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There Was A Reason Felucca Became A Ghost Town...
Because when you don't give your players a choice to play NON-PvP, and when they don't know the difference, chances are - their going to just play the game for what it gives them. The times have changed, I personally enjoyed pre-Kunark EQ, but - those days are gone. I do like to PvP, but let's face it - full-loot? That's Retarded, and only gankers and trolls will play this game for the sake of killing eachother worldwide over and over again - and guess what? That's nothing different compared to WoW - save for the fact that rather than playing in a battleground or whatnot, it's WORLDWIDE...... 
I'll probably try Darkfall, but after being ganked a bit I'll just quit and get my credit card company to reimburse my money. It's all good. 
Comments
Sorry bro, don't see what you are getting at.
Don't play if you can't handle it. It was never advertised to cater to the non-competitive gamer. Yes, it will be a world full of people backstabbing each other all the time. There will just be people who are better at it than others. I hope Adventurine and Star Vault don't give in and cater to the carebears.
If people can have their anti-pvp theme park games, why can't people also have some more hardcore pvp sandbox games?
Leave, this game is not for you.
If you dont like the concept behind the game or the rule set then dont play it.
I dont go to a skater shop and insist they offer me abercrombie items. I choose the shop that offers me what Im looking for.
Common freakin sense.
Because those "hardcore" games like Darkfall won't withstand bankruptcy. Let's say, and this is only an example, 100k people try Darkfall. Afterward, only 5k stay. You really think 5,000 subscribers will hold the game afloat? Releasing with Full-PvP and Full-Loot will be great, sure, but after six months of it? No one ever read that one story about how a guy and his buddy spent two weeks in UO farming a shit-ton of items and money, then - out of nowhere - some asshole popped up and "literally" killed them and took TWO WEEKS of items/gold/silver. The right thing to do would make a Full-PvP, No-Loot server. Would that really hurt the game? If anything the Looters could just hang out on their server while the Non-Looters could do their thing on their own server. It makes sense. And I'll even place a bet that the Non-Loot server constantly remains over-populated. It's statistics. Think about it. If players aren't given a CHOICE, their going to go to another game, and if this game can't hold up subs, then it's going to eventually die off MUCH quicker than you could ever think of.
And You're right, carebears do have their own games, but they want something new - something refreshing - I'm not looking at the interest of the mainstream, casual gamer - I'm looking at the interests of Aventurine keeping it's game afloat.
EDIT : And before anyone claims I'm a carebear, you're wrong - because as mentioned above - someone ganked and looted two guys - that someone is me. But I felt bad about it when I read the story. I will spend some time looking for it, give me a bit.
Why not offer more than FFA PVP? I think what the OP is getting at is once Trammell came about that very few players ever went to Felucca to PVP......Also their sub numbers increased considerably when Trammell was introduced.......Maybe all the OP is aksing is that there be other alternatives to the FFA PVP ruleset (ie alternate ruleset servers)........
Im sorry but this player has all the same rights and freedoms you have. Just as you are allowed to like and say "keep it" to the open-pvp full loot system, others also have the exact same rights to say "Keep the game, but full loot and world-wide pvp? would be a great game if..."
Also, he is right. There was a reason felucca became a ghost town- for a reason. That is a fact that cannot be disputed.
There are obviously millions of players who would love Darkfall- for many of its other great features- but minus the forced-PvP.
Be tolerant of other's opinions and you will become a much better person, and your brain will enlarge instead staying a close-minded fool. Realizing others have different opinions, and realizing they aren't wrong, is the first ket to intelligence and getting out of a close-minded ignorant hate-those-who-are-different (exact same as racism) box.
Except for the part where they have 350K people banging on their door to let them play, plus probably double that of which will buy it post release who havent heard of teh game from word of mouth... Yeah, im sure the game will have 5K subs.
150-250k is more than enough to keep the game running, anymore is just surplus. They are not blizzard, they arent in this for 100+millions, they are making a fun game for gamers to enjoy, not to pad there corporate pockets.
I didn't realize that your credit card company will give your money money back if you get pked.
