks it becomes obvious that this game was never playtested in any meaningful way with an eye to T4 balance. Some classes get "I win!" CC skills that make other classes nothing more than free kills that can't fight back. This is tolerable up to T3 (even though Tor Arnorc is just about having great knock-your-ass-into-the-lava skills) because all the uber CC is not yet in play so most classes have a chance to fight back. Class balance totally falls apart at R40. 2. The game gives you all kinds of incentives (RR and inf rewards) to not fight each other and just run around killing PvE mobs in RvR lakes to flip keeps and battlefield objectives so you can get your goodies (gold bag drops and inf rewards) faster. Mythic's obsession with how potentially exploitable gaining renown through player killls could be (through coordination with your other low-life buddy who plays on the other side) dominates their thinking to the point that killing others is a waste of time that people engage in only due to sheer boredom. Those would be the real reasons.
While I don't completely agree w/ this, this is probably the first really thought out response I've seen in this thread (there may have been 1 or 2 others).
I mean, seriously, some people are complaining that higher lvls are killing them? that is precisely the line of thinking that leads to imbalances in the first place. Anyhow;
The above is dead on about #1. For a game trying to limit CC, it is extremely out of wack in T4. One side gets a TON of CC (and nasty ones too, disarm / stun/ knockdown), while the other side seems to be more focused on damage skills (but doesn't necessarily do more damage). There are a few exceptions (ie the engineer gets more CC than the magus if specced for it), but this is generally true across the board.
About point #2, I think that comes very close to touching on the 'real' problem w/ WAR as a game.the incentives do need to be looked at. While I know exactly why Mythic doesn't want to raise killing players too highly (that is VERY easily exploitable), the rewards for ORvR vs. Scenarios should be looked at (though it is getting very close to where it needs to be).
A lot of the complaining about how much T4 sucks comes from players though. So many people seem to have bought this game, trying to turn it into something it's not. It has problems, yes, but at a certain point you can't realistically blame the 'game' for you not wanting to kill people because it 'requires too much effort'.
On my server we've had a few smaller guilds step up and actually bother to defend keeps, no matter the odds, and guess what. The rewards are amazing, and the fights are fun, even though we tend to lose due to the overwhelming odds. However, this is what the game is about and we are helping slow down the enemy realm (which helps our own). The rewards you get for killing players by yourself are very, very nice if you look at it. The hard part is getting players alone to accomplish such a feat.
Conclusion:
-1 Rebalance CC, it should be even on BOTH sides (both in amount, and type).
-2 Fix RvR rewards (afaik they are already working on this)
-3 Capital Cities need to be given more importance (and as such more of a reason to defend).
Remember, scenarios are not the most important part of T4. They are required for locking down a zone (pretty important), but that's about it. You can gain more renown (and sometimes even more EXP) from ORvR than scenarios. I hate losing as much as the next guy, but if you aren't prepared to lose, then you aren't prepared to win. Think about it.
T4 RvR sucks but it has nothing to do with having Vent, l33t buds in your guild, 40s vs. 31s or any of that crap. It sucks for 2 simple reasons: 1. Once everyone has their full bag of tricks it becomes obvious that this game was never playtested in any meaningful way with an eye to T4 balance. Some classes get "I win!" CC skills that make other classes nothing more than free kills that can't fight back. This is tolerable up to T3 (even though Tor Arnorc is just about having great knock-your-ass-into-the-lava skills) because all the uber CC is not yet in play so most classes have a chance to fight back. Class balance totally falls apart at R40. 2. The game gives you all kinds of incentives (RR and inf rewards) to not fight each other and just run around killing PvE mobs in RvR lakes to flip keeps and battlefield objectives so you can get your goodies (gold bag drops and inf rewards) faster. Mythic's obsession with how potentially exploitable gaining renown through player killls could be (through coordination with your other low-life buddy who plays on the other side) dominates their thinking to the point that killing others is a waste of time that people engage in only due to sheer boredom. Those would be the real reasons.
As for #1 you are wrong. I was an elder closed beta tester for over a year. The classes all had a lot of input given back on how to balance them, but Mythic strait up IGNORED the changes proposed to them by smart, long time mmo players and instead did their own thing, sometimes, sorry almost ALWAYS making the testers shake their head in disgust they were ignored once again. the game was tested, and tested damn well I wrote up multiple emails, pm's and forum posts about issues with different classes but they only listened to the core testers. The problem is, the core testers (not all, but a lot) weren't into balance they were into making their class uberness. Those that had core testers representing their classes who werent out spoken, the classes tended to fall behind those who had the loudest players (Read BW)
There were multiple weeks where we told them @ ;t4 testing that it was a zerg fest, that it was just warcamp to warcamp camping, and that there were huge problems with class balance. That did not stop them from ignoring us and acting as though they knew what was best.
