I agree about the lack of quality of past emulators, but why prejudge future emulators? That makes absolutely no sense. Probability might not be in an swg emu's favor but probability is not a reason to at least consider when one is done. Illogical I say!
The server communities made pre-cu what it was, not SOE, not the Star Wars franchise and certainly not the game mechanics... the community was the no.1 driving force that made the game as enjoyable as it was for so many people. That community is long gone, even a 100% flawless pre-cu replica can't bring that back. Pre-Cu is dead.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
A poll would not be as accurate as the actual proof ,of the direction the game was headed before PREnge.
The player base headed towards 100k,that is why SOE listened to many who wanted a simpler version of the game.I have no idea how many players are playing now,but i doubt 100k returnees would help anything and even then,of those 100k that would have been left on a pre NGE game,many of those did not care for the system that was in place,so it would have been a drab few that would have cared.
What actually happened was the constant bitching and complaining caused many who just wanted to play the game no matter what to leave,so it ruined the numbers worse than it really should have.So anything pre NGE would FAIL then as it would now as well.
COULD SOE open a few servers to accommodate the PRE NGE players? no doubt,but i doubt they would want to implement two different games for the sake of accommodating probably an actual 50k players at most.I have never seen any developer try to run two different versions of their game,i don't expect to see it ever happen.So SOE chose one direction and by the failing numbers the game had PRE NGE,it was the correct decision,what they did not expect was the alias by the immature who could not accept change.Simply leaving would have been fine,it would not have caused a negative influence on the game,but a drab few immature ruined it for everyone.I guess you could also throw SELFISH into the immature mix as it also fits the bill.
Asking the players here on MMORPG what they would do ,does little to making a game happen,as no one here invests any money into SOE games.It actually cost SOE money to change the game around so it was a VERY bold and aggressive move to try and save the game,the VETS did NOTHING to save the game,instead they asked for a SELFISH approach to save THEIR game not the game EVERYONE wanted.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
the VETS did NOTHING to save the game,instead they asked for a SELFISH approach to save THEIR game not the game EVERYONE wanted.
On the contrary, the "vets" did everything they could to save the game... not once but twice in th form of mass cancellations. If refusing to pay to play a shitty game is selfish, chalk me up as one seriously selfish son of a bitch.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
...what they did not expect was the alias by the immature who could not accept change.Simply leaving would have been fine,it would not have caused a negative influence on the game,but a drab few immature ruined it for everyone.I guess you could also throw SELFISH into the immature mix as it also fits the bill...
So if I go to the grocery store and find some rotten vegetables, refuse to buy them, and complain to the store manager, I'm being immature? Same situation here, except the grocery store manager would quickly remove the rotten product from the store shelves. If the store continued to sell said rotten merchandise and I decided to warn fellow consumers about the place, am I being immature then? Yes, that would likely have a negative impact (hopefully) on the stores finances, but would it be wrong and selfish of me to not want my fellow consumer to get scammed?
SOE continues to sell rotten product, and those of us who like fresh product will continue to warn fellow consumers about it. I'm sorry you would like to eat what they sell you, and you think we are being selfish for wanting SOE to face justice for ripping people off.
Here's another perspective for you.
We have nothing to lose here, we've already lost our game and many of us have gotten over that loss. You on the other hand are trying to hold on to something very tightly, to the point of posting here in an extremely condecending and dare I say it, immature manner, and appear to be coming from a place of fear. Who is being selfish in this situation? I'm not expecting an answer, I just want you to think about it.
I agree about the lack of quality of past emulators, but why prejudge future emulators? That makes absolutely no sense. Probability might not be in an swg emu's favor but probability is not a reason to at least consider when one is done. Illogical I say!
The server communities made pre-cu what it was, not SOE, not the Star Wars franchise and certainly not the game mechanics... the community was the no.1 driving force that made the game as enjoyable as it was for so many people. That community is long gone, even a 100% flawless pre-cu replica can't bring that back. Pre-Cu is dead.
the game chooses the players just as much as the players choose the game. Individuals may have been lost but precu will always draw precu type players. So as long as there is enough interest to make a good sized population then it'll be just like old times.
I feel like I just stated the obvious, so maybe you have a related problem with precu coming back i.e. your particular precu friends wouldn't want to play it again and you wouldn't want to play it without them? ..that's my guess.
I wanted to get in on the game when it was new, but was never able to because of school committments. Then when I was able to get in, SOE started screwing it all up. So needless to say I never got to really experience the greatness of orginal SWG. Therefore, I would definately play because it would be like a totally new MMO for me!
Would I subscribe to an official SOE run Pre-CU server. Yes. Would I allow myself to get as attached to the game as I did Pre-CU (and now other MMOs)? No.
I had a chat with some of the Dev team last year about the possibility of bringing up a classic/origins server, it's something that they would be interested in doing but the current live game demands all resources right now and for the foreseeable future.
One thing I think might be a contentious point is which patch level to bring them up at, if any of you have a preference I'd be interested to hear what patch in SWG was your favourite, for example, Pre-CU pre Publish 9, the CU or some other specific time?
That's a bogus argument. They are capable of supporting multiple games on station pass -- EQ1 and EQ2 is a great example. In that more people would play anything pre-NGE, that would mean more revenue than they get for the NGE, and therefore they would have more resources for a pre-NGE server.
The problem is, when that happened, heads would roll, specifically Smedley's. It would prove beyond any doubt that he was an idiot.
Everything they do there is all about protecting the Smedley.
A poll would not be as accurate as the actual proof ,of the direction the game was headed before PREnge. The player base headed towards 100k,that is why SOE listened to many who wanted a simpler version of the game.I have no idea how many players are playing now,but i doubt 100k returnees would help anything and even then,of those 100k that would have been left on a pre NGE game,many of those did not care for the system that was in place,so it would have been a drab few that would have cared. What actually happened was the constant bitching and complaining caused many who just wanted to play the game no matter what to leave,so it ruined the numbers worse than it really should have.So anything pre NGE would FAIL then as it would now as well. COULD SOE open a few servers to accommodate the PRE NGE players? no doubt,but i doubt they would want to implement two different games for the sake of accommodating probably an actual 50k players at most.I have never seen any developer try to run two different versions of their game,i don't expect to see it ever happen.So SOE chose one direction and by the failing numbers the game had PRE NGE,it was the correct decision,what they did not expect was the alias by the immature who could not accept change.Simply leaving would have been fine,it would not have caused a negative influence on the game,but a drab few immature ruined it for everyone.I guess you could also throw SELFISH into the immature mix as it also fits the bill. Asking the players here on MMORPG what they would do ,does little to making a game happen,as no one here invests any money into SOE games.It actually cost SOE money to change the game around so it was a VERY bold and aggressive move to try and save the game,the VETS did NOTHING to save the game,instead they asked for a SELFISH approach to save THEIR game not the game EVERYONE wanted.
The game was failing because SOE was a terrible developer, and never fixed a broken game. The proof of that is the fact that the NGE didn't make anything better.
The immature ones were the people at SOE who felt that you could increase your profit by screwing your customers.
That shows an immature and childish approach to business. The customers reacted maturely and predictably, and thus, the NGE failed.
