I feel that I am a minority here on this forum, at least for those who post. To me, about 75% of the people here who post here are sandbox players. For one, I don't mind sandbox style, but for some reason I can just not get away from classes. I think classes in mmo's lately are not done correctly at all. So I ask this to all sandbox players. Would you play an mmo with a in-depth, theme corrected, class system with different ways to play the class with out limiting too, just a grand variety of abilities. However, you are limited to the number of abilities to have activated at one time on your hot bars. (say 15).
What I mean by in-depth is, your class has several different ability sets that can be used in different situations and scenarios. Let's say that a fireball has its predetermined effects. However, you can use that fireball in different ways using a combo system. Maybe a combo system much like AION but way more in-depth and intriguing. Maybe each type of class, melee, caster, healer and ranged has their own combo system. This combo system makes you strategize. You just don't hit a few buttons and call it a fight. You have to plan ahead with any combo system. What if these combo systems offered different ways to combo, and you could fight dozens of battles before reusing the same combo again?
What I mean with a theme corrected style, is that what does a shaman do? Of course, they are a healer or support if you want to correctly do them. Also add that they can call on different animal spirits for buffs and debuffs as well has a variety of spells that can be used with the elements as well.
I really think that some sandbox players may be intrigued by an indepth class system with different ways to play that is challenging. Maybe seeing 5 wizards and each of the 5 wizards play differently but they are still the same class so other players at least have an idea to know what to expect out of them. Maybe one combo or two or three isn't powerful and you use all the time, because they have to complement each other. But I do understand that one of the reasons why sandbox players hates classes, is the simple fact of you can not pick and choose your abilities and what to excel in or not. Look at it like I tried to explain the combo system, where there are dozens of way to play your class but still not limited too. Would you Sandbox players at least consider or try a game that has these qualities for a class based mmorpg?
The idea isn't that bad per se, but just a few things:
Is it with a strict level system? (that is, character level > everything).
How does this system benefit those non-combat roles?
Even though situational, but there will always be, or a perception of, a BEST build within a class... how will you solve such issue?
I think people are stuck on the mindset of the class/archetype due to the perceived idea of better, or should I say more "efficient" group functionality. This is debatable, and I can think of ways to achieve not only "efficiency" but "fun" in a skill-tree setting. So any argument along this line is really subjective.
Also, in order to discuss on whether your idea is good or not, you need to figure out what the argument is for the other side (that is, the sandbox crowd). As for your idea, I can do the same, if not more, using skill-tree setting AND not lose clear role for group-functionality. And before the argument tank mage, know that such CAN be limited to a certain degree, and find ways to balance the roles. (by separate magic schools and melee weapon skills, you can actually make pure melee and pure magic be more efficient than hybrids, yet hybrids still can bring something in the group setting.)
Well, the same can be said that will you "class system players" willing to try such system?
Yes I'd try the system. I don't know if I'd like it or dislike it simply because I can't go into your brain and scoop out all the gooey goodness that are the ideas and see them formyself. Untill I can actually sit down and play, talking is just that... talking.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I feel that I am a minority here on this forum, at least for those who post. To me, about 75% of the people here who post here are sandbox players. For one, I don't mind sandbox style, but for some reason I can just not get away from classes. I think classes in mmo's lately are not done correctly at all. So I ask this to all sandbox players. Would you play an mmo with a in-depth, theme corrected, class system with different ways to play the class with out limiting too, just a grand variety of abilities. However, you are limited to the number of abilities to have activated at one time on your hot bars. (say 15).
What I mean by in-depth is, your class has several different ability sets that can be used in different situations and scenarios. Let's say that a fireball has its predetermined effects. However, you can use that fireball in different ways using a combo system. Maybe a combo system much like AION but way more in-depth and intriguing. Maybe each type of class, melee, caster, healer and ranged has their own combo system. This combo system makes you strategize. You just don't hit a few buttons and call it a fight. You have to plan ahead with any combo system. What if these combo systems offered different ways to combo, and you could fight dozens of battles before reusing the same combo again?
What I mean with a theme corrected style, is that what does a shaman do? Of course, they are a healer or support if you want to correctly do them. Also add that they can call on different animal spirits for buffs and debuffs as well has a variety of spells that can be used with the elements as well.
