I think DDO ultimately was the perfect example of "careful what you wish for...". They tried really hard to make the game as close to the PnP game as possible, and as it turned out, alot of that stuff just didn't translate well into realtime. I preordered my copy and was there on day 1. I liked it for being, really, the first MMO(at the time) where your character onscreen actually acted like a character and not just a placeholder representation of a character. You crouched, you jumped(your distance and control based on your actual jump skill), when you climbed ladders, your hands and feel actually grabbed the rungs, etc. Here's what blew it for me: The community. People that only wanted to run that 3 parter in the sewers because of the loot. People who would reveal what happened next and tell you to "stand over there, a bunch of goblins are going to pop out after I pull this lever". People trying to zerg their way to 10th level asap. People who'd enter the dungeon and take off running, setting off EVERY trap so the healer had to blow spells on them or take them to the rez stone, all while denying the rogue the XP for disarming those traps. The guy in every party who left his mic on while he was eating and snorting like a rhinocerous... So eventually I just started creating characters so I could solo the dungeons, just so I could slow down and enjoy them. Eventually that got dull since many of the dungeons were only soloable if you had a couple levels up on the dungeon, which would then give you almost no XP for that reason. I quit after about 2 months. The game itself wasn't bad at all, and it certainly had the best instanced dungeons at the time and possibly even now. They made what the PnP fanbois wanted, and as it turns out, that wasn't quite what many of us hoped in many ways that they had no power over.
After all this hubub, I decided to resub to DDO. I haven't played in six months and all these idiots bashing my second favourite MMO of all time just made me miss it more.
Although I laughed at your description of "The guy in every party who left his mic on while he was eating and snorting like a rhinocerous..." (BTW I have had a macro to spam "Turn on push to talk idiot" since mod 1), your complaints about Zerging can apply to pretty much any game out there. It is a natural desire for most people to want to progress to the highest level possible as fast as possible in any game. However in DDO it is more obvious due to the nature of the game. Zerging low level dungeons replaces grinding mob spawns. Which is better? I guess that is up to the preferences of the individual player. I for one would rather run "Water Works" 200 times than kill 200 orcs or wolves or badgers or whatever.
As for you complaint about rogues and traps, you are obviously coming from an uninformed viewpoint. The trluth is that many mods ago the devs made it much more uninviting to simply run through traps. Hawever, even if it is still possible and widely done, the traps are still able to be neutralized for a brilliant XP bonus (depending on the quest) of up to 15%.
Also the fact that people can "Reveal what is next" is something really different from pretty much every mmo i have ever played. In most MMOs what's next is just walk around the corner and viola there are some mobs to fight. Walk into this field/cave/runnel/plateau and there are mobs there which you kill/loot/wait for respawn. DDO is different, like it or don't, play or don't, but don't complain about how different it is from the WoW standard that everyone seems to love. It never claimed to be that and it never will.
Oh and as for your statement "They tried really hard to make the game as close to the PnP game as possible, and as it turned out, alot of that stuff just didn't translate well into realtime.", barring NWN1/2 DDO is the closest thing to D&D a contemporary video game has ever come. + some monty haul issues but I believe those are inherant to any MMO.
Playing no time for games Played UO, DDO, AoC, WoW, VG, EQ2, AO
I think DDO ultimately was the perfect example of "careful what you wish for...". They tried really hard to make the game as close to the PnP game as possible, and as it turned out, alot of that stuff just didn't translate well into realtime. I preordered my copy and was there on day 1. I liked it for being, really, the first MMO(at the time) where your character onscreen actually acted like a character and not just a placeholder representation of a character. You crouched, you jumped(your distance and control based on your actual jump skill), when you climbed ladders, your hands and feel actually grabbed the rungs, etc. Here's what blew it for me: The community. People that only wanted to run that 3 parter in the sewers because of the loot. People who would reveal what happened next and tell you to "stand over there, a bunch of goblins are going to pop out after I pull this lever". People trying to zerg their way to 10th level asap. People who'd enter the dungeon and take off running, setting off EVERY trap so the healer had to blow spells on them or take them to the rez stone, all while denying the rogue the XP for disarming those traps. The guy in every party who left his mic on while he was eating and snorting like a rhinocerous... So eventually I just started creating characters so I could solo the dungeons, just so I could slow down and enjoy them. Eventually that got dull since many of the dungeons were only soloable if you had a couple levels up on the dungeon, which would then give you almost no XP for that reason. I quit after about 2 months. The game itself wasn't bad at all, and it certainly had the best instanced dungeons at the time and possibly even now. They made what the PnP fanbois wanted, and as it turns out, that wasn't quite what many of us hoped in many ways that they had no power over.