I agree about the lack of quality of past emulators, but why prejudge future emulators? That makes absolutely no sense. Probability might not be in an swg emu's favor but probability is not a reason to at least consider when one is done. Illogical I say!
The server communities made pre-cu what it was, not SOE, not the Star Wars franchise and certainly not the game mechanics... the community was the no.1 driving force that made the game as enjoyable as it was for so many people. That community is long gone, even a 100% flawless pre-cu replica can't bring that back. Pre-Cu is dead.
the game chooses the players just as much as the players choose the game. Individuals may have been lost but precu will always draw precu type players. So as long as there is enough interest to make a good sized population then it'll be just like old times.
I feel like I just stated the obvious, so maybe you have a related problem with precu coming back i.e. your particular precu friends wouldn't want to play it again and you wouldn't want to play it without them? ..that's my guess.
Your last paragraph is somewhat true, it certainly touches on the situation in my opinion. Where I think we differ is the community that the emu could draw in the future, infact the community that it's already drawn in. What we (as precu players) happily forget is that there were just as many "1337" asshats that stood for 12 hours a day outside random SP's duelling and talking shit. SWG was as rife with it as WoW or any other mmo for that matter was or is. What I've seen of the emu is that it's brought those fools back, and in force. Now, on a live SOE operated server with 3000-5000 people it was easy to ignore the fools, on an emu server, not so easy. The emu test center is already full of such idiots, it's a sign of things to come in my opinion, an opinion that's probably widely shared due to the fact that out of an ingame friends list of 500 and a guild at one time numbering 450+ I know of no-one, not a single person that's planning on playing on an emu server.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
There is just no way I could trust the current management at soe with my subscription dollar.
If they aren't drastically screwing up a game they seem to divert my money to build cash malls and things of that nature, instead of working on retaining my subscription through good service.
Nothing and I mean nothing currently makes them trustworthy.
I agree about the lack of quality of past emulators, but why prejudge future emulators? That makes absolutely no sense. Probability might not be in an swg emu's favor but probability is not a reason to at least consider when one is done. Illogical I say!
The server communities made pre-cu what it was, not SOE, not the Star Wars franchise and certainly not the game mechanics... the community was the no.1 driving force that made the game as enjoyable as it was for so many people. That community is long gone, even a 100% flawless pre-cu replica can't bring that back. Pre-Cu is dead.
the game chooses the players just as much as the players choose the game. Individuals may have been lost but precu will always draw precu type players. So as long as there is enough interest to make a good sized population then it'll be just like old times.
I feel like I just stated the obvious, so maybe you have a related problem with precu coming back i.e. your particular precu friends wouldn't want to play it again and you wouldn't want to play it without them? ..that's my guess.
Your last paragraph is somewhat true, it certainly touches on the situation in my opinion. Where I think we differ is the community that the emu could draw in the future, infact the community that it's already drawn in. What we (as precu players) happily forget is that there were just as many "1337" asshats that stood for 12 hours a day outside random SP's duelling and talking shit. SWG was as rife with it as WoW or any other mmo for that matter was or is. What I've seen of the emu is that it's brought those fools back, and in force. Now, on a live SOE operated server with 3000-5000 people it was easy to ignore the fools, on an emu server, not so easy. The emu test center is already full of such idiots, it's a sign of things to come in my opinion, an opinion that's probably widely shared due to the fact that out of an ingame friends list of 500 and a guild at one time numbering 450+ I know of no-one, not a single person that's planning on playing on an emu server.
I'm not sure I understand. You seem to be saying that you're afraid the emu will draw the same crowd the precu had before which would contradict your praise of the precu community in your last post, "The server communities made pre-cu what it was".
and why was it easy to ignore the idiots on a live soe server, but wont be on an emu server? You didn't really explain. If your reasoning was that there were a ton more players then I'd reply, really? how do you know (comparing the most popular emu server to the average soe server)? and wouldn't the proportion be the same? and how did more players make it easier to ignore the asshats?
Your last statement is suspect imo. I think you're exaggerating because it's probably 4 years after you've actually had contact with most of the 500 players on your precu friends list. And if they're on your current NGE friends list then...
either way, you can't generalize the experience that others will have just because your particular friends aren't playing.
precu obviously had it's fair share of asshats but by no means was the precu community synonymous with the WoW community. I think they have similarities, of course, but are certainly different as a whole due to the environmental influence that their respective games provide. Not only does precu draw a different bunch, but it can make users act differently then they normally would in other games.
Also for "me" no emulator will even be considered. I think anyone who has tried the various emulators all the way back to the first UO emu servers.. knows why on that one. Obviously other people have their own point of view which will most likely be the opposite of mine.
I agree about the lack of quality of past emulators, but why prejudge future emulators? That makes absolutely no sense. Probability might not be in an swg emu's favor but probability is not a reason to at least consider when one is done.
Illogical I say!
You do realize that they have still have emulated servers up till the current generation of MMO's... so I say quite logical.
I would consider the software... to the point that if I can run my own server on my own network I would dork around with it now and then.
That would be the start/end of my consideration.
I guess I would say that what is logical for me... doesn't have to be logical for you. I never said you couldn't join an emu server if you choose to... I'm perfectly happy if everyone can find what they want game wise. I'll never demand anything be changed just to suit me... /shrug
*edited for grammar ahem and new mistakes made for balance*
Also for "me" no emulator will even be considered. I think anyone who has tried the various emulators all the way back to the first UO emu servers.. knows why on that one. Obviously other people have their own point of view which will most likely be the opposite of mine.
I agree about the lack of quality of past emulators, but why prejudge future emulators? That makes absolutely no sense. Probability might not be in an swg emu's favor but probability is not a reason to at least consider when one is done.
Illogical I say!
You do realize that they have still have emulated servers up till the current generation of MMO's... so I say quite logical.
I would consider the software... to the point that if I can run my own server on my own network I would dork around with it now and then.
That would be the start/end of my consideration.
I guess I would say that what is logical for me... doesn't have to be logical for you. I never said you couldn't join an emu server if you choose to... I'm perfectly happy if everyone can find what they want game wise. I'll never demand anything be changed just to suit me... /shrug
*edited for grammar ahem and new mistakes made for balance*
"I guess I would say that what is logical for me... doesn't have to be logical for you."
yes, it does. Logic doesn't change from person to person. 2+2 is always 4. I think what you mean is that the factors that influence your decision on the subject are different then mine. But you have yet to give a factor that would explain the logic of your decision regarding all future emulators. If the first sentence in your post was such a factor then I appologize because I couldn't understand it.
I agree about the lack of quality of past emulators, but why prejudge future emulators? That makes absolutely no sense. Probability might not be in an swg emu's favor but probability is not a reason to at least consider when one is done. Illogical I say!
The server communities made pre-cu what it was, not SOE, not the Star Wars franchise and certainly not the game mechanics... the community was the no.1 driving force that made the game as enjoyable as it was for so many people. That community is long gone, even a 100% flawless pre-cu replica can't bring that back. Pre-Cu is dead.
the game chooses the players just as much as the players choose the game. Individuals may have been lost but precu will always draw precu type players. So as long as there is enough interest to make a good sized population then it'll be just like old times.
