Nah I proved they lost 20 million last quarter even thogh they showed a fake 3 mil profit. It would be your job to prove they made 3 mil, but you would have to find an extra 20 mil, I'm not Funcom so I tend to not make up numbers...suprised no one noticed that 20 mil cash leakage last quarter.
Also, imo most of the reserve cash will go for Secrete World as AoC seems dead. Here is the BGM matrix...AoC is a Dog....so further extrapolation means do not invest any more $$$ into AoC, which they have not really, probably 7-10 staff still work on it......the expansion is another story....but focusing on an expansion over a broken game was a bad business decision IMO. http://www.netmba.com/strategy/matrix/bcg/
Dude, nobody else noticed??? We are telling you YOU ARE WRONG!!! And we are still waiting on you trying to prove the opposite. All you have to do is to link us to your magic material so we can understand what you misunderstand.
Cashstatement for Q3, states Cash reserves increased from 30 Mill to 34 Mill. There are no aditional levels to this. This is increased amount of money in the bank (while P&L statement show why, which is due to Net profit).
PROOF!! Link in your reference and stop blowing smoke by linking in obscure BS MBA 101 material. WE WANT TO SEE THE CASHSTATEMENT YOU REFER TO! lol
Conza.. go to the 3rd quarter report.
Go to the section called ' cash flow statement' Find these lines
Cash and Cash Equivalents beginning of period = 52.3M
Cash and Cash Equivalents end of period = 34.7M
The company lost 18M in cashflow in the 3rd quarter. I don't know why you keep saying this 30M number...Funcoms own financial statement says they had 52M to start the quarter, not 30M. Nice try though... posting numbers and hoping nobody notices they are made up.
OMG I just understood what you guys are at... You are refering to their investment activities. There is a post clearly saying that they invested 11 Mill USD as in take money out of bank and buy something you belive will gain value over time. You totally confuse this with loss!!
P&L net profit is the only thing you need to relate to if you want to know if a business is making money or losing money. You can't keep refering to a investment as a loss!!!! It's like saying, hey I bought empire statebuilding and since I payed 100 Mill USD I lost 100 Mill USD. The value of the assets they invested in is there, it went into Long-term receivables among other (+13.9 Mill USD compared to only 1.0 Mill USD last year). But at least I now understand what you erronously try to pass off as a loss.
Since we are at it. Look to liabilities:
Longterm liabiliities: 2776 Mill USD
Shortterm liabilities:11966 Mill USD
= 14.7 Mill USD
Now look at pure cash, 34.7 Mill USD... Even if FC paid off all debt tomorrow they would have 20 Mill USD in the bank. Now also if they started to sell off investments and cash out long term receivables they would have another 13.9 Mill USD in their hand. So, to not confuse matters here, please move your eyes back to P&L statement and observer that FC had a net of 3.3 Mill USD in Q3. Things are not bad at all and I think that's the real reason for why FC yeat again start to hire more people.
Edit: and by the way I could not care less about where FC want to put their money, but I see a very annoying pattern though. 3 posting profiles, not playing AoC have this compelling need to log into the AoC forum and act as financial experts to legitimize their flaim baiting. Thats wrong out of three reasons. 1 You don't know much about the game, because you have not played it in ages. 2. you are not financial experts. Just the mere fact that you can refer to a cash statement as loss prooves that. 3. You poluting every constructive thread with your troll material.
Nah I proved they lost 20 million last quarter even thogh they showed a fake 3 mil profit. It would be your job to prove they made 3 mil, but you would have to find an extra 20 mil, I'm not Funcom so I tend to not make up numbers...suprised no one noticed that 20 mil cash leakage last quarter.
Also, imo most of the reserve cash will go for Secrete World as AoC seems dead. Here is the BGM matrix...AoC is a Dog....so further extrapolation means do not invest any more $$$ into AoC, which they have not really, probably 7-10 staff still work on it......the expansion is another story....but focusing on an expansion over a broken game was a bad business decision IMO. http://www.netmba.com/strategy/matrix/bcg/
Dude, nobody else noticed??? We are telling you YOU ARE WRONG!!! And we are still waiting on you trying to prove the opposite. All you have to do is to link us to your magic material so we can understand what you misunderstand.
Cashstatement for Q3, states Cash reserves increased from 30 Mill to 34 Mill. There are no aditional levels to this. This is increased amount of money in the bank (while P&L statement show why, which is due to Net profit).
PROOF!! Link in your reference and stop blowing smoke by linking in obscure BS MBA 101 material. WE WANT TO SEE THE CASHSTATEMENT YOU REFER TO! lol
Conza.. go to the 3rd quarter report.
Go to the section called ' cash flow statement' Find these lines
Cash and Cash Equivalents beginning of period = 52.3M
Cash and Cash Equivalents end of period = 34.7M
The company lost 18M in cashflow in the 3rd quarter. I don't know why you keep saying this 30M number...Funcoms own financial statement says they had 52M to start the quarter, not 30M. Nice try though... posting numbers and hoping nobody notices they are made up.
He is just trolling as I already told him where to go three times. I did round up to 20 mil which probably confused him, but 2m isn't life or death.
2-3% unemployment is not really hurting....sales may be down but that is where the US usually wants to be.
The article was new to me after reading a post here I looked it up, sorry
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Actually, many games made insane profits last year, but if you noticed last year everyone was releasing games and many bad games were released. I spent insane amounts of cash on games after cheap @$$ gamer discounts but most people probably stuck to their budget, aside from fallout 3.
So IMO the issue was to many games and games that were plain bad.
Bethesda Game Studios which is near me is doing really awesome this year, EA which is a video game conglomerate is not because of it's size, the multiple bad projects drug down the good ones.
Then Midway, who got fat and failed to produce anything forever...I can't remember the last Midway I got since MK 3.
