Disaster?

renojustin

It's the day before the supposed launch. Here are at least 10 major issues with the game.

1. There is not even an announcement of the launch on the game site. In fact the website has not been significantly modified in the last few years. Aventurine recieves an F-- for communication skills. So much for marketing, public relations, and advertising.

2. Their European distributor is gone, and they never had an American one.

3. Limited distribution at release even though Tasos said that would be giving people an unfair advantage and they wouldn't do it. So much for Tasos's credibility.

4. Release without being able to try the game as Tasos has said many times would be the case. So much for the game's credibility.

5. No trading game mechanic beyond individual trades. No way to advertise except through chats. So much for an economy.

6. Banks are all universal. Half or more of the people you meet in the wilderness will be naked. So much for full loot.

7. No skill differentiation between weapon skills. No offshooting skillsets, no evolving skills. Little differentiation in weapons. No tactical decisions in combat. Melee is a clickfest. So much for skill based.

8. Monsters are static spawns. They do not form communities, they do not increase in power, they do not migrate. So much for advanced AI.

9. Many missing or 'delayed' features, if not most. Weather is out, player housing is out, mahirim running on all 4s is out. Items missing descriptions. So much for more than half the things the developers have promised us over the years.

10. Boring and grindy tradeskill and crafting systems. You can tweak the balance, with parts needed and such, but you cannot tweak fun factor. So much for the carebears that would have made the game a success.

Strike 10, you're out.

Nadia

Originally posted by renojustin

3. Limited distribution at release even though Tasos said that would be giving people an unfair advantage and they wouldn't do it. So much for Tasos's credibility.

it was stated in January they would do a scaling release if the demand was too high

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

 

you WANT to play on servers at over capacity ?

 

GoodBadUgly

I am a Darkfall fan, beta tested, preordered and am excited about getting started again after they wipe beta.

I have to agree with alot of your points.   I also have seen and experienced enough of what is there to really like the game and its enviroment.   Enough, that I am paying to play the game.

One thing I do disagree with is the game needing carebears.   If it tried to clone all the other standard MMORPGs it would attract the carebears more but it wouldn't be Darkfall either.  

I was against player housing and Mahirim 4 legged running and am very glad those didn't make it into the game.

My largest concern for this game is the lack of common sense shown by the developers on a whole range of topics.

Unknown

All those issues are fairly minor.

I like your definiton of mainy...being 3, all of which are simply  fluff features which can be added in at a later date.

What you trolls seem to forget is that an mmo is a constantly evolving product, if you look at the patch notes you can clearly see the amount of effort they are putting into the game.

renojustin

Don't get me wrong. I had very high expectations for Darkfall because of what the developers were saying... who didn't? Now I simply don't have ANY expectations for it being a good game.

I would have bought it and played it from the start IF I was able to play a beta and IF there wasn't a limited and seemingly completely fucked-up distribution.

I will still watch it to see what happens and I am still excited to get my hands on it and play. I am, however, very realistic and wary about what happens to games like this that do not initially deliver on their game model.

It's hard to feel sorry for Aventurine, and we might not even have to. But whatever happens, I feel sorry for the genuine fans of this game and especially those who stuck around for a long period of time helping to try to make it better. Because no matter what happens at this point, it doesn't look like Darkfall will be as financially successful as it could have been, which I couldn't care less about except that it also means that Darkfall will never be fully developed into the concept that it could have been.

egg20001uk

Originally posted by xTwiSteDx


All those issues are fairly minor.
I like your definiton of mainy...being 3, all of which are simply  fluff features which can be added in at a later date.
What you trolls seem to forget is that an mmo is a constantly evolving product, if you look at the patch notes you can clearly see the amount of effort they are putting into the game.

 

So he makes some valid points about Darkfall and you label him a troll?.

Grow up

Turnell

Shrug, after all that people may have a lot of fun.

Kaynos1972

I for once never believe this game will launch in the first place, always tought it was vaporware, now this game is supposed to launch tomorrow.   I dont think anyone can seriously take adventurine seriously with what they gave us (lack of) so far.  

This game is the next Dark and Light or Vanguard.

As usual this site (fanboys) over hype this game just like they did with the 2 above games i mentioned.