After all this hubub, I decided to resub to DDO. I haven't played in six months and all these idiots bashing my second favourite MMO of all time just made me miss it more.
Although I laughed at your description of "The guy in every party who left his mic on while he was eating and snorting like a rhinocerous..." (BTW I have had a macro to spam "Turn on push to talk idiot" since mod 1), your complaints about Zerging can apply to pretty much any game out there. It is a natural desire for most people to want to progress to the highest level possible as fast as possible in any game. However in DDO it is more obvious due to the nature of the game. Zerging low level dungeons replaces grinding mob spawns. Which is better? I guess that is up to the preferences of the individual player. I for one would rather run "Water Works" 200 times than kill 200 orcs or wolves or badgers or whatever.
As for you complaint about rogues and traps, you are obviously coming from an uninformed viewpoint. The trluth is that many mods ago the devs made it much more uninviting to simply run through traps. Hawever, even if it is still possible and widely done, the traps are still able to be neutralized for a brilliant XP bonus (depending on the quest) of up to 15%.
Also the fact that people can "Reveal what is next" is something really different from pretty much every mmo i have ever played. In most MMOs what's next is just walk around the corner and viola there are some mobs to fight. Walk into this field/cave/runnel/plateau and there are mobs there which you kill/loot/wait for respawn. DDO is different, like it or don't, play or don't, but don't complain about how different it is from the WoW standard that everyone seems to love. It never claimed to be that and it never will.
Oh and as for your statement "They tried really hard to make the game as close to the PnP game as possible, and as it turned out, alot of that stuff just didn't translate well into realtime.", barring NWN1/2 DDO is the closest thing to D&D a contemporary video game has ever come. + some monty haul issues but I believe those are inherant to any MMO.
"As for you complaint about rogues and traps, you are obviously coming from an uninformed viewpoint."
Actually, my viewpoint, as in everything after my sentence starting with "What blew the game for me", is spot on. I iterated what made ME leave, which by default makes ME the most INFORMED person regarding that.
As for all your other points, these are things that blew what was good about the game. Who cares if somebody in City of Heroes tells you the plot of one of their cookie cutter instance missiona? But in DDO it DOES matter. Turning a switch and having the whole floor fall away is an experience that gets totally blown if somebody gives it away.
Think it doesn't? Try reading the PnP module that your DM is about to run you through. Fun, huh?
The zerging, the running through traps, all these things blew what was great about the game, which is the interaction of your party with the environment and the progression of the story. Other games just plop you down in an instance with baddies spread around, and if lucky, some triggered sounds here and there. In DDO, rooms matter.
...unless of course you've got some mouth breather telling you not to go in because it'll trigger an avalanche too early...
Turning a switch and having the whole floor fall away is an experience that gets totally blown if somebody gives it away.
Its better to have a spoiled surprise when that floor falls away then to never have a floor fall away at all.
Most new MMOG's have zero interactivity beyond a MOB's aggro radius. Are you saying those games are better because there are no surprises at all, ever? Its even rare to see a MMOG with doors these days let alone locked doors and god forbid that there be a trapped door.
Also, when there is an event that does something nasty like make a floor fall away, I usually tell the new player to stand in the middle of that floor rather than spoil their surprise.
Turning a switch and having the whole floor fall away is an experience that gets totally blown if somebody gives it away.
Its better to have a spoiled surprise when that floor falls away then to never have a floor fall away at all.