-----------
One thing that has hurt them is console sales projections...which are supposed to go up 50% or more in the next 5 years, while PC sales stagnate, so everyone is developing to much for people to buy for Wii and 360..and porting it to PC. Production last year was probably up 100% it seems over the few years prior...though video games take years to produce, aside from cheesy movie tie ins, so it was probably happen stance.
This is the fourth time I linked this, I have a feeling I'm getting trolled by a Funcom employee because no one could not under stand this, but whatever. Let's say you go to the movies with $52 and spend $34...you lost $18......but Funcom did it with millions over 3 months.
Funcom - Not Doing Fine at all: This is the fourth time I linked this, I have a feeling I'm getting trolled by a Funcom employee because no one could not under stand this, but whatever. Let's say you go to the movies with $52 and spend $34...you lost $18......but Funcom did it with millions over 3 months. THE LINK IS THE SOURCE DATA. http://www.funcom.com/funcom/frontend/files/CONTENT/Funcom_Q308_report_2912.pdf
CASH FLOW STATEMENT: (Figures in TUSD) Q3 2008 2007 2007
Cash flow from operating activities -5 214 -933 -2 587
Change in cash and cash equivalents -17 444 15 492 8 595
Cash and cash equivalents, beginning of period 52 366 37 423 37 423
Effect of exchange rate fluctuations on cash held -143 5 618 6 348
Cash and cash equivalents, end of period 34 779 58 533 52 366 17,587 Loss to cash on hand * I subtracted 34,779 from 52,366 to find the diffrence between the numbers to determine how much FC lost. -34,779*
52,366
Yes, your friends further up in the text, cleared the conseptual confusion that you suffer from.You can't refer to a number in a cash statement as a loss, as the cash stement only state what goes in and out on bank. You can't use the word loss about an investment. If FC bought 1000 kg of gold as an investment, you can't refer to it as a loss!!! lol.. The investment has value as an asset and is transfered from cash statement (-xxx amount of money) into the balance sheet. The money you see going out in green there just goes straight into their balance sheet as an asset. Long term receivables (13.9 Mill USD). www.funcom.com/funcom/frontend/files/CONTENT/Funcom_Q308_report_2912.pdf
You can see how long term receivables increased from 1 Mill last Q3 till 13.9 Mill this year. The point is still,if you want to talk about loss you have to look on profit and loss statement, if you want to look on cash flow you have to look on cash statement, but when you do please remember that negative numbers are transfers to balance sheet and P&L.
Again, you are basically telling us the equivalent to, FC invested 17487 Mill USD in gold, therefore they lost 17587 Mill USD. lol.
Nah I proved they lost 20 million last quarter even thogh they showed a fake 3 mil profit. It would be your job to prove they made 3 mil, but you would have to find an extra 20 mil, I'm not Funcom so I tend to not make up numbers...suprised no one noticed that 20 mil cash leakage last quarter.
Also, imo most of the reserve cash will go for Secrete World as AoC seems dead. Here is the BGM matrix...AoC is a Dog....so further extrapolation means do not invest any more $$$ into AoC, which they have not really, probably 7-10 staff still work on it......the expansion is another story....but focusing on an expansion over a broken game was a bad business decision IMO. http://www.netmba.com/strategy/matrix/bcg/
Dude, nobody else noticed??? We are telling you YOU ARE WRONG!!! And we are still waiting on you trying to prove the opposite. All you have to do is to link us to your magic material so we can understand what you misunderstand.
Cashstatement for Q3, states Cash reserves increased from 30 Mill to 34 Mill. There are no aditional levels to this. This is increased amount of money in the bank (while P&L statement show why, which is due to Net profit).
PROOF!! Link in your reference and stop blowing smoke by linking in obscure BS MBA 101 material. WE WANT TO SEE THE CASHSTATEMENT YOU REFER TO! lol
Conza.. go to the 3rd quarter report.
Go to the section called ' cash flow statement' Find these lines
Cash and Cash Equivalents beginning of period = 52.3M
Cash and Cash Equivalents end of period = 34.7M
The company lost 18M in cashflow in the 3rd quarter. I don't know why you keep saying this 30M number...Funcoms own financial statement says they had 52M to start the quarter, not 30M. Nice try though... posting numbers and hoping nobody notices they are made up.
OMG I just understood what you guys are at... You are refering to their investment activities. There is a post clearly saying that they invested 11 Mill USD as in take money out of bank and buy something you belive will gain value over time. You totally confuse this with loss!!
P&L net profit is the only thing you need to relate to if you want to know if a business is making money or losing money. You can't keep refering to a investment as a loss!!!! It's like saying, hey I bought empire statebuilding and since I payed 100 Mill USD I lost 100 Mill USD. The value of the assets they invested in is there, it went into Long-term receivables among other (+13.9 Mill USD compared to only 1.0 Mill USD last year). But at least I now understand what you erronously try to pass off as a loss.
Since we are at it. Look to liabilities:
Longterm liabiliities: 2776 Mill USD
Shortterm liabilities:11966 Mill USD
= 14.7 Mill USD
Now look at pure cash, 34.7 Mill USD... Even if FC paid off all debt tomorrow they would have 20 Mill USD in the bank. Now also if they started to sell off investments and cash out long term receivables they would have another 13.9 Mill USD in their hand. So, to not confuse matters here, please move your eyes back to P&L statement and observer that FC had a net of 3.3 Mill USD in Q3. Things are not bad at all and I think that's the real reason for why FC yeat again start to hire more people.
Edit: and by the way I could not care less about where FC want to put their money, but I see a very annoying pattern though. 3 posting profiles, not playing AoC have this compelling need to log into the AoC forum and act as financial experts to legitimize their flaim baiting. Thats wrong out of three reasons. 1 You don't know much about the game, because you have not played it in ages. 2. you are not financial experts. Just the mere fact that you can refer to a cash statement as loss prooves that. 3. You poluting every constructive thread with your troll material.
I hope they invested in Golden parachutes and unemployment insurance, but I suspect that the reports are internal investments;p
However, the CF statement is used to compare to the PL statement because the income/Profit Loss statements can be very misleading.