I really think that some sandbox players may be intrigued by an indepth class system with different ways to play that is challenging. Maybe seeing 5 wizards and each of the 5 wizards play differently but they are still the same class so other players at least have an idea to know what to expect out of them. Maybe one combo or two or three isn't powerful and you use all the time, because they have to complement each other. But I do understand that one of the reasons why sandbox players hates classes, is the simple fact of you can not pick and choose your abilities and what to excel in or not. Look at it like I tried to explain the combo system, where there are dozens of way to play your class but still not limited too. Would you Sandbox players at least consider or try a game that has these qualities for a class based mmorpg?
The idea isn't that bad per se, but just a few things:
Is it with a strict level system? (that is, character level > everything).
How does this system benefit those non-combat roles?
Even though situational, but there will always be, or a perception of, a BEST build within a class... how will you solve such issue?
I think people are stuck on the mindset of the class/archetype due to the perceived idea of better, or should I say more "efficient" group functionality. This is debatable, and I can think of ways to achieve not only "efficiency" but "fun" in a skill-tree setting. So any argument along this line is really subjective.
Also, in order to discuss on whether your idea is good or not, you need to figure out what the argument is for the other side (that is, the sandbox crowd). As for your idea, I can do the same, if not more, using skill-tree setting AND not lose clear role for group-functionality. And before the argument tank mage, know that such CAN be limited to a certain degree, and find ways to balance the roles. (by separate magic schools and melee weapon skills, you can actually make pure melee and pure magic be more efficient than hybrids, yet hybrids still can bring something in the group setting.)
Well, the same can be said that will you "class system players" willing to try such system?
Yes I am willing to try a such a system. Again, it depends on how the skills are set up and the diversity of them.
You ask this system benefits those non combat roles? You mean crafting and what else?
If done correctly, there is no best build. Because the system does not allow it. Because, if the PVE of the game, has an outstanding realistic AI, mobs would be different and react to different encounters on different situations. So, the class and combos would rely on the situation only. Are you stating that maybe certain situations will have a build to defeat?
Yes I am willing to try a such a system. Again, it depends on how the skills are set up and the diversity of them. This answer is the same for most people. People always talked as though their ideas are "perfect" when it comes to mechanics and design of MMO, and their ideas may be perfect... on paper. Until we have a demo with such system, and actually play it, then we'll be better at judging the system. This goes with your question of whether sandbox player will try...
You ask this system benefits those non combat roles? You mean crafting and what else? Crafting is one, Merchant is one, Diplomat can and may be one (depend on what you have in the system). Since all you've mention are combat-related, so I ask what about those non-combat roles? will you do what the rest of the genre had done (crafting professions tack onto the combat classes as something to do when not fighting), or will you give pure crafters a place in your system?
If done correctly, there is no best build. Because the system does not allow it. Because, if the PVE of the game, has an outstanding realistic AI, mobs would be different and react to different encounters on different situations. So, the class and combos would rely on the situation only. Are you stating that maybe certain situations will have a build to defeat? Easier said than done. Under the same premise, skill-tree can function the same... just to point out. Also, I mention that there may be a "perception" of best build. Now how will you design your system to make sure those mindsets won't become the driving force for your system? (WoW's talent tree may be a good system on its own, but with the perception of class role, many of the talent tree build are shunned upon when it comes to group play). With class, you will get those who bring their expectation of what the class can or cannot do, and that will be the perception of what the build will be, and they, the players, will drive the system. So as developer, you may want to think of ways to show how your system will function even when the players may "hinder" your system's ability...
Yes I am willing to try a such a system. Again, it depends on how the skills are set up and the diversity of them. This answer is the same for most people. People always talked as though their ideas are "perfect" when it comes to mechanics and design of MMO, and their ideas may be perfect... on paper. Until we have a demo with such system, and actually play it, then we'll be better at judging the system. This goes with your question of whether sandbox player will try...
You do speak the truth there. You can't really tell until you test it and implement it. You ask this system benefits those non combat roles? You mean crafting and what else? Crafting is one, Merchant is one, Diplomat can and may be one (depend on what you have in the system). Since all you've mention are combat-related, so I ask what about those non-combat roles? will you do what the rest of the genre had done (crafting professions tack onto the combat classes as something to do when not fighting), or will you give pure crafters a place in your system? You know, I had a thread about crafting a while back. It was about should crafting be a seperate class and if so, could they group with the adventuring class and still perform their crafting duties in a group to complement each. Maybe, you can say that the crafting classes in a group with the adventuring an be a support type role. I actually think that idea is new and creative. However I did ask the community here and the majority of them believed that crafting should not be seperated from the adventuring classes.
