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Pre-CU,Would you be willing....?
To pay a $30 sub?
If SOE/LA would sell the rights to the Pre-CU to an independent developer for a revamp and relaunch?
I,for one would be willing to pay.
This question has been stewing in my mind for months....Am I alone?
Feel free to speculate on the gross number of subs a revamp and relaunch might net. (At a $30 sub)
Discuss....
Comments
I would absolutely pay $30 for it, as I am already paying for a couple subs on other games that will never engender the feeling of "home" that SWG Pre-CU gave me.
The problem is... SOE has already said they did not keep any of the Pre-CU code. which if you've worked in a software development arena you know is a baldfaced lie. They cannot now cough it up though and still retain any kind of credibility (not that we feel they have any left).
It all boils down to a real shame, too. I brielfly worked with the swgprecu emulation team (now merged with (SWG: ANH) and recreating the backend server is a monumental task that is years in the doing with a group of coders that are spread out all over North America and work in their spare time for no more than the hope of recreating what never should have been lost in the first place.
Can you show me where they said they did not keep the code? I don't remember seeing that. I have seen people say that they said this, but never seen it backed up with a link or proper citing.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Can you show me where they said they did not keep the code? I don't remember seeing that. I have seen people say that they said this, but never seen it backed up with a link or proper citing.
When the Emu team first got together there was an effort to get all their ducks in a row legally. To that end they had a conference call with SOE, and yes Smedley chimed in on the lack of existing Pre-CU code. He also was amusingly skeptical of any private coding group's chances of recreating a backend server without that original code. His parting words were along the lines of, "Knock yourselves out trying."
I would need to know in much further detail what that "revamp" would mean? Secondly I'd need to have assurances to their commitement at maintaining it.
If these conditions were satisfied I'd pay for a year up front.
It would never happen. LEC would charge huge $$$ for that code and would still require a royalty payment of some sort. They would never do it. Stick with the duck..it is your best bet.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Thank you for your response. I don't feel so alone.
I have posed this question,because after months of lurking on MMO forum boards I have never seen a question like it posed before.
I am of the opinion that a higher monthly sub may be the incentive that is required for a small independent developer to go against the current grain of MMO development.
If said developer would take the risk to develop a more intricate and involved gaming experience for a more discerning and mature playerbase.
I would be more than happy to support such an effort. I don't put a $$ on my hobby.
I am a Pre-Cu vet. I am not bitter however,I feel the lessons of what happened to this game may oneday be seized upon in full and a superior product will be the result. One can hope.
$15 per month however, is simply not going to be enough to inspire it. Of this,I am certain of my opinion.
Can you show me where they said they did not keep the code? I don't remember seeing that. I have seen people say that they said this, but never seen it backed up with a link or proper citing.
When the Emu team first got together there was an effort to get all their ducks in a row legally. To that end they had a conference call with SOE, and yes Smedley chimed in on the lack of existing Pre-CU code. He also was amusingly skeptical of any private coding group's chances of recreating a backend server without that original code. His parting words were along the lines of, "Knock yourselves out trying."
So you personally took part in this conference call and you personally heard Smedley say they no longer had the code?
fishermage.blogspot.com
Can you show me where they said they did not keep the code? I don't remember seeing that. I have seen people say that they said this, but never seen it backed up with a link or proper citing.
When the Emu team first got together there was an effort to get all their ducks in a row legally. To that end they had a conference call with SOE, and yes Smedley chimed in on the lack of existing Pre-CU code. He also was amusingly skeptical of any private coding group's chances of recreating a backend server without that original code. His parting words were along the lines of, "Knock yourselves out trying."
So you personally took part in this conference call and you personally heard Smedley say they no longer had the code?
When I joined the team I asked about the legality of what we were doing and was then told about the conference call. The call was recorded and I got to listen to it. I couldn't imagine anyone going to the trouble of engineering a false recording just to soothe the fears of a few guys worried about the legality of what they were attempting, so I have no reason to doubt what I heard.
Can you show me where they said they did not keep the code? I don't remember seeing that. I have seen people say that they said this, but never seen it backed up with a link or proper citing.
When the Emu team first got together there was an effort to get all their ducks in a row legally. To that end they had a conference call with SOE, and yes Smedley chimed in on the lack of existing Pre-CU code. He also was amusingly skeptical of any private coding group's chances of recreating a backend server without that original code. His parting words were along the lines of, "Knock yourselves out trying."
So you personally took part in this conference call and you personally heard Smedley say they no longer had the code?
When I joined the team I asked about the legality of what we were doing and was then told about the conference call. The call was recorded and I got to listen to it. I couldn't imagine anyone going to the trouble of engineering a false recording just to soothe the fears of a few guys worried about the legality of what they were attempting, so I have no reason to doubt what I heard.
