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You can't re-write history
octa
Member UncommonPosts: 245
I've been seeing a gradual shift by the mouthpieces at Funcom in the last couple of months.
Interviews with the game director, statements on the official forums, responses by their most ardent fans. The general theme in all of them, "Mistakes were made but we're moving forward and learning from them."
Normally such a hollow line of deflection wouldn't bother me, except for one glaring fact: they've done this before. They've launched a game in a terrible state and abused their subscribers. Everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong with Anarchy Online. Yet no one at Funcom will make the comparison other than server stability. Not mentioned once post release, though parroted by almost every spokesman from the company pre-release, is the vaunted experience and knowledge gained from those terrible events more than 7 years ago.
- Launch features that weren't there at launch
- A graphic engine in desperate need of optimization
- Little communication from the developers
- A buggy mess of a game
- Terrible patching schedule that served to break the game more than it helped
- Timelines that were ludicrous - blatant lies that could never be accomplished
- A buggy billing system
- Corrupt and laughable GMs
Through all of this, Funcom maintained their hubris. A perfect launch. Steak, not burgers. Unimportant features. Look, an expansion!
It's easy to look back and say mistakes were made. The true test of a company is how they handle the pressure as it happens. I can only state, in my opinion, that they failed that test in every way. Moving forward is an admirable statement, but without specific acknowledgement of their past mistakes how are we to hold them accountable for anything in the future? Let's not forget what we went through for this company. Let's not forget their deceit.
Twice. They've done it twice. I will never forget. I will never forgive.
Comments
You know who was Game Director when Anarchy Online launched right?
You know who replaced him later on and brought Anarchy Online around?
You know who was the Game Director when Age of Conan launched right?
You know who replaced him later on and now tries to bring Age of Conan around?
You know that dissaster person of a Game Director parted the company?
Need to say more?
Cheers
Sure you can rewrite history. The Soviet Union did that so often that dissidents had a joke that in the Soviet Union, the future was known, but it was the past that was always changing.
What was the person that, after launch, said that he never considered PVP a major system of the game and therefore wasn't disappointed that it wasn't in at launch?
Who was the person that said Dx10 was pulled at the last second and after the the box was printed? yet here we are almost a year later and still Dx10 is not in the live game? If Dx10 was so close to being 'ready' that it was on the box, then why is it still not in the game?
Who is the person, that in an interview given last week still brags about the 'great launch'?
I agree with you about the new director.. but the deciet at Funcom was not all the old director
What was the person that, after launch, said that he never considered PVP a major system of the game and therefore wasn't disappointed that it wasn't in at launch?
Who was the person that said Dx10 was pulled at the last second and after the the box was printed? yet here we are almost a year later and still Dx10 is not in the live game? If Dx10 was so close to being 'ready' that it was on the box, then why is it still not in the game?
Who is the person, that in an interview given last week still brags about the 'great launch'?
I agree with you about the new director.. but the deciet at Funcom was not all the old director
Erling E. only did was he was told to do. He is nothing more then a PR marionet.
That he lives in a fantasy world and hasn't really good ties with reality is a different matter.
Gaute G. was the sole reason the game bombed hard. Just like Anarchy Online bombed hard at launch as well.
I agree that it would have been better for Funcom to get rid of Erling E. as well. It would have helped restore their image better.
But nonetheless, every sane person knows Erling E. is nothing but a PR marionet.
Every company has them. Or do you say that EA Mythic with Mark Jacobs and co. has never blown things out of proportion with their WAR?? I beg to differ.
What it comes down to is that Gaute G. was unfit for the job as Game Director. The misserable failure of the AO launch should have been a big hint to him already.
But the problem is, that Gaute G. was the co-founder of Funcom. So if he doesn't see his failures himself, then it's hard to get rid of him.
Luckily in September he finally saw the light, woke up from his fairytale and parted the company.
So from now on it can only get better. As Craig is much more qualified as Game Director, is a lot more realistic and more important: He is not lying!
Cheers
Exactly. This only proves that OP is right when saying Funcom doesn't learn from past mistakes. Fool me once, shame on you. GG fooled them twice.
