Full PVP looting is Awesome but their should be restricitons

Scottman

 I love a game that punishes poor skills and rewards good skills

Ive never been a fan of people being better just cause they have grinded for a billion hours instead of TRUE skill determing what happens

That is Why I played battleground Europe (ww2 with a name change) for many years True PVP based on SKILL with the weapon and your own cunning determines who lives and dies

I loved WOW ......even loved the pvp but when I fist started up WOW ......I rolled PVP cause I heard there was punishments for attacking somebody far below your lvl

I was disappointed when I found out there was no REAL punishement or doing so

Im glad to see game coming out thatare toying with full loot pvp

But I would like to see PVP full looting have restrictions

 Like :

You have to have kill rights on that player (as he attacked first) This brings true reward and punishment and risk while protecting lawful players a little

This is simular to EVE's model (a great game)

 

Kyleran

I'd prefer the Shadowbane model. What you are wearing is protected, but anything in your backpack including gold drops when you die.

This gives a player a chance to wear his better gear and not feel the need to keep it in storage for fear of loss, yet provides strong incentive to fight over what people are carrying.

 

Scottman

Originally posted by Kyleran


I'd prefer the Shadowbane model. What you are wearing is protected, but anything in your backpack including gold drops when you die.
This gives a player a chance to wear his better gear and not feel the need to keep it in storage for fear of loss, yet provides strong incentive to fight over what people are carrying.
 

I think that would be a great way to handle it as well

 

There should ........no NEEDS to be risk in PVP game

Or experiance will be an empty one

I Also think there should be real punishments for higher lvl attacking much lower lvles Like they CAN lose there Gear cause player and his Guild can attack him with no such restrictions

Valias

Neocron had a cool concept with PvP looting. Players were given one safeslot on their toolbar or "belt", and anything placed inside of that slot was protected and never dropped for players. Also, any implants or biological enhancement to your character wouldn't drop. Armor or anything that wasn't in your safeslot but was on your belt, and other additional inventory was fair game.

tfwarlord

Well there are features in place (not restrictions but much better alternative) like

The bounty system..
WHen a player kills you, got get a death certificate which you can choose to use to place a bounty on his head.

If a player attacks a person belong to his own faction that would make him extremely unpopular the faction (people will start shooting after him).

There will be some npc guards (ala the police faction in EVE, only not as objective). They do more than make sure no one attacks a guy belong to their faction, they also can for illegal goods (which opens up for players to play smuggler))

A player can choose to place an insurance on items, which makes it impossible anyone to loot those items. Not all items can be insured dough, like rare recourses, and items that are "illegal" for one or both sides.

There are also more but i cant remember them now..

The fact is, restrictions makes games boring and less free, but with these features instead, a player can still choose to be a criminal jackass, but he will have some more "challenges" because of it.

That is a good thing about Earthrise, you can do almost everything (no restrictions), but all choices have consequences.
You can look it as mmo karma. If you are a nice guy it will be easier for you, than if you are a murdering pillaging criminal (note not a free ride, because the murdering pillaging criminals can still choose to go after you, but you will have more people (and npcs) to protect you.

neonwire

Originally posted by Scottman

Originally posted by Kyleran


I'd prefer the Shadowbane model. What you are wearing is protected, but anything in your backpack including gold drops when you die.
This gives a player a chance to wear his better gear and not feel the need to keep it in storage for fear of loss, yet provides strong incentive to fight over what people are carrying.
 

I think that would be a great way to handle it as well

 

There should ........no NEEDS to be risk in PVP game

Or experiance will be an empty one

I Also think there should be real punishments for higher lvl attacking much lower lvles Like they CAN lose there Gear cause player and his Guild can attack him with no such restrictions

 

Does Earthrise even have levels? I thought it was a skill based game......or am I wrong? Also assuming that Earthrise doesnt have any levels then there will be no glowing numbers floating over each avatars head so there is no way of seeing how powerful an opponent is. You might attack someone not knowing that they are weaker than you.

Assuming that Earthrise does utilise a reasonably detailed skill system, it kind of makes the whole "strong vs weak" idea which we have seen in previous level based games to be a rather moot point. Besides if I see a person who is definately a member of an enemy faction then I will want to take him down. There would be little sense in me being penalised for doing this simply because he has lower stats than me as fighting off your enemies is the point of the game.

