UDL made it into DFO? Did I read that correctly? Heh...have fun fighting the haxx0rz elite. They still using the D&D rip as their theme, the Myrkul thing? sorry...off topic
I do agree with you, and now I've seen the game actually being played first hand (I made a review type comment in the best game in 10 years thread) , I do wonder where it will go, I think the cheats are by far its biggest potential problem outside the sheer idiocy of the customer care/support infrastructure.
Having said that, it depends where they go with it. The sprint/stam free running/speedhack ones are annoying to play against I should imagine, but the risk of report will keep it to use outside of PvP, the teleport one is worse for the nature of the game meaning people can travel risk free throughout the world, defeating the 'dangerous world free loot' ethos.
But when they get auto aim hacks, , or assitance hacks to make sure a group are all targetting the same mob/player. thats when it will become a game altering issue.
I don't see where the solution will come from either.
about the warp hack. you dont need to use it to travel risk free. Banks are universal which already allows players to stash their stuff and go naked to the next bank and retrieve their stuff. The dangerous free loot ethos was destroyed the moment they implimented that.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
about the warp hack. you dont need to use it to travel risk free. Banks are universal which already allows players to stash their stuff and go naked to the next bank and retrieve their stuff. The dangerous free loot ethos was destroyed the moment they implimented that.
Off-topic, but I agree - Universal bank = lame.
----- Its funny how people who hate Darkfall spend so much time talking about Darkfall.
I guess being a fat troll means having no friends, no girls, and nothing better to do than spew hate on internet forums..
UDL made it into DFO? Did I read that correctly? Heh...have fun fighting the haxx0rz elite. They still using the D&D rip as their theme, the Myrkul thing? sorry...off topic
I dunno if they are in the game yet, I know some were in beta...
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
The only "fix" at this point would be for Aventurine to use a "Warden" type program. And just reading the EULA, they can if they choose to.
As far as Aventurine re-writing the client and server code? Yeah, that's going to happen.
And if one more person compare's Darkfall to any other game as far as, " Well, all games are hacked, this game is that, that game had a bad launch, etc...", I swear, I'm going to reach through and choke the life out of you.
Darkfall has been in development for MANY years, and it will be/needs to be judged entirely on it's own merit.
If the developers haven't been paying attention to the industry, and it seems they haven't been, then it isn't anyones fault but their own.
I know your frusteration as well, yeah sure, all games are hacked, the differance is those other games knew not to put so much on the client, AND they had tools in place from the start to combat it so hacking never got out of hand and was easily controllable/detectable.
Darkfail has no such controls.
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
First, please prove your assertion regarding the amount of client-side info in DFO, or admit that you are simply making an unevidenced assertion.
and
Second, please prove your assertion that there is, in fact, no "Warden" type system in DFO, or admit that you are simply making an unevidenced assertion.
The rest are, admittedly you own opinion s and prognostications, so I suppose you are entitled...
The fact that speedhacks and teleport hacks even exist is proof that movement is calculated clientside. These are the easiest hacks in the world to prevent. Competent devs would have the server trump the client any time the two disagree on location of the character. Sure, this can lead to rubber-banding in lag, as the client shows you run ahead, then the server corrects the client and you pop back, but this is a small price to pay to have the game immune to speed and port hacks.
Incidentally, Funcom and Mythic made the same noob mistakes. Both AoC and WAR have teleport and speedhacks too.
The differance with WAR and AoC though is there are already tools in place to help fight these hacks and get ppl banned, Darkfail has no such tools other than catching people in the act...
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
The differance with WAR and AoC though is there are already tools in place to help fight these hacks and get ppl banned, Darkfail has no such tools other than catching people in the act...
True, but a smarter move would have been to code all location determination server side, rendering such hack impossible.
HhusskCity of Heroes CorrespondentMemberPosts: 219
As has been stated before, there will always be hacks and cheats, or attempts thereof.
What most of you are failing to understand is that Darkfall can evolve. It's core game mechanics are what is drawing players to the game. Any hack, or cheat, has to deal with the game as it evolves...and that usually means the mod, hack, or cheat also has to be upgraded.
What Darkfall can do and already allows is simple.
Aggressively cancel accounts that cheat.
Continue to allow players to kill other players freely.
Continue updating/upgrading/evolving the game.