Because UO is doing -SO- good right now, right? Look how great trammel was!
There is alternatives, DIFFERENT GAMES.
Suggestions and opinions are great, but expecting to change CORE FEATURES ? Ignorance. Its like going to tell blizzard to remove raids from WoW because you dont like killing boss's, and would rather just kill world mobs..
Shadowbane has less than 5k people playing it. And its free. The same thing could happen to Darkfall too.
Oh please, you care about Adventurine as much as any other MMO developer. I'm not going to buy that BS.
Here's where your example is destroyed. Ultima Online excelled early on. The only reason for Trammel was because people started leaving for things like.. EQ. Then DAoC. But guess what, they are still making money off of that game to this very day. You must really be out of touch with the gaming community. It's also quite apparent that you don't understand how a game like this works. You mentioned that A couple people worked for two weeks for items and then got ganked and everything was storlen. Well.. that never happened. First of all, you can't carry two weeks of items on you. Secondly.. why would you? Put it in the bank dude. If you have a house, lock it down in a chest. Sell your magical items for money. You're just painting a target on your back if you're running around in magic gear. That would be your fault. People just don't want to put the blame on themselves. It's that kind of mentality that has turned the MMO genre into a carebear infested freakshow. I've read that story BTW, and I laughed. That's like walking down the street in a bad neighborhood and waving around two weeks worth of paychecks.. just idiotic.
People bought generic GM armor and weapons.. reagents for spell casters... they were fairly cheap. They didin't go running around in the most powerful items in the game. It's player-made economy. Not WoW style monster loot economy.
I'm willing to bet this game has enough subscribers to stay going for a little while. When Mortal Online is released.. they will battle for who gets to keep making money. So, I'll compromise that there is probably only room for one hardcore sandbox game in this niche MMO market.
You can always bank items and money in DF so you dont loose it all. Gatering 2 weaks of stuff and loose it to a ganker will not happen.
So, basically you're saying that I should conform to what all the carebears already have? about a handful of solid non-pvp games? But.. I'm not alowed to want ONE single hardcore pvp game that is untainted by crybabies? Screw that.
I didn't realize that your credit card company will give your money money back if you get pked.
Or I can just say I don't know why the charge showed up.
Is this not CC fraud? I am pretty sure if your CC company found out they could prosicute you if they wanted to.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
The REASON Felucca became a ghost town is because most people QUIT the game.
I didn't quit, but I basically stopped playing once Trammel was made (and then quit a few months later). Therefore, your statement only supports the Darkfall concept. People want full pvp (aside from towns) and if you take it away, they'll quit.
Trammel destroyed UO because of the fact that it was carebear.
Some carebears went to trammel, but even therei t was scarce. The handful of PvPers that remained were just waiting for another game to come. Sadly, it never did. All we have left is Darkfall and I'm crossing my fingers it isn't a giant piece of shit.
The op is a confused person. If you dont like full loot then stay away from darkfall. There are already games for you on the market that can cater to your taste.
Those 350k could be wanting to play it for all the wrong reasons also. I'm sure theres quite a few people who think this game is going to play out the way they want it to. Then to find out it's not what they wanted and leave the game. Retention rate is what will make or break Darkfall. And the OP does have a point, full loot PvP is not something alot of people enjoy. You can look at any game that offers both PvP and PvE and see which one has more people per server. And to sit here and think Aventurine does not want to make millions off Darkfall is stupid. Any company wants to make the most out of thier product. Just because Tasos said so, doesn't mean the investors say so. Behind every game company is atleast one greedy investor. The whole, only having a certain people at launch, is only because that is what they can afford. Once they start to gain profit, see a high retention rate after the first month, and see the pre-orders pickup thier copy, you can bet you will see more servers and more dollars in there pocket. You think once they reach a certain point, they are going to say, "No guys, no more cash please, we have enough. We don't want to take your cash. We just wanted a fun game for you to enjoy." Doubtful, very doubtful. Darkfall won't be the second coming of christ. It won't be the next WoW and it will be lucky to survive in a land full of clones. Why, you ask. Because even with all its claimed inovativeness, it still has one set of rules. Full Loot PvP. And people like many choices, not just one.
