Say what? It's not your intellectual property but NCsoft's and they can do whatever they want with it. You can say you hate it or like it but that's as far as your input (or mine) goes.
my turn for "say what?"
i'm at a total loss as to how you derived whatever you did from my saying i had an ideal concept of the game in my imagination.
i am saying that i would like to imagine that they are going to deliver the game as close to my ideals as possible. that may be a pipe dream or it may happen to a degree that surprises me. i'll find out on day of release.
My point is how can you have an ideal concept of the game when it is not YOUR concept to begin with?
We both agree you can decide whether you like what you see or not and either move on or stay.
And in general a lot of people who speak of immersion mistake that for a Tolkien like world or something that is as close to it as possible, you can thank dungeons and dragons, but really true fantasy can be anything.
Immersion to me comes when the whole world an characters mesh well together and there are elements to pull you in like weather, animals running in streets and children, people of diverse ages diverse buildings and areas to explore. Everything else can be anything, the theme could be high fantasy a la Tolkien, or it could be alien fantasy, sci fi or post apocalyptic. Or a mesh of all of those, it can even be silly and campy as long as it's done well.
I've played Vanguard which is supposed to be very immersive and to a point it is, but then you cross that point and you find a dead world. I'll take a vibrant living world with silly weapons any day. Aion is not based on any existing template of fantasy it is it's own thing based on actual mythology, just like Tolkien did and many others besides.
Realism != Fantasy. Aion is a fantasy based game, which is why they have items like this. Fantasy doesn't contain real elements or your taking away from a game that is fantasy. fan⋅ta⋅sy
/?fænt?si, -zi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fan-tuh-see, -zee] Show IPA noun, plural -sies, verb, -sied, -sy⋅ing.
–noun
1. imagination, esp. when extravagant and unrestrained.
2. the forming of mental images, esp. wondrous or strange fancies; imaginative conceptualizing.
3. a mental image, esp. when unreal or fantastic; vision: a nightmare fantasy.
4. Psychology. an imagined or conjured up sequence fulfilling a psychological need; daydream.
5. a hallucination.
6. a supposition based on no solid foundation; visionary idea; illusion: dreams of Utopias and similar fantasies.
7. caprice; whim.
8. an ingenious or fanciful thought, design, or invention.
9. Also, fantasia. Literature. an imaginative or fanciful work, esp. one dealing with supernatural or unnatural events or characters: The stories of Poe are fantasies of horror.
10. Music. fantasia (def. 1). These weapons are created from imagination, even if the objects they represent are real. FOr instance, you do't see us fighting wars with carrot sticks. If these items take immersion out of your fantasy, then that's fine. But if your looking for a sense of realism, you won't find that in any fantasy.
This.
But seriously Realisim in a fantasy setting??? what are ya smoking!!. None of all the wierd things added in wow killed wow. infact people craved for these items they became very popular. I even had a rogue and whacked noobs with fish. its pure fun.
The fact is many games do add items like these for fun. It in no way kills the game. There is a huge majority who will enjoy these things. The games about people with wings. that can use magic, weapons bigger than they can phisicly carry and yet swing them like if they were feathers. Now tell me what difference does it make if they decide to add a damn fork to the mix. Its all fantasy.
Stop looking for reality where it does not exsist.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Realism != Fantasy. Aion is a fantasy based game, which is why they have items like this. Fantasy doesn't contain real elements or your taking away from a game that is fantasy. fan?ta?sy ? ?/?f
Oh yes the infamous toggle option. Other then a gore toggle, I feel very ambivalent about it. I'm all for choices and if they would decide to put one in it wouldn't change anything in my world. But what I find annoying is you start with one toggle and everytime something gets added to the game that some people don't like they yell toggle.
Originally posted by halfmoon by the way, in case anyone's interested, i believe i've realized what would be the perfect fix for the difference of opinion between players on this issue. the option to block certain skins. it would be an easy fix. for those who dislike seeing the... uh... what's a good diplomatic word... "playful" skins, just have a checkbox in the UI to say not to load certain textures but instead revert to a basic version that still fits the story. and for the good element which i can agree with that comes with having a custom skin on an otherwise well known item - that being the element of surprise (nobody knows whether they're about to get owned or not - is that a level 5 or 50 weapon?) - you still can have this with a basic, storyline-sticking-to default armor or weapon skin that would sub out the, say, carrot. or even 1 skin to sub out all items which would have to be pre-categorized as not meeting environment/storyline/"traditional" qualifications would be preferable to me...