I would also submit that keeping the subscription levels low and slowly trickling in is a good way to control the population. Personally, I like the idea. If you get banned, you can't just create another account and jump back in. So NOW, you have to seriously think about how important your account is before you start screwing around with the game code.
----------------------------- Blog -Transcendent''s Tomb - Reviews, Polls, and tortured opinions from the minions of MMORPGS
HhusskCity of Heroes CorrespondentMemberPosts: 219
Originally posted by Sturmrabe
The differance with WAR and AoC though is there are already tools in place to help fight these hacks and get ppl banned, Darkfail has no such tools other than catching people in the act...
Darkfall, currently, has one tool that AoC and WAR would not dream of using. Controlled subscriptions. If you get banned/cancelled, you can't automatically create a new account.
Obviously, this is almost certain to change in the future, however, at that time, AV could have precautions and preventions in place.
----------------------------- Blog -Transcendent''s Tomb - Reviews, Polls, and tortured opinions from the minions of MMORPGS
The differance with WAR and AoC though is there are already tools in place to help fight these hacks and get ppl banned, Darkfail has no such tools other than catching people in the act...
Darkfall, currently, has one tool that AoC and WAR would not dream of using. Controlled subscriptions. If you get banned/cancelled, you can't automatically create a new account.
Obviously, this is almost certain to change in the future, however, at that time, AV could have precautions and preventions in place.
1. Warden programs are not something you can simply or easily patched in, they have to be planned for and integrated from the gate... while it IS possible, they have neither the resources, nor -apperently- the knowhow, but definitely not the resources
2. "Hardcore" like to have things like 3 bot accounts anyway, so one bannage is simply not enough of a deterrent, especially if they had been at it a while and gotten away with it, hacking a new char and getting him max level post-haste is an easy work around.
3. Even if they DID get this in "later" smaller MMO clients sell for peanuts very quickly after initial release.
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
HhusskCity of Heroes CorrespondentMemberPosts: 219
Originally posted by Sturmrabe
Originally posted by Hhussk
Originally posted by Sturmrabe
The differance with WAR and AoC though is there are already tools in place to help fight these hacks and get ppl banned, Darkfail has no such tools other than catching people in the act...
Darkfall, currently, has one tool that AoC and WAR would not dream of using. Controlled subscriptions. If you get banned/cancelled, you can't automatically create a new account.
Obviously, this is almost certain to change in the future, however, at that time, AV could have precautions and preventions in place.
1. Warden programs are not something you can simply or easily patched in, they have to be planned for and integrated from the gate... while it IS possible, they have neither the resources, nor -apperently- the knowhow, but definitely not the resources
I won't get into a debate over whether you think they can implement a warden program or not. I'm not interested in speculation. All I will tell you is that I know its factually possible.
2. "Hardcore" like to have things like 3 bot accounts anyway, so one bannage is simply not enough of a deterrent, especially if they had been at it a while and gotten away with it, hacking a new char and getting him max level post-haste is an easy work around.
There are two fallacies in your argument: 1) Darkfall does not have levels, so there is no max level. 2) While subscription entries are being controlled, the hardcore player is unlikely to have 3, or even 1, bot. In the event that a person right now holds two accounts, he or she would have to be careful not to get either of them banned. This is because the likelyhood of being able to create a new account is more difficult at the moment. You'll have more leverage with your statement about "multiple accounts" when Darkfall fully opens their registration.
3. Even if they DID get this in "later" smaller MMO clients sell for peanuts very quickly after initial release.
This has no bearing, or relative importance, to the discussion. We are talking about hacks in the game.
----------------------------- Blog -Transcendent''s Tomb - Reviews, Polls, and tortured opinions from the minions of MMORPGS
The differance with WAR and AoC though is there are already tools in place to help fight these hacks and get ppl banned, Darkfail has no such tools other than catching people in the act...
Darkfall, currently, has one tool that AoC and WAR would not dream of using. Controlled subscriptions. If you get banned/cancelled, you can't automatically create a new account.
Obviously, this is almost certain to change in the future, however, at that time, AV could have precautions and preventions in place.
1. Warden programs are not something you can simply or easily patched in, they have to be planned for and integrated from the gate... while it IS possible, they have neither the resources, nor -apperently- the knowhow, but definitely not the resources
I won't get into a debate over whether you think they can implement a warden program or not. I'm not interested in speculation. All I will tell you is that I know its factually possible.
Of course you won't get into a debate, because I already said it was possible, but there is a huge difference between possible and probable, or feasible.