Most new MMOG's have zero interactivity beyond a MOB's aggro radius. Are you saying those games are better because there are no surprises at all, ever? Its even rare to see a MMOG with doors these days let alone locked doors and god forbid that there be a trapped door.
Also, when there is an event that does something nasty like make a floor fall away, I usually tell the new player to stand in the middle of that floor rather than spoil their surprise.
Nope. What I'm saying is that folks blew(for me) what was the best thing about the game and that's why I quit after 2 months. People keep replying to my post as though I'm attacking the game and I'm not. If a person neutralizes the best things about any game, people will leave that game. Or at least I will.
Matter of fact, somebody just started a new topic on their experiencing this very same thing.
Turning a switch and having the whole floor fall away is an experience that gets totally blown if somebody gives it away.
Its better to have a spoiled surprise when that floor falls away then to never have a floor fall away at all.
Most new MMOG's have zero interactivity beyond a MOB's aggro radius. Are you saying those games are better because there are no surprises at all, ever? Its even rare to see a MMOG with doors these days let alone locked doors and god forbid that there be a trapped door.
Also, when there is an event that does something nasty like make a floor fall away, I usually tell the new player to stand in the middle of that floor rather than spoil their surprise.
Nope. What I'm saying is that folks blew(for me) what was the best thing about the game and that's why I quit after 2 months. People keep replying to my post as though I'm attacking the game and I'm not. If a person neutralizes the best things about any game, people will leave that game. Or at least I will.
Matter of fact, somebody just started a new topic on their experiencing this very same thing.
Ok, so whay you said is ONLY your opinion, or at least you speak for yourself - fine . Fair enough to me. I can say I don't understand it very much, because I never had such problems with desing, but you made clear that it's only your opinion not a fact. So that's fine.
But there's no DDO which is killed, as I say for 1000th time, it's reviving now. Just come and see, maybe you'll change your mind now? Give it a try!
Nope. What I'm saying is that folks blew(for me) what was the best thing about the game and that's why I quit after 2 months. People keep replying to my post as though I'm attacking the game and I'm not. If a person neutralizes the best things about any game, people will leave that game. Or at least I will. Matter of fact, somebody just started a new topic on their experiencing this very same thing.
I can understand. I got lucky and started the game with my wife and two best friends. First time runs are fantastic in this game. Discovery and exploration are the best I have seen in any game, even single player games.
I can understand how it would effect your enjoyment of the game. There are lots of good reasons for people to dislike DDO. There are also a lot of people who hate DDO mainly because they couldn't adapt or weren't able to understand the game and weren't willing to try. I don't think that you're in the later category.
Originally posted by Aganazer I would like to add that the author of this review made one of the worst mistakes that the author of any MMOG can do. She didn't experience enough of the game to fully understand what makes the game compelling. It would be much more fitting if the "review" were renamed "impressions".
The review is titled an "Early Game Review", by which I presume it to be a review based on the early content, so, I'd say the reviewer made no "mistake". I don't want to have to level a toon up to a much higher level in order to start having "fun". If an MMO (or any game, really) starts out badly, that's usually it for me.
The other points you make in your post (on page 1 ) were valid and interesting. My chief concern with this MMO -- as with any MMO -- is soloability vs. grouping. I enjoy grouping with other players if there are any around, but I really hate being "stuck" and unable to move forward because of the inability to find a group. This is the bane of most MMOs, in my opinion, and it sounds (in DDO) as though it is a particularly vexing problem.
The other points you make in your post (on page 1 ) were valid and interesting. My chief concern with this MMO -- as with any MMO -- is soloability vs. grouping. I enjoy grouping with other players if there are any around, but I really hate being "stuck" and unable to move forward because of the inability to find a group. This is the bane of most MMOs, in my opinion, and it sounds (in DDO) as though it is a particularly vexing problem.
DDO is a very group focused game, which means most people are looking for groups which eases the finding a group problem. There are also some explorer areas which are more akin to standard MMO zones with grinding, rares and explorer bits.
The only major hiccup is a lot of people don't want to be the group leader, so people will wait for the quest they want rather than creating a group to do it. Actually a secondary hiccup is the LFG flag isn't used by people often, so new people pop it on and it gets ignored, which does need something doing about it.