Hey, that's my idea:P
Yes, I too think this would be the best solution for everyone, I'm gonna sugges this to certain ppl ,hopefully it'll get attention.
Hey, that's my idea:P Yes, I too think this would be the best solution for everyone, I'm gonna sugges this to certain ppl ,hopefully it'll get attention.
was it? sorry i didn't see it but i've only skimmed lately. you can have full credit if someone comes asking who thought of it first. i will be quite content to just have the option.
Originally posted by Locklain
I can't believe the stink people are raising about this. . . Just like everything else in the world, if you don't like it don't play it. It truly is very simple.
and truly that is how it will work, in the end. however you get a "meh" for saying it's so simple. aside from pre-launch hype and speculation being the norm for nearly every aspect of every game, talking things out in forums is how things get done. some forums devs look at. other times, people will spread the comments and ideas from one forum to another, which could lead to one of those forums that devs do read. eventually if it was a concern shared by enough people, they would have to take notice. i mean, listening to large population groups your player-base (or would-be players in the case of pre-launch) = $$. let's say 10%, or even 5% of players felt that this would either be a complete deal-breaker or would cause them to lose interest after a very short period of time and cancel their subscription. the amount of money they could make by implementing a low-cost, low-maintenance fix could be immense. just think of how many people are playing the KR launch and then take 5% of that and multiply by a supposed monthly cost of $10-20, adjust numbers as you think is realistic but regardless it'd be hard to turn away from that kind of cash.
as for me, i'm just hoping lyankyj turns out to have some huge pull with NCsoft or specifically Aion devs.
Yes, I too think this would be the best solution for everyone, I'm gonna sugges this to certain ppl ,hopefully it'll get attention.
was it? sorry i didn't see it but i've only skimmed lately. you can have full credit if someone comes asking who thought of it first. i will be quite content to just have the option.
Nah, you can have it, your english is better to further explain its purpose:P
I'm just glad others thought about that too and it seems there is quite a need for such options.
The problem with the toggle is that these silly weapons are SKINS, are they not? If you could toggle them off, the only way they might be able to code that is if they toggle all skins.
That is if the skin is actually on top of the original graphic if it replaces the graphic then they would have to make alternate appearances for these weapons. I don't see that ever happening.
I don't like them, but I think the toggle is an even worse idea. Some people go to a lot of trouble to get their look 'just right'. It may not be the look you like, but it's thier character. Putting on blinders and ignoring or filtering the intentional design choices is tantamount to censorship; sure, you're only censoring yourself, but the fact remains. If you don't like the fish sword, don't get one; feel free to groan to yourself if someone happens to smack you with one. Filtering out blood, sex, and profanity is one thing; that's a moral judgment call. But 'I don't want to see carrot swords, because it's silly and it's screwing up my real fantasy'? Come on.
I hate high fantasy. But this is taking it to a higher level of hate.
But it doesn't look like a serious game so, I guess whatever. I would probably have enjoyed it if I weren't so concerned about the immersion factor when I play.
Serious is a matter of perspective, I'm sure there'll be plenty of people serious about leveling up their points or defending their turf carrots in hand or not.
Originally posted by Deadman87 I hate high fantasy. But this is taking it to a higher level of hate.
But it doesn't look like a serious game so, I guess whatever. I would probably have enjoyed it if I weren't so concerned about the immersion factor when I play.
I understand this point well. I like a certain amount of "immersion:" in MMOs and like things to "make sense" and have a flow. But immersion is a total illusion anyways. You don't really think you are that person, or if your phone rings or you power disconnect, not very immersive. All MMOs are just glorified board games pretty much. The minute you turn your head away from your LCD screen or someone speaks to you, "immersion" is lost.
But this is a fantasy world where cartoons shoot fire and pull ice out of thin air, never eat or go to the bathroom and die then get up again in a few seconds unharmed. I certainly don't see why someone couldn't weild a giant fish or pair of carrots as deadly weapons in this environment given those parameters. I guess we would just have to figure out which size of vegetable is permissible to kill someone with, hehe.