I agree completely. They should have gotten rid of EE also, or at least put him on a leash and not let him do interviews any more. The new director comes across as much more in touch with reality and more likely to make the game better.
EE needs to go just because he infuriates people. Look at his latest interview. The first thing out of his mouth was " the launch was amazing". If there are any 'on the fence' people thinking about returning and giving AOC another try.. that comment alone is likely to drive them away because it reminds them of May and June when Funcom was still in denial and saying 'everything is going as planned' and bragging about box sales while the playerbase was evaporating.
Hey, nice text, but god damn it reading your last statements it sounds like you are talking about the Holocaust or another crime against humanity. Let me just remind you, you speak about a game.
Hey, nice text, but god damn it reading your last statements it sounds like you are talking about the Holocaust or another crime against humanity. Let me just remind you, you speak about a game.
Go tell that the old SWG-vets. It's damn scary how some people really lost any sense of reality and take games so seriously. Really scary.
Altho we cannot deny Sony has become a shitty company as whole. And John Smedly is just a total dissaster. Just like Gaute G. was.
Ofcourse I hated Funcom back in May/June and felt ript off and lied to.
But Gaute G. being gone now and Craig doing a much better job.
I personally think that Funcom is finally coming around as a whole and can move forward and do better.
Cheers
Exactly. This only proves that OP is right when saying Funcom doesn't learn from past mistakes. Fool me once, shame on you. GG fooled them twice.
Gaute Godager was the Co-founder of Funcom, so kicking him after the fiasco with Anarchy Online wasn't a solution that would have solved anything. Also keep in mind thanks to Gaute we do have AoC today. if he had been kicked who know's what would have happened. Gaute proved to funcom and the MMO community that his skills as GD is non existant with AoC. Also his complete and utter failure on how he handled the launch and the time after damaged Funcom way more then the AO Launch did. Funcom being a company on the stock market are required to have a board with the biggest stock owners. This board is the real deal when it comes to controlling the company, they decide what the CEO of Funcom shall do about different things and with Gaute's failure and the fact this time it did hurt Funcom's reputation badly too the only solution was Gaute needs to go, either by free will or by force.
It's easy to say funcom didn't learn from the first time, but the situation back then and when AoC started failing is actually quite different.
By assigning Craig Morrison as GD of AoC they do what they can to rebuild the game, and exactly that is what he is doing. He comes out as a honest guy, even EE is honest these days in interviews. Funcom have learnt, but restoring their reputation isn't done in a month, they will have to fight this for years to come to fully get back to where they should be. Unless some kind of miracle is puled off and AoC becomes a game that gets 500K subscribers to millions of subscribers again.
OP is funny since he looks past the actual facts, it's easy to say that funcom did the mistake, but the blame is to be put on one person the GD. he knows the status of the game, he has the power to prevent things from being said to media. He was more concerned about showing off then doing the right things it seems like, and well it backfired on him.
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC)
On my radar: TSW, MO
MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside
MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
The problem dosen't happen in FC alone, look at War! Its also being release too early.
The problem is when the dev or publisher becomes too big of themselves and wana outdo WoW. Thinking that releasing their game early will grap players that is tired of WoW, instead releasing an un-finish product pushes more players to WoW.
They only have themselves to blame....
And if Darkfall really launch with most of what they promise intact, than it will trully teach others coming mmo what should be done... athough that's a big IF............
RIP Orc Choppa
What was the person that, after launch, said that he never considered PVP a major system of the game and therefore wasn't disappointed that it wasn't in at launch?
Who was the person that said Dx10 was pulled at the last second and after the the box was printed? yet here we are almost a year later and still Dx10 is not in the live game? If Dx10 was so close to being 'ready' that it was on the box, then why is it still not in the game?
Who is the person, that in an interview given last week still brags about the 'great launch'?
I agree with you about the new director.. but the deciet at Funcom was not all the old director
Erling E. only did was he was told to do. He is nothing more then a PR marionet.
That he lives in a fantasy world and hasn't really good ties with reality is a different matter.
Gaute G. was the sole reason the game bombed hard. Just like Anarchy Online bombed hard at launch as well.
