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Beta Testers - stop 'lying' to Aventurine
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After UO collapsed did your world fall apart, and you went into this wild, drunken rage of getting your ass kicked in pool halls?
Now you want to foucs all this rage on ganking lowbies in Darkfall? Assuming, of course, your not in jail for the 15th time for getting yet another scar on your face.
LOL. Great stories. Keep 'em coming. I'm sure someone believes you.
Thank you.
Your post is incredibly helpful to MY argument!
This made me laugh though:
"When the bodies of the newbies gets too high...
We'll turn on each other. Then the red wars begin. ..."
The 'funny' thing about '1337 PvPers' is that when they are forced to feed on each other... the game stops being fun. See PotBS.
Yeah, I'll even double post.
You think its a BAD thing to feed on each other? You think that makes the game NOT fun? You're just another carebear. This isnt PotBS. This is Ultima Online Refuge. This is "I'm a sociopath and I hope you die in real life from bone cancer for taking my leather leggings. Now tell me where you live so I can put you down".
This is the bad time.
This is Sparta.
Maybe it stops being fun for you. In that case, let us know when you cancel your sub. I'll crack a beer over it. One less fly on my gore-covered battleground.
More like "This is where I get to pretend I'm big and bad, because in real life I couldn't kick a gnats ass even with its permission.".
Whats funny is he sounds like a friend of mine who thought he was all big and bad after boot camp. He had that strange military mindset, that army of one thing, where he felt because he carried a gun at one point he was all big and bad. He would always use that mindset as a fear tactic when around others; sort of a 'Dont mess with me, I'm a GI...' aura.
Long story short, Sgt. Finn (6' 1" , 201lbs of muscle and years of training) got his ass handed to him by his little sisters 19 year old, 5' 7" 160lbs beanstalk chem major boyfriend.
That's more or less the same story. After the Army, I was actually in shape, and put on muscle. Since then, its been a free for all at the pool halls. Getting my ass kicked doesn't bother me. You tend to learn the phrase "Shit happens." in the real world. Making an intellectual point is cut and dry on the internet. Making a physical point is much more chaotic and unpredictable.
So that doesn't bruise my ego. I'm not a tough guy. I'm not invincible. I get hit just as hard as anyone else does. I simply don't care.
Seriously,this is getting embarassing to read,please stop.
this zios guy is a hoot, delusional, but a hoot
Naw, I want to see if he will tell us if he is the CEO of some fortune 500 company. They're known for getting into all kinds of pool hall fights. You know, cuz, that's what successful people do in the "real world".
We have a canidate for the next season of the Tool Academy right here.
I typed out a long retort to this, but deleted it once I realized how pointless it was. PM me some time, we'll talk more at a later date.
..And there isnt anything wrong with ganking lowbies, so long as they have good gear. Nothing pissed me off more than another long count for a sewing kit.
The OP was going on about how the beta leak videos show players more or less getting along and hunting side by side. The OP basically said that this is false, and that the beta testers should go about their carnage mongering ways and show the players what the game will REALLY be like. The OP complained about population imbalances on other, more faction orientated games and how it FUBARed launch. We had a little bit of talk about gank fests, 100 people overrunning the newbie towns because of weak guard towers, etc. Basically, the OP went on about things that aren't going to effect a game centered around balls-out PvP combat.
Then I ranted, and it went on from there.
Nice summary.
Yeah. From what I have seen and read the Beta Testers are not being honest.
They are playing 'nice'.
What the Developer needs is to see how the players are really going to play when the game goes live.
Based on that they can adjust the game as necessary. Maybe the game is fine as it is? If so, that's good.
But, it seems to me that if the game is working now - with the Beta Testers PLAYING NICE - then the odds are it will not work when they start PLAYING FOR REAL.
They will not be the first developers to be caught in this trap.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
I'm not one to pass on good stories. PM incoming.
Although, I think that was a thinly veiled internet tough guy threat.
The OP was going on about how the beta leak videos show players more or less getting along and hunting side by side. The OP basically said that this is false, and that the beta testers should go about their carnage mongering ways and show the players what the game will REALLY be like. The OP complained about population imbalances on other, more faction orientated games and how it FUBARed launch. We had a little bit of talk about gank fests, 100 people overrunning the newbie towns because of weak guard towers, etc. Basically, the OP went on about things that aren't going to effect a game centered around balls-out PvP combat.
Then I ranted, and it went on from there.
Nice summary.
Yeah. From what I have seen and read the Beta Testers are not being honest.
They are playing 'nice'.
What the Developer needs is to see how the players are really going to play when the game goes live.
Based on that they can adjust the game as necessary. Maybe the game is fine as it is? If so, that's good.
But, it seems to me that if the game is working now - with the Beta Testers PLAYING NICE - then the odds are it will not work when they start PLAYING FOR REAL.
They will not be the first developers to be caught in this trap.
I can see how it might be a problem on some level. Newbie logs in. Beta clique is already waiting with six people to slaughter them. Newbie feels "Oh noes! I quit!".
That isn't good. It's funny, but not good for the playerbase. Hopefully there will be enough anti-PKers to counterbalance the inevitable cliques that will form to keep the beta players busy, so that more bodies can come up through the ranks.
I doubt it's going to get so bad as to promote safe zones or anything, though. I could be wrong (It wouldnt have been the first time), but I don't see it happening. Some of the Darkfall testers are so fanatical about the game that they would literally stop PKing to massacre their buddies in order to give the newbies a chance. Once the playerbase gets rolling, we'll have the normal "Blue vs Red" thing going on, and things will become stablized.
But yeah, I can see a basic problem with people not getting the chance to get out the door. I went off mainly because a population bias issue was brought up, and while I know from experience how badly that was for WAR, Darkfall never really seemed to be a <race> vs <race> game in any sense, but rather a <Rogue/Guild> vs <Non-Rogue/Guild> type of deal.
Poolhalls?
Do they have FFA PvP? And what about lootrules? Full loot in pool halls? Do you take their pants too?
The OP was going on about how the beta leak videos show players more or less getting along and hunting side by side. The OP basically said that this is false, and that the beta testers should go about their carnage mongering ways and show the players what the game will REALLY be like. The OP complained about population imbalances on other, more faction orientated games and how it FUBARed launch. We had a little bit of talk about gank fests, 100 people overrunning the newbie towns because of weak guard towers, etc. Basically, the OP went on about things that aren't going to effect a game centered around balls-out PvP combat.
Then I ranted, and it went on from there.
Nice summary.
Yeah. From what I have seen and read the Beta Testers are not being honest.
They are playing 'nice'.
What the Developer needs is to see how the players are really going to play when the game goes live.
Based on that they can adjust the game as necessary. Maybe the game is fine as it is? If so, that's good.
But, it seems to me that if the game is working now - with the Beta Testers PLAYING NICE - then the odds are it will not work when they start PLAYING FOR REAL.
They will not be the first developers to be caught in this trap.
There was a developer article on the net somewhere about how beta tests really work. He went on to the subject of
[ If you have 100 testers, about 50 of them are just there to play for free, 25 of them are there to get advanced info for creating guides for advancement and data mining, 15 are there to find bugs and exploits to be used for when the game goes live while the 10 left are there to ensure the game is stable, working and ready to play at launch out of some form of civic duty to all gamers. ]
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Only if they are quality pants that fit
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
This is basic game design 101. If it can happen it will happen.
You can't pin the success (or survival) of a game on 'hope', doubting it will happen, a reliance on 'some' of the players or the player base in general. Players are a**holes. They will find and exploit any whole in the rules or the game in less than a nanosecond if it is to their advantage. Particularly when they get their e-peens out.
This is one of my favorite Developer Quotes on this subject:
Originally Posted by KFS1
"One of the tough things about becoming a game developer is learning how gamers in a game are like atoms in a box. You don't send a vessel up into space a hole in the side of it and say "it's a really tiny hole in an obscure place, the Oxygen in the ship will never find it, so it shouldn't be a problem".
KFS1 is the Lead Programmer for Cornered Rat Software.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
The OP was going on about how the beta leak videos show players more or less getting along and hunting side by side. The OP basically said that this is false, and that the beta testers should go about their carnage mongering ways and show the players what the game will REALLY be like. The OP complained about population imbalances on other, more faction orientated games and how it FUBARed launch. We had a little bit of talk about gank fests, 100 people overrunning the newbie towns because of weak guard towers, etc. Basically, the OP went on about things that aren't going to effect a game centered around balls-out PvP combat.
Then I ranted, and it went on from there.
Nice summary.
Yeah. From what I have seen and read the Beta Testers are not being honest.
They are playing 'nice'.
What the Developer needs is to see how the players are really going to play when the game goes live.
Based on that they can adjust the game as necessary. Maybe the game is fine as it is? If so, that's good.
But, it seems to me that if the game is working now - with the Beta Testers PLAYING NICE - then the odds are it will not work when they start PLAYING FOR REAL.
They will not be the first developers to be caught in this trap.
There was a developer article on the net somewhere about how beta tests really work. He went on to the subject of
[ If you have 100 testers, about 50 of them are just there to play for free, 25 of them are there to get advanced info for creating guides for advancement and data mining, 15 are there to find bugs and exploits to be used for when the game goes live while the 10 left are there to ensure the game is stable, working and ready to play at launch out of some form of civic duty to all gamers. ]
That goes to say something else, as well. With so many people just playing for free, why would they bother being careful? Even if they are pussyfooting, they aren't doing it to decieve per se, just not get their asses handed to them or be ostracized (I think I spelled that right) by the community.
The behavior shown in the "latest" leak video looks like typical PvP apprehension. The distance taking after an "oops" hit. The glance at players nearing the character's "threat zone". Sure, the guy could just be a propaganda specialist, but considering the fact that he admits to attacking the guy solely for the video, it could be fairly quiet in the newbie zones in beta right now.
If this were an open beta, I'm sure we would see plenty of PvP combat.
I'd love a link to that if you can find it please?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
This is basic game design 101. If it can happen it will happen.
You can't pin the success (or survival) of a game on 'hope', doubting it will happen, a reliance on 'some' of the players or the player base in general. Players are a**holes. They will find and exploit any whole in the rules or the game in less than a nanosecond if it is to their advantage. Particularly when they get their e-peens out.
This is one of my favorite Developer Quotes on this subject:
Originally Posted by KFS1
"One of the tough things about becoming a game developer is learning how gamers in a game are like atoms in a box. You don't send a vessel up into space a hole in the side of it and say "it's a really tiny hole in an obscure place, the Oxygen in the ship will never find it, so it shouldn't be a problem".
KFS1 is the Lead Programmer for Cornered Rat Software.
I agree with you for the most part, but you just quoted the biggest joke in the MMO business. KFR is the worst person to use in an example of "This is how it is in the MMO business" I can think of. KFR eats, sleeps, and breathes stupidity.
But yeah. Generally speaking, players will give the game the shaft if it gets them over. Like I said, though. I think enough players will want the game to succeed enough to blitz those dedicated to screwing it over at any cost. Could be wrong though. This game seems to have a curse of some kind, so maybe it'll just crash and burn.
So are you agreeing with me that the current Beta videos suggest that the Beta Testers are playing differently than we can expect to see in the real game?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
I'd love a link to that if you can find it please?
Looking for it now actually
I read it back when Wish was still in beta and I think it was on their site.
It was written by a guy named 'Dave' or 'David'
http://www.mutablerealms.com/news/dev13.html
That was the link I had but the site is no longer there.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I must say after watching the beta leak videos I think the game is looking good... I've been a skeptic and sometimes a basher of the game because the lack of info but I have to be honest those videos/pics actually have me looking forward to the game now. That's all I wanted was some real gameplay footage and info..
The OP was going on about how the beta leak videos show players more or less getting along and hunting side by side. The OP basically said that this is false, and that the beta testers should go about their carnage mongering ways and show the players what the game will REALLY be like. The OP complained about population imbalances on other, more faction orientated games and how it FUBARed launch. We had a little bit of talk about gank fests, 100 people overrunning the newbie towns because of weak guard towers, etc. Basically, the OP went on about things that aren't going to effect a game centered around balls-out PvP combat.
Then I ranted, and it went on from there.
Nice summary.
Yeah. From what I have seen and read the Beta Testers are not being honest.
They are playing 'nice'.
What the Developer needs is to see how the players are really going to play when the game goes live.
Based on that they can adjust the game as necessary. Maybe the game is fine as it is? If so, that's good.
But, it seems to me that if the game is working now - with the Beta Testers PLAYING NICE - then the odds are it will not work when they start PLAYING FOR REAL.
They will not be the first developers to be caught in this trap.
There was a developer article on the net somewhere about how beta tests really work. He went on to the subject of
[ If you have 100 testers, about 50 of them are just there to play for free, 25 of them are there to get advanced info for creating guides for advancement and data mining, 15 are there to find bugs and exploits to be used for when the game goes live while the 10 left are there to ensure the game is stable, working and ready to play at launch out of some form of civic duty to all gamers. ]
That goes to say something else, as well. With so many people just playing for free, why would they bother being careful? Even if they are pussyfooting, they aren't doing it to decieve per se, just not get their asses handed to them or be ostracized (I think I spelled that right) by the community.
The behavior shown in the "latest" leak video looks like typical PvP apprehension. The distance taking after an "oops" hit. The glance at players nearing the character's "threat zone". Sure, the guy could just be a propaganda specialist, but considering the fact that he admits to attacking the guy solely for the video, it could be fairly quiet in the newbie zones in beta right now.
If this were an open beta, I'm sure we would see plenty of PvP combat.
I think the main reason there isnt much pvp happening in the beta atm is due to what some leakers have stated about AV constantly wiping the servers. People are probably too interested in getting their skills up high enough to see what sort of impact it has on pvp overall because they have seen the lower skill pvp enough already.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Fixed
Dang, beat me to it.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
So are you agreeing with me that the current Beta videos suggest that the Beta Testers are playing differently than we can expect to see in the real game?
Not really. Some of them may be, solely for the purpose of the video. However, the video I'm talking about (the guy with the polearm), the guy actually played in a false manner TO ATTACK SOMEONE. That's different, if what I'm thinking you're saying is correct.
I think the guy is legitimately apprehensive about attacking people. He/she may just be that type of player. There were plenty of times (in all of our gaming experiences) when we've erred on the side of caution before ganking someone. I think the guy in that video just naturally doesn't obliterate whoever he can get away with, and only attacked someone to show whats going on.
The real question isnt about the video maker. The real question is did the other players know a video was being made, did they hold back their antics because a video was being made, and did the devs of Darkfall support this activity and the leakage of the videos.
All I know is that the behavior in the video wasnt too off from a situation that would go down in an Open PvP environment. Aside from that one female character, everyone was just peacefully minding their own until some guy (the one shooting the video) attacked another guy. Then all hell broke loose. Its not different than when you used to see a gray run through town in Ultima Online. You would kill them because you could get away with it, and get free loot. Nothing more.
I'm not going to say I'm 100% convinced that you're wrong. I'm just saying that the ONE video I saw seemed legit.
Auch, I`m not english so I might have missed something here. But are you claiming killing newbies is PvP?
I dunno when you started playing UO, but before statloss being red didn`t make your e-peen any bigger. Being red was the norm, and 80% of my server was a murderer before statloss. Heck we could even walk into towns as a dreadlord back then. Before statloss a PK had nothing nothing to lose but everything to win, and thats why everybody and his mother was a PK. Statloss however was the thing that made the PK respected, because then there was a risk/reward in the way they played. I acctually felt sorry when my old nemesis died after statloss was implemented.
You sure have some balls claiming that killing newbies is fun but fighting players with 5 x GM is boring. I don`t get it why you mix PvP into your newbiekilling, when everybody knew you could oneshot a newbie with an E-bolt. If you compare that to PVE you`ll probably brag about your leet boarkilling skills too.
I agree that Trammel killed UO, but never compare the cowardly killing of defenceless newbies with PvP. What you call boring fight against a 5 x GM is what I call PvP.
And that is what worries me. If AV is constantly wiping the servers and people are so focused on getting skills up and such, it tells me that it is early beta. I mean they are mainly testing the small things such as skills and other related things. My concern now is that the overall balance (not class but game) is not being tested.
I have been worried mainly about the whole thing not working. PVP/looting/combat is all so integrated that if one part is broken, the whole system will suffer. The "meta" aspect of the game is not being tested it seems and that is a major cause for concern. In other words, if the game launches with major design issues (large ones - focused on the overall picture), then what will AV do to fix the game? I am highly concerned about that and now even more so with hearing this.
And thats what most people miss when they talk about 'how good the game is'
I hate when people use the whole "internal/pro tester" line as a reason not to worry. I have seen it in many beta tests and the end result is it ends up either not being in the initial release, held off for more testing or released at launch an a incredibly broken/bugged state.
Too many games as of late have claimed to have features working flawlessly in internal testing, features that will make it to release, etc etc, only to have the feature be absent with a Dev post stating "Will be patched in at a later date" (Funcom comes to mind here with Notum Wars - the whole tower battle system that was supposed to be in at launch, was never tested by testers but we should 'take their word for it that it is working and will be there at retail" only to later find out that it will be in a patch... which then turned into a $20 'Booster pack'. Not to mention the whole AoC thing with Siege warfare, city building, etc...)
When features are not tested by actual players in a beta along side the rest of the content, you have no idea how things will pan out. So called 'pro' testers are paid to look for specific issues. Your average play tester will look for what they can get away with and ways to bypass or cheat a system. Play testers are the ones who find these weaknesses.
It only takes one weak link to break a chain.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"