Not only has it got great games and Xbox Live, you get backward compatabilty with a great selection of older titles which are still well worth playing, and really cheap now
I've just picked up Scarface and Black, working my way through them now, makes a great change!
You only waited 5 min....give us time to see this post and respond silly!
To a point I am, they've all gone easy-mode:
Which is a good thing. More fun up front, less frustration.
Almost Entirely Solo{very few require long-term groups or they last long enough to kill one enemy and then everyone parts and goes their own way...lets stick together and get to know each other...isn't that what an MMO is about...playing together with other people!?}
I like PUG .. i don't want commitment in games. I have them in real life.
And nope .. MMO is about BEING with lots of people in the world, not necessarily PLAYING with them. I can show others my gear, i can chat, I can buy/sell from them, I can kill them in BG, I don't have to ONLY group with them.
No Death Penalties {come on I want to lose that hard-earned XP and even my levels if I screw up...will make me rethink what I did wrong or change my strategy!}
Great .. less frustration. It is not really challenging anyway .. just a time sink. If i want a real time sink, I will knit or something.
Stupid ! ? O{and other designs above NPCs heads indicating; hey come talk to me for an easy quest for mass XP so you can rush to the cap and stand around in ur L33t gear calling everyone else n00bs! Lemme find you myself by talking to all the NPCs and don't tell me exactly what to do and where to go!}
When i want to read, i read novels. I don't want reading in my games. I want hack-n-slash fun and max my gear/power. And by the popularity of all the info sites, lots of people agree with me.
Instances{fricken hell go away....the whole point of an MMO is to play together, not separate us into our own little groups away from others...make huge non-instances areas that any # of players can enter, but increase the difficulty and number of mobs the more that are in there to the point of requiring many groups to slowly work your way through.....Teamwork Please!!!}
Instances are great. EQ type take a number camping still bring back nightmare. Luckily no one is going back to the old days. It is a heck lot better to have an instance with scripts & events tuned to your group.
Plus, do I really need to see more people in a dungeon than my 10 or 25 man raid group? Not really. You don't interact with all 25 people anyway. Why do i need more?
Player/Guild Housing{stop making zones so small and confined....make huge open plains and mountainous regions that we can freely build our own homes and cities on, non-instanced and give them more purpose than just a place to display our trophies! Why can't I sleep there, or craft...or hold events for my friends/guild/random other players to get to know?}
I would rather developers spend their resources making more dungeon/adventure zones than playing housing. I cannot really do anything in them and I have a bank to house my stuff. You can always use a webpage to display your trophies .. easier to see anyway.
Exploration {again with the small confined zones, its ok to make large areas with nothing in them besides well made designs and to show off the skill of the artists making the MMO. Many of us, me included love to just set out and explore and look at things, and many times die from being stupid, "I can make that jump!"}
...and many other things..I could go on for a long time, but stopping here!
Nope .. just no. Big empty space with nothing is BORING and most will never go there without a quest or some objective. If i want to look at scenary, i buy a postcard. MMORPG is a *game*.
You only waited 5 min....give us time to see this post and respond silly!
To a point I am, they've all gone easy-mode:
Almost Entirely Solo{very few require long-term groups or they last long enough to kill one enemy and then everyone parts and goes their own way...lets stick together and get to know each other...isn't that what an MMO is about...playing together with other people!?}
No Death Penalties {come on I want to lose that hard-earned XP and even my levels if I screw up...will make me rethink what I did wrong or change my strategy!}
Stupid ! ? O{and other designs above NPCs heads indicating; hey come talk to me for an easy quest for mass XP so you can rush to the cap and stand around in ur L33t gear calling everyone else n00bs! Lemme find you myself by talking to all the NPCs and don't tell me exactly what to do and where to go!}
Hybrid Classes{Gah, go away already....I want to be a healer and support other players, not a healer that can solo the entire game without even a slight challenge and can beat the snot out of just about any mob.}
BoE, BoA{Why can't I resell my gear to other players after I'm done with it or give it to one of my alts!? So there isn't an overflow of gear make it all much harder to acquire or craft....make it worth something to have and display to others!}
Instances{fricken hell go away....the whole point of an MMO is to play together, not separate us into our own little groups away from others...make huge non-instances areas that any # of players can enter, but increase the difficulty and number of mobs the more that are in there to the point of requiring many groups to slowly work your way through.....Teamwork Please!!!}
Levels & Set Gear{get rid of them and make huge sandboxes where there isn't a mass L33t name calling competition and pissing match! Go the route of skill based and the only thing armor does for you is make ya look different, and remove the ridiculous mass stats on gear...there is no reason for a piece of gear with 20+ lines of text and stats on it. Let me earn those stats myself...}
Player/Guild Housing{stop making zones so small and confined....make huge open plains and mountainous regions that we can freely build our own homes and cities on, non-instanced and give them more purpose than just a place to display our trophies! Why can't I sleep there, or craft...or hold events for my friends/guild/random other players to get to know?}
Exploration {again with the small confined zones, its ok to make large areas with nothing in them besides well made designs and to show off the skill of the artists making the MMO. Many of us, me included love to just set out and explore and look at things, and many times die from being stupid, "I can make that jump!"}
...and many other things..I could go on for a long time, but stopping here!
Except for maybe guild housing, you just described EQ. Did you ever play it or have play it recently? I liked it except for the grindfest. I'm trying Vanguard again to see if might be better now. So far, so good, but my free month has a ways to go before it expires.
I love the MMO's I play. My advice to you: stop playing crap games just because they have good graphics, animations and are polished. Find a game that has good gameplay, balance, community, content.
You only waited 5 min....give us time to see this post and respond silly!
To a point I am, they've all gone easy-mode:
Which is a good thing. More fun up front, less frustration.
Almost Entirely Solo{very few require long-term groups or they last long enough to kill one enemy and then everyone parts and goes their own way...lets stick together and get to know each other...isn't that what an MMO is about...playing together with other people!?}
I like PUG .. i don't want commitment in games. I have them in real life.
And nope .. MMO is about BEING with lots of people in the world, not necessarily PLAYING with them. I can show others my gear, i can chat, I can buy/sell from them, I can kill them in BG, I don't have to ONLY group with them.
No Death Penalties {come on I want to lose that hard-earned XP and even my levels if I screw up...will make me rethink what I did wrong or change my strategy!}
Great .. less frustration. It is not really challenging anyway .. just a time sink. If i want a real time sink, I will knit or something.