Roin

Originally posted by GoodBadUgly



I was against player housing and Mahirim 4 legged running and am very glad those didn't make it into the game.
 

 

Sorry to derail the topic a bit, but I'm curious, GoodBadUgly. Why were you against those things?  The housing I can probably guess why, as could any old UO player.  The 4 legged running thing though, on other hand.

huxflux2004

That was the first launch that is smaller in numbers than the beta. Way to go AV. I still think that they are buying time. Delaying the actual launch, without saying so. Instead "they have reached their capacity". Which is suspiciously small!

renojustin

Originally posted by GoodBadUgly


I am a Darkfall fan, beta tested, preordered and am excited about getting started again after they wipe beta.
I have to agree with alot of your points.   I also have seen and experienced enough of what is there to really like the game and its enviroment.   Enough, that I am paying to play the game.
One thing I do disagree with is the game needing carebears.   If it tried to clone all the other standard MMORPGs it would attract the carebears more but it wouldn't be Darkfall either.  
I was against player housing and Mahirim 4 legged running and am very glad those didn't make it into the game.
My largest concern for this game is the lack of common sense shown by the developers on a whole range of topics.

 

I agree with you on several things. 

Carebears, however, are not an optional thing to have or to not have in a game.  The reason that UO failed was because they split servers into pvp and non-pvp.  Thus, all those potential targets were denied to the pvpers.  And all that excitement of an open world and pvp was denited to the carebears. 

The ingame economy is a very important tool to maintain the fun level in a game.  If it doesn't do its job, it can create frustration and recession.  A healthy, vibrant economy with plenty of money sinks is one of the keys to a happy population.  This won't happen without crafting being a viable playstyle.  That won't happen unless it's at least moderately fun.

Player housing I agree I could also live without, even having played pre-shit SWG and enjoying that aspect of the game.  But what could you possibly have against mahirim running?  Did a doggie hump your leg when you were too little to run away or something?  Seriously, that's bizarre. 

Darkstar111

Originally posted by renojustin


It's the day before the supposed launch. Here are at least 10 major issues with the game.
1. There is not even an announcement of the launch on the game site. In fact the website has not been significantly modified in the last few years. Aventurine recieves an F-- for communication skills. So much for marketing, public relations, and advertising.
And yet they sold out the preorders, guess announcing it on the website would have been overkill.
 
2. Their European distributor is gone, and they never had an American one.
They will sell over the net, no distributor to tell them what to do like Funcom had to deal with.
This point is a good thing.
 
3. Limited distribution at release even though Tasos said that would be giving people an unfair advantage and they wouldn't do it. So much for Tasos's credibility.
The people who does not get in at launch, will be offered another new server.
So there is no unfair advantage.
 
4. Release without being able to try the game as Tasos has said many times would be the case. So much for the game's credibility.
It didn't happen, his exact words last interview was release in time for people to be able to make up their minds about the game. Which he meant from the NDA being lifted, no MMO has ever been able to offer everyone a spot in Beta, even open Betas have limits.
 
5. No trading game mechanic beyond individual trades. No way to advertise except through chats. So much for an economy.
This is actually an interesting way to create a better economy. I dont beleive in AHs myself, a UO
 style NPC vendor placed in guild towns would have been interesting, but at the end of the day its gonna be the same thing, player to player. Most likely guilds will appoint some trade officers that will sell the guild members items through the guild bank to people coming by the guild town.

 
6. Banks are all universal. Half or more of the people you meet in the wilderness will be naked. So much for full loot.
Im sorry if u thought this game would allow u to loot shiny epics, but that notion is stupid.
Full loot means that most loot is not worth much, thats how it has to be, and I dont think anyone really thought otherwise. Also universal banking is a neccesity, because the alternative simply doesnt work. 
 
7. No skill differentiation between weapon skills. No offshooting skillsets, no evolving skills. Little differentiation in weapons. No tactical decisions in combat. Melee is a clickfest. So much for skill based.
Click-fest as in u click buttons? yes u have to click buttons in this game... just like every other.
 