I agree that it would have been better for Funcom to get rid of Erling E. as well. It would have helped restore their image better.
But nonetheless, every sane person knows Erling E. is nothing but a PR marionet.
Every company has them. Or do you say that EA Mythic with Mark Jacobs and co. has never blown things out of proportion with their WAR?? I beg to differ.
What it comes down to is that Gaute G. was unfit for the job as Game Director. The misserable failure of the AO launch should have been a big hint to him already.
But the problem is, that Gaute G. was the co-founder of Funcom. So if he doesn't see his failures himself, then it's hard to get rid of him.
Luckily in September he finally saw the light, woke up from his fairytale and parted the company.
So from now on it can only get better. As Craig is much more qualified as Game Director, is a lot more realistic and more important: He is not lying!
Cheers
I don't agree it was all GG's fault. Given that the game was released in such an unready state, its clear the fault lies with the financial and marketing people, possibly at Eidos who pushed the game out the door before it was ready. Is it GG's fault the game wasn't ready? Yeah, probably, but he's not the one who put it on the shelf.
Dude,
You don't know what you are talking about man.
Dude,
So you are saying that the reason why it takes Funcom forever to do even small fixes is because of Gaute and his bad project management? Lol
I believe the main problem is that Funcom doesn't have enough experienced developers. They employ lot of people who come straight from school and have zero work experience. This really shows in their ability to react to different situations. Everything takes three times as long as it would take with a 'real' MMO company. Same thing can be seen with Darkfall. If you don't have the experience, you are bound to fail, simple as that.
I mean how long did it take for them to do simple server merges? 4 months? Now how long did it take from Mythic to do it? That's right.
There are plenty of gullible people here and Gaute did a smart thing by stepping down. Everyone jumped on the 'Lets blame Gaute' bandwagon and all the 'crimes' of Funcom went away overnight. Now with Craig EVERYTHING is different, yay!!!
It was a really smart move and you are a living proof of how well it worked.
Dude.
Dude,
You don't know what you are talking about man.
Dude,
So you are saying that the reason why it takes Funcom forever to do even small fixes is because of Gaute and his bad project management? Lol
I believe the main problem is that Funcom doesn't have enough experienced developers. They employ lot of people who come straight from school and have zero work experience. This really shows in their ability to react to different situations. Everything takes three times as long as it would take with a 'real' MMO company. Same thing can be seen with Darkfall. If you don't have the experience, you are bound to fail, simple as that.
I mean how long did it take for them to do simple server merges? 4 months? Now how long did it take from Mythic to do it? That's right.
There are plenty of gullible people here and Gaute did a smart thing by stepping down. Everyone jumped on the 'Lets blame Gaute' bandwagon and all the 'crimes' of Funcom went away overnight. Now with Craig EVERYTHING is different, yay!!!
It was a really smart move and you are a living proof of how well it worked.
Dude.
No point debating with people that have some blind hate against a company over a game lol. As you come up with poor excuses only proving more you don't know what you are talking about!
Mythic had to do the server consolidation fast or they would have lost even more subs then Age of Conan did.
There whole Open RvR and PVP as whole was population dependend. The server caps were way too low on launch and thus they launched with way too many servers.
You cannot even compare the Server merges of Age of Conan with the merges that Mythic did, as Mythic did simply NOT merge any server at all!
The only thing they came up with were character transfers. No server as of yet has been shut down.
That is peanuts compaired to what Funcom was facing.
Funcom couldn't just come up with server transfers, as people would have been furious for having to leave their cities behind!
So Funcom had to merge servers. And the way the game is build, with player city caps per zone, battlekeep caps as whole, instanced, etc, etc. Made it not an easy task.
Remember it took Mythic months too to fix most the CTD'ing, lag issues and frequent Disconnects.
Hence, 5 months later they still haven't fixed the Fortress zone crashing issues. Not to mention several endgame PVE dungeons still being buggy.
Or how about all the graphic glitching and clipping issues? 5 months later still not fixed!
How do I know? My WAR sub just ran out 1 weeks ago!