#2 I totally agree. But I think it was more then that. I think they felt as though if they made the game more pve friendly they would grab a lot more of the eq/wow style players who don't mind about pvp but failed since the pve doesn't deliver.
The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness Bob Marley
T4 RvR sucks but it has nothing to do with having Vent, l33t buds in your guild, 40s vs. 31s or any of that crap. It sucks for 2 simple reasons: 1. Once everyone has their full bag of tricks it becomes obvious that this game was never playtested in any meaningful way with an eye to T4 balance. Some classes get "I win!" CC skills that make other classes nothing more than free kills that can't fight back. This is tolerable up to T3 (even though Tor Arnorc is just about having great knock-your-ass-into-the-lava skills) because all the uber CC is not yet in play so most classes have a chance to fight back. Class balance totally falls apart at R40. 2. The game gives you all kinds of incentives (RR and inf rewards) to not fight each other and just run around killing PvE mobs in RvR lakes to flip keeps and battlefield objectives so you can get your goodies (gold bag drops and inf rewards) faster. Mythic's obsession with how potentially exploitable gaining renown through player killls could be (through coordination with your other low-life buddy who plays on the other side) dominates their thinking to the point that killing others is a waste of time that people engage in only due to sheer boredom. Those would be the real reasons.
As for #1 you are wrong. I was an elder closed beta tester for over a year. The classes all had a lot of input given back on how to balance them, but Mythic strait up IGNORED the changes proposed to them by smart, long time mmo players and instead did their own thing, sometimes, sorry almost ALWAYS making the testers shake their head in disgust they were ignored once again. the game was tested, and tested damn well I wrote up multiple emails, pm's and forum posts about issues with different classes but they only listened to the core testers. The problem is, the core testers (not all, but a lot) weren't into balance they were into making their class uberness. Those that had core testers representing their classes who werent out spoken, the classes tended to fall behind those who had the loudest players (Read BW)
There were multiple weeks where we told them @ ;t4 testing that it was a zerg fest, that it was just warcamp to warcamp camping, and that there were huge problems with class balance. That did not stop them from ignoring us and acting as though they knew what was best.
#2 I totally agree. But I think it was more then that. I think they felt as though if they made the game more pve friendly they would grab a lot more of the eq/wow style players who don't mind about pvp but failed since the pve doesn't deliver.
My bad. I never meant to blame this on the Elder beta testers--I know how hard you guys tried from all the conversations I've had with many of you. Your warnings about T4 problems either were totally ignored or Mythic thought they could deal with it later. January is already too late. Many people are pissed and leaving.
As to me? I'm still giving them a chance mostly due to a desire to play with my friends who are still there. But almost everyone in our guild has their R40 characters parked and we're having T2 and T3 fun with alts. That, obviously, will only keep us amused for a while.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The OP sounds like a whiner. I have a 32 IB that does quite well in scenarios. It does help to have good healers but I have done just fine and stayed alive for most of the time limit in some scenarios. I don't even know how to play my IB all that great either. lol
The OP sounds like a whiner. I have a 32 IB that does quite well in scenarios. It does help to have good healers but I have done just fine and stayed alive for most of the time limit in some scenarios. I don't even know how to play my IB all that great either. lol I will admit that I hate most of the SC maps tho.
I miss Reikland Factory SC. Would love for them to bring that back on a permanent basis.
..is simple. The disparity between lame lvl40's - who can't kill people in ORvR, come into Scenarios where low level 30's are trying to progress - is just too great. I'm on my 3rd alt now in T4 - because end game on my main is so boring - and being killed in a second is no fun for obvious reasons. T4 takes a decent while to get through, and consequently people will just 'ragequit' because it is futile to try and complete with a series of level 40's who can kill very easily. Because end game is so lame, Scenarios are where high end guilds get their kicks. Guilds such as Nagarythe Corps and Boss - who fancy themselves as 'leet' - gather on TS and massage their epeens to beat the lowbies. The truth is, you guys suck balls. Don't you want a challenge? Mythic, why are these losers even allowed in T4 Scenarios? Have you played a lvl30 versus a RR50+ lately? Absolutely clueless you are when it comes to a reasonably level playing field. I've played this game since the start, and all I see now, is lose on all fronts. Games are supposed to be fun, this set up is not. The answer seems quite logical to me. 1. Scenarios should be 28-33 and 34-39. There should be separate Scenarios for level 40's who still want to play them outside of zone locking. 2. Re-design how low level stats are revised to enable them to compete with 40's, if no 1 is too hard for you to manage. At the moment, giving an HP buff equates to trying to sell ice cream in the Arctic.