I would like to add that the author of this review made one of the worst mistakes that the author of any MMOG can do. She didn't experience enough of the game to fully understand what makes the game compelling. It would be much more fitting if the "review" were renamed "impressions".
The review is titled an "Early Game Review", by which I presume it to be a review based on the early content, so, I'd say the reviewer made no "mistake". I don't want to have to level a toon up to a much higher level in order to start having "fun". If an MMO (or any game, really) starts out badly, that's usually it for me.
The other points you make in your post (on page 1 ) were valid and interesting. My chief concern with this MMO -- as with any MMO -- is soloability vs. grouping. I enjoy grouping with other players if there are any around, but I really hate being "stuck" and unable to move forward because of the inability to find a group. This is the bane of most MMOs, in my opinion, and it sounds (in DDO) as though it is a particularly vexing problem.
Hi! It was a mistake until Stradden, MMORPGs managing editior came here, and on 5th page made this comment:
Originally posted by Stradden:
*enters thread with head bowed low*
Hey guys,
I'm jumping in here to face the music and let everyone know that I screwed up. This article was submitted to me should have been labelled as an early game review and not with the weight of a re-review. I've corrected the mistake, and a full review, taking more elements of the game into account, will be forthcoming.
So, if you're all going to be mad at someone. That should probably be me and not the writer who was just completing the assignment I gave her.
So, as Optimus Prime would say in a moment that negated my childhood love of his cartoon... my bad.
Hi! It was a mistake until Stradden, MMORPGs managing editior came here, and on 5th page made this comment:
Originally posted by Stradden: *enters thread with head bowed low* Hey guys, I'm jumping in here to face the music and let everyone know that I screwed up. This article was submitted to me should have been labelled as an early game review and not with the weight of a re-review. I've corrected the mistake, and a full review, taking more elements of the game into account, will be forthcoming. So, if you're all going to be mad at someone. That should probably be me and not the writer who was just completing the assignment I gave her. So, as Optimus Prime would say in a moment that negated my childhood love of his cartoon... my bad. The link to this post: www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2654754#2654754
Thanks for pointing that out Sarr.
I also didn't mean that the reviewer needs to experience end game content or even mid game content. All she needed to do was to figure out what makes the game compelling for the subscribers. I figure that every game has some aspect of it that sets it apart from the other games on the market. The author commented twice that there was nothing that sets DDO apart from other MMOG's. That is simply not true and it doesn't take more than a few hours of playing to figure that out.
Had she acknowledged DDO's strengths then went on the criticize DDO's weaknesses I wouldn't even have commented in the first place.
Nope. What I'm saying is that folks blew(for me) what was the best thing about the game and that's why I quit after 2 months. People keep replying to my post as though I'm attacking the game and I'm not. If a person neutralizes the best things about any game, people will leave that game. Or at least I will. Matter of fact, somebody just started a new topic on their experiencing this very same thing.
I can understand. I got lucky and started the game with my wife and two best friends. First time runs are fantastic in this game. Discovery and exploration are the best I have seen in any game, even single player games.
I can understand how it would effect your enjoyment of the game. There are lots of good reasons for people to dislike DDO. There are also a lot of people who hate DDO mainly because they couldn't adapt or weren't able to understand the game and weren't willing to try. I don't think that you're in the later category.
There are always people LFG but most don't like being the leader big time. I often end up being the group leader even if I have no idea what we're doing. Someone is always willing to lead after they are in a group but I think they don't want the job of recruiting.
I really think that DDO would of been better had it been set in a more familiar setting. Grayhawk, Dragonlance, or Forgotten Realms would of made for a great gaming experience. However, they opted for the little known Eberron setting. They claimed this gave them more room for creative content, but I don't think this is the real reason.
Simply put, they didn't want to pay any royalties.
You make a game in Forgotten Realms and people would expect Drizzt, Baulder's Gate, Luskan, etc. However, the rights to those are owned by other parties who would have to be compensated. Not to mention what if R.A. Salvatore didn't like how they were portraying Drizzt? Instead of dealing with this potential problem, and to save a buck, they opted for a newer setting that had less copyrights.