And don't get me started on Blizzard with WoW or SOE with their MMO's and the speed they fix things. As there isn't any speed with these so called REAL MMO companies, as you like to call them.
And Funcom having only rookies straight out of school?? Well if that would be the case than they have acquired a hell of gifted talented people that have pulled off real miracles with such lack of experience then.
Seriously,
The environments, zones, avatars, animations, combat, music, etc, etc is very very well done. The amount of detail, love and care that went into that shows of real talent and experience.
But sure man. Whatever.
Cheers
Dude,
You don't know what you are talking about man.
Dude,
So you are saying that the reason why it takes Funcom forever to do even small fixes is because of Gaute and his bad project management? Lol
I believe the main problem is that Funcom doesn't have enough experienced developers. They employ lot of people who come straight from school and have zero work experience. This really shows in their ability to react to different situations. Everything takes three times as long as it would take with a 'real' MMO company.
Actually in my opinion what slowed them down so much was that the game was released so early that in effect they were continuing to develop the game to its launch state in a live environment. How long was it before they even had an effective test platform?
They were trying to juggle fixing stuff while continuing to work on the game to get it to its intended release state at the same time. Of course it was going to be a mess.
Erling works at marketing, those guys are always lying, it is their job, just like salesmans of used cars.
Still, I don't see the OPs point. AoC launched in a crappy state, yes. So maybe he just shouldn't buy any Funcom games, or other MMOs for that matter, at launch. AoC was still nowhere near Vanguards launch.
Funcom couldn't just come up with server transfers, as people would have been furious for having to leave their cities behind!
.................And Funcom having only rookies straight out of school?? Well if that would be the case than they have acquired a hell of gifted talented people that have pulled off real miracles with such lack of experience then.
Dude,
That first comment is absolute BS. Everyone I've ever talked to wanted merges as soon as possible dispite the fact that thye would lose their cities. Have you even been to official forums during the last 4 months? Half of the threads were people wanting merges.
Either Funcom devs were incompetent and it took them 4 months to do a relatively simple server merge, or they once again lied, hoping that people would come back by Christmas and there wouldn't be a need for server merges.
Read my post again. I didn't say Funcom has only rookies working for them. But they do have a lot of rookies.
There was this post in another forum by an FC employee where he talked about different problems regarding AoC launch. He explained how Gaute did some crazy reorganizing, promoting all the competent devs to 'team leaders' or something, which meant they had to sit in useless meetings, while the real work, the coding, was left to the rookies. I don't have the link for the post but I'm sure it can be found with google.
Let me just remind you, you speak about a game.
Actually, I think what Octa was talking about is money and time. You're limited time on this planet. On your deathbed will you be wishing you had spent more time at work or more time gaming?
I was one of the fools who paid for a 6 month sub to AO when it launched--before I started playing the game obviously. I was naive. Those were the early days of MMORPG's and I'd never encounted a developer as incompetent as Funcom. I trusted game developers in those days. Flash forward 7 years from the launch of AO, and with the lanuch of AoC Funcom did the same exact thing that they did with AO. They learned obsolutely NOTHING from the AO experience. You can also add me to the list of customers who will never forget or forgive them.
Funcom couldn't just come up with server transfers, as people would have been furious for having to leave their cities behind!
.................And Funcom having only rookies straight out of school?? Well if that would be the case than they have acquired a hell of gifted talented people that have pulled off real miracles with such lack of experience then.
Dude,
That first comment is absolute BS. Everyone I've ever talked to wanted merges as soon as possible dispite the fact that thye would lose their cities. Have you even been to official forums during the last 4 months? Half of the threads were people wanting merges.
Cities were all refunded back in terms of cost. Once servers were complete people had to attest to the locations again from scratch.
Either Funcom devs were incompetent and it took them 4 months to do a relatively simple server merge, or they once again lied, hoping that people would come back by Christmas and there wouldn't be a need for server merges.
Pure assumption - you have no idea on the finer details of server merges, you have no idea but presume that FC are desperate but throwing out that come back for Christmas. FC server set could quite easily work differently to say WAR's which was brought up before. It works differently. You can transfer from NA to EU and vice versa with that game can you?