I feel like I just stated the obvious, so maybe you have a related problem with precu coming back i.e. your particular precu friends wouldn't want to play it again and you wouldn't want to play it without them? ..that's my guess.
Your last paragraph is somewhat true, it certainly touches on the situation in my opinion. Where I think we differ is the community that the emu could draw in the future, infact the community that it's already drawn in. What we (as precu players) happily forget is that there were just as many "1337" asshats that stood for 12 hours a day outside random SP's duelling and talking shit. SWG was as rife with it as WoW or any other mmo for that matter was or is. What I've seen of the emu is that it's brought those fools back, and in force. Now, on a live SOE operated server with 3000-5000 people it was easy to ignore the fools, on an emu server, not so easy. The emu test center is already full of such idiots, it's a sign of things to come in my opinion, an opinion that's probably widely shared due to the fact that out of an ingame friends list of 500 and a guild at one time numbering 450+ I know of no-one, not a single person that's planning on playing on an emu server.
I'm not sure I understand. You seem to be saying that you're afraid the emu will draw the same crowd the precu had before which would contradict your praise of the precu community in your last post, "The server communities made pre-cu what it was".
and why was it easy to ignore the idiots on a live soe server, but wont be on an emu server? You didn't really explain. If your reasoning was that there were a ton more players then I'd reply, really? how do you know (comparing the most popular emu server to the average soe server)? and wouldn't the proportion be the same? and how did more players make it easier to ignore the asshats?
Your last statement is suspect imo. I think you're exaggerating because it's probably 4 years after you've actually had contact with most of the 500 players on your precu friends list. And if they're on your current NGE friends list then...
either way, you can't generalize the experience that others will have just because your particular friends aren't playing.
precu obviously had it's fair share of asshats but by no means was the precu community synonymous with the WoW community. I think they have similarities, of course, but are certainly different as a whole due to the environmental influence that their respective games provide. Not only does precu draw a different bunch, but it can make users act differently then they normally would in other games.
I don't know I think I explained it pretty well, if you need it made any clearer let me put it this way, 50-100 asshats on a server of 3-5k, pretty well watered down, hell lets round that up and say 300-500 even though there weren't that many really, so 10% asshats. Now take a stroll around the emu test center, 75% asshats? I'd say more tbqh because that seems to be pretty much the only type of player that they've manages to bring in. Maybe the fact that the emphasis they put on Jedi started that, I don't know but either way their server is frequented by idiots.
On the numbers,no it's not an exaggeration, I'm not personally in contact with all of the 500 people that were on my friends list obviously, I am in contact with people in various guilds though, which probably represent an overall number greater than 500, none plan to play SWG emu afaik. My guild is largely intact, not in any particular game and not particularly active on the forums but again, friends of friends etc all stayed intouch in one way or another and again, none plan to play the emu.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
I agree about the lack of quality of past emulators, but why prejudge future emulators? That makes absolutely no sense. Probability might not be in an swg emu's favor but probability is not a reason to at least consider when one is done. Illogical I say!
The server communities made pre-cu what it was, not SOE, not the Star Wars franchise and certainly not the game mechanics... the community was the no.1 driving force that made the game as enjoyable as it was for so many people. That community is long gone, even a 100% flawless pre-cu replica can't bring that back. Pre-Cu is dead.
the game chooses the players just as much as the players choose the game. Individuals may have been lost but precu will always draw precu type players. So as long as there is enough interest to make a good sized population then it'll be just like old times.
I feel like I just stated the obvious, so maybe you have a related problem with precu coming back i.e. your particular precu friends wouldn't want to play it again and you wouldn't want to play it without them? ..that's my guess.
Your last paragraph is somewhat true, it certainly touches on the situation in my opinion. Where I think we differ is the community that the emu could draw in the future, infact the community that it's already drawn in. What we (as precu players) happily forget is that there were just as many "1337" asshats that stood for 12 hours a day outside random SP's duelling and talking shit. SWG was as rife with it as WoW or any other mmo for that matter was or is. What I've seen of the emu is that it's brought those fools back, and in force. Now, on a live SOE operated server with 3000-5000 people it was easy to ignore the fools, on an emu server, not so easy. The emu test center is already full of such idiots, it's a sign of things to come in my opinion, an opinion that's probably widely shared due to the fact that out of an ingame friends list of 500 and a guild at one time numbering 450+ I know of no-one, not a single person that's planning on playing on an emu server.
I'm not sure I understand. You seem to be saying that you're afraid the emu will draw the same crowd the precu had before which would contradict your praise of the precu community in your last post, "The server communities made pre-cu what it was".
and why was it easy to ignore the idiots on a live soe server, but wont be on an emu server? You didn't really explain. If your reasoning was that there were a ton more players then I'd reply, really? how do you know (comparing the most popular emu server to the average soe server)? and wouldn't the proportion be the same? and how did more players make it easier to ignore the asshats?
Your last statement is suspect imo. I think you're exaggerating because it's probably 4 years after you've actually had contact with most of the 500 players on your precu friends list. And if they're on your current NGE friends list then...
either way, you can't generalize the experience that others will have just because your particular friends aren't playing.
precu obviously had it's fair share of asshats but by no means was the precu community synonymous with the WoW community. I think they have similarities, of course, but are certainly different as a whole due to the environmental influence that their respective games provide. Not only does precu draw a different bunch, but it can make users act differently then they normally would in other games.
I don't know I think I explained it pretty well, if you need it made any clearer let me put it this way, 50-100 asshats on a server of 3-5k, pretty well watered down, hell lets round that up and say 300-500 even though there weren't that many really, so 10% asshats. Now take a stroll around the emu test center, 75% asshats? I'd say more tbqh because that seems to be pretty much the only type of player that they've manages to bring in. Maybe the fact that the emphasis they put on Jedi started that, I don't know but either way their server is frequented by idiots.
On the numbers,no it's not an exaggeration, I'm not personally in contact with all of the 500 people that were on my friends list obviously, I am in contact with people in various guilds though, which probably represent an overall number greater than 500, none plan to play SWG emu afaik. My guild is largely intact, not in any particular game and not particularly active on the forums but again, friends of friends etc all stayed intouch in one way or another and again, none plan to play the emu.
I can't argue with your opinion of what constitutes and asshat or with your guesstimation survey. I do know however, that a testing environment is not the same as a live one and that there are a ton of people waiting to play version 1.0.
and I think you're just pessimistic about the whole thing.
Would I subscribe to an official SOE run Pre-CU server. Yes. Would I allow myself to get as attached to the game as I did Pre-CU (and now other MMOs)? No.
I had a chat with some of the Dev team last year about the possibility of bringing up a classic/origins server, it's something that they would be interested in doing but the current live game demands all resources right now and for the foreseeable future.
One thing I think might be a contentious point is which patch level to bring them up at, if any of you have a preference I'd be interested to hear what patch in SWG was your favourite, for example, Pre-CU pre Publish 9, the CU or some other specific time?
That's a load of crap, no offense.
