Originally posted by jimhus Originally posted by Xira Jews are clearly not a race, most definitely not in a genetic sense. While they are a social segment that can evaluated separately - WWII was hardly the selection-of-the-smartest process you try and imply. The smartest were often targeted more frequently for extermination. You might argue only the cleverest managed to escape - but it would not only be a difficult proof... you'd then have to relate this back to IQ test scores. Rubbish. The IQ differences you cite, and don't back up, are far more likely to be based on skewing from the tests
Getting back on track here Djin, how would it be more realistic to have one race be better at harvesting than say another? All that you have said so far is becuase it's that way in other games. If you want to talk about realism it would be more correct to say that a race that lives in the Jungle harvest better in the jungle. Which is the case. Each race is able to use the materials from thier home ecosystem better than the other races.
________________________________________________________________ The only game I have really enjoyed is Earth and Beyond. A tale in the Desert was a close second (lack of players caused me to quit). Tried Rubies of Evertide, Linage, Dark age of Camelot, and Anarchy Online. Liked none of them.
While I'll concede that a large percentage (around 90%) of this disease is due to a genetic defect found in those of eastern european jewish origin - it is not limited to only this population or subgroup.
Do not argue with me about genetics:P
Throughout history whenever different groups have come into contact, they have interbred. With a mixing of genetic materials - all of humankind must be looked at as a single species.
ALL human beings are members of one species, Homo sapiens, differentiating species into biologically defined "races" has proven meaningless and unscientific as a way of explaining variation (whether in intelligence or other traits). The concept of biological race is simply an analogy of subgroups of a SINGLE species.
***FYI - I despise concepts of racial ranking...end of discussion Xira
Games...on the other hand can have as many races as they like. They are creations of imagination designed to entertain - and fortunately their differences dont lead to a racial dissection..
its not racism, even defining people into sub-groups is correct.
It is why asian people are a bit smaller than normal, its cause generally as they seperated from africa 90,000 years ago their group changed from the african group, through mutation and evolution. Although the changes are only slight i.e slightly smaller etc it is still a group wide analogy.
White people however split from the african group 50,000 years ago so maybe this explains why we arent as short averagely as asian people, and why black people are taller on average.
Its how Human race has evolved over 90,000 years. and for a good amount of time Asian people were seperated from african people for a very long time, this is why we have variations because we have been seperated in our history. However now that with long distance travel possible we are re-coming back to one race and it will be difficult to divide us into sub-groups as you say we interbred and therefore we are just one human race now or soon.
Its not being racist, it is just statistics and if we had a look statistically 600 or so years ago you could group evolutionary traits to certain regions... i.e no blue eye/blon hair in africa/asia mainly around scandinavia.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
what I disagreed with in my post was Xira stating that people can be clumped in genetically defined classes based on a few genetic characteristics and then ultimately claim which 'race' is least intelligent, most intelligent, strongest, weakest, etc. based only on a particular researchers criteria.
Defining people and ranking and judging based on these criteria does lend to racist ideals- if people are considered inferior or superior depending on what ' race' they fall into.
I do agree that due to environmental variables, cultural differences, isolation, breeding, etc, you can get a sub-group of people that may have very similar abilities and traits - but they are not a new race -- they are still part of the 'human race'.
If say we as human beings were seperated for long periods of times such as the galapagos(sp?) islands humans would split into different races. These genetic differences are the start of the evolutionary paths of different races.
For example neandertals are human but not classes as homosapien i.e a different race because they were seperated from their homosapien cousins for so long they changed significantly enough to be classified differently. Only through seperation over long periods of times do new races appear.
We dont have that at the moment and i bet in 500 years we wont even see the differences we see between the races at the moment as all the races inbred etc... blue eyes and blond hair being recessive will eventually be bred out, so we will become dark hair, brown eyed etc.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
Ok, so you are pigeon-holing intelligence by IQ scores? Do you know how IQ tests are made? PSYCHOLOGISTS make them; people that haven't taken first order logic (or anything above calculus for that matter) are trying to assess a person's intelligence.
