Im not apologizing ever. Aventurine deserves all the critics and scorn. 1. 8.5 years in development. Some devs could have released TWO MMO's in that amount of time. Well did you check what they were making? This is a really gigantic project. I won't put the "small company" thing in b/c I think that's a BS excuse, but really... they weren't developing that long, 8.5 years ago they only had 1 to 3 people and were just thinking of how the game is going to pan out. If I'm not mistaken, they scrapped their rasorwax darkfall and became aventurine, and around 2003, they completely revamped their game (03 was when the game was first supposed to be released) because they got more money. I think its more like 5 yrs.... and... most really great games have long dev times last i checked. 2. have offered little information over the many years. Even this close to an alleged launch and we no nothing about the game (if it even exists in a workable state).Well EVERY leak says the game is stable, though we have no idea how stable it will be with 10k+ ppl, we will see in the ensuing stress test leaks. Yeah but this point is valid, they've given us barely anything to feed on all these years, and things they give us are mostly just promises, nothing solid. 3. Tasos is an arrogant jerk Dumb point, who cares, he DOES represent the company (i guess?) but he's a freaking developer, not a PR guy! 4. they have refused to allow a reputable source review the game. Give mmorpg.com a beta key and prove the game works as promised. Heck, just prove it exists. Well leaks confirm the game... exists... but yeah this is another valid point. And they haven't refused mmorpg.com last time i checked they said they will "let them in when the time comes" whatever that means, so its too early to cast full judgement... but it WOULD be nice if we got a big site to preview beta. Though note that mmorpg.it is a pretty substantial site. I'll be very happy if this game delivers. Im not currently playing any MMO so I'd be happy to give Darkfall my money if its halfway decent. But apologize, never. You fanbois should take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself why is it so important to you for this game to succeed ? I'll give you the short answer... a fanboy has their heart, head, and ego invested in an item. Any attack or criticism on the item is considered an assault on fanboy's heart, head, and ego. Fanbois are not interested in evidence or past history that might show proof of an impending downfall of item. It is vital that item succeeds and fanbois must convince everyone its awesome. To fail is to damage their ego. Step back for a moment, seperate your ego from this game, open your mind and look at Darkfall for what it is. A game that has spend many years in development with no beta leaks. That right there should tell you something is wrong
Green is me. only points 2 and 4 are kindof valid. Though you are KINDOF right, that aventurine deserved the scorn they got for their rediculous handling of their fanbase during development, they've brought on theirselves. BUT, this is development, which doesn't really matter in the long run... its all about how good the company is after launch. They'll either get better PR w/ the players or go bankrupt in 3 months. A mod in forumfall said this (hamminem maybe, i forgot)
How many times does someone need to post the dev quote interview where they state the game has never been scrapped and restarted ? Someone should stickie it so we wouldnt have to keep reposting it.
Anyone wanna repost it, Im not gonna dig it up for the 20th time.
The game has been in development for 8.5 years period, fact, end of story.
Im not apologizing ever. Aventurine deserves all the critics and scorn. 1. 8.5 years in development. Some devs could have released TWO MMO's in that amount of time. Well did you check what they were making? This is a really gigantic project. I won't put the "small company" thing in b/c I think that's a BS excuse, but really... they weren't developing that long, 8.5 years ago they only had 1 to 3 people and were just thinking of how the game is going to pan out. If I'm not mistaken, they scrapped their rasorwax darkfall and became aventurine, and around 2003, they completely revamped their game (03 was when the game was first supposed to be released) because they got more money. I think its more like 5 yrs.... and... most really great games have long dev times last i checked.
Yay, I get to posts this again for the naive among us:
And before the fanbots scream "It's a new company! The game was completely rebuilt from scratch!!", here's a nice find posted by templarga in another thread: www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2583342#2583342
"GB: It's been nearly two years since we talked to you last, so can you give us a quick summary of where you stand in the development of Darkfall?
Claus: We have come a long way since the first Gamebanshee interview. Back then we had the four guys in a basement, now we have a team of 20 people working hard on finishing the game. We also moved country,from a basement in Oslo, Norway to modern offices close to the Olympic stadium in Athens, Greece. We all have a nice tan now.
Darkfall is entering closed beta testing in September this year. The closed beta is fully playable, with most core features implemented. We will be adding features and content during closed beta, while we gear up for the next beta stages.
GB: In the past couple of years, have any of your design goals changed? Has anything been cut/added from the development process?
Claus: Very little has changed. We have stayed true to the original design, and kept almost all of the features promised when we launched the Darkfall site two years ago. We sadly had to remove some popular features such as flying mounts, for reasons having to do with game balance issues related to sieges, and deformable terrain, due to possible latency issues. We have tried to make up for it by adding more content than originally planned. We'll be looking at possibly implementing these features at a later date. "
Direct quote again: "Jonric: Still looking at the past year or so, what are the notable improvements and additions you've made to Darkfall?
Claus Grovdal: From a design point of view, nothing notable has changed from the main parameters. Last year has been all about adding content plus refining and tweaking various aspects of the game."
-----
Do you see a trend here? Nothing much changed from the original game announced by Razorwax back in 2001. No "revamp". Nothing can be clearer and more obvious.
So, from 2001 to now 2009, that's 8 years of development. Straight from Claus' mouth.