2. "Hardcore" like to have things like 3 bot accounts anyway, so one bannage is simply not enough of a deterrent, especially if they had been at it a while and gotten away with it, hacking a new char and getting him max level post-haste is an easy work around.
There are two fallacies in your argument: 1) Darkfall does not have levels, so there is no max level. 2) While subscription entries are being controlled, the hardcore player is unlikely to have 3, or even 1, bot. In the event that a person right now holds two accounts, he or she would have to be careful not to get either of them banned. This is because the likelyhood of being able to create a new account is more difficult at the moment. You'll have more leverage with your statement about "multiple accounts" when Darkfall fully opens their registration.
1) max level, max SKILL level... potato potahto. 2)having a fucked up release and a paid closed beta (you may not be testing the game as you once were in beta, but you are paying them to help test and upgrade their server) is not a feature, no matter how you spin it.
3. Even if they DID get this in "later" smaller MMO clients sell for peanuts very quickly after initial release.
This has no bearing, or relative importance, to the discussion. We are talking about hacks in the game.
Yes it does, going back to the previous point,that not only will it be possbile to have multiboxing that was rampant in games like UO and Shadowbane (even when SB was pay to play) but the horrible release and lack of game content/features/skills/etcetcetc will mean the cost for the client will tumble soon, meaning ease of alt accounts meaning extra protection for hackers...
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
Comments
UDL made it into DFO? Did I read that correctly? Heh...have fun fighting the haxx0rz elite. They still using the D&D rip as their theme, the Myrkul thing? sorry...off topic
about the warp hack. you dont need to use it to travel risk free. Banks are universal which already allows players to stash their stuff and go naked to the next bank and retrieve their stuff. The dangerous free loot ethos was destroyed the moment they implimented that.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Off-topic, but I agree - Universal bank = lame.
-----
Its funny how people who hate Darkfall spend so much time talking about Darkfall.
I guess being a fat troll means having no friends, no girls, and nothing better to do than spew hate on internet forums..
I dunno if they are in the game yet, I know some were in beta...
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
The only "fix" at this point would be for Aventurine to use a "Warden" type program. And just reading the EULA, they can if they choose to.
As far as Aventurine re-writing the client and server code? Yeah, that's going to happen.
And if one more person compare's Darkfall to any other game as far as, " Well, all games are hacked, this game is that, that game had a bad launch, etc...", I swear, I'm going to reach through and choke the life out of you.
Darkfall has been in development for MANY years, and it will be/needs to be judged entirely on it's own merit.
If the developers haven't been paying attention to the industry, and it seems they haven't been, then it isn't anyones fault but their own.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
Excellent point and excellent post!
I know your frusteration as well, yeah sure, all games are hacked, the differance is those other games knew not to put so much on the client, AND they had tools in place from the start to combat it so hacking never got out of hand and was easily controllable/detectable.
Darkfail has no such controls.
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
The fact that speedhacks and teleport hacks even exist is proof that movement is calculated clientside. These are the easiest hacks in the world to prevent. Competent devs would have the server trump the client any time the two disagree on location of the character. Sure, this can lead to rubber-banding in lag, as the client shows you run ahead, then the server corrects the client and you pop back, but this is a small price to pay to have the game immune to speed and port hacks.
Incidentally, Funcom and Mythic made the same noob mistakes. Both AoC and WAR have teleport and speedhacks too.
The differance with WAR and AoC though is there are already tools in place to help fight these hacks and get ppl banned, Darkfail has no such tools other than catching people in the act...
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
True, but a smarter move would have been to code all location determination server side, rendering such hack impossible.
As has been stated before, there will always be hacks and cheats, or attempts thereof.
What most of you are failing to understand is that Darkfall can evolve. It's core game mechanics are what is drawing players to the game. Any hack, or cheat, has to deal with the game as it evolves...and that usually means the mod, hack, or cheat also has to be upgraded.
What Darkfall can do and already allows is simple.
I would also submit that keeping the subscription levels low and slowly trickling in is a good way to control the population. Personally, I like the idea. If you get banned, you can't just create another account and jump back in. So NOW, you have to seriously think about how important your account is before you start screwing around with the game code.
-----------------------------
Blog -Transcendent''s Tomb - Reviews, Polls, and tortured opinions from the minions of MMORPGS
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Hhussk
Darkfall, currently, has one tool that AoC and WAR would not dream of using. Controlled subscriptions. If you get banned/cancelled, you can't automatically create a new account.
