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Seriously, What's the point?
Dakekarr
Member Posts: 44
Ok, I am not trying to troll, nor am I anything of a fanboi. But when comparing DDO and LOTRO, is it just me or does DDO not feel like the beta of LOTRO? It's obvious Turbine used the DDO engine as a template for LOTRO, and I started the DDO trial but after a little bit of playing, it just seemed like LOTRO lacking the Tolkien charm and more leeway with the classes (pure casters being available).
Don't get me wrong, I am truly not trying to bash DDO, I just simply want to know if anyone can give me reason to continue the trial if I am already playing LOTRO and they seem so alike. I appreciate the coherent input. 
- Walddo
Playing: TESO
Played (Trials mostly): WoW, UO, EQ 1 & 2, DAOC, Final Fantasy XI, EVE, COV, Aion, Rift, Star Trek Online, GW 2, TSW, Final Fantasy ARR, Tera
Waiting on:EQ Next
Comments
First question is, have you ever played paper and pencil dnd? Second question is, have you grouped and dungeon crawled yet?
To me the charm of ddo is the char customization and the dungeon crawling. There are so many different ways to play each class that there is no wrong way to play. Well if your trying to melee and your a arcane caster you might want to reconsider your char selection lol.
The dungeon crawling is awesome. I just recently came back so I really am crawling again and I have to say its a blast. It'll get even better when I have to have a rogue on the team. I like how you have to think your way through dungeons. Before I teamed back up I ran around with my WF pally and remebered just how important going slow was. I was playing GW before and it seemed the faster you went the safer you were in a lot of cases.
Is it worth finishing the trial? Yes! It might feel a lot like lotro but the story and char development is different and worth a real chance.
PS. Feather falling off large objects is awesome. There's just something about jumping and gliding that is tickling to me.
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
No and No.
The paper and pencil dnd was a little before my time, (when I was in my teens I was in marvel of the original UO and EQ1). And no I didn't dungeon crawl, I appreciate your input though. I'll have to fire up my necromancer tonight and see if I can progress at all. Not sure if its for me though...
Playing: TESO
Played (Trials mostly): WoW, UO, EQ 1 & 2, DAOC, Final Fantasy XI, EVE, COV, Aion, Rift, Star Trek Online, GW 2, TSW, Final Fantasy ARR, Tera
Waiting on:EQ Next
Before your time... Dude I'm only 28!!! I can't be that much older than you lol. Although my wife (24) does love to call me her old man :P
OT: Your answers do explain a lot though. I've been playing pnp since I was 15 or 16 so I was amped when the game came out.
Since the pnp thing didn't draw you give the unique combat and dungeon crawling a chance. You maybe pleasently surprised or like you said it might not be for you. I personally like ddo better than lotro but I also had to leave ddo for awhile because it couldn't hold my attention anymore. I guess being a Founder had it's disadvantages since I ran through the content to fast.
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
No and No.
The paper and pencil dnd was a little before my time, (when I was in my teens I was in marvel of the original UO and EQ1). And no I didn't dungeon crawl, I appreciate your input though. I'll have to fire up my necromancer tonight and see if I can progress at all. Not sure if its for me though...
Well, to be honest, the ddo engine is not a template for lotro so much as the engine that Turbine developed to use for their games. It's not practice, it just makes more sense for them to develope their own engine.
And the ddo dungeon crawls can be very fun. That's what it's about. I do have some issues with how they do it but over all, finding secret doors and solving puzzles and dismantling traps is something that I think is missing from games like LOTRO.
I do have other issues with ddo but it's a very good game if you take it in the spirit for what it is.
Dungeon Crawls, secrets, traps, etc.
Have fun!
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Hahaha, naw man you only got a few years on me, but when I think of the true-hardcore dedicated pnp players I think back to the 70's and 80's when IT WAS the way to roleplay, definitely no online venues to get screamed at by 12 year olds,
...you guys both convinced me....i'll fire it up and see if I can maybe get to a high enough level where i'll do an actual dungeon crawl....