Oh, you'll also note the "closed beta is fully playable with most core features in".
well i for one woldnt apologize for anything. I could care less if DF releases. You fans can quote whoever you want...this game wont be anything anyone wants it to be...and this month has definitely proved it
Im not apologizing ever. Aventurine deserves all the critics and scorn. 1. 8.5 years in development. Some devs could have released TWO MMO's in that amount of time. Well did you check what they were making? This is a really gigantic project. I won't put the "small company" thing in b/c I think that's a BS excuse, but really... they weren't developing that long, 8.5 years ago they only had 1 to 3 people and were just thinking of how the game is going to pan out. If I'm not mistaken, they scrapped their rasorwax darkfall and became aventurine, and around 2003, they completely revamped their game (03 was when the game was first supposed to be released) because they got more money. I think its more like 5 yrs.... and... most really great games have long dev times last i checked.
Yay, I get to posts this again for the naive among us:
And before the fanbots scream "It's a new company! The game was completely rebuilt from scratch!!", here's a nice find posted by templarga in another thread: www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2583342#2583342
"GB: It's been nearly two years since we talked to you last, so can you give us a quick summary of where you stand in the development of Darkfall?
Claus: We have come a long way since the first Gamebanshee interview. Back then we had the four guys in a basement, now we have a team of 20 people working hard on finishing the game. We also moved country,from a basement in Oslo, Norway to modern offices close to the Olympic stadium in Athens, Greece. We all have a nice tan now.
Darkfall is entering closed beta testing in September this year. The closed beta is fully playable, with most core features implemented. We will be adding features and content during closed beta, while we gear up for the next beta stages.
GB: In the past couple of years, have any of your design goals changed? Has anything been cut/added from the development process?
Claus: Very little has changed. We have stayed true to the original design, and kept almost all of the features promised when we launched the Darkfall site two years ago. We sadly had to remove some popular features such as flying mounts, for reasons having to do with game balance issues related to sieges, and deformable terrain, due to possible latency issues. We have tried to make up for it by adding more content than originally planned. We'll be looking at possibly implementing these features at a later date. "
Direct quote again: "Jonric: Still looking at the past year or so, what are the notable improvements and additions you've made to Darkfall?
Claus Grovdal: From a design point of view, nothing notable has changed from the main parameters. Last year has been all about adding content plus refining and tweaking various aspects of the game."
-----
Do you see a trend here? Nothing much changed from the original game announced by Razorwax back in 2001. No "revamp". Nothing can be clearer and more obvious.
So, from 2001 to now 2009, that's 8 years of development. Straight from Claus' mouth.
Oh, you'll also note the "closed beta is fully playable with most core features in".
Outstanding...id hate it if my wife hired you to err...at any rate oustanding chronology and summation.
Outstanding...id hate it if my wife hired you to err...at any rate oustanding chronology and summation.
As much as I'd like to take credit for it, the info was found and collated by templarga in another thread. But I told him I'd be sure to throw it up every time the fanbots started using the "whole new company and game" spiel.
Why do you care how long they have been developing the game? As a fan of MMO's and a follower and player of them since 1997, I've seen some released within a year of being announced and some suck and some are good/decent. I've seen some released 2-3 years after being announced and some suck and some are good/decent.
Who exactly sets the time table for how long a game can be in development? And why do you care? If the game is released and is terrible we all will know about it then, if the game is released and is all it was promised, we'll know about it then also. Posting quotes from years ago means nothing to me. You want to choose to believe it's all false then move on to the next game, if you choose to believe it's going to be a game worth playing then stick around. IT"S REALLY THAT F'NG SIMPLE
Im not apologizing ever. Aventurine deserves all the critics and scorn. 1. 8.5 years in development. Some devs could have released TWO MMO's in that amount of time. Well did you check what they were making? This is a really gigantic project. I won't put the "small company" thing in b/c I think that's a BS excuse, but really... they weren't developing that long, 8.5 years ago they only had 1 to 3 people and were just thinking of how the game is going to pan out. If I'm not mistaken, they scrapped their rasorwax darkfall and became aventurine, and around 2003, they completely revamped their game (03 was when the game was first supposed to be released) because they got more money. I think its more like 5 yrs.... and... most really great games have long dev times last i checked. 2. have offered little information over the many years. Even this close to an alleged launch and we no nothing about the game (if it even exists in a workable state).Well EVERY leak says the game is stable, though we have no idea how stable it will be with 10k+ ppl, we will see in the ensuing stress test leaks. Yeah but this point is valid, they've given us barely anything to feed on all these years, and things they give us are mostly just promises, nothing solid. 3. Tasos is an arrogant jerk Dumb point, who cares, he DOES represent the company (i guess?) but he's a freaking developer, not a PR guy! 4. they have refused to allow a reputable source review the game. Give mmorpg.com a beta key and prove the game works as promised. Heck, just prove it exists. Well leaks confirm the game... exists... but yeah this is another valid point. And they haven't refused mmorpg.com last time i checked they said they will "let them in when the time comes" whatever that means, so its too early to cast full judgement... but it WOULD be nice if we got a big site to preview beta. Though note that mmorpg.it is a pretty substantial site. I'll be very happy if this game delivers. Im not currently playing any MMO so I'd be happy to give Darkfall my money if its halfway decent. But apologize, never. You fanbois should take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself why is it so important to you for this game to succeed ? I'll give you the short answer... a fanboy has their heart, head, and ego invested in an item. Any attack or criticism on the item is considered an assault on fanboy's heart, head, and ego. Fanbois are not interested in evidence or past history that might show proof of an impending downfall of item. It is vital that item succeeds and fanbois must convince everyone its awesome. To fail is to damage their ego. Step back for a moment, seperate your ego from this game, open your mind and look at Darkfall for what it is. A game that has spend many years in development with no beta leaks. That right there should tell you something is wrong
Green is me. only points 2 and 4 are kindof valid. Though you are KINDOF right, that aventurine deserved the scorn they got for their rediculous handling of their fanbase during development, they've brought on theirselves. BUT, this is development, which doesn't really matter in the long run... its all about how good the company is after launch. They'll either get better PR w/ the players or go bankrupt in 3 months. A mod in forumfall said this (hamminem maybe, i forgot)
How many times does someone need to post the dev quote interview where they state the game has never been scrapped and restarted ? Someone should stickie it so we wouldnt have to keep reposting it.