8. Monsters are static spawns. They do not form communities, they do not increase in power, they do not migrate. So much for advanced AI.
Right... as if u, or anyone, would EVER  care about monster migration if Aventurine hadn't announced in in their feature section.
9. Many missing or 'delayed' features, if not most. Weather is out, player housing is out, mahirim running on all 4s is out. Items missing descriptions. So much for more than half the things the developers have promised us over the years.
Player housing is in, inside guild towns, and its getting improved after launch. And wheather? who cares. Most features.. that just laughable, 90 % is in.
 
10. Boring and grindy tradeskill and crafting systems. You can tweak the balance, with parts needed and such, but you cannot tweak fun factor. So much for the carebears that would have made the game a success.
At release u will have to search for rare gathering locations around the map. That means u can be attacked while carrying expensive materials, theres ur fun factor.
 
 
Strike 10, you're out.
Look again sir.

 

 

-Darkstar

 

 

 

GoodBadUgly

The reason I don't like the 4 legged running ability is because I think it would way too overpowered and to the point that over half the population would roll Mahirim.

One thing we saw in beta was that getting horses and holding them isn't the easiest thing in the world.   To have 4 legged running would almost be akin to having a soulbound mount or at least soulbound mountspeed mode of travel.

You can steal, loot or kill a mount plus you have to grind to obtain one.   These things are out the window for Mahirims who can travel mount speed on all 4 legs.   That's why I don't want it in the game.

The housing, I think its carebear for one and I can't see how they could implement them without making them mini safe zones.  

renojustin

Originally posted by Darkstar111

Originally posted by renojustin


It's the day before the supposed launch. Here are at least 10 major issues with the game.
1. There is not even an announcement of the launch on the game site. In fact the website has not been significantly modified in the last few years. Aventurine recieves an F-- for communication skills. So much for marketing, public relations, and advertising.
And yet they sold out the preorders, guess announcing it on the website would have been overkill.
How hard is it to take money that people are throwing at you?  How hard is it to act like a semiprofessional group of software developers with a product to promote and sell in a sane fashion?  How hard is it to treat the customer with respect?
 
2. Their European distributor is gone, and they never had an American one.
They will sell over the net, no distributor to tell them what to do like Funcom had to deal with.
This point is a good thing.
No, not having a distributor is an incredibly BAD thing.  As evidenced by their horrendous ongoing release that is happning RIGHT NOW.  Oh wait, it's over.  A couple of thousand people got in?  Who knows.
 
3. Limited distribution at release even though Tasos said that would be giving people an unfair advantage and they wouldn't do it. So much for Tasos's credibility.
The people who does not get in at launch, will be offered another new server.
So there is no unfair advantage.
There is one server at release.  When do you think there will be another one if the game fails, because of shoddy marketing and incomprehensible release?  Not ever.
 
4. Release without being able to try the game as Tasos has said many times would be the case. So much for the game's credibility.
It didn't happen, his exact words last interview was release in time for people to be able to make up their minds about the game. Which he meant from the NDA being lifted, no MMO has ever been able to offer everyone a spot in Beta, even open Betas have limits.
 Those were his words in the latest interview.  However, if you'd been following the forums for more than a few months, you'd know that this was a repeated and sacred promise on their part.  It just really shows their disrespect for their own customer and non-confidence in their product.
5. No trading game mechanic beyond individual trades. No way to advertise except through chats. So much for an economy.
This is actually an interesting way to create a better economy. I dont beleive in AHs myself, a UO
 style NPC vendor placed in guild towns would have been interesting, but at the end of the day its gonna be the same thing, player to player. Most likely guilds will appoint some trade officers that will sell the guild members items through the guild bank to people coming by the guild town.

