Funny thing is other MMOs have made promises that devs didnt keep either what makes this one so different?
The difference is that when I happened upon one of those other MMOs while browsing this site, and then went to their features list and bought the game, I actually saw all of those features in game.
As it stands, anyone who heads to darkfall's main site, reads the features, then orders the game, will be buying something that's different than was advertised to them.
Then it would be false advertisement.That could mean massive law suites if people dont get there money back.
It isn't false advertisement because information on these features being removed is readily available to anyone that has done the minimum amount of research. It's stated in several interviews what was removed and why. In dev journals, in Dev posts on the official forums etc etc etc. As long as the information is available it isn't false advertisement. AoC managed to avoid this by posting DX10 wasn't going to be in like 1 day before launch. Aventurines info about what has been removed has been available for a very long time lol, some of it for years.
It isn't false advertisement because information on these features being removed is readily available to anyone that has done the minimum amount of research. It's stated in several interviews what was removed and why. In dev journals, in Dev posts on the official forums etc etc etc. As long as the information is available it isn't false advertisement. AoC managed to avoid this by posting DX10 wasn't going to be in like 1 day before launch. Aventurines info about what has been removed has been available for a very long time lol, some of it for years.
If it was removed, why is it still on the site?
People shouldn't have to hunt and peck through all developer journals and dev posts in a forum to find out that the features listed on the OFFICIAL site of the game have been removed.
I can't see how anyone can logically think this is acceptable. Your whole defense is that someone should read every piece of information on the game EXCEPT the OFFICIAL SITE? How does that make any sense?
What is it with mmo fans and 'promises?' I'm not defending Darkfall, its a mess, but no one at Aventurine or any other game company has 'promised' you anything. They laid out a set of features they intended to include. Some made it, some didn't, but nothing was promised. Welcome to software development, or prety much any creative endeavor in the history of man. Jeez, stop using the word 'promise,' it makes you all sound so utterly clueless about the way the world works.
When they said back in 08 december i imagine tasos claimed the game was launch ready and complete...that to me shows a little form of a promise.
Lol, then you need to revisit your definition, and stop being so guilible that you actually believe what comes out of the mouth of a public relations guy like Tasos.
If Tasos is in public relations then he should find a diferent job. You don't see me dismanteling bombs do you?
Another Fail post is another Fail post. Look, if your not going to research MMO's it's probably best not to play them. Faq's are regularly outdated and fast. Not only that but what is initially planned to be in is never everything that will be in. Some things get cut, others get added. It's the nature of the beast. If you truly want to limit your dissapointment from an MMO, keep up to date on it. In this case you did not and it shows.
Edited to add: I too was in beta, my forum name is GrayGhost79 there.
No offense: The OP has a valid point, granted he was a bit 'flamey' about it but his point is valid. It's fine that the FAQ was outdated, you're right. But when you are putting a game up for pre-order and your FRONT PAGE features that FAQ as a list of features provided in the game it better be Accurate. People should not have to research on forums to see if the features advertised on the front page of the website are accurate or not.
I've been playing online games since a good chunk of the people on this site were in diapers. No offense guys but the crap you are spewing is just defensive garbage. Adventurine should have either pulled the faq off the front page and replaced it with a true feature list or kept the faq updated. Period.
If you think Darkfall is still an OK game that's fine. But the OP is 100% correct: Adventurine screwed up by not keeping that faq updated or replacing it with an actual featurelist that matches the in game content as their feature list on the main site. The fact that they didn't and then launched a pre-order is very close to false advertisement.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
It isn't false advertisement because information on these features being removed is readily available to anyone that has done the minimum amount of research. It's stated in several interviews what was removed and why. In dev journals, in Dev posts on the official forums etc etc etc. As long as the information is available it isn't false advertisement. AoC managed to avoid this by posting DX10 wasn't going to be in like 1 day before launch. Aventurines info about what has been removed has been available for a very long time lol, some of it for years.
If it was removed, why is it still on the site?
People shouldn't have to hunt and peck through all developer journals and dev posts in a forum to find out that the features listed on the OFFICIAL site of the game have been removed.
I can't see how anyone can logically think this is acceptable. Your whole defense is that someone should read every piece of information on the game EXCEPT the OFFICIAL SITE? How does that make any sense?
There are no safe zones in Darkfall unless the players themselves create them or seek them out. There is no area where a player cannot be attacked by another player. Towers are in game and are safe zones. Towers can not keep you from getting killed and looted. If your at war with another clan, they can kill you in town without fear of towers. Secondly enough people can take you down while naked so that someone else can loot you. So you are incorrect there are no safe zones. They are safer than being out in the wild, but not by much. Towers deter combat. You shouldn't have to be at war with another clan in order to be attackable. I realize that you can exploit the tower's weaknesses to still kill people, but people are HUDDLING AROUND THESE TOWERS BECAUSE OF THEIR PROTECTION. This is a safe zone man, you're kidding yourself if you try to claim otherwise. I don?t like PvP, why should I even consider trying out Darkfall?
If you give it a chance, you?ll discover that Darkfall is an extremely well rounded game. For example, there?s as much effort going into the quest engine and the crafting process, as there is going into the combat design. Darkfall features the ultimate player based economy, more useful trade skills than any other released MMORPG to date, advanced NPC and monster AI, and a quest engine constantly creating new and challenging content. Furthermore, the game world is huge; you could move to a remote area with your friends and try to create a safe haven for other like-minded players. It's been said many times that pvp is the main focus of darkfall and everything else is wow carebear fluff. The crafting system is boring, the quest system sucks, and the ai is ridiculous.
Enchanting in DFO is one of the most amazing craft systems I have come across in MMORPG's. You have to discover the reciepe's, there is no NPC to sale them to you or teach them to you. It's a lot of trial and error. The ingredients come from skinning the corpse of mobs. Very nice system if you ask me and a lot of fun. The rest of the crafting system is like UO though, simple and to the point. Add in the Enchanting system though and man is it sweet.
AI in DFO is far more challenging than the AI of other MMO's. You try and box mobs in, they jump over you and get out, they go after the weakest target, they switch if that target is unreachable. Etc. AI in DFO isn't ridiculous, unless you meant ridiculously fun. This of course is a matter of opinion. Unlike you I will state it as such. Let's be honest here... The mobs run around in circles. We all know that. They run around in circles and it becomes an exercise of trying to keep them on your screen, or just standing still and waiting for them to stop running, or trying to pick them off with an arrow. I shouldn't need a 2000dpi mouse to keep the mobs targeted. I have no problem playing FPS games like Quake or CS, so I shouldn't be having trouble targeting in this game. Also, I'm glad to hear that Enchanting is nice. Too bad that's only one crafting skill... How are you going to handle Player Killing?
Anyone can attack anyone. In fact Darkfall encourages you to seek out and kill enemies of your race and your clan. However, it is up to each kingdom to set the rules of their borders. The different kingdoms have NPC guards that have orders given to them by the player kings and lords. You can order the guards to attack on sight. The guard ?hit list? can include clan names, individual player names, specific races, alignments, and enemies. NPC guards are in fact not in game, due to resource problems. What's gonna happen when a few thousand players log on? Oh wait... The NPC guards were out long ago, and we were told long ago they were. As for what happens when a few thousand players long on............ well, I wonder if it ever occured to you thats one of the reasons they took out the NPC guards as well as kept the world and items within a certain polygon count, as well as not allowing items to be dropped on the ground. In essence your simply getting on there case for giving a bit of forethought to the situation lol. Obviously they were out long ago. Anyone reading the forums knows this. However, they would definitely have to do some searching to find it, unless a thread relating to it happened to be on the first page. The official features list was never updated to reflect this. Most players who are looking to buy this game right now probably think it does have NPC guards. If they have to start cutting content and features because there engine can't support them, then the game is a failure at its innermost How do spawns work? Are they static or dynamic?
Our random spawns are dynamic. Clear out a spawn and it will not reappear in the same place. If you spend enough time killing a species, its presence in that area will thin out and eventually the species will migrate to a different area. Not sure about this one. Anyone? As of right now, some spawns seem to be static and others seem dynamic. It's to early to tell though since no one has had much time to play around with it.
What are the Prestige classes?
Prestige classes are special classes, like Paladin, Assassin, Gladiator, Enchanter etc. and it?s an optional path that you may choose for your character to follow. Prestige classes were removed from the game. We were told this a long time ago lol. Very long time ago lol. There on the back burner for now as is the Aquatic race. They may never be put in game, but this is something we have been informed of a good while back. I never heard about an Aquatic race. And who is this "we" you keep referring to? Not everyone buying this game has been following the forums for many years like you or I have. I dont care that they were removed, I didn't like them anyways. But, unless someone's been following the forums on a daily basis, they probably didn't know Prestige classes were out. Will there be player owned houses?