Although if intelligence were based on IQ scores I would have nothing to complain about , I don't find it fair to the population of individuals that are only gifted in certain areas: I knew different people that were mathematical geniuses, but could not pull off a 160 in IQ tests because of the verbal assessment (which happened to be weighted quite heavily).
It's very ironic how a lot of geneticists make macro-hypotheses about things that are so immensely complex (like intelligence, or behavior), because of their need to biject a person to their genepool (or so it seems?).
The problem with IQ tests is that they do not cover the vast range of cognitive abilities: Recognizing and creating bijections (a combinatorically gifted friend I have), logically deducing statements from others at a fast rate, creating functions or sets of assumptions that fit models (Cantor, Bernstein, Goedel, Einstein) , and countably many more.
I have seen African-Americans (or blacks as you call them) that were mathematically gifted (although statistics would make all of them OUTLIERS), inane Asians, Whites that were more stupid than any black I had ever seen, and Jews(the racial interpretation, don't expect me to remember any terminology heh) that were equally stupid.
So the ancient Egyptians that had practically created geometry and implemented it so brilliantly must have been stupid because they were black?
Stupid and smart are injections of a boolean value into something that is possibly infinite.
Why do you insist on propagating this sort of idiocy? Are you one of the Boys From Brazil?
"Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land. Nothing is sacred." MP
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
No, it's not a quote. Smart and stupid are two values {0,{0}} or {0,1} (just any tuple of two elements).
An injection is a mapping of one entire set (so all of the elements of some set X) into another(some set Y).
Ex. mapping of integers to reals f(x) = y (where x = y) X = Z (set of integers), Y = R (set of reals).
Obviously, not all values of the set of reals are "touched" by this function Ex. (there is no f(x) such that f(x) = 1.1 or any other decimal value), so that injective functions don't necessarily need to hit ALL of the set Y that is being mapped to, but need to use up all of X.
"Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land. Nothing is sacred." MP
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Comments
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/chaplain/jewishfaq.htm#religion
Racial Biology of the jews(Halfway down)
http://www.faem.com/weber/jewbio.htm
Genetic Diseases of Eastern European Jews
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f02/web1/lfriedman.html
Tay-Sachs disease. That's the one.
Genetic testing of human ethnic populations to detrmine decent. (From my school, not by me)
http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=jbms&id=231&previous=L3B1YmxpY2F0aW9ucy9kbmEucGhw
In conclusion I was wrong to use just the word "jew". I should have said "Ashkenazi Jews".
Addendum: Corraly evidence that Ashkenazi Jews have the highest verbal IQ scores in the world as well as a short definition. http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Ashkenazi_Jew
Jewish subsect best at Chess in russia by large margin: http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/ashkenaz.htm
Do not argue with me about genetics:P
Getting back on track here Djin, how would it be more realistic to have one race be better at harvesting than say another? All that you have said so far is becuase it's that way in other games. If you want to talk about realism it would be more correct to say that a race that lives in the Jungle harvest better in the jungle. Which is the case. Each race is able to use the materials from thier home ecosystem better than the other races.
________________________________________________________________
The only game I have really enjoyed is Earth and Beyond. A tale in the Desert was a close second (lack of players caused me to quit). Tried Rubies of Evertide, Linage, Dark age of Camelot, and Anarchy Online. Liked none of them.
Throughout history whenever different groups have come into contact, they have interbred. With a mixing of genetic materials - all of humankind must be looked at as a single species.
ALL human beings are members of one species, Homo sapiens, differentiating species into biologically defined "races" has proven meaningless and unscientific as a way of explaining variation (whether in intelligence or other traits). The concept of biological race is simply an analogy of subgroups of a SINGLE species.
***FYI - I despise concepts of racial ranking...end of discussion Xira
Games...on the other hand can have as many races as they like. They are creations of imagination designed to entertain - and fortunately their differences dont lead to a racial dissection..
its not racism, even defining people into sub-groups is correct.
It is why asian people are a bit smaller than normal, its cause generally as they seperated from africa 90,000 years ago their group changed from the african group, through mutation and evolution. Although the changes are only slight i.e slightly smaller etc it is still a group wide analogy.