Stupid ! ? O{and other designs above NPCs heads indicating; hey come talk to me for an easy quest for mass XP so you can rush to the cap and stand around in ur L33t gear calling everyone else n00bs! Lemme find you myself by talking to all the NPCs and don't tell me exactly what to do and where to go!}
When i want to read, i read novels. I don't want reading in my games. I want hack-n-slash fun and max my gear/power. And by the popularity of all the info sites, lots of people agree with me.
Instances{fricken hell go away....the whole point of an MMO is to play together, not separate us into our own little groups away from others...make huge non-instances areas that any # of players can enter, but increase the difficulty and number of mobs the more that are in there to the point of requiring many groups to slowly work your way through.....Teamwork Please!!!}
Instances are great. EQ type take a number camping still bring back nightmare. Luckily no one is going back to the old days. It is a heck lot better to have an instance with scripts & events tuned to your group.
Plus, do I really need to see more people in a dungeon than my 10 or 25 man raid group? Not really. You don't interact with all 25 people anyway. Why do i need more?
Player/Guild Housing{stop making zones so small and confined....make huge open plains and mountainous regions that we can freely build our own homes and cities on, non-instanced and give them more purpose than just a place to display our trophies! Why can't I sleep there, or craft...or hold events for my friends/guild/random other players to get to know?}
I would rather developers spend their resources making more dungeon/adventure zones than playing housing. I cannot really do anything in them and I have a bank to house my stuff. You can always use a webpage to display your trophies .. easier to see anyway.
Exploration {again with the small confined zones, its ok to make large areas with nothing in them besides well made designs and to show off the skill of the artists making the MMO. Many of us, me included love to just set out and explore and look at things, and many times die from being stupid, "I can make that jump!"}
...and many other things..I could go on for a long time, but stopping here!
Nope .. just no. Big empty space with nothing is BORING and most will never go there without a quest or some objective. If i want to look at scenary, i buy a postcard. MMORPG is a *game*.
Both Khrymson and Naruisseldon make excellent, well articulated points here. I can understand where both of you are coming from.
The fact is, there are different types of MMORPG players. I used to be the type that really enjoyed exploration,looking at sunsets, discovering new places, hanging out with friends, etc. I find myself still looking for a game like that but I never stick with it due to the following reasons:
I'm 20 years old now, when I started MMORPGs I was 10. I wasn't playing them to be the best, I was playing them as a virtual world. Now as an adult, I still enjoy exploring, but I don't feel comfortable investing so much committment to a game in order to have fun.
Everquest and UO were the earliest MMORPG experiences I had, and although it was great then, as a person with limited time (not 12+ hours a day anymore heh), I find myself not wanting to be punished and upset in a game. Yes, being punished for dying added to the excitement, but I don't want to spend hours just to get my corpse back so I can start having fun again. I don't want huge penalties that make me wait around and not do shit for 30 minutes. I think a lot of people feel this way, even though we miss the good ol' days of exploration and LFG, a part of us also feels like we're wasting time.
I still go back to EQ and UO everyonce and a while, and although I might have an excellent night with a GREAT group, I don't want to pay 15 dollars a month to only have 1-5 nights per week of good gameplay.
That's where WoW has succeeded (amongst also having great class balance+quality due to blizzards huge resources).
Although I want to play Darkfall, I don't know if that will be any better than what's out simply because I've been spoiled with polished games like WoW. I don't want to play half-ass produced games when I know that it's not up to par quality wise.
MMO's have gone downhill ever sence 2004... All the current day mmorpg's are crap, dont deny it we all know it...there all carbon copys with new feature X and different graphics.. a re-make of a re-make of a re-make I, for one, am going back go consoles after waiting -YEARS- for a good mmorpg.
=finds his old gamecube out of his dusty closet he hasent opened in years and puts in supermario sunshine= Ahh..supermario sunshine.. great game..great game.. beats the shit out of any mmorpg these days.
So.. with all that said, halp me buy my new console?.. sorry Ps3 fans, ps3 is out of my budget, plus i dont really like buying SOE products cause there going bankrupt.. So....poll! Also: Anybody have an estimate when the next gen consoles are comming out?
You do realize Sony =/= SOE right?
You do realize SCEJ or SCEA handle consoles and SOE handles online games?
You do realize neither Sony nor SOE nor SCEA are going out of business?
You do realize almost every company is cutting jobs because of the recession including Microsoft?
Just wanted to make sure before you spewed out any more BS.
You sound like the people going to into Best Buy asking them when they are going out of business.
"No, that's Circuit City"
"No I heard it on the news they said you're going out of business"
"No, we're not"
"Yes you are they said it on the news, why isn't everything on sale!?"
Yes I heard this the other day between a best buy employee and a customer before they stomped out in disgust. Consumers are morons.
You only waited 5 min....give us time to see this post and respond silly!
To a point I am, they've all gone easy-mode:
Almost Entirely Solo{very few require long-term groups or they last long enough to kill one enemy and then everyone parts and goes their own way...lets stick together and get to know each other...isn't that what an MMO is about...playing together with other people!?}
No Death Penalties {come on I want to lose that hard-earned XP and even my levels if I screw up...will make me rethink what I did wrong or change my strategy!}
Stupid ! ? O{and other designs above NPCs heads indicating; hey come talk to me for an easy quest for mass XP so you can rush to the cap and stand around in ur L33t gear calling everyone else n00bs! Lemme find you myself by talking to all the NPCs and don't tell me exactly what to do and where to go!}
Hybrid Classes{Gah, go away already....I want to be a healer and support other players, not a healer that can solo the entire game without even a slight challenge and can beat the snot out of just about any mob.}
BoE, BoA{Why can't I resell my gear to other players after I'm done with it or give it to one of my alts!? So there isn't an overflow of gear make it all much harder to acquire or craft....make it worth something to have and display to others!}
Instances{fricken hell go away....the whole point of an MMO is to play together, not separate us into our own little groups away from others...make huge non-instances areas that any # of players can enter, but increase the difficulty and number of mobs the more that are in there to the point of requiring many groups to slowly work your way through.....Teamwork Please!!!}
Levels & Set Gear{get rid of them and make huge sandboxes where there isn't a mass L33t name calling competition and pissing match! Go the route of skill based and the only thing armor does for you is make ya look different, and remove the ridiculous mass stats on gear...there is no reason for a piece of gear with 20+ lines of text and stats on it. Let me earn those stats myself...}
Player/Guild Housing{stop making zones so small and confined....make huge open plains and mountainous regions that we can freely build our own homes and cities on, non-instanced and give them more purpose than just a place to display our trophies! Why can't I sleep there, or craft...or hold events for my friends/guild/random other players to get to know?}
Exploration {again with the small confined zones, its ok to make large areas with nothing in them besides well made designs and to show off the skill of the artists making the MMO. Many of us, me included love to just set out and explore and look at things, and many times die from being stupid, "I can make that jump!"}
...and many other things..I could go on for a long time, but stopping here!