Anyone wanna repost it, Im not gonna dig it up for the 20th time.
The game has been in development for 8.5 years period, fact, end of story.
Oh and what beta leaks were you referring too ? ive yet to see a single video from beta leaked by someone. All Ive seen is the same single post probably made by Tasos sister. There still isnt any real leaks and that says something
O.o i thought the game was scrapped once, never mind then its 8.5 yrs, still... so what?
And when I refer to beta leaks... I am referring to beta leaks... not "beta leak videos" like you want, though you are right, not all leaks can be trusted (though leakreader2 is a pretty solid source, as betaleaks.com gave him the clear as the first DF leaker after he showed them proof, the newest leak is real b/c its actually on the DF beta website...
Though yes this game could all be a scam and flys may all have probes placed by aliens to spy on us. Don't take off your tinfoil hat if you're that worried
Why do you care how long they have been developing the game? As a fan of MMO's and a follower and player of them since 1997, I've seen some released within a year of being announced and some suck and some are good/decent. I've seen some released 2-3 years after being announced and some suck and some are good/decent. Who exactly sets the time table for how long a game can be in development? And why do you care? If the game is released and is terrible we all will know about it then, if the game is released and is all it was promised, we'll know about it then also. Posting quotes from years ago means nothing to me. You want to choose to believe it's all false then move on to the next game, if you choose to believe it's going to be a game worth playing then stick around. IT"S REALLY THAT F'NG SIMPLE
I think because games like Shadowbane had a long dev time, they are trying to tie in "long dev time with failure", overlooking the countless games where long dev time did nothing but help
Let's just say, hypothetically (meaning if you respond with "It's vaporwarz" or "It will suck" you're a complete moron), that Darkfall launches and is as awesome as it sounds and as leakers have stated, and that it has all the features that we have now seen in recent leaks, what will all you haters and trolls do? Will you apologize on the forums? Will you merely vanish into thin air? Will you come on here and admit that you were wrong? Will you still hate on the game? I know I will be the first to come on here and say, "I was wrong, you guys were right" if it: A) doesn't launch or is buggy as hell at launch (meaning has extensive bugs, not the bugs that EVERY MMO that launches inevitably has) or C) is missing a lot (not a couple or some minor ones) of features
So what will it be?
Just to clarify, I am neutral in this ongoing war between the trolls and fanbois. However I am very much so against Aventurine promising the MMORPG communtiy of certain dates, beta, release, etc. and then breaking their promises by their incompetence to deliver what they said they would. So you may classify me and label me what you will.
But for the OP, I would like to turn the tables on you so you can get a taste of how you are treating others.
Enjoy!
Let's just say, hypothetically (meaning if you respond with "It's real and revolutionary " or "It is going to OWN everything on <please insert date here>" you're a complete moron), that Darkfall does not launch and is as invisible as it sounds. Also as realsitic sensible people have stated that it may not have all the features that they promise to have and we have not seen in any means of proof, what will all you "blind-faith followers" and fanbois do?
Will you apologize on the forums?
Will you merely vanish into thin air?
Will you come on here and admit that you were wrong?
Will you still love the game?
I know I will be the first to come on here and say, "I was right, you guys were wrong" if it:
A) does not release any actual beta footage.
or
does not release any open beta on dates Aventurine promises.
And while some do consider SB to be a failure, I consider it to be one of the most fun times I've had in a MMO. It wasn't stable, had point and click movement, and a lot of other problem, but it was fun, that's what games are supposed to be right? Not work like some games where it is a constant grind to get newer and better gear in a never ending cycle.
I will be one of the first to congratulate the fan on having a game they can enjoy for years to come. Though so far my calls have been spot on.
Well with 54 views at least someone on here has some balls.
And this thread has proven myself and many other's views that most of you on here are all talk with nothing to back you up.
You sit behind your computer screens with a forum tag and bash and bash and hate and hate a game and a company that has yet to even be released, and then when someone tries to have you man up a little, you shrivle away.
This, my friends, is why most of you will not be able to handle Darkfall and although many of you will try it, most of you will quit.
You have some fans saying "All this pre-launch forum crap doesn't matter, why bother with the fanboiy/troll war? Go get a life".
Then we have Exhibit B here.
In response to the original post, if I'm wrong about DF and it really turns out to be great, relatively bug-free (no game-breaking ones) and delivers on I'd say at least 85% of the features they promised, I'll apologize. This is just so funny.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
seriously, who cares if someone said blah blah blah to this scam or is a fanboi, you will came here and check it? please get a life or a job, i dont care what you do just get paid to.
Why do you care how long they have been developing the game? As a fan of MMO's and a follower and player of them since 1997, I've seen some released within a year of being announced and some suck and some are good/decent. I've seen some released 2-3 years after being announced and some suck and some are good/decent. Who exactly sets the time table for how long a game can be in development? And why do you care? If the game is released and is terrible we all will know about it then, if the game is released and is all it was promised, we'll know about it then also. Posting quotes from years ago means nothing to me. You want to choose to believe it's all false then move on to the next game, if you choose to believe it's going to be a game worth playing then stick around. IT"S REALLY THAT F'NG SIMPLE
I think because games like Shadowbane had a long dev time, they are trying to tie in "long dev time with failure", overlooking the countless games where long dev time did nothing but help
It's not so much the long dev time, it's the ongoing recycling of the same stuff from the devs year after year. Acting like the game is a national secret, to be shown only to the privileged worthy. Constantly regurgitating the "game is playable" and "game could release today if it wanted" crap.