That would be a laughable assertion, if it wasn't so sad.  Are you really, truly serious here?
6. Banks are all universal. Half or more of the people you meet in the wilderness will be naked. So much for full loot.
Im sorry if u thought this game would allow u to loot shiny epics, but that notion is stupid.
Full loot means that most loot is not worth much, thats how it has to be, and I dont think anyone really thought otherwise. Also universal banking is a neccesity, because the alternative simply doesnt work. 
Excuse me sir, but I never said anything about epic carebear fantasy loot.  I said half the people will be naked.  You can loot what from them exactly?  Nothing, correct.  Because everyone can bank their valuables anywhere they go and then pick them up at their destination, there will never be a need to risk them while travelling.  All that lost opportunity for excitement and pvp supported by a game mechanic.  Gone.
7. No skill differentiation between weapon skills. No offshooting skillsets, no evolving skills. Little differentiation in weapons. No tactical decisions in combat. Melee is a clickfest. So much for skill based.
Click-fest as in u click buttons? yes u have to click buttons in this game... just like every other.
All videos have shown that you basically stand there and click your weapon as fast as you can.  You cannot dodge a monster's weapon.  Blocking is illogical.  What part of that combat model sounds enticing to you?  It might as wellbe auto-attack.
8. Monsters are static spawns. They do not form communities, they do not increase in power, they do not migrate. So much for advanced AI.
Right... as if u, or anyone, would EVER  care about monster migration if Aventurine hadn't announced in in their feature section.
I cared a lot about the intelligent AI.  Advanced AI is one of the hugest things in a game for me, even multiplayer.  Maybe especially multiplayer after fighting many, many, many human opponents throughout the years in many, many games.  So yes.  I fucking care about the AI.
9. Many missing or 'delayed' features, if not most. Weather is out, player housing is out, mahirim running on all 4s is out. Items missing descriptions. So much for more than half the things the developers have promised us over the years.
Player housing is in, inside guild towns, and its getting improved after launch. And wheather? who cares. Most features.. that just laughable, 90 % is in.
Player housing is NOT in.  Weather is integral to a game's IT factor: immersion.  These are just two small examples of all the features they have cut over the years, let alone in the last months before release.  And yet sadly it is only one symptom of the sick whole that is Darkfall currently.
 
10. Boring and grindy tradeskill and crafting systems. You can tweak the balance, with parts needed and such, but you cannot tweak fun factor. So much for the carebears that would have made the game a success.
At release u will have to search for rare gathering locations around the map. That means u can be attacked while carrying expensive materials, theres ur fun factor.
Your solution to solving the entire horrible, boring mechanic behind gathering and crafting is to put rare materials farther away?  You should email them this immediately as I don't think they've thought of it.
 Strike 10, you're out.
Look again sir.
My eyes are open.  And I have perfect vision.

 

 

-Darkstar

-Justin

 

 

 

renojustin

Originally posted by GoodBadUgly


The reason I don't like the 4 legged running ability is because I think it would way too overpowered and to the point that over half the population would roll Mahirim.
One thing we saw in beta was that getting horses and holding them isn't the easiest thing in the world.   To have 4 legged running would almost be akin to having a soulbound mount or at least soulbound mountspeed mode of travel.
You can steal, loot or kill a mount plus you have to grind to obtain one.   These things are out the window for Mahirims who can travel mount speed on all 4 legs.   That's why I don't want it in the game.
The housing, I think its carebear for one and I can't see how they could implement them without making them mini safe zones.  

 

I have heard your words and I now agree with you, despite having been intending to play Mahirim for quite some time now.  Of course, they could simply balance it to have a maulus or other disadvantage as when compared with mounts... such as the fact that you cannot use weapons when in 4-legged mode and people mounted on mounts can use one-handed weapons and the mount's own special attacks.

So obviously it's a concern but maybe it will play out all right with all the other disadvantages a mahirim has... like their great size.

mlambert890

People are too quick to label everything and then, once labeled, base judgments on those labels.

 

All of these games go the same way.  Irrational hype taken to a fever pitch by various groups of jaded and embittered disenfranchised gamers who "hate" one aspect or another of "all those other crap MMOs"

 

Once these games limp towards release the trend reverses and you have hyperbolic criticism and hatred of the game and the devs "failure to deliver" battled by a few stalwart fanboys who can never say die.

 

Does NO ONE tire of this idiot treadmill?

