I just saw the gameplay footage through a link in the Darkfall forums (go figure), I have to say the FPS view seems like it going to actually work, and well. I was reminded of the game King's Field as I watched it, now I have to say I am very interested in applying for a beta spot. The way the hands move gives a real dynamic to the game in the scene where the player prayed, rose from the ground after being knocked from the horse, and made a deathblow on someone else. Sure you may not be able to look at your char from a vanity agnle (who knows though), but perhaps you can look down at yourself by angling the cam, and get a better view of your armor from shoulders to feet like you were the actual player. I wonder if wearing a helmet has some kind of effect on the view as well?
I did have a beef with how the torch was held in the vid though. It was centered in the screen and blocked quite a bit of the view, on top of burning my retinas - was a bit rough just in the trailer. I hope they end up making the model hold it off to the side, so that the ambient light still works and it doesn't crowd the view with the bright torch.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
First person view won't ruin the game at all for me. I can see some people not liking it and I understand how people think their options shoudn't be limited like that but FPS brings a whole new dimension to PvP that you can't get with the typical third person view. Maybe if the third person view was like Gears of War where is was set at a good angle viewing the world straight on and not seeing so much behind you. It adds real stealth to the game at least until hacks come into play.
FPV is a range fight affair, like a FPS game. Melee fighters with the very limited view are at huge disadvantage against rangers/casters. That`s why you can`t mix MMORPGs with FPS. I`m not buying the "immersion" excuse the devs gave for not putting a TPV option. Nobody is that clueless as to alienate a big group of players from their game especially when less restrictions = more popular game in this day and age. So it`s probably a technical issue. Kickazz graphics alla AoC and seamless world don`t mix well, it`s too demanding on your PC so that`s probably why this game is FPV only, to make it playable.
I'm looking forward to having an all fpv mmo. The reason is if there is the option of tpv, almost everyone will chose tp because it has obvious advantages, you can see everything to the side of you, above you. also being able to see someone coming at you from behind which can be a major annoyance when trying to sneak up on people.
I must admit to a bit of scepticism towards fpv in an mmorpg in general.
I like the potential it has in possibly increasing immersion, but I don't like to lose the overview that 3rd person view gives. After all, when I look at a monitor I lose all peripheral vision. Not being aware of a monster/hostile player right next to me because of tunnel vision can at least ruin my feel of realism.
I'm not sure how I feel about it right now. While I like first person shooters. I don't spend hours a day playing them. Mmorpgs I can spend 4-6 hours on weekends playing, and not sure if I like being in first person that long. I never feel immersed in my fps games like I do in my mmorpgs. I admit I am a little vain in the fact that I like looking at how my avatar looks like while playing. I will definately give this game a go though, and hopefully won't mind the first person view.
FPS aren't really designed to immerse the player into an atmosphere like MMOs should do. they are MMO role playing games after all.
have you tried Fallout3? I haven't had the pleasure of that, but i hear its a pretty good game.
Your right in the aspect that FPS games are not ment to be as immersed as an MMO. But I think the single player rpgs are. I could never play games like Morrowind or Oblivion in FPV for more than an hour. That is my fear. Now if the FPV would actually work like our eyes do in the real world, I would find no problem with it.
I just feel like I'm playing with a box on my head with a slot to see through. I don't feel immersed at all. But in 3rd person I do feel immersed. So this will be tough for me to play,
I have not played Fallout 3, and am not really interested in it. I'm not a big fan of games that have a pause in it so you can aim your shots. I have heard it is a good game though.
i understand the fear of tunnel vision but it didn't seem that bad. hopefully they can improve it and somehow widen the view a bit. i think if someone were to make a FPV with peripheral vision, the actual space you would use to look would be smaller to allow for the blurry edges.
however, FPV will just require you to look around more, think more, and force you to have a better awareness unlike if you are looking at everything 5-10 feet above your character.
so... how bout you buy a good mouse, dont get the mx518 its a pos and will break.
i've never had problems in a fps cause of limited peripheral.