If the damn game was "playable in beta" in 2003, and they've had "professional testers" ingame for the last few years, there should have been no delay. The game should have been polished and all the neccessities ( like billing, system requirements, client hosting and download, etc. ).
The game was "playable in beta" 6 years ago, and they still couldn't find time to get everything else setup until last minute? They had 300,000+ forum goers ( which Tasos bragged about every chance he got, especially in front of possible investors ), but had no clue there would be more than 10,000 wanting to play?
That is the problem. Too many things that just don't add up, unless the devs are just totally and completely clueless morons. In which case, that doesn't exactly inspire hope either, does it?
Just to clarify, I am neutral in this ongoing war between the trolls and fanbois. However I am very much so against Aventurine promising the MMORPG communtiy of certain dates, beta, release, etc. and then breaking their promises by their incompetence to deliver what they said they would. So you may classify me and label me what you will. But for the OP, I would like to turn the tables on you so you can get a taste of how you are treating others. Enjoy!
And let me turn that on you, you say your against them breaking promising. So then would you rather them keep their promise and release a incomplete game like other companies have done or would you rather them not make any promises? Which would then have people screaming because they aren't telling us anything? Hell we already right now have people in the same threads cussing them for not saying anything while others are cussing them for what they have said. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't no win scenario. Some on will always find a problem with it.
Myself, after being through this same thing for many games, I could care less what they say or don't say, if they release a game that is fun, i'm happy. If they don't, then i'll move on to the next one, or back to a previous one.
Why do you care how long they have been developing the game? As a fan of MMO's and a follower and player of them since 1997, I've seen some released within a year of being announced and some suck and some are good/decent. I've seen some released 2-3 years after being announced and some suck and some are good/decent. Who exactly sets the time table for how long a game can be in development? And why do you care? If the game is released and is terrible we all will know about it then, if the game is released and is all it was promised, we'll know about it then also. Posting quotes from years ago means nothing to me. You want to choose to believe it's all false then move on to the next game, if you choose to believe it's going to be a game worth playing then stick around. IT"S REALLY THAT F'NG SIMPLE
I think because games like Shadowbane had a long dev time, they are trying to tie in "long dev time with failure", overlooking the countless games where long dev time did nothing but help
It's not so much the long dev time, it's the ongoing recycling of the same stuff from the devs year after year. Acting like the game is a national secret, to be shown only to the privileged worthy. Constantly regurgitating the "game is playable" and "game could release today if it wanted" crap. If the damn game was "playable in beta" in 2003, and they've had "professional testers" ingame for the last few years, there should have been no delay. The game should have been polished and all the neccessities ( like billing, system requirements, client hosting and download, etc. The game was "playable in beta" 6 years ago, and they still couldn't find time to get everything else setup until last minute? They had 300,000+ forum goers, but had no clue there would be more than 10,000 wanting to play?
That is the problem. Too many things that just don't add up, unless the devs are just totally and completely clueless morons. In which case, that doesn't exactly inspire hope either, does it?
They said it was playable, that could mean many things depending on how you want to take it. Obviously you want to take it as, they meant that right now they could launch and compete with other MMO's. I took it as, We can log in to the servers in house and play the game right now, it's not just something written on paper.
That is two completely different things. I could program a world and characters and make towns so that you could log into the world and play, and I could tell people it was playable. That doesn't mean that 10,000 other people could log in and play it with me. At those times should they have said "Our game is currently being developed still, we have been able to log into the servers on our characters in house and play it with limited features for some times now, but it isn't ready to be called a MMO at this time". Sure that would have been great, but as the saying goes hindsight is 20/20.
Just to clarify, I am neutral in this ongoing war between the trolls and fanbois. However I am very much so against Aventurine promising the MMORPG communtiy of certain dates, beta, release, etc. and then breaking their promises by their incompetence to deliver what they said they would. So you may classify me and label me what you will. But for the OP, I would like to turn the tables on you so you can get a taste of how you are treating others. Enjoy!
And let me turn that on you, you say your against them breaking promising. So then would you rather them keep their promise and release a incomplete game like other companies have done or would you rather them not make any promises? Which would then have people screaming because they aren't telling us anything? Hell we already right now have people in the same threads cussing them for not saying anything while others are cussing them for what they have said. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't no win scenario. Some on will always find a problem with it.
Myself, after being through this same thing for many games, I could care less what they say or don't say, if they release a game that is fun, i'm happy. If they don't, then i'll move on to the next one, or back to a previous one.
Honestly I'd rather that they 1) Don't make promises they can't keep in the first place, and 2) If something unexpected does happen, they tell the community. Of course Tasos had to explain why he didn't launch on 1/22 because that was his biggest promise that he made - he said he'd never set a release date unless he was 100% sure he could meet it.
Aventurine making promises does NOT equal them telling us things. What we mean when we say they don't tell us anything is facts...information...videos...podcasts...Developer Chats/Blogs...anything, more than they're doing at the moment. They've been developing it for many years and they need to show more for it.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Just to clarify, I am neutral in this ongoing war between the trolls and fanbois. However I am very much so against Aventurine promising the MMORPG communtiy of certain dates, beta, release, etc. and then breaking their promises by their incompetence to deliver what they said they would. So you may classify me and label me what you will. But for the OP, I would like to turn the tables on you so you can get a taste of how you are treating others. Enjoy!