 

I saw on the thread things being said along the lines "well this is "carebear" or "thats carebear""  That, to me, is the most ridiculous line of reasoning possible.  Something like player housing can't be in because "its carebear"?  There are a huge number of ways something like player housing could be incorporated into a pure PvP environment and bring a TON to the game, but the problem is so many folks are narrow minded and laser focused on what they think is absolute truth.  In trying to please ALL of these myopic folks (who are always in conflict with each other) devs set themselves up for complete failure.  Maybe "pure hardcore PVPers" need to play one of the EXISTING PVP games.  Or maybe play Quake.  Or maybe face that they are a real minority because of the WAY they choose to narrowly define PVP with absolute rigidity.  Personally, I am still waiting to see an MMO implement PVP in a way that isnt a bolt on and yet isnt also a "Fantasy Quake" or a sandbox for virtual sociopaths to get their rocks off.  I wish more dev teams would IGNORE "the community" and go out on a limb and try something that ON THE SURFACE might not really seem like it would appeal to anyone.  Most people are hypocrites in that they convince themselves there is NO WAY they will like something and then end up trying it and actually liking it.  Its human nature.  But most dev teams wouldnt know because they are trying to react to the tiny group of folks who are the "untapped market" who hate WoW.  Unfortunately its an unpleasable market.

 

Darkfall will almost certainly be just another nearly anonymous MMO entering into a REALLY crowded field to compete for the few folks who are never happy with anything.  Without any kind of license, it doesnt even have the potential to pull in NEW MMO gamers the way LoTR, WAR or even AoC or DDO could and to some extent did.

If DF doesnt become the next Vanguard, Horizons, and on and on, that will be the real surprise. 

jimmyman99

Originally posted by xTwiSteDx

Originally posted by renojustin


Don't get me wrong. I had very high expectations for Darkfall because of what the developers were saying... who didn't? Now I simply don't have ANY expectations for it being a good game.
I would have bought it and played it from the start IF I was able to play a beta and IF there wasn't a limited and seemingly completely fucked-up distribution.
I will still watch it to see what happens and I am still excited to get my hands on it and play. I am, however, very realistic and wary about what happens to games like this that do not initially deliver on their game model.
It's hard to feel sorry for Aventurine, and we might not even have to. But whatever happens, I feel sorry for the genuine fans of this game and especially those who stuck around for a long period of time helping to try to make it better. Because no matter what happens at this point, it doesn't look like Darkfall will be as financially successful as it could have been, which I couldn't care less about except that it also means that Darkfall will never be fully developed into the concept that it could have been.

 

So we come to the root of the problem, you didn't get your pre-order so now you are bitching.

You make the wrong conclusion. I think what he meant is that because he didn't get to try the game, he is not gonna trust a corporate entity (especially the one with lame rep). Sometimes, if the company has a good rep you can trust it enough and buy their product without second thought. but sometimes you can't. I wouldn't buy anything EA or SONY makes for example before actually trying it.

For example, I would buy the next Europa Universalis 3 title from Paradox Interactive because they have done an excellent job so far, and I trust them not to screw up. But Aventurine? Not a chance. On that note I agree with renojustin - try before buying anything made by Aventurine.

 

SpyridonZ

Originally posted by renojustin


It's the day before the supposed launch. Here are at least 10 major issues with the game.
1. There is not even an announcement of the launch on the game site. In fact the website has not been significantly modified in the last few years. Aventurine recieves an F-- for communication skills. So much for marketing, public relations, and advertising.
2. Their European distributor is gone, and they never had an American one.
3. Limited distribution at release even though Tasos said that would be giving people an unfair advantage and they wouldn't do it. So much for Tasos's credibility.
4. Release without being able to try the game as Tasos has said many times would be the case. So much for the game's credibility.
5. No trading game mechanic beyond individual trades. No way to advertise except through chats. So much for an economy.
6. Banks are all universal. Half or more of the people you meet in the wilderness will be naked. So much for full loot.
7. No skill differentiation between weapon skills. No offshooting skillsets, no evolving skills. Little differentiation in weapons. No tactical decisions in combat. Melee is a clickfest. So much for skill based.
8. Monsters are static spawns. They do not form communities, they do not increase in power, they do not migrate. So much for advanced AI.
9. Many missing or 'delayed' features, if not most. Weather is out, player housing is out, mahirim running on all 4s is out. Items missing descriptions. So much for more than half the things the developers have promised us over the years.
10. Boring and grindy tradeskill and crafting systems. You can tweak the balance, with parts needed and such, but you cannot tweak fun factor. So much for the carebears that would have made the game a success.
Strike 10, you're out.

 

"3. Limited distribution at release even though Tasos said that would be giving people an unfair advantage and they wouldn't do it. So much for Tasos's credibility."

