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Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment is broke!
Agricola1
Member UncommonPosts: 4,977
CME had declined to refute many reports from former and current employees that they haven't been paid since November '08. Also Gary Whiting is allegedly involved in a pyramid scheme which involves selling SGW (he is a major shareholder in CME), he has not commented on the subject.
CME admitting a financial meltdown in December '08.
Anonymous site that popped up just before it began.
Will CME fold before SGW is released, or will they rush release to salvage some cash?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Comments
i guess its going to come down to whether MGM are prepared to help CME out.
This game is gonna sink without a trace. I gave up on the Beta ages ago. I can't decide whether it will be a shame or not...
It is too bad but the economical crisis will ram computer games too, particulary companies that doesn't have a game out and therefor are depending on investors. Companies like Mythic and Funcom at least get's in some money from their games so they have it easier but CME have no income.
Exactly,
And be frank here. This is nothing new and has even nothing to do with the economic crisis really.
This kind of thing happens all the time.
How many MMO's have been in development and canceled without even seeing the light of day these past years?
Precisely. CME with their SGW is no different.
I doubt it, but if CME liquidate someone may well buy the IP and work done on the game so far.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Sorry you need to get your facts right before saying this on a public forum, the only info you have heard or anyone has heard is from third parties. As for pyramid scheme I suggest you also do some research as the compensation plan is the same as any MLM company after I looked into it. If you know what the meaning of a true pyramid scheme is then you'll see mmoguls plan itself operates within the laws. As for a few other questional things thats another matter.
Please try not to big NOTE yourself as in the end its pointless.
Disgruntled employeees and third party information is not what I would call hard proof.
Sorry you need to get your facts right before saying this on a public forum, the only info you have heard or anyone has heard is from third parties. As for pyramid scheme I suggest you also do some research as the compensation plan is the same as any MLM company after I looked into it. If you know what the meaning of a true pyramid scheme is then you'll see mmoguls plan itself operates within the laws. As for a few other questional things thats another matter.
Please try not to big NOTE yourself as in the end its pointless.
Disgruntled employeees and third party information is not what I would call hard proof.
Well this is why I'm posting it in the rumour room. Although if you look in the second link you'll see quite clearly CME admits it has a cash flow problem and is looking for new investors. So I'm just wondering how bad that is.
About employees not being paid, when given the chance in the interview I linked they declined to refute claims they hadn't paid staff. So this only fuels the allegations from several sources that it's true. Generally when a company declines to publicly deny something like this it is true.
Your right I don't know what an MLM is or even what it stands for but a pyramid scheme is my best description. Also the company running it are situated in the same building as CME and are certain that Gary Whiting is speaking at thier conferences on selling this MLM with SGW participating. Gary Whiting hasn't made a comment either way publicly but should if it isn't true.
Only proof of anything is that CME needs new cash during an economic crisis, the rest are rumours unitl CME/Gary Whiting make a clear comment.
However there are so many sources confirming that CME isn't paying wages I find it hard to believe otherwise, and CME dodging the question when asked only lends creedence to it.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
OK I found this article click dated September the 18th. It asks CME about rumours that they're broke and planning layoffs thier response in September 18th was,
The official comment was this: "Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment is a start up, and like many start ups, we face the typical cash flow issues that all pre-revenue companies face. CME continues to fund its operations in the same way it has done for three years and the viability of the Stargate Worlds project is not in question. We fully expect to complete and ship Stargate Worlds in 2009."
and
Marketing guy Kevin Balentine assured us that large-scale layoffs are not planned, and that the company's other two projects are moving along as well.
Then the second article click dated December the 5th where another interview is conducted due to rumours of employees not being paid, this is thier response,
"At Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment, we have always been upfront with the media and our fans that we are a start-up," said Balentine. "Like many start ups, we face the same cash-flow issues that all pre-revenue companies face."
and
Balentine says the company's core investors are still dedicated to the company -- "but the new economic realities are forcing us to seek out additional sources of funding, and that’s what we’re doing."