Players will be able to set up houses of various sizes and design, ranging from small cottages to huge castles and citadels. Player houses were quietly removed from the game. This is a loss as of right now. With the clan city dynamics and the fact that player houses were going to be destructable not many seem to care, even myself who was a very avid fan of Player Owned houses. Yeah... it's a bitch man. Houses were one of the main reasons I wanted to play the game, because house fighting in UO was loads of fun. Camping someones house until they log out of frustration, or hiding next to an IDOC and waiting for all hell to break loose. Player housing was one of the biggest "sandbox" features Darkfall claimed to have. It was removed and the official feature list was not updated. Can I design my own house?
Yes you can. Read above point. Read above point. Why so many skills and spells?
We would like to make combat, spell casting, trading, and item creation as interesting as possible. Our goal is to promote more variety in combat and allow for a large number of possible combinations to be used in offense and in defense, rather than the same predictable routines being used over and over. The bit about using the same routines over and over struck me as funny. You did read that they were talking about combat right? And no it's not the same routine. The higher you get your skills the more they do, there's a spell that can knock back enemies, one that can levitate you up to rooftops and into trees, etc etc etc. You get into a routine and stick with it, your going to fail a good bit, you change with the situation, your going to accel. You're probably right on this issue. There is still quite a bit of grind going on in Darkfall though. What types of items can I make?
You will be able to make almost every item found in the world like weapons, tools, armor, clothing, food, containers, furniture, jewelry etc. Furniture? This was with player housing I believe, and is the only place I could see this being used considering. So if the player housing is on the back burner it's pretty logical to think furniture would be as well.
What other options other than joining a Clan do I have?
You are only limited by your imagination in what else you can do, but here are some examples to get you going: You could be a lone adventurer, hunting for treasure, magical items and fame, or a mercenary selling your services to the highest bidder. You may choose to play a merchant, setting up caravans and shops in different cities, buying high quality hides from Mahirim hunters and selling them for top prices at Human cities. You could hook up with a few friends and be pirates, sailing your galleon around, plundering merchant ships, or choose to play the Dwarven blacksmith, crafting mighty magical weapons and armor, or perhaps a farmer producing rare herbs and spell reagents. The possibilities are limitless. Most of this is pretty ridiculous and obviously false, so I'm not going to elaborate. It's good you didn't elaborate, you limited how foolish you look. The caravans are still possible if you wish, they simply must be done by players. If your in a city selling your wares, you have infact setup shop. The rest is also very possible to do in DFO. Caravans and Shops as we would like them to be are not in as of yet, Caravans have been removed all together since players can do this on there own if they wish and the Universal Banks make this an uneeded thing, although it is still entirely possible for players to do so anyways lol. So again fail on your part. Caravans are pretty much worthless with universal banking. Setting up shop in a city makes sense, except you really aren't setting up shop, you're just placing a NPC vendor (i'd assume). I agree with you, caravans and shops as we would like them to be are not in as of yet. In fact... Dude, you pretty much contradict the whole first half of that paragraph - with the second half of that paragraph. How will trading work?
We have developed a pretty sophisticated trading system that brings buyers and sellers together easily, and it will work in, but also out of the game. There will be more on this at a later date. Release is here and I've yet to see anything more than a basic crafting system. When is this later date? Expansion two years down the road?
Can I have pets or NPC hirelings in Darkfall?
You can have pets and NPC hirelings in Darkfall, ranging from tamed animals and monsters, to summoned skeletons, charmed animals and monsters, hired NPC merchants, hired NPC guards, etc. 100% False. Aye, this is False and we were told a year or more ago that none of that would be in game. You had a very very long time to prepare for these not being in game. It is your own fault if you were still expecting them.
Head over to darkfall.com like any random dude coming to this site and clicking the darkfall banner would do, and show me where I can find that information? What can my NPC hirelings do?
NPC hirelings can follow you around and fight with you, they can carry your loot, they can perform skills and spells to aid you, etc. NPC hirelings can do pretty much everything that player friends can do. In addition, NPC hirelings can be given advanced orders such as patrolling your city, looking for enemies, criminals, and thieves. They can be a vendor in your shop that you have set up, they can mine for minerals in a mine, they can go out into the forest and chop wood for you, or stand on the banks of a river fishing for you all day. Obviously, all false. Too bad they didn't implement this or so many ppl might not be macroing. Again this was removed more than a year ago. Sorry that you are just finding out what many of us have no for a very long time lol.
It's a good thing I've known about all of this stuff for years... What was your forum join date? Will there be a community staff?
Yes, there are plans for community staff that will be in place for the game launch and it will be selected for the most part from the Darkfall Community Volunteers. The role of the community staff will be to provide customer support and in-game assistance. Again, it's launch time. Where's this community staff? Many have been standing around in the world of Agon observing, you know the bugs and the sync issue that everyones complaining about. Seen a few myself. They have the Shield over there head that says Admin on it. You may have missed it. Admins != comunity staff man. How often can we expect announcements and updates to the site?
We will have regular news updates, screenshots, announcements, FAQ updates, downloads, and progress reports on the official Darkfall site. This is on the site that still displays a beta signup.
Will there be a public beta test?
There will be a public beta test. Fail. I was in Beta, as many of my clan mates, as well as many others I knew. So in your own words here. You FAIL I was in beta too. It wasn't an open beta. It was a closed, invite only beta. A lot of you will begin crying that the site isn't updated and everyone knows that and should have been following the forums. Guys, most people won't check the forums before buying the game. Not everyone is as hardcore as you are. The fact is that this is the OFFICIAL site. If a site like mmorpg.com wanted to know what was up with some random MMO, where do you think they'd go to get a list of features and development status? Darkfall has not lived up to its promises. Your complaining about the Faq not being updated. Many have complained and agreed with thos that do complain about this. The information is out there, people have to research it like those that know have. Personally I research any game I intend to play which is how I came across all the information I have which you seem to lack. I agree with you, people should be doing their research, but that doesn't excuse a blunder like this from a suppsoedly professional game release. Wasn't it just two years ago that we were gloating about Darkfall's immense funding from Aventurine? *edit* Darkfall places no restrictions on player interaction, so there are no developer imposed safe zones, no realms, factions, PvP zones, or any other roadblocks that limit your game. Anyone can fight anyone, anywhere as long as they are willing to face the consequences - in the form of Darkfall?s alignment system. Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in this statement? It definitely contradicts itself... There are no safe zones, try playing the game and you will find this out. They are safer than other areas, but they are not completely safe lol. And the rest is true, you can fight anyone you want anywhere and at any time. My statements and yours simply show the Difference between someone who hasn't done any research on the game and hasn't played the game vs. someone who has done plenty of research on the game and has played the game. I've played the game, and I wasn't referring to safe zones. I was referring to their statement that there are "no factions" and "no restrictions on player interaction", when they've OBVIOUSLY released the game with a race-based faction system that restricts players from attacking their same race and rewards them for attacking "enemy" races. Also - yeah, I have a bit of free time today. And, I'm pissed that they left out a lot of the features that truly make it a SANDBOX, as everyone keeps claiming it is. Sue me for expecting what's advertised. There is no fault in expecting whats advertised, but expecting whats been advertised many years ago and has since changed and has been stated as changed in numerous readily available places is a fault but not Aventurines. Yes, we all agree there website needs to be updated. We all agree on this, every last one of us. Haters and fans. The information however is out there if you do even the bare minimum amount of research. The fault here truly rests on your own shoulders considering I know the above and you do not. If you had done the research that so many others have, then you would know how things stand today. Aventurine has not lied, you simply have not done even the slightest amount of research.
On MMORPG.com alone there is plenty of current info which contridicts a lot of the faq. Learn to research before you buy games man. They are constantly changing things. When you first hear about it then play it usualy a lot has changed regardless of how recently you read up on it. This is a constant with any and all MMO's. Be thankfull there not Funcom who pretty much said one day before launch that DX10 was not going to be in game lol.
Another Fail post is another Fail post. Look, if your not going to research MMO's it's probably best not to play them. Faq's are regularly outdated and fast. Not only that but what is initially planned to be in is never everything that will be in. Some things get cut, others get added. It's the nature of the beast. If you truly want to limit your dissapointment from an MMO, keep up to date on it. In this case you did not and it shows.
Edited to add: I too was in beta, my forum name is GrayGhost79 there.
I like this format of discussion. Makes things easy to address
*edit for everyone else*
I'm white and orange, he's yellow. Official FAQ is green.