So they have never admitted this publicly? Just to the EMU team via conference call?
fishermage.blogspot.com
I usually have several active accounts when I play a game anyways(depending on what it is). I wouldn't mind it at all. Pre-CU I had 4 accounts, and enjoyed every minute of playing. Well worth the money.
Can you show me where they said they did not keep the code? I don't remember seeing that. I have seen people say that they said this, but never seen it backed up with a link or proper citing.
When the Emu team first got together there was an effort to get all their ducks in a row legally. To that end they had a conference call with SOE, and yes Smedley chimed in on the lack of existing Pre-CU code. He also was amusingly skeptical of any private coding group's chances of recreating a backend server without that original code. His parting words were along the lines of, "Knock yourselves out trying."
So you personally took part in this conference call and you personally heard Smedley say they no longer had the code?
When I joined the team I asked about the legality of what we were doing and was then told about the conference call. The call was recorded and I got to listen to it. I couldn't imagine anyone going to the trouble of engineering a false recording just to soothe the fears of a few guys worried about the legality of what they were attempting, so I have no reason to doubt what I heard.
So they have never admitted this publicly? Just to the EMU team via conference call?
As it is well known outside of the Emu community I would imagine that it likely is in written format from Smed sometime in the past, but that is not my source of the comment.
Funny Smed underestimating the skills and talents of true fans. lol
I haven't been in the EMU in a year and back then i was impressed. They are doin a great job, but I don't think I would pay for a sub for pre-cu. Its too old and time for new blood.
WoW is a disease that will infect your brain and your computer.
That has always been a major concern, that by the time they finish with an Emu that the graphics of SWG (released in 2003) will be too painful to view compared to what is out at the moment in other MMO's. Playability and atmosphere has always been more important to me than graphics, but eventually even I would be swayed by a visually lopsided comparison.
If there's one constant about John Smedley it's that he underestimates the people he pisses off.
Can you show me where they said they did not keep the code? I don't remember seeing that. I have seen people say that they said this, but never seen it backed up with a link or proper citing.
When the Emu team first got together there was an effort to get all their ducks in a row legally. To that end they had a conference call with SOE, and yes Smedley chimed in on the lack of existing Pre-CU code. He also was amusingly skeptical of any private coding group's chances of recreating a backend server without that original code. His parting words were along the lines of, "Knock yourselves out trying."
So you personally took part in this conference call and you personally heard Smedley say they no longer had the code?
When I joined the team I asked about the legality of what we were doing and was then told about the conference call. The call was recorded and I got to listen to it. I couldn't imagine anyone going to the trouble of engineering a false recording just to soothe the fears of a few guys worried about the legality of what they were attempting, so I have no reason to doubt what I heard.
So they have never admitted this publicly? Just to the EMU team via conference call?
As it is well known outside of the Emu community I would imagine that it likely is in written format from Smed sometime in the past, but that is not my source of the comment.
So in other words you have no proof this was ever said by anyone.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I agree it is time for "new blood". The problem is,all the "new blood" of the past 5 years is so thin and flat that a vampire would starve even if dropped into a vat full of it. And the future trend(s) is not innovating in the right direction IMO.
I would pay $30/per month for ANY IP that had more to offer than what the genre has produced for the last 5 years.
I was simply using SWG as starting point.
SWG is and probably always will be a point of origen and rallying place for those of us who crave a deeper and more involved MMO experience.
Even if it is getting a bit grey and dated.
I am a supporter of CCP and EvE O and consider them to be the much needed rogue element and the current "last bastion of hope"in the industry.
I am a 2 year vet of EvE and I really enjoy the game.
My growth and enjoyment of the game however is severly handicapped by the fact that I am HoH and my speech has been degrading for years. In a Vent/TS intensive game like EvE that fact is an option killer...SWG freed me from that,I was a Master Artisan-DE and chat and e-mail was all that was required for me to have a character that was involved and mattered.
Can you show me where they said they did not keep the code? I don't remember seeing that. I have seen people say that they said this, but never seen it backed up with a link or proper citing.
When the Emu team first got together there was an effort to get all their ducks in a row legally. To that end they had a conference call with SOE, and yes Smedley chimed in on the lack of existing Pre-CU code. He also was amusingly skeptical of any private coding group's chances of recreating a backend server without that original code. His parting words were along the lines of, "Knock yourselves out trying."
Also, one of the LEC reps said that Pre-cu was not possible for technical reasons. Another SOE dev said more recently that they didn't even keep documentation on the code for Jump to Lightspeed. They had to have a team reverse engineer it to figure it out. I've referenced these statements previously with direct quotes, but don't feel inclined to dig them up again. I think the understanding of the code left SOE when some of their senior developers did, when SOE started pissing on their players, and changing the vision of the game on a quarterly basis.