 

If your just realizing now that Tasos does not have any credibility, you are about 5 years behind

 

renojustin

"3. Limited distribution at release even though Tasos said that would be giving people an unfair advantage and they wouldn't do it. So much for Tasos's credibility."
 
If your just realizing now that Tasos does not have any credibility, you are about 5 years behind
 

 

Hey, I was a late bloomer.  I only have been following the game for about a year now.

Borkotron

Failed thread is fail

xbellx777

Originally posted by Borkotron


Failed thread is fail

 

failed troll is fail (not u bork the op). everyone should just wait for awhile, watch how launch goes, and then judge it from there on.

Spaceweed10

The fallout that this game will create will be of biblical proportions.

I have pre-ordered a monstrous amount of popcorn

Borkotron

This is why we need another world war and a draft. Too many of you waste endless amounts of time hating on video games and need to do something constructive with your lives like placing yourselves in front of a bullet.

Either play Darkfall or don't play it. Either way, nobody cares. Either you like a game or you don't. As a gamer, you should be spending time playing and supporting the games you enjoy. This is insanity focusing so much hate and anger towards a game you don't like nor want to play.

How spoiled are you in your RLs? Mommie must have called you "her prince" one too many times because some of you act like every game produced must be made exactly to your specifications otherwise you'll just endlessly bitch about it. And I mean endlessly because that's what all spoiled kids do when they don't get their way.

 

DarkPony

People getting twitchy over a release which isn't an AAA game text book example. So what?

It is an indy company who created their own game from scratch and are doing the same thing with the release. Since they lost their publisher and have to do that themselves as well, they are taking a careful, one step at a time approach. That is NOT a disaster. Even if they failed bad in webdesign, communication and planning. Darkfall is bound to develop into a mature mmorpg, just like AV is growing into a mature game developer (...eventually :P)

And an mmorpg not being complete or perfect at launch is something we don't have to expect from those AAA developers either, as we all know. What I've read so far is that DF's client is damn stable and very much optimized for massive pvp, there are quite some AAA games out there who screwed that up big time, for one.

We can demand, complain, worry as much as we want but that won't change anything. If you want to be sure about any mmorpg buying decision you have to wait the proverbial 2 months after release when all ups and downs and a developers commitment to improving the game are clear.

There is a dutch saying which goes: "Je moet roeien met de riemen die je hebt." "You have to row with the oars at your disposal". Obviously AV's oars are pretty small and hand made and there are some nails sticking out here and there but they will get that boat to shore eventually. At least there is no sign the boat is sinking yet.

xaldraxius

---

Originally posted by Borkotron
This is why we need another world war and a draft. Too many of you waste endless amounts of time hating on video games and need to do something constructive with your lives like placing yourselves in front of a bullet.
Either play Darkfall or don't play it. Either way, nobody cares. Either you like a game or you don't. As a gamer, you should be spending time playing and supporting the games you enjoy. This is insanity focusing so much hate and anger towards a game you don't like nor want to play.
How spoiled are you in your RLs? Mommie must have called you "her prince" one too many times because some of you act like every game produced must be made exactly to your specifications otherwise you'll just endlessly bitch about it. And I mean endlessly because that's what all spoiled kids do when they don't get their way.
 

---

OMG! The irony of this entire post made my day!

"Mommie(sic) must have called you "her prince" one too many times..."

Classic.

AzalinRex

Originally posted by Borkotron


This is why we need another world war and a draft. Too many of you waste endless amounts of time hating on video games and need to do something constructive with your lives like placing yourselves in front of a bullet.
Either play Darkfall or don't play it. Either way, nobody cares. Either you like a game or you don't. As a gamer, you should be spending time playing and supporting the games you enjoy. This is insanity focusing so much hate and anger towards a game you don't like nor want to play.
How spoiled are you in your RLs? Mommie must have called you "her prince" one too many times because some of you act like every game produced must be made exactly to your specifications otherwise you'll just endlessly bitch about it. And I mean endlessly because that's what all spoiled kids do when they don't get their way.
 

 

I hope you are ready to join him on the front line. Or maybe you gonna run away in fear, what is most likely from folks like you.

Defending a video game is the same "waste of time" as bashing it.