For all you Darkfall fans who want this game to succeed. I would suggest getting people to see whats great about full loot pvp instead of pushing people out the door. Your only hurting your community by doing this. And to sit here with an elitist attitude and not care about it will only make this game have less subs. Remember, the best marketing is viral marketing. Show them whats great instead of the random, "No one cares, you can leave" posts. And yes it can get redundant, but if you care about this game, It shouldnt matter.
Full loot doesn't work in a game like WoW because the loot you have is priceless.
In UO, there were little (if any) priceless items that people carried on them. When you died, it sucked because you lost your pride and some items, but you could restock fairly easy. That is why full loot worked.
If a person had an average of 30,000 coins in their bank. Then when they died, they lost about 2,000 to 3,000 worth of items - it was not crippling. It stung, but you didn't want to quit the game over it. You just wanted to go back and kill the asshole who killed you - creating an intensely entertaining PvP system.
If you took away full loot, the game would have been boring.
If Aventurine can fill one or more servers, that run on a "none or limited loot" rule set, with players that would otherwise not play the game, then they will do so.
As usual, folks here forget the simple truth. It is business, it is about money. No matter in what colors you want to paint Darkfall and Aventurine for yourself. It is business.
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Nobody is useless, he/she can still be used as a bad example.
Those 350k could be wanting to play it for all the wrong reasons also. I'm sure theres quite a few people who think this game is going to play out the way they want it to. Then to find out it's not what they wanted and leave the game. Retention rate is what will make or break Darkfall. And the OP does have a point, full loot PvP is not something alot of people enjoy. You can look at any game that offers both PvP and PvE and see which one has more people per server. And to sit here and think Aventurine does not want to make millions off Darkfall is stupid. Any company wants to make the most out of thier product. Just because Tasos said so, doesn't mean the investors say so. Behind every game company is atleast one greedy investor. The whole, only having a certain people at launch, is only because that is what they can afford. Once they start to gain profit, see a high retention rate after the first month, and see the pre-orders pickup thier copy, you can bet you will see more servers and more dollars in there pocket. You think once they reach a certain point, they are going to say, "No guys, no more cash please, we have enough. We don't want to take your cash. We just wanted a fun game for you to enjoy." Doubtful, very doubtful. Darkfall won't be the second coming of christ. It won't be the next WoW and it will be lucky to survive in a land full of clones. Why, you ask. Because even with all its claimed inovativeness, it still has one set of rules. Full Loot PvP. And people like many choices, not just one.
For all you Darkfall fans who want this game to succeed. I would suggest getting people to see whats great about full loot pvp instead of pushing people out the door. Your only hurting your community by doing this. And to sit here with an elitist attitude and not care about it will only make this game have less subs. Remember, the best marketing is viral marketing. Show them whats great instead of the random, "No one cares, you can leave" posts. And yes it can get redundant, but if you care about this game, It shouldnt matter.
How are we hurting our community? We know what we want already. We know that there are a lot of people out there who will love it as well. And ultimately.. some that done. How is that any different from any game?
I'm sure you'll get your one or two PvE servers. That's usually how it works. But to say that they are more populated is downright insane.. especially that in most games.. there are only like.. 5% of the servers that do PVE only.
If you don't like the game, then go play something else.. you have plenty to choose from.
Some did some didn't. Trammel killed UO not because it was carebear it killed it because carebears didn't want to play on felluca. They bwould have left UO for greener pastures anyway if there had been no Trammel. Darkfall will see a lot of that and those people will leave. Then it may have the same problem that plauged Felucca and Shadowbane. Big empty world syndrome. It's a very real issue with open PvP games. We'll just have to see how big the market is forfukll loot open PvP.
With the amount of new players that WoW has brought in over the years.. It would be very difficult for anyone to say that a game like this couldn't survive. Maybe not Darkfall.. maybe Mortal Online.. or maybe something else. The market is so much bigger than it use to be when UO and SB were out there.
I'll respect other player's opinions when they respect the developer's. Obviously, that is not the case here.