Playing: TESO
Played (Trials mostly): WoW, UO, EQ 1 & 2, DAOC, Final Fantasy XI, EVE, COV, Aion, Rift, Star Trek Online, GW 2, TSW, Final Fantasy ARR, Tera
Waiting on:EQ Next
The simple answer is no, they are like chalk and cheese, how long did you play for?
A reasonable play should allow you to notice the difference between twitch and pick and click combat, or see the potential complexity of the dungeons, the group focus or the wealth of options in character build.
In fact the only thing I can think they do share is elements of the graphics engine.
I have been playing DDO since beta, I managed a few days of LOTRO it was a very nice game, but it was a very mainstream product and not for me. DDO tried to be different, LOTRO was a large step back towards the accepted norm, we have had since WoW.
I played the trial for both games back to back. The two games couldn't be more different in how you play them.
For most of the game mechanics in LotRO, Turbine took the safe route and copied WoW. The 'stand and deliver' combat system (*yawn*), the AI, crafting, etc. Part of the draw for LotRO is that so many people are already familiar with the game mechanics. DDO tries to be unique in nearly every regard.
In LotRO I'd spend nearly 1/3 of my time simply traveling to get to my quest objectives or heading to the next town. I wouldn't even call it exploring since I typically knew where I was going. I spend an insignificant amount of time travelling in DDO.
The story in LotRO is more about the larger world events happening around you. In DDO it is a more personal experience about what is happening to you and your party right now.
Personally, I found LotRO to be very boring to play. The mechanics were shallow, and I spent too much time on the busy-work like travel and resource collecting. There was plenty to like in DDO, but after playing City of Villains for 5 months and Tabula Rasa for 5 months, I have little patience with busy-work time sinks.
I brought my four best friends with me and I never imagined I'd have this much fun.
In 1 minute you could google out that the engine that uses DDo and Lotro is the same as the one in Asheron's call 2, so DDo is not some kind of a testing ground.
DDO and Lotro are two completely different games. While Lotro is going the AC2 / EQ1 way in terms of UI, gameplay, mechanics, DDo is a different story that focuses heavily on grouping and fast-paced action with little or no traveling.
REALITY CHECK
I played DDO on release and found the combat to be unwieldy, confusing and unsatisfying. I applaud them for trying something different, but unfortunately in an industry when people seem to be conditioned to the WoW standard, introducing such a wildly different mechanic can make or break your enjoyment. Sadly for me I found it not to my liking.
I actually like DDO a lot, so everytime I see a thread pop-up from this forum on the 5 most current threads list, I see what's happening.
I play LoTRO right now, but I've also played DDO till about lvl 12 or so. DDO is an awesome game that's a victim of not being mainstream. What I mean is that in DDO, everything you do is with a group, which is great, but there are many quests that the vet DDO players refuse to do, because they either don't offer enough xp or loot, or because the dungeon is very difficult.
I last played DDO when the Monk came out. When I couldn't find groups for the dungeons I wanted to run, I quit. All I wanted was to experience every quest in the game. All it seemed that the regular community wanted was to stick to the tried and true quests, grind them out 3 times, and then move on to the next ones. Basically, they figured out the quickest way to level and which dungeon has the best loot, and stuck to those dungeons.
I'm not saying tht the community was rude or immature, because they weren't, they just didn't like to do every dungeon, and for me that's a HUGE con, since I was playing DDO for the content. I haven't given up on DDO and will probably play it again every time they introduce a new class, because the game always gets a boon in the population when that happens and it makes getting groups for quests that much easier.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
I see how the combat could make you feel that way. If it wasn't one of my first major titles I probably would've felt the same way. I have to say that I love that I have to chase down my target and jump attack them.
PS. Love the sig lol
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
I played DDO on release and found the combat to be unwieldy, confusing and unsatisfying. I applaud them for trying something different, but unfortunately in an industry when people seem to be conditioned to the WoW standard, introducing such a wildly different mechanic can make or break your enjoyment. Sadly for me I found it not to my liking.
Agreed, that's the risk of being 'different'. Some people just won't get-it or they won't feel like investing enough mental energy into the game to do what it takes to get comfortable with it. Those are the people that fall back on tried and true mechanics that are comfortable like the EQ/WoW/LotRO/WAR standard.
I was tired of those mechanics after one year of EQ, but I tolerated them for another 3 years in WoW. I am hoping that some day a developer will make a game that is compelling enough to break that mold for the masses and I can return to mainstream MMOG's.
Unfortunately it looks like each new generation of MMOG's tries to have more mass appeal and dumbs down their systems more and more. Looking over the class abilities for Aion (as an example) I noticed that there isn't even a lockpick for the assasin and stealth is a 30 second buff.
I can only hope that niche games like DDO continue to exist for those of us that want a fast paced game with loads of tactical depth. I can only think of a few... AC, CoX, TR, and the upcoming TCoS. They all tried to be different and they all had very limited success. DDO not only has the fast tactical combat, but also has the added joy of puzzles, traps, secrets, and complex character development. If they would add in a few shared zones with public quests and maybe an equally complex collectible mini-game for the taverns...
This has always been one of my biggest complaints with ddo. I started back in closed beta and all that jazz and that was one of my biggest issues.
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
I have played both extensively ( a year and several months minimum, each. I played LOTRO through all of beta). The combat in DDO is far superior. The world design in LOTRO is better but DDO has much more thought out quests. However, they are instances. At the end of they day, they are two completely different approaches to an MMO.
So, no, DDO does not feel like a LOTRO beta or anything. It feels like it's own thing. Have you not noticed in LOTRO you're rooted in place with almost all attacks? You can press a button, go make coffee, and your guy does the swings like a robot. DDO has more twitch type combat with fifty times the class customization.
I like DDO's quest design but I wish they had some big open, non-instanced areas where you can interact with other people/ see other people running around in a combat zone.
I like them both. They're just different. Each have their own sets of pros and cons.
My dream MMO would be to combine LOTRO's approach to world building with DDO's combat and character design.
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Exactly! Just make sure to keep all of DDO's secrets, traps, and puzzles. Turbine has an unannounced MMO in development. We can hope they aren't trying to make another mainstream WoW clone. ACIII with a huge open world and hundreds of badass DDO-style dungeons with a fast paced tactical combat. Who cares about the IP as long as its a good game?
If you've played both DDO and Lord of the Rings Online and are unable to identify the difference in game mechanics within the first 5 minutes then there's no reason why anyone should make any effort to help you choose. It's like playing Chess and Checkers then asking why bother playing Chess when Checkers also uses a checkered board with game pieces.
I might be mistaken - Turbine uses Turbine Engine 2.0 for DDO and I've heard that it's TE2.5 for LotRO. DDO recieved an update about a year ago and I suspect it might have been moved to TE2.5, but I am making an assumption.
The funny thing is when I played Lord of the Rings Online it felt like a generic MMO with static game play elements. I've grown found of DDO's tactile nature of game play and immensily diverse and dynamic character creation development process.
I thought DDO was produced badly and suffered a poor launch because of it. Thankfully there's been many improvements since then that have allowed the game to grow into the state it should have been when it launched 3 years ago.
Bottom line - there's little similarity between the two outside of the same development studio. If you're sincerly interested I would highly recomend continuing the trial and make your decision from there. The differences in game play and mechanics are so vast that they should be obvious by the time you complete your first dungeon experiance.
I played DDO on release and found the combat to be unwieldy, confusing and unsatisfying. I applaud them for trying something different, but unfortunately in an industry when people seem to be conditioned to the WoW standard, introducing such a wildly different mechanic can make or break your enjoyment. Sadly for me I found it not to my liking.
Hey Zayne, I also thought it sucked when it launced. I came back to DDO about a year after it's launch and the additional improvements to the mechanics and content made things feel much better. The combat is very twitch based which establishes a heavily tactile feel to the game play.
Check out a trial and see how the overall system's mechanics have improved.
If you've played both DDO and Lord of the Rings Online and are unable to identify the difference in game mechanics within the first 5 minutes then there's no reason why anyone should make any effort to help you choose. It's like playing Chess and Checkers then asking why bother playing Chess when Checkers also uses a checkered board with game pieces.
I might be mistaken - Turbine uses Turbine Engine 2.0 for DDO and I've heard that it's TE2.5 for LotRO. DDO recieved an update about a year ago and I suspect it might have been moved to TE2.5, but I am making an assumption.
The funny thing is when I played Lord of the Rings Online it felt like a generic MMO with static game play elements. I've grown found of DDO's tactile nature of game play and immensily diverse and dynamic character creation development process.
I thought DDO was produced badly and suffered a poor launch because of it. Thankfully there's been many improvements since then that have allowed the game to grow into the state it should have been when it launched 3 years ago.
Bottom line - there's little similarity between the two outside of the same development studio. If you're sincerly interested I would highly recomend continuing the trial and make your decision from there. The differences in game play and mechanics are so vast that they should be obvious by the time you complete your first dungeon experiance.
Wow, to be honest, judging from your first sentence I thought your post was going to be pretty hostile. Turns out it wasn't and was very insightful
, I appreciate that and thanks for you input! I'll certainly continue the trial and try and get beyond the training area of the game.
Playing: TESO
Played (Trials mostly): WoW, UO, EQ 1 & 2, DAOC, Final Fantasy XI, EVE, COV, Aion, Rift, Star Trek Online, GW 2, TSW, Final Fantasy ARR, Tera
Waiting on:EQ Next
The only thing that would be consdidered right is that the engine is the same in LOTRO (upgraded version) as DDO..
DDO is something VERY unique in the MMO scene, you will NOT find any game that comes even close to what DDO has to offer today, and NO it's nothing like Guild Wars even thou it's also based heavy on instancing...
I will not try to discribe what is diffrent in this game compared to the rest, but it's a very tough game and If you are looking for a REAL challenge you come to the right place, but if you are looking for gameplay like WoW LOTRO is your game...
Just as a clarification, LOTRO IMO is also a good game but not in the same way as DDO is, depends what you are looking for..:)
/junker
/junker
If you've played both DDO and Lord of the Rings Online and are unable to identify the difference in game mechanics within the first 5 minutes then there's no reason why anyone should make any effort to help you choose. It's like playing Chess and Checkers then asking why bother playing Chess when Checkers also uses a checkered board with game pieces.
I might be mistaken - Turbine uses Turbine Engine 2.0 for DDO and I've heard that it's TE2.5 for LotRO. DDO recieved an update about a year ago and I suspect it might have been moved to TE2.5, but I am making an assumption.
The funny thing is when I played Lord of the Rings Online it felt like a generic MMO with static game play elements. I've grown found of DDO's tactile nature of game play and immensily diverse and dynamic character creation development process.
I thought DDO was produced badly and suffered a poor launch because of it. Thankfully there's been many improvements since then that have allowed the game to grow into the state it should have been when it launched 3 years ago.
Bottom line - there's little similarity between the two outside of the same development studio. If you're sincerly interested I would highly recomend continuing the trial and make your decision from there. The differences in game play and mechanics are so vast that they should be obvious by the time you complete your first dungeon experiance.
Wow, to be honest, judging from your first sentence I thought your post was going to be pretty hostile. Turns out it wasn't and was very insightful
, I appreciate that and thanks for you input! I'll certainly continue the trial and try and get beyond the training area of the game.
Depending on the class and if you chose one of the Templates or not the game can feel simple upon its initila presentation. I suppose this was the intent to allow players to not be blind sided by vast and mysterious statistics which funtioned differently then a new player would assume. If you can make it to level 3-4 (should be easy in two weeks) you should start noticing more dynamics and once you hit 6th it would be difficult to ignore it.
You can reset the character's enhancements every three days which allows us to redefine our play style by chosen enhancements which support deisred function.. I think it's a must to reset them every couple of evels and I continue to do it every few weeks with my lvl 16 Sorcerer. Feats can also be exchanged, for a propr fee, if you feel something would have been better suited after you've made a choice upon leveling. Equipment is a primary focus of the game and some players spend excessive amounts of time hunting a single item to compliment builds.
Are you using Voice Chat and grouping with others? (I highly recomend it for DDO)
Bah! To each his own. I love DDO's combat. The fact that Age of Conan sold so many copies before people realized it was an unfinished product should tell you that there are about a million people out there who are looking for a little more twitch (and even "confusion") in their MMO gameplay.
What keeps DDO from being mainstream is its quest system, which suffers, in my view, from too much of a good thing. My first month playing DDO I was so impressed with the depth of the quests I couldn't believe the game wasn't more popular. By my third month, having done some of the same quests for the tenth or twentieth time (some of which take well over an hour to complete), I found myself longing to deliver a package for an NPC and kill ten rats along the way.
Totally recognise that feeling. I started taking breaks to try other MMOs, but killing rats, delivering parcels, and repeatedly clicking attack types in a bar was never going to be enough. So now I take breaks and play single player games until the DDO addiction gets too hard to resist.
I would like if DDO opened up the explorer areas in to open zones and added low level questing, like other MMOs just for the variety. A lot of DDO people see this as eating in to the proper quest production, but seeing how they can chuck out explorer areas with little effort then I see no reason why a bit of standard MMO junk questing couldn't be introduced.
I would prefer if they made design tools available for players so they can build their own quests and submit for inclusion (to maintain quality and consistency). If they did this I think it would move DDO from a niche game to a MMO community project and that could really have a big impact on the future of MMOs.
Totally recognise that feeling. I started taking breaks to try other MMOs, but killing rats, delivering parcels, and repeatedly clicking attack types in a bar was never going to be enough. So now I take breaks and play single player games until the DDO addiction gets too hard to resist.
I would like if DDO opened up the explorer areas in to open zones and added low level questing, like other MMOs just for the variety. A lot of DDO people see this as eating in to the proper quest production, but seeing how they can chuck out explorer areas with little effort then I see no reason why a bit of standard MMO junk questing couldn't be introduced.
I would prefer if they made design tools available for players so they can build their own quests and submit for inclusion (to maintain quality and consistency). If they did this I think it would move DDO from a niche game to a MMO community project and that could really have a big impact on the future of MMOs.
Yeah, you and I are the same in this. When I cancelled my DDO subscription a couple of months ago, I loaded up Guild Wars to ween myself off. I know a lot of people love that game, but I was never super into it. . . . but I'd already bought it, so it was free to play. I had it uninstalled within the hour. After a few months of DDO, the combat was just too dull, the quests too uninspiring.
It's true that people on the official forums are constantly whining that development time spent on one thing "eats" into the time that might have been spent on another. I actually see it as a sign of a mature playerbase, who recognize that it's a small team working on a niche game. Personally, I wish they had spent the last couple of modules making lots of short quests, rather than a handful of long ones. My first time doing Monastery of the Scorpion it took us about three hours. Not causal friendly.
It would be an interesting, and risky, move to give the playerbase tools to create content. But Dungeon's & Dragons is certainly the one IP where that sort of thing makes sense. D&D is supposed to be about the creativity of its players.
I agree with that. DDO is a awesome game. The only thing that I do not like about it is the exploration of the outdoor zones and the character creation (face, body, etc). But other than that, it is a great game. But I am too hardcore to play it long. I will be back when the druids, Half-Elf and Half-Orcs come into the game.
I would like if DDO opened up the explorer areas in to open zones and added low level questing, like other MMOs just for the variety. A lot of DDO people see this as eating in to the proper quest production, but seeing how they can chuck out explorer areas with little effort then I see no reason why a bit of standard MMO junk questing couldn't be introduced.
I would prefer if they made design tools available for players so they can build their own quests and submit for inclusion (to maintain quality and consistency). If they did this I think it would move DDO from a niche game to a MMO community project and that could really have a big impact on the future of MMOs.
Exactly Dr. Rock
Also, if Turbine opened explorable areas as public instances... or expanded it with engine like they created for LotrO - we could have vast and mysterious world
.
Just imagine: you could solo there, you could create groups, PVP... etc. Groups meeting groups, lone players grouping with met people to pass through that dangerous passage...
And add that to existing dungeon-runs. For me, that's the only thing this game really needs, other thinks are just tweaks that of course should be done (real crafting in addition to "rituals", etc.).
And right, more character-look customization. The game looks like it was lacking polish because of that, while that's generally untrue in some, if not most of the places.
Creating open, vast wilderness areas could make DDO as big player as any other big title. Maybe even bigger than LotrO. In my humble opinion.
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