Firstperson view is going to make this game imo. and a awesome mmo will be born that has FPV. darkfall already failed horribly so we're one step closer. might not be this, but bethesda is workin on somethin i hear.
^^^^^good point about the torch i didn't really think about. oblivion did the same thing i think.
The FPV is perfectly implemented in mortal online and I think it is going to work very well. Third person view was unrealistic to begin with and I dont know why more serious MMO's had it incorporated.
I am glad that immersion is important to the developers and that we will be looking through our players eyes.
It also helps in PvP because you have to be wary of your suroundings by looking around more. Which adds excitement and skill. This is going to be an epic MMO in my opinion and I am very much looking forward to more information coming out of the developers.
FPV is a range fight affair, like a FPS game. Melee fighters with the very limited view are at huge disadvantage against rangers/casters. That`s why you can`t mix MMORPGs with FPS. I`m not buying the "immersion" excuse the devs gave for not putting a TPV option. Nobody is that clueless as to alienate a big group of players from their game especially when less restrictions = more popular game in this day and age. So it`s probably a technical issue. Kickazz graphics alla AoC and seamless world don`t mix well, it`s too demanding on your PC so that`s probably why this game is FPV only, to make it playable.
Well, not necessarily.
I don't know in particular how the Dreamworld engine (AoC) handles assets and such... But the Unreal 3 engine was re-developed from the ground-up to handle massive streaming worlds inherently. I think this was in response to the number of MMOs using the Unreal 2 engine, retro-fitting a seamless world design into them; and I think it was a smart move. This is do-able *with* the level of detail Unreal Engine 3 is capable of.
Further, the way the Unreal engine handles models is that everything is an instance of a single model. So you load a model... say... a boulder.. into the map via the editor. That boulder will only exist once in memory. Every other copy of it will be an instance, no matter how it's scaled, rotated, etc... This helps the game keep as low a resource footprint as possible. And of course, the engine is only rendering what it has to... so with intelligent use of portals, anti-portals, LoD, and the like, the world can be quite detailed and still perform very well.
Also, I didn't see anything in the MO video that shows them really pushing the engine to its limits, which, for a MMO, is smart. Just because the power is *there* doesn't mean they have to use *everything*. There's a balance between eye-candy and performance.
You can see the trade-off if you look at a game like Bioshock, and then look at Unreal Tournament 3. Bioshock uses far more of the heavy-duty technologies (pixel shaders, etc) because it's a single-player game where the number of detail in view at any one time can be controlled by design. In a FPS, like UT3, though, you'll notice a lighter use of tech and/or very selective use of it. This is to make sure performance is always optimum no matter how many players and other effects are on screen at a time. They'd likely be leaning more toward a UT3 approach to tech usage in MO.
In short, the Unreal 3 engine is very capable of highly detailed streaming worlds.
I think AoC was limited by its own engine architecture.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Fortunately I am an accomplished (and quite gifted I might add) gamer and have the amazing talent to adapt to almost any gameplay situation, such as point and click to move or even, first person view.
Yes, I know, its rare to find someone with my talents, but what can I say, I'm one of the chosen ones.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Fortunately I am an accomplished (and quite gifted I might add) gamer and have the amazing talent to adapt to almost any gameplay situation, such as point and click to move or even, first person view. Yes, I know, its rare to find someone with my talents, but what can I say, I'm one of the chosen ones.
lol...
Thing is, many people could adapt to any new playstyle... If they actually *tried*. Most just see that it's different and freak out. Being a long-time FFXI player who could play the game equally well with a gamepad or keyboard only, I saw that *a lot*.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Fortunately I am an accomplished (and quite gifted I might add) gamer and have the amazing talent to adapt to almost any gameplay situation, such as point and click to move or even, first person view. Yes, I know, its rare to find someone with my talents, but what can I say, I'm one of the chosen ones.
lol...