I gotta agree with the scenario situation. I hate to compare this game to another , but the "other" game had a seperate lvl 60 "scenario" when the instances first came out , did it not?
Yep... often times the ones who pound their chests the loudest and describe themselves as "hardcore" or "real men" because they play a PvP game are the ones you'll find only going after people 20 levels lower than them, and running from anyone even close to their level.
They don't want a challenge.. they want easy, guaranteed kills with no risk of dying themselves.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Sorry to burst the OP bubble, but I am playing a rank 31 shadow warrior and totally enjoying tier 4 scenarios. Why? Well because I am getting massive amounts of renown (around 3k per scenario) , while on the tier 3 where I can be the top dog I would normally get less than 1k . The lower your lvl the more chances you have to be targetted and killed by the lvl 40's ... BUT ... every kill you participate in will give you a massive amount of renown. All in all tier 4 scenarios are great for lvl 30's .
To OP, doesnt happen that way for me... theres nothing better playing SC's where you wipe 40's... the xp/renown is always so much sweeter when they are higher levels ...
The idea of L40 only SC is ok but maybe a mathmatical cap would help to determine the quantity of levels would help? rather than a separate SC. More balance on levels within an SC?
BUT please consider the fact that Lvl 40 does not mean they are any good. Ive played premade SC at lvl 32 with my Guild and wiped anything at any level (except Serpents Passage) that the "bad" guys throw at us (obviously we lose sometimes but you dont get xperience any other way).... if your a suicide lemming player or click click kill kill player or dont read the map and objectives to the SC player or doesnt team play player (main assist anyone??) then ANY side which plays together will beat you. Fight together or Die alone and even if you dont win then youve just been bested by the other side... thats PvP just stack up the Q's again and kick there ass!
I started SC'in at lvl 3 on my 3 toons and never stopped.... the only thing I will say is that people dont play there classes for what their purpose is AND expect everyone to know what they are doing eg. when people start shouting healer XXXX is crap, yet when the SC is over the healer has the highest heal score as they are saving everyone doesnt mean the Healer XXXX is crap it means the player whining is crap as they got monstered and cannot wait for the healer who is saving someone else being productive (i mean that in the nicest way as you save a healer time and time again and youve made a friend ingame). All I would say to people is think. The game is PVP which is fluid and you need to pay attention otherwise you will get monstered.
There ARE faults in the game which will be tweaked like any other mmorpg game there is out there.... im sure we have all played them and know what true faults are, I personally have. Unfinished? no.... New mmorpg ... yes... if its an issue with game mechanics then report it in game... if everyone did it they will respond. Not from a 3rd party website?
My Favourite Quotes of WAR seen in an Scenario to date:-
"More pew pew less QQ" and "STOP HITTING THE FREAKIN TANK GETTING HEALED BY THE UNDEFENDED HEALERS YOU RETARDS"
"Obi-Wan Kenobi: We were decieved by a lie; we all were. It appears that SOE is behind everything, including the NGE! After the death of CU, the NGE became their new apprentice."
Comments
I actually disagree with the OP.
I was running SP the other day, cause I logged on and order had almost locked the tier, only needed like 3 VP's for the lock and the fortress raid.
I went in once with a guildie, I was R32, he was R34....and order premades wiped the floor with us.
Instead of jumping right back into that, we got a group of guildies together. You know what our "hardcore" premade was?
Two R40's, an R36, an R35, an R34 and an R32.
We ran against full premades of R40 order, and some pugs, depending on the scenario, and we ran something like a 10-1 record.
If you run a scenario at R30 solo, guess what, you're gonna get rolled. If you run a scenario solo at R40...you'll live a bit longer, but you'll still get rolled by premades.
So...you don't need to be all 40's...you just need to have a group rather than random people, and a little organization.
I even do well in RvR. Sure, I get killed, but I kill R40's also. Just use your head a bit, and try not to roll pugs where no one is watching your back.
