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Selling money (influence, credits, isk)
kmimmorpg
Member Posts: 624
I've seen websites, including ebay, that sell "money" for different mmorpgs. I assume it is legal.
I was wondering do the software companies make money this way? Or just individuals?
Is this why some people power-level? A semi-fun way to make some money on the side?
Do you think it take away from the game? If you can just buy what you need instead of working for it the hard way? Or is this the American way?
Also, does it prove there is something wrong with the game, if you need to spend additional money outside the money you spend each month to progress?
I haven't played long enough to be very far in any of the mmorpgs I play, so I don't know if this is true, but I would think it is unfair for someone to - say buy enough money to equip their ship (think of EVE online) and then be able to subdue other "poor" players...
Any thoughts?
Comments
This is a hot topic in one of the Suggestions Threads...
It is not illegal. No LAWS against it.
But many games have RULES against it...
I personally wouldn't spend cash to buy an item in a game. If the game isn't fun enough to try to get the item yourself, then why play the game?
But, I guess if a person wanted an item bad enough and didn't want to spend 6 (or more) hours in the game just trying to get that item, then they could buy it. And if your time has any value, they will probably have saved money in the end.
I don't see it as hurting the game, but some people believe it does.
I did a search but it crashed...
I can see it hurting the economy, how can regular players purchase things if the price is "artificially" steep?
Well everytime you log into a mmorpg there is an agreement you sign and agree to.
This for most mmorpg include not been able to sell virtual items.So if caught you can get your account banned.
The companies that run this game do not make a profit from it.However some companies like www.ign.com do sell and buy this items and make a profit.
I think it's ridiculous that people spend lots of money on non existant stuff. Hundreds of dollars at times! This stuff's not real! It's never gonna be yours! It can be taken away at any time for any reason. It's a complete waste of money, like hiring a hooker or throwing your cash down the sewer.
If it were small change we were talking about that's different. But this is big money being spent on nothing. It's ludicrous.
As far as the game, it can really hurt it. In games like EQ where camping is the norm, people claiming parts of the game for themselves all day long for the sake of making money take away from those that just want to have fun. I've seen it happen, and I hate it.
EDIT: I do have to say I'm tempted to try running a small home-based business selling items and money for the most popular games out there
Take advantage of the weirdos with all that expendable income, and have fun in the process. It's the American Dream.
I agree...
But there are two sides to look at. Let's say I make $25 an hour at work. Now, camping a specific items takes about 4 hours, that is $100. If that item could be bought on eBay for $50, the person who bought it has saved money. Now, there are a lot of people who make a hell of a lot more than $25 an hour. Their time is very valuable, they have lots of expendable cash, and they have little time to be screwing around camping for items.
In my opinion, if you have so little time to play that you need to purchase items out of game, then you shouldn't be playing MMORPG's.
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This is part of the discussion in the other thread.
The Lineage 2 problem is not a selling outside of the game problem. It is the fact that this farming of money by the Adena farmers is even possible. They just need to fix the game to keep it from happening.
I have never played this game, is it so fun that you are willing to suffer through this? If people were to quit in hordes, they would fix it.
Cheat? Interesting wording...
If the game is Non-PvP, then why does one person need a "competitive edge" over another?
Have you ever given a decent weapon or item from one of your characters to another? Have you ever had a friend give you a cool item, or had someone just walking by randmonly give you an item or money? Then you have basically just performed the exact same cheat. Giving an item to a character that did not earn it.
Why does it have to involve an exchange of real life money on the outside of the game for it to be a cheat?
If that is the case, all the devs have to do is make it impossible to give something away at an unfair value. Don't let character A give something to character B without B giving something of equal value back. Simple fix...
Require the items in the trade window to be of equal value or deny the trade. And if Player A puts something on the ground, don't let any other players pick it up. That would give the other player an unfair advantage. He got something he didn't earn.
You can't "fix" farming, it goes on in any game. The only reason why its so apparent in L2 is because many asian players do it, instead of american players.
But lots of the people who sell to the adena companies are indeed westerners.
And, yes, the buying is a problem in the game, especially because its a PvP game. Lots of clans adena buy themselves to edges they would not normally have.
I find it really sad that MMORPG.COM would outright support these sites by advertising them.
1. Giving items to others is not against the game rules, but it *is* against the game rules to buy the online cash. Just like its allowed to borrow money in some versions of monopoly, but its not allowed to steal from the bank.
2. Because cheat = playing a game without following the rules.
Give me a break. Sounds like the game has horrible flaws. Quit!
Or, join a guild that has real life money so you can compete.