White people however split from the african group 50,000 years ago so maybe this explains why we arent as short averagely as asian people, and why black people are taller on average.
Its how Human race has evolved over 90,000 years. and for a good amount of time Asian people were seperated from african people for a very long time, this is why we have variations because we have been seperated in our history. However now that with long distance travel possible we are re-coming back to one race and it will be difficult to divide us into sub-groups as you say we interbred and therefore we are just one human race now or soon.
Its not being racist, it is just statistics and if we had a look statistically 600 or so years ago you could group evolutionary traits to certain regions... i.e no blue eye/blon hair in africa/asia mainly around scandinavia.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
I agree with you Neas...
what I disagreed with in my post was Xira stating that people can be clumped in genetically defined classes based on a few genetic characteristics and then ultimately claim which 'race' is least intelligent, most intelligent, strongest, weakest, etc. based only on a particular researchers criteria.
Defining people and ranking and judging based on these criteria does lend to racist ideals- if people are considered inferior or superior depending on what ' race' they fall into.
I do agree that due to environmental variables, cultural differences, isolation, breeding, etc, you can get a sub-group of people that may have very similar abilities and traits - but they are not a new race -- they are still part of the 'human race'.
ya at the moment we have 1 human race
If say we as human beings were seperated for long periods of times such as the galapagos(sp?) islands humans would split into different races. These genetic differences are the start of the evolutionary paths of different races.
For example neandertals are human but not classes as homosapien i.e a different race because they were seperated from their homosapien cousins for so long they changed significantly enough to be classified differently. Only through seperation over long periods of times do new races appear.
We dont have that at the moment and i bet in 500 years we wont even see the differences we see between the races at the moment as all the races inbred etc... blue eyes and blond hair being recessive will eventually be bred out, so we will become dark hair, brown eyed etc.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
What will he do next?
Ok, so you are pigeon-holing intelligence by IQ scores? Do you know how IQ tests are made? PSYCHOLOGISTS make them; people that haven't taken first order logic (or anything above calculus for that matter) are trying to assess a person's intelligence.
Although if intelligence were based on IQ scores I would have nothing to complain about
, I don't find it fair to the population of individuals that are only gifted in certain areas: I knew different people that were mathematical geniuses, but could not pull off a 160 in IQ tests because of the verbal assessment (which happened to be weighted quite heavily).
It's very ironic how a lot of geneticists make macro-hypotheses about things that are so immensely complex (like intelligence, or behavior), because of their need to biject a person to their genepool (or so it seems?).
The problem with IQ tests is that they do not cover the vast range of cognitive abilities: Recognizing and creating bijections (a combinatorically gifted friend I have), logically deducing statements from others at a fast rate, creating functions or sets of assumptions that fit models (Cantor, Bernstein, Goedel, Einstein) , and countably many more.
I have seen African-Americans (or blacks as you call them) that were mathematically gifted (although statistics would make all of them OUTLIERS), inane Asians, Whites that were more stupid than any black I had ever seen, and Jews(the racial interpretation, don't expect me to remember any terminology heh) that were equally stupid.
So the ancient Egyptians that had practically created geometry and implemented it so brilliantly must have been stupid because they were black?
Stupid and smart are injections of a boolean value into something that is possibly infinite.
Why do you insist on propagating this sort of idiocy? Are you one of the Boys From Brazil?
"Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land. Nothing is sacred."
MP
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Is this a quote or a version of some quote? Can't place it - but it's pretty profound.
Would make a nice tag-line.
No, it's not a quote. Smart and stupid are two values {0,{0}} or {0,1} (just any tuple of two elements).
An injection is a mapping of one entire set (so all of the elements of some set X) into another(some set Y).
Ex. mapping of integers to reals f(x) = y (where x = y) X = Z (set of integers), Y = R (set of reals).
Obviously, not all values of the set of reals are "touched" by this function Ex. (there is no f(x) such that f(x) = 1.1 or any other decimal value), so that injective functions don't necessarily need to hit ALL of the set Y that is being mapped to, but need to use up all of X.
"Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land. Nothing is sacred."
MP
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.