And let me turn that on you, you say your against them breaking promising. So then would you rather them keep their promise and release a incomplete game like other companies have done or would you rather them not make any promises? Which would then have people screaming because they aren't telling us anything? Hell we already right now have people in the same threads cussing them for not saying anything while others are cussing them for what they have said. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't no win scenario. Some on will always find a problem with it.
Myself, after being through this same thing for many games, I could care less what they say or don't say, if they release a game that is fun, i'm happy. If they don't, then i'll move on to the next one, or back to a previous one.
Yes, I know this may come as a shocker and to your astonishment, but I do believe in honesty and trust. I hold those two values very highly in my life, despite the fact that the rest of the world, including much of the people in it, do not.
To answer your question... No, I do not wish for them to release a incomplete game, which goes without saying. So please do not insult me. Rather, the logical scenario at this point would be for Aventurine to stop announcing any dates at all if they are not going to deliver on those exact dates what they promise.
I don't expect them or anyone to follow an example of honesty so I know that more than likely they will keep doing what they are doing. Decieving people and dragging them on a roller coaster ride. Well, I can only speak for myself, I refuse to ride!
Let's just say, hypothetically (meaning if you respond with "It's vaporwarz" or "It will suck" you're a complete moron), that Darkfall launches and is as awesome as it sounds and as leakers have stated, and that it has all the features that we have now seen in recent leaks, what will all you haters and trolls do? Will you apologize on the forums? Will you merely vanish into thin air? Will you come on here and admit that you were wrong? Will you still hate on the game? I know I will be the first to come on here and say, "I was wrong, you guys were right" if it: A) doesn't launch or is buggy as hell at launch (meaning has extensive bugs, not the bugs that EVERY MMO that launches inevitably has) or C) is missing a lot (not a couple or some minor ones) of features
So what will it be?
Just to clarify, I am neutral in this ongoing war between the trolls and fanbois. However I am very much so against Aventurine promising the MMORPG communtiy of certain dates, beta, release, etc. and then breaking their promises by their incompetence to deliver what they said they would. So you may classify me and label me what you will.
But for the OP, I would like to turn the tables on you so you can get a taste of how you are treating others.
Enjoy!
Let's just say, hypothetically (meaning if you respond with "It's real and revolutionary " or "It is going to OWN everything on <please insert date here>" you're a complete moron), that Darkfall does not launch and is as invisible as it sounds. Also as realsitic sensible people have stated that it may not have all the features that they promise to have and we have not seen in any means of proof, what will all you "blind-faith followers" and fanbois do?
Will you apologize on the forums?
Will you merely vanish into thin air?
Will you come on here and admit that you were wrong?
Will you still love the game?
I know I will be the first to come on here and say, "I was right, you guys were wrong" if it:
A) does not release any actual beta footage.
or
does not release any open beta on dates Aventurine promises.
or
C) does not release the game at all.
So what will it be?
I would log on after the fact, and if I don't you can disregard anything I've ever posted, and say that yes, I was wrong, and yes, I was fooled, and yes, I was lied to into buying a game.
But from all the current new beta testers I've been chatting with, that's not going to be the case
The whole community will find out soon enough in time, and sorry if I can't go into further details, I'm a little fucked up right now. Hail all mighty Friday night at UNC Chapel Hill. WOOT WOOT!
Let's just say, hypothetically (meaning if you respond with "It's vaporwarz" or "It will suck" you're a complete moron), that Darkfall launches and is as awesome as it sounds and as leakers have stated, and that it has all the features that we have now seen in recent leaks, what will all you haters and trolls do? Will you apologize on the forums? Will you merely vanish into thin air? Will you come on here and admit that you were wrong? Will you still hate on the game? I know I will be the first to come on here and say, "I was wrong, you guys were right" if it: A) doesn't launch or is buggy as hell at launch (meaning has extensive bugs, not the bugs that EVERY MMO that launches inevitably has) or C) is missing a lot (not a couple or some minor ones) of features
So what will it be?
Probably the same thing that happened in August. 2 or 3 will say they are sorry, and the rest will just vanish. Trolls are cowards. After August almost every single one of them ran for the hills.
Why apologise? It's a game (or not! ), not a person. I find it bizarre that so many people act as if it's some sort of cult religion. I see no reason why anyone should apologise for anything other than being nasty to each other and only then if they feel guilty about it. People say crap to each other on forums - who cares? It's not a big deal, is it?
Dont you get it Darkfall religion JOIN US NOW and you be saved:D
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Comments
Green is me. only points 2 and 4 are kindof valid. Though you are KINDOF right, that aventurine deserved the scorn they got for their rediculous handling of their fanbase during development, they've brought on theirselves. BUT, this is development, which doesn't really matter in the long run... its all about how good the company is after launch. They'll either get better PR w/ the players or go bankrupt in 3 months. A mod in forumfall said this (hamminem maybe, i forgot)
How many times does someone need to post the dev quote interview where they state the game has never been scrapped and restarted ? Someone should stickie it so we wouldnt have to keep reposting it.
Anyone wanna repost it, Im not gonna dig it up for the 20th time.
The game has been in development for 8.5 years period, fact, end of story.
Hope its worth the wait!
Yay, I get to posts this again for the naive among us:
And before the fanbots scream "It's a new company! The game was completely rebuilt from scratch!!", here's a nice find posted by templarga in another thread: www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2583342#2583342
Found it myself:
1. FAQ over at WarCry: df.warcry.com/faq/view/237/
If you click on the "What is razorwax?" question (1.3) it will give you the history of Razorwax, Aventurine and Darkfall.