Old School SWG...I still miss it lol. thats water under the bridge. I do miss the mass maps and being able to go out and explor and do stupid stuff with my guildies or friends. " Hey look there is a nightsister, lets kill her" lol got owned. then crafter figured out how to make the gear better then when we go to kill one we can kill then easier but that is because the community was tight and did alot of experimenting.
FFXI has done some great changes with their lvling, you can still lvl with groups but while waiting you can do some solo grinding. If your friend gets on, he is lvl 65 and you are lvl 10. He can lvl link and still get XP and you can grind or explor with your friends. I think more game should look into this. I know there is a few others that do but i like Square enix polished it very well.
Personally I'm more fed up with mmo communities than anything. As mmos have become more popular they are being invaded by general asshats who aren't really there to play a game...but to socialize, stir up crap, and cause drama. That's their form of entertainment.
I find myself reading and watching lots of movies these days when I'm not dorking around in LotRO (which still seems immune from the degradation of the mmo community in general).
You only waited 5 min....give us time to see this post and respond silly!
To a point I am, they've all gone easy-mode:
Which is a good thing. More fun up front, less frustration.
Almost Entirely Solo{very few require long-term groups or they last long enough to kill one enemy and then everyone parts and goes their own way...lets stick together and get to know each other...isn't that what an MMO is about...playing together with other people!?}
I like PUG .. i don't want commitment in games. I have them in real life.
And nope .. MMO is about BEING with lots of people in the world, not necessarily PLAYING with them. I can show others my gear, i can chat, I can buy/sell from them, I can kill them in BG, I don't have to ONLY group with them.
No Death Penalties {come on I want to lose that hard-earned XP and even my levels if I screw up...will make me rethink what I did wrong or change my strategy!}
Great .. less frustration. It is not really challenging anyway .. just a time sink. If i want a real time sink, I will knit or something.
Stupid ! ? O{and other designs above NPCs heads indicating; hey come talk to me for an easy quest for mass XP so you can rush to the cap and stand around in ur L33t gear calling everyone else n00bs! Lemme find you myself by talking to all the NPCs and don't tell me exactly what to do and where to go!}
When i want to read, i read novels. I don't want reading in my games. I want hack-n-slash fun and max my gear/power. And by the popularity of all the info sites, lots of people agree with me.
Instances{fricken hell go away....the whole point of an MMO is to play together, not separate us into our own little groups away from others...make huge non-instances areas that any # of players can enter, but increase the difficulty and number of mobs the more that are in there to the point of requiring many groups to slowly work your way through.....Teamwork Please!!!}
Instances are great. EQ type take a number camping still bring back nightmare. Luckily no one is going back to the old days. It is a heck lot better to have an instance with scripts & events tuned to your group.
Plus, do I really need to see more people in a dungeon than my 10 or 25 man raid group? Not really. You don't interact with all 25 people anyway. Why do i need more?
Player/Guild Housing{stop making zones so small and confined....make huge open plains and mountainous regions that we can freely build our own homes and cities on, non-instanced and give them more purpose than just a place to display our trophies! Why can't I sleep there, or craft...or hold events for my friends/guild/random other players to get to know?}
I would rather developers spend their resources making more dungeon/adventure zones than playing housing. I cannot really do anything in them and I have a bank to house my stuff. You can always use a webpage to display your trophies .. easier to see anyway.
Exploration {again with the small confined zones, its ok to make large areas with nothing in them besides well made designs and to show off the skill of the artists making the MMO. Many of us, me included love to just set out and explore and look at things, and many times die from being stupid, "I can make that jump!"}
...and many other things..I could go on for a long time, but stopping here!
Nope .. just no. Big empty space with nothing is BORING and most will never go there without a quest or some objective. If i want to look at scenary, i buy a postcard. MMORPG is a *game*.
Yeah I'm done. AoC killed it for me. The hype always ends up ridiculous compared to the reality. Unfortunately SWG was my intro to MMO's and nothing since has even come close to offering all that it did, pre-nge. So I'm always looking for a game that offers the exploration, char customization, class customization, with a dynamic and robust market/economy. Even better if a game could offer all that with a proprietary IP. Don't want to be in some licenced environment where the rules are carved in stone and I'm just playing out what happened in a book or movie. Don't want SW, LoTR, Conan, StarTrek, StarGate, etc... Want to be in something new.
I blame the WoW effect which made publishers push the developing company to make a game that would be the next 'wow-killer' so instead of sticking to their vision, they tried to make something for everyone that would like and appeal to the console type player. It also made the publishers tend to favor games based on established IP's as opposed to original fare.
I'll still keep an eye on the genre, but I'm never being part of a launch again. Game's got to be out 6 months, offer a free trial, and the client should be free. If its good, I'll pay the monthly fee forever.
To everyone that responded, you sound like you just finished playing EQ or have you played FFXI!
Actually I did a brief stint in EQ and EQII as well as Vanguard last fall/winter. FFXI I put almost 4 years into and while there is more with recent expansions I dunno if I want to return again as I've seen alot already of what it offers.
No I don't work for Blizzard! If I did I wouldn't be hanging out here.....ROFL
To everyone that responded, you sound like you just finished playing EQ or have you played FFXI! Actually I did a brief stint in EQ and EQII as well as Vanguard last fall/winter. FFXI I put almost 4 years into and while there is more with recent expansions I dunno if I want to return again as I've seen alot already of what it offers. No I don't work for Blizzard! If I did I wouldn't be hanging out here.....ROFL
Well back to LOTRO and 360 later...
hehe i wasnt asking if you did, i was asking the person that replyed to the first long post.
the consoles are expected to be out in 2010 (for memory) but with delays (there will be one for each) i would say 2011, 2012 if when all the good games would come out.
Althought i cant speak for the Xbox too much (only played it at a Halo lan party with my friends) it did seem like a good solid machine. I would always say get a PS3 because it is so powerful and some of the games are just awesome but if you are on a budget grab a 360.
As for the Wii vs 360. It all depends on what kind of games you want to play. I love playing sport games on my Wii and had a blast with many of the party games (its very much a party console) but for 'real' gaming i would say the Wii leaves much to be desired.
Also dont forget that while you may be giving up now, the MMO market is attempting to move to the console market too (finally, sorry FX11 but i want more than 1 damn game) and will no doubt be a boon to most console owners and help the grind to those (like me) who would use the console for grinding and the PC for more advanced stuff ingame (crafting, dungeons, PvP).