The income statement shows they made a what, 3k profit after taxes and even more before that?
*********************
Operating activities: include the production, sales and delivery of the company's product as well as collecting payment from its customers. This could include purchasing raw materials, building inventory, advertising, and shipping the product. per wiki
Funcom had a negative 5,214,000 cash flow from operating activities.......so that looks like a loss for Funcom on their main business, games.
************************
INVESTING ACTIVITIES: An item on the cash flow statement that reports the aggregate change in a company's cash position resulting from any gains (or losses) from investments in the financial markets and operating subsidiaries, and changes resulting from amounts spent on investments in capital assets such as plant and equipment. per investopedia
Most likely they account all operation costs associated with AoC the expansion and the secrete world here, as external investments would not fly, they are focusing on the core business. For further information look at Q3 06 -
They made 19 million from selling shares and over the same period they invested 8.6 mil, they sold the company and invested it in AoC.
*************************
Cash flow statements are where it is at as P/L statements are subject to skewing the numbers.........it's a snapshot so companies can do whatever to bulk up fake profits at the end, even borrow money, which US companies used to do all the time prior to CF statements. Also, it seems FC uses accrual accounting, which means they don't have the money that PL statement says they have, anyway.
Edit: and by the way I could not care less about where FC want to put their money, but I see a very annoying pattern though. 3 posting profiles, not playing AoC have this compelling need to log into the AoC forum and act as financial experts to legitimize their flaim baiting. Thats wrong out of three reasons. 1 You don't know much about the game, because you have not played it in ages. 2. you are not financial experts. Just the mere fact that you can refer to a cash statement as loss prooves that. 3. You poluting every constructive thread with your troll material.
Agreed and signed. I cannot believe that this simple post turned into such a flame mess.
Thanks for the update on the financial's also...good stuff.
I hope they invested in Golden parachutes and unemployment insurance, but I suspect that the reports are internal investments;p However, the CF statement is used to compare to the PL statement because the income/Profit Loss statements can be very misleading. The income statement shows they made a what, 3k profit after taxes and even more before that? ********************* Operating activities: include the production, sales and delivery of the company's product as well as collecting payment from its customers. This could include purchasing raw materials, building inventory, advertising, and shipping the product. per wiki Funcom had a negative 5,214,000 cash flow from operating activities.......so that looks like a loss for Funcom on their main business, games. ************************ INVESTING ACTIVITIES: An item on the cash flow statement that reports the aggregate change in a company's cash position resulting from any gains (or losses) from investments in the financial markets and operating subsidiaries, and changes resulting from amounts spent on investments in capital assets such as plant and equipment. per investopedia Most likely they account all operation costs associated with AoC the expansion and the secrete world here, as external investments would not fly, they are focusing on the core business. For further information look at Q3 06 - http://www.funcom.com/funcom/frontend/files/CONTENT/061001_FuncomQ306report.pdf They made 19 million from selling shares and over the same period they invested 8.6 mil, they sold the company and invested it in AoC. ************************* Cash flow statements are where it is at as P/L statements are subject to skewing the numbers.........it's a snapshot so companies can do whatever to bulk up fake profits at the end, even borrow money, which US companies used to do all the time prior to CF statements. Also, it seems FC uses accrual accounting, which means they don't have the money that PL statement says they have, anyway.
Hey bud, you are not getting the main point here. Look to P&L to find out about profit or loss. Look to Cash statement to find out about how much cash. YOU CAN NOT try and make P&L type of comments based on a Cash flow statement. lol
Don't mix it up, and why aren't you talking about their assets that have increased several 10ths of Mill USD in value. Is that because it does not serve the purpose of your argument . It's back to the logic you used before, where you want to call 17500 Mill USD worth of gold a loss. You know finaticd, you say you are a banker, but I am not that sure any more.
Here is what I can agree on:
1. The board of FC should not invest much more of their cash over the next quarters as it is always good to have good liquidity. This is however a completely different statement than what you were saying above.
2. I agree on that operating revenue for Q4 2008 probably will not be higher than operating cost, probably resulting in a brake even scenario for Q4 2008
3. That FC probably are seeing a positive trend on revenue and subs in Q1 2004 since they hire new employees. This could also just be like what Jackdog point out, that perhaps they just replace old guys. (guiding the 23rd of Feb will tell).
I will turn awayy from this discussion if the mystery about a cash flow statement is now solved. Again, if you want to talk about loss (and I know you do because of your posting history), you have to talk about P&L. If you want to talk about cash and investements you have to look on cash flow statement and Balance sheet. Cheers.
So you are saying the reason Funcom lost 18M in cash assets is because they took some of their cash and invested in some other cash assets? You do realize that if they did that, it would still be accounted for in the exact same line.
Please... go back to using your 'plastered inn' and 'emmissions' comments.. they were much more amusing.
You through around financial terms and they aren't even close to having the definition you think they do.
Wow.. just wow.. So you are saying the reason Funcom lost 18M in cash assets is because they took some of their cash and invested in some other cash assets? You do realize that if they did that, it would still be accounted for in the exact same line. Please... go back to using your 'plastered inn' and 'emmissions' comments.. they were much more amusing. You through around financial terms and they aren't even close to having the definition you think they do.
The crux of the whole discussion is basically the word in red up there. You keep refering to a loss that never have occured. P&L statement show a 3.3 Mill USD net for Q3 2008. The "loss" you talk about is cash used to buy various assets as an investement.
Here is an quick explanation of the term investment from wikipedia. Investment or investing[1] is a term with several closely-related meanings in business management, finance and economics, related to saving or deferring consumption.
Bottom line is FC has used cash in investments they belive are good. This might be in anything from pingpong balls, gold, stocks or technology that even might have nothing to do with their operation of AoC or gaming. If you call it a loss, that FC save money or at least try to save money, you are the one subject to wowing. To me it looks like good business practise as long as they keep the cash reserves they currently have. Since you are new to this, let me tell you how you can check I am right. Any time an Asset is bought it show up as an asset under the balance sheet (wether stocks, a huge tractor or just a ton of gold). It is basically a transfer of value from the cash post to the other posts. Do you see something special in Q3 financial report??? Yes, you do, you see a huge asset there called long term receivables. That's basically where most of the cash went. An investment!
So if you want to make smart comments about the cash statement it should only be on how much money FC have left. You can not try to make P&L type of statements based on a cash flow statement. Let me just make the same statement as I did above in red (so it finally might sink in) "IF SOMEONE USE 17.9 MILL USD ON GOLD YOU CAN NOT CALL IT A LOSS AS THE IDIVIDUAL STILL HAS 17.9 MILL USD WORTH OF GOLD"
Finally, if you start to comprehend the nature of Balance sheet, P&L and Cash Balance statement, we can perhaps move on and start to discuss again the real topic of the thread. What do you think it means that FC now hires programmers again? Is it Good? Bad? Replacement of old people? Should we expect more good content in future? Or will these guys screw up everything? lol.
Conza you have proved time and time again that you have no knowledge or expertise in analysis of financial statements....take an intro to financial accounting class or something. It took you forever to even find what we were talking about and now it seems your grasping to misuse definitions to lead people to believe that Funcom is the only stock in the world that they should buy because the company is doing awesome, misleading and in oposition to all evidence.
First let me difuse the Long term recievables thing you used because it's made up:
Long-term receivables 445*
*chump change, it would be 18 mil + Interest if you were correct. Also to further prove you are wrong the figure went down 20 or so from Q2 08.
How about this:
Short-term liabilities 11 966*
Funcom seems to think that subs can be liabilities, but that's probably just the Norway of doing things, who knows....the USA way is they owe 11,966 in the next 1 year. It went down almost 10 million so it seems like they paid 10 mill for that last quarter.
****************************************
Now about investing activities again:
Oh! yay!!!!! I knew it: the investments are for games.......so instead of buying fixed assets in the form of capital expenditures they allocate all costs associated with the development of a game to investing activities:
Here is a note on Q2: - though remember Funcom botched all the numbers in Q2, the Q3 ones are right though!
Q2 08 Funcom -
8) Cash flows
The increased cash expenditures related to investing activities compared to the same period in 2007 are
mainly a result of more personnel working on developing Age of Conan and the The Secret World. As most of the investments in intangible assets are denominated in Norwegian kroner the invested amount in USD is influenced by the significant exchange fluctuations between Norwegian kroner and US Dollars.
***************
P.S. lol I looked it up GM has at least 70 job listing, and they are getting ravaged.
Conza you have proved time and time again that you have no knowledge or expertise in analysis of financial statements....take an intro to financial accounting class or something. It took you forever to even find what we were talking about and now it seems your grasping to misuse definitions to lead people to believe that Funcom is the only stock in the world that they should buy because the company is doing awesome, misleading and in oposition to all evidence.
First let me difuse the Long term recievables thing you used because it's made up: Long-term receivables 445* *chump change, it would be 18 mil + Interest if you were correct. Also to further prove you are wrong the figure went down 20 or so from Q2 08. How about this: Short-term liabilities 11 966* Funcom seems to think that subs can be liabilities, but that's probably just the Norway of doing things, who knows....the USA way is they owe 11,966 in the next 1 year. It went down almost 10 million so it seems like they paid 10 mill for that last quarter.
**************************************** Now about investing activities again:
Oh! yay!!!!! I knew it: the investments are for games.......so instead of buying fixed assets in the form of capital expenditures they allocate all costs associated with the development of a game to investing activities:
Here is a note on Q2: - though remember Funcom botched all the numbers in Q2, the Q3 ones are right though! Q2 08 Funcom -
8) Cash flows
The increased cash expenditures related to investing activities compared to the same period in 2007 are
mainly a result of more personnel working on developing Age of Conan and the The Secret World. As most of the investments in intangible assets are denominated in Norwegian kroner the invested amount in USD is influenced by the significant exchange fluctuations between Norwegian kroner and US Dollars.
*************** P.S. lol I looked it up GM has at least 70 job listing, and they are getting ravaged.
I don't understand what you are trying to get across here besides that the 13.9 Mill USD post I referred to earlier is the trade debtor post (my eyes crossed there). But my point is still the same. It does not matter at what post the value is as long as the total value of the assets are increasing. Look, 104 Mill USD compared to 98 Mill last year, in spite of cash being reduced from 58 to 34 Mill USD in a full year. Bottom line is, the cash spent has made the value of FCs assets bigger. Also look to cash in between the years. FC had 58 Mill USD last year Q3 and have 34 Mill USD Q3 in 2008. That is a negative cash flow of 24 Mill over a full year. I did certainly see nothing about this in your deceptive post. You said FC lost 20 Mill in 3 months. First of all if you were thinking on negative cash flow, the correct number is -24 Mill USD in 1 year. Second of all, don't confuse this with loss of value in the company. It's right there in black and white, asset value of FC went up from 98 Mill USD to 104 Mill USD this year. Cash is a part of a company's asset posts so FC actually had a value increase from all their INVESTMENTS!
Now move your eyes back to P&L if you want to talk profit and loss. Q3 2008 was a net profit of 3.3 Mill USD. Regardless where you turn your attention in the effort of finding more trolling material, there is nothing as long as you understand what you are looking at. I'll give you one for free though... I don't like the size of FC's intangible assets post. Intangible assets are much harder to determine the value of. If you're going to troll you can at least do it intelligently and say "hey I don''t like those intangible assets, maybe they are not worth anything". That would be much better than the stuff you are at now "FC, Dr. evil and the Norwegian gouvernment keep playing with numbers only so that Conza can refer to them in a logical and clear manner". lol
Dude what we discuss is trivial stuff, so stop passing yourself off as some kind of financial genious, just so that you can keep flame baiting the entire forum. You have been busted, and unless you can find some way to proove that the value of FC's assets actually did not increase from 98 Mill USD to 104 Mill USD from Q3 2007 to Q3 2008, which the Q3 financial report states in a very clear manner, I suggest you to take a brake till 2008 Q4 report is out.
I expect P&L to be negative for Q4 2008, in spite of the christmas gift sale and the US support staff lay offs. The question is however, how big will those negative numbers be. I am most curious of their guided revenue for Q1 2009 though. Anything above 10 Mill USD is a crystal clear message of increased population in AoC.
You should have been here a few months ago when he tried to convince people that if funcom was short on cash, they could just have an 'emmisions' and raise capital by selling more stock.
Except for the fact that what he was talking about was a 'secondary stock offering' and that companies who's stock has gone from $55 to $3 will never be able to find buyers for new shares.
Oh, those were the days.. it was like Ernest goes to wall street
<Mod edit> Though I'm not sure why FC payed taxes...since all the investments were internal they could have applied them to operating expenses. They only payed 605,000 USD in taxes though so perhaps a bribe but probably a case of window dressing to deceive people into investing. ***************** The funny thing about the stock price is institutional investors can not buy stocks under $5...which kills all volume, therefore hype. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sorry I have to respond to Conza, it's to good to be true as in defending FC he trashed AoC because he does not understand financial statements. Well I do agree about intangable assets not being worth it, IN THIS CASE, but those figures seem to be depreciated as Funcom has probably spent around 100 million for them and probably another 50-70 million over the next year or two, more than they have unless AoC becomes profitable. WHY? Those intangable assets are Age of Conan and the license to use the int prop, The Expansion, and The Secrete World.......that is their whole business, they spent loads of money and still are spending to produce them. If they keep throwing in more money then comes out they will lose. Just as it seems like they lost on AoC. In decent Funcom would have been profitable last quarter if they were not investing in the Xpac and the Lost World.......that is what you see in the income statement. Though, it seems like they came up with some money out of nowhere, Norway government? and Edios gave them like 2 million, then they got the bulk of box sales profits last quarter. They still have ages (of conan) to break even on AoC at that rate, but income will be way down later this month so at best FC will try to survive till the X pac. FC really sucks at making games, the bulk of their workk was the game engine which I'm sure could have been better used. The people bought the stocks in hope that Funcom would invest in those assets and make awesome games and the game engine (intangable assets) that would return more money than the purchased stock price through dividends and increased profit for FC so they could sell the stock at a higher price.
Comments
Dude, nobody else noticed??? We are telling you YOU ARE WRONG!!! And we are still waiting on you trying to prove the opposite. All you have to do is to link us to your magic material so we can understand what you misunderstand.
Cashstatement for Q3, states Cash reserves increased from 30 Mill to 34 Mill. There are no aditional levels to this. This is increased amount of money in the bank (while P&L statement show why, which is due to Net profit).
PROOF!! Link in your reference and stop blowing smoke by linking in obscure BS MBA 101 material. WE WANT TO SEE THE CASHSTATEMENT YOU REFER TO! lol
Conza.. go to the 3rd quarter report.
Go to the section called ' cash flow statement' Find these lines
Cash and Cash Equivalents beginning of period = 52.3M
Cash and Cash Equivalents end of period = 34.7M
The company lost 18M in cashflow in the 3rd quarter. I don't know why you keep saying this 30M number...Funcoms own financial statement says they had 52M to start the quarter, not 30M. Nice try though... posting numbers and hoping nobody notices they are made up.
OMG I just understood what you guys are at... You are refering to their investment activities. There is a post clearly saying that they invested 11 Mill USD as in take money out of bank and buy something you belive will gain value over time. You totally confuse this with loss!!
P&L net profit is the only thing you need to relate to if you want to know if a business is making money or losing money. You can't keep refering to a investment as a loss!!!! It's like saying, hey I bought empire statebuilding and since I payed 100 Mill USD I lost 100 Mill USD. The value of the assets they invested in is there, it went into Long-term receivables among other (+13.9 Mill USD compared to only 1.0 Mill USD last year). But at least I now understand what you erronously try to pass off as a loss.
Since we are at it. Look to liabilities:
Longterm liabiliities: 2776 Mill USD
Shortterm liabilities:11966 Mill USD
= 14.7 Mill USD
Now look at pure cash, 34.7 Mill USD... Even if FC paid off all debt tomorrow they would have 20 Mill USD in the bank. Now also if they started to sell off investments and cash out long term receivables they would have another 13.9 Mill USD in their hand. So, to not confuse matters here, please move your eyes back to P&L statement and observer that FC had a net of 3.3 Mill USD in Q3. Things are not bad at all and I think that's the real reason for why FC yeat again start to hire more people.
Edit: and by the way I could not care less about where FC want to put their money, but I see a very annoying pattern though. 3 posting profiles, not playing AoC have this compelling need to log into the AoC forum and act as financial experts to legitimize their flaim baiting. Thats wrong out of three reasons. 1 You don't know much about the game, because you have not played it in ages. 2. you are not financial experts. Just the mere fact that you can refer to a cash statement as loss prooves that. 3. You poluting every constructive thread with your troll material.
Dude, nobody else noticed??? We are telling you YOU ARE WRONG!!! And we are still waiting on you trying to prove the opposite. All you have to do is to link us to your magic material so we can understand what you misunderstand.
Cashstatement for Q3, states Cash reserves increased from 30 Mill to 34 Mill. There are no aditional levels to this. This is increased amount of money in the bank (while P&L statement show why, which is due to Net profit).
PROOF!! Link in your reference and stop blowing smoke by linking in obscure BS MBA 101 material. WE WANT TO SEE THE CASHSTATEMENT YOU REFER TO! lol
Conza.. go to the 3rd quarter report.
Go to the section called ' cash flow statement' Find these lines
Cash and Cash Equivalents beginning of period = 52.3M
Cash and Cash Equivalents end of period = 34.7M
The company lost 18M in cashflow in the 3rd quarter. I don't know why you keep saying this 30M number...Funcoms own financial statement says they had 52M to start the quarter, not 30M. Nice try though... posting numbers and hoping nobody notices they are made up.
He is just trolling as I already told him where to go three times. I did round up to 20 mil which probably confused him, but 2m isn't life or death.
2-3% unemployment is not really hurting....sales may be down but that is where the US usually wants to be.
The article was new to me after reading a post here I looked it up, sorry
*************
Actually, many games made insane profits last year, but if you noticed last year everyone was releasing games and many bad games were released. I spent insane amounts of cash on games after cheap @$$ gamer discounts but most people probably stuck to their budget, aside from fallout 3.
So IMO the issue was to many games and games that were plain bad.
Bethesda Game Studios which is near me is doing really awesome this year, EA which is a video game conglomerate is not because of it's size, the multiple bad projects drug down the good ones.
Then Midway, who got fat and failed to produce anything forever...I can't remember the last Midway I got since MK 3.
-----------
One thing that has hurt them is console sales projections...which are supposed to go up 50% or more in the next 5 years, while PC sales stagnate, so everyone is developing to much for people to buy for Wii and 360..and porting it to PC. Production last year was probably up 100% it seems over the few years prior...though video games take years to produce, aside from cheesy movie tie ins, so it was probably happen stance.
_________
Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
impairment testing. This process has led to
recognition of an impairment loss of around
3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427
Funcom - Not Doing Fine at all:
This is the fourth time I linked this, I have a feeling I'm getting trolled by a Funcom employee because no one could not under stand this, but whatever. Let's say you go to the movies with $52 and spend $34...you lost $18......but Funcom did it with millions over 3 months.
THE LINK IS THE SOURCE DATA.
http://www.funcom.com/funcom/frontend/files/CONTENT/Funcom_Q308_report_2912.pdf
CASH FLOW STATEMENT:
(Figures in TUSD) Q3 2008 2007 2007
Cash flow from operating activities -5 214 -933 -2 587
Cash flow from investing activities -10 670 -13 071 -18 055
Cash flow from financing activities -1 561 29 496 29 237
Change in cash and cash equivalents -17 444 15 492 8 595
Cash and cash equivalents, beginning of period 52 366 37 423 37 423
Effect of exchange rate fluctuations on cash held -143 5 618 6 348
Cash and cash equivalents, end of period 34 779 58 533 52 366
52,366
-34,779*
17,587 Loss to cash on hand
* I subtracted 34,779 from 52,366 to find the diffrence between the numbers to determine how much FC lost.
Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
impairment testing. This process has led to
recognition of an impairment loss of around
3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427
Yes, your friends further up in the text, cleared the conseptual confusion that you suffer from.You can't refer to a number in a cash statement as a loss, as the cash stement only state what goes in and out on bank. You can't use the word loss about an investment. If FC bought 1000 kg of gold as an investment, you can't refer to it as a loss!!! lol.. The investment has value as an asset and is transfered from cash statement (-xxx amount of money) into the balance sheet. The money you see going out in green there just goes straight into their balance sheet as an asset. Long term receivables (13.9 Mill USD). www.funcom.com/funcom/frontend/files/CONTENT/Funcom_Q308_report_2912.pdf
You can see how long term receivables increased from 1 Mill last Q3 till 13.9 Mill this year. The point is still,if you want to talk about loss you have to look on profit and loss statement, if you want to look on cash flow you have to look on cash statement, but when you do please remember that negative numbers are transfers to balance sheet and P&L.
Again, you are basically telling us the equivalent to, FC invested 17487 Mill USD in gold, therefore they lost 17587 Mill USD. lol.
Dude, nobody else noticed??? We are telling you YOU ARE WRONG!!! And we are still waiting on you trying to prove the opposite. All you have to do is to link us to your magic material so we can understand what you misunderstand.
Cashstatement for Q3, states Cash reserves increased from 30 Mill to 34 Mill. There are no aditional levels to this. This is increased amount of money in the bank (while P&L statement show why, which is due to Net profit).
PROOF!! Link in your reference and stop blowing smoke by linking in obscure BS MBA 101 material. WE WANT TO SEE THE CASHSTATEMENT YOU REFER TO! lol
Conza.. go to the 3rd quarter report.
Go to the section called ' cash flow statement' Find these lines
Cash and Cash Equivalents beginning of period = 52.3M
Cash and Cash Equivalents end of period = 34.7M
The company lost 18M in cashflow in the 3rd quarter. I don't know why you keep saying this 30M number...Funcoms own financial statement says they had 52M to start the quarter, not 30M. Nice try though... posting numbers and hoping nobody notices they are made up.
OMG I just understood what you guys are at... You are refering to their investment activities. There is a post clearly saying that they invested 11 Mill USD as in take money out of bank and buy something you belive will gain value over time. You totally confuse this with loss!!
P&L net profit is the only thing you need to relate to if you want to know if a business is making money or losing money. You can't keep refering to a investment as a loss!!!! It's like saying, hey I bought empire statebuilding and since I payed 100 Mill USD I lost 100 Mill USD. The value of the assets they invested in is there, it went into Long-term receivables among other (+13.9 Mill USD compared to only 1.0 Mill USD last year). But at least I now understand what you erronously try to pass off as a loss.
Since we are at it. Look to liabilities:
Longterm liabiliities: 2776 Mill USD
Shortterm liabilities:11966 Mill USD
= 14.7 Mill USD
Now look at pure cash, 34.7 Mill USD... Even if FC paid off all debt tomorrow they would have 20 Mill USD in the bank. Now also if they started to sell off investments and cash out long term receivables they would have another 13.9 Mill USD in their hand. So, to not confuse matters here, please move your eyes back to P&L statement and observer that FC had a net of 3.3 Mill USD in Q3. Things are not bad at all and I think that's the real reason for why FC yeat again start to hire more people.
Edit: and by the way I could not care less about where FC want to put their money, but I see a very annoying pattern though. 3 posting profiles, not playing AoC have this compelling need to log into the AoC forum and act as financial experts to legitimize their flaim baiting. Thats wrong out of three reasons. 1 You don't know much about the game, because you have not played it in ages. 2. you are not financial experts. Just the mere fact that you can refer to a cash statement as loss prooves that. 3. You poluting every constructive thread with your troll material.
LOL i needed a good laugh this afternoon. The only thing better now would be a post from Avery.
MAGA
I hope they invested in Golden parachutes and unemployment insurance, but I suspect that the reports are internal investments;p
However, the CF statement is used to compare to the PL statement because the income/Profit Loss statements can be very misleading.
The income statement shows they made a what, 3k profit after taxes and even more before that?
*********************
Operating activities: include the production, sales and delivery of the company's product as well as collecting payment from its customers. This could include purchasing raw materials, building inventory, advertising, and shipping the product. per wiki
Funcom had a negative 5,214,000 cash flow from operating activities.......so that looks like a loss for Funcom on their main business, games.
************************
INVESTING ACTIVITIES: An item on the cash flow statement that reports the aggregate change in a company's cash position resulting from any gains (or losses) from investments in the financial markets and operating subsidiaries, and changes resulting from amounts spent on investments in capital assets such as plant and equipment. per investopedia
Most likely they account all operation costs associated with AoC the expansion and the secrete world here, as external investments would not fly, they are focusing on the core business. For further information look at Q3 06 -
http://www.funcom.com/funcom/frontend/files/CONTENT/061001_FuncomQ306report.pdf
They made 19 million from selling shares and over the same period they invested 8.6 mil, they sold the company and invested it in AoC.
*************************
Cash flow statements are where it is at as P/L statements are subject to skewing the numbers.........it's a snapshot so companies can do whatever to bulk up fake profits at the end, even borrow money, which US companies used to do all the time prior to CF statements. Also, it seems FC uses accrual accounting, which means they don't have the money that PL statement says they have, anyway.
Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
impairment testing. This process has led to
recognition of an impairment loss of around
3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427
I heard General Motors hired a guy to mop floors at a dealership--I guess they are doing fine as well-lol
Please don't derail this interesting thread...
Agreed and signed. I cannot believe that this simple post turned into such a flame mess.
Thanks for the update on the financial's also...good stuff.
Cheers
Hey bud, you are not getting the main point here. Look to P&L to find out about profit or loss. Look to Cash statement to find out about how much cash. YOU CAN NOT try and make P&L type of comments based on a Cash flow statement. lol
Don't mix it up, and why aren't you talking about their assets that have increased several 10ths of Mill USD in value. Is that because it does not serve the purpose of your argument
. It's back to the logic you used before, where you want to call 17500 Mill USD worth of gold a loss.
You know finaticd, you say you are a banker, but I am not that sure any more.
Here is what I can agree on:
1. The board of FC should not invest much more of their cash over the next quarters as it is always good to have good liquidity. This is however a completely different statement than what you were saying above.
2. I agree on that operating revenue for Q4 2008 probably will not be higher than operating cost, probably resulting in a brake even scenario for Q4 2008
3. That FC probably are seeing a positive trend on revenue and subs in Q1 2004 since they hire new employees. This could also just be like what Jackdog point out, that perhaps they just replace old guys. (guiding the 23rd of Feb will tell).
I will turn awayy from this discussion if the mystery about a cash flow statement is now solved. Again, if you want to talk about loss (and I know you do because of your posting history), you have to talk about P&L. If you want to talk about cash and investements you have to look on cash flow statement and Balance sheet. Cheers.
Wow.. just wow..
So you are saying the reason Funcom lost 18M in cash assets is because they took some of their cash and invested in some other cash assets? You do realize that if they did that, it would still be accounted for in the exact same line.
Please... go back to using your 'plastered inn' and 'emmissions' comments.. they were much more amusing.
You through around financial terms and they aren't even close to having the definition you think they do.
The crux of the whole discussion is basically the word in red up there. You keep refering to a loss that never have occured. P&L statement show a 3.3 Mill USD net for Q3 2008. The "loss" you talk about is cash used to buy various assets as an investement.
Here is an quick explanation of the term investment from wikipedia. Investment or investing[1] is a term with several closely-related meanings in business management, finance and economics, related to saving or deferring consumption.
Bottom line is FC has used cash in investments they belive are good. This might be in anything from pingpong balls, gold, stocks or technology that even might have nothing to do with their operation of AoC or gaming. If you call it a loss, that FC save money or at least try to save money, you are the one subject to wowing. To me it looks like good business practise as long as they keep the cash reserves they currently have. Since you are new to this, let me tell you how you can check I am right. Any time an Asset is bought it show up as an asset under the balance sheet (wether stocks, a huge tractor or just a ton of gold). It is basically a transfer of value from the cash post to the other posts. Do you see something special in Q3 financial report??? Yes, you do, you see a huge asset there called long term receivables. That's basically where most of the cash went. An investment!
So if you want to make smart comments about the cash statement it should only be on how much money FC have left. You can not try to make P&L type of statements based on a cash flow statement. Let me just make the same statement as I did above in red (so it finally might sink in) "IF SOMEONE USE 17.9 MILL USD ON GOLD YOU CAN NOT CALL IT A LOSS AS THE IDIVIDUAL STILL HAS 17.9 MILL USD WORTH OF GOLD"
Finally, if you start to comprehend the nature of Balance sheet, P&L and Cash Balance statement, we can perhaps move on and start to discuss again the real topic of the thread. What do you think it means that FC now hires programmers again? Is it Good? Bad? Replacement of old people? Should we expect more good content in future? Or will these guys screw up everything? lol.