Regarding, would I pay 30 bucks a month for an MMO? Nope, not a chance. I'm seeing grass-roots MMO enthusiasts working together to build their own games for each other, just for fun. Too many people have turned the MMO genre into a poorly veiled cash grab that offers very little entertainment value in return. I say, let their greed perish with them. I'm focusing my energy on open source games at the moment, mainly in a QA capacity, and I'm totally loving it.
only if enough people played besides me.
I love that game, I love what it was, but I also know how it feels to be one of four people logged in on a server.
Can you show me where they said they did not keep the code? I don't remember seeing that. I have seen people say that they said this, but never seen it backed up with a link or proper citing.
When the Emu team first got together there was an effort to get all their ducks in a row legally. To that end they had a conference call with SOE, and yes Smedley chimed in on the lack of existing Pre-CU code. He also was amusingly skeptical of any private coding group's chances of recreating a backend server without that original code. His parting words were along the lines of, "Knock yourselves out trying."
So you personally took part in this conference call and you personally heard Smedley say they no longer had the code?
When I joined the team I asked about the legality of what we were doing and was then told about the conference call. The call was recorded and I got to listen to it. I couldn't imagine anyone going to the trouble of engineering a false recording just to soothe the fears of a few guys worried about the legality of what they were attempting, so I have no reason to doubt what I heard.
So they have never admitted this publicly? Just to the EMU team via conference call?
As it is well known outside of the Emu community I would imagine that it likely is in written format from Smed sometime in the past, but that is not my source of the comment.
So in other words you have no proof this was ever said by anyone.
I'm not your personal wikipedia. If you want proof of something feel free to Google to your heart's content. I'm satisfied with what I've seen and heard concerning Pre-CU code. That Smed is a notorious liar is hardly in doubt anymore to anyone that has bothered to pay attention to the countless statements he has released on behalf of SOE.
Can you show me where they said they did not keep the code? I don't remember seeing that. I have seen people say that they said this, but never seen it backed up with a link or proper citing.
When the Emu team first got together there was an effort to get all their ducks in a row legally. To that end they had a conference call with SOE, and yes Smedley chimed in on the lack of existing Pre-CU code. He also was amusingly skeptical of any private coding group's chances of recreating a backend server without that original code. His parting words were along the lines of, "Knock yourselves out trying."
So you personally took part in this conference call and you personally heard Smedley say they no longer had the code?
When I joined the team I asked about the legality of what we were doing and was then told about the conference call. The call was recorded and I got to listen to it. I couldn't imagine anyone going to the trouble of engineering a false recording just to soothe the fears of a few guys worried about the legality of what they were attempting, so I have no reason to doubt what I heard.
So they have never admitted this publicly? Just to the EMU team via conference call?
As it is well known outside of the Emu community I would imagine that it likely is in written format from Smed sometime in the past, but that is not my source of the comment.
So in other words you have no proof this was ever said by anyone.
I'm not your personal wikipedia. If you want proof of something feel free to Google to your heart's content. I'm satisfied with what I've seen and heard concerning Pre-CU code. That Smed is a notorious liar is hardly in doubt anymore to anyone that has bothered to pay attention to the countless statements he has released on behalf of SOE.
That's kind of how I feel about this issue. I've quoted the LEC rep that said pre-cu was not technically possible, and the SOE dev that said they no longer had an understanding of the JTL code. Others have posted things they were told by SOE devs directly re. SOE being unable to work with the pre-cu code for some reason. It has all been quoted and properly cited, but probably years ago now. Digging that all up again really isn't worth the effort to me. If some folks choose not to believe it, that's fine. Skepticism doesn't usually lead to serious injury or loss of life
. Maybe it does in some circumstances, but probably not in this case.
Well it really doesn't matter because after all the subscriptions obviously lost etc Whether they have the code or can "do it" really doesn't matter.. because they haven't.
I had heard the same things about the "code not being available."
What I never actually heard was that it was 'lost". Those are two different things.
There were also at least two times someone at SOE responded with something along the lines of:
"We talk to Lucas Arts often about the furture of the game. Currently classic servers are not something that is being discussed at any level."
At the end of the day what the truth is really doesn't matter.. nor does any of this bickering.
They keep the NGE running and show little desire to do much else, regardless of what else they may or may not be able to do...
Altho I am going to honestly say I can't ever see Lucas or SOE signing over to an independent dev team. Who do you think would actually be able to run it and want to? At a subscription level it has to be someone with the ability to host servers... deal with customer support etc etc
To me that would be the even bigger question... outside of SOE trying this so they can squeeze out some more money. What company does the OP think would even be willing to do this?
((When you actually consider the resources and logistics needed if for example 100,000 people came flocking in to pay a monthly fee.. and expected a certain level of support etc for their money.. the amount of companies that can do this for an MMO isn't really a long list atm)).