SOE will NEVER bring up pre-nge, pre-CU servers. Why not? Because then they would have to admit they were wrong. SOE doesn't do that no matter how obvious their wrongitude is.
A poll would not be as accurate as the actual proof ,of the direction the game was headed before PREnge. The player base headed towards 100k,that is why SOE listened to many who wanted a simpler version of the game.I have no idea how many players are playing now,but i doubt 100k returnees would help anything and even then,of those 100k that would have been left on a pre NGE game,many of those did not care for the system that was in place,so it would have been a drab few that would have cared. What actually happened was the constant bitching and complaining caused many who just wanted to play the game no matter what to leave,so it ruined the numbers worse than it really should have.So anything pre NGE would FAIL then as it would now as well. COULD SOE open a few servers to accommodate the PRE NGE players? no doubt,but i doubt they would want to implement two different games for the sake of accommodating probably an actual 50k players at most.I have never seen any developer try to run two different versions of their game,i don't expect to see it ever happen.So SOE chose one direction and by the failing numbers the game had PRE NGE,it was the correct decision,what they did not expect was the alias by the immature who could not accept change.Simply leaving would have been fine,it would not have caused a negative influence on the game,but a drab few immature ruined it for everyone.I guess you could also throw SELFISH into the immature mix as it also fits the bill. Asking the players here on MMORPG what they would do ,does little to making a game happen,as no one here invests any money into SOE games.It actually cost SOE money to change the game around so it was a VERY bold and aggressive move to try and save the game,the VETS did NOTHING to save the game,instead they asked for a SELFISH approach to save THEIR game not the game EVERYONE wanted.
The game was failing because SOE was a terrible developer, and never fixed a broken game. The proof of that is the fact that the NGE didn't make anything better.
The immature ones were the people at SOE who felt that you could increase your profit by screwing your customers.
That shows an immature and childish approach to business. The customers reacted maturely and predictably, and thus, the NGE failed.
I agree with Fisher, and here's why:
Around release time, it seems that many left because things were broken and incomplete. Around CU time it seems people left because their game was changed in ways that really hurt their progress and ruined things they enjoyed. Around NGE time it seems that people left because the bugs and issues made the game completely unplayable at first, the new expansion was gutted, and most professions were simply removed. Now people are leaving because some new content is no longer included in the price of the subscription. It's only introduced into the game via RMT, and you only have a random chance at new items after paying real cash.
What part of that suggests that players are selfish and immature?
And, players did work hard to try to save the game they loved. They beta tested, they tested on TC, they posted bug and issues threads, they sent petitions, they worked with devs to try to fix the original game, and had most of these efforts scrapped. When they gave input, they were often ignored, or told that a broken quest was "working as intended." When they gave input more loudly, they sometimes found themselves banned.
No, it seems that this game did so badly due to a history of catastrophic decisions, that were made despite the very loud protests of its players, time and time again.
Originally posted by BadgerSmaker Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw Would I subscribe to an official SOE run Pre-CU server. Yes. Would I allow myself to get as attached to the game as I did Pre-CU (and now other MMOs)? No.
I had a chat with some of the Dev team last year about the possibility of bringing up a classic/origins server, it's something that they would be interested in doing but the current live game demands all resources right now and for the foreseeable future. One thing I think might be a contentious point is which patch level to bring them up at, if any of you have a preference I'd be interested to hear what patch in SWG was your favourite, for example, Pre-CU pre Publish 9, the CU or some other specific time?
The patch just before the NGE was released. We were never allowed to play Mustafar fully nor were we allowed to see where that branch would have gone. I feel that it would have been perfectly fine to play CU with all of the new stuff Mustafar was bringing. Who knows why they chose to stick with the NGE, especially that version they released. It was absolutely wretched. CU with all of the new stuff added would have been a pretty darned good product. The game did not lag like it does now and it was not the nuclear blow to professions and skills that the NGE has been.
Would I subscribe to an official SOE run Pre-CU server. Yes.
Would I allow myself to get as attached to the game as I did Pre-CU (and now other MMOs)? No.
I had a chat with some of the Dev team last year about the possibility of bringing up a classic/origins server, it's something that they would be interested in doing but the current live game demands all resources right now and for the foreseeable future.
One thing I think might be a contentious point is which patch level to bring them up at, if any of you have a preference I'd be interested to hear what patch in SWG was your favourite, for example, Pre-CU pre Publish 9, the CU or some other specific time?
The patch just before the NGE was released. We were never allowed to play Mustafar fully nor were we allowed to see where that branch would have gone. I feel that it would have been perfectly fine to play CU with all of the new stuff Mustafar was bringing. Who knows why they chose to stick with the NGE, especially that version they released. It was absolutely wretched. CU with all of the new stuff added would have been a pretty darned good product. The game did not lag like it does now and it was not the nuclear blow to professions and skills that the NGE has been.
Tbh the game seemed to be finally coming around due to bug and issue fixes at various points in its history. Unfortunately, it was often right around these times that someone higher up the food chain seemed to panic and hit the self-destruct button. Seems to be a lot of "find the magic formula to make us all stinking rich before the end of this business quarter" thinking. Not healthy.
As for the dangled carrot of possible pre-cu servers, SOE seems to have a habit of dangling carrots that either never materialize or turn out to be a turd painted orange upon closer inspection. If you do get your carrot, it may be broken. If it's not, it may be taken away just before you take a bite. Now apparently you can pay cash for a random chance of getting a carrot. What fun.
If it was 3 years ago, I would have said yes, but now with the "rookie" dev team SWG has, I wouldn't touch it with a 49.5 mile pole. SOE would have to hire a seperate team that knows about pre-CU to maintain it since the current team most likely wouldn't be capable of it (32 profs was a task to take care of even with a 75+ man team back then).
I chose choking the wife before giving SOE money, that's a pretty funny one.
The patch just before the NGE was released. We were never allowed to play Mustafar fully nor were we allowed to see where that branch would have gone. I feel that it would have been perfectly fine to play CU with all of the new stuff Mustafar was bringing. Who knows why they chose to stick with the NGE, especially that version they released. It was absolutely wretched. CU with all of the new stuff added would have been a pretty darned good product. The game did not lag like it does now and it was not the nuclear blow to professions and skills that the NGE has been.
If I'm thinking of the right patch (publish 24) with the squadleader revamp, IMO that was one of the BEST patches of SWG's 2.5~ years of live, squadleader/BH was a phenominal combination and competed with smuggler's last ditch for major burst damage that scared many Jedi at the time. My Jedi at the time was a dabbler with 4400 defender and x4xx enhancer for 92% armor (or was it 94%), most people wasn't able to take me down until a squadleader/BH managed to, wow the huge damage ate my force bar in seconds (the more damage force armor took, the more force points it consumed).
PVP was actually ALOT of fun for the last 2 weeks of the CU before the NGE.
Also for "me" no emulator will even be considered. I think anyone who has tried the various emulators all the way back to the first UO emu servers.. knows why on that one. Obviously other people have their own point of view which will most likely be the opposite of mine.
I agree about the lack of quality of past emulators, but why prejudge future emulators? That makes absolutely no sense. Probability might not be in an swg emu's favor but probability is not a reason to at least consider when one is done.