To me, this is why DDO fell flat. I didn't recognize anything. Think how people would of reacted if LOTRO had no elves and wasn't set in Middle Earth. They called it "Dungeons & Dragons" yet placed the game in no dungeon or with any dragon people had heard of.
Not to bash the reviewer, but she really missed the mark in many respects.
Character customisation as the character advances is great. The addition of the enhancements have proven to be a good addition to the core 3.5 edition rules that the game [some times very loosely] follows. Anyone who has played tabletop D&D should recognise how the game works in a broad sense.
The problems with grouping may have been mainly due to the lowest levels [generally up to level 4] being so easy to solo that few characters need to group at those levels. Guilded people no doubt still do, but it isn't at all necessary. Things get much more difficult to solo past that point - especially if you are trying to solo quests at level. Of coarse things are also easier after you've done a particular dungeon a few times. Doing the level 4 quest to stop the alchemist or the level 5 end of the STK quest chain solo as a first attempt is damn close to impossible. People have soloed these, even at level, but not without prior knowledge of the quest.
The only complaint that I could see about the Early Game [or NGE as DDO calls it] is that the final quest to get off the starter island [Misery's Peak] is just too long - it could be half as long and still have the variety of enemies, the cool "watch the dragon chase the other party" part, and the run up and down the ledges to get to the rooms with the switches to open the door part. Halfway through I'm always ready for it to be over - and no chest at the end!?
As for price, I agree $15/month would be a bit steep, but perhaps they will again on the 3rd Anniversary offer the $10/month for 6 month subs. That's the time that a casual player would need to get a character high enough level to see the variety of different quests that exist.
For starters, I only run the game on a minimalist pc not designed for gaming. My specs are far below that of the reviewers and yet if I leave it at the auto detected settings I have little to no problem running the game after everything initially loads. Second, I have always enjoyed the community of DDO and never had a problem grouping for quests when i needed to. Sometimes granted I may have to wait 30 mins or so for a group to fill but almost always you can find someone. Not to mention since this was written and the game has gone f2p there has been a population explosion and now at times you have WoW like numbers in the start zones. Is this a game for people who like the grind fests of WoW or other comparable MMOs, no. This is a game for people who like in depth story and complicated dungeon quests plain and simple. I have played online games for about four years now, and I have played WoW, WAR, CoH, CoV, GW, Auto Assault, Lineage2, SWG, and the list goes on and on and this game has always in my opinion had the most in depth combat system and best social experience.
Comments
After all this hubub, I decided to resub to DDO. I haven't played in six months and all these idiots bashing my second favourite MMO of all time just made me miss it more.
Although I laughed at your description of "The guy in every party who left his mic on while he was eating and snorting like a rhinocerous..." (BTW I have had a macro to spam "Turn on push to talk idiot" since mod 1), your complaints about Zerging can apply to pretty much any game out there. It is a natural desire for most people to want to progress to the highest level possible as fast as possible in any game. However in DDO it is more obvious due to the nature of the game. Zerging low level dungeons replaces grinding mob spawns. Which is better? I guess that is up to the preferences of the individual player. I for one would rather run "Water Works" 200 times than kill 200 orcs or wolves or badgers or whatever.
As for you complaint about rogues and traps, you are obviously coming from an uninformed viewpoint. The trluth is that many mods ago the devs made it much more uninviting to simply run through traps. Hawever, even if it is still possible and widely done, the traps are still able to be neutralized for a brilliant XP bonus (depending on the quest) of up to 15%.
Also the fact that people can "Reveal what is next" is something really different from pretty much every mmo i have ever played. In most MMOs what's next is just walk around the corner and viola there are some mobs to fight. Walk into this field/cave/runnel/plateau and there are mobs there which you kill/loot/wait for respawn. DDO is different, like it or don't, play or don't, but don't complain about how different it is from the WoW standard that everyone seems to love. It never claimed to be that and it never will.
Oh and as for your statement "They tried really hard to make the game as close to the PnP game as possible, and as it turned out, alot of that stuff just didn't translate well into realtime.", barring NWN1/2 DDO is the closest thing to D&D a contemporary video game has ever come. + some monty haul issues but I believe those are inherant to any MMO.