There are no safe zones in Darkfall unless the players themselves create them or seek them out. There is no area where a player cannot be attacked by another player. Towers are in game and are safe zones. Towers in game are NOT safe zones. You can be killed inside of them. If someone sits inside the tower protection afk with armor on he WILL die.
I don?t like PvP, why should I even consider trying out Darkfall?
If you give it a chance, you?ll discover that Darkfall is an extremely well rounded game. For example, there?s as much effort going into the quest engine and the crafting process, as there is going into the combat design. Darkfall features the ultimate player based economy, more useful trade skills than any other released MMORPG to date, advanced NPC and monster AI, and a quest engine constantly creating new and challenging content. Furthermore, the game world is huge; you could move to a remote area with your friends and try to create a safe haven for other like-minded players. It's been said many times that pvp is the main focus of darkfall and everything else is wow carebear fluff. The crafting system is boring, the quest system sucks, and the ai is ridiculous. Many people like the crafting system, I have not tried it as of yet so I can not give an opinion. From what I have heard it could use improvments. Bugged AI does not count, the AI overall is decent....no better or worse than other MMOs. So yes it could use improvment. And I dont do quests so.
How are you going to handle Player Killing?
Anyone can attack anyone. In fact Darkfall encourages you to seek out and kill enemies of your race and your clan. However, it is up to each kingdom to set the rules of their borders. The different kingdoms have NPC guards that have orders given to them by the player kings and lords. You can order the guards to attack on sight. The guard ?hit list? can include clan names, individual player names, specific races, alignments, and enemies. NPC guards are in fact not in game, due to resource problems. What's gonna happen when a few thousand players log on? Oh wait... Few thousand players logged on in beta so I do not know where you are going with this. NPC guards NPC towers same difference.
How do spawns work? Are they static or dynamic?
Our random spawns are dynamic. Clear out a spawn and it will not reappear in the same place. If you spend enough time killing a species, its presence in that area will thin out and eventually the species will migrate to a different area. Not sure about this one. Anyone? The ones I saw in beta were not dynamic.
What are the Prestige classes?
Prestige classes are special classes, like Paladin, Assassin, Gladiator, Enchanter etc. and it?s an optional path that you may choose for your character to follow. Prestige classes were removed from the game. Known for a long time.
Will there be player owned houses?
Players will be able to set up houses of various sizes and design, ranging from small cottages to huge castles and citadels. Player houses were quietly removed from the game. ^^
Can I design my own house?
Yes you can. Read above point. ^^^
Why so many skills and spells?
We would like to make combat, spell casting, trading, and item creation as interesting as possible. Our goal is to promote more variety in combat and allow for a large number of possible combinations to be used in offense and in defense, rather than the same predictable routines being used over and over. The bit about using the same routines over and over struck me as funny. That is kind of funny. Can be fixed with more skills and spells being added to the game.
What types of items can I make?
You will be able to make almost every item found in the world like weapons, tools, armor, clothing, food, containers, furniture, jewelry etc. Furniture? Went away with houses. We will most likely see houses in the future though.
What other options other than joining a Clan do I have?
You are only limited by your imagination in what else you can do, but here are some examples to get you going: You could be a lone adventurer, hunting for treasure, magical items and fame, or a mercenary selling your services to the highest bidder. You may choose to play a merchant, setting up caravans and shops in different cities, buying high quality hides from Mahirim hunters and selling them for top prices at Human cities. You could hook up with a few friends and be pirates, sailing your galleon around, plundering merchant ships, or choose to play the Dwarven blacksmith, crafting mighty magical weapons and armor, or perhaps a farmer producing rare herbs and spell reagents. The possibilities are limitless. Most of this is pretty ridiculous and obviously false, so I'm not going to elaborate. Lone adventurer? Yes you can. One of the only games were exploring the world is fun. Hunt for treasure? Yes again. Magical items and fame? Yep. Mercs? Yes sir. Shops? Was not in beta, hopefully we will see this in release or the future. Pirate? Yes. Blacksmith? Yes. Farmer? Not really atm.
So ya most of those are not false, only a few.
How will trading work?
We have developed a pretty sophisticated trading system that brings buyers and sellers together easily, and it will work in, but also out of the game. There will be more on this at a later date. Release is here and I've yet to see anything more than a basic crafting system. When is this later date? Expansion two years down the road? Dunno. They will have to get some type of trading system in the game fairly soon I would think.
Can I have pets or NPC hirelings in Darkfall?
You can have pets and NPC hirelings in Darkfall, ranging from tamed animals and monsters, to summoned skeletons, charmed animals and monsters, hired NPC merchants, hired NPC guards, etc. 100% False. Known for a long time....keep up.
What can my NPC hirelings do?
NPC hirelings can follow you around and fight with you, they can carry your loot, they can perform skills and spells to aid you, etc. NPC hirelings can do pretty much everything that player friends can do. In addition, NPC hirelings can be given advanced orders such as patrolling your city, looking for enemies, criminals, and thieves. They can be a vendor in your shop that you have set up, they can mine for minerals in a mine, they can go out into the forest and chop wood for you, or stand on the banks of a river fishing for you all day. Obviously, all false. Too bad they didn't implement this or so many ppl might not be macroing. Read above.
Will there be a community staff?
Yes, there are plans for community staff that will be in place for the game launch and it will be selected for the most part from the Darkfall Community Volunteers. The role of the community staff will be to provide customer support and in-game assistance. Again, it's launch time. Where's this community staff? Mods on the DF forums? Yes? Support in game? Doubt it atm.
How often can we expect announcements and updates to the site?
We will have regular news updates, screenshots, announcements, FAQ updates, downloads, and progress reports on the official Darkfall site. This is on the site that still displays a beta signup.
Will there be a public beta test?
There will be a public beta test. Fail.
A lot of you will begin crying that the site isn't updated and everyone knows that and should have been following the forums. Guys, most people won't check the forums before buying the game. Not everyone is as hardcore as you are. The fact is that this is the OFFICIAL site. If a site like mmorpg.com wanted to know what was up with some random MMO, where do you think they'd go to get a list of features and development status? Darkfall has not lived up to its promises.
*edit* Darkfall places no restrictions on player interaction, so there are no developer imposed safe zones, no realms, factions, PvP zones, or any other roadblocks that limit your game. Anyone can fight anyone, anywhere as long as they are willing to face the consequences - in the form of Darkfall?s alignment system. Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in this statement? It definitely contradicts itself... No?
Also - yeah, I have a bit of free time today. And, I'm pissed that they left out a lot of the features that truly make it a SANDBOX, as everyone keeps claiming it is. Sue me for expecting what's advertised.
Responces are in Orange. You posted alot of opinions, falsehoods, or misleading statments. I dont disagree that some really cool features did not make it in though.
It isn't false advertisement because information on these features being removed is readily available to anyone that has done the minimum amount of research. It's stated in several interviews what was removed and why. In dev journals, in Dev posts on the official forums etc etc etc. As long as the information is available it isn't false advertisement. AoC managed to avoid this by posting DX10 wasn't going to be in like 1 day before launch. Aventurines info about what has been removed has been available for a very long time lol, some of it for years.
If it was removed, why is it still on the site?
People shouldn't have to hunt and peck through all developer journals and dev posts in a forum to find out that the features listed on the OFFICIAL site of the game have been removed.
I can't see how anyone can logically think this is acceptable. Your whole defense is that someone should read every piece of information on the game EXCEPT the OFFICIAL SITE? How does that make any sense?
It doesn't make any sense. But the religous fanbois have run out of excuses.
GrayGhost79 said that features mentioned by the OP were removed over a year ago, yet one of the most recent interviews end last year Tasos kept mentioning them and bragging about it.
But hey.... I already said it in another post. The average short term memory of a fanboi is comparable to a Butterfly.
What is it with mmo fans and 'promises?' I'm not defending Darkfall, its a mess, but no one at Aventurine or any other game company has 'promised' you anything. They laid out a set of features they intended to include. Some made it, some didn't, but nothing was promised. Welcome to software development, or prety much any creative endeavor in the history of man. Jeez, stop using the word 'promise,' it makes you all sound so utterly clueless about the way the world works.
When they said back in 08 december i imagine tasos claimed the game was launch ready and complete...that to me shows a little form of a promise.
Lol, then you need to revisit your definition, and stop being so guilible that you actually believe what comes out of the mouth of a public relations guy like Tasos.
If Tasos is in public relations then he should find a diferent job. You don't see me dismanteling bombs do you?
That may be, but its not really relevant to what was being discussed.
My point was that if you believe anything that a PR person says, you are an idiot. A PR person's job is bullshit people and convince them to buy their product regardless of its quality or necessity.