Illogical I say!
You do realize that they have still have emulated servers up till the current generation of MMO's... so I say quite logical.
I would consider the software... to the point that if I can run my own server on my own network I would dork around with it now and then.
That would be the start/end of my consideration.
I guess I would say that what is logical for me... doesn't have to be logical for you. I never said you couldn't join an emu server if you choose to... I'm perfectly happy if everyone can find what they want game wise. I'll never demand anything be changed just to suit me... /shrug
*edited for grammar ahem and new mistakes made for balance*
"I guess I would say that what is logical for me... doesn't have to be logical for you."
yes, it does. Logic doesn't change from person to person. 2+2 is always 4. I think what you mean is that the factors that influence your decision on the subject are different then mine. But you have yet to give a factor that would explain the logic of your decision regarding all future emulators. If the first sentence in your post was such a factor then I appologize because I couldn't understand it.
Yes and there is this thing about logic that you somehow fail to grasp. Which is why I was trying to be nice about it.
There have been a few people who have seemed to rather politely try to get this point across.
No I'm not trying to infer that my expectations or view of random factors differs from yours. I was trying to be polite and unlike you act as if there was another way "things could be".
You are actually trying to apply a logic path tho.
Its more or less called "I am right and everyone else is wrong".
Yes oddly enough I actually took logic classes in college.. and I still remember quite a bit about it.
Logic... math its very nice... its relative to why Einstein said that the definition of insanity was repeating the same process and expecting a different outcome.
Oddly enough .. it kinda applies to much of what has been in this thread.
Oh and if you want to think I was inferring something I guess I'll relate it this way.
Some people think Pre-CU SWG was the best game they ever played.
Some people think Pre-CU sucked.
When and if an emulator launches some people will think its awesome.
Some people will think it sucks and doesn't even compare to the "pre-cu" they played.
That's why games, like art are called "subjective matter" because there is no universal definitive statement that can be made about them.
Yet you keep saying that the EMU can and probably will be awesome. The issue is the only factor that will be used in this rating system is your own point of view. If people don't agree with you, they are either wrong or ignoring the logical path that can't alter from one person to another. (this is more or less the definition of subjective experience).
As I said this is actually a logical arguement and I already told you which one it is. There are actually many defined logic arguements and oddly enough logic isn't exactly as definitive as you tried to make it out.
Previous EMU's are a perfectly valid source of data. Simply because every EMU (except one) has gotten to their final version by the exact same method. Packet capture.. decryption etc haven't suddenly taken some evolutionary step.
The one exception that I know of was L2 simply because the source code was "stolen" (the term nc soft used at the time). Having the source kinda puts a different spin on things..
Beyond the people actually trying to recreate an emulated server. You then move to the people who will host that server.. the cost involved.. the resources they can put into a server they have to run for free.
Because if they don't run it for free.. they will move into the same category of some of those L2 servers and if you don't know that story it may be worth a google.
So yes I have a pretty much rock solid personal point of view where any EMU will end up.. given the current reality of how they have to be created and run.
If I'm wrong.. I'll come back here and apologize... for now I'm going to stop spamming this thread.
Comments
The server communities made pre-cu what it was, not SOE, not the Star Wars franchise and certainly not the game mechanics... the community was the no.1 driving force that made the game as enjoyable as it was for so many people. That community is long gone, even a 100% flawless pre-cu replica can't bring that back. Pre-Cu is dead.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
A poll would not be as accurate as the actual proof ,of the direction the game was headed before PREnge.
The player base headed towards 100k,that is why SOE listened to many who wanted a simpler version of the game.I have no idea how many players are playing now,but i doubt 100k returnees would help anything and even then,of those 100k that would have been left on a pre NGE game,many of those did not care for the system that was in place,so it would have been a drab few that would have cared.
What actually happened was the constant bitching and complaining caused many who just wanted to play the game no matter what to leave,so it ruined the numbers worse than it really should have.So anything pre NGE would FAIL then as it would now as well.
COULD SOE open a few servers to accommodate the PRE NGE players? no doubt,but i doubt they would want to implement two different games for the sake of accommodating probably an actual 50k players at most.I have never seen any developer try to run two different versions of their game,i don't expect to see it ever happen.So SOE chose one direction and by the failing numbers the game had PRE NGE,it was the correct decision,what they did not expect was the alias by the immature who could not accept change.Simply leaving would have been fine,it would not have caused a negative influence on the game,but a drab few immature ruined it for everyone.I guess you could also throw SELFISH into the immature mix as it also fits the bill.
Asking the players here on MMORPG what they would do ,does little to making a game happen,as no one here invests any money into SOE games.It actually cost SOE money to change the game around so it was a VERY bold and aggressive move to try and save the game,the VETS did NOTHING to save the game,instead they asked for a SELFISH approach to save THEIR game not the game EVERYONE wanted.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Ya know.....I hate what they did......but I loved the game, to me it was and still could be the best set up for a MMO.
so Yea, i'd go back and rekindle what was lost, and see if it would/could be as great as it was =P
On the contrary, the "vets" did everything they could to save the game... not once but twice in th form of mass cancellations. If refusing to pay to play a shitty game is selfish, chalk me up as one seriously selfish son of a bitch.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
So if I go to the grocery store and find some rotten vegetables, refuse to buy them, and complain to the store manager, I'm being immature? Same situation here, except the grocery store manager would quickly remove the rotten product from the store shelves. If the store continued to sell said rotten merchandise and I decided to warn fellow consumers about the place, am I being immature then? Yes, that would likely have a negative impact (hopefully) on the stores finances, but would it be wrong and selfish of me to not want my fellow consumer to get scammed?
SOE continues to sell rotten product, and those of us who like fresh product will continue to warn fellow consumers about it. I'm sorry you would like to eat what they sell you, and you think we are being selfish for wanting SOE to face justice for ripping people off.
Here's another perspective for you.
We have nothing to lose here, we've already lost our game and many of us have gotten over that loss. You on the other hand are trying to hold on to something very tightly, to the point of posting here in an extremely condecending and dare I say it, immature manner, and appear to be coming from a place of fear. Who is being selfish in this situation? I'm not expecting an answer, I just want you to think about it.
The server communities made pre-cu what it was, not SOE, not the Star Wars franchise and certainly not the game mechanics... the community was the no.1 driving force that made the game as enjoyable as it was for so many people. That community is long gone, even a 100% flawless pre-cu replica can't bring that back. Pre-Cu is dead.
the game chooses the players just as much as the players choose the game. Individuals may have been lost but precu will always draw precu type players. So as long as there is enough interest to make a good sized population then it'll be just like old times.
I feel like I just stated the obvious, so maybe you have a related problem with precu coming back i.e. your particular precu friends wouldn't want to play it again and you wouldn't want to play it without them? ..that's my guess.
I wanted to get in on the game when it was new, but was never able to because of school committments. Then when I was able to get in, SOE started screwing it all up. So needless to say I never got to really experience the greatness of orginal SWG. Therefore, I would definately play because it would be like a totally new MMO for me!