Thing is, many people could adapt to any new playstyle... If they actually *tried*. Most just see that it's different and freak out. Being a long-time FFXI player who could play the game equally well with a gamepad or keyboard only, I saw that *a lot*.
Always a pleasure to see your posts, Kyleran. Can you curb some of your EVE gaming and get a blog going here? I would love to see your thoughts on stuff.
lol shamefully, i've not yet got round to playing gears yet.
as for FPV, whats the diff. people want what they want. IF its a cakewalk to give it to them and make more players happy, why not?
the point is - if they offer the choice almost no one will use it - in a PVP game there are certainly advantages to TPV, most specifically that 360 degree view and that panning camera
so keep it forced and keep it real
and i think those that are complaining about this forget that MO has been built from the ground up with the FPV in mind - this has not happened before as far as i know
i really hope they don't cave though that seems unlikely because the majority still either favor it or trust the devs to know what they are doing (that last is a weird concept i know)
Comments
I just saw the gameplay footage through a link in the Darkfall forums (go figure), I have to say the FPS view seems like it going to actually work, and well. I was reminded of the game King's Field as I watched it, now I have to say I am very interested in applying for a beta spot. The way the hands move gives a real dynamic to the game in the scene where the player prayed, rose from the ground after being knocked from the horse, and made a deathblow on someone else. Sure you may not be able to look at your char from a vanity agnle (who knows though), but perhaps you can look down at yourself by angling the cam, and get a better view of your armor from shoulders to feet like you were the actual player. I wonder if wearing a helmet has some kind of effect on the view as well?
I did have a beef with how the torch was held in the vid though. It was centered in the screen and blocked quite a bit of the view, on top of burning my retinas - was a bit rough just in the trailer. I hope they end up making the model hold it off to the side, so that the ambient light still works and it doesn't crowd the view with the bright torch.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
First person view won't ruin the game at all for me. I can see some people not liking it and I understand how people think their options shoudn't be limited like that but FPS brings a whole new dimension to PvP that you can't get with the typical third person view. Maybe if the third person view was like Gears of War where is was set at a good angle viewing the world straight on and not seeing so much behind you. It adds real stealth to the game at least until hacks come into play.
Make games you want to play.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RavikAztar
others need to learn from this mistake
I'm looking forward to having an all fpv mmo. The reason is if there is the option of tpv, almost everyone will chose tp because it has obvious advantages, you can see everything to the side of you, above you. also being able to see someone coming at you from behind which can be a major annoyance when trying to sneak up on people.
I must admit to a bit of scepticism towards fpv in an mmorpg in general.
I like the potential it has in possibly increasing immersion, but I don't like to lose the overview that 3rd person view gives. After all, when I look at a monitor I lose all peripheral vision. Not being aware of a monster/hostile player right next to me because of tunnel vision can at least ruin my feel of realism.
"nerf rock, paper is working as intended."
- Scissors.
Head Chop
FPS aren't really designed to immerse the player into an atmosphere like MMOs should do. they are MMO role playing games after all.
have you tried Fallout3? I haven't had the pleasure of that, but i hear its a pretty good game.
Your right in the aspect that FPS games are not ment to be as immersed as an MMO. But I think the single player rpgs are. I could never play games like Morrowind or Oblivion in FPV for more than an hour. That is my fear. Now if the FPV would actually work like our eyes do in the real world, I would find no problem with it.
I just feel like I'm playing with a box on my head with a slot to see through. I don't feel immersed at all. But in 3rd person I do feel immersed. So this will be tough for me to play,
I have not played Fallout 3, and am not really interested in it. I'm not a big fan of games that have a pause in it so you can aim your shots. I have heard it is a good game though.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
i understand the fear of tunnel vision but it didn't seem that bad. hopefully they can improve it and somehow widen the view a bit. i think if someone were to make a FPV with peripheral vision, the actual space you would use to look would be smaller to allow for the blurry edges.
however, FPV will just require you to look around more, think more, and force you to have a better awareness unlike if you are looking at everything 5-10 feet above your character.
so... how bout you buy a good mouse, dont get the mx518 its a pos and will break.
i've never had problems in a fps cause of limited peripheral.