All of these people claiming that Tasos 'promised' this feature and Aventurine 'promised' that feature really need to wake up.
What is it with mmo fans and 'promises?' I'm not defending Darkfall, its a mess, but no one at Aventurine or any other game company has 'promised' you anything. They laid out a set of features they intended to include. Some made it, some didn't, but nothing was promised. Welcome to software development, or prety much any creative endeavor in the history of man. Jeez, stop using the word 'promise,' it makes you all sound so utterly clueless about the way the world works.
When they said back in 08 december i imagine tasos claimed the game was launch ready and complete...that to me shows a little form of a promise.
Lol, then you need to revisit your definition, and stop being so guilible that you actually believe what comes out of the mouth of a public relations guy like Tasos.
If Tasos is in public relations then he should find a diferent job. You don't see me dismanteling bombs do you?
That may be, but its not really relevant to what was being discussed.
My point was that if you believe anything that a PR person says, you are an idiot. A PR person's job is bullshit people and convince them to buy their product regardless of its quality or necessity.
All of these people claiming that Tasos 'promised' this feature and Aventurine 'promised' that feature really need to wake up.
I don't believe PR people, and I already knew the website was bullshit, but the fact remains that there are probably quite a few people who paid money for this game after reading the feature list, and will log in or explore the forums further to find out that they aren't getting what they paid for.
It's one thing for a fan site to have inaccurate information, but for the main web site not to be updated on the supposed Release Date... How can they even call that a release?
What is it with mmo fans and 'promises?' I'm not defending Darkfall, its a mess, but no one at Aventurine or any other game company has 'promised' you anything. They laid out a set of features they intended to include. Some made it, some didn't, but nothing was promised. Welcome to software development, or prety much any creative endeavor in the history of man. Jeez, stop using the word 'promise,' it makes you all sound so utterly clueless about the way the world works.
When they said back in 08 december i imagine tasos claimed the game was launch ready and complete...that to me shows a little form of a promise.
Lol, then you need to revisit your definition, and stop being so guilible that you actually believe what comes out of the mouth of a public relations guy like Tasos.
If Tasos is in public relations then he should find a diferent job. You don't see me dismanteling bombs do you?
That may be, but its not really relevant to what was being discussed.
My point was that if you believe anything that a PR person says, you are an idiot. A PR person's job is bullshit people and convince them to buy their product regardless of its quality or necessity.
All of these people claiming that Tasos 'promised' this feature and Aventurine 'promised' that feature really need to wake up.
I don't believe PR people, and I already knew the website was bullshit, but the fact remains that there are probably quite a few people who paid money for this game after reading the feature list, and will log in or explore the forums further to find out that they aren't getting what they paid for.
It's one thing for a fan site to have inaccurate information, but for the main web site not to be updated on the supposed Release Date... How can they even call that a release?
I agree with you man, their website smacks of amateurism, as does their billing system and the general lack of polish surrounding their product.
That said, no one is forced to hand over their money. I paid them with the expectation that it would probably be a waste of fifty bucks, and so far I was right. The difference between me and all the folks whining and complaining that they were lied to is that I expected it, and it was an acceptable risk of a small amount of money for possibly finding some long-term enjoyment.
The phrase 'buyer beware' applies here. People need to accept responsibility for their actions (even though I know this isn't currently in vogue, particularly in America).
People that bought Darkfall with the expectation that it would be a smooth launch and would feature everything Tasos ever talked about are fricking idiots, end of story. Hopefully they will wise up and learn from their mistake. Don't trust game developers; play a demo and make up your own mind, or suffer the consequences.
There are no safe zones in Darkfall unless the players themselves create them or seek them out. There is no area where a player cannot be attacked by another player. Towers are in game and are safe zones. Towers can not keep you from getting killed and looted. If your at war with another clan, they can kill you in town without fear of towers. Secondly enough people can take you down while naked so that someone else can loot you. So you are incorrect there are no safe zones. They are safer than being out in the wild, but not by much. Towers deter combat. You shouldn't have to be at war with another clan in order to be attackable. I realize that you can exploit the tower's weaknesses to still kill people, but people are HUDDLING AROUND THESE TOWERS BECAUSE OF THEIR PROTECTION. This is a safe zone man, you're kidding yourself if you try to claim otherwise. They deter it but do no prevent it, hence why it is not a safe zone. For it to be a safe zone you have to be safe. In starter towns you are never completely safe.
Hence promose kept. I don?t like PvP, why should I even consider trying out Darkfall?
If you give it a chance, you?ll discover that Darkfall is an extremely well rounded game. For example, there?s as much effort going into the quest engine and the crafting process, as there is going into the combat design. Darkfall features the ultimate player based economy, more useful trade skills than any other released MMORPG to date, advanced NPC and monster AI, and a quest engine constantly creating new and challenging content. Furthermore, the game world is huge; you could move to a remote area with your friends and try to create a safe haven for other like-minded players. It's been said many times that pvp is the main focus of darkfall and everything else is wow carebear fluff. The crafting system is boring, the quest system sucks, and the ai is ridiculous.
Enchanting in DFO is one of the most amazing craft systems I have come across in MMORPG's. You have to discover the reciepe's, there is no NPC to sale them to you or teach them to you. It's a lot of trial and error. The ingredients come from skinning the corpse of mobs. Very nice system if you ask me and a lot of fun. The rest of the crafting system is like UO though, simple and to the point. Add in the Enchanting system though and man is it sweet.
AI in DFO is far more challenging than the AI of other MMO's. You try and box mobs in, they jump over you and get out, they go after the weakest target, they switch if that target is unreachable. Etc. AI in DFO isn't ridiculous, unless you meant ridiculously fun. This of course is a matter of opinion. Unlike you I will state it as such. Let's be honest here... The mobs run around in circles. We all know that. They run around in circles and it becomes an exercise of trying to keep them on your screen, or just standing still and waiting for them to stop running, or trying to pick them off with an arrow. I shouldn't need a 2000dpi mouse to keep the mobs targeted. I have no problem playing FPS games like Quake or CS, so I shouldn't be having trouble targeting in this game. Also, I'm glad to hear that Enchanting is nice. Too bad that's only one crafting skill... I haven't experienced what you have, maybe I was simply in beta longer. Mobs run when there low on health, they zigzag when fleeing to avoid arrows and spells. When in combat they cricle strafe left and right while hitting you to try and limit you hiting them. When there allies are near by and they are low they run to them, they in turn join in and the player generally has to flee. In essence your complaining the AI is to hard, thats a good thing to me. I find it fun, I want it hard. I hate this waterd down AI in other MMO's. PvE in DFO is almost as challenging as PvP which is a great thing to many of us. As far as Enchnating being only one crafting skill, it kind of is the crafting system. The rest is there simply to support it which is a great thing. Every leather worker and smith and woodworker needs to have enchanting, otherwise it's basic weapons and armor. How are you going to handle Player Killing?
Anyone can attack anyone. In fact Darkfall encourages you to seek out and kill enemies of your race and your clan. However, it is up to each kingdom to set the rules of their borders. The different kingdoms have NPC guards that have orders given to them by the player kings and lords. You can order the guards to attack on sight. The guard ?hit list? can include clan names, individual player names, specific races, alignments, and enemies. NPC guards are in fact not in game, due to resource problems. What's gonna happen when a few thousand players log on? Oh wait... The NPC guards were out long ago, and we were told long ago they were. As for what happens when a few thousand players long on............ well, I wonder if it ever occured to you thats one of the reasons they took out the NPC guards as well as kept the world and items within a certain polygon count, as well as not allowing items to be dropped on the ground. In essence your simply getting on there case for giving a bit of forethought to the situation lol. Obviously they were out long ago. Anyone reading the forums knows this. However, they would definitely have to do some searching to find it, unless a thread relating to it happened to be on the first page. The official features list was never updated to reflect this. Most players who are looking to buy this game right now probably think it does have NPC guards. If they have to start cutting content and features because there engine can't support them, then the game is a failure at its innermost There are plenty of threads even a current Faq Stickied, and has been for sometime. If you bothered reading one of those stickies which are always on the front page then you would have found what you asked for. Again though, this is about Aventurine failing to update there main page and not breaking promises. Takes a minute to find accurate up to date info.
They cut features and content durring the development process as any other MMO has. Some things simply don't work or aren't what they hoped they would be. This isn't the game failing, this is what every MMO that has every been made has done. How do spawns work? Are they static or dynamic?