Doesn't it bother you, that by playing and not buying stuff, you are just fodder for the poeple doing it? Why put yourself through the misery?
What are you talking about, its called GAME RULES. MMORPG have those, thank god. Too bad some people can't stay within rules of a game they play.
I play the games I do because they are good games, even with cheaters detracting from it.
imo people make too much of a big deal out of selling stuff for RL money. Sure, some people play games like a business and they may indirectly affect you by doing it, but i'd say in most cases theres enough equal opportunity to have fun in those games or acquire something with some effort. Some people seem to solely blame ebayers but imo and from experience thats a copout w/o really trying.
I just dont think ebay or anything like that ruins games as much as some people make out. If anything it adds more worth to the time someone spends playing a mmorpg. I think some people harp on it so much or worry about it and automatically assume the game is ruined by ebay that their mindset ruins their own game experience, because they dont try and automatically assume getting something is impossible w/o even trying.
I dont ebay btw, i did a long time ago with my UO account but havent since then, in whcihc i've had plenty of opportunities to do it. I guess i'm too lazy. I just dont think its as big a deal as many others seem to make out. If someone wants to spend money on virtual stuff, thats their prerogative. Theres a market for everything these days....
it is quite a big deal, especially when there are limited items in the game, PvP or other such things. A game shouldn't be decided on how big your wallet is.
well i think more times than not people use ebay as a scapegoat for why they couldnt get the item, when the blame lies somewhere else. I really didnt read this thread other than the original post so maybe it was already mentioned. Many times in EQ people will pharm items, i did it with the Erollsi bracer back in the day. It was a lore item meaning you could only have 1 of them in your inventory/bank at a time, but it had nice stats for a noobie'sh item. So what i did was camp it, go to East Commons and sell it, then camp it again, and repeat. It wasnt a very competetive spawn either mainly cuz it was lore, but i did occasionally run into people who were there for it. I'm sure some might've got the impression i was ebay camping it, reality is in EQ, finding a good money-maker spawn item and selling it is a good way of making money. And i can see that being misinterpreted as people ebaying the item because their repeatedly camping the same item over and over again.
I just think Ebay gets blamed unfairly in many cases for people's frustration with camped spawns or inability to get an item. I also think some people barely put in any effort to get something and automatically blame Ebay acting like its impossible. I just dont think the problem is nearly as rampant or something to be as concnered about as some people make out.
I do believe that if you have a some very rare and good equipment and if it can be sold for cool real cash... why not? I have seen hard core players making a living by selling mmorpg games items.
But on the other hand, I hate those gamers who uses bots or hacks and deprive other gamers a fair chance to get the game item..
The Best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time.
The Best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time.
Yes roh some people scapegoat the Ebayers when the real fault lies elsewhere.
At the same time the Ebays really do cause some people to not be able to get item X.
Example 1) Lineage 2. (Insert any pvp game here)
If you want a castle in Lineage 2...Well you have to have a couple hundred people who all play hardcore 10+ hours a day. Other than that you also need money...Money to buy Adena. Without it you will lose in PvP to someone who does have it. This is a case of Ebay directly affecting the availability of an in-game item, castles.
Example 2) Everquest and (Insert Everquest Clone Here).
If you want a top tier item in EQ you are directly competeing with everyone else who wants the item. Lower level in EQ there isn't much competition...Plenty of places to go, plenty of good items, everything respawns really fast. Top tier EQ is diffrent....If you want something you must wait your turn to raid it. Things spawn once a month and drops the item 25% of the time.....If an ebayer buys a single item it doubles or triples the amount of time you must play to get that item. Considering a single item in EQ can be 'worth' 1000+ man-hours in time or money...It's easy to see how someone would be upset at haveing to wait an additional 6 months to get the item because a guy on ebay had 500 dollars.
Even in a non-pvp game(but especially in pvp games) ebay does directly hurt people who try to play the game without it.
But it's not going away.
Get money to buy ebay, or lose your life..Or get out.
It's just that simple/
But, didn't the guy selling the item on eBay have to follow the same rules as everybody else to get the item? He had to camp it just like everybody else, he had to wait in line, he had to wait his turn, etc...
You keep saying the fact that he is selling outside of the game makes it wrong. But what if that same guy was doing the exact same thing, except instead of selling them item on eBay he was selling it in game. Then it is OK??? What is the difference?
In this situation, if the laws of supply and demand apply (which they usually do), then say he sells the item for $200. How much does the item sell for in game? 1,000,000 plat? Then 1,000,000 plat is probably worth $200. So, if he takes the item and sells it on eBay and not make it available to you in game for 1,000,000 plat, then all you would have to do is sell said plat on eBay then buy said item.