Obviously, this is almost certain to change in the future, however, at that time, AV could have precautions and preventions in place.
-----------------------------
Blog -Transcendent''s Tomb - Reviews, Polls, and tortured opinions from the minions of MMORPGS
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Hhussk
Darkfall, currently, has one tool that AoC and WAR would not dream of using. Controlled subscriptions. If you get banned/cancelled, you can't automatically create a new account.
Obviously, this is almost certain to change in the future, however, at that time, AV could have precautions and preventions in place.
1. Warden programs are not something you can simply or easily patched in, they have to be planned for and integrated from the gate... while it IS possible, they have neither the resources, nor -apperently- the knowhow, but definitely not the resources
2. "Hardcore" like to have things like 3 bot accounts anyway, so one bannage is simply not enough of a deterrent, especially if they had been at it a while and gotten away with it, hacking a new char and getting him max level post-haste is an easy work around.
3. Even if they DID get this in "later" smaller MMO clients sell for peanuts very quickly after initial release.
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
1. Warden programs are not something you can simply or easily patched in, they have to be planned for and integrated from the gate... while it IS possible, they have neither the resources, nor -apperently- the knowhow, but definitely not the resources
I won't get into a debate over whether you think they can implement a warden program or not. I'm not interested in speculation. All I will tell you is that I know its factually possible.
2. "Hardcore" like to have things like 3 bot accounts anyway, so one bannage is simply not enough of a deterrent, especially if they had been at it a while and gotten away with it, hacking a new char and getting him max level post-haste is an easy work around.
There are two fallacies in your argument: 1) Darkfall does not have levels, so there is no max level. 2) While subscription entries are being controlled, the hardcore player is unlikely to have 3, or even 1, bot. In the event that a person right now holds two accounts, he or she would have to be careful not to get either of them banned. This is because the likelyhood of being able to create a new account is more difficult at the moment. You'll have more leverage with your statement about "multiple accounts" when Darkfall fully opens their registration.
3. Even if they DID get this in "later" smaller MMO clients sell for peanuts very quickly after initial release.
This has no bearing, or relative importance, to the discussion. We are talking about hacks in the game.
-----------------------------
Blog -Transcendent''s Tomb - Reviews, Polls, and tortured opinions from the minions of MMORPGS
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Hhussk
Darkfall, currently, has one tool that AoC and WAR would not dream of using. Controlled subscriptions. If you get banned/cancelled, you can't automatically create a new account.
Obviously, this is almost certain to change in the future, however, at that time, AV could have precautions and preventions in place.
1. Warden programs are not something you can simply or easily patched in, they have to be planned for and integrated from the gate... while it IS possible, they have neither the resources, nor -apperently- the knowhow, but definitely not the resources
I won't get into a debate over whether you think they can implement a warden program or not. I'm not interested in speculation. All I will tell you is that I know its factually possible.
Of course you won't get into a debate, because I already said it was possible, but there is a huge difference between possible and probable, or feasible.
2. "Hardcore" like to have things like 3 bot accounts anyway, so one bannage is simply not enough of a deterrent, especially if they had been at it a while and gotten away with it, hacking a new char and getting him max level post-haste is an easy work around.
There are two fallacies in your argument: 1) Darkfall does not have levels, so there is no max level. 2) While subscription entries are being controlled, the hardcore player is unlikely to have 3, or even 1, bot. In the event that a person right now holds two accounts, he or she would have to be careful not to get either of them banned. This is because the likelyhood of being able to create a new account is more difficult at the moment. You'll have more leverage with your statement about "multiple accounts" when Darkfall fully opens their registration.
1) max level, max SKILL level... potato potahto. 2)having a fucked up release and a paid closed beta (you may not be testing the game as you once were in beta, but you are paying them to help test and upgrade their server) is not a feature, no matter how you spin it.
3. Even if they DID get this in "later" smaller MMO clients sell for peanuts very quickly after initial release.
This has no bearing, or relative importance, to the discussion. We are talking about hacks in the game.
Yes it does, going back to the previous point,that not only will it be possbile to have multiboxing that was rampant in games like UO and Shadowbane (even when SB was pay to play) but the horrible release and lack of game content/features/skills/etcetcetc will mean the cost for the client will tumble soon, meaning ease of alt accounts meaning extra protection for hackers...Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche