It is funny to me that no one even realizes they haven't invested anything, but still show so much hate. I guess it is all of your missions to just save everyone on these forums from buying Darkfall even though you are making gross assumptions? Right... the worst part of all is that some of you have actually convinced yourselves that this is your motive.
Who here isn't smart enough to know that preordering is a huge risk and not to do it if you can't afford to lose the money.
This has just turned into a club where haters can hang out and breed ignorance and negativity to the point where they are so biased that even if something good came out of this they would be blinded to it.
Oh so we have to get scammed AGAIN by another company before we can say anything? I am sorry but the human race is not an animal we can learn from past mistakes and not make them again. If you burn your hand on a stove once, and the next time you walk in the kitchen and you see signs that the stove is on are you going to touch it again? Same with MMO's we dont have to give money to be able to spot signs of a problem.
Is there someone out there that are currently holding a gun to your head and forcing you to pre-order?
If no, I fail to se the logic in your post (and I would like to question the motives of all those agreeing to your post)
Essentially you are saying: The human is able to learn from their mistakes right?
You are also saying that you have already been burnt on previous MMO's (the stove analogy) right?
So by that logic you will NOT be pre-ordering, am I right?
Then noone will scam you.. again I fail to see the logic in your post it is only stating the obvious.
Ok but if you are standing there and watching someone walk into the kitchen when the burner is on. (I am a father) Are you going to let them get burned to know it's hot or are you going to stop them and explain what could happen.
I think most haters on here have the goal of trying to stop others from making the same mistakes they made in the past to save them the feeling of getting burned. When my kids walk into the kitchen and I see them moving towards the stove I warn them. If they keep getting closer I warn them more fiercely. If they don't stop then I grab them and pull them away. Sit them down and explain it clearly. I think when i read most haters posts it comes along pretty much like that.
Now there are many that are just excited to see people get burned. Kind of like watching america's funniest home video's or some youtube video of some idiot walking up to the stove and getting burned. They will laugh their asses off and say what a dumb ass for not knowing it in advance.
That is pretty much the two groups of haters on these forums the ones trying to help and the ones waiting to laugh in your face.
Myself I am more of the it looks like it might be hot so I will stay away so I try to say hey it looks hot you might want to avoid it. Not rabid by any means but just a slight you might want to avoid this at least until we can get a better look and see if it really is.
As for the it's not in your face comment it surely is the forum faller go into every other game forum talking about how that game fails and darkfall will pwn it. So it is in our faces even if we don't go look for it.
Gom276 Prolific MMO player Just can't say no to any mmo
It is funny to me that no one even realizes they haven't invested anything, but still show so much hate. I guess it is all of your missions to just save everyone on these forums from buying Darkfall even though you are making gross assumptions? Right... the worst part of all is that some of you have actually convinced yourselves that this is your motive. Who here isn't smart enough to know that preordering is a huge risk and not to do it if you can't afford to lose the money. This has just turned into a club where haters can hang out and breed ignorance and negativity to the point where they are so biased that even if something good came out of this they would be blinded to it.
Nice post, and I see it exactly like you do. I won't lump all the skeptics in with the haters but the level of hate and blind assumptions is incredible out of some people. I actually believe that for some, its a personal agenda to go out and trash on Darkfall. Its like they've been affected in previous games by some of the same playstyles that DF has to offer.
I disagree. I think people behave this way because they enjoy pissing other people off. What better place than then the internet? People can't beat you up on the internet! Thank God! We'd all be in so much trouble! It doesn't just go on here, you know, although game forums are some of the best places to find raving lunatics. I've seen more bitterness and mean-spiritedness on some of the tech boards I peruse. I saw a horribly nasty fight on a Philosophy of Science board that actually had one of the members calling the police because he felt another member was trying to drive him to the edge of sanity! (I still don't know how he thought that would work) So face it. It's everywhere. There's lots of cranky and mean people, even outside this forum. Being a Darkfall fan or sceptic doesn't make you any better or worse. It doesn't absolve you of your internet sins. We are probably all going to hell. Well, actually I'm a hell skeptic.
I was honestly wondering how much money people have paid for their DF accts and subscriptions so far. I am coming to the conclusion that alot of people must have went very deep in the hole because of the amount of whining, accusing and hate they've shown towards the developers though they have yet to pay a cent for the product. Just wondering how much you've spent but I am pretty sure it was less than a penny.