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
To be honest, I am fed up with the CURRENT MMOs. Last one I played was AoC 7 months ago. I've been MMO clean ever since. Fortunately quite a few good non MMO PC games game out until December so I was just playing those. As for Consoles, I have boycott them since the days of Super Nintendo. Yes you can call me a fool or whatever, but I was just never one for joysticks. Additionally so many Console games are 'Run of the mill' games. Just typical.
PC non-MMO games just download play, uninstall. The multiplayer in 99% of them is quite crap anyways. MMOs are the only thing im willing to pay for since I had a good time with WoW back in the days of BC. Sure I quit because I got bored, but I had hoped AoC would be the next big thing back then. Sadly I was mistaken. AoC endgame was just too painful and boring.
There are some seemingly great MMOs in development. From that standpoint I have no question. I'm definitely going to try out Aion. But sadly most of them are too far off. Waiting till perhaps April/May for Aion is just so long.
No good non-MMO PC games have come out lately so I'm getting tempted to try another MMO game. But I dont want to invest in a new MMO since I'd only play it until Aion.
So I have the option of:
1.) Resubbing AoC (heard lots has improved and the new content patch coming soon actually sounds interesting).
2.) Buying Lich King upgrade and subbing. The more expensive option, but potentially much more longer play time.
I've been so anti WoW for the past year, but sadly I see myself having nowhere else to go for MMO entertainment .
I can't just give up on MMOs period. They are the pinnacle of video game entertainment for me. Social Interaction, PvP, PvE. No other Genre can provide all those three to the level MMOs do.
Currently waiting for the MMO industry to put out something good.
Personally I'm more fed up with mmo communities than anything. As mmos have become more popular they are being invaded by general asshats who aren't really there to play a game...but to socialize, stir up crap, and cause drama. That's their form of entertainment. I find myself reading and watching lots of movies these days when I'm not dorking around in LotRO (which still seems immune from the degradation of the mmo community in general).
hahaha yes agreed. The worst is those auto-spamming bots, telling you random websites to buy in-game gold. It makes you just wish you could PK them right then and there
Wii, 360, or wait for next gen console. If Wii and 360 are the current generation consoles then I vote to wait for the next gen console. What? Oh thats right....the PS3 has already been released.
Wii, 360, or wait for next gen console. If Wii and 360 are the current generation consoles then I vote to wait for the next gen console. What? Oh thats right....the PS3 has already been released.
Edit: And it kicks ass (needs more games though)
HAHAHAH, not gonna get more good games with the BS that Kaz Hirai has been spewing lately:
"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
Now why do ya think all the good games have been jumping ship to other consoles and not much if anything good has been getting released! hehe
I'm still not sure why the OP posted on MMORPG.com when he/she is "sick of MMOs." So move on already? I don't know....post on some console gamers site? Go PLAY some other kind of game that you DO like?
Frankly, I get sick of every genre of games if I play it long enough. When I start to have "burn out" issues, then I know it's time to switch to another game, another genre, or.....go outside and walk around the park. But if you're sick of MMOs, posting on a site that is for fans of the MMORPG genre seems.....odd.
But if you're sick of MMOs, posting on a site that is for fans of the MMORPG genre seems.....odd.
Very, but it does generate controversy and that is the primary reason many of us like to post here! Sure there are relevent questions asked on occassion, but a majority of the threads here are comparisons or doom messages!!
Idea idea... 16 bit flash based side scroller mmorpg okay..yeah maybi not, but theroticially you could put the same gameplay of X game into Y game even if they have different graphics. What ive personally seen is that mmorpg's have been too focused on graphics and have been using the same gameplay from other games that have been successfull (wow), or just trying to make a quick buck and copying everything fromo a sucessfull mmorpg (wow clone). I personally, for one, wouldnt mind a 16 bit flashed based side scroller mmorpg, aslong as it had good gameplay. Hey actually in a way it would kind of be refreshing.. no downloads.. no patches.. different graphics.. good gameplay.. no need for a 3k rig.. Sounds good to me
If that is what it has come to for you then do what I did and grab a PS2 and look at titles from ATLUS, Nippon Ichi and other small dev/publishers. May not be online but they have very good core mechanics and a nice retro feel.
As far as quality 2D animation it's hard to beat Vanillaware and their game Odin Sphere is now a greatest hits title for 20 bucks.
Get an Xbox 360 + Mass effect and Halo 3. Since all MMOs are PVE grind turds today anyway that you play solo I find Mass effect is better than most games and all MMORPGs post SWG pre-cu.
Screw the 360 - Mass Effect is on PC and Halo blows - which is cool because PC also has Crysis and Crysis Warhead (might as well pay $50 for something good.) Not to mention every other 360 game worth playing is also on PC.
Anyway, MMO's are really starting to bother me. No, scratch that - they've been bothering me for a LONG time. I just don't understand what is so hard about it to be honest. I mean, designing an MMO is EASY! At least for me. And I'm not talking about just a few ideas here and there "Oh, wouldn't be cool if you could..." I'm talking full layout for an MMO - getting into heavy game theory as to why and why not.
I'm going to be honest with you folks. i've played a lot of MMO's. If it was a big title, or ever had any sort of "real" marketting behind it - I played it.
FFXI, SWG, EQ2, WoW, AoC, CoX, Linage 2, EVE, DDO, Auto Assault, LotRO, TR, RF Online, Archlord, VG, D&L (regret admitting that one) - I'm sure I'm missing two or three but whatever.
Out of all of those games, there were only 2 that I personally thought were any good - SWG (Pre-CU) and CoX. Why?
Well, to put it as simple as I can - they were both innovative in just about everything they did. Where do I start?
Number 2
Well, CoH simply put, has, not one of, but THE best character builder out of all these games - even SWG, but it came in second. I'm not even talking about the costumes - I'm talking about the ability set up. It was just pure genius. Five classes that basically represented the 5 archtypical roles you need in an MMO. Each class has a primary and secondary role. Each role has several different methods to choose from, all of which can be mixed and matched. Each method has 10 powers to choose from as you progress. Each power has 6 levels. Never in any of the choices that you make, do you betray the purpose of your class. It was just fucking brilliant!
Add to this - the gameplay still hasn't been beat in my experience. It's the only game I've played with a classic "ability hotbar" setup, that I didn't get bored with. It really almost felt like an action game. On top of all of this, it was based on the second most awesome thing you could ever make an MMO out of - Super Heroes!