I definately fully support the risk vs reward aspect though which we have seen in EVE. MMOs have been becoming more and more soft over the years so its great to see a game coming out with a more brutal and punishing system where your actions have real consequences.

neonwire

Originally posted by tfwarlord


Well there are features in place (not restrictions but much better alternative) like
The bounty system..

WHen a player kills you, got get a death certificate which you can choose to use to place a bounty on his head.
If a player attacks a person belong to his own faction that would make him extremely unpopular the faction (people will start shooting after him).


There will be some npc guards (ala the police faction in EVE, only not as objective). They do more than make sure no one attacks a guy belong to their faction, they also can for illegal goods (which opens up for players to play smuggler))
A player can choose to place an insurance on items, which makes it impossible anyone to loot those items. Not all items can be insured dough, like rare recourses, and items that are "illegal" for one or both sides.
There are also more but i cant remember them now..
The fact is, restrictions makes games boring and less free, but with these features instead, a player can still choose to be a criminal jackass, but he will have some more "challenges" because of it.
That is a good thing about Earthrise, you can do almost everything (no restrictions), but all choices have consequences.

You can look it as mmo karma. If you are a nice guy it will be easier for you, than if you are a murdering pillaging criminal (note not a free ride, because the murdering pillaging criminals can still choose to go after you, but you will have more people (and npcs) to protect you.

 

I liked all of that. Its true that games should have no restrictions at all. There are no restrictions in real life after all.......but in real life there ARE consequences for your actions.......so it makes perfect sense to implement consequences into the game world. This way people are totally free to attack whoever they like (why wouldnt you?) which is great because the world and its inhabitants can and will react towards the killer realisticly. People who have been murdered unfairly by someone can actually do something about it which is great. I love the thought of playing a game like this. A roleplaying game where you can finally roleplay with your actions in a realistic way.

Infalible

Originally posted by neonwire

I liked all of that. Its true that games should have no restrictions at all. There are no restrictions in real life after all.......but in real life there ARE consequences for your actions.......so it makes perfect sense to implement consequences into the game world. This way people are totally free to attack whoever they like (why wouldnt you?) which is great because the world and its inhabitants can and will react towards the killer realisticly. People who have been murdered unfairly by someone can actually do something about it which is great. I love the thought of playing a game like this. A roleplaying game where you can finally roleplay with your actions in a realistic way.

The problem with this line of thought is that this isn't real life. It is a game. Any consequences in real life are actual consequences that have an actual detrimental effect on a person. In a game, any consequence can be met with arrogance simply because they don't mean anything. If one of your characters is overly hated, you could just go off and create a new one, or log out or even move to a new game. It's not the end of the world.

I'm a little cynical about this idea of in game and meaningful consequences as I've seen it before. One of two things happens: the idea is either scrapped or, over time as more and more players join and the system becomes abused, restrictions are brought in to reinforce it.

We'll have to see what MH do here ^^

tfwarlord

---

Originally posted by Infalible
The problem with this line of thought is that this isn't real life. It is a game. Any consequences in real life are actual consequences that have an actual detrimental effect on a person. In a game, any consequence can be met with arrogance simply because they don't mean anything. If one of your characters is overly hated, you could just go off and create a new one, or log out or even move to a new game. It's not the end of the world.
I'm a little cynical about this idea of in game and meaningful consequences as I've seen it before. One of two things happens: the idea is either scrapped or, over time as more and more players join and the system becomes abused, restrictions are brought in to reinforce it.
We'll have to see what MH do here ^^

---

well i have tried to have concequences instead of restrictions in a game. I used to play SWG (before the dredded NEG), and i was in a guild, which i really loved (best community ever). Well one night i hunted a jedi which was in a guild allied to our guild, i dident kill him or anything, i just shot him a little. The next my guild courtmarchaled me. (Court room, prosecuter and witness (the jedi)). I dident get kicked out, but it was close. But i surely dident hunt allied jedis anymore.