Are you just trying to say that only the delusional fans who were crazy enough to pay them money for this thing have the right to complain?
Sorry, but the only thing anyone who spent money on Darkfall deserves is a course on "how the real life works".
Fanboi 1: I would rather they take their time in releasing the game than releasing a bad game. (How many times have you heard this line?)
Disgruntled Fanboi: I am so tired of being burned by an MMOs and if this one sucks I am done with MMOs (but I am still going to buy it because I am addicted to games but in denial)
Realistic Fanboi: I am very excited about the release of this game but 1-2 months of stress testing is just not enough. Just look at what happened during the first wave of invites. Lets just hope they know what they are doing.
Dumb Fanboi: WTF! OMG! FFS! Just rel3as3 it t3h fukin gam3 I n33d to PWN noobs and steal their crap!
True Fanboi: You guys are just haters! This is going to be the best game EVER! Don't complain about complaining because then there is irony involed and you are dumb. (um..yeah....what?)
It is funny to me that no one even realizes they haven't invested anything, but still show so much hate. I guess it is all of your missions to just save everyone on these forums from buying Darkfall even though you are making gross assumptions? Right... the worst part of all is that some of you have actually convinced yourselves that this is your motive. Who here isn't smart enough to know that preordering is a huge risk and not to do it if you can't afford to lose the money. This has just turned into a club where haters can hang out and breed ignorance and negativity to the point where they are so biased that even if something good came out of this they would be blinded to it.
Yet you show just as much hate to these people. Your post stinks of it as you rail against those that criticize. You lump everyone into on category (haters) when there are various shades of gray on both sides.
This is a board where discussion takes place... discussions can only happen if there are varying points of view. Trying to suppress other views is akin to some totalitarian state. We already have seen what over glorifying a single view can cause during any of the various wars in our history.
You can worship censorship if you want, I will instead take the good with the bad and fight for free speech. Either we allow all of it or everyone needs to be silenced. It is clear what side of the fence you fall on.
There are still major issues with this game and only a fool would ignore them, even worse only an ignorant hypocrite would try to promote the game while suppressing its faults.
I have not seen a troll try to trick members into posting NDA breaking information so they can report them. I have seen this tactic used several times by fanbois on this board. That not only is dishonest, but speaks volumes about the character of some of the people promoting these actions.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Time for a movie analogy. (because they are always so much like MMO's) I hate Tom Cruise. I hate Tom Cruise movies. I wonder why they even make Tom Cruise movies. I haven't paid for a Tom Cruise movie in years, and I don't even watch them when they are on TV for free. Tom Cruise was the star of a recent movie, Valkarye. I did not pay for that movie, but I hate it. They did however, advertise the hell out of it, sometimes playing two commercials for it in one station break. (This made me hate it even more.) The tried to tell me it was an epic movie, full of action and adventure. Worst of all, they tried to convince me that because Tom Cruise was in the movie, some how this movie must be good. Same thing with Tasos and Darkfall. They've been advertising for years features and promised that I frankly don't think they can keep. And the cast stars people like Tasos, who I just don't like. So although I have never paid a dime for it, I think I hate it. Only difference between Tom Cruise and Tasos, is I've seen Tom's movies, and have a solid basis for hating them, while I've seen little to nothing about DF, so my hatred is based more on expectation than actual fact. Is it rational? Probably not. But hey, these are gaming forums, who says I have to be rational here?
edit: Oh yes, and I want to give a shout out to my special 'fan' out there. Seems he really enjoys my posts and likes sharing his thoughts with me.
First off Kyleran I aint gonna flame you, you're one of the more balanced "hater" around here I think. (btw I hear you on the Tom Cruise thing, the man is a joke)
But you do go abit overboard with your movie analogy.
1. Aventurine is hardly playing commersials on your TV or radio are they? Not eaven on this site. This site have a forum for people interested in discussing (and flaming/trolling ;-) darkfall but that about it.
2. Aventurine isn't pushing any information your way, you are actively seeking it out, true?
May I suggest using Marx and Communism as a basis of your analogy instead? You don't need to actively read the books to know anything about it.
Well Tom Cruise is not putting a gun at your head either.