I had a chat with some of the Dev team last year about the possibility of bringing up a classic/origins server, it's something that they would be interested in doing but the current live game demands all resources right now and for the foreseeable future.
One thing I think might be a contentious point is which patch level to bring them up at, if any of you have a preference I'd be interested to hear what patch in SWG was your favourite, for example, Pre-CU pre Publish 9, the CU or some other specific time?
That's a bogus argument. They are capable of supporting multiple games on station pass -- EQ1 and EQ2 is a great example. In that more people would play anything pre-NGE, that would mean more revenue than they get for the NGE, and therefore they would have more resources for a pre-NGE server.
The problem is, when that happened, heads would roll, specifically Smedley's. It would prove beyond any doubt that he was an idiot.
Everything they do there is all about protecting the Smedley.
fishermage.blogspot.com
The game was failing because SOE was a terrible developer, and never fixed a broken game. The proof of that is the fact that the NGE didn't make anything better.
The immature ones were the people at SOE who felt that you could increase your profit by screwing your customers.
That shows an immature and childish approach to business. The customers reacted maturely and predictably, and thus, the NGE failed.
fishermage.blogspot.com
The server communities made pre-cu what it was, not SOE, not the Star Wars franchise and certainly not the game mechanics... the community was the no.1 driving force that made the game as enjoyable as it was for so many people. That community is long gone, even a 100% flawless pre-cu replica can't bring that back. Pre-Cu is dead.
the game chooses the players just as much as the players choose the game. Individuals may have been lost but precu will always draw precu type players. So as long as there is enough interest to make a good sized population then it'll be just like old times.
I feel like I just stated the obvious, so maybe you have a related problem with precu coming back i.e. your particular precu friends wouldn't want to play it again and you wouldn't want to play it without them? ..that's my guess.
Your last paragraph is somewhat true, it certainly touches on the situation in my opinion. Where I think we differ is the community that the emu could draw in the future, infact the community that it's already drawn in. What we (as precu players) happily forget is that there were just as many "1337" asshats that stood for 12 hours a day outside random SP's duelling and talking shit. SWG was as rife with it as WoW or any other mmo for that matter was or is. What I've seen of the emu is that it's brought those fools back, and in force. Now, on a live SOE operated server with 3000-5000 people it was easy to ignore the fools, on an emu server, not so easy. The emu test center is already full of such idiots, it's a sign of things to come in my opinion, an opinion that's probably widely shared due to the fact that out of an ingame friends list of 500 and a guild at one time numbering 450+ I know of no-one, not a single person that's planning on playing on an emu server.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
There is just no way I could trust the current management at soe with my subscription dollar.
If they aren't drastically screwing up a game they seem to divert my money to build cash malls and things of that nature, instead of working on retaining my subscription through good service.
Nothing and I mean nothing currently makes them trustworthy.
The server communities made pre-cu what it was, not SOE, not the Star Wars franchise and certainly not the game mechanics... the community was the no.1 driving force that made the game as enjoyable as it was for so many people. That community is long gone, even a 100% flawless pre-cu replica can't bring that back. Pre-Cu is dead.
the game chooses the players just as much as the players choose the game. Individuals may have been lost but precu will always draw precu type players. So as long as there is enough interest to make a good sized population then it'll be just like old times.
I feel like I just stated the obvious, so maybe you have a related problem with precu coming back i.e. your particular precu friends wouldn't want to play it again and you wouldn't want to play it without them? ..that's my guess.
Your last paragraph is somewhat true, it certainly touches on the situation in my opinion. Where I think we differ is the community that the emu could draw in the future, infact the community that it's already drawn in. What we (as precu players) happily forget is that there were just as many "1337" asshats that stood for 12 hours a day outside random SP's duelling and talking shit. SWG was as rife with it as WoW or any other mmo for that matter was or is. What I've seen of the emu is that it's brought those fools back, and in force. Now, on a live SOE operated server with 3000-5000 people it was easy to ignore the fools, on an emu server, not so easy. The emu test center is already full of such idiots, it's a sign of things to come in my opinion, an opinion that's probably widely shared due to the fact that out of an ingame friends list of 500 and a guild at one time numbering 450+ I know of no-one, not a single person that's planning on playing on an emu server.
I'm not sure I understand. You seem to be saying that you're afraid the emu will draw the same crowd the precu had before which would contradict your praise of the precu community in your last post, "The server communities made pre-cu what it was".
and why was it easy to ignore the idiots on a live soe server, but wont be on an emu server? You didn't really explain. If your reasoning was that there were a ton more players then I'd reply, really? how do you know (comparing the most popular emu server to the average soe server)? and wouldn't the proportion be the same? and how did more players make it easier to ignore the asshats?
Your last statement is suspect imo. I think you're exaggerating because it's probably 4 years after you've actually had contact with most of the 500 players on your precu friends list. And if they're on your current NGE friends list then...
either way, you can't generalize the experience that others will have just because your particular friends aren't playing.
precu obviously had it's fair share of asshats but by no means was the precu community synonymous with the WoW community. I think they have similarities, of course, but are certainly different as a whole due to the environmental influence that their respective games provide. Not only does precu draw a different bunch, but it can make users act differently then they normally would in other games.
I agree about the lack of quality of past emulators, but why prejudge future emulators? That makes absolutely no sense. Probability might not be in an swg emu's favor but probability is not a reason to at least consider when one is done.
Illogical I say!
You do realize that they have still have emulated servers up till the current generation of MMO's... so I say quite logical.
I would consider the software... to the point that if I can run my own server on my own network I would dork around with it now and then.
That would be the start/end of my consideration.
I guess I would say that what is logical for me... doesn't have to be logical for you. I never said you couldn't join an emu server if you choose to... I'm perfectly happy if everyone can find what they want game wise. I'll never demand anything be changed just to suit me... /shrug
*edited for grammar ahem and new mistakes made for balance*
I agree about the lack of quality of past emulators, but why prejudge future emulators? That makes absolutely no sense. Probability might not be in an swg emu's favor but probability is not a reason to at least consider when one is done.
Illogical I say!
You do realize that they have still have emulated servers up till the current generation of MMO's... so I say quite logical.
I would consider the software... to the point that if I can run my own server on my own network I would dork around with it now and then.
That would be the start/end of my consideration.
I guess I would say that what is logical for me... doesn't have to be logical for you. I never said you couldn't join an emu server if you choose to... I'm perfectly happy if everyone can find what they want game wise. I'll never demand anything be changed just to suit me... /shrug
*edited for grammar ahem and new mistakes made for balance*
"I guess I would say that what is logical for me... doesn't have to be logical for you."
yes, it does. Logic doesn't change from person to person. 2+2 is always 4. I think what you mean is that the factors that influence your decision on the subject are different then mine. But you have yet to give a factor that would explain the logic of your decision regarding all future emulators. If the first sentence in your post was such a factor then I appologize because I couldn't understand it.
The server communities made pre-cu what it was, not SOE, not the Star Wars franchise and certainly not the game mechanics... the community was the no.1 driving force that made the game as enjoyable as it was for so many people. That community is long gone, even a 100% flawless pre-cu replica can't bring that back. Pre-Cu is dead.
the game chooses the players just as much as the players choose the game. Individuals may have been lost but precu will always draw precu type players. So as long as there is enough interest to make a good sized population then it'll be just like old times.