Our random spawns are dynamic. Clear out a spawn and it will not reappear in the same place. If you spend enough time killing a species, its presence in that area will thin out and eventually the species will migrate to a different area. Not sure about this one. Anyone? As of right now, some spawns seem to be static and others seem dynamic. It's to early to tell though since no one has had much time to play around with it.
What are the Prestige classes?
Prestige classes are special classes, like Paladin, Assassin, Gladiator, Enchanter etc. and it?s an optional path that you may choose for your character to follow. Prestige classes were removed from the game. We were told this a long time ago lol. Very long time ago lol. There on the back burner for now as is the Aquatic race. They may never be put in game, but this is something we have been informed of a good while back. I never heard about an Aquatic race. And who is this "we" you keep referring to? Not everyone buying this game has been following the forums for many years like you or I have. I dont care that they were removed, I didn't like them anyways. But, unless someone's been following the forums on a daily basis, they probably didn't know Prestige classes were out. Again this is about them not updating there main page, which I agree is asinine. This isn't them breaking promises though which is what you have made this whole thread about. Will there be player owned houses?
Players will be able to set up houses of various sizes and design, ranging from small cottages to huge castles and citadels. Player houses were quietly removed from the game. This is a loss as of right now. With the clan city dynamics and the fact that player houses were going to be destructable not many seem to care, even myself who was a very avid fan of Player Owned houses. Yeah... it's a bitch man. Houses were one of the main reasons I wanted to play the game, because house fighting in UO was loads of fun. Camping someones house until they log out of frustration, or hiding next to an IDOC and waiting for all hell to break loose. Player housing was one of the biggest "sandbox" features Darkfall claimed to have. It was removed and the official feature list was not updated. It was replaced by a deep clan city system, which to me is even better in some aspects. I do wish we could have had houses, but I can deal with the city building instead. It gives the game an RTS feeling to it and doesn't ruin the landscape. Again though, this is about lack of updating the main page. We are in agreement with this, this however again is not Aventurine breaking any promises. Can I design my own house?
Yes you can. Read above point. Read above point. Why so many skills and spells?
We would like to make combat, spell casting, trading, and item creation as interesting as possible. Our goal is to promote more variety in combat and allow for a large number of possible combinations to be used in offense and in defense, rather than the same predictable routines being used over and over. The bit about using the same routines over and over struck me as funny. You did read that they were talking about combat right? And no it's not the same routine. The higher you get your skills the more they do, there's a spell that can knock back enemies, one that can levitate you up to rooftops and into trees, etc etc etc. You get into a routine and stick with it, your going to fail a good bit, you change with the situation, your going to accel. You're probably right on this issue. There is still quite a bit of grind going on in Darkfall though. What types of items can I make?
You will be able to make almost every item found in the world like weapons, tools, armor, clothing, food, containers, furniture, jewelry etc. Furniture? This was with player housing I believe, and is the only place I could see this being used considering. So if the player housing is on the back burner it's pretty logical to think furniture would be as well.
What other options other than joining a Clan do I have?
You are only limited by your imagination in what else you can do, but here are some examples to get you going: You could be a lone adventurer, hunting for treasure, magical items and fame, or a mercenary selling your services to the highest bidder. You may choose to play a merchant, setting up caravans and shops in different cities, buying high quality hides from Mahirim hunters and selling them for top prices at Human cities. You could hook up with a few friends and be pirates, sailing your galleon around, plundering merchant ships, or choose to play the Dwarven blacksmith, crafting mighty magical weapons and armor, or perhaps a farmer producing rare herbs and spell reagents. The possibilities are limitless. Most of this is pretty ridiculous and obviously false, so I'm not going to elaborate. It's good you didn't elaborate, you limited how foolish you look. The caravans are still possible if you wish, they simply must be done by players. If your in a city selling your wares, you have infact setup shop. The rest is also very possible to do in DFO. Caravans and Shops as we would like them to be are not in as of yet, Caravans have been removed all together since players can do this on there own if they wish and the Universal Banks make this an uneeded thing, although it is still entirely possible for players to do so anyways lol. So again fail on your part. Caravans are pretty much worthless with universal banking. Setting up shop in a city makes sense, except you really aren't setting up shop, you're just placing a NPC vendor (i'd assume). I agree with you, caravans and shops as we would like them to be are not in as of yet. In fact... Dude, you pretty much contradict the whole first half of that paragraph - with the second half of that paragraph. I know lol. Point is the way we want them to be in they aren't, but they are still possible for us to do. Basicaly I was pointing out the whole debate here is moot since we can do them without a system in place. How will trading work?
We have developed a pretty sophisticated trading system that brings buyers and sellers together easily, and it will work in, but also out of the game. There will be more on this at a later date. Release is here and I've yet to see anything more than a basic crafting system. When is this later date? Expansion two years down the road?
Can I have pets or NPC hirelings in Darkfall?
You can have pets and NPC hirelings in Darkfall, ranging from tamed animals and monsters, to summoned skeletons, charmed animals and monsters, hired NPC merchants, hired NPC guards, etc. 100% False. Aye, this is False and we were told a year or more ago that none of that would be in game. You had a very very long time to prepare for these not being in game. It is your own fault if you were still expecting them.
Head over to darkfall.com like any random dude coming to this site and clicking the darkfall banner would do, and show me where I can find that information? Again this is about Aventurine failing at updating there main page, which again we all agree is asinine. This isn't about them breaking promises though. If you go on the forums, there's a sticky faq that has more current information. It takes a little research to get the correct faq, but it is still available. The problem here is not that Aventurine has broke any promises, but they failed to update there main page. If you want, make a thread about that and not another false Aventurine lied thread lol. What can my NPC hirelings do?
NPC hirelings can follow you around and fight with you, they can carry your loot, they can perform skills and spells to aid you, etc. NPC hirelings can do pretty much everything that player friends can do. In addition, NPC hirelings can be given advanced orders such as patrolling your city, looking for enemies, criminals, and thieves. They can be a vendor in your shop that you have set up, they can mine for minerals in a mine, they can go out into the forest and chop wood for you, or stand on the banks of a river fishing for you all day. Obviously, all false. Too bad they didn't implement this or so many ppl might not be macroing. Again this was removed more than a year ago. Sorry that you are just finding out what many of us have no for a very long time lol.
It's a good thing I've known about all of this stuff for years... What was your forum join date? 2008, I didn't join until I actually thought the game looked ready for launch. Long time follower, just realistic lol. Indy dev team, big dreams, small budget. I joined when I felt it was time to join. Looks like I am a better judge than many others lol. Will there be a community staff?
Yes, there are plans for community staff that will be in place for the game launch and it will be selected for the most part from the Darkfall Community Volunteers. The role of the community staff will be to provide customer support and in-game assistance. Again, it's launch time. Where's this community staff? Many have been standing around in the world of Agon observing, you know the bugs and the sync issue that everyones complaining about. Seen a few myself. They have the Shield over there head that says Admin on it. You may have missed it. Admins != comunity staff man. Yep. Thats the best we got so far. I am not saying there great, I am simply saying they are there. Even Brannoc was in game able to do more than a regular player. So yes they are there lol. How often can we expect announcements and updates to the site?
We will have regular news updates, screenshots, announcements, FAQ updates, downloads, and progress reports on the official Darkfall site. This is on the site that still displays a beta signup.
Will there be a public beta test?
There will be a public beta test. Fail. I was in Beta, as many of my clan mates, as well as many others I knew. So in your own words here. You FAIL I was in beta too. It wasn't an open beta. It was a closed, invite only beta. Not saying everyone was in, it was a public beta. The public was let in, just limited on how many. Reread the above, it wasn't saying open to all, or even open beta. Simply Public beta. While many wanted to have an open beta that allowed everyone in, as you can see from the limited release that wasn't possible or ever intended which is probably why Aventurine never stated they would let everyone in for Beta. A lot of you will begin crying that the site isn't updated and everyone knows that and should have been following the forums. Guys, most people won't check the forums before buying the game. Not everyone is as hardcore as you are. The fact is that this is the OFFICIAL site. If a site like mmorpg.com wanted to know what was up with some random MMO, where do you think they'd go to get a list of features and development status? Darkfall has not lived up to its promises. Your complaining about the Faq not being updated. Many have complained and agreed with thos that do complain about this. The information is out there, people have to research it like those that know have. Personally I research any game I intend to play which is how I came across all the information I have which you seem to lack. I agree with you, people should be doing their research, but that doesn't excuse a blunder like this from a suppsoedly professional game release. Wasn't it just two years ago that we were gloating about Darkfall's immense funding from Aventurine? They had a large amount of money, but compaire that to other companies. They spent around 10mil in development at the time of that statement and recieved a 20mil European convertable bond loan not long after. So yes, they had a large budget but no where near what other gaming companies have.