Well it really doesn't matter because after all the subscriptions obviously lost etc Whether they have the code or can "do it" really doesn't matter.. because they haven't.
I had heard the same things about the "code not being available."
What I never actually heard was that it was 'lost". Those are two different things.
There were also at least two times someone at SOE responded with something along the lines of:
"We talk to Lucas Arts often about the furture of the game. Currently classic servers are not something that is being discussed at any level."
At the end of the day what the truth is really doesn't matter.. nor does any of this bickering.
They keep the NGE running and show little desire to do much else, regardless of what else they may or may not be able to do...
Altho I am going to honestly say I can't ever see Lucas or SOE signing over to an independent dev team. Who do you think would actually be able to run it and want to? At a subscription level it has to be someone with the ability to host servers... deal with customer support etc etc
To me that would be the even bigger question... outside of SOE trying this so they can squeeze out some more money. What company does the OP think would even be willing to do this?
((When you actually consider the resources and logistics needed if for example 100,000 people came flocking in to pay a monthly fee.. and expected a certain level of support etc for their money.. the amount of companies that can do this for an MMO isn't really a long list atm)).
In regards to SOE providing Pre-CU code or releasing Classic Servers you are correct. There are still several Emulation dev groups out there tirelessly working away on reverse-engineering a backend server however, whether SOE/LA wants to see them around or not.
They may well be wasting their time in comparison to the number of Veteran players willing to return to the fold, but then again after all is said and done these lowly martyrs will know far more of developing an MMO than any 22 year old entry level coder straight out of college will for years to come. Who knows, maybe one or two will wind up working for SOE and can inject some common sense from the inside.
Six months ago: yes.
Now with The Old Republic on its way? No.
Well it really doesn't matter because after all the subscriptions obviously lost etc Whether they have the code or can "do it" really doesn't matter.. because they haven't.
I had heard the same things about the "code not being available."
What I never actually heard was that it was 'lost". Those are two different things.
There were also at least two times someone at SOE responded with something along the lines of:
"We talk to Lucas Arts often about the furture of the game. Currently classic servers are not something that is being discussed at any level."
At the end of the day what the truth is really doesn't matter.. nor does any of this bickering.
They keep the NGE running and show little desire to do much else, regardless of what else they may or may not be able to do...
Altho I am going to honestly say I can't ever see Lucas or SOE signing over to an independent dev team. Who do you think would actually be able to run it and want to? At a subscription level it has to be someone with the ability to host servers... deal with customer support etc etc
To me that would be the even bigger question... outside of SOE trying this so they can squeeze out some more money. What company does the OP think would even be willing to do this?
((When you actually consider the resources and logistics needed if for example 100,000 people came flocking in to pay a monthly fee.. and expected a certain level of support etc for their money.. the amount of companies that can do this for an MMO isn't really a long list atm)).
I do not have an answer or even a speculative guess as to what company/publisher would be willing to relaunch SWG Pre-CU.
An inquiry of this nature is not the purpose of my post. Whether or not the code exists or doesn't is for the purposes of my post irrelevant,whether or not SOE/LA would sell the rights is for the purpose of my post irrelevant.
My post is simply a hypothetical "IF" and "WHAT". An excersise in speculation if you will.
The world is big place and I simply refuse to believe that a company or group of somekind,somewhere would turn down(If your example of 100 k subscribers and my 30/USD model were the paradigm) 3,000,000 USD per month in revenue.
If the opportunity presented itself for a Pre-CU relaunch....Of course.
If this pipe dream did come true?
1.Would you pay 30/USD per month to relive the experience?
2.Offer a speculative guess as to the amount of subscribers worldwide,said pipe dream may generate?
No the problem from my point of view is I can't answer your hypothetical without some data...
Would I pay $30... *starts the problem* Well that depends...
I love to sit around and dream crap up and talk about things that may or may not ever happen. However, sometimes when asked a direct question even if its a "what if" requires some data to realisticly answer.
Would I personally pay $30 a month for the game *I* enjoyed (I don't care if someone else hated it) yet...
Then you tell me as an example... that the company that currently runs Horizons (in whatever form its in) will run the servers... and now I'd say no.
If you said... Well Raph Koster has been granted the rights to run a Pre-CU server and actually produce what he had a concept of... well hell yes I'd pay $30 a month.
That's why I said sometimes details do matter even in a "what if" situation.
I'd agree that whether code exists or not.. really doesn't matter.
Yet who was going to provide this "what if" service would affect my answer... So maybe you can see why I brought it up?
*******
Personally I'm not really interested in The Old Republic.. I can already see what kind of game it will be. So that is why still Pre-CU would interest me.
I still do find it odd in an industry full of epic fails... why they have never relaunched pre-cu or had a classic server. This is what gives some teeth to the concept that code was lost.. or simply that LEC will not authorize it.
anyway /end ramble for now.