Read my post again. I didn't say Funcom has only rookies working for them. But they do have a lot of rookies.
Assumption again - how do you know? you met any of them?
I have met several dozen who all have been in the industry 10 + years.
There was this post in another forum by an FC employee where he talked about different problems regarding AoC launch. He explained how Gaute did some crazy reorganizing, promoting all the competent devs to 'team leaders' or something, which meant they had to sit in useless meetings, while the real work, the coding, was left to the rookies. I don't have the link for the post but I'm sure it can be found with google.
Oh that must be a deal breaker whether to sub or not right? We been through this already several times on this site. I am almost positive I have wrote replies to your other named alt about it. Guess the fact that FC was voted in the top 10 companies to work for in Norway was no big deal too?
Seems like you got it in for them from any possible angle.
Let me just remind you, you speak about a game.
Actually, I think what Octa was talking about is money and time. You're limited time on this planet. On your deathbed will you be wishing you had spent more time at work or more time gaming?
I was one of the fools who paid for a 6 month sub to AO when it launched--before I started playing the game obviously. I was naive. Those were the early days of MMORPG's and I'd never encounted a developer as incompetent as Funcom. I trusted game developers in those days. Flash forward 7 years from the launch of AO, and with the lanuch of AoC Funcom did the same exact thing that they did with AO. They learned obsolutely NOTHING from the AO experience. You can also add me to the list of customers who will never forget or forgive them.
There are 2 kinds of people:
1. People who have morals and principles and will never again give money to a company they feel has lied to them and 'stole' their money.
2. People who don't have morals or principles, don't give a shit about anything but their own short term satisfaction, and will bend over and take in whatever the devs give them.
If more people would belong to group 1, we as customers would get much better MMO's and less BS.
If Funcom survives from their initial failure, it will send a message to all the developers: Treat your customers like crap, lie to them, take their money and in the end you will be rewarded for that.
This is a scary world we are living in.
Let me just remind you, you speak about a game.
Actually, I think what Octa was talking about is money and time. You're limited time on this planet. On your deathbed will you be wishing you had spent more time at work or more time gaming?
I was one of the fools who paid for a 6 month sub to AO when it launched--before I started playing the game obviously. I was naive. Those were the early days of MMORPG's and I'd never encounted a developer as incompetent as Funcom. I trusted game developers in those days. Flash forward 7 years from the launch of AO, and with the lanuch of AoC Funcom did the same exact thing that they did with AO. They learned obsolutely NOTHING from the AO experience. You can also add me to the list of customers who will never forget or forgive them.
There are 2 kinds of people:
1. People who have morals and principles and will never again give money to a company they feel has lied to them and 'stole' their money.
2. People who don't have morals or principles, don't give a shit about anything but their own short term satisfaction, and will bend over and take in whatever the devs give them.
If more people would belong to group 1, we as customers would get much better MMO's and less BS.
If Funcom survives from their initial failure, it will send a message to all the developers: Treat your customers like crap, lie to them, take their money and in the end you will be rewarded for that.
This is a scary world we are living in.
Good to see your still subscribed and supporting all the awesome changes happening.
On principle I personally am happy paying for a better service as time goes on too.
Let me just remind you, you speak about a game.
Actually, I think what Octa was talking about is money and time. You're limited time on this planet. On your deathbed will you be wishing you had spent more time at work or more time gaming?
I was one of the fools who paid for a 6 month sub to AO when it launched--before I started playing the game obviously. I was naive. Those were the early days of MMORPG's and I'd never encounted a developer as incompetent as Funcom. I trusted game developers in those days. Flash forward 7 years from the launch of AO, and with the lanuch of AoC Funcom did the same exact thing that they did with AO. They learned obsolutely NOTHING from the AO experience. You can also add me to the list of customers who will never forget or forgive them.
I was right there with you. The hugest disappointment for anyone who lived threw the mess that was the first 2 yrs of Anarchy Online, was FunCom's endless pledges that they learned so much from it's horrid launch and there was no way they would let that happen with Age of Conan.