And again, you have proven what many of us have said time and time again, they need to update there main site................. this hasn't proved the broke any promises as you have stated they have. It has proven what pretty much everyone here and on the DFO official forums have agreed with. They need to update the Faq and there main site. *edit* Darkfall places no restrictions on player interaction, so there are no developer imposed safe zones, no realms, factions, PvP zones, or any other roadblocks that limit your game. Anyone can fight anyone, anywhere as long as they are willing to face the consequences - in the form of Darkfall?s alignment system. Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in this statement? It definitely contradicts itself... There are no safe zones, try playing the game and you will find this out. They are safer than other areas, but they are not completely safe lol. And the rest is true, you can fight anyone you want anywhere and at any time. My statements and yours simply show the Difference between someone who hasn't done any research on the game and hasn't played the game vs. someone who has done plenty of research on the game and has played the game. I've played the game, and I wasn't referring to safe zones. I was referring to their statement that there are "no factions" and "no restrictions on player interaction", when they've OBVIOUSLY released the game with a race-based faction system that restricts players from attacking their same race and rewards them for attacking "enemy" races. Then you need to reread, "it says that limit your game" it does not say they aren't there. It says that they don't keep you from killing or attacking anyone. Also - yeah, I have a bit of free time today. And, I'm pissed that they left out a lot of the features that truly make it a SANDBOX, as everyone keeps claiming it is. Sue me for expecting what's advertised. There is no fault in expecting whats advertised, but expecting whats been advertised many years ago and has since changed and has been stated as changed in numerous readily available places is a fault but not Aventurines. Yes, we all agree there website needs to be updated. We all agree on this, every last one of us. Haters and fans. The information however is out there if you do even the bare minimum amount of research. The fault here truly rests on your own shoulders considering I know the above and you do not. If you had done the research that so many others have, then you would know how things stand today. Aventurine has not lied, you simply have not done even the slightest amount of research.
On MMORPG.com alone there is plenty of current info which contridicts a lot of the faq. Learn to research before you buy games man. They are constantly changing things. When you first hear about it then play it usualy a lot has changed regardless of how recently you read up on it. This is a constant with any and all MMO's. Be thankfull there not Funcom who pretty much said one day before launch that DX10 was not going to be in game lol.
Another Fail post is another Fail post. Look, if your not going to research MMO's it's probably best not to play them. Faq's are regularly outdated and fast. Not only that but what is initially planned to be in is never everything that will be in. Some things get cut, others get added. It's the nature of the beast. If you truly want to limit your dissapointment from an MMO, keep up to date on it. In this case you did not and it shows.
Edited to add: I too was in beta, my forum name is GrayGhost79 there.
I like this format of discussion. Makes things easy to address
*edit for everyone else*
I'm white and orange, he's yellow. Official FAQ is green.
And the reason I say it is a fail post is because you keep saying they have lied. Plenty of information is out there stating what has been removed. They have not lied or broken any promise. What they did do was Fail utterly at keeping there main page updated. Thats it, if the other information wasn't available then yes you could say they lied or broke there promise if you wanted because we are simply left with that information as all there is. That isn't the case, so no this does not validate your point that Aventurine has failed to keep there promises since all you have managed to point out is that they Failed to keep there main page updated, which we all agree with.
So Harp on the fact they fail at updating there site. Quit trying to convence people they failed to keep there promises with the above when I can easily show your statement to be false.
As several other people have said, if they removed these features over a year ago, sometime during that year, they could not remove them from the feature list on the OFFICIAL site? This is, indeed, false advertising. The official feature list on the company website is supposed to be far more reliable than an off-the-top-of-the-head answer on some interview on a fansite. It is a blatant lie to list all these features as being in-game with no intention of launching with them.
Yes, other games have cut features before, but they never advertised those features as still being in-game on their website. What Adventurine did here would be comparable to Turbine still showing the old MEO website yet launching LOTRO. The two games have little in common, just like the game Adventurine launched has little in common with the one on their website.
Another Fail post is another Fail post. Look, if your not going to research MMO's it's probably best not to play them. Faq's are regularly outdated and fast. Not only that but what is initially planned to be in is never everything that will be in. Some things get cut, others get added. It's the nature of the beast. If you truly want to limit your dissapointment from an MMO, keep up to date on it. In this case you did not and it shows.
Edited to add: I too was in beta, my forum name is GrayGhost79 there.
No offense:
The OP has a valid point, granted he was a bit 'flamey' about it but his point is valid. It's fine that the FAQ was outdated, you're right. But when you are putting a game up for pre-order and your FRONT PAGE features that FAQ as a list of features provided in the game it better be Accurate. People should not have to research on forums to see if the features advertised on the front page of the website are accurate or not.
I've been playing online games since a good chunk of the people on this site were in diapers. No offense guys but the crap you are spewing is just defensive garbage. Adventurine should have either pulled the faq off the front page and replaced it with a true feature list or kept the faq updated. Period.
If you think Darkfall is still an OK game that's fine. But the OP is 100% correct: Adventurine screwed up by not keeping that faq updated or replacing it with an actual featurelist that matches the in game content as their feature list on the main site. The fact that they didn't and then launched a pre-order is very close to false advertisement.
Unless you and others have trouble reading, you will notice I agree they need to update the Faq and there main site in general. It's asinine for it to be so outdated. I will say again since so many have missed this...........
I agree that it's asinine that they haven't updated there Faq or main site.
The problem is the OP's point isn't Valid because he's saying AV has lied and not filled any of there promises and gives examples. While the whole time he himself knows the Faq isn't updated and Aventurine has indeed stated these features would not be in long before now. So he uses the fact that he himself knows that the Faq and main site are not updated to try and prove a point he knows is a lie. Thats what I don't agree with.
The features Aventurine has said would be in, are in fact in. No feature said to be in is not in with the exception of player houses and those are on the back burner with prestiege classes and an Aquatic race. The sad thing is even player housing is in to a degree, they modified it to be part of the clan system lol.
The features Aventurine has said would be in, are in fact in. No feature said to be in is not in with the exception of player houses and those are on the back burner with prestiege classes and an Aquatic race. The sad thing is even player housing is in to a degree, they modified it to be part of the clan system lol.
See, here's where we disagree... When you say "Aventurine has said", I equate that to what's on their official feature list. As a company, and as an entity, that, to me, defines what they "have said".
Player housing really isn't in man, we both know that. Apparently, you can't even design your city, it's just a pre-designed plot that you spend money to build on.
The features Aventurine has said would be in, are in fact in. No feature said to be in is not in with the exception of player houses and those are on the back burner with prestiege classes and an Aquatic race. The sad thing is even player housing is in to a degree, they modified it to be part of the clan system lol.
See, here's where we disagree... When you say "Aventurine has said", I equate that to what's on their official feature list. As a company, and as an entity, that, to me, defines what they "have said".
Player housing really isn't in man, we both know that. Apparently, you can't even design your city, it's just a pre-designed plot that you spend money to build on.
See where you lost this whole thing at was when you said you knew about the correct information and knew that these things have been stated to be out already. When I say Aventurine has said I am reffering to the interviews, Dev journals and posts on the official forums by the Devs which you have admitted to reading.
You and I agree the Web site needs to be updated, you have unwittingly admitted to knowing about the other information, which negates your whole Aventurine Lied to me thread. Live with it and be more careful in your debates in the future. You can not admit to reading something officialy posted by Aventurine, then say it doesn't mean antyhing even though it is more recent......................... Point is, you've proved what many of us already knew and agreed on. The Faw needs an update because me and you and many others have seen the information from Aventurine that contradicts it ourselves. Now deny that lol. Good luck though.
If you wish to start a thread about how Aventurines main page and Faq needs an update I won't disagree or bother it. But what you attempted to do here just begged for a response.
Yes, Aventurine needs to update there Faq and main page.
No, Aventurine hasn't lied about the features in game, as you yourself have admitted to reading the information they have posted about it being cut.
Aventurine really dropped the ball on this release, at least from what I've read. I will say I agree with you, Ghost. I feel that if you're going to release a game, and charge for it...The website sponsoring that game "should" be updated with the game's current features. There's just absolutely no excuse for Aventurine doing what they did. I really doubt that many people pre-ordered Darkfall thinking that they'd receive a game with the FAQ's promised features...But it's still ethically wrong.
I feel an open beta should have been done before this shoddy release...Hell, ask for donations. The last thing Aventurine should have done was gone back on their word of "no pre-orders, we'll do an open-beta"...But whatever, I've always said it, it's their game...They can fuck it up if they want.