Number 1
I'm not even going to go into this, because we all know how much this game completely ruled. The character template building was the second best thing to ever happen to MMO's, but personally, I thougth CoH's was better, simply because it was more uniformed, but SWG came in a close second because of the shere volume.
It was more than that though... this game had all the right fundamental ideas in place. The problem was they just didn't work. And I don't mean they weren't correct... i mean.. they were broken, because of piss poor, lazy coding that was remade six months before launch. This game was so close... SOOOOO close. Then WoW came along and just through everything in the complete opposite direction.
These are the only two games I've actually enjoyed playing. I listed 16 up there. Only 2 were good. The others weren't even decent. Sure, a few up there worked better... but their whole design is completely stupid in the first place - so it doesn't even matter.
I'm going to hold out for Earthrise, Champions, and then SWTOR. Earthrise is really just something to hold me over until Champions. I know Champions will rock - there's just no way it can suck. But, I will lose a lot of faith in MMO's if SWTOR ends up being anythign but stellar.
I know Champions will rock - there's just no way it can suck. But, I will lose a lot of faith in MMO's if SWTOR ends up being anythign but stellar.
Oh come on! How experienced can you be and think that? I'm not saying those games won't rock, but to expect them to rock just flies in the face of experience. I'll tell you right now, SWTOR isn't going to be anything like SWG-pre-NGE. Its going to be WoW with Jedi.
Comments
Go for the Xbox360.
Not only has it got great games and Xbox Live, you get backward compatabilty with a great selection of older titles which are still well worth playing, and really cheap now
I've just picked up Scarface and Black, working my way through them now, makes a great change!
You only waited 5 min....give us time to see this post and respond silly!
To a point I am, they've all gone easy-mode:
Which is a good thing. More fun up front, less frustration.
Almost Entirely Solo {very few require long-term groups or they last long enough to kill one enemy and then everyone parts and goes their own way...lets stick together and get to know each other...isn't that what an MMO is about...playing together with other people!?}
I like PUG .. i don't want commitment in games. I have them in real life.
And nope .. MMO is about BEING with lots of people in the world, not necessarily PLAYING with them. I can show others my gear, i can chat, I can buy/sell from them, I can kill them in BG, I don't have to ONLY group with them.
No Death Penalties {come on I want to lose that hard-earned XP and even my levels if I screw up...will make me rethink what I did wrong or change my strategy!}
Great .. less frustration. It is not really challenging anyway .. just a time sink. If i want a real time sink, I will knit or something.
Stupid ! ? O {and other designs above NPCs heads indicating; hey come talk to me for an easy quest for mass XP so you can rush to the cap and stand around in ur L33t gear calling everyone else n00bs! Lemme find you myself by talking to all the NPCs and don't tell me exactly what to do and where to go!}
When i want to read, i read novels. I don't want reading in my games. I want hack-n-slash fun and max my gear/power. And by the popularity of all the info sites, lots of people agree with me.
Instances {fricken hell go away....the whole point of an MMO is to play together, not separate us into our own little groups away from others...make huge non-instances areas that any # of players can enter, but increase the difficulty and number of mobs the more that are in there to the point of requiring many groups to slowly work your way through.....Teamwork Please!!!}
Instances are great. EQ type take a number camping still bring back nightmare. Luckily no one is going back to the old days. It is a heck lot better to have an instance with scripts & events tuned to your group.
Plus, do I really need to see more people in a dungeon than my 10 or 25 man raid group? Not really. You don't interact with all 25 people anyway. Why do i need more?
Player/Guild Housing {stop making zones so small and confined....make huge open plains and mountainous regions that we can freely build our own homes and cities on, non-instanced and give them more purpose than just a place to display our trophies! Why can't I sleep there, or craft...or hold events for my friends/guild/random other players to get to know?}
I would rather developers spend their resources making more dungeon/adventure zones than playing housing. I cannot really do anything in them and I have a bank to house my stuff. You can always use a webpage to display your trophies .. easier to see anyway.
Exploration {again with the small confined zones, its ok to make large areas with nothing in them besides well made designs and to show off the skill of the artists making the MMO. Many of us, me included love to just set out and explore and look at things, and many times die from being stupid, "I can make that jump!"}
...and many other things..I could go on for a long time, but stopping here!
Nope .. just no. Big empty space with nothing is BORING and most will never go there without a quest or some objective. If i want to look at scenary, i buy a postcard. MMORPG is a *game*.
You only waited 5 min....give us time to see this post and respond silly!
To a point I am, they've all gone easy-mode:
Almost Entirely Solo {very few require long-term groups or they last long enough to kill one enemy and then everyone parts and goes their own way...lets stick together and get to know each other...isn't that what an MMO is about...playing together with other people!?}
No Death Penalties {come on I want to lose that hard-earned XP and even my levels if I screw up...will make me rethink what I did wrong or change my strategy!}
Stupid ! ? O {and other designs above NPCs heads indicating; hey come talk to me for an easy quest for mass XP so you can rush to the cap and stand around in ur L33t gear calling everyone else n00bs! Lemme find you myself by talking to all the NPCs and don't tell me exactly what to do and where to go!}
Hybrid Classes {Gah, go away already....I want to be a healer and support other players, not a healer that can solo the entire game without even a slight challenge and can beat the snot out of just about any mob.}
BoE, BoA {Why can't I resell my gear to other players after I'm done with it or give it to one of my alts!? So there isn't an overflow of gear make it all much harder to acquire or craft....make it worth something to have and display to others!}
Instances {fricken hell go away....the whole point of an MMO is to play together, not separate us into our own little groups away from others...make huge non-instances areas that any # of players can enter, but increase the difficulty and number of mobs the more that are in there to the point of requiring many groups to slowly work your way through.....Teamwork Please!!!}
Levels & Set Gear {get rid of them and make huge sandboxes where there isn't a mass L33t name calling competition and pissing match! Go the route of skill based and the only thing armor does for you is make ya look different, and remove the ridiculous mass stats on gear...there is no reason for a piece of gear with 20+ lines of text and stats on it. Let me earn those stats myself...}
Player/Guild Housing {stop making zones so small and confined....make huge open plains and mountainous regions that we can freely build our own homes and cities on, non-instanced and give them more purpose than just a place to display our trophies! Why can't I sleep there, or craft...or hold events for my friends/guild/random other players to get to know?}
Exploration {again with the small confined zones, its ok to make large areas with nothing in them besides well made designs and to show off the skill of the artists making the MMO. Many of us, me included love to just set out and explore and look at things, and many times die from being stupid, "I can make that jump!"}
...and many other things..I could go on for a long time, but stopping here!