I feel like I just stated the obvious, so maybe you have a related problem with precu coming back i.e. your particular precu friends wouldn't want to play it again and you wouldn't want to play it without them? ..that's my guess.
Your last paragraph is somewhat true, it certainly touches on the situation in my opinion. Where I think we differ is the community that the emu could draw in the future, infact the community that it's already drawn in. What we (as precu players) happily forget is that there were just as many "1337" asshats that stood for 12 hours a day outside random SP's duelling and talking shit. SWG was as rife with it as WoW or any other mmo for that matter was or is. What I've seen of the emu is that it's brought those fools back, and in force. Now, on a live SOE operated server with 3000-5000 people it was easy to ignore the fools, on an emu server, not so easy. The emu test center is already full of such idiots, it's a sign of things to come in my opinion, an opinion that's probably widely shared due to the fact that out of an ingame friends list of 500 and a guild at one time numbering 450+ I know of no-one, not a single person that's planning on playing on an emu server.
I'm not sure I understand. You seem to be saying that you're afraid the emu will draw the same crowd the precu had before which would contradict your praise of the precu community in your last post, "The server communities made pre-cu what it was".
and why was it easy to ignore the idiots on a live soe server, but wont be on an emu server? You didn't really explain. If your reasoning was that there were a ton more players then I'd reply, really? how do you know (comparing the most popular emu server to the average soe server)? and wouldn't the proportion be the same? and how did more players make it easier to ignore the asshats?
Your last statement is suspect imo. I think you're exaggerating because it's probably 4 years after you've actually had contact with most of the 500 players on your precu friends list. And if they're on your current NGE friends list then...
either way, you can't generalize the experience that others will have just because your particular friends aren't playing.
precu obviously had it's fair share of asshats but by no means was the precu community synonymous with the WoW community. I think they have similarities, of course, but are certainly different as a whole due to the environmental influence that their respective games provide. Not only does precu draw a different bunch, but it can make users act differently then they normally would in other games.
I don't know I think I explained it pretty well, if you need it made any clearer let me put it this way, 50-100 asshats on a server of 3-5k, pretty well watered down, hell lets round that up and say 300-500 even though there weren't that many really, so 10% asshats. Now take a stroll around the emu test center, 75% asshats? I'd say more tbqh because that seems to be pretty much the only type of player that they've manages to bring in. Maybe the fact that the emphasis they put on Jedi started that, I don't know but either way their server is frequented by idiots.
On the numbers,no it's not an exaggeration, I'm not personally in contact with all of the 500 people that were on my friends list obviously, I am in contact with people in various guilds though, which probably represent an overall number greater than 500, none plan to play SWG emu afaik. My guild is largely intact, not in any particular game and not particularly active on the forums but again, friends of friends etc all stayed intouch in one way or another and again, none plan to play the emu.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
The server communities made pre-cu what it was, not SOE, not the Star Wars franchise and certainly not the game mechanics... the community was the no.1 driving force that made the game as enjoyable as it was for so many people. That community is long gone, even a 100% flawless pre-cu replica can't bring that back. Pre-Cu is dead.
the game chooses the players just as much as the players choose the game. Individuals may have been lost but precu will always draw precu type players. So as long as there is enough interest to make a good sized population then it'll be just like old times.
I feel like I just stated the obvious, so maybe you have a related problem with precu coming back i.e. your particular precu friends wouldn't want to play it again and you wouldn't want to play it without them? ..that's my guess.
Your last paragraph is somewhat true, it certainly touches on the situation in my opinion. Where I think we differ is the community that the emu could draw in the future, infact the community that it's already drawn in. What we (as precu players) happily forget is that there were just as many "1337" asshats that stood for 12 hours a day outside random SP's duelling and talking shit. SWG was as rife with it as WoW or any other mmo for that matter was or is. What I've seen of the emu is that it's brought those fools back, and in force. Now, on a live SOE operated server with 3000-5000 people it was easy to ignore the fools, on an emu server, not so easy. The emu test center is already full of such idiots, it's a sign of things to come in my opinion, an opinion that's probably widely shared due to the fact that out of an ingame friends list of 500 and a guild at one time numbering 450+ I know of no-one, not a single person that's planning on playing on an emu server.
I'm not sure I understand. You seem to be saying that you're afraid the emu will draw the same crowd the precu had before which would contradict your praise of the precu community in your last post, "The server communities made pre-cu what it was".
and why was it easy to ignore the idiots on a live soe server, but wont be on an emu server? You didn't really explain. If your reasoning was that there were a ton more players then I'd reply, really? how do you know (comparing the most popular emu server to the average soe server)? and wouldn't the proportion be the same? and how did more players make it easier to ignore the asshats?
Your last statement is suspect imo. I think you're exaggerating because it's probably 4 years after you've actually had contact with most of the 500 players on your precu friends list. And if they're on your current NGE friends list then...
either way, you can't generalize the experience that others will have just because your particular friends aren't playing.
precu obviously had it's fair share of asshats but by no means was the precu community synonymous with the WoW community. I think they have similarities, of course, but are certainly different as a whole due to the environmental influence that their respective games provide. Not only does precu draw a different bunch, but it can make users act differently then they normally would in other games.
I don't know I think I explained it pretty well, if you need it made any clearer let me put it this way, 50-100 asshats on a server of 3-5k, pretty well watered down, hell lets round that up and say 300-500 even though there weren't that many really, so 10% asshats. Now take a stroll around the emu test center, 75% asshats? I'd say more tbqh because that seems to be pretty much the only type of player that they've manages to bring in. Maybe the fact that the emphasis they put on Jedi started that, I don't know but either way their server is frequented by idiots.
On the numbers,no it's not an exaggeration, I'm not personally in contact with all of the 500 people that were on my friends list obviously, I am in contact with people in various guilds though, which probably represent an overall number greater than 500, none plan to play SWG emu afaik. My guild is largely intact, not in any particular game and not particularly active on the forums but again, friends of friends etc all stayed intouch in one way or another and again, none plan to play the emu.
I can't argue with your opinion of what constitutes and asshat or with your guesstimation survey. I do know however, that a testing environment is not the same as a live one and that there are a ton of people waiting to play version 1.0.
and I think you're just pessimistic about the whole thing.
I had a chat with some of the Dev team last year about the possibility of bringing up a classic/origins server, it's something that they would be interested in doing but the current live game demands all resources right now and for the foreseeable future.
One thing I think might be a contentious point is which patch level to bring them up at, if any of you have a preference I'd be interested to hear what patch in SWG was your favourite, for example, Pre-CU pre Publish 9, the CU or some other specific time?
That's a load of crap, no offense.
SOE will NEVER bring up pre-nge, pre-CU servers. Why not? Because then they would have to admit they were wrong. SOE doesn't do that no matter how obvious their wrongitude is.
The game was failing because SOE was a terrible developer, and never fixed a broken game. The proof of that is the fact that the NGE didn't make anything better.