I personally think Darkfall will bomb in the end and prove itself to be nothing more than most F2P MMOs...I could be wrong, but I won't stupidly find out by handing them 50 bucks.
------------------------------- It's honestly like everyone logs onto WoW, and games like WoW, just to masturbate. Everyone plays by themselves, and when they don't, they get what they want and get off. ------------------------------- Originally posted by atziluth... Ah yes when the unreasonable are faced with reason they must resort to personal attacks...When you are ready to move up from the kids table you can talk with the grown ups.
It was said once before, but if you don't take pride in your own web-site (which is the face of your company), it says a lot about Aventurine's State of the Game and business practices... and level of compentency!
The fact is, if they cant update a website, what makes you think they can update code with any reasonable amount of skill? Not being able to delete lines of html to update their website before launch, to coincide with what is currently available, is epic fail.
Grayghost you really are just making no sense. You are trying to defend these guys anyway you can. Do you really think your crusade is worth it? There isn't anything right about what they are doing. I have just been reading and laughin over your responses to Gamer. You are basically saying that all they really needed to do was release a barren landscape with no depth to it and let us all whack eachother right? And you would willingly hand your money over to someone who did that? Well if thats the case you shuold have spoke up. I could have created something better than this with Oblivion's contrsuction set, and sold it to everyone!
Face it these guys screwed up. They left everything out that made this a good game and a true sandbox. While I feel that we should wait it out and see where were at in a month. But there is not point in defending these guys when they said they were going to deliver something, and failed miserably......
Originally posted by GrayGhost79 The problem is the OP's point isn't Valid because he's saying AV has lied and not filled any of there promises and gives examples. While the whole time he himself knows the Faq isn't updated and Aventurine has indeed stated these features would not be in long before now. So he uses the fact that he himself knows that the Faq and main site are not updated to try and prove a point he knows is a lie. Thats what I don't agree with.
The features Aventurine has said would be in, are in fact in. No feature said to be in is not in with the exception of player houses and those are on the back burner with prestiege classes and an Aquatic race. The sad thing is even player housing is in to a degree, they modified it to be part of the clan system lol.
Well, they may not have "lied," per say, but they could be accused of misleading folks by not updating the faq. And yes, I know people should do more investigation on a game than simply reading the faq...but then companies should realy not be trying to mislead folks either.
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The difference is that when I happened upon one of those other MMOs while browsing this site, and then went to their features list and bought the game, I actually saw all of those features in game.
As it stands, anyone who heads to darkfall's main site, reads the features, then orders the game, will be buying something that's different than was advertised to them.
Then it would be false advertisement.That could mean massive law suites if people dont get there money back.
It isn't false advertisement because information on these features being removed is readily available to anyone that has done the minimum amount of research. It's stated in several interviews what was removed and why. In dev journals, in Dev posts on the official forums etc etc etc. As long as the information is available it isn't false advertisement. AoC managed to avoid this by posting DX10 wasn't going to be in like 1 day before launch. Aventurines info about what has been removed has been available for a very long time lol, some of it for years.
You can't deny what he said though. Most games that advertise features on their game box HAVE them.
Played:
EQ1, AO, WoW, AoC
Best thread ever:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2680105/thread/225957#2680105
If it was removed, why is it still on the site?
People shouldn't have to hunt and peck through all developer journals and dev posts in a forum to find out that the features listed on the OFFICIAL site of the game have been removed.
I can't see how anyone can logically think this is acceptable. Your whole defense is that someone should read every piece of information on the game EXCEPT the OFFICIAL SITE? How does that make any sense?
When they said back in 08 december i imagine tasos claimed the game was launch ready and complete...that to me shows a little form of a promise.
Lol, then you need to revisit your definition, and stop being so guilible that you actually believe what comes out of the mouth of a public relations guy like Tasos.
If Tasos is in public relations then he should find a diferent job. You don't see me dismanteling bombs do you?
No offense:
The OP has a valid point, granted he was a bit 'flamey' about it but his point is valid. It's fine that the FAQ was outdated, you're right. But when you are putting a game up for pre-order and your FRONT PAGE features that FAQ as a list of features provided in the game it better be Accurate. People should not have to research on forums to see if the features advertised on the front page of the website are accurate or not.
I've been playing online games since a good chunk of the people on this site were in diapers. No offense guys but the crap you are spewing is just defensive garbage. Adventurine should have either pulled the faq off the front page and replaced it with a true feature list or kept the faq updated. Period.
If you think Darkfall is still an OK game that's fine. But the OP is 100% correct: Adventurine screwed up by not keeping that faq updated or replacing it with an actual featurelist that matches the in game content as their feature list on the main site. The fact that they didn't and then launched a pre-order is very close to false advertisement.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
If it was removed, why is it still on the site?
People shouldn't have to hunt and peck through all developer journals and dev posts in a forum to find out that the features listed on the OFFICIAL site of the game have been removed.
I can't see how anyone can logically think this is acceptable. Your whole defense is that someone should read every piece of information on the game EXCEPT the OFFICIAL SITE? How does that make any sense?
Agreed 100%.
Played:
EQ1, AO, WoW, AoC
Best thread ever:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2680105/thread/225957#2680105
Another Fail post is another Fail post. Look, if your not going to research MMO's it's probably best not to play them. Faq's are regularly outdated and fast. Not only that but what is initially planned to be in is never everything that will be in. Some things get cut, others get added. It's the nature of the beast. If you truly want to limit your dissapointment from an MMO, keep up to date on it. In this case you did not and it shows.
Edited to add: I too was in beta, my forum name is GrayGhost79 there.
I like this format of discussion. Makes things easy to address
*edit for everyone else*
I'm white and orange, he's yellow. Official FAQ is green.
Responces are in Orange. You posted alot of opinions, falsehoods, or misleading statments. I dont disagree that some really cool features did not make it in though.
If it was removed, why is it still on the site?
People shouldn't have to hunt and peck through all developer journals and dev posts in a forum to find out that the features listed on the OFFICIAL site of the game have been removed.
I can't see how anyone can logically think this is acceptable. Your whole defense is that someone should read every piece of information on the game EXCEPT the OFFICIAL SITE? How does that make any sense?
It doesn't make any sense. But the religous fanbois have run out of excuses.
GrayGhost79 said that features mentioned by the OP were removed over a year ago, yet one of the most recent interviews end last year Tasos kept mentioning them and bragging about it.
But hey.... I already said it in another post. The average short term memory of a fanboi is comparable to a Butterfly.
Outdated.
When they said back in 08 december i imagine tasos claimed the game was launch ready and complete...that to me shows a little form of a promise.
Lol, then you need to revisit your definition, and stop being so guilible that you actually believe what comes out of the mouth of a public relations guy like Tasos.
If Tasos is in public relations then he should find a diferent job. You don't see me dismanteling bombs do you?
That may be, but its not really relevant to what was being discussed.
My point was that if you believe anything that a PR person says, you are an idiot. A PR person's job is bullshit people and convince them to buy their product regardless of its quality or necessity.
All of these people claiming that Tasos 'promised' this feature and Aventurine 'promised' that feature really need to wake up.
how can you have no problems targetting in Quake and CS, but DO have problems targetting in DF?
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Corpus Callosum
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When they said back in 08 december i imagine tasos claimed the game was launch ready and complete...that to me shows a little form of a promise.
Lol, then you need to revisit your definition, and stop being so guilible that you actually believe what comes out of the mouth of a public relations guy like Tasos.
If Tasos is in public relations then he should find a diferent job. You don't see me dismanteling bombs do you?
That may be, but its not really relevant to what was being discussed.
My point was that if you believe anything that a PR person says, you are an idiot. A PR person's job is bullshit people and convince them to buy their product regardless of its quality or necessity.
All of these people claiming that Tasos 'promised' this feature and Aventurine 'promised' that feature really need to wake up.
I don't believe PR people, and I already knew the website was bullshit, but the fact remains that there are probably quite a few people who paid money for this game after reading the feature list, and will log in or explore the forums further to find out that they aren't getting what they paid for.
It's one thing for a fan site to have inaccurate information, but for the main web site not to be updated on the supposed Release Date... How can they even call that a release?
When they said back in 08 december i imagine tasos claimed the game was launch ready and complete...that to me shows a little form of a promise.
Lol, then you need to revisit your definition, and stop being so guilible that you actually believe what comes out of the mouth of a public relations guy like Tasos.
If Tasos is in public relations then he should find a diferent job. You don't see me dismanteling bombs do you?
That may be, but its not really relevant to what was being discussed.
My point was that if you believe anything that a PR person says, you are an idiot. A PR person's job is bullshit people and convince them to buy their product regardless of its quality or necessity.