Except for maybe guild housing, you just described EQ. Did you ever play it or have play it recently? I liked it except for the grindfest. I'm trying Vanguard again to see if might be better now. So far, so good, but my free month has a ways to go before it expires.
Ion
I love the MMO's I play. My advice to you: stop playing crap games just because they have good graphics, animations and are polished. Find a game that has good gameplay, balance, community, content.
You only waited 5 min....give us time to see this post and respond silly!
To a point I am, they've all gone easy-mode:
Which is a good thing. More fun up front, less frustration.
Almost Entirely Solo {very few require long-term groups or they last long enough to kill one enemy and then everyone parts and goes their own way...lets stick together and get to know each other...isn't that what an MMO is about...playing together with other people!?}
I like PUG .. i don't want commitment in games. I have them in real life.
And nope .. MMO is about BEING with lots of people in the world, not necessarily PLAYING with them. I can show others my gear, i can chat, I can buy/sell from them, I can kill them in BG, I don't have to ONLY group with them.
No Death Penalties {come on I want to lose that hard-earned XP and even my levels if I screw up...will make me rethink what I did wrong or change my strategy!}
Great .. less frustration. It is not really challenging anyway .. just a time sink. If i want a real time sink, I will knit or something.
Stupid ! ? O {and other designs above NPCs heads indicating; hey come talk to me for an easy quest for mass XP so you can rush to the cap and stand around in ur L33t gear calling everyone else n00bs! Lemme find you myself by talking to all the NPCs and don't tell me exactly what to do and where to go!}
When i want to read, i read novels. I don't want reading in my games. I want hack-n-slash fun and max my gear/power. And by the popularity of all the info sites, lots of people agree with me.
Instances {fricken hell go away....the whole point of an MMO is to play together, not separate us into our own little groups away from others...make huge non-instances areas that any # of players can enter, but increase the difficulty and number of mobs the more that are in there to the point of requiring many groups to slowly work your way through.....Teamwork Please!!!}
Instances are great. EQ type take a number camping still bring back nightmare. Luckily no one is going back to the old days. It is a heck lot better to have an instance with scripts & events tuned to your group.
Plus, do I really need to see more people in a dungeon than my 10 or 25 man raid group? Not really. You don't interact with all 25 people anyway. Why do i need more?
Player/Guild Housing {stop making zones so small and confined....make huge open plains and mountainous regions that we can freely build our own homes and cities on, non-instanced and give them more purpose than just a place to display our trophies! Why can't I sleep there, or craft...or hold events for my friends/guild/random other players to get to know?}
I would rather developers spend their resources making more dungeon/adventure zones than playing housing. I cannot really do anything in them and I have a bank to house my stuff. You can always use a webpage to display your trophies .. easier to see anyway.
Exploration {again with the small confined zones, its ok to make large areas with nothing in them besides well made designs and to show off the skill of the artists making the MMO. Many of us, me included love to just set out and explore and look at things, and many times die from being stupid, "I can make that jump!"}
...and many other things..I could go on for a long time, but stopping here!
Nope .. just no. Big empty space with nothing is BORING and most will never go there without a quest or some objective. If i want to look at scenary, i buy a postcard. MMORPG is a *game*.
Both Khrymson and Naruisseldon make excellent, well articulated points here. I can understand where both of you are coming from.
The fact is, there are different types of MMORPG players. I used to be the type that really enjoyed exploration,looking at sunsets, discovering new places, hanging out with friends, etc. I find myself still looking for a game like that but I never stick with it due to the following reasons:
I'm 20 years old now, when I started MMORPGs I was 10. I wasn't playing them to be the best, I was playing them as a virtual world. Now as an adult, I still enjoy exploring, but I don't feel comfortable investing so much committment to a game in order to have fun.
Everquest and UO were the earliest MMORPG experiences I had, and although it was great then, as a person with limited time (not 12+ hours a day anymore heh), I find myself not wanting to be punished and upset in a game. Yes, being punished for dying added to the excitement, but I don't want to spend hours just to get my corpse back so I can start having fun again. I don't want huge penalties that make me wait around and not do shit for 30 minutes. I think a lot of people feel this way, even though we miss the good ol' days of exploration and LFG, a part of us also feels like we're wasting time.
I still go back to EQ and UO everyonce and a while, and although I might have an excellent night with a GREAT group, I don't want to pay 15 dollars a month to only have 1-5 nights per week of good gameplay.
That's where WoW has succeeded (amongst also having great class balance+quality due to blizzards huge resources).
Although I want to play Darkfall, I don't know if that will be any better than what's out simply because I've been spoiled with polished games like WoW. I don't want to play half-ass produced games when I know that it's not up to par quality wise.
You do realize Sony =/= SOE right?
You do realize SCEJ or SCEA handle consoles and SOE handles online games?
You do realize neither Sony nor SOE nor SCEA are going out of business?
You do realize almost every company is cutting jobs because of the recession including Microsoft?
Just wanted to make sure before you spewed out any more BS.
You sound like the people going to into Best Buy asking them when they are going out of business.
"No, that's Circuit City"
"No I heard it on the news they said you're going out of business"
"No, we're not"
"Yes you are they said it on the news, why isn't everything on sale!?"
Yes I heard this the other day between a best buy employee and a customer before they stomped out in disgust. Consumers are morons.
You only waited 5 min....give us time to see this post and respond silly!
To a point I am, they've all gone easy-mode:
Almost Entirely Solo {very few require long-term groups or they last long enough to kill one enemy and then everyone parts and goes their own way...lets stick together and get to know each other...isn't that what an MMO is about...playing together with other people!?}
No Death Penalties {come on I want to lose that hard-earned XP and even my levels if I screw up...will make me rethink what I did wrong or change my strategy!}
Stupid ! ? O {and other designs above NPCs heads indicating; hey come talk to me for an easy quest for mass XP so you can rush to the cap and stand around in ur L33t gear calling everyone else n00bs! Lemme find you myself by talking to all the NPCs and don't tell me exactly what to do and where to go!}
Hybrid Classes {Gah, go away already....I want to be a healer and support other players, not a healer that can solo the entire game without even a slight challenge and can beat the snot out of just about any mob.}
BoE, BoA {Why can't I resell my gear to other players after I'm done with it or give it to one of my alts!? So there isn't an overflow of gear make it all much harder to acquire or craft....make it worth something to have and display to others!}
Instances {fricken hell go away....the whole point of an MMO is to play together, not separate us into our own little groups away from others...make huge non-instances areas that any # of players can enter, but increase the difficulty and number of mobs the more that are in there to the point of requiring many groups to slowly work your way through.....Teamwork Please!!!}
Levels & Set Gear {get rid of them and make huge sandboxes where there isn't a mass L33t name calling competition and pissing match! Go the route of skill based and the only thing armor does for you is make ya look different, and remove the ridiculous mass stats on gear...there is no reason for a piece of gear with 20+ lines of text and stats on it. Let me earn those stats myself...}
Player/Guild Housing {stop making zones so small and confined....make huge open plains and mountainous regions that we can freely build our own homes and cities on, non-instanced and give them more purpose than just a place to display our trophies! Why can't I sleep there, or craft...or hold events for my friends/guild/random other players to get to know?}
Exploration {again with the small confined zones, its ok to make large areas with nothing in them besides well made designs and to show off the skill of the artists making the MMO. Many of us, me included love to just set out and explore and look at things, and many times die from being stupid, "I can make that jump!"}
...and many other things..I could go on for a long time, but stopping here!