What i am trying to say with this little story, is that just deleting a charactor wouldent have helped me, because the guild knew me (and my voice), and i liked that the guild knew me.
Besides if you have 300 skills in earthrise, it will surely suck if you had to kill the character and retrain. If the concequnces is also aimed at one guild (which they are) and you really like the guild, you will think twise to do such things..

Another examble is EVE. in Eve you can also attack everyone, but if you start mass attacking and looting, you will become a criminal and you will have great difficulty in specobs zones, where a kind of police agency with powerfull ships will attack you. the same function (with some minor tweaks) is in Earthrise. Agian Deleting your charecter will suck if you have a powerfull one. Besides it will suck being kicked out of your guild also (unless your guild is a criminal guild)..
Being a criminal will also give some difficulties when ever you se NPCs from either faction, cause they will frag your ass.

neonwire

Originally posted by Infalible

Originally posted by neonwire

I liked all of that. Its true that games should have no restrictions at all. There are no restrictions in real life after all.......but in real life there ARE consequences for your actions.......so it makes perfect sense to implement consequences into the game world. This way people are totally free to attack whoever they like (why wouldnt you?) which is great because the world and its inhabitants can and will react towards the killer realisticly. People who have been murdered unfairly by someone can actually do something about it which is great. I love the thought of playing a game like this. A roleplaying game where you can finally roleplay with your actions in a realistic way.

The problem with this line of thought is that this isn't real life. It is a game. Any consequences in real life are actual consequences that have an actual detrimental effect on a person. In a game, any consequence can be met with arrogance simply because they don't mean anything. If one of your characters is overly hated, you could just go off and create a new one, or log out or even move to a new game. It's not the end of the world.

I'm a little cynical about this idea of in game and meaningful consequences as I've seen it before. One of two things happens: the idea is either scrapped or, over time as more and more players join and the system becomes abused, restrictions are brought in to reinforce it.

We'll have to see what MH do here ^^

 

I understand your cynical viewpoint but its based on what has happened in the past. So far virtually every mmo has totally failed to implement a working system that deals with stupid and unfair behaviour on the players part. The only game I can think of which has an even remotely good system for this is EVE.

You said that in a game any consequence can be met with arrogance and simply be ignored. Yeah this is true.......with all badly designed games in the past. It doesnt mean it will always be the case. Using this logic it would stand to reason that human beings should all be crawling around instead of walking because when they first tried to walk they fell down and as a result they decided that walking would ALWAYS fail so they gave up trying.......but this isnt the case. We overcome our problems and find solutions.

I prefer to maintain a more positive viewpoint. Afterall its inevitable that eventually someone is going to make a decent mmo that actually implements a realistic system into their game. If people can design microchips that allow paralyzed people to control machines with their thoughts (Braingate chip.....look it up) or bionic eyes that give sight to blind people then I somehow dont think a decent working PvP system is all that difficult to achieve.

A decent system will reward players for good or "correct" behaviour and properly punish them for inconsiderate, unfair or "incorrect" behaviour.....within the context of the game of course. Its actually astounding to see how utterly rubbish the consequence systems have been in previous mmos. This is why so many short sighted people who cannot think past what they have already seen insist that every PvP game will ALWAYS fail. You see this kind of crap all over the forums. Bad games + stupid players = stunted viewpoint.

I dont agree with what you said about players logging out or deleting their characters in an attempt to dodge the system. Sorry but thats just daft.......although I guess it can depend on how daft the game is. Somehow I dont think logging out in Earthrise will wipe the slate clean. In fact we know it wont. Relevant npcs will still hate the offending player and the "victim" and his associates certainly arent going to forget him simply because he logged out.

Deleting the character IS definately a silly idea though........although I have no problem if an offending idiot wishes to "commit suicide". They are perfectly welcome to wipe out months of their own effort and start again from scratch.

Like you said though we will have to wait and see. I actually feel quite optimistic about Earthrise though and I'm really looking forward to when it comes out. Its a game which is being built around a PvP concept while most of the previous failures were actually PvE games with PvP added as an afterthought. Also Earthrise isnt going to be a level based game while the failures beforehand were. Finally Earthrise has the benefit of being able to look at what has and hasnt worked in the past. From what I hear it has many similarities with EVE which has to be a good thing considering its currently the only decent PvP game around.