All of these people claiming that Tasos 'promised' this feature and Aventurine 'promised' that feature really need to wake up.
I don't believe PR people, and I already knew the website was bullshit, but the fact remains that there are probably quite a few people who paid money for this game after reading the feature list, and will log in or explore the forums further to find out that they aren't getting what they paid for.
It's one thing for a fan site to have inaccurate information, but for the main web site not to be updated on the supposed Release Date... How can they even call that a release?
I agree with you man, their website smacks of amateurism, as does their billing system and the general lack of polish surrounding their product.
That said, no one is forced to hand over their money. I paid them with the expectation that it would probably be a waste of fifty bucks, and so far I was right. The difference between me and all the folks whining and complaining that they were lied to is that I expected it, and it was an acceptable risk of a small amount of money for possibly finding some long-term enjoyment.
The phrase 'buyer beware' applies here. People need to accept responsibility for their actions (even though I know this isn't currently in vogue, particularly in America).
People that bought Darkfall with the expectation that it would be a smooth launch and would feature everything Tasos ever talked about are fricking idiots, end of story. Hopefully they will wise up and learn from their mistake. Don't trust game developers; play a demo and make up your own mind, or suffer the consequences.
Another Fail post is another Fail post. Look, if your not going to research MMO's it's probably best not to play them. Faq's are regularly outdated and fast. Not only that but what is initially planned to be in is never everything that will be in. Some things get cut, others get added. It's the nature of the beast. If you truly want to limit your dissapointment from an MMO, keep up to date on it. In this case you did not and it shows.
Edited to add: I too was in beta, my forum name is GrayGhost79 there.
I like this format of discussion. Makes things easy to address
*edit for everyone else*
I'm white and orange, he's yellow. Official FAQ is green.
And the reason I say it is a fail post is because you keep saying they have lied. Plenty of information is out there stating what has been removed. They have not lied or broken any promise. What they did do was Fail utterly at keeping there main page updated. Thats it, if the other information wasn't available then yes you could say they lied or broke there promise if you wanted because we are simply left with that information as all there is. That isn't the case, so no this does not validate your point that Aventurine has failed to keep there promises since all you have managed to point out is that they Failed to keep there main page updated, which we all agree with.
So Harp on the fact they fail at updating there site. Quit trying to convence people they failed to keep there promises with the above when I can easily show your statement to be false.
As several other people have said, if they removed these features over a year ago, sometime during that year, they could not remove them from the feature list on the OFFICIAL site? This is, indeed, false advertising. The official feature list on the company website is supposed to be far more reliable than an off-the-top-of-the-head answer on some interview on a fansite. It is a blatant lie to list all these features as being in-game with no intention of launching with them.
Yes, other games have cut features before, but they never advertised those features as still being in-game on their website. What Adventurine did here would be comparable to Turbine still showing the old MEO website yet launching LOTRO. The two games have little in common, just like the game Adventurine launched has little in common with the one on their website.
No offense:
The OP has a valid point, granted he was a bit 'flamey' about it but his point is valid. It's fine that the FAQ was outdated, you're right. But when you are putting a game up for pre-order and your FRONT PAGE features that FAQ as a list of features provided in the game it better be Accurate. People should not have to research on forums to see if the features advertised on the front page of the website are accurate or not.
I've been playing online games since a good chunk of the people on this site were in diapers. No offense guys but the crap you are spewing is just defensive garbage. Adventurine should have either pulled the faq off the front page and replaced it with a true feature list or kept the faq updated. Period.
If you think Darkfall is still an OK game that's fine. But the OP is 100% correct: Adventurine screwed up by not keeping that faq updated or replacing it with an actual featurelist that matches the in game content as their feature list on the main site. The fact that they didn't and then launched a pre-order is very close to false advertisement.
Unless you and others have trouble reading, you will notice I agree they need to update the Faq and there main site in general. It's asinine for it to be so outdated. I will say again since so many have missed this...........
I agree that it's asinine that they haven't updated there Faq or main site.
The problem is the OP's point isn't Valid because he's saying AV has lied and not filled any of there promises and gives examples. While the whole time he himself knows the Faq isn't updated and Aventurine has indeed stated these features would not be in long before now. So he uses the fact that he himself knows that the Faq and main site are not updated to try and prove a point he knows is a lie. Thats what I don't agree with.
The features Aventurine has said would be in, are in fact in. No feature said to be in is not in with the exception of player houses and those are on the back burner with prestiege classes and an Aquatic race. The sad thing is even player housing is in to a degree, they modified it to be part of the clan system lol.
This thread brings up a great point. If enough people wanted to do so this sort of false or out-dated advertising could result in a class action suit.
This is actually WORSE than what Funcom did.
Tecmo Bowl.
See, here's where we disagree... When you say "Aventurine has said", I equate that to what's on their official feature list. As a company, and as an entity, that, to me, defines what they "have said".
Player housing really isn't in man, we both know that. Apparently, you can't even design your city, it's just a pre-designed plot that you spend money to build on.
See, here's where we disagree... When you say "Aventurine has said", I equate that to what's on their official feature list. As a company, and as an entity, that, to me, defines what they "have said".
Player housing really isn't in man, we both know that. Apparently, you can't even design your city, it's just a pre-designed plot that you spend money to build on.
See where you lost this whole thing at was when you said you knew about the correct information and knew that these things have been stated to be out already. When I say Aventurine has said I am reffering to the interviews, Dev journals and posts on the official forums by the Devs which you have admitted to reading.
You and I agree the Web site needs to be updated, you have unwittingly admitted to knowing about the other information, which negates your whole Aventurine Lied to me thread. Live with it and be more careful in your debates in the future. You can not admit to reading something officialy posted by Aventurine, then say it doesn't mean antyhing even though it is more recent......................... Point is, you've proved what many of us already knew and agreed on. The Faw needs an update because me and you and many others have seen the information from Aventurine that contradicts it ourselves. Now deny that lol. Good luck though.
If you wish to start a thread about how Aventurines main page and Faq needs an update I won't disagree or bother it. But what you attempted to do here just begged for a response.
Yes, Aventurine needs to update there Faq and main page.
No, Aventurine hasn't lied about the features in game, as you yourself have admitted to reading the information they have posted about it being cut.
So good luck with w/e your trying to do here lol.
Yeah...I'm just so glad I didn't pre-order.
Aventurine really dropped the ball on this release, at least from what I've read. I will say I agree with you, Ghost. I feel that if you're going to release a game, and charge for it...The website sponsoring that game "should" be updated with the game's current features. There's just absolutely no excuse for Aventurine doing what they did. I really doubt that many people pre-ordered Darkfall thinking that they'd receive a game with the FAQ's promised features...But it's still ethically wrong.
I feel an open beta should have been done before this shoddy release...Hell, ask for donations. The last thing Aventurine should have done was gone back on their word of "no pre-orders, we'll do an open-beta"...But whatever, I've always said it, it's their game...They can fuck it up if they want.
I personally think Darkfall will bomb in the end and prove itself to be nothing more than most F2P MMOs...I could be wrong, but I won't stupidly find out by handing them 50 bucks.
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It's honestly like everyone logs onto WoW, and games like WoW, just to masturbate. Everyone plays by themselves, and when they don't, they get what they want and get off.
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Originally posted by atziluth...
Ah yes when the unreasonable are faced with reason they must resort to personal attacks...When you are ready to move up from the kids table you can talk with the grown ups.
It was said once before, but if you don't take pride in your own web-site (which is the face of your company), it says a lot about Aventurine's State of the Game and business practices... and level of compentency!
Not to mention, it is very misleading..!
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The fact is, if they cant update a website, what makes you think they can update code with any reasonable amount of skill? Not being able to delete lines of html to update their website before launch, to coincide with what is currently available, is epic fail.
Grayghost you really are just making no sense. You are trying to defend these guys anyway you can. Do you really think your crusade is worth it? There isn't anything right about what they are doing. I have just been reading and laughin over your responses to Gamer. You are basically saying that all they really needed to do was release a barren landscape with no depth to it and let us all whack eachother right? And you would willingly hand your money over to someone who did that? Well if thats the case you shuold have spoke up. I could have created something better than this with Oblivion's contrsuction set, and sold it to everyone!
Face it these guys screwed up. They left everything out that made this a good game and a true sandbox. While I feel that we should wait it out and see where were at in a month. But there is not point in defending these guys when they said they were going to deliver something, and failed miserably......
Well, they may not have "lied," per say, but they could be accused of misleading folks by not updating the faq. And yes, I know people should do more investigation on a game than simply reading the faq...but then companies should realy not be trying to mislead folks either.
It's a proven historical fact that beer saved humankind.