Playing no time for games
Played UO, DDO, AoC, WoW, VG, EQ2, AO
After all this hubub, I decided to resub to DDO. I haven't played in six months and all these idiots bashing my second favourite MMO of all time just made me miss it more.
Although I laughed at your description of "The guy in every party who left his mic on while he was eating and snorting like a rhinocerous..." (BTW I have had a macro to spam "Turn on push to talk idiot" since mod 1), your complaints about Zerging can apply to pretty much any game out there. It is a natural desire for most people to want to progress to the highest level possible as fast as possible in any game. However in DDO it is more obvious due to the nature of the game. Zerging low level dungeons replaces grinding mob spawns. Which is better? I guess that is up to the preferences of the individual player. I for one would rather run "Water Works" 200 times than kill 200 orcs or wolves or badgers or whatever.
As for you complaint about rogues and traps, you are obviously coming from an uninformed viewpoint. The trluth is that many mods ago the devs made it much more uninviting to simply run through traps. Hawever, even if it is still possible and widely done, the traps are still able to be neutralized for a brilliant XP bonus (depending on the quest) of up to 15%.
Also the fact that people can "Reveal what is next" is something really different from pretty much every mmo i have ever played. In most MMOs what's next is just walk around the corner and viola there are some mobs to fight. Walk into this field/cave/runnel/plateau and there are mobs there which you kill/loot/wait for respawn. DDO is different, like it or don't, play or don't, but don't complain about how different it is from the WoW standard that everyone seems to love. It never claimed to be that and it never will.
Oh and as for your statement "They tried really hard to make the game as close to the PnP game as possible, and as it turned out, alot of that stuff just didn't translate well into realtime.", barring NWN1/2 DDO is the closest thing to D&D a contemporary video game has ever come. + some monty haul issues but I believe those are inherant to any MMO.
"As for you complaint about rogues and traps, you are obviously coming from an uninformed viewpoint."
Actually, my viewpoint, as in everything after my sentence starting with "What blew the game for me", is spot on. I iterated what made ME leave, which by default makes ME the most INFORMED person regarding that.
As for all your other points, these are things that blew what was good about the game. Who cares if somebody in City of Heroes tells you the plot of one of their cookie cutter instance missiona? But in DDO it DOES matter. Turning a switch and having the whole floor fall away is an experience that gets totally blown if somebody gives it away.
Think it doesn't? Try reading the PnP module that your DM is about to run you through. Fun, huh?
The zerging, the running through traps, all these things blew what was great about the game, which is the interaction of your party with the environment and the progression of the story. Other games just plop you down in an instance with baddies spread around, and if lucky, some triggered sounds here and there. In DDO, rooms matter.
...unless of course you've got some mouth breather telling you not to go in because it'll trigger an avalanche too early...
Its better to have a spoiled surprise when that floor falls away then to never have a floor fall away at all.
Most new MMOG's have zero interactivity beyond a MOB's aggro radius. Are you saying those games are better because there are no surprises at all, ever? Its even rare to see a MMOG with doors these days let alone locked doors and god forbid that there be a trapped door.
Also, when there is an event that does something nasty like make a floor fall away, I usually tell the new player to stand in the middle of that floor rather than spoil their surprise.
Its better to have a spoiled surprise when that floor falls away then to never have a floor fall away at all.
Most new MMOG's have zero interactivity beyond a MOB's aggro radius. Are you saying those games are better because there are no surprises at all, ever? Its even rare to see a MMOG with doors these days let alone locked doors and god forbid that there be a trapped door.
Also, when there is an event that does something nasty like make a floor fall away, I usually tell the new player to stand in the middle of that floor rather than spoil their surprise.
Nope. What I'm saying is that folks blew(for me) what was the best thing about the game and that's why I quit after 2 months. People keep replying to my post as though I'm attacking the game and I'm not. If a person neutralizes the best things about any game, people will leave that game. Or at least I will.
Matter of fact, somebody just started a new topic on their experiencing this very same thing.