FFXI has done some great changes with their lvling, you can still lvl with groups but while waiting you can do some solo grinding. If your friend gets on, he is lvl 65 and you are lvl 10. He can lvl link and still get XP and you can grind or explor with your friends. I think more game should look into this. I know there is a few others that do but i like Square enix polished it very well.
Personally I'm more fed up with mmo communities than anything. As mmos have become more popular they are being invaded by general asshats who aren't really there to play a game...but to socialize, stir up crap, and cause drama. That's their form of entertainment.
I find myself reading and watching lots of movies these days when I'm not dorking around in LotRO (which still seems immune from the degradation of the mmo community in general).
You only waited 5 min....give us time to see this post and respond silly!
To a point I am, they've all gone easy-mode:
Which is a good thing. More fun up front, less frustration.
Almost Entirely Solo {very few require long-term groups or they last long enough to kill one enemy and then everyone parts and goes their own way...lets stick together and get to know each other...isn't that what an MMO is about...playing together with other people!?}
I like PUG .. i don't want commitment in games. I have them in real life.
And nope .. MMO is about BEING with lots of people in the world, not necessarily PLAYING with them. I can show others my gear, i can chat, I can buy/sell from them, I can kill them in BG, I don't have to ONLY group with them.
No Death Penalties {come on I want to lose that hard-earned XP and even my levels if I screw up...will make me rethink what I did wrong or change my strategy!}
Great .. less frustration. It is not really challenging anyway .. just a time sink. If i want a real time sink, I will knit or something.
Stupid ! ? O {and other designs above NPCs heads indicating; hey come talk to me for an easy quest for mass XP so you can rush to the cap and stand around in ur L33t gear calling everyone else n00bs! Lemme find you myself by talking to all the NPCs and don't tell me exactly what to do and where to go!}
When i want to read, i read novels. I don't want reading in my games. I want hack-n-slash fun and max my gear/power. And by the popularity of all the info sites, lots of people agree with me.
Instances {fricken hell go away....the whole point of an MMO is to play together, not separate us into our own little groups away from others...make huge non-instances areas that any # of players can enter, but increase the difficulty and number of mobs the more that are in there to the point of requiring many groups to slowly work your way through.....Teamwork Please!!!}
Instances are great. EQ type take a number camping still bring back nightmare. Luckily no one is going back to the old days. It is a heck lot better to have an instance with scripts & events tuned to your group.
Plus, do I really need to see more people in a dungeon than my 10 or 25 man raid group? Not really. You don't interact with all 25 people anyway. Why do i need more?
Player/Guild Housing {stop making zones so small and confined....make huge open plains and mountainous regions that we can freely build our own homes and cities on, non-instanced and give them more purpose than just a place to display our trophies! Why can't I sleep there, or craft...or hold events for my friends/guild/random other players to get to know?}
I would rather developers spend their resources making more dungeon/adventure zones than playing housing. I cannot really do anything in them and I have a bank to house my stuff. You can always use a webpage to display your trophies .. easier to see anyway.
Exploration {again with the small confined zones, its ok to make large areas with nothing in them besides well made designs and to show off the skill of the artists making the MMO. Many of us, me included love to just set out and explore and look at things, and many times die from being stupid, "I can make that jump!"}
...and many other things..I could go on for a long time, but stopping here!
Nope .. just no. Big empty space with nothing is BORING and most will never go there without a quest or some objective. If i want to look at scenary, i buy a postcard. MMORPG is a *game*.
lol do you work for Blizzard
There are some MMOs that I go back to whenever I get tired of a new one.
However, in the case I get tired of MMOs as a whole, I still won't resort to my GameCube!
Yeah I'm done. AoC killed it for me. The hype always ends up ridiculous compared to the reality. Unfortunately SWG was my intro to MMO's and nothing since has even come close to offering all that it did, pre-nge. So I'm always looking for a game that offers the exploration, char customization, class customization, with a dynamic and robust market/economy. Even better if a game could offer all that with a proprietary IP. Don't want to be in some licenced environment where the rules are carved in stone and I'm just playing out what happened in a book or movie. Don't want SW, LoTR, Conan, StarTrek, StarGate, etc... Want to be in something new.
I blame the WoW effect which made publishers push the developing company to make a game that would be the next 'wow-killer' so instead of sticking to their vision, they tried to make something for everyone that would like and appeal to the console type player. It also made the publishers tend to favor games based on established IP's as opposed to original fare.
I'll still keep an eye on the genre, but I'm never being part of a launch again. Game's got to be out 6 months, offer a free trial, and the client should be free. If its good, I'll pay the monthly fee forever.
To everyone that responded, you sound like you just finished playing EQ or have you played FFXI!
Actually I did a brief stint in EQ and EQII as well as Vanguard last fall/winter. FFXI I put almost 4 years into and while there is more with recent expansions I dunno if I want to return again as I've seen alot already of what it offers.
No I don't work for Blizzard! If I did I wouldn't be hanging out here.....ROFL
Well back to LOTRO and 360 later...
hehe i wasnt asking if you did, i was asking the person that replyed to the first long post.
the consoles are expected to be out in 2010 (for memory) but with delays (there will be one for each) i would say 2011, 2012 if when all the good games would come out.
Althought i cant speak for the Xbox too much (only played it at a Halo lan party with my friends) it did seem like a good solid machine. I would always say get a PS3 because it is so powerful and some of the games are just awesome but if you are on a budget grab a 360.
As for the Wii vs 360. It all depends on what kind of games you want to play. I love playing sport games on my Wii and had a blast with many of the party games (its very much a party console) but for 'real' gaming i would say the Wii leaves much to be desired.