The immature ones were the people at SOE who felt that you could increase your profit by screwing your customers.
That shows an immature and childish approach to business. The customers reacted maturely and predictably, and thus, the NGE failed.
I agree with Fisher, and here's why:
Around release time, it seems that many left because things were broken and incomplete. Around CU time it seems people left because their game was changed in ways that really hurt their progress and ruined things they enjoyed. Around NGE time it seems that people left because the bugs and issues made the game completely unplayable at first, the new expansion was gutted, and most professions were simply removed. Now people are leaving because some new content is no longer included in the price of the subscription. It's only introduced into the game via RMT, and you only have a random chance at new items after paying real cash.
What part of that suggests that players are selfish and immature?
And, players did work hard to try to save the game they loved. They beta tested, they tested on TC, they posted bug and issues threads, they sent petitions, they worked with devs to try to fix the original game, and had most of these efforts scrapped. When they gave input, they were often ignored, or told that a broken quest was "working as intended." When they gave input more loudly, they sometimes found themselves banned.
No, it seems that this game did so badly due to a history of catastrophic decisions, that were made despite the very loud protests of its players, time and time again.
I had a chat with some of the Dev team last year about the possibility of bringing up a classic/origins server, it's something that they would be interested in doing but the current live game demands all resources right now and for the foreseeable future.
One thing I think might be a contentious point is which patch level to bring them up at, if any of you have a preference I'd be interested to hear what patch in SWG was your favourite, for example, Pre-CU pre Publish 9, the CU or some other specific time?
The patch just before the NGE was released. We were never allowed to play Mustafar fully nor were we allowed to see where that branch would have gone. I feel that it would have been perfectly fine to play CU with all of the new stuff Mustafar was bringing. Who knows why they chose to stick with the NGE, especially that version they released. It was absolutely wretched. CU with all of the new stuff added would have been a pretty darned good product. The game did not lag like it does now and it was not the nuclear blow to professions and skills that the NGE has been.
Akevv Ostone
No Longer SWG Free
I had a chat with some of the Dev team last year about the possibility of bringing up a classic/origins server, it's something that they would be interested in doing but the current live game demands all resources right now and for the foreseeable future.
One thing I think might be a contentious point is which patch level to bring them up at, if any of you have a preference I'd be interested to hear what patch in SWG was your favourite, for example, Pre-CU pre Publish 9, the CU or some other specific time?
The patch just before the NGE was released. We were never allowed to play Mustafar fully nor were we allowed to see where that branch would have gone. I feel that it would have been perfectly fine to play CU with all of the new stuff Mustafar was bringing. Who knows why they chose to stick with the NGE, especially that version they released. It was absolutely wretched. CU with all of the new stuff added would have been a pretty darned good product. The game did not lag like it does now and it was not the nuclear blow to professions and skills that the NGE has been.
Tbh the game seemed to be finally coming around due to bug and issue fixes at various points in its history. Unfortunately, it was often right around these times that someone higher up the food chain seemed to panic and hit the self-destruct button. Seems to be a lot of "find the magic formula to make us all stinking rich before the end of this business quarter" thinking. Not healthy.
As for the dangled carrot of possible pre-cu servers, SOE seems to have a habit of dangling carrots that either never materialize or turn out to be a turd painted orange upon closer inspection. If you do get your carrot, it may be broken. If it's not, it may be taken away just before you take a bite. Now apparently you can pay cash for a random chance of getting a carrot. What fun.
If it was 3 years ago, I would have said yes, but now with the "rookie" dev team SWG has, I wouldn't touch it with a 49.5 mile pole. SOE would have to hire a seperate team that knows about pre-CU to maintain it since the current team most likely wouldn't be capable of it (32 profs was a task to take care of even with a 75+ man team back then).
I chose choking the wife before giving SOE money, that's a pretty funny one.
PVP was actually ALOT of fun for the last 2 weeks of the CU before the NGE.
I agree about the lack of quality of past emulators, but why prejudge future emulators? That makes absolutely no sense. Probability might not be in an swg emu's favor but probability is not a reason to at least consider when one is done.
Illogical I say!
You do realize that they have still have emulated servers up till the current generation of MMO's... so I say quite logical.
I would consider the software... to the point that if I can run my own server on my own network I would dork around with it now and then.
That would be the start/end of my consideration.
I guess I would say that what is logical for me... doesn't have to be logical for you. I never said you couldn't join an emu server if you choose to... I'm perfectly happy if everyone can find what they want game wise. I'll never demand anything be changed just to suit me... /shrug
*edited for grammar ahem and new mistakes made for balance*
"I guess I would say that what is logical for me... doesn't have to be logical for you."
yes, it does. Logic doesn't change from person to person. 2+2 is always 4. I think what you mean is that the factors that influence your decision on the subject are different then mine. But you have yet to give a factor that would explain the logic of your decision regarding all future emulators. If the first sentence in your post was such a factor then I appologize because I couldn't understand it.
Yes and there is this thing about logic that you somehow fail to grasp. Which is why I was trying to be nice about it.
There have been a few people who have seemed to rather politely try to get this point across.
No I'm not trying to infer that my expectations or view of random factors differs from yours. I was trying to be polite and unlike you act as if there was another way "things could be".
You are actually trying to apply a logic path tho.
Its more or less called "I am right and everyone else is wrong".
Yes oddly enough I actually took logic classes in college.. and I still remember quite a bit about it.
Logic... math its very nice... its relative to why Einstein said that the definition of insanity was repeating the same process and expecting a different outcome.
Oddly enough .. it kinda applies to much of what has been in this thread.
Oh and if you want to think I was inferring something I guess I'll relate it this way.
Some people think Pre-CU SWG was the best game they ever played.
Some people think Pre-CU sucked.
When and if an emulator launches some people will think its awesome.
Some people will think it sucks and doesn't even compare to the "pre-cu" they played.
That's why games, like art are called "subjective matter" because there is no universal definitive statement that can be made about them.
Yet you keep saying that the EMU can and probably will be awesome. The issue is the only factor that will be used in this rating system is your own point of view. If people don't agree with you, they are either wrong or ignoring the logical path that can't alter from one person to another. (this is more or less the definition of subjective experience).
As I said this is actually a logical arguement and I already told you which one it is. There are actually many defined logic arguements and oddly enough logic isn't exactly as definitive as you tried to make it out.
Previous EMU's are a perfectly valid source of data. Simply because every EMU (except one) has gotten to their final version by the exact same method. Packet capture.. decryption etc haven't suddenly taken some evolutionary step.
The one exception that I know of was L2 simply because the source code was "stolen" (the term nc soft used at the time). Having the source kinda puts a different spin on things..
Beyond the people actually trying to recreate an emulated server. You then move to the people who will host that server.. the cost involved.. the resources they can put into a server they have to run for free.
Because if they don't run it for free.. they will move into the same category of some of those L2 servers and if you don't know that story it may be worth a google.
So yes I have a pretty much rock solid personal point of view where any EMU will end up.. given the current reality of how they have to be created and run.
If I'm wrong.. I'll come back here and apologize... for now I'm going to stop spamming this thread.
Thank you for a nice discussion.