You want a server ruleset with non-forced PVP. The developers do not. The only option right now is a simple request to implement this ruleset on a seperate server (which if you look at all the past mmos... it will probably happen eventually). The problem I see with the OP and others posting on this thread is that they seem to think they are right and the developers are wrong. Seriously, who the fuck are you to decide what is right and what is wrong in someone else's eyes?
If you haven't already noticed I am all for open pvp with full loot. It's definately for a small minority of gamers but that does not make it wrong or a bad decision. Pre Trammel UO players learned how to govern their servers through the community. There were of course many evil people that were hell bent on making other player's gaming experience as horrible as possible.... You will find this EVERYWHERE... from games, work, and anything else that requires social interaction. Gear was never the most important thing a character had... individual player skill and friends were always the most influential aspects of having a fun play experience or not. If you were born into the solo friendly mmos we have been seeing lately, you may have a very hard and long road ahead of you to adapt to such a playstyle. I for one hate being spoon fed... I want a challenge... I want to be ganked... I want to have enemies. These will only make me want to strive to create long lasting friendship and learn all I can about the game.
Some did some didn't. Trammel killed Felucca not because it was carebear it killed it because carebears didn't want to play on felluca. They would have left UO for greener pastures anyway if there had been no Trammel. Darkfall will see a lot of that and those people will leave. Then it may have the same problem that plauged Felucca and Shadowbane. Big empty world syndrome. It's a very real issue with open PvP games. We'll just have to see how big the market is for full loot open PvP.
Shadowbane was a bad game, period.
The point is, if someone made a quality PvP oriented game,it would do fine. Whether Darkfall is one, is highly debatable, but to say that a PvP based game with full loot can never be successful is wrong.
Those 350k could be wanting to play it for all the wrong reasons also. I'm sure theres quite a few people who think this game is going to play out the way they want it to. Then to find out it's not what they wanted and leave the game. Retention rate is what will make or break Darkfall. And the OP does have a point, full loot PvP is not something alot of people enjoy. You can look at any game that offers both PvP and PvE and see which one has more people per server. And to sit here and think Aventurine does not want to make millions off Darkfall is stupid. Any company wants to make the most out of thier product. Just because Tasos said so, doesn't mean the investors say so. Behind every game company is atleast one greedy investor. THe whole only having a certain people at launch is only because that is what they can afford. Once they start to gain profit, see a high retention rate after the first month, and see the pre-orders pickup there copy, you can bet you will see more servers and more dollars in there pocket. You think once they reach a certain point, they are going to say, "No guys, no more cash please, we have enough. We don't want to take your cash. We just wanted a fun game for you to enjoy." Doubtful, very doubtful. Darkfall won't be the second coming of christ. It won't be the next WoW and it will be lucky to survive in a land full of clones. Why, you ask. Because even with all its claimed inovativeness, it still ahs one set of rules. Full Loot PvP. And people like many choices, not just one.
For all you Darkfall fans who want this game to succeed. I would suggest getting people to see whats great about full loot pvp instead of pushing people out the door. Your only hurting your community by doing this. And to sit here with an elitist attitude and not care about it will only make this game have less subs. Remember, the best marketing is viral marketing. Show them whats great instead of the random, "No one cares, you can leave" posts. And yes it can get redundant, but if you care about this game, It shouldnt matter.
Aye, its best to be open and informative to anyone thinking about getting this game rather than acting like the rofltards on the official forums. Pointing out the meaning of Full Loot pvp etc in a way that doesnt include "No 1 wants ur carebear ass here" isnt going to help the game any.
Look at almost every heavy PvP MMO to date. The 'Hardcore' rabid pvpers pretty much chase away new players not from pvp but from the attitude they give when someone asks a simple question. Now look at how strong those games held up in comparison to thier non pvp counterparts. Soon devs start making changes to attract new players which almost always involves PvP being toned down or fully negated (Trammel/Felucca in UO ring a bell?)
As players you are the best advertisement for the game. You can either make new players aware of the situation and help them make the decision, or you can do what most do and run a smear campaign against thier own game and wonder why the servers are barren or the game goes F2P.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"