For 1and 2, yes, Aventurine IS advertising the game, maybe not to the masses, but definatly to the fanbase the game is targetted for (See: noob comic etc...)
The point is, say you WANT to play darkfall, but everything you see from aventurine to Tasos leaves doubts in your mind, so you're a vocal skeptic. If you just flame the game for shows and popcorn, then you're an idiot. But if you flame the game because a part of you wants to play it as it is intended but another part notices bad practices from the developing company, then you have the right to voice your concern
The rules of Debate are really simple; once you have to stoop to insults instead of facts, logic, or reason to try and win your argument, you've lost.
My old political science professor would be pissed with how leading your poll is. You could have at least pretended to be non-biased. At least then you wouldn't look as bad as the people your complaining about.
I was honestly wondering how much money people have paid for their DF accts and subscriptions so far. I am coming to the conclusion that alot of people must have went very deep in the hole because of the amount of whining, accusing and hate they've shown towards the developers though they have yet to pay a cent for the product. Just wondering how much you've spent but I am pretty sure it was less than a penny.
It is funny to me that no one even realizes they haven't invested anything, but still show so much hate. I guess it is all of your missions to just save everyone on these forums from buying Darkfall even though you are making gross assumptions? Right... the worst part of all is that some of you have actually convinced yourselves that this is your motive. Who here isn't smart enough to know that preordering is a huge risk and not to do it if you can't afford to lose the money. This has just turned into a club where haters can hang out and breed ignorance and negativity to the point where they are so biased that even if something good came out of this they would be blinded to it.
Yet you show just as much hate to these people. Your post stinks of it as you rail against those that criticize. You lump everyone into on category (haters) when there are various shades of gray on both sides.
This is a board where discussion takes place... discussions can only happen if there are varying points of view. Trying to suppress other views is akin to some totalitarian state. We already have seen what over glorifying a single view can cause during any of the various wars in our history.
You can worship censorship if you want, I will instead take the good with the bad and fight for free speech. Either we allow all of it or everyone needs to be silenced. It is clear what side of the fence you fall on.
There are still major issues with this game and only a fool would ignore them, even worse only an ignorant hypocrite would try to promote the game while suppressing its faults.
I have not seen a troll try to trick members into posting NDA breaking information so they can report them. I have seen this tactic used several times by fanbois on this board. That not only is dishonest, but speaks volumes about the character of some of the people promoting these actions.
Great post! Guess some folks thought this was a AV fan club or something
Why on earth would anyone in their right mind pay for a Darkfall beta...any beta really. Unless your rich of course,even then...after seeing all the Darkfall Beta leak videos,the game isn't even worth the 60 bucks for the final release.
Paid? There's nothing to pay for. The game isn't out yet.
That is the reason for this thread. To point out to all the people that have doubts and concerns that they haven't paid anything yet. Therefore they have no room to talk/ whine/ complain.
Paid? There's nothing to pay for. The game isn't out yet.
That is the reason for this thread. To point out to all the people that have doubts and concerns that they haven't paid anything yet. Therefore they have no room to talk/ whine/ complain.
I'm not sure that kinda reasoning holds water. First of all, it completely goes against the whole idea of having a forum: debate. Secondly, I don't think most people would agree that just because you don't pay money, vote, participate etc, you're not entitled to an opinion. (Would be kind of a wacky world if only those who voted for Bush would have the right to complain, eh?)
Paid? There's nothing to pay for. The game isn't out yet.
That is the reason for this thread. To point out to all the people that have doubts and concerns that they haven't paid anything yet. Therefore they have no room to talk/ whine/ complain.
I'm not sure that kinda reasoning holds water. First of all, it completely goes against the whole idea of having a forum: debate. Secondly, I don't think most people would agree that just because you don't pay money, vote, participate etc, you're not entitled to an opinion. (Would be kind of a wacky world if only those who voted for Bush would have the right to complain, eh?)
And this my friend is exactly why this is a troll thread. The OP while trying to act indifferent is really a biased troll.
Paid? There's nothing to pay for. The game isn't out yet.
That is the reason for this thread. To point out to all the people that have doubts and concerns that they haven't paid anything yet. Therefore they have no room to talk/ whine/ complain.
I'm not sure that kinda reasoning holds water. First of all, it completely goes against the whole idea of having a forum: debate. Secondly, I don't think most people would agree that just because you don't pay money, vote, participate etc, you're not entitled to an opinion. (Would be kind of a wacky world if only those who voted for Bush would have the right to complain, eh?)