Its better to have a spoiled surprise when that floor falls away then to never have a floor fall away at all.
Most new MMOG's have zero interactivity beyond a MOB's aggro radius. Are you saying those games are better because there are no surprises at all, ever? Its even rare to see a MMOG with doors these days let alone locked doors and god forbid that there be a trapped door.
Also, when there is an event that does something nasty like make a floor fall away, I usually tell the new player to stand in the middle of that floor rather than spoil their surprise.
Nope. What I'm saying is that folks blew(for me) what was the best thing about the game and that's why I quit after 2 months. People keep replying to my post as though I'm attacking the game and I'm not. If a person neutralizes the best things about any game, people will leave that game. Or at least I will.
Matter of fact, somebody just started a new topic on their experiencing this very same thing.
Ok, so whay you said is ONLY your opinion, or at least you speak for yourself - fine
. Fair enough to me. I can say I don't understand it very much, because I never had such problems with desing, but you made clear that it's only your opinion not a fact. So that's fine.
But there's no DDO which is killed, as I say for 1000th time, it's reviving now. Just come and see, maybe you'll change your mind now? Give it a try!
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DDOpl Twitter: http://twitter.com/DDOpl
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I can understand. I got lucky and started the game with my wife and two best friends. First time runs are fantastic in this game. Discovery and exploration are the best I have seen in any game, even single player games.
I can understand how it would effect your enjoyment of the game. There are lots of good reasons for people to dislike DDO. There are also a lot of people who hate DDO mainly because they couldn't adapt or weren't able to understand the game and weren't willing to try. I don't think that you're in the later category.
The review is titled an "Early Game Review", by which I presume it to be a review based on the early content, so, I'd say the reviewer made no "mistake". I don't want to have to level a toon up to a much higher level in order to start having "fun". If an MMO (or any game, really) starts out badly, that's usually it for me.
The other points you make in your post (on page 1 ) were valid and interesting. My chief concern with this MMO -- as with any MMO -- is soloability vs. grouping. I enjoy grouping with other players if there are any around, but I really hate being "stuck" and unable to move forward because of the inability to find a group. This is the bane of most MMOs, in my opinion, and it sounds (in DDO) as though it is a particularly vexing problem.
DDO is a very group focused game, which means most people are looking for groups which eases the finding a group problem. There are also some explorer areas which are more akin to standard MMO zones with grinding, rares and explorer bits.
The only major hiccup is a lot of people don't want to be the group leader, so people will wait for the quest they want rather than creating a group to do it. Actually a secondary hiccup is the LFG flag isn't used by people often, so new people pop it on and it gets ignored, which does need something doing about it.
The review is titled an "Early Game Review", by which I presume it to be a review based on the early content, so, I'd say the reviewer made no "mistake". I don't want to have to level a toon up to a much higher level in order to start having "fun". If an MMO (or any game, really) starts out badly, that's usually it for me.
The other points you make in your post (on page 1 ) were valid and interesting. My chief concern with this MMO -- as with any MMO -- is soloability vs. grouping. I enjoy grouping with other players if there are any around, but I really hate being "stuck" and unable to move forward because of the inability to find a group. This is the bane of most MMOs, in my opinion, and it sounds (in DDO) as though it is a particularly vexing problem.
Hi! It was a mistake until Stradden, MMORPGs managing editior came here, and on 5th page made this comment:
Originally posted by Stradden:
*enters thread with head bowed low*
Hey guys,
I'm jumping in here to face the music and let everyone know that I screwed up. This article was submitted to me should have been labelled as an early game review and not with the weight of a re-review. I've corrected the mistake, and a full review, taking more elements of the game into account, will be forthcoming.
So, if you're all going to be mad at someone. That should probably be me and not the writer who was just completing the assignment I gave her.
So, as Optimus Prime would say in a moment that negated my childhood love of his cartoon... my bad.
The link to this post: www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2654754#2654754
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Thanks for pointing that out Sarr.