Actually, since you CAN kill someone with a raw carrot in real life, the realism aspect of "No killing with vegetables" isn't totally true. I don't think there are any "serious" games based on your grading scale other than ones such as EVE or Battlefield, things were there are only humans in realistic settings. It's hard to go for "serious" when you are contemplating playing a humanoid female who has huge wings, will never age or die, and can fly anytime you wish while actually being a guy in real life.
The whole reality versus fantasy argument is silly. The fact is you can make any sword look however you want (it may not be battle worthy but will still kill you).
With that being said here are some pictures of real swords:
Hope it works.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
What wrong with adding fun items to the game, these will most likely be less powerful than the real gear. And I wouldnt mind taking a few screens with guildys wearing these.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
I hate high fantasy. But this is taking it to a higher level of hate.
But it doesn't look like a serious game so, I guess whatever. I would probably have enjoyed it if I weren't so concerned about the immersion factor when I play.
I understand this point well. I like a certain amount of "immersion:" in MMOs and like things to "make sense" and have a flow. But immersion is a total illusion anyways. You don't really think you are that person, or if your phone rings or you power disconnect, not very immersive. All MMOs are just glorified board games pretty much. The minute you turn your head away from your LCD screen or someone speaks to you, "immersion" is lost.
But this is a fantasy world where cartoons shoot fire and pull ice out of thin air, never eat or go to the bathroom and die then get up again in a few seconds unharmed. I certainly don't see why someone couldn't weild a giant fish or pair of carrots as deadly weapons in this environment given those parameters. I guess we would just have to figure out which size of vegetable is permissible to kill someone with, hehe.
Actually, since you CAN kill someone with a raw carrot in real life, the realism aspect of "No killing with vegetables" isn't totally true. I don't think there are any "serious" games based on your grading scale other than ones such as EVE or Battlefield, things were there are only humans in realistic settings. It's hard to go for "serious" when you are contemplating playing a humanoid female who has huge wings, will never age or die, and can fly anytime you wish while actually being a guy in real life.
I think you are trying to rationalize Deadman´s personal view of gaming immersion too much.
It is his opinion and what he is looking for in a MMO-RPG, I agree with him in certain degree.
See, as an example, I do prefer when MMOs have their on names and occasions for holidays than simple christmas or eastern bunnies, I do prefer and it is more immersive TO ME the Norrath´s Frostfell than the pure christmas of some korean games. (by Korean games Im not bashing Aion)
Sound silly? Maybe, but it is all related to immersion and how you feel when you play in this alternate universe.
Eve and Battlefiels are not "serious" for me especially Battlefield, but Silent Hill2 with its moral and psychological aspects is a pretty serious game for me.
Serious go far beyond the "realistic" skin in a game, a lot of "realistc" FPS games as BF are too shallow to be taken as a serious setting.
MMOs need some sense of humor as we usually play them for much more time, but sometimes somethings are too much and ruin the immersion of some players, how can we judge what everyone should enjoy as immersive in a game? An this has nothing to do with your game x real life comparison.
As you said, you like certain amount of immersion and sometimes even the most absurd setting need to be cohesive with its own laws to keep "beliveable" even in the most unbeliveable situation.
I cant judge these Aion weapons, would need to play more and know more about the game itself
I think you are trying to rationalize Deadman´s personal view of gaming immersion too much. It is his opinion and what he is looking for in a MMO-RPG, I agree with him in certain degree. See, as an example, I do prefer when MMOs have their on names and occasions for holidays than simple christmas or eastern bunnies, I do prefer and it is more immersive TO ME the Norrath´s Frostfell than the pure christmas of some korean games. (by Korean games Im not bashing Aion) Sound silly? Maybe, but it is all related to immersion and how you feel when you play in this alternate universe. Eve and Battlefiels are not "serious" for me especially Battlefield, but Silent Hill2 with its moral and psychological aspects is a pretty serious game for me. Serious go far beyond the "realistic" skin in a game, a lot of "realistc" FPS games as BF are too shallow to be taken as a serious setting. MMOs need some sense of humor as we usually play them for much more time, but sometimes somethings are too much and ruin the immersion of some players, how can we judge what everyone should enjoy as immersive in a game? An this has nothing to do with your game x real life comparison. As you said, you like certain amount of immersion and sometimes even the most absurd setting need to be cohesive with its own laws to keep "beliveable" even in the most unbeliveable situation. I cant judge these Aion weapons, would need to play more and know more about the game itself ...