It was another bold face lie from the company that that has told some legendary whoppers, "there will be no camping in Shadowlands" - (AO expansion), wanna guess how much of the content forced you to camp for hours to unlock the progression?
I think most of us are talking the company, it's lack of ethics and it's shoddy products.
Don't forget it's ability to turn things around from experience too. Especially now considering how far AoC has come compared to at release.
Don't know if your aware though after your first free month.
You can't re-write history, but you can learn from it, some times it may take more than one go.
The end result is the same though it does get turned around - difference is this time FC has more manpower behind AoC than AO.
Similarities were there were less hiccups at AoC launch - they were not the same no matter how much spin. And moving forward there has been a quicker turn around in fixes. Again, not sure if your aware as I think you last logged in half a year ago? can't remember.
But you know best thing to do with those STILL upset is just to move on - obviously it can't be healthy to continue to go on about it.
Yeah, Funcom is a classic case of love the product, hate the company. These inept assholes should've been beaten with a customer relations manual over the head till they got the simple point in that they need to treat their customers with some respect. They pay for their jobs afterall. Personally, being an AO veteran I sometimes in the past wanted to visit these idiots down in Oslo and beat some sense into them. Even for norwegians, they are some fucking morons, and I'm a norwegian so I can bash them all I want, or does the bash=ban only apply when you bash americans?? Oh well...
Oh, and Avery - point with Funcom is that they don't learn from experience. They still suck. Well, not so much anymore now that GG left the company, but still. The rest of them still there and they where in on the spin aswell.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Don't forget it's ability to turn things around from experience too. Especially now considering how far AoC has come compared to at release.
that is not 'turning it around', it's finishing incomplete development on the customers nickle.
Don't know if your aware though after your first free month.
You are well aware I played longer than the first 30 days Avery, don't try and rewrite that.
You can't re-write history, but you can learn from it, some times it may take more than one go.
The end result is the same though it does get turned around - difference is this time FC has more manpower behind AoC than AO.
10X the budget and 10X the manpower and more years in development than AO and AoC was actually launched less complete than it's predecessor
Similarities were there were less hiccups at AoC launch - they were not the same no matter how much spin. And moving forward there has been a quicker turn around in fixes. Again, not sure if your aware as I think you last logged in half a year ago? can't remember.
Only positive difference between the 2 launches, AoC serves didn't crash every 5 mins, other than that the similarities are uncanny, btw were you there for AO's launch or the any of the years after? I have 1 friend left out of our 100+ member AoC guild still playing, I am well aware of the state of the current game.
But you know best thing to do with those STILL upset is just to move on - obviously it can't be healthy to continue to go on about it.
If you don't like the legitimate criticism of the company and it's games Avery, stick to the official forums where naysayers are not allowed to voice their opinions.
Don't forget it's ability to turn things around from experience too. Especially now considering how far AoC has come compared to at release.
that is not 'turning it around', it's finishing incomplete development on the customers nickle.
Don't know if your aware though after your first free month.
You are well aware I played longer than the first 30 days Avery, don't try and rewrite that.
You can't re-write history, but you can learn from it, some times it may take more than one go.
The end result is the same though it does get turned around - difference is this time FC has more manpower behind AoC than AO.
10X the budget and 10X the manpower and more years in development than AO and AoC was actually launched less complete than it's predecessor
Similarities were there were less hiccups at AoC launch - they were not the same no matter how much spin. And moving forward there has been a quicker turn around in fixes. Again, not sure if your aware as I think you last logged in half a year ago? can't remember.
Only positive difference between the 2 launches, AoC serves didn't crash every 5 mins, other than that the similarities are uncanny, btw were you there for AO's launch or the any of the years after? I have 1 friend left out of our 100+ member AoC guild still playing, I am well aware of the state of the current game.
But you know best thing to do with those STILL upset is just to move on - obviously it can't be healthy to continue to go on about it.
If you don't like the legitimate criticism of the company and it's games Avery, stick to the official forums where naysayers are not allowed to voice their opinions.
I believe your misinformed, the official forums have plenty of naysayers as you call it. What they don't tolerate is misinformation and constant whining.