2. Here is a detailed article at WarCry about the history of the game up to the point the article was written (2007): www.warcry.com/articles/view/editorials/3222-Surlys-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurine-Heres-the-Rub
3. Here is an interview from 2003 at GameBanshee:www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/darkfall2-1.php
This is a direct quote from the interview:
"GB: It's been nearly two years since we talked to you last, so can you give us a quick summary of where you stand in the development of Darkfall?
Claus: We have come a long way since the first Gamebanshee interview. Back then we had the four guys in a basement, now we have a team of 20 people working hard on finishing the game. We also moved country,from a basement in Oslo, Norway to modern offices close to the Olympic stadium in Athens, Greece. We all have a nice tan now.
Darkfall is entering closed beta testing in September this year. The closed beta is fully playable, with most core features implemented. We will be adding features and content during closed beta, while we gear up for the next beta stages.
GB: In the past couple of years, have any of your design goals changed? Has anything been cut/added from the development process?
Claus: Very little has changed. We have stayed true to the original design, and kept almost all of the features promised when we launched the Darkfall site two years ago. We sadly had to remove some popular features such as flying mounts, for reasons having to do with game balance issues related to sieges, and deformable terrain, due to possible latency issues. We have tried to make up for it by adding more content than originally planned. We'll be looking at possibly implementing these features at a later date. "
4. Here is an interview at IGnVault in 2005: rpgvault.ign.com/articles/671/671666p1.html
Direct quote again: "Jonric: Still looking at the past year or so, what are the notable improvements and additions you've made to Darkfall?
Claus Grovdal: From a design point of view, nothing notable has changed from the main parameters. Last year has been all about adding content plus refining and tweaking various aspects of the game."
-----
Do you see a trend here? Nothing much changed from the original game announced by Razorwax back in 2001. No "revamp". Nothing can be clearer and more obvious.
So, from 2001 to now 2009, that's 8 years of development. Straight from Claus' mouth.
Oh, you'll also note the "closed beta is fully playable with most core features in".
well i for one woldnt apologize for anything. I could care less if DF releases. You fans can quote whoever you want...this game wont be anything anyone wants it to be...and this month has definitely proved it
Yay, I get to posts this again for the naive among us:
And before the fanbots scream "It's a new company! The game was completely rebuilt from scratch!!", here's a nice find posted by templarga in another thread: www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2583342#2583342
Found it myself:
1. FAQ over at WarCry: df.warcry.com/faq/view/237/
If you click on the "What is razorwax?" question (1.3) it will give you the history of Razorwax, Aventurine and Darkfall.
2. Here is a detailed article at WarCry about the history of the game up to the point the article was written (2007): www.warcry.com/articles/view/editorials/3222-Surlys-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurine-Heres-the-Rub
3. Here is an interview from 2003 at GameBanshee:www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/darkfall2-1.php
This is a direct quote from the interview:
"GB: It's been nearly two years since we talked to you last, so can you give us a quick summary of where you stand in the development of Darkfall?
Claus: We have come a long way since the first Gamebanshee interview. Back then we had the four guys in a basement, now we have a team of 20 people working hard on finishing the game. We also moved country,from a basement in Oslo, Norway to modern offices close to the Olympic stadium in Athens, Greece. We all have a nice tan now.
Darkfall is entering closed beta testing in September this year. The closed beta is fully playable, with most core features implemented. We will be adding features and content during closed beta, while we gear up for the next beta stages.
GB: In the past couple of years, have any of your design goals changed? Has anything been cut/added from the development process?
Claus: Very little has changed. We have stayed true to the original design, and kept almost all of the features promised when we launched the Darkfall site two years ago. We sadly had to remove some popular features such as flying mounts, for reasons having to do with game balance issues related to sieges, and deformable terrain, due to possible latency issues. We have tried to make up for it by adding more content than originally planned. We'll be looking at possibly implementing these features at a later date. "
4. Here is an interview at IGnVault in 2005: rpgvault.ign.com/articles/671/671666p1.html
Direct quote again: "Jonric: Still looking at the past year or so, what are the notable improvements and additions you've made to Darkfall?
Claus Grovdal: From a design point of view, nothing notable has changed from the main parameters. Last year has been all about adding content plus refining and tweaking various aspects of the game."
-----
Do you see a trend here? Nothing much changed from the original game announced by Razorwax back in 2001. No "revamp". Nothing can be clearer and more obvious.
So, from 2001 to now 2009, that's 8 years of development. Straight from Claus' mouth.
Oh, you'll also note the "closed beta is fully playable with most core features in".
Outstanding...id hate it if my wife hired you to err...at any rate oustanding chronology and summation.
As much as I'd like to take credit for it, the info was found and collated by templarga in another thread. But I told him I'd be sure to throw it up every time the fanbots started using the "whole new company and game" spiel.
Why do you care how long they have been developing the game? As a fan of MMO's and a follower and player of them since 1997, I've seen some released within a year of being announced and some suck and some are good/decent. I've seen some released 2-3 years after being announced and some suck and some are good/decent.
Who exactly sets the time table for how long a game can be in development? And why do you care? If the game is released and is terrible we all will know about it then, if the game is released and is all it was promised, we'll know about it then also. Posting quotes from years ago means nothing to me. You want to choose to believe it's all false then move on to the next game
, if you choose to believe it's going to be a game worth playing then stick around.
IT"S REALLY THAT F'NG SIMPLE
Green is me. only points 2 and 4 are kindof valid. Though you are KINDOF right, that aventurine deserved the scorn they got for their rediculous handling of their fanbase during development, they've brought on theirselves. BUT, this is development, which doesn't really matter in the long run... its all about how good the company is after launch. They'll either get better PR w/ the players or go bankrupt in 3 months. A mod in forumfall said this (hamminem maybe, i forgot)
How many times does someone need to post the dev quote interview where they state the game has never been scrapped and restarted ? Someone should stickie it so we wouldnt have to keep reposting it.