So what's the conclusion?
Things are getting financially worse, people have been laid off since December and it seems CME isn't giving us the entire low down of the situation.
Will SGW be released? I believe so, but it will probably be rushed due to the economic climate. CME has failed to give clear answers on many rumours and has stated in thier own forums that they will not answer such questions concerning personal matters (ie, paychecks). I agree to a point but rumours about pyramid schemes if untrue need to be publicly dispelled now. Also if they've paid thier staff already (another rumour) they need to state this publicly and state what happened so that it goes no further.
CME staff have denied rumours of layoffs on thier site, tkksnow: "To answer the core of your question, no there has not been a wave of layoffs due to any financial difficulties." this month. So not a wave of layoffs but people have been leaving and talking to journalists. It kind of reminds me of what happened with SIGIL, employees leaving said similar things but people didn't believe it because McQuaid was the MMO God of the internet! But with the economic crisis and being a start up company that has cash flow problems I find it strange they wouldn't be laying off some staff, right? Probably not mass lay offs though as I doubt they have that many employees, 10 people would be a mass layoff for a company the size of CME!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
You are still reading more into their statements than you should plus the fact you are saying they should come out and mention behind the scenes stuff. The only people that should have a right to know of the monetary side of everything happening is there investors, not the general public and you should realise that.
Maybe they are having issues as all software developers do but you do not have the right to demand that information.
You are still reading more into their statements than you should plus the fact you are saying they should come out and mention behind the scenes stuff. The only people that should have a right to know of the monetary side of everything happening is there investors, not the general public and you should realise that.
Maybe they are having issues as all software developers do but you do not have the right to demand that information.
I agree the only people that have the right to some of the information is investors and executives of CME, I'm not asking them for a financial report quarter by quarter just that if they wish to dispell some rumours CME might want to let us know about what happened over the payment of staff and if they've been paid now. But you are correct I have no right to know that information whatsoever, however I do have the right to request just I understand they're under no obligation whatsoever to give it.
Perhaps you're correct and I'm reading too much into thier statements, but I'm afraid that's what happens when there isn't enough to answer my and many others questions satisfactorly. We must look at the small information we do have and draw our best conclusions, this is why I ask CME to comment concisely on the payment rumour and Gary Whiting to atleast make a statement concerning MMOGULs claims.
I agree that they are also having similar issues as most software studios go through, most MMO studios end up with cash trouble the closer they get to launch. You are correct I don't have the right to demand anything from them, I'm merely requesting straight and definative answers to straight and definitive questions nothing more. CME is in no way obliged to answer them, and they don't.
I just would like them to clear up the rumours so we can move on with the game, as it looks good from what I've seen.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
As to whether or not the employees stopped getting paid, there is this blog by someone claiming to be Aruspex, who basically confirms the lack of paychecks. A person using that name did post on the SGW boards. Of course there's no way to definitively tell if they are one and the same, and legit, but I tend to think it is, which would pretty much confirm the dire straits that CME is in.
There's also this listing, dated 22-Jan-2009 that lists what looks to be a court docket where CME is getting sued by a website design company for unpaid debt. I've not been able to find any more info on this.
Just for those that don't want to look through all the listings,
Case number: CV08-54942
Plaintiff: Kinetik I.T. Inc.
Defendant: Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment Inc.
Nature of complaint: Unpaid debt.
Attorney for plaintiff: Jonathan B. Frutkin.
Thanks for the information this is very interesting if it's for real. So not only are CME broke but they're being sued for unpaid debts? This certainly lends credence to the rumours and explains thier evasivness when asked questions on such subjects.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Just got this courtesy of Blakey, an interview with Brad Wright (one of the writers/creators of SG franchise) click.
From an interview in Janurary this year,
“7. Will you make Stargate : Worlds references in the Universe series or DVD films?”
BW: Stargate Worlds seems to be in trouble. Shame.
Brad Wright co-created Stargate: SG-1, Stargate: Atlantis, and the upcoming Stargate: Universe, has acted as an Executive Producer and Showrunner on all three, written a mind-staggering number of episodes for the Stargate franchise (many of them significant and uncredited rewrites).
I see CME galloping down diarrhea drive without a saddle right now!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
If we now accept as truth that employees stopped getting paid (which implies that they weren't just laid off--but were just not paid for work they did), then it's not surprising that CME would have a lot of creditors. Employees are typically the last people you don't pay, due to labor laws, I believe.
We can examine the timeline for other coincidences. If we take that complaint site as representing the true number of days that the employees didn't get paid, given that Aruspex's blog confirms the fact if not the length, then you come up with a date of Nov 13. Now, I take this literally, meaning that since the site was meant to put CME in a bad light, that the employees last got paid on Nov 13 (a Thursday, by the way, which is a common day to be paid). Then, three weeks later, on Dec 4, the news breaks on this, and CME issues the statement that does not deny it, and mentions that they had just completed "a successful phase of closed beta" and that the next would follow "early in 2009". So, the beta completed probably somewhere around the first missed paycheck (on Nov 27) to about a week later.
It seems strange to me that there would be "rounds" of beta at this time. After all, closed beta had only been started about 5-7 weeks earlier (previous to that, it was in a "friends & family" alpha test). This seems very short for a round of beta at this time, and I do not recall other games having such a pause in beta testing. I can only conclude that beta testing had to be suspended because they lacked the funds to pay for the hosting, and I would not expect it to resume until CME fixes their funding problem. We're just about out of Jan now, and there's been no word on this.
Given that CME is in arrears to employees, as well as others (it seems), I would have to imagine that they are seriously in debt, maybe in the millions. At this point, they would not only have to get probably $5-10 million to resume development, but also a million or two (or more) to pay off employees, taxes, and creditors. That's a pretty steep hill to climb in this economy. It's also possible that after all this time that employees have found other jobs, which means a loss of intellectual capital as well, meaning a further delay to the game as new developers come up to speed on the code. The only saving grace may be the economy, because the old employees may still be available.
Hmm theres a flow in the CME is broke plan. If cme were broke I doubt they chould pay who ever is hosting the stargateworlds.com website yet that seems fine. Also if they were broke it would mean that staff are gone yet in the sgw offical forums we see people like Nick LaMartina who is in charge of the sound in SGW who is active in that forums as well as a few other cme staff.
CME is not hosting their own website. Investigating the IP address of forums.stargateworlds.com, it seems to be owned by PureGig (http://puregig.net). It is likely that CME contracted for services and prepaid for a number of months, maybe even a year. But this is speculation (well, it all is, actually).
If you examine the posts on the forums:
I left out Nov as that was likely a "transition" month. Obviously, quite a drop. No wonder people were talking about how little new info was coming out...
It's impossible to say what is going on right now. Perhaps they found new funding and are starting to ramp up again. But it's clear to me that they pretty much shut down for the month of Dec. and the early part of Jan. And given the circumstances, I just don't buy the holiday excuse....
Edit: I did a much more extensive survey of the forums, and updated the numbers.
There's a lot more to what's swirling around CME too.
Looks like some of their people at the highest levels are mixed up in some rather shady dealings as well. Some of it you can read here. You can go sniff around yourself too and find most of this out, and much more. Lots coming out all the time, and more people getting right concerned and distancing themselves from SGW and CME entirely.
Just be careful, the fanbois are being rabid free spin doctors and apologists for the company, and will pretty much stop at nothing once they go on the attack.
Here's another court case.
The plaintiff is Chandler Freeway Crossing. There's a mention of Breach of Contract, but you can't actually retrieve the complaint. If you Google them, one of the brochures you can find seems to mention CME as a tenant of their business park.
Yet another court case here click seems this time MMOGULS and CME and affiliates are in the dock for harrasment to people and animals! Maybe Gary Whitting threatened to rape his cat if he didn't sign up as a premium pyramid scheme member?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
"Cheyenne Mountain & Affiliates" is not 'Cheyenne mountain entertainment' AKA CME
Some MMOGULS people have registered some companies with the following names
Cheyenne Mountain Games
Cheyenne Mountain & Affiliates
a hell of alot of others, the main problem here is Cheyenne Mountain is a place, and cannot be trademarked. So please take all these 'Cheyenne Mountain' companies with a grain of salt, if it doesnt say CME then its not CME and not SGW.
Now we have got past that bit, alot of these sites are springing up all over the place and are really misleading people into the sense they are in bed with the company CME, when they are in fact in bed with GW and not CME.
Its actually pretty frightening that CME havent made any comments to rebuff the mmoguls stuff, but I am pretty sure that is down to inhouse politics, whose gonna outwardly say there primary investor is misleading people into buying into a mlm scheme run by GW that has nothing more than being a shop from to sell games through one of his other companies (itzyourmall) that also has nothing to do with CME.
Everyone with common sense knows something bad is going on there for quite some time.
When was the last time we actually saw some real new info on the state of the game?
Especially because this game was suppose to be releasing within a couple months.
Says enough to me.
Sorry to say yellow but you're mistaken. A list of some registered companies owned ny Gary in the state of Nevada,
THE NOW CORPORATION
PARA MAS INTERNET, INC.
CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN PRODUCTIONS, INC.
CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN ENTERTAINMENT, INC.
CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN GAMES, INC.
CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN MARKETING, LLC
CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN AFFILIATES
ITZYOURMALL, INC.
ITZYOURMALL KIOSKS ARIZONA, LLC
ITZYOURMALL KIOSKS IDAHO, LLC
ITZYOURMALL KIOSKS UTAH, LLC
Notice Cheyenne Mountain Affiliates? He also owns the trade mark "Cheyenne Mountain" and has other companies (such as Firesky) affiliated with it. Just incase you try to wriggle around it (no offence)
Now we've got that part over with let's get on to the deniability that CME has nothing to do with MMOGULs. Gary is not only the main investor in CME, he OWNS it, it is his company full stop. He owns MMOGULs, MMOGULs has a contract with itzyourmall to Sell Stargate Worlds. Itzyourmall is owned by (look up at those businesses in Nevada again!), yup you guessed it Gary Whiting. CME has a contract with Itzyourmall to sell SGW through Itzyourmall.
So Gary is selling his CME product via Itzyourmall to MMOGULs so that it can be used in a pyramid scheme. He owns all the companies but it allows him to have less liability when MMOGULs goes bankrupt. Imagine Steve Jobs owned itzyourmall and was selling Apple macs via that to a company he owned called BYMYMAC, and it was a pyramid scheme. Is Apple involved? Yes they are, is it unscrupulous? Yes it is, would you believe the executives at Apple had no idea what was happening? No, that would be silly.
CME have said nothing as Gary has told them not to, CME staff have been alleged to have been recruiting others. Also Gary has stated he intends to use Commands ingame to recruit more people. CME know what's going on, Gary owns the company legally and financially so they do what he say. Also Itzyourmall and MMOGULS are both owned by another Gary Whiting company named Now Corporation. CME executives are involved and trying to sell this pyramid scheme, that's why they aren't denying it!
If this weren't true and GW didn't own MMOGULs they'd say it has nothing to do with them. But it's all an eloborate way for Gary to use SGW in a pyramid scheme and have a little deniability at CME. "We have no contractual relationship with MMOGULS", but they do with itzyourmall which does with MMOGULS which are all owned by the same fly by night con artist anyway! Smell the coffee man, and I don't mean the Decaf you get on the official forums!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I'd probably avoid the "pyramid" label on the MMOGULS scheme, and stick to calling it MLM (multi-level marketing) for now. MLM is legal in the US, though I''m not sure at what point it becomes not so.
This gets to a point I've begun to realize--that the standard subscription model for MMOGs is probably too restrictive, and that companies will begin to explore other revenue methods. Now, MLM is a bit on the outside of what is usually considered "ethical", but I'll withhold complete judgment.
MLM is a pyramid scheme with an earnings cap, also this MLM doesn't actually have a product to sell! It says they may provide a well known football game and MAY provide a racing car game all with no names or specifics and money will come in when SGW is launched ETA May.
So MMOGULS say launch date is May but we all know MMORPGs in better shape than this have been canceled before now right? Gary is selling you dreams and a pyramid scheme with an earnings cap, which isn't legal in every state in the U.S and probably not legal everywhere in the EU. However I'm sure this'll be popular in Nigeria and Liberia!
Aslong as you withold your cash along with final judgement you'll be fine!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I got the lowdown on the Robert Guenther vs CMA and MMOGULS case. It seems Guenther is an experienced scam artist that believes he was scammed by Gary Whiting. Went down to CME to sort it out, ended up making some physical threats and CME called the cops,
Bob Guenther escorted by Phoenix, Arizona Police and Terminated from
Mmoguls (Cheyenne Mountain & Affiliates)
After being escorted off the premises by police a restraining order went into effect on
January 5, 2009 for threats Guenther made to people at the Cheyenne Company.
The time has come to let the people know the truth about Bob Guenther and Attorney, Larry Friedman. Someone made a big mistake when they allowed them to communicate with the members of ASD. After proclaiming that he was supporting Mmougals, an online gaming company, he overstayed his welcome and was terminated after verbal attacks and threats. The local police escorted him off the premises and Cheyenne got a restraining order (we'll supply you with the document in the next email but you can find it if you look hard enough on the Internet, its public record) against Guenther on January 5th. Why??? Here's what happened.
In October 2008 Guenther met with Cheyenne Mountain CEO and agreed to purchase $100,000 of Cheyenne stock. Where was he getting this money? We'll let's see... From October 2008 to January 2009 Guenther sent many payments in small sums such as $2500, $5000 and so on, from a bank account of Jaffa Partners LP (keep reading), until it reached the sum of $60,000 by January 2009. (All other investors sent their funds in one lump sum of $100,000 or much more) According to unnamed sources, the CEO got very nervous about the way the money was arriving in such small increments, and not in one lump sum. After hearing rumors about an FBI investigation on both Guenther and Attorney Friedman regarding a certain Trust Fund, the CEO decided to wire the money back to the Jaffa Partners bank account in Texas where it originally came from which is listed below. This bank account is NOT the ASDMBA Trust fund but rather a separate account in the name of Jaffa Partners LP, a company set up by Attorney, Robert Feiger of the law Firm "Friedman & Feiger" on November 24, 2008. Attorney Robert Feiger is the "Registered Agent" on the original document. Here's the link to verify this information... http://ecpa.cpa.state.tx.us/coa/serv...ID=32038399864 We are investigating the others who are involved because money was also wired on behalf of Jaffa Partners LP to the Cheyenne Company from other banks around the country such as the National City Bank in Muskego Wisconsin. The name of the person on this bank account is David Lambert, a friend of Kath Danch, a Guenther supporter and spokesperson on his weekly conference calls. Apparently they share the same views and ethics as Guenther. Lambert wired $5,000 to the Cheyenne Company on behalf of Jaffa Partners LP. This money was also returned to his bank account (we also have this account number) in Wisconsin for the same reason. We're not sure what his involvement is or whether he and Danch are partners in Jaffa but we're looking into it. More on that later!!!
The name and address of the bank used by Jaffa Partners LP to wire the funds to the Cheyenne Company is...
United Community Bank
Highland Village Branch
2100 F. M. 407
Highland Village, TX 75077
(972) 317-9935
We have the bank account number but we will withhold it at this time. We also have the account for the ASDMBA Trust which is the Sterling Bank, Dallas Branch. We will also withhold the bank account number until further notice. And by the way, The ASDMBA Trust is not registered with the City, County or State of Texas. It doesn't have to be registered but why wouldn't it be registered if they had nothing to hide. Our investigator has verified this information and you can also verify it by calling the county clerk in Dallas. David Bruce Jenkins, Guenther's best friend, as Guenther has claimed, is listed on the bank account that bears the name ASDMBA Trust.
David Bruce Jenkins
1836 Leath Street
Dallas, Texas
When a person constantly criticizes others as Guenther does, they are actually looking in the mirror. Guenther has repeatedly accused many others of being scam artists and the reality is that we should have been looking at him and his friends all along.
Here are some legitimate questions people are asking...
* Where did the $60,000 come from to invest in Cheyenne stock and where is it now? Did they move it yet?
* Is it the money from the ASDMBA Trust?
* How much money was raised for the Trust?
* Who are the Trustees? (rumor is that Friedman and Guenther along with Guenther's Family and best Friend are Trustees. What a
surprise) Dan and Pam Richardson were original trustees and we don't know their status at this moment but we will soon.
* Why is there NO accounting of this money?
* Is Guenther or anyone receiving a Salary or any compensation from the Trust? (Did he and his family drain the funds?)
* Has he or anyone ever received a salary or compensation from the Trust?
* If they are receiving a salary, who authorized that?
* If there is no money left in the Trust, as stated by Guenther, how do we get standing in the Court in Washington since ASD has lost
or given up their efforts in the case?
* Are Friedman and Guenther trying to get control of the $93 million dollars forfeited by ASD? (We believe this was their intention all along.
Guenther told a few people recently that this was his intent along with starting and/or investing in another company with the funds)
Since we have the bank account number of the ASDMBA Trust and we know that David Jenkins is the only person authorized to sign checks, as verified by the bank, we should be able to find out the truth very soon. Guenther has stated several times that David Jenkins bought stock in Mmoguls (on tape) so it seems a little suspicious that they agreed to purchase $100,000 of Cheyenne stock in October. (Less than 3 months after beginning to raise funds for the retainer for ASDMBA) Where did the money come from, when previously Gunther seems to have lost everything from his "auto" businesses due to mismanagement and finally a bankruptcy. This happens to be the exact amount ($100,000) Friedman insisted upon as his retainer. Of course they will make up some lie or excuse when confronted. Remember, Guenther was convicted of lying in his Bankruptcy trial and consequently lost the case to the Caddle Company. He still owes them a large sum of money and they are willing to assist in any way they can.
What is Attorney Friedman's Involvement with Bob Guenther and Dan and Pam Richardson?
In August 2008, Larry Friedman was introduced by Guenther and the Richardson's to members of ASD via a conference call where Friedman spoke, we are told, to approximately 2,000 people. He said he would do several things if we were to hire him as the attorney for the ASD members. These four things are recorded on tape and can be verified.
Attorney Friedman agreed to...
1 support Andy Bowdoin in his battle with the AG (Friedman claimed that the Gov't did a sloppy job in their investigation)
2 help prove the business model of ASD. (he stated that the model worked and was a great way to advertise business)
3 get us standing in the court in Washington. (he claimed he had the ability to work in the courts in Washington)
4 help get our money back in the event that ASD lost the case. (he told us that the money belonged to us, the members)
Our belief in Friedman's professed expertise and his claim that he would help us because he had defeated this very AG's office in the past, along with the endorsement of both Guenther and the Richardson's, was the determining factor that led us to the decision to hire him as our attorney to support our efforts. After thousands of dollars were collected, Friedman stopped getting on our conference calls and Guenther began to bash ASD and Andy. Without anyone's approval, they decided to take a different course of action. They began talking about supporting the Gov't in its efforts to go after ASD Members. They turned against the business model and worst of all they didn't notify anyone of this change which is legally, morally and ethical wrong. We should have been given the chance to have our money returned if they were no longer supporting our cause. A lawyer can NOT decide to help the prosecution after agreeing to take any case. It appears that there were many violations on his part (we will send a document in the next email) Many ethical codes have been abused and the victims are you and the rest of the ASD members. We have NO accounting of the money. No one has actually seen the Trust that we can verify. We can NOT get a standing in the court because Guenther says the money is gone. Where did it go?