The end is the same, no matter how the transfer takes place.
Couldnt have said it better myself. As much fun should be in the journey as the destination.
--------------------
Played: Asheron's Call 1, Dark Age of Camelot, Earth & Beyond, Star Wars Galaxies
Tested: Asheron's Call 1, Asheron's Call 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Eve Online, Lineage 2, Risk Your Life, Saga of Ryzom, World of Warcraft
Uninstalled ASAP: MU Online, Knight Online, Rubies of Eventide, Priston Tales, Star Sonata, DarkSpace
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Originally posted by TaskyZZ
But, didn't the guy selling the item on eBay have to follow the same rules as everybody else to get the item? He had to camp it just like everybody else, he had to wait in line, he had to wait his turn, etc...
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A) Not nessicarily:) Ebay provides a much greater incentive to cheat/exploit/use others to gain said item.
Thus Ebay does affect the game.
Just not the case. The end is not the same because the existance of a 2ndary market for these in-game goods creates additional competition, resulting in a longer average time to aquire the item.
This is just the PvE game example...If something in a PvP game has market-value they can DIRECTLY prevent you from getting it. Would they be there PKing you if it couldn't sell on Ebay? Probaly not. Thus your game experiance and ability to compete for in-game resources(I.E. castles) is reduced by Ebay.
You are right Xira, ebay does affect the game - it affects it about as much as an in-game marketplace, or someone giving an item to a newbie, or any kind of transfer within the game really.
Some people find incentives within the game to farm items. Some people find incentives outside of the game to farm items. Many times I have farmed items and sold those items in the game in order to gain a better advantage over others. How is this any different than selling that item on ebay? An item within the game has only as much value as other people derive from it. Some people will place real life value on it, others will place virtual world value on it.
Say I log in once a day to farm an item that only spawns once a day and is in fairly high demand. I then turn around and sell that item for X amount of gold. How does that affect you who are trying to get that item any differently than if I were to ebay it? You still can't get the item unless you pony up the money (virtual or otherwise) to get it. In fact, selling that item within the game will allow me to have a far greater advantage in the game than if I were to sell it for real life cash because I could then buy things within the game that may be beyond my ability to get otherwise. Wouldn't that be more considered 'cheating' than selling it on ebay?
I just don't get the logic of the anti-ebay crowd. The only thing I can see their argument coming from is emotions.... Gosh dangit, that idiot won the /random for that dragon-drop-of-uberness and he doesn't even need it, now he's going to ebay it! That's not any different if they sold it for a couple million plat. They helped work for the item, won it, and can use it or sell it how they please. Ebaying it has absolutely no more impact than selling it or giving it away within the game. It's the act of farming itself that hurts the economy.
The reason why many game companies frown on the practice of ebaying is because they want a piece of that real life money too, and eventually, they will find a way to tap into it.
Yes, it does have about that effect. It is however addative with an in-game marketplace and does not replace it.
If Ebay did not exist in a hypothetical world then there would be less total people who could possibly obtain item X. People who make large amounts of RL money but have little time to play the game would simply be out of the competition. Weather this is a good thing or not is a matter of opinon...But the fact that it exists is just that.
Simple supply & Demand economics take over here. With less total people competeing for the same amount of resources the demand for the resources will fall. Thus item X will be worth less.
If more people compete for an item, say because they have money and can afford to buy the item on Ebay, the price of that item rises.
Ebay directly affects the value of an item in-game by createing competitors who would not otherwise exist. This directly increases the price of the item.
There may be some particular item that would be sought after by every person in the game, but even then it would still be effected by Ebay...Without ebay there are less people who can play the game at the level of the item in question, thus there is less competition, thus there is less demand, thus the price goes down.
Because there are people who would not farm the item for in-game advantage but who would farm the item for Ebay money. Just because _YOU_ would not do it does not mean there are not people who would. You are just one man, you mean nothing.
You must look at this statistically, something only the great minds can do naturally. An increase in the number of people willing to farm for whatever item leads to an increase in price, even if that person is not you.
There is a limit in games to how powerful you can become.(In most cases) At some point it would no longer be worth farming that item, you would now go farm some other more profitable item. Unless that item sells on Ebay, in which case you might choose to keep farming it for sale there. If a single person chooses to keep farming that item for sale on Ebay beyond what it can gain their charecter, then the price rises because there is now one more person in competition for that item.
Again, you must learn to look at this in a diffrent way to see what it is we see. If you are not capable of that, then you will not see what we see.