Also dont forget that while you may be giving up now, the MMO market is attempting to move to the console market too (finally, sorry FX11 but i want more than 1 damn game) and will no doubt be a boon to most console owners and help the grind to those (like me) who would use the console for grinding and the PC for more advanced stuff ingame (crafting, dungeons, PvP).
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
To be honest, I am fed up with the CURRENT MMOs. Last one I played was AoC 7 months ago. I've been MMO clean ever since. Fortunately quite a few good non MMO PC games game out until December so I was just playing those. As for Consoles, I have boycott them since the days of Super Nintendo. Yes you can call me a fool or whatever, but I was just never one for joysticks. Additionally so many Console games are 'Run of the mill' games. Just typical.
PC non-MMO games just download play, uninstall. The multiplayer in 99% of them is quite crap anyways. MMOs are the only thing im willing to pay for since I had a good time with WoW back in the days of BC. Sure I quit because I got bored, but I had hoped AoC would be the next big thing back then. Sadly I was mistaken. AoC endgame was just too painful and boring.
There are some seemingly great MMOs in development. From that standpoint I have no question. I'm definitely going to try out Aion. But sadly most of them are too far off. Waiting till perhaps April/May for Aion is just so long.
No good non-MMO PC games have come out lately so I'm getting tempted to try another MMO game. But I dont want to invest in a new MMO since I'd only play it until Aion.
So I have the option of:
1.) Resubbing AoC (heard lots has improved and the new content patch coming soon actually sounds interesting).
2.) Buying Lich King upgrade and subbing. The more expensive option, but potentially much more longer play time.
I've been so anti WoW for the past year, but sadly I see myself having nowhere else to go for MMO entertainment
.
I can't just give up on MMOs period. They are the pinnacle of video game entertainment for me. Social Interaction, PvP, PvE. No other Genre can provide all those three to the level MMOs do.
Letting the COV sub lapse this week and going back to Morrowind for a while. MMO's truly do suck atm.
hahaha yes agreed. The worst is those auto-spamming bots, telling you random websites to buy in-game gold. It makes you just wish you could PK them right then and there
I'm waiting for a new set to come out before I give up.
(BTW you forgot PS3 which is clearly superior to both of the other systems).
Wii, 360, or wait for next gen console. If Wii and 360 are the current generation consoles then I vote to wait for the next gen console. What? Oh thats right....the PS3 has already been released.
Edit: And it kicks ass (needs more games though)
HAHAHAH, not gonna get more good games with the BS that Kaz Hirai has been spewing lately:
"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
Now why do ya think all the good games have been jumping ship to other consoles and not much if anything good has been getting released! hehe
I'm still not sure why the OP posted on MMORPG.com when he/she is "sick of MMOs." So move on already? I don't know....post on some console gamers site? Go PLAY some other kind of game that you DO like?
Frankly, I get sick of every genre of games if I play it long enough. When I start to have "burn out" issues, then I know it's time to switch to another game, another genre, or.....go outside and walk around the park. But if you're sick of MMOs, posting on a site that is for fans of the MMORPG genre seems.....odd.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Very, but it does generate controversy and that is the primary reason many of us like to post here! Sure there are relevent questions asked on occassion, but a majority of the threads here are comparisons or doom messages!!
If that is what it has come to for you then do what I did and grab a PS2 and look at titles from ATLUS, Nippon Ichi and other small dev/publishers. May not be online but they have very good core mechanics and a nice retro feel.
As far as quality 2D animation it's hard to beat Vanillaware and their game Odin Sphere is now a greatest hits title for 20 bucks.
Screw the 360 - Mass Effect is on PC and Halo blows - which is cool because PC also has Crysis and Crysis Warhead (might as well pay $50 for something good.) Not to mention every other 360 game worth playing is also on PC.
Anyway, MMO's are really starting to bother me. No, scratch that - they've been bothering me for a LONG time. I just don't understand what is so hard about it to be honest. I mean, designing an MMO is EASY! At least for me. And I'm not talking about just a few ideas here and there "Oh, wouldn't be cool if you could..." I'm talking full layout for an MMO - getting into heavy game theory as to why and why not.
I'm going to be honest with you folks. i've played a lot of MMO's. If it was a big title, or ever had any sort of "real" marketting behind it - I played it.
FFXI, SWG, EQ2, WoW, AoC, CoX, Linage 2, EVE, DDO, Auto Assault, LotRO, TR, RF Online, Archlord, VG, D&L (regret admitting that one) - I'm sure I'm missing two or three but whatever.
Out of all of those games, there were only 2 that I personally thought were any good - SWG (Pre-CU) and CoX. Why?
Well, to put it as simple as I can - they were both innovative in just about everything they did. Where do I start?
Number 2
Well, CoH simply put, has, not one of, but THE best character builder out of all these games - even SWG, but it came in second. I'm not even talking about the costumes - I'm talking about the ability set up. It was just pure genius. Five classes that basically represented the 5 archtypical roles you need in an MMO. Each class has a primary and secondary role. Each role has several different methods to choose from, all of which can be mixed and matched. Each method has 10 powers to choose from as you progress. Each power has 6 levels. Never in any of the choices that you make, do you betray the purpose of your class. It was just fucking brilliant!
Add to this - the gameplay still hasn't been beat in my experience. It's the only game I've played with a classic "ability hotbar" setup, that I didn't get bored with. It really almost felt like an action game. On top of all of this, it was based on the second most awesome thing you could ever make an MMO out of - Super Heroes!
Number 1
I'm not even going to go into this, because we all know how much this game completely ruled. The character template building was the second best thing to ever happen to MMO's, but personally, I thougth CoH's was better, simply because it was more uniformed, but SWG came in a close second because of the shere volume.
It was more than that though... this game had all the right fundamental ideas in place. The problem was they just didn't work. And I don't mean they weren't correct... i mean.. they were broken, because of piss poor, lazy coding that was remade six months before launch. This game was so close... SOOOOO close. Then WoW came along and just through everything in the complete opposite direction.
These are the only two games I've actually enjoyed playing. I listed 16 up there. Only 2 were good. The others weren't even decent. Sure, a few up there worked better... but their whole design is completely stupid in the first place - so it doesn't even matter.
I'm going to hold out for Earthrise, Champions, and then SWTOR. Earthrise is really just something to hold me over until Champions. I know Champions will rock - there's just no way it can suck. But, I will lose a lot of faith in MMO's if SWTOR ends up being anythign but stellar.
Oh come on! How experienced can you be and think that? I'm not saying those games won't rock, but to expect them to rock just flies in the face of experience. I'll tell you right now, SWTOR isn't going to be anything like SWG-pre-NGE. Its going to be WoW with Jedi.