Firstperson view is going to make this game imo. and a awesome mmo will be born that has FPV. darkfall already failed horribly so we're one step closer. might not be this, but bethesda is workin on somethin i hear.
^^^^^good point about the torch i didn't really think about. oblivion did the same thing i think.
The FPV is perfectly implemented in mortal online and I think it is going to work very well. Third person view was unrealistic to begin with and I dont know why more serious MMO's had it incorporated.
I am glad that immersion is important to the developers and that we will be looking through our players eyes.
It also helps in PvP because you have to be wary of your suroundings by looking around more. Which adds excitement and skill. This is going to be an epic MMO in my opinion and I am very much looking forward to more information coming out of the developers.
But to make my point. I LOVE FPV!
Well, not necessarily.
I don't know in particular how the Dreamworld engine (AoC) handles assets and such... But the Unreal 3 engine was re-developed from the ground-up to handle massive streaming worlds inherently. I think this was in response to the number of MMOs using the Unreal 2 engine, retro-fitting a seamless world design into them; and I think it was a smart move. This is do-able *with* the level of detail Unreal Engine 3 is capable of.
Further, the way the Unreal engine handles models is that everything is an instance of a single model. So you load a model... say... a boulder.. into the map via the editor. That boulder will only exist once in memory. Every other copy of it will be an instance, no matter how it's scaled, rotated, etc... This helps the game keep as low a resource footprint as possible. And of course, the engine is only rendering what it has to... so with intelligent use of portals, anti-portals, LoD, and the like, the world can be quite detailed and still perform very well.
Also, I didn't see anything in the MO video that shows them really pushing the engine to its limits, which, for a MMO, is smart. Just because the power is *there* doesn't mean they have to use *everything*. There's a balance between eye-candy and performance.
You can see the trade-off if you look at a game like Bioshock, and then look at Unreal Tournament 3. Bioshock uses far more of the heavy-duty technologies (pixel shaders, etc) because it's a single-player game where the number of detail in view at any one time can be controlled by design. In a FPS, like UT3, though, you'll notice a lighter use of tech and/or very selective use of it. This is to make sure performance is always optimum no matter how many players and other effects are on screen at a time. They'd likely be leaning more toward a UT3 approach to tech usage in MO.
In short, the Unreal 3 engine is very capable of highly detailed streaming worlds.
I think AoC was limited by its own engine architecture.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Fortunately I am an accomplished (and quite gifted I might add) gamer and have the amazing talent to adapt to almost any gameplay situation, such as point and click to move or even, first person view.
Yes, I know, its rare to find someone with my talents, but what can I say, I'm one of the chosen ones.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
lol...
Thing is, many people could adapt to any new playstyle... If they actually *tried*. Most just see that it's different and freak out. Being a long-time FFXI player who could play the game equally well with a gamepad or keyboard only, I saw that *a lot*.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
ranged have an advantage over melee'rs? haha i doubt it.
of course melee'rs will probably have more speed, health, etc
a first person mmorpg will be teh win
lol...
Thing is, many people could adapt to any new playstyle... If they actually *tried*. Most just see that it's different and freak out. Being a long-time FFXI player who could play the game equally well with a gamepad or keyboard only, I saw that *a lot*.
Always a pleasure to see your posts, Kyleran. Can you curb some of your EVE gaming and get a blog going here? I would love to see your thoughts on stuff.
the point is - if they offer the choice almost no one will use it - in a PVP game there are certainly advantages to TPV, most specifically that 360 degree view and that panning camera
so keep it forced and keep it real
and i think those that are complaining about this forget that MO has been built from the ground up with the FPV in mind - this has not happened before as far as i know
i really hope they don't cave though that seems unlikely because the majority still either favor it or trust the devs to know what they are doing (that last is a weird concept i know)