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Should Jedi class be a non-starte unlockable proffession?
Agricola1
Member UncommonPosts: 4,977
As the title said, I don't want a game full of them! Also Jedi should have a TEF when pulling out a lightsaber even.
Jedi in my opinion should be only unlkockable by an unkown set of parameters, and then they have a tough time after that.
{ Mod Edit }
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Comments
Well your post sounds a little hash on the retared part (you might want to change that).
But I too think it should be a unlockable class. It would fit the storyline a lot better.
Altho there were many jedi's in the old days.... still you had to have the gift and it was an extensive and very long hard training to even become a jedi... many even fail the trials.
But then again... it ain't gonna happen. The game is based on KOTR game series, so they want you to be Jedi from the get go.
Add to that, that the game will be very linear, restrictive, almost pure solo focussed with very little group oriented content, no real crafting and very instanced (due to story progress)...
... it will become more like a Single player Online RPG game with a chatbox slapped on top of it.
So I have basically already given up on waiting for a good SW MMO to ever come out.
This isnt SW the movie timeline where jedi where extinct and Sith only had two.
As for a unlockable questline, sure as long as its fun not harsh im for it.
But putting in a hard grind and severe penalties in upkeeing a jedi class then no, it basicly only favours the hardcore and the kidds that live in there mother basement who have all the time to play.
Since grownups work, have less time, and play to have fun.
7 year old retarded mindset people on the other hand will have more time to play and will get that jedi class anyway even if you put in harsh elements in it, so basicly it wont solve your problem, unless you want to force a "put your ID card" so they cant roll jedi
/agree
i too predicting a linear, restrictive gameplay and given up on a good SW MMO.
where's all those epic space battle ffs. i want to command a calamari cruiser goddammit.
I find there is much heresy being spoken here today talk of "linear" and "instanced" also there are many of the casual play infidels among us! The Casual play infidels speak of solo centric gameplay focusing on thier 30 mins of pve grinding, well I say no!
No to the darkside, no to a step backward in to the age of wickdness! We Brothers and Sisters of the open sandbox enviroment that believe in a Jedi class that isn't handed to you on a plate mush band together. We must take the casual play infidels that wish Jedi to be given to them and burn them until thier fire brings back light to the MMORPG world and light to SWtOR!
I see no value in a Jedi class handed to you, just the same as everyother. So that all we end up with is an army of saber jerks around every corner ingame (unless it's heavily instanced of course!). Let it be a class that needs to be unlocked and you need to train in solitude and no NPC trainers only player masters that train? Make GMs Jedi at first for the first few to get training. Then initiate a Bounty Hunter system where Bounty Hunters can track and kill those with a price on thier head.
Anything less would just be utter wank!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I'd rather the game be more faithful to the IP rather than another re-hash of Raph Koster's flawed vision.
With the exception of Luke (who was a teenager I might add), *all* Jedi depicted in the films started as children. All of them. Heck, even Anakin, "The Chosen One" was almost turned down at the age of nine... for being too old. And this game is set in an era three thousand years prior to the movies, when both Jedi and Sith flourished.
It doesn't make a lick of sense for Jedi to be anything but a vocation one begins upon character creation... unless you're proposing we all begin the game as infants.
You want a sandbox sci-fi game without Jedi? I suggest you check out EVE Online.
HERESY! How dare you speak of Koster, saint of sandboxes! Clean your wicked mouth you vile infidel!
I'm not saying adhere strictly to the movies (George Lucas didn't!) but make a Jedi an achievment rather than just another proffesion. Put some mystery in there.
As for EVE online it's more like a vacum than a sandbox and the wicked CCP have sold thier souls to the darkside when privateers won EVE!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
It should have an extremely long and complex questline so that only the top 5% of the population can be a Jedi. Having everyone run around as a level 1 Jedi with a lightsabre would just kill the lore stone dead.
Agreed and your character needs to meet a set of unkown parameters to unlock that questline. Also no levels please, having players running around with a level floating over thier heads is just plain gay!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Actually since this takes place more than 3500 years before the movies and there are thousands of Sith and Jedi at this time it would not kill the lore to be starting as Jedi or Sith. However, I can't find it now, but I remember reading that the plan is that you will be able to start as a Jedi or Sith but that you will have to go through training on Korriban (Sith) or Tython (Jedi) before entering the rest of the galaxy.
You're right but I do like the idea of you having to do some training a certain places to enter society, maybe jedi get a TEF to all when they pull out thier saber? Making it a bit tougher to be a Jedi?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I think bioware knows how to work jedi into a story by now, if you payed either of the kotors you know that jedi are not all powerful. The movies back up that thought a lot, yes they got a lot of dex running for them but that doesn't make them invincible. I think we will see a lot of vibroblade useage before getting to make that first lightsaber along with quests to do it.
also the child thing is more of a new republic era thing, research the back history far enough you will see that the age thing was added in because to many jedi were going dark. The idea became to get them young and brain wash them. Anikan is kind of a rehashing of this we don't teach old folks line. As to the rest your dealing with a time of echani combat arts, mandalorians still running around doing fairly good for themselves, and a lot of sith.
As to the do a bunch of unseen preset stuff, you sound like your longing for the old days of SWG's. If you make sith and jedi and elitist class then your going to make them into godlike chars that get annoying quick. They have sever armor restictions in KoTor, if you don't wear robes you can't do half your force moves. So think of them in mmo terms as a sword weildling wizard.
Not so you can flame me, I solo, I solo a lot, I've soloed since I started playing on EQ. I solo cause I can, cause I am good at it, and cause it is a test of my skill. In my opinion it is the only way to test the full extent of your class.
Hmmm.... no.
At first I was thinking, yes, it would be acceptable as long as once you unlocked the force wielders as a class that they wouldn't be any more elite than the other classes; I figured making the class an unlockable would make the class less appealing, but no, then I thought more about it. If you make the class an unlockable, they're simply going to make the class feel more elite than it is, even if it is on the same balance level of other classes. In the long run, making the class limited will simply make it more popular; low at first, high in the long run. However, if you put it out to the public at the start, and it's pretty much the same as all the other classes in terms of balance, I'd believe it's going to be flooded with the class at first, but in the long run, shrink to the size of all the other classes, if not hopelessly a little higher. There really isn't any sort of way of making the classes numbers as low as others; they will be the most popular, without a doubt. What else do you expect from a SWs video game?
I just hope to God that they realize unlike some people here that you cannot make one class or another "elite" in an MMO. It simply spells catastrophe... good thing though that they seem to realize that.
EDIT: I'm going to basically sum up my feelings on the subject in a short couple of sentences here. They're in a lose-lose situation. Either suffer lore issues or suffer major gameplay issues; I prefer the first of the two.
in swg, yes i would have said it should have remained very very rare, in fact i dont think they should have introduced jedi at all, it does not fit the timeline. But in KOTOR, yes and no. Force sensitive beings were alot more common than post KOTOR, but i think the road to a full fledged jedi should start out as force sensitive and then worked upwards to jedi.
No,
Look I understand where your comming from but honestly any MMO backed by a major company (eg bioware) is going to attract all sorts of idiots and weirdos, espcially since its Star Wars. If you plan on playing a major mmo anymore you have to accept that piece of the community.
Also this is NOT going to be star wars galaxies, pre-NGE so dont expect that.
Now I do think that jedi should be harder to play in it's early stages. Or they make all the classes balanced. I dont want jedi's to be super uber.
I have faith in bioware though, they usually do a good job so I'm going to expect good things from them.
I think they should be starter classes, with specializations/prestige classes later down the road. This should not just be something for the jedi/sith but for all classes. The challenge, imo, should come from within the game. For example you start off as a jedi but if you do not act like a jedi your powers start diminishing and you lose access to some quest lines and cannot acheive a prestige class until you get right with the force
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
I don't agree to this at all. If I am going to play a Star Wars game I sure as hell better be able to play a Jedi/Sith. If not it will be like any other game out there. At least let it be like every other game out there with lightsabers.
Since we all know this is going to be a linear game anyway, I could see Bioware starting the game off much like Fallout 3. You are born into this world and later found to be a force sensitive and are thus sent for training. Hell they could even show progression through avatar age while running the trials.
If AoC can lock people into the starting zone for 20 levels so can TOR.
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You wouldn't understand
Casual play infidels? Well god damn, sorry that some of us have a life and cant sit and play computer games day and night. Some of us that play MMO's have a life, family, a job even (hard to fathom i know). I play MMO's to escape, I like being able to log in for 30 minutes of spare time and finding something to do. I agree that there are hardcore players out there, ones that have a job and a life that allows them to get real into a game, but face it, the majority of players are casual (hence why WoW is so successful). Also, I take great offense to you saying that people 'turn into retards when they get a lightsaber' or something to that effect. Take all the shots you want at me, but mentaly handicapped people most the time do not have the choice, that is who they are. (I say most the time, because sometimes it is their fault with drugs and the such)
So, how about instead of being part of the asshole population here try being different, word your posts a little better, and dont call people retarded/gay just because you dont like them. You really will get further in life.
one Jedi will be a playable character like the Sith will be. The character will be force sensitive and you will choose your side. I dont understand why people put so much power into being a jedi or sith they can be killed. Grevious killed alot of them and so did jango fett so stop all this crap and accept JEDI WILL BE PLAYABLE!
I agree with Locklain, what the hell is the point of playing Star Wars then? Also, this isnt SWG, time line obviously plays a role. For the most part there is no reason for anyone to cap the amount of Jedi in this game. The assumption is, there are going to be a ton of Jedi. Well, that would really depend on the other classes and races in this game. If they have Mandalorian Warriors, you can be damn sure Im going to be one and will kill all you Jedi/Sith wussies. =P
Bioware has a big task in front of them and that is Parity. They are going to have to bring parity to this game and they have to do it with all the races/jobs. Its an easy selling point to use Sith and Jedi. But it would be completely naive of Bioware to not bring other classes and races into this game... And not have them be able to kill jedi/sith.... If that is the case the game failed the moment that decision was made. Which I dont believe.
Also, another problem that Bioware is going to have is the Solo/gouping issue. A lot of people are under the impression that if its Story Driven then it must be a soloable game. Which couldnt be farther from the truth. All the games that I have played that have been story (PVE) have been completely group oriented and made me absolutely sick! They need to be able to cater to the type of player they may or may not have. For instance, the poster above apparently has a life right? If so, soloing would need to be a factor and if the poster is available on the weekends, they should be able to group as well. For the completely immersed player that does not have a life, they would want to be able to group as much as possible. But this should not hamper there ability to be able to solo (AKA Forced Grouping). Force grouping makes it hard to do anything with out a group. Being dependant on other people in the game is great but not when it starts to hamper your ability to progress in game. That leads me to my next topic.
Progression is the name of the game and if they can get that right, more people would be happy. I have a hard time seeing this game as a completely solo based game. Especially, when they have said that you can do missions with your friends. Also, do some PVP/RVR with them as well.
For those of you who haven't played Knights of the Old Republic, and haven't read the backstory regarding this game, let me try to clarify a couple of things.
It's not Jedi versus Sith, it's Republic versus Sith. And Sith aren't exclusive to a handful of Master/Apprentice Force-wielding individuals you're accustomed to from the movies, anymore than the Republic is exclusively all-Jedi. The Sith are a political faction. This includes a conventional army, civilians, and so forth... just like the Republic.
Two words: absolutely not
This game is NOT SWG... and God willing it will be nothing like SWG!!!
This game is about the war between the jedi and the sith... which means that it should be full of JEDI and SITH. Doing otherwise would not make sense... or be fun.
Why do people keep bringing up these tired old game mechanics from that utter failure of a game SWG? It didn't work there, it won't work here. That game is the last place anyone should be using as inspiration for game design concepts.
Those of you who are desperately holding on to some glimmer of hope that this game will be old school SWG all over again (you know who you are), GIVE UP NOW!! You have no hope... go find a new game.
I would rather Jedi not be some unlockable class...they will undoubtedly be extremely popular. So I'm looking forward to see what Bioware does to make the rest of the classes enteresting. Or at least make Jedi diverse where you can spec them in different ways...like Healing force sensitive,Nuker,melee so on.
My biggest concern will be more the imbalance of Jedi VS Sith or good vs evil...We seen how Warhammer went in the beginning. Chaos extremely out numbering Order. I'm not sure if everything ever balanced out there or not.
Casual play infidels? Well god damn, sorry that some of us have a life and cant sit and play computer games day and night. Some of us that play MMO's have a life, family, a job even (hard to fathom i know). I play MMO's to escape, I like being able to log in for 30 minutes of spare time and finding something to do. I agree that there are hardcore players out there, ones that have a job and a life that allows them to get real into a game, but face it, the majority of players are casual (hence why WoW is so successful). Also, I take great offense to you saying that people 'turn into retards when they get a lightsaber' or something to that effect. Take all the shots you want at me, but mentaly handicapped people most the time do not have the choice, that is who they are. (I say most the time, because sometimes it is their fault with drugs and the such)
So, how about instead of being part of the asshole population here try being different, word your posts a little better, and dont call people retarded/gay just because you dont like them. You really will get further in life.
I accept your gracious apology. Also with the economic crisis and mass layoffs they should keep hardcore gamers in mind as we're a growing element! I have a family, and am self employed working from home, also sleep is for the weak. I know I'm a hardcore sado but hey that's just the way it is!
The casual infidels should be given thier own PVE grind dungeons I'm not denying them that! Even an infidel must be kept ammused and solo so that they can't group together and pose a threat to the rightoues! Also I said "as soon as an adult male gets hold of a lightsaber his IQ immediately drops until he has a mental age of a socially retarded 7 year old" so I was reffering to everyone hardcore and casual alike. Also I said "socially retarded" so please don't jump to conclusions and misquote me. I apologize however if you were insulted by the word retarded, I didn't know.
I apologize for having no life and being an SWG vet that is excited about SWtOR, but this is the time to get your opinion out before alpha even when they're making big decision. If Jedi isn't an unlockable proffesion I'll still give it a try as it's Bioware and they aren't a bunch of spastics!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Wow this guy isnt a fanatic....nope...not at all....
Wow this guy isnt a fanatic....nope...not at all....
Says the guy with the Anakin avatar.