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PnC vs WASD movement
hercules
Member UncommonPosts: 4,925
Some say PnC saves bandwidth and honestly it does but when you look at so many mmorpg able to use WASD with no problems .
Yes even big seiges have games that use WASD like DAoC which is 3 years old.
The most intense graphics mmorpg like SWG and newer ones use WASD.
However many mmorpg still make use of PnC .In the last year or so we had L2 and shadowbane.Wish that will not come out till 2005 uses it.
So is there really a real advantage to PnC or are this developers been lazy/can't code properly.
Then you have some that say they do like PnC over WASD.
So the poll is for your choice of preference .feel free to comment on the merits or cons of PnC.
Comments
I agree with Regal_TR
I like them both...
With WASD movement, you are usually in the first person mode or third person over the shoulder. Give you a better feeling of being there. And allows to you to move while clicking on objects/targets/players.
But a nice feature of PnC is that usually the camera can be disjointed and you can zoom out and turn the camera easier. Giving you greater control to select monsters to cast spells at, see what's going on around you, etc.
But if you reverse these requirements, then it sucks. What I mean is, if you are stuck in first person or over the shoulder view, then PnC sucks. And, if the camera is disjopinted and you have free control over it, then WASD sucks.
My preference is disjointed camera and point and click. It lets you control your character, but still click around the battlefield and see what's going on a little bit better in my opinion.
It is even better if you can give your character a target to attack, but then still click on other monsters/players to check their status without changing your character's target. Most games do not allow this and it gets very irritating trying to see what exactly is going on around you.
No difference to me, just a matter of getting use to which game uses what.
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Agreed you lose the reality in PnC.
I remember some areas in EQlive when you have to actually watch your step or jump over something to get to point A to B.Adding to the danger and excitement.
With PnC u target the other side and there he goes and you can go for a smoke.
I love point and click.
Is easier to move (IMO), and will usually result in less lag.
EDIT: You still have to "jump" over stuff when using PnC. It doesn't do it for you, just instead of pointing in a direction and hitting the auto-run button, you just click exactly where you want to go. Your character won't "jump" over anything by itself using PnC(at least not in games I've played).
When using PnC your character won't run around things either(unless you do that while auto-running/holding in "W", too).
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
Beta tested: EQ2, WoW, L2, SoR
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
Does it really matter, most games coming out have both anyways.
I prefer both equally. I especially like it when the game has both, so when I need to chat, I'll just click on the spot i'm moving to, and type, and when i'm not typing, I use WASD.
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Personally after playing Shadowbane and the Lineage 2 beta, I greatly prefer Point and Click over WASD movement. Allows for more camera control, and I honestly just simply enjoy the feel of it. I don't like having my hand on the keyboard all the time when playiiing and like sitting back and just using the mouse to control things at times. I really wish more games would use this or at least provide an option for this.
I've noticed that while playing Shadowbane, even though I didn't spend much time with it, I loved how the world looked grahpic wise and what you could do in it. Don't think PnC has an impact on this but then again maybe it does and frees up resources. What do you think?
I prefer WASD, so i can use the mouse to pan the camera around. I don't like talking to people I'm killing anyway.
The alleged fact that point and click saves a significant amount of bandwidth is completely false. MMO implementations of WASD movement are far less precise as FPS style games, and they take far less bandwidth to accomplish.
WASD clients periodically send X/Y and vector information to sync player mouse/keyboard actions to the server. This data can be interpolated on the server end to reduce the bandwidth required. Unlike P&C, this method actually balances the in/out bandwidth - your client sends player coordinates to the server, and the server sends world object coordinates (mobs, other players, etc) to your client
Point and Click is the exact same thing in reverse. People seem to think that P&C works by calculating a vector to the destination coordinates, and you just run from point A to B using little or no bandwidth. But rather than the client sending the coordinates and heading to the server, the server is sending coordinates to the client. So with P&C, this actually INCREASES the size/number packets sent from the server to your client.
There is still constant communication between your client and the server either way. But with P&C, the communication is asymmetrical. And since bandwidth is purchased in bulk by the gigabit in BOTH directions, the more symmetric the bandwidth utilization the better.