And this my friend is exactly why this is a troll thread. The OP while trying to act indifferent is really a biased troll.
I think you both missed the point..see you don't have paid anything and act like you paid something ..thats the point ..
Getting some perspective and act according to you having paid nothing until now.
First time i visited these board i wanted to collect some info about the game and guess what was here to find ..that garbage that gets thrown around from trolls who can't behave and didn't spend any dime for them to have the right to do that way.
Every time someone posts a information thread ..the typical mmorpg troll don't post anything constructive in that thread... he waits for the meaningless bash and spout hate at Aventurine topics to spam his crap in there.
Why so ?
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
I'm sorry, but the human race IS in fact an animal. A mammal to be precise, latin name: Homo Sapien. You are correct that we can learn from our mistakes, but unfortunately you are wrong that other animals cannot. Ask any pet owner with a dog and a cat. One or the other will learn from past mistakes not to mess with the other. Now as for you stove analogy, what the OP is asking; after you have been burned by the stove in your kitchen, do you then go to Home Depot, find a stove and stand around and complain about how you suspect that it has the same 'hand burning' feature as you last stove? Do you go back to the store day after day and let other customers know that the home depot stove (you haven't purchased yet) is suspiciously like the one you burned your hand on? Nice try. Until your hand has actually been burned by Darkfall, all you are doing is running around the Home Depot warning others about a stove you haven't even bought.
The question comes down to if the people yelling about hand burning stoves have any less right then the people yelling that the stove can cure cancer, take out the trash, and bring back your dead pets?
Either you allow all discussion or you allow none of it. So which is it?
Well played.
Although, I completely agree with you, it wasn't the point I was trying to make. It seemed that the quote I responded to had missed the central point of the OP, which is asking those elements who are complaining fraud, who had frauded them when there has been no financial transactions yet. If people feel like they are being 'had' by Darkfall, the only thing that they have hurt is your feelings. It is very difficult to win a 'they let me down' case in court when the pocketbook isn't involved. What would one plea? Emotional distress?
But back to your point. Your absolutely right. They are free to complain that they have been hoodwinked all they want. Just as others are free to think they are crazy for being so emotionally involved. I wasn't saying he couldn't participate in the dialogue, I was in fact, attempting to participate in the dialogue.
For the record. I believe a lot of people will be very let down by this game. In fact, I predict that the majority who try it will hate it and quit. Why? Because even if they have every single feature they have promised working and in place at launch, everyone has their own personal 'vision' of how these mechanics will play out, and their personal vision will be doomed to clash with the reality. I came to this conclusion as I witnessed the last 4 major titles lose more subs than they kept after launching (VG, TR, AoC, WAR). Partly the games fault? Of course. Part of consumers have many more choices to find something attuned to their personal desires? Of course. Part mass delusion that because a game didn't live up to their personal vision they have been scammed? Probably most of the problem.
With the performance issues VG had at launch, I can't imagine that a small underfunded independent company can produce something more polished.
With the content holes and feature holes that AoC had at launch, it would be difficult to imagine that Darkfall will have all its content and all its features at launch.
With the clamoring for a sci-fi title and a name like Richard Garriot, in addition to content holes and feature holes, how could this independent company make a game bigger and better than the maker of UO?
With one of the smoothest launches in mmo history, the yearning for pvp, the son of DAoC, the big big IP and the enormous amount of momentum WAR had, how will Darkfall possibly be able to keep customers where mythic could not?
If well funded, well experienced, well seasoned gamers that the above developers are could put forth their effort and completely fail, Darkfall's success would be equivalent to a little league team winning the world series. Its exciting when something like that happens, it makes great movies, but of course movies generally don't focus on what happens in reality. In reality, Darkfall has an Everest to scale.
I know they may pull a rabbit out of the hat, but lets face it; it will be a magic trick that Houdini couldn't fathom.
Personally, I don't have faith that this game will be at all functional, polished or fun at launch. I could be wrong, I hope for the fans sake I am.
Oh so we have to get scammed AGAIN by another company before we can say anything? I am sorry but the human race is not an animal we can learn from past mistakes and not make them again. If you burn your hand on a stove once, and the next time you walk in the kitchen and you see signs that the stove is on are you going to touch it again? Same with MMO's we dont have to give money to be able to spot signs of a problem.
Is there someone out there that are currently holding a gun to your head and forcing you to pre-order?
If no, I fail to se the logic in your post (and I would like to question the motives of all those agreeing to your post)
Essentially you are saying: The human is able to learn from their mistakes right?
You are also saying that you have already been burnt on previous MMO's (the stove analogy) right?
So by that logic you will NOT be pre-ordering, am I right?
Then noone will scam you.. again I fail to see the logic in your post it is only stating the obvious.
And you don't seem to have an answer for his question: Do we have to see the scam unfold before we can SAY something and warn those who may not see it to be cautious?
So everyone who sees the red flags due to past game failures and scams should just not pre-order, but also should not speak their mind or give others the reasons for caution?
There are people here who have NOT learned from those mistakes because they haven't dealt with those mistakes yet. So, unlike some people who would just sit back and let the new people to the genre get taken with no warning, some people actually give a shit.
Oh so we have to get scammed AGAIN by another company before we can say anything? I am sorry but the human race is not an animal we can learn from past mistakes and not make them again. If you burn your hand on a stove once, and the next time you walk in the kitchen and you see signs that the stove is on are you going to touch it again? Same with MMO's we dont have to give money to be able to spot signs of a problem.
Is there someone out there that are currently holding a gun to your head and forcing you to pre-order?
If no, I fail to se the logic in your post (and I would like to question the motives of all those agreeing to your post)
Essentially you are saying: The human is able to learn from their mistakes right?
You are also saying that you have already been burnt on previous MMO's (the stove analogy) right?
So by that logic you will NOT be pre-ordering, am I right?
Then noone will scam you.. again I fail to see the logic in your post it is only stating the obvious.
And you don't seem to have an answer for his question: Do we have to see the scam unfold before we can SAY something and warn those who may not see it to be cautious?
So everyone who sees the red flags due to past game failures and scams should just not pre-order, but also should not speak their mind or give others the reasons for caution?
There are people here who have NOT learned from those mistakes because they haven't dealt with those mistakes yet. So, unlike some people who would just sit back and let the new people to the genre get taken with no warning, some people actually give a shit.
I don't agree with your deduction that Darkfall is a scam, there we differ, but this we already knew. What I was questioning was the logic of the quoted post, or lack there of.
***************************** I have nothing clever to say.
Comments
It is funny to me that no one even realizes they haven't invested anything, but still show so much hate. I guess it is all of your missions to just save everyone on these forums from buying Darkfall even though you are making gross assumptions? Right... the worst part of all is that some of you have actually convinced yourselves that this is your motive.
Who here isn't smart enough to know that preordering is a huge risk and not to do it if you can't afford to lose the money.
This has just turned into a club where haters can hang out and breed ignorance and negativity to the point where they are so biased that even if something good came out of this they would be blinded to it.
Is there someone out there that are currently holding a gun to your head and forcing you to pre-order?
If no, I fail to se the logic in your post (and I would like to question the motives of all those agreeing to your post)
Essentially you are saying: The human is able to learn from their mistakes right?
You are also saying that you have already been burnt on previous MMO's (the stove analogy) right?
So by that logic you will NOT be pre-ordering, am I right?
Then noone will scam you.. again I fail to see the logic in your post it is only stating the obvious.
Ok but if you are standing there and watching someone walk into the kitchen when the burner is on. (I am a father) Are you going to let them get burned to know it's hot or are you going to stop them and explain what could happen.
I think most haters on here have the goal of trying to stop others from making the same mistakes they made in the past to save them the feeling of getting burned. When my kids walk into the kitchen and I see them moving towards the stove I warn them. If they keep getting closer I warn them more fiercely. If they don't stop then I grab them and pull them away. Sit them down and explain it clearly. I think when i read most haters posts it comes along pretty much like that.
Now there are many that are just excited to see people get burned. Kind of like watching america's funniest home video's or some youtube video of some idiot walking up to the stove and getting burned. They will laugh their asses off and say what a dumb ass for not knowing it in advance.
That is pretty much the two groups of haters on these forums the ones trying to help and the ones waiting to laugh in your face.
Myself I am more of the it looks like it might be hot so I will stay away so I try to say hey it looks hot you might want to avoid it. Not rabid by any means but just a slight you might want to avoid this at least until we can get a better look and see if it really is.
As for the it's not in your face comment it surely is the forum faller go into every other game forum talking about how that game fails and darkfall will pwn it. So it is in our faces even if we don't go look for it.
Gom276
Prolific MMO player
Just can't say no to any mmo
Nice post, and I see it exactly like you do. I won't lump all the skeptics in with the haters but the level of hate and blind assumptions is incredible out of some people. I actually believe that for some, its a personal agenda to go out and trash on Darkfall. Its like they've been affected in previous games by some of the same playstyles that DF has to offer.
I disagree. I think people behave this way because they enjoy pissing other people off. What better place than then the internet? People can't beat you up on the internet! Thank God! We'd all be in so much trouble! It doesn't just go on here, you know, although game forums are some of the best places to find raving lunatics. I've seen more bitterness and mean-spiritedness on some of the tech boards I peruse. I saw a horribly nasty fight on a Philosophy of Science board that actually had one of the members calling the police because he felt another member was trying to drive him to the edge of sanity! (I still don't know how he thought that would work) So face it. It's everywhere. There's lots of cranky and mean people, even outside this forum. Being a Darkfall fan or sceptic doesn't make you any better or worse. It doesn't absolve you of your internet sins. We are probably all going to hell. Well, actually I'm a hell skeptic.
Are you just trying to say that only the delusional fans who were crazy enough to pay them money for this thing have the right to complain?
Sorry, but the only thing anyone who spent money on Darkfall deserves is a course on "how the real life works".
Fanboi 1: I would rather they take their time in releasing the game than releasing a bad game. (How many times have you heard this line?)
Disgruntled Fanboi: I am so tired of being burned by an MMOs and if this one sucks I am done with MMOs (but I am still going to buy it because I am addicted to games but in denial)
Realistic Fanboi: I am very excited about the release of this game but 1-2 months of stress testing is just not enough. Just look at what happened during the first wave of invites. Lets just hope they know what they are doing.
Dumb Fanboi: WTF! OMG! FFS! Just rel3as3 it t3h fukin gam3 I n33d to PWN noobs and steal their crap!
True Fanboi: You guys are just haters! This is going to be the best game EVER! Don't complain about complaining because then there is irony involed and you are dumb. (um..yeah....what?)
Nuff Said.
Yet you show just as much hate to these people. Your post stinks of it as you rail against those that criticize. You lump everyone into on category (haters) when there are various shades of gray on both sides.
This is a board where discussion takes place... discussions can only happen if there are varying points of view. Trying to suppress other views is akin to some totalitarian state. We already have seen what over glorifying a single view can cause during any of the various wars in our history.
You can worship censorship if you want, I will instead take the good with the bad and fight for free speech. Either we allow all of it or everyone needs to be silenced. It is clear what side of the fence you fall on.
There are still major issues with this game and only a fool would ignore them, even worse only an ignorant hypocrite would try to promote the game while suppressing its faults.
I have not seen a troll try to trick members into posting NDA breaking information so they can report them. I have seen this tactic used several times by fanbois on this board. That not only is dishonest, but speaks volumes about the character of some of the people promoting these actions.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
First off Kyleran I aint gonna flame you, you're one of the more balanced "hater" around here I think. (btw I hear you on the Tom Cruise thing, the man is a joke)
But you do go abit overboard with your movie analogy.
1. Aventurine is hardly playing commersials on your TV or radio are they? Not eaven on this site. This site have a forum for people interested in discussing (and flaming/trolling ;-) darkfall but that about it.
2. Aventurine isn't pushing any information your way, you are actively seeking it out, true?
May I suggest using Marx and Communism as a basis of your analogy instead? You don't need to actively read the books to know anything about it.
Well Tom Cruise is not putting a gun at your head either.
For 1and 2, yes, Aventurine IS advertising the game, maybe not to the masses, but definatly to the fanbase the game is targetted for (See: noob comic etc...)
The point is, say you WANT to play darkfall, but everything you see from aventurine to Tasos leaves doubts in your mind, so you're a vocal skeptic. If you just flame the game for shows and popcorn, then you're an idiot. But if you flame the game because a part of you wants to play it as it is intended but another part notices bad practices from the developing company, then you have the right to voice your concern
The rules of Debate are really simple; once you have to stoop to insults instead of facts, logic, or reason to try and win your argument, you've lost.
My old political science professor would be pissed with how leading your poll is. You could have at least pretended to be non-biased. At least then you wouldn't look as bad as the people your complaining about.
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
The question is how much they are paying people like the OP...
Stupid poll, FAIL.
Yet you show just as much hate to these people. Your post stinks of it as you rail against those that criticize. You lump everyone into on category (haters) when there are various shades of gray on both sides.
This is a board where discussion takes place... discussions can only happen if there are varying points of view. Trying to suppress other views is akin to some totalitarian state. We already have seen what over glorifying a single view can cause during any of the various wars in our history.
You can worship censorship if you want, I will instead take the good with the bad and fight for free speech. Either we allow all of it or everyone needs to be silenced. It is clear what side of the fence you fall on.
There are still major issues with this game and only a fool would ignore them, even worse only an ignorant hypocrite would try to promote the game while suppressing its faults.
I have not seen a troll try to trick members into posting NDA breaking information so they can report them. I have seen this tactic used several times by fanbois on this board. That not only is dishonest, but speaks volumes about the character of some of the people promoting these actions.
Great post! Guess some folks thought this was a AV fan club or something
Why on earth would anyone in their right mind pay for a Darkfall beta...any beta really. Unless your rich of course,even then...after seeing all the Darkfall Beta leak videos,the game isn't even worth the 60 bucks for the final release.
Paid? There's nothing to pay for. The game isn't out yet.
That is the reason for this thread. To point out to all the people that have doubts and concerns that they haven't paid anything yet. Therefore they have no room to talk/ whine/ complain.
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
That is the reason for this thread. To point out to all the people that have doubts and concerns that they haven't paid anything yet. Therefore they have no room to talk/ whine/ complain.
I'm not sure that kinda reasoning holds water. First of all, it completely goes against the whole idea of having a forum: debate. Secondly, I don't think most people would agree that just because you don't pay money, vote, participate etc, you're not entitled to an opinion. (Would be kind of a wacky world if only those who voted for Bush would have the right to complain, eh?)
Problems are problems, whine about conduct all you like; but the problems are still there. Like a turd in a punch bowl.
That is the reason for this thread. To point out to all the people that have doubts and concerns that they haven't paid anything yet. Therefore they have no room to talk/ whine/ complain.
I'm not sure that kinda reasoning holds water. First of all, it completely goes against the whole idea of having a forum: debate. Secondly, I don't think most people would agree that just because you don't pay money, vote, participate etc, you're not entitled to an opinion. (Would be kind of a wacky world if only those who voted for Bush would have the right to complain, eh?)
And this my friend is exactly why this is a troll thread. The OP while trying to act indifferent is really a biased troll.
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
That is the reason for this thread. To point out to all the people that have doubts and concerns that they haven't paid anything yet. Therefore they have no room to talk/ whine/ complain.
I'm not sure that kinda reasoning holds water. First of all, it completely goes against the whole idea of having a forum: debate. Secondly, I don't think most people would agree that just because you don't pay money, vote, participate etc, you're not entitled to an opinion. (Would be kind of a wacky world if only those who voted for Bush would have the right to complain, eh?)
And this my friend is exactly why this is a troll thread. The OP while trying to act indifferent is really a biased troll.
I think you both missed the point..see you don't have paid anything and act like you paid something ..thats the point ..
Getting some perspective and act according to you having paid nothing until now.
First time i visited these board i wanted to collect some info about the game and guess what was here to find ..that garbage that gets thrown around from trolls who can't behave and didn't spend any dime for them to have the right to do that way.
Every time someone posts a information thread ..the typical mmorpg troll don't post anything constructive in that thread... he waits for the meaningless bash and spout hate at Aventurine topics to spam his crap in there.
Why so ?
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
The question comes down to if the people yelling about hand burning stoves have any less right then the people yelling that the stove can cure cancer, take out the trash, and bring back your dead pets?
Either you allow all discussion or you allow none of it. So which is it?
Well played.
Although, I completely agree with you, it wasn't the point I was trying to make. It seemed that the quote I responded to had missed the central point of the OP, which is asking those elements who are complaining fraud, who had frauded them when there has been no financial transactions yet. If people feel like they are being 'had' by Darkfall, the only thing that they have hurt is your feelings. It is very difficult to win a 'they let me down' case in court when the pocketbook isn't involved. What would one plea? Emotional distress?
But back to your point. Your absolutely right. They are free to complain that they have been hoodwinked all they want. Just as others are free to think they are crazy for being so emotionally involved. I wasn't saying he couldn't participate in the dialogue, I was in fact, attempting to participate in the dialogue.
For the record. I believe a lot of people will be very let down by this game. In fact, I predict that the majority who try it will hate it and quit. Why? Because even if they have every single feature they have promised working and in place at launch, everyone has their own personal 'vision' of how these mechanics will play out, and their personal vision will be doomed to clash with the reality. I came to this conclusion as I witnessed the last 4 major titles lose more subs than they kept after launching (VG, TR, AoC, WAR). Partly the games fault? Of course. Part of consumers have many more choices to find something attuned to their personal desires? Of course. Part mass delusion that because a game didn't live up to their personal vision they have been scammed? Probably most of the problem.
With the performance issues VG had at launch, I can't imagine that a small underfunded independent company can produce something more polished.
With the content holes and feature holes that AoC had at launch, it would be difficult to imagine that Darkfall will have all its content and all its features at launch.
With the clamoring for a sci-fi title and a name like Richard Garriot, in addition to content holes and feature holes, how could this independent company make a game bigger and better than the maker of UO?
With one of the smoothest launches in mmo history, the yearning for pvp, the son of DAoC, the big big IP and the enormous amount of momentum WAR had, how will Darkfall possibly be able to keep customers where mythic could not?
If well funded, well experienced, well seasoned gamers that the above developers are could put forth their effort and completely fail, Darkfall's success would be equivalent to a little league team winning the world series. Its exciting when something like that happens, it makes great movies, but of course movies generally don't focus on what happens in reality. In reality, Darkfall has an Everest to scale.
I know they may pull a rabbit out of the hat, but lets face it; it will be a magic trick that Houdini couldn't fathom.
Personally, I don't have faith that this game will be at all functional, polished or fun at launch. I could be wrong, I hope for the fans sake I am.
Nothing to Aventurine yet,but I have been spending a lot on the large shrine to Tasos ive been sculpting in my living room.
Post some pics of it
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
Is there someone out there that are currently holding a gun to your head and forcing you to pre-order?
If no, I fail to se the logic in your post (and I would like to question the motives of all those agreeing to your post)
Essentially you are saying: The human is able to learn from their mistakes right?
You are also saying that you have already been burnt on previous MMO's (the stove analogy) right?
So by that logic you will NOT be pre-ordering, am I right?
Then noone will scam you.. again I fail to see the logic in your post it is only stating the obvious.
And you don't seem to have an answer for his question: Do we have to see the scam unfold before we can SAY something and warn those who may not see it to be cautious?
So everyone who sees the red flags due to past game failures and scams should just not pre-order, but also should not speak their mind or give others the reasons for caution?
There are people here who have NOT learned from those mistakes because they haven't dealt with those mistakes yet. So, unlike some people who would just sit back and let the new people to the genre get taken with no warning, some people actually give a shit.
A poll askng a question, and answers that have nothing to do with said question.
What the fuck.
Is there someone out there that are currently holding a gun to your head and forcing you to pre-order?
If no, I fail to se the logic in your post (and I would like to question the motives of all those agreeing to your post)
Essentially you are saying: The human is able to learn from their mistakes right?
You are also saying that you have already been burnt on previous MMO's (the stove analogy) right?
So by that logic you will NOT be pre-ordering, am I right?
Then noone will scam you.. again I fail to see the logic in your post it is only stating the obvious.
And you don't seem to have an answer for his question: Do we have to see the scam unfold before we can SAY something and warn those who may not see it to be cautious?
So everyone who sees the red flags due to past game failures and scams should just not pre-order, but also should not speak their mind or give others the reasons for caution?
There are people here who have NOT learned from those mistakes because they haven't dealt with those mistakes yet. So, unlike some people who would just sit back and let the new people to the genre get taken with no warning, some people actually give a shit.
I don't agree with your deduction that Darkfall is a scam, there we differ, but this we already knew. What I was questioning was the logic of the quoted post, or lack there of.
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I have nothing clever to say.