I figured since this was a MMO site, and we are talking about MMOs, that when he said "serious" he's referring to serious MMOs, not single player consoles or whatever other platforms. If that's the case, then we could use single player fantasy games that are just as serious. Of these MMOs, I take it he means a certain amount of believability. Again, ship based combat is pretty believable and the fact that if you get it blown up there, you lose quite a bit of goods and that is about as "serious" as you can get. I don't know anything more serious than that in a game world other than Permadeath.
I'm don't think he specifically said he's looking for a MMO-RPG as you believe, but if that's the case, any fantasy game isn't really made for then in an MMO. Unless he's like, a strict roleplayer in something like LOTRO or SWG (which to me is "high fantasy") but again, I'll leave that up to his to clarify. I only went off of the three lines he posted, not really trying to see into it, but just going off of what he wrote there.
Perhaps we both should leave it up to him to clarify which MMOs he thinks are "high fantasy", which MMOs are "serious" and which ones give him "immersion". Hopefully he'll repost.
I think you are trying to rationalize Deadman´s personal view of gaming immersion too much.
It is his opinion and what he is looking for in a MMO-RPG, I agree with him in certain degree.
See, as an example, I do prefer when MMOs have their on names and occasions for holidays than simple christmas or eastern bunnies, I do prefer and it is more immersive TO ME the Norrath´s Frostfell than the pure christmas of some korean games. (by Korean games Im not bashing Aion)
Sound silly? Maybe, but it is all related to immersion and how you feel when you play in this alternate universe.
Eve and Battlefiels are not "serious" for me especially Battlefield, but Silent Hill2 with its moral and psychological aspects is a pretty serious game for me.
Serious go far beyond the "realistic" skin in a game, a lot of "realistc" FPS games as BF are too shallow to be taken as a serious setting.
MMOs need some sense of humor as we usually play them for much more time, but sometimes somethings are too much and ruin the immersion of some players, how can we judge what everyone should enjoy as immersive in a game? An this has nothing to do with your game x real life comparison.
As you said, you like certain amount of immersion and sometimes even the most absurd setting need to be cohesive with its own laws to keep "beliveable" even in the most unbeliveable situation.
I cant judge these Aion weapons, would need to play more and know more about the game itself
...
I figured since this was a MMO site, and we are talking about MMOs, that when he said "serious" he's referring to serious MMOs, not single player consoles or whatever other platforms. If that's the case, then we could use single player fantasy games that are just as serious. Of these MMOs, I take it he means a certain amount of believability. Again, ship based combat is pretty believable and the fact that if you get it blown up there, you lose quite a bit of goods and that is about as "serious" as you can get. I don't know anything more serious than that in a game world other than Permadeath.
But you mentioned Battlefield, we all know BF is not a MMO.
The way BF uses the WWII is a bit shallow, we cant talk much about it, but a lot of games and people turn WWII historical facts in some High Fantasy fiction where WWII was a good vs evil War (it doesnt happen in BF)... well, far from the truth.
I disagree with the argument serious is equal to realistic, a fantastic allegory but with deep thoughts and reflexions could be much more serious than a realistic but shallow fiction.
I'm don't think he specifically said he's looking for a MMO-RPG as you believe, but if that's the case, any fantasy game isn't really made for then in an MMO. Unless he's like, a strict roleplayer in something like LOTRO or SWG (which to me is "high fantasy") but again, I'll leave that up to his to clarify. I only went off of the three lines he posted, not really trying to see into it, but just going off of what he wrote there.
Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are pure High Fantasy works.
Age of Conan is one of the few "sword and magic" game based totally in a Low Fantasy setting, even in Everquest setting, Warhammer original setting, moral aspects and the old Good vs Evil is not so clear as in Lord of The Rings,(but clear enough to make them H.F.) so Lotro is without a doubt the most High Fantasy of all MMos.
Mythical creatures, elven people, and fantastic landscapes are not what will define a game/fiction/lore as High or Low Fantasy...
But I agree, we really dont know for sure what he ment...
Perhaps we both should leave it up to him to clarify which MMOs he thinks are "high fantasy", which MMOs are "serious" and which ones give him "immersion". Hopefully he'll repost.
Fair enough, I agree.
edit-I dont see LF better than HF or HF better than LF, both can be interesting and expressive...
Comments
my turn for "say what?"
i'm at a total loss as to how you derived whatever you did from my saying i had an ideal concept of the game in my imagination.
i am saying that i would like to imagine that they are going to deliver the game as close to my ideals as possible. that may be a pipe dream or it may happen to a degree that surprises me. i'll find out on day of release.
My point is how can you have an ideal concept of the game when it is not YOUR concept to begin with?
We both agree you can decide whether you like what you see or not and either move on or stay.
And in general a lot of people who speak of immersion mistake that for a Tolkien like world or something that is as close to it as possible, you can thank dungeons and dragons, but really true fantasy can be anything.
Immersion to me comes when the whole world an characters mesh well together and there are elements to pull you in like weather, animals running in streets and children, people of diverse ages diverse buildings and areas to explore. Everything else can be anything, the theme could be high fantasy a la Tolkien, or it could be alien fantasy, sci fi or post apocalyptic. Or a mesh of all of those, it can even be silly and campy as long as it's done well.
I've played Vanguard which is supposed to be very immersive and to a point it is, but then you cross that point and you find a dead world. I'll take a vibrant living world with silly weapons any day. Aion is not based on any existing template of fantasy it is it's own thing based on actual mythology, just like Tolkien did and many others besides.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
The huge swords are ok in the maga/Manhwa lore that Aion is going for, but the carrot and fish swords?
Did they hire Monty python for the weapon design or what?
This.
But seriously Realisim in a fantasy setting??? what are ya smoking!!. None of all the wierd things added in wow killed wow. infact people craved for these items they became very popular. I even had a rogue and whacked noobs with fish. its pure fun.
The fact is many games do add items like these for fun. It in no way kills the game. There is a huge majority who will enjoy these things. The games about people with wings. that can use magic, weapons bigger than they can phisicly carry and yet swing them like if they were feathers. Now tell me what difference does it make if they decide to add a damn fork to the mix. Its all fantasy.
Stop looking for reality where it does not exsist.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Oh yes the infamous toggle option. Other then a gore toggle, I feel very ambivalent about it. I'm all for choices and if they would decide to put one in it wouldn't change anything in my world. But what I find annoying is you start with one toggle and everytime something gets added to the game that some people don't like they yell toggle.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
Hey, that's my idea:P
Yes, I too think this would be the best solution for everyone, I'm gonna sugges this to certain ppl ,hopefully it'll get attention.
I can't believe the stink people are raising about this. . .
Just like everything else in the world, if you don't like it don't play it. It truly is very simple.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
was it? sorry i didn't see it but i've only skimmed lately. you can have full credit if someone comes asking who thought of it first. i will be quite content to just have the option.
and truly that is how it will work, in the end. however you get a "meh" for saying it's so simple. aside from pre-launch hype and speculation being the norm for nearly every aspect of every game, talking things out in forums is how things get done. some forums devs look at. other times, people will spread the comments and ideas from one forum to another, which could lead to one of those forums that devs do read. eventually if it was a concern shared by enough people, they would have to take notice. i mean, listening to large population groups your player-base (or would-be players in the case of pre-launch) = $$. let's say 10%, or even 5% of players felt that this would either be a complete deal-breaker or would cause them to lose interest after a very short period of time and cancel their subscription. the amount of money they could make by implementing a low-cost, low-maintenance fix could be immense. just think of how many people are playing the KR launch and then take 5% of that and multiply by a supposed monthly cost of $10-20, adjust numbers as you think is realistic but regardless it'd be hard to turn away from that kind of cash.
as for me, i'm just hoping lyankyj turns out to have some huge pull with NCsoft or specifically Aion devs.
The fork weapon would be great as a finishing combo. You perform the move with a macro saying "Stick a fork in him... he's done." Then the guy dies.
Epic funny.
"TO MICHAEL!"
was it? sorry i didn't see it but i've only skimmed lately. you can have full credit if someone comes asking who thought of it first. i will be quite content to just have the option.
Nah, you can have it, your english is better to further explain its purpose:P
I'm just glad others thought about that too and it seems there is quite a need for such options.
The problem with the toggle is that these silly weapons are SKINS, are they not? If you could toggle them off, the only way they might be able to code that is if they toggle all skins.
That is if the skin is actually on top of the original graphic if it replaces the graphic then they would have to make alternate appearances for these weapons. I don't see that ever happening.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
Either way, they just need to create a separate item category for event-kind of things and set toggle only to that particular category.
*runs off crying to the immersion doctor*
My brand new bloggity blog.
lol it looks interesting
I don't like them, but I think the toggle is an even worse idea. Some people go to a lot of trouble to get their look 'just right'. It may not be the look you like, but it's thier character. Putting on blinders and ignoring or filtering the intentional design choices is tantamount to censorship; sure, you're only censoring yourself, but the fact remains. If you don't like the fish sword, don't get one; feel free to groan to yourself if someone happens to smack you with one. Filtering out blood, sex, and profanity is one thing; that's a moral judgment call. But 'I don't want to see carrot swords, because it's silly and it's screwing up my real fantasy'? Come on.
Evil will always win, because Good is dumb.
...I really don't think there's anything wrong with them. In fact, I kind of like them! ^_^
They're funny and add a silly aspect to the game.
I hate high fantasy. But this is taking it to a higher level of hate.
But it doesn't look like a serious game so, I guess whatever. I would probably have enjoyed it if I weren't so concerned about the immersion factor when I play.
It is preferable not to travel with a dead man.
Serious is a matter of perspective, I'm sure there'll be plenty of people serious about leveling up their points or defending their turf carrots in hand or not.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
Why most people use the term "High Fantasy" in the wrong way in these forums?
The main difference between High and Low Fantasy is the moral aspect, the bounds between good and evil, not the amount of goofyness.
...
I understand this point well. I like a certain amount of "immersion:" in MMOs and like things to "make sense" and have a flow. But immersion is a total illusion anyways. You don't really think you are that person, or if your phone rings or you power disconnect, not very immersive. All MMOs are just glorified board games pretty much. The minute you turn your head away from your LCD screen or someone speaks to you, "immersion" is lost.
But this is a fantasy world where cartoons shoot fire and pull ice out of thin air, never eat or go to the bathroom and die then get up again in a few seconds unharmed. I certainly don't see why someone couldn't weild a giant fish or pair of carrots as deadly weapons in this environment given those parameters. I guess we would just have to figure out which size of vegetable is permissible to kill someone with, hehe.
Actually, since you CAN kill someone with a raw carrot in real life, the realism aspect of "No killing with vegetables" isn't totally true. I don't think there are any "serious" games based on your grading scale other than ones such as EVE or Battlefield, things were there are only humans in realistic settings. It's hard to go for "serious" when you are contemplating playing a humanoid female who has huge wings, will never age or die, and can fly anytime you wish while actually being a guy in real life.
"TO MICHAEL!"
The whole reality versus fantasy argument is silly. The fact is you can make any sword look however you want (it may not be battle worthy but will still kill you).
With that being said here are some pictures of real swords:
Hope it works.
Venge Sunsoar
What wrong with adding fun items to the game, these will most likely be less powerful than the real gear. And I wouldnt mind taking a few screens with guildys wearing these.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
I understand this point well. I like a certain amount of "immersion:" in MMOs and like things to "make sense" and have a flow. But immersion is a total illusion anyways. You don't really think you are that person, or if your phone rings or you power disconnect, not very immersive. All MMOs are just glorified board games pretty much. The minute you turn your head away from your LCD screen or someone speaks to you, "immersion" is lost.
But this is a fantasy world where cartoons shoot fire and pull ice out of thin air, never eat or go to the bathroom and die then get up again in a few seconds unharmed. I certainly don't see why someone couldn't weild a giant fish or pair of carrots as deadly weapons in this environment given those parameters. I guess we would just have to figure out which size of vegetable is permissible to kill someone with, hehe.
Actually, since you CAN kill someone with a raw carrot in real life, the realism aspect of "No killing with vegetables" isn't totally true. I don't think there are any "serious" games based on your grading scale other than ones such as EVE or Battlefield, things were there are only humans in realistic settings. It's hard to go for "serious" when you are contemplating playing a humanoid female who has huge wings, will never age or die, and can fly anytime you wish while actually being a guy in real life.
I think you are trying to rationalize Deadman´s personal view of gaming immersion too much.
It is his opinion and what he is looking for in a MMO-RPG, I agree with him in certain degree.
See, as an example, I do prefer when MMOs have their on names and occasions for holidays than simple christmas or eastern bunnies, I do prefer and it is more immersive TO ME the Norrath´s Frostfell than the pure christmas of some korean games. (by Korean games Im not bashing Aion)
Sound silly? Maybe, but it is all related to immersion and how you feel when you play in this alternate universe.
Eve and Battlefiels are not "serious" for me especially Battlefield, but Silent Hill2 with its moral and psychological aspects is a pretty serious game for me.
Serious go far beyond the "realistic" skin in a game, a lot of "realistc" FPS games as BF are too shallow to be taken as a serious setting.
MMOs need some sense of humor as we usually play them for much more time, but sometimes somethings are too much and ruin the immersion of some players, how can we judge what everyone should enjoy as immersive in a game? An this has nothing to do with your game x real life comparison.
As you said, you like certain amount of immersion and sometimes even the most absurd setting need to be cohesive with its own laws to keep "beliveable" even in the most unbeliveable situation.
I cant judge these Aion weapons, would need to play more and know more about the game itself
...
I figured since this was a MMO site, and we are talking about MMOs, that when he said "serious" he's referring to serious MMOs, not single player consoles or whatever other platforms. If that's the case, then we could use single player fantasy games that are just as serious. Of these MMOs, I take it he means a certain amount of believability. Again, ship based combat is pretty believable and the fact that if you get it blown up there, you lose quite a bit of goods and that is about as "serious" as you can get. I don't know anything more serious than that in a game world other than Permadeath.
I'm don't think he specifically said he's looking for a MMO-RPG as you believe, but if that's the case, any fantasy game isn't really made for then in an MMO. Unless he's like, a strict roleplayer in something like LOTRO or SWG (which to me is "high fantasy") but again, I'll leave that up to his to clarify. I only went off of the three lines he posted, not really trying to see into it, but just going off of what he wrote there.
Perhaps we both should leave it up to him to clarify which MMOs he thinks are "high fantasy", which MMOs are "serious" and which ones give him "immersion". Hopefully he'll repost.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I figured since this was a MMO site, and we are talking about MMOs, that when he said "serious" he's referring to serious MMOs, not single player consoles or whatever other platforms. If that's the case, then we could use single player fantasy games that are just as serious. Of these MMOs, I take it he means a certain amount of believability. Again, ship based combat is pretty believable and the fact that if you get it blown up there, you lose quite a bit of goods and that is about as "serious" as you can get. I don't know anything more serious than that in a game world other than Permadeath.
But you mentioned Battlefield, we all know BF is not a MMO.
The way BF uses the WWII is a bit shallow, we cant talk much about it, but a lot of games and people turn WWII historical facts in some High Fantasy fiction where WWII was a good vs evil War (it doesnt happen in BF)... well, far from the truth.
I disagree with the argument serious is equal to realistic, a fantastic allegory but with deep thoughts and reflexions could be much more serious than a realistic but shallow fiction.
I'm don't think he specifically said he's looking for a MMO-RPG as you believe, but if that's the case, any fantasy game isn't really made for then in an MMO. Unless he's like, a strict roleplayer in something like LOTRO or SWG (which to me is "high fantasy") but again, I'll leave that up to his to clarify. I only went off of the three lines he posted, not really trying to see into it, but just going off of what he wrote there.
Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are pure High Fantasy works.
Age of Conan is one of the few "sword and magic" game based totally in a Low Fantasy setting, even in Everquest setting, Warhammer original setting, moral aspects and the old Good vs Evil is not so clear as in Lord of The Rings,(but clear enough to make them H.F.) so Lotro is without a doubt the most High Fantasy of all MMos.
Mythical creatures, elven people, and fantastic landscapes are not what will define a game/fiction/lore as High or Low Fantasy...
But I agree, we really dont know for sure what he ment...
Perhaps we both should leave it up to him to clarify which MMOs he thinks are "high fantasy", which MMOs are "serious" and which ones give him "immersion". Hopefully he'll repost.
Fair enough, I agree.
edit-I dont see LF better than HF or HF better than LF, both can be interesting and expressive...