Now, I personally prefer WASD. But it should be up to the player. Not implementing both systems might cause some players to dislike a particular game - which hurts their bottom line most of all.
-pooka
Particularly as it applies to PvP-centric games. I love how WP said they were going with a PnC movement system to help cut down on lag. If that cut down on lag, I'd hate to see what happened if'n they'd gone with WASD movement. Not to mention how much of a pain in the ass it is to move your character, and control the camera with a pnC movement system, as oppposed to WASD movement, and mouselook.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I feel like i get more from my game if I use the WASD style. I like being able to move with my left hand and manipulate the GUI with the mouseover. It feel s right to me and I change all my games to that configuration when it wil let me. I think its lame that some games dont give you both options. I have refused to play certain games simply for that reason.
I do not like point and click movement period.
ROLEPLAYERS UNITE!!!!
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Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
I will not use it on a train
I will not use it on a plane
I would not use it with a fox
I would not use it in a box
I will not use point and click, Sam I am.
As a derail, Johnny Depp will be playing Willy Wonka in Tim Burtons remake of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
Discuss.
I'm happy to use either but I much prefer point and click. I find it gives a much better story telling feel to the game. I find first person view very FPS like and it spoils my immersion. There are occasions when I prefer one over the other and I think most games should offer both.
Magpie
There are only 10 types of programmers. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
There are only 10 types of programmers. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
Games using only point and click are not able to take full advantage of the 3-D environment. You can not point and click your way while swimming underwater or flying overhead.
Still the point and click movement over the ground is an easy way to move and it leaves your hands free to type in the chat. I agree with Magpie, the best games (like Dark and Light) will have both.
Here my stance on it....if i have to use my mouse i DO NOT want to have to rely on keyboard command and vica versa
mouse + keyboard = teh suck
I've heard this complaint so many times and I honestly don't understand why anyone ever says it. I'm scratching my head trying to think of an MMORPG that I've played that "doesn't" have a first person option. I know for sure the following ones do:
AC1, AC2, SWG, ShadowBane, EverQuest, City of Heroes, DAoC, AO, Lineage 2, Neocron, Planetside, Freeworld.
I'm sure many more do as well. So what's the big complaint? If you want first person then just set your interface to first person.
What will he do next?
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
i dont care either way as long as the game is good...
PnC allows easier camera movements and allows 1 handed play (which is great if you're like me and enjoy talking on the phone, eating/drinking, and such while playing)... also works well for hotkeys...
WASD is a little bit better in the handling department but you have to constantly have your hand on the keyboard and mouse to do anything... also it can get awkward at some times (if not 100% correctly implemented) and usually requires a very client side based system to keep the lag out...
bassically PnC = simple, WASD = greater controll... either way, you win something, you lose something...
they both have their ups and downs... either way, as long as its implemented correctly and the game works well with it, i could care less...
i just hate when i see these people saying "i wont play a game if its PnC" and such...
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Games Played - Lineage, Lineage 2, Helbreath, RuneScape, EVE Online, Rubies of Eventide, Priston Tale, Tibia, RYL, Dark Eden, Savage Eden, Astonia III, Ashen Empires, El Kardian, Fung Wan Online, Project Entropia, Ultima Online, Ragnarok Online, Redmoon, Star Wars Galaxies, Thesa, Conquer Online, Deloria, Fairyland, MU Online, Legends...
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Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Unless the devs are doing something very strange with their game both will require the same amount of bandwith. In an MMO or any online game the server doesn't keep track of you every second of the game. Instead all movement and calculations are done client side and then they send coords with your char's location to the server. That is why during spikes you may rubber band. What is happening is the packets don't get sent properly and then when the server and client are back in sync your character relocates to the last known location server side. PnC is purely a design choice.
I personally prefer WASD with num-pad camera keys AC1 style. I can still use hotkeys just fine even when using WASD and I don't like to have to move my hands back and forth from keyboard to mouse. My overall preference is keyboard only with mouse for UI stuff and that is it.
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