Conza you have proved time and time again that you have no knowledge or expertise in analysis of financial statements....take an intro to financial accounting class or something. It took you forever to even find what we were talking about and now it seems your grasping to misuse definitions to lead people to believe that Funcom is the only stock in the world that they should buy because the company is doing awesome, misleading and in oposition to all evidence.
First let me difuse the Long term recievables thing you used because it's made up:
Long-term receivables 445*
*chump change, it would be 18 mil + Interest if you were correct. Also to further prove you are wrong the figure went down 20 or so from Q2 08.
How about this:
Short-term liabilities 11 966*
Funcom seems to think that subs can be liabilities, but that's probably just the Norway of doing things, who knows....the USA way is they owe 11,966 in the next 1 year. It went down almost 10 million so it seems like they paid 10 mill for that last quarter.
****************************************
Now about investing activities again:
Oh! yay!!!!! I knew it: the investments are for games.......so instead of buying fixed assets in the form of capital expenditures they allocate all costs associated with the development of a game to investing activities:
Here is a note on Q2: - though remember Funcom botched all the numbers in Q2, the Q3 ones are right though!
Q2 08 Funcom -
8) Cash flows
The increased cash expenditures related to investing activities compared to the same period in 2007 are
mainly a result of more personnel working on developing Age of Conan and the The Secret World. As most of the investments in intangible assets are denominated in Norwegian kroner the invested amount in USD is influenced by the significant exchange fluctuations between Norwegian kroner and US Dollars.
***************
P.S. lol I looked it up GM has at least 70 job listing, and they are getting ravaged.
Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
impairment testing. This process has led to
recognition of an impairment loss of around
3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427
I don't understand what you are trying to get across here besides that the 13.9 Mill USD post I referred to earlier is the trade debtor post (my eyes crossed there). But my point is still the same. It does not matter at what post the value is as long as the total value of the assets are increasing. Look, 104 Mill USD compared to 98 Mill last year, in spite of cash being reduced from 58 to 34 Mill USD in a full year. Bottom line is, the cash spent has made the value of FCs assets bigger. Also look to cash in between the years. FC had 58 Mill USD last year Q3 and have 34 Mill USD Q3 in 2008. That is a negative cash flow of 24 Mill over a full year. I did certainly see nothing about this in your deceptive post. You said FC lost 20 Mill in 3 months. First of all if you were thinking on negative cash flow, the correct number is -24 Mill USD in 1 year. Second of all, don't confuse this with loss of value in the company. It's right there in black and white, asset value of FC went up from 98 Mill USD to 104 Mill USD this year. Cash is a part of a company's asset posts so FC actually had a value increase from all their INVESTMENTS!
Now move your eyes back to P&L if you want to talk profit and loss. Q3 2008 was a net profit of 3.3 Mill USD. Regardless where you turn your attention in the effort of finding more trolling material, there is nothing as long as you understand what you are looking at. I'll give you one for free though... I don't like the size of FC's intangible assets post. Intangible assets are much harder to determine the value of. If you're going to troll you can at least do it intelligently and say "hey I don''t like those intangible assets, maybe they are not worth anything". That would be much better than the stuff you are at now "FC, Dr. evil and the Norwegian gouvernment keep playing with numbers only so that Conza can refer to them in a logical and clear manner". lol
Dude what we discuss is trivial stuff, so stop passing yourself off as some kind of financial genious, just so that you can keep flame baiting the entire forum. You have been busted, and unless you can find some way to proove that the value of FC's assets actually did not increase from 98 Mill USD to 104 Mill USD from Q3 2007 to Q3 2008, which the Q3 financial report states in a very clear manner, I suggest you to take a brake till 2008 Q4 report is out.
I expect P&L to be negative for Q4 2008, in spite of the christmas gift sale and the US support staff lay offs. The question is however, how big will those negative numbers be. I am most curious of their guided revenue for Q1 2009 though. Anything above 10 Mill USD is a crystal clear message of increased population in AoC.
You should have been here a few months ago when he tried to convince people that if funcom was short on cash, they could just have an 'emmisions' and raise capital by selling more stock.
Except for the fact that what he was talking about was a 'secondary stock offering' and that companies who's stock has gone from $55 to $3 will never be able to find buyers for new shares.
Oh, those were the days.. it was like Ernest goes to wall street
<Mod edit>
Though I'm not sure why FC payed taxes...since all the investments were internal they could have applied them to operating expenses. They only payed 605,000 USD in taxes though so perhaps a bribe but probably a case of window dressing to deceive people into investing.
*****************
The funny thing about the stock price is institutional investors can not buy stocks under $5...which kills all volume, therefore hype.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry I have to respond to Conza, it's to good to be true as in defending FC he trashed AoC because he does not understand financial statements.
Well I do agree about intangable assets not being worth it, IN THIS CASE, but those figures seem to be depreciated as Funcom has probably spent around 100 million for them and probably another 50-70 million over the next year or two, more than they have unless AoC becomes profitable.
WHY?
Those intangable assets are Age of Conan and the license to use the int prop, The Expansion, and The Secrete World.......that is their whole business, they spent loads of money and still are spending to produce them. If they keep throwing in more money then comes out they will lose. Just as it seems like they lost on AoC. In decent Funcom would have been profitable last quarter if they were not investing in the Xpac and the Lost World.......that is what you see in the income statement. Though, it seems like they came up with some money out of nowhere, Norway government? and Edios gave them like 2 million, then they got the bulk of box sales profits last quarter.
They still have ages (of conan) to break even on AoC at that rate, but income will be way down later this month so at best FC will try to survive till the X pac. FC really sucks at making games, the bulk of their workk was the game engine which I'm sure could have been better used.
The people bought the stocks in hope that Funcom would invest in those assets and make awesome games and the game engine (intangable assets) that would return more money than the purchased stock price through dividends and increased profit for FC so they could sell the stock at a higher price.
Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
impairment testing. This process has led to
recognition of an impairment loss of around
3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427