Anyone wanna repost it, Im not gonna dig it up for the 20th time.
The game has been in development for 8.5 years period, fact, end of story.
Oh and what beta leaks were you referring too ? ive yet to see a single video from beta leaked by someone. All Ive seen is the same single post probably made by Tasos sister. There still isnt any real leaks and that says something
O.o i thought the game was scrapped once, never mind then its 8.5 yrs, still... so what?
And when I refer to beta leaks... I am referring to beta leaks... not "beta leak videos" like you want, though you are right, not all leaks can be trusted (though leakreader2 is a pretty solid source, as betaleaks.com gave him the clear as the first DF leaker after he showed them proof, the newest leak is real b/c its actually on the DF beta website...
Though yes this game could all be a scam and flys may all have probes placed by aliens to spy on us. Don't take off your tinfoil hat if you're that worried
When I'm energetic I'm:
the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
When I'm at default I'm:
WHITE/BLUE
Lol according to this I'm bipolar :O
you're absolutely right, i misstepped, but you missed my major point, that if anything, its a good thing that a game's been in dev so long...
When I'm energetic I'm:
the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
When I'm at default I'm:
WHITE/BLUE
Lol according to this I'm bipolar :O
I think because games like Shadowbane had a long dev time, they are trying to tie in "long dev time with failure", overlooking the countless games where long dev time did nothing but help
When I'm energetic I'm:
the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
When I'm at default I'm:
WHITE/BLUE
Lol according to this I'm bipolar :O
you're absolutely right, i misstepped, but you missed my major point, that if anything, its a good thing that a game's been in dev so long...
Who?
Wow. This brings back memories. I remember seeing threads exactly like this one right before Vanguard launched.
Just to clarify, I am neutral in this ongoing war between the trolls and fanbois. However I am very much so against Aventurine promising the MMORPG communtiy of certain dates, beta, release, etc. and then breaking their promises by their incompetence to deliver what they said they would. So you may classify me and label me what you will.
But for the OP, I would like to turn the tables on you so you can get a taste of how you are treating others.
Enjoy!
Let's just say, hypothetically (meaning if you respond with "It's real and revolutionary " or "It is going to OWN everything on <please insert date here>" you're a complete moron), that Darkfall does not launch and is as invisible as it sounds. Also as realsitic sensible people have stated that it may not have all the features that they promise to have and we have not seen in any means of proof, what will all you "blind-faith followers" and fanbois do?
Will you apologize on the forums?
Will you merely vanish into thin air?
Will you come on here and admit that you were wrong?
Will you still love the game?
I know I will be the first to come on here and say, "I was right, you guys were wrong" if it:
A) does not release any actual beta footage.
or
or
C) does not release the game at all.
So what will it be?
____________________________________________________________
The views expressed in this post are solely those of my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of pyromaniacs.
And while some do consider SB to be a failure, I consider it to be one of the most fun times I've had in a MMO. It wasn't stable, had point and click movement, and a lot of other problem, but it was fun, that's what games are supposed to be right? Not work like some games where it is a constant grind to get newer and better gear in a never ending cycle.
Well with 54 views at least someone on here has some balls.
And this thread has proven myself and many other's views that most of you on here are all talk with nothing to back you up.
You sit behind your computer screens with a forum tag and bash and bash and hate and hate a game and a company that has yet to even be released, and then when someone tries to have you man up a little, you shrivle away.
This, my friends, is why most of you will not be able to handle Darkfall and although many of you will try it, most of you will quit.
You have some fans saying "All this pre-launch forum crap doesn't matter, why bother with the fanboiy/troll war? Go get a life".
Then we have Exhibit B here.
In response to the original post, if I'm wrong about DF and it really turns out to be great, relatively bug-free (no game-breaking ones) and delivers on I'd say at least 85% of the features they promised, I'll apologize. This is just so funny.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
seriously, who cares if someone said blah blah blah to this scam or is a fanboi, you will came here and check it? please get a life or a job, i dont care what you do just get paid to.
There is no knowledge that is no power.
I think because games like Shadowbane had a long dev time, they are trying to tie in "long dev time with failure", overlooking the countless games where long dev time did nothing but help
It's not so much the long dev time, it's the ongoing recycling of the same stuff from the devs year after year. Acting like the game is a national secret, to be shown only to the privileged worthy. Constantly regurgitating the "game is playable" and "game could release today if it wanted" crap.
If the damn game was "playable in beta" in 2003, and they've had "professional testers" ingame for the last few years, there should have been no delay. The game should have been polished and all the neccessities ( like billing, system requirements, client hosting and download, etc. ).
The game was "playable in beta" 6 years ago, and they still couldn't find time to get everything else setup until last minute? They had 300,000+ forum goers ( which Tasos bragged about every chance he got, especially in front of possible investors ), but had no clue there would be more than 10,000 wanting to play?
That is the problem. Too many things that just don't add up, unless the devs are just totally and completely clueless morons. In which case, that doesn't exactly inspire hope either, does it?
And let me turn that on you, you say your against them breaking promising. So then would you rather them keep their promise and release a incomplete game like other companies have done or would you rather them not make any promises? Which would then have people screaming because they aren't telling us anything? Hell we already right now have people in the same threads cussing them for not saying anything while others are cussing them for what they have said. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't no win scenario. Some on will always find a problem with it.
Myself, after being through this same thing for many games, I could care less what they say or don't say, if they release a game that is fun, i'm happy. If they don't, then i'll move on to the next one, or back to a previous one.