Keeps do need some work. Not because they don't function..but because they get repetetive pretty fast, and the RvR lakes are too small to promote the meta games of small group warfare that DAOC had.
There is much room for improvement, but it's not nearly as dismal as the OP makes it out to be.
I am a level 40.. But my renown is only 34. I have no plans on grinding renown it would bore the crap out of me. But I do agree renown needs to be looked at better. I think I speak for quiet a few of us that think that it would have been nice just to have hit 40 and just RvR with our main, and not to worry about renown.
I saw were they are shortening the amount of time it takes to level, maybe they will look at renown time next.
So, let me understand this post... since you get waxed with your alts at low 30's T4 is a failure? Guess you never went into a scenario around level 3 or 4 with level 11's and people dinging 12 during the scenario? Or ever do anything but go into a scenario until you were at the end of the tier so you could do what you are saying others are doing? With your logic then instead of a 4 tier game you want an 8 tier one, then whats to keep the next... individual... from complaining that he gets killed in no time at level 1 by a level 5?
I am on my second t4 toon and as long as it's not serpent's passage its a toss up as to who will win. If it's SP then pretty much always order seems to win unless we run organized ones but, then again.... why even bother with the scenarios. Open RVR is where its at additionally you don't earn influence for running around in scenarios
Except no-one is complaining about that. In fact people are re-rolling alts to get back to T1-T3 because it was fun and enjoyable. T4 is totally different. People quitting or being disapointed and re-rolling should be enough proof of that.
Yes Server merges = gaining subscriptions lmao. Adding servers, like WoW = losing subscriptions.
Really? Is this all thats left playing WAR is idiots with no common sense? Just incase, the above sentence was sacrcasm. WAR is still losing subscriptions at a high rate.
yeah, T4 is an utter failure. I wish someone would tell that to some of the order on my server so that we could at least have close to equal numbers out there. :cP
Actually it's more annoying than devastating! Plus some scenarios like Serpent's Passage do play okay for all levels for some reason and you can still get renown. The high lvl players get very little renown for slaughtering low lvl players but the low lvl players get an okay amount when grouping together and taking out a high lvl player.
Actually it's more annoying than devastating! Plus some scenarios like Serpent's Passage do play okay for all levels for some reason and you can still get renown. The high lvl players get very little renown for slaughtering low lvl players but the low lvl players get an okay amount when grouping together and taking out a high lvl player.
Agreed, at least for me it seems to twitch between being annoying & unplayable, to bizarrely rewarding.
Last night I played 'Celadon Woods' twice in quick succession. The first time I was repeatedly slaughtered within seconds of respawning & earning almost nothing for 10 minutes of pure frustration, but the second time I earned over 6k renown as only a Lvl 30 DoK & hardly died at all.
Unfortunately the former experience is far more common than the latter, but hopefully things will improve as I slowly edge my way up Tier 4.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Take the Hecatomb? TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
I don't really like Warhammer, it has a lot of problems that make it something less than "meh," but I have to say the funnest part of the game I ever experienced was backed up against the ship in Serpent's Passage. I'd save my knockback morale ability for just the right time - I'd wait till someone got lured to the front of the wagon, then I'd move just in front of him/her and knock them into the Champions. Sure, I usually died a few times myself, but there was nothing better than making someone who was being just a little too cocky pay for it.
Plus, if more than one of us was doing it, and the healers had to get close to raise 'em, we'd often get a few more kills and eventually steamroll the entire group. Sometimes we'd even get 80 or 160 capture points before the scenario ended that way.
Seriously - the T4 PvP rocks if you have a group on Vent. The campaign needs tweaking for sure but the PvP you can have after patch 1.1 (did alot to the game) is golden if you do play with a regular group and do not follow the zerg.
Vent probably does make it better, but being able to talk with other people doesn't help your gold bag drop for you with your items. Or it doesn't fix a crash, or a lockout from a fort siege.
Vent is good but unless it comes with it's own debugger, T4 is always gonna remain poorly implemented.
"TO MICHAEL!"
T4 RvR sucks but it has nothing to do with having Vent, l33t buds in your guild, 40s vs. 31s or any of that crap. It sucks for 2 simple reasons:
1. Once everyone has their full bag of tricks it becomes obvious that this game was never playtested in any meaningful way with an eye to T4 balance. Some classes get "I win!" CC skills that make other classes nothing more than free kills that can't fight back. This is tolerable up to T3 (even though Tor Arnorc is just about having great knock-your-ass-into-the-lava skills) because all the uber CC is not yet in play so most classes have a chance to fight back. Class balance totally falls apart at R40.
2. The game gives you all kinds of incentives (RR and inf rewards) to not fight each other and just run around killing PvE mobs in RvR lakes to flip keeps and battlefield objectives so you can get your goodies (gold bag drops and inf rewards) faster. Mythic's obsession with how potentially exploitable gaining renown through player killls could be (through coordination with your other low-life buddy who plays on the other side) dominates their thinking to the point that killing others is a waste of time that people engage in only due to sheer boredom.
Those would be the real reasons.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
While I don't completely agree w/ this, this is probably the first really thought out response I've seen in this thread (there may have been 1 or 2 others).
I mean, seriously, some people are complaining that higher lvls are killing them? that is precisely the line of thinking that leads to imbalances in the first place. Anyhow;
The above is dead on about #1. For a game trying to limit CC, it is extremely out of wack in T4. One side gets a TON of CC (and nasty ones too, disarm / stun/ knockdown), while the other side seems to be more focused on damage skills (but doesn't necessarily do more damage). There are a few exceptions (ie the engineer gets more CC than the magus if specced for it), but this is generally true across the board.
About point #2, I think that comes very close to touching on the 'real' problem w/ WAR as a game.the incentives do need to be looked at. While I know exactly why Mythic doesn't want to raise killing players too highly (that is VERY easily exploitable), the rewards for ORvR vs. Scenarios should be looked at (though it is getting very close to where it needs to be).
A lot of the complaining about how much T4 sucks comes from players though. So many people seem to have bought this game, trying to turn it into something it's not. It has problems, yes, but at a certain point you can't realistically blame the 'game' for you not wanting to kill people because it 'requires too much effort'.
On my server we've had a few smaller guilds step up and actually bother to defend keeps, no matter the odds, and guess what. The rewards are amazing, and the fights are fun, even though we tend to lose due to the overwhelming odds. However, this is what the game is about and we are helping slow down the enemy realm (which helps our own). The rewards you get for killing players by yourself are very, very nice if you look at it. The hard part is getting players alone to accomplish such a feat.
Conclusion:
-1 Rebalance CC, it should be even on BOTH sides (both in amount, and type).
-2 Fix RvR rewards (afaik they are already working on this)
-3 Capital Cities need to be given more importance (and as such more of a reason to defend).
Remember, scenarios are not the most important part of T4. They are required for locking down a zone (pretty important), but that's about it. You can gain more renown (and sometimes even more EXP) from ORvR than scenarios. I hate losing as much as the next guy, but if you aren't prepared to lose, then you aren't prepared to win. Think about it.
As for #1 you are wrong. I was an elder closed beta tester for over a year. The classes all had a lot of input given back on how to balance them, but Mythic strait up IGNORED the changes proposed to them by smart, long time mmo players and instead did their own thing, sometimes, sorry almost ALWAYS making the testers shake their head in disgust they were ignored once again. the game was tested, and tested damn well I wrote up multiple emails, pm's and forum posts about issues with different classes but they only listened to the core testers. The problem is, the core testers (not all, but a lot) weren't into balance they were into making their class uberness. Those that had core testers representing their classes who werent out spoken, the classes tended to fall behind those who had the loudest players (Read BW)
There were multiple weeks where we told them @ ;t4 testing that it was a zerg fest, that it was just warcamp to warcamp camping, and that there were huge problems with class balance. That did not stop them from ignoring us and acting as though they knew what was best.
#2 I totally agree. But I think it was more then that. I think they felt as though if they made the game more pve friendly they would grab a lot more of the eq/wow style players who don't mind about pvp but failed since the pve doesn't deliver.
The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness Bob Marley
As for #1 you are wrong. I was an elder closed beta tester for over a year. The classes all had a lot of input given back on how to balance them, but Mythic strait up IGNORED the changes proposed to them by smart, long time mmo players and instead did their own thing, sometimes, sorry almost ALWAYS making the testers shake their head in disgust they were ignored once again. the game was tested, and tested damn well I wrote up multiple emails, pm's and forum posts about issues with different classes but they only listened to the core testers. The problem is, the core testers (not all, but a lot) weren't into balance they were into making their class uberness. Those that had core testers representing their classes who werent out spoken, the classes tended to fall behind those who had the loudest players (Read BW)
There were multiple weeks where we told them @ ;t4 testing that it was a zerg fest, that it was just warcamp to warcamp camping, and that there were huge problems with class balance. That did not stop them from ignoring us and acting as though they knew what was best.