If done correctly, there is no best build. Because the system does not allow it. Because, if the PVE of the game, has an outstanding realistic AI, mobs would be different and react to different encounters on different situations. So, the class and combos would rely on the situation only. Are you stating that maybe certain situations will have a build to defeat? Easier said than done. Under the same premise, skill-tree can function the same... just to point out. Also, I mention that there may be a "perception" of best build. Now how will you design your system to make sure those mindsets won't become the driving force for your system? (WoW's talent tree may be a good system on its own, but with the perception of class role, many of the talent tree build are shunned upon when it comes to group play). With class, you will get those who bring their expectation of what the class can or cannot do, and that will be the perception of what the build will be, and they, the players, will drive the system. So as developer, you may want to think of ways to show how your system will function even when the players may "hinder" your system's ability... Wow's talent system is a decent idea, but its flawed imo. I will stop there to stay on topic. I can actually PM you and send you my ideas on what I have came up with. I have wrote a summery but the discription is still rather long. I have posted these before in developers corner but I took it down because my layout was horrible and everything was way too long. However I will post a take two on that but it will be a while. Agian, I think you may have to understand what I have in my head. If you are interested just say here and I will PM you.
Comments
The idea isn't that bad per se, but just a few things:
Is it with a strict level system? (that is, character level > everything).
How does this system benefit those non-combat roles?
Even though situational, but there will always be, or a perception of, a BEST build within a class... how will you solve such issue?
I think people are stuck on the mindset of the class/archetype due to the perceived idea of better, or should I say more "efficient" group functionality. This is debatable, and I can think of ways to achieve not only "efficiency" but "fun" in a skill-tree setting. So any argument along this line is really subjective.
Also, in order to discuss on whether your idea is good or not, you need to figure out what the argument is for the other side (that is, the sandbox crowd). As for your idea, I can do the same, if not more, using skill-tree setting AND not lose clear role for group-functionality. And before the argument tank mage, know that such CAN be limited to a certain degree, and find ways to balance the roles. (by separate magic schools and melee weapon skills, you can actually make pure melee and pure magic be more efficient than hybrids, yet hybrids still can bring something in the group setting.)
Well, the same can be said that will you "class system players" willing to try such system?
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
To be on topic:
Yes I'd try the system. I don't know if I'd like it or dislike it simply because I can't go into your brain and scoop out all the gooey goodness that are the ideas and see them formyself. Untill I can actually sit down and play, talking is just that... talking.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
The idea isn't that bad per se, but just a few things:
Is it with a strict level system? (that is, character level > everything).
How does this system benefit those non-combat roles?
Even though situational, but there will always be, or a perception of, a BEST build within a class... how will you solve such issue?
I think people are stuck on the mindset of the class/archetype due to the perceived idea of better, or should I say more "efficient" group functionality. This is debatable, and I can think of ways to achieve not only "efficiency" but "fun" in a skill-tree setting. So any argument along this line is really subjective.
Also, in order to discuss on whether your idea is good or not, you need to figure out what the argument is for the other side (that is, the sandbox crowd). As for your idea, I can do the same, if not more, using skill-tree setting AND not lose clear role for group-functionality. And before the argument tank mage, know that such CAN be limited to a certain degree, and find ways to balance the roles. (by separate magic schools and melee weapon skills, you can actually make pure melee and pure magic be more efficient than hybrids, yet hybrids still can bring something in the group setting.)
Well, the same can be said that will you "class system players" willing to try such system?
Yes I am willing to try a such a system. Again, it depends on how the skills are set up and the diversity of them.
You ask this system benefits those non combat roles? You mean crafting and what else?
If done correctly, there is no best build. Because the system does not allow it. Because, if the PVE of the game, has an outstanding realistic AI, mobs would be different and react to different encounters on different situations. So, the class and combos would rely on the situation only. Are you stating that maybe certain situations will have a build to defeat?
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)