I think because games like Shadowbane had a long dev time, they are trying to tie in "long dev time with failure", overlooking the countless games where long dev time did nothing but help
It's not so much the long dev time, it's the ongoing recycling of the same stuff from the devs year after year. Acting like the game is a national secret, to be shown only to the privileged worthy. Constantly regurgitating the "game is playable" and "game could release today if it wanted" crap. If the damn game was "playable in beta" in 2003, and they've had "professional testers" ingame for the last few years, there should have been no delay. The game should have been polished and all the neccessities ( like billing, system requirements, client hosting and download, etc. The game was "playable in beta" 6 years ago, and they still couldn't find time to get everything else setup until last minute? They had 300,000+ forum goers, but had no clue there would be more than 10,000 wanting to play?
That is the problem. Too many things that just don't add up, unless the devs are just totally and completely clueless morons. In which case, that doesn't exactly inspire hope either, does it?
They said it was playable, that could mean many things depending on how you want to take it. Obviously you want to take it as, they meant that right now they could launch and compete with other MMO's. I took it as, We can log in to the servers in house and play the game right now, it's not just something written on paper.
That is two completely different things. I could program a world and characters and make towns so that you could log into the world and play, and I could tell people it was playable. That doesn't mean that 10,000 other people could log in and play it with me. At those times should they have said "Our game is currently being developed still, we have been able to log into the servers on our characters in house and play it with limited features for some times now, but it isn't ready to be called a MMO at this time". Sure that would have been great, but as the saying goes hindsight is 20/20.
And let me turn that on you, you say your against them breaking promising. So then would you rather them keep their promise and release a incomplete game like other companies have done or would you rather them not make any promises? Which would then have people screaming because they aren't telling us anything? Hell we already right now have people in the same threads cussing them for not saying anything while others are cussing them for what they have said. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't no win scenario. Some on will always find a problem with it.
Myself, after being through this same thing for many games, I could care less what they say or don't say, if they release a game that is fun, i'm happy. If they don't, then i'll move on to the next one, or back to a previous one.
Honestly I'd rather that they 1) Don't make promises they can't keep in the first place, and 2) If something unexpected does happen, they tell the community. Of course Tasos had to explain why he didn't launch on 1/22 because that was his biggest promise that he made - he said he'd never set a release date unless he was 100% sure he could meet it.
Aventurine making promises does NOT equal them telling us things. What we mean when we say they don't tell us anything is facts...information...videos...podcasts...Developer Chats/Blogs...anything, more than they're doing at the moment. They've been developing it for many years and they need to show more for it.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
And let me turn that on you, you say your against them breaking promising. So then would you rather them keep their promise and release a incomplete game like other companies have done or would you rather them not make any promises? Which would then have people screaming because they aren't telling us anything? Hell we already right now have people in the same threads cussing them for not saying anything while others are cussing them for what they have said. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't no win scenario. Some on will always find a problem with it.
Myself, after being through this same thing for many games, I could care less what they say or don't say, if they release a game that is fun, i'm happy. If they don't, then i'll move on to the next one, or back to a previous one.
Yes, I know this may come as a shocker and to your astonishment, but I do believe in honesty and trust. I hold those two values very highly in my life, despite the fact that the rest of the world, including much of the people in it, do not.
To answer your question... No, I do not wish for them to release a incomplete game, which goes without saying. So please do not insult me. Rather, the logical scenario at this point would be for Aventurine to stop announcing any dates at all if they are not going to deliver on those exact dates what they promise.
I don't expect them or anyone to follow an example of honesty so I know that more than likely they will keep doing what they are doing. Decieving people and dragging them on a roller coaster ride. Well, I can only speak for myself, I refuse to ride!
____________________________________________________________
The views expressed in this post are solely those of my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of pyromaniacs.
Just to clarify, I am neutral in this ongoing war between the trolls and fanbois. However I am very much so against Aventurine promising the MMORPG communtiy of certain dates, beta, release, etc. and then breaking their promises by their incompetence to deliver what they said they would. So you may classify me and label me what you will.
But for the OP, I would like to turn the tables on you so you can get a taste of how you are treating others.
Enjoy!
Let's just say, hypothetically (meaning if you respond with "It's real and revolutionary " or "It is going to OWN everything on <please insert date here>" you're a complete moron), that Darkfall does not launch and is as invisible as it sounds. Also as realsitic sensible people have stated that it may not have all the features that they promise to have and we have not seen in any means of proof, what will all you "blind-faith followers" and fanbois do?
Will you apologize on the forums?
Will you merely vanish into thin air?
Will you come on here and admit that you were wrong?
Will you still love the game?
I know I will be the first to come on here and say, "I was right, you guys were wrong" if it:
A) does not release any actual beta footage.
or
or
C) does not release the game at all.
So what will it be?
I would log on after the fact, and if I don't you can disregard anything I've ever posted, and say that yes, I was wrong, and yes, I was fooled, and yes, I was lied to into buying a game.
But from all the current new beta testers I've been chatting with, that's not going to be the case
The whole community will find out soon enough in time, and sorry if I can't go into further details, I'm a little fucked up right now. Hail all mighty Friday night at UNC Chapel Hill. WOOT WOOT!
Probably the same thing that happened in August. 2 or 3 will say they are sorry, and the rest will just vanish. Trolls are cowards. After August almost every single one of them ran for the hills.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Dont you get it Darkfall religion JOIN US NOW and you be saved:D
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I will apologize.
But at this time, I still think it is crap. And I don't think otherwise till proven different.
I will gladly apologize (as if it matters anyway).
But I think I'm safe.