#2 I totally agree. But I think it was more then that. I think they felt as though if they made the game more pve friendly they would grab a lot more of the eq/wow style players who don't mind about pvp but failed since the pve doesn't deliver.
My bad. I never meant to blame this on the Elder beta testers--I know how hard you guys tried from all the conversations I've had with many of you. Your warnings about T4 problems either were totally ignored or Mythic thought they could deal with it later. January is already too late. Many people are pissed and leaving.
As to me? I'm still giving them a chance mostly due to a desire to play with my friends who are still there. But almost everyone in our guild has their R40 characters parked and we're having T2 and T3 fun with alts. That, obviously, will only keep us amused for a while.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The OP sounds like a whiner. I have a 32 IB that does quite well in scenarios. It does help to have good healers but I have done just fine and stayed alive for most of the time limit in some scenarios. I don't even know how to play my IB all that great either. lol
I will admit that I hate most of the SC maps tho.
Okey doke.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I miss Reikland Factory SC. Would love for them to bring that back on a permanent basis.
I gotta agree with the scenario situation. I hate to compare this game to another , but the "other" game had a seperate lvl 60 "scenario" when the instances first came out , did it not?
Yep... often times the ones who pound their chests the loudest and describe themselves as "hardcore" or "real men" because they play a PvP game are the ones you'll find only going after people 20 levels lower than them, and running from anyone even close to their level.
They don't want a challenge.. they want easy, guaranteed kills with no risk of dying themselves.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I see your point . But dying doesn't bother me. I know its part of the game. If getting killed upsets you then you should quit playing MMOs.
Sorry to burst the OP bubble, but I am playing a rank 31 shadow warrior and totally enjoying tier 4 scenarios. Why? Well because I am getting massive amounts of renown (around 3k per scenario) , while on the tier 3 where I can be the top dog I would normally get less than 1k . The lower your lvl the more chances you have to be targetted and killed by the lvl 40's ... BUT ... every kill you participate in will give you a massive amount of renown. All in all tier 4 scenarios are great for lvl 30's .
To OP, doesnt happen that way for me... theres nothing better playing SC's where you wipe 40's... the xp/renown is always so much sweeter
when they are higher levels ...
The idea of L40 only SC is ok but maybe a mathmatical cap would help to determine the quantity of levels would help? rather than a separate SC. More balance on levels within an SC?
BUT please consider the fact that Lvl 40 does not mean they are any good. Ive played premade SC at lvl 32 with my Guild and wiped anything at any level (except Serpents Passage) that the "bad" guys throw at us (obviously we lose sometimes but you dont get xperience any other way).... if your a suicide lemming player or click click kill kill player or dont read the map and objectives to the SC player or doesnt team play player (main assist anyone??) then ANY side which plays together will beat you. Fight together or Die alone and even if you dont win then youve just been bested by the other side... thats PvP just stack up the Q's again and kick there ass!
I started SC'in at lvl 3 on my 3 toons and never stopped.... the only thing I will say is that people dont play there classes for what their purpose is AND expect everyone to know what they are doing eg. when people start shouting healer XXXX is crap, yet when the SC is over the healer has the highest heal score as they are saving everyone doesnt mean the Healer XXXX is crap it means the player whining is crap as they got monstered and cannot wait for the healer who is saving someone else being productive (i mean that in the nicest way as you save a healer time and time again and youve made a friend ingame). All I would say to people is think. The game is PVP which is fluid and you need to pay attention otherwise you will get monstered.
There ARE faults in the game which will be tweaked like any other mmorpg game there is out there.... im sure we have all played them and know what true faults are, I personally have. Unfinished? no.... New mmorpg ... yes... if its an issue with game mechanics then report it in game... if everyone did it they will respond. Not from a 3rd party website?
My Favourite Quotes of WAR seen in an Scenario to date:-
"More pew pew less QQ" and "STOP HITTING THE FREAKIN TANK GETTING HEALED BY THE UNDEFENDED HEALERS YOU RETARDS"
"Obi-Wan Kenobi: We were decieved by a lie; we all were. It appears that SOE is behind everything, including the NGE! After the death of CU, the NGE became their new apprentice."