I also didn't mean that the reviewer needs to experience end game content or even mid game content. All she needed to do was to figure out what makes the game compelling for the subscribers. I figure that every game has some aspect of it that sets it apart from the other games on the market. The author commented twice that there was nothing that sets DDO apart from other MMOG's. That is simply not true and it doesn't take more than a few hours of playing to figure that out.
Had she acknowledged DDO's strengths then went on the criticize DDO's weaknesses I wouldn't even have commented in the first place.
I can understand. I got lucky and started the game with my wife and two best friends. First time runs are fantastic in this game. Discovery and exploration are the best I have seen in any game, even single player games.
I can understand how it would effect your enjoyment of the game. There are lots of good reasons for people to dislike DDO. There are also a lot of people who hate DDO mainly because they couldn't adapt or weren't able to understand the game and weren't willing to try. I don't think that you're in the later category.
There are always people LFG but most don't like being the leader big time. I often end up being the group leader even if I have no idea what we're doing. Someone is always willing to lead after they are in a group but I think they don't want the job of recruiting.
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
I really think that DDO would of been better had it been set in a more familiar setting. Grayhawk, Dragonlance, or Forgotten Realms would of made for a great gaming experience. However, they opted for the little known Eberron setting. They claimed this gave them more room for creative content, but I don't think this is the real reason.
Simply put, they didn't want to pay any royalties.
You make a game in Forgotten Realms and people would expect Drizzt, Baulder's Gate, Luskan, etc. However, the rights to those are owned by other parties who would have to be compensated. Not to mention what if R.A. Salvatore didn't like how they were portraying Drizzt? Instead of dealing with this potential problem, and to save a buck, they opted for a newer setting that had less copyrights.
To me, this is why DDO fell flat. I didn't recognize anything. Think how people would of reacted if LOTRO had no elves and wasn't set in Middle Earth. They called it "Dungeons & Dragons" yet placed the game in no dungeon or with any dragon people had heard of.
(edited for typos)
Not to bash the reviewer, but she really missed the mark in many respects.
Character customisation as the character advances is great. The addition of the enhancements have proven to be a good addition to the core 3.5 edition rules that the game [some times very loosely] follows. Anyone who has played tabletop D&D should recognise how the game works in a broad sense.
The problems with grouping may have been mainly due to the lowest levels [generally up to level 4] being so easy to solo that few characters need to group at those levels. Guilded people no doubt still do, but it isn't at all necessary. Things get much more difficult to solo past that point - especially if you are trying to solo quests at level. Of coarse things are also easier after you've done a particular dungeon a few times. Doing the level 4 quest to stop the alchemist or the level 5 end of the STK quest chain solo as a first attempt is damn close to impossible. People have soloed these, even at level, but not without prior knowledge of the quest.
The only complaint that I could see about the Early Game [or NGE as DDO calls it] is that the final quest to get off the starter island [Misery's Peak] is just too long - it could be half as long and still have the variety of enemies, the cool "watch the dragon chase the other party" part, and the run up and down the ledges to get to the rooms with the switches to open the door part. Halfway through I'm always ready for it to be over - and no chest at the end!?
As for price, I agree $15/month would be a bit steep, but perhaps they will again on the 3rd Anniversary offer the $10/month for 6 month subs. That's the time that a casual player would need to get a character high enough level to see the variety of different quests that exist.
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If i were to mess up like that on my job, people would die...
For starters, I only run the game on a minimalist pc not designed for gaming. My specs are far below that of the reviewers and yet if I leave it at the auto detected settings I have little to no problem running the game after everything initially loads. Second, I have always enjoyed the community of DDO and never had a problem grouping for quests when i needed to. Sometimes granted I may have to wait 30 mins or so for a group to fill but almost always you can find someone. Not to mention since this was written and the game has gone f2p there has been a population explosion and now at times you have WoW like numbers in the start zones. Is this a game for people who like the grind fests of WoW or other comparable MMOs, no. This is a game for people who like in depth story and complicated dungeon quests plain and simple. I have played online games for about four years now, and I have played WoW, WAR, CoH, CoV, GW, Auto Assault, Lineage2, SWG, and the list goes on and on and this game has always in my opinion had the most in depth combat system and best social experience.