Furthermore, both Friedman and Guenther began communicating with William Cowden, from the AG's office in Washington and supplying Cowden with names of people to go after in ASD. They tried to convince Cowden that Friedman was the most logical choice to be appointed the Receiver of the $93 million dollars. Guenther has bragged that he is on a first name basis with "Bill" Cowden and that he and Friedman were now supporting the AG's in their effort. All of this is masked by the fact that Guenther claims that they are helping us get our money back from the Gov't. They are going after similar companies as well as ASD members who made money. He is using a very effective tactic called "misdirection". It is what magicians use to trick you. They get you to focus your attention on one thing which actually masks or prevents you from seeing the truth. It's very clever and calculated but Guenther has miscalculated the power of the people who he is trying to deceive. Coming from a long history of magic we have been watching this very closely over the past several months and have been waiting for him to trip up. After all, he's not a magician. He's just a "Want to Be Big Shot" who has lost all of his businesses over the years and is now living off of his wife's income to support himself until he was able to figure a way to get money from the ASD people.
He was terminated from Mmougals for threats made to people at that company and he never even paid the $250 entry fee to Mmougals to begin with. This guy tries to scam everyone he comes in contact with. He has now put his family at risk because an investigation, now in progress, will reveal his true intent. By the way, you should ask him to supply you with the documents or proof that he was a helicopter pilot in the military. He lied about that to everyone. We searched those records as well. People with low self esteem, will always brag about how accomplished they are, when in reality it is usually a figment of their imagination. This is the case with Guenther, a small man in stature, 5 feet 3 inches; at least it looks that way, with a very big mouth.
There's much, much more to talk about. A very large group of people have already filed complaints with the Texas Bar about Attorney Friedman. Why Friedman??? He was the attorney we entrusted our funds to from the very beginning. He's the attorney that agreed to help us and has done nothing. Guenther is NOT an attorney. We would not have sent a dime without the sales pitch to hire Friedman and get a retainer of $100,000 just to start the case. (We have contacted several Law Firms and discovered that a case like this would have required only $25, 000 as a retainer)
We have been lied to about the true intentions of both Guenther and Friedman and we are doing something about it. Apparently there is no money in the Trust to file our claim in Washington. Remember, after getting our money this attorney decided not to show up anymore and for those that requested refunds, very few people actually got their money returned. We need an accounting of this money and we need it now. Of course, Guenther will tell you different but the Texas Bar will disagree. The Bar will look into Friedman's involvement and ask him why so many people are filing complaints. Many have already done so. and we expect it to be 500 by February. Guenther will come out with all kinds of threats after he reads this, trying to stop you from filing the complaint with the Texas Bar, telling you that he and Friedman will sue you.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. He is as fictitious as the Wizard of OZ, who pretended to be a powerful man by scarring everyone with verbal abuse and scare tactics just to keep them from discovering the truth and the truth is... he is nothing but a blow hard that has no authority at all but uses misdirection to keep you from the truth. Don't be afraid, he can no more help you or hurt you than the Wizard himself. We have finally drawn back the curtain and now see the real man behind it and as you might have guessed, he's nothing but a weak fraud.
The first step is to get involved and help each other by filing a complaint with the "Texas Bar" as many are doing. Here's how to do it....
1 Go to www.texasbar.com
2 click on the "Contact Us" tab at the very top of the page, its small so look hard.
3 fill in your information
4 select SBOT department "Attorney Referral" You must select one in order to send.
5 In the subject line type... Urgent...Attorney Misrepresentation??? Use the question marks
6 in the Question/Comment area, type in a short description such as "We hired Attorney Friedman to help us in our efforts in a law suit
and he turned against us and began helping the prosecution". You may use the things that Friedman promised us, listed above but do
NOT tell your full length story here. It's not the place to make the official complaint.
7 In that same box make sure you end your statement/statements with this question...How do I file a complaint against Attorney
Larry Friedman? Where can I find the form? This is important because using the "Contact Us" tab is NOT the official complaint.
8 MAKE A COPY OF YOUR COMMENT SECTION AND NOTE THE DATE AND TIME SENT.
9 Here's the phone number for the Texas Bar in Austin... (800) 204-2222 it wouldn't hurt to flood the office with complaints
Remember, this is NOT the complaint form. You will fill that out later. This is a comment and question area only but we need to let them know and make sure we get the official complaint form. This is just the first step and we intend to keep the pressure on for as long as it takes.
This is just the beginning for these two characters and their team of bandits. I tell you this because it's time to stop them from fooling people with their lies and taking more of your hard earned dollars and give an accounting of the funds in the Trust. Guenther and Friedman had no intention of helping you get your money back. They were after the Receivership of the $93 million dollars that was frozen in August. They still plan to get their hands on that money and I promise they will exhaust the funds as they claimed other Receivers would do by lining their pockets with millions, and if there is anything left we may see some money a few years down the road but don't count on it. He told us in the very beginning that all the money is used up when they appoint a Receiver. What we didn't figure is that they, Guenther and Friedman, wanted to be the Receiver and get their hands on the $93 Million Dollars.
These two people should be trying right now to get our money back but instead they claim there are NO funds left and the only course to take now is have Friedman appointed as the Receiver and we are NOT going to let this happen. And if we discover and prove that these funds were used for anything other than the ASDMBA Trust then we will pursue action that will help put all of them in jail including the family members, David Jenkins, and original trustees Dan and Pam Richardson. We mentioned the Richardson's briefly above but these two people were very active in getting Larry Friedman hired by the members and in fact our investigation shows that Larry Friedman represented them in a case years ago. As soon as that information is examined thoroughly we will reveal the details of that as well.
It's been said by many people that Friedman, Guenther and the Richardson's raised close to $200,000 for the Trust and all of it is now gone. How much more are they going to take from these ASD members? This is one family that will not allow this, even if we have to hire a Lawyer ourselves against these unethical people. We have already spoken to a few lawyers in Dallas who by the way, have very little respect for Friedman and his firm.
Our investigation continues and we will let everyone know what we find. We are very aware that Guenther, Friedman, his partner Robert Feiger and Dan and Pam Richardson will not be happy but we have been unhappy for six months now, and it's time to let the world know what these people are up to and it's time to do something about it before it's too late. Fill out the form on www.texasbar.com and follow the instructions above and then get the proper documents filled out for the official complaint and MAIL (standard mail, US Postal Service) to the address at the end of the form. But make sure you complete the first step stated above. It's important to let the Bar know ASAP that Friedman has acted unethical and is hiding behind Guenther. The more contact we have with the BAR the faster they will act. so, make sure you do both things...
1- Fill out the form on the "Contact Us" section of http://www.texasbar.com/
2- get the Official form and physically mail it via the US Postal Service
Watch for the next correspondence to get a copy of the violations that Attorney Friedman has committed along with the Restraining Order/Harassment documents on Guenther. We will keep you posted on the progress of this matter but first things first...
File your complaint NOW before it's too late!!!
The Lone Ranger
Protector of the Innocent
An interesting read